The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Kyle Shanahan, Antonio Pierce, Lamar Jackson

Episode Date: December 27, 2023

In this hour of The Herd, Colin shares a discovery about the San Francisco 49ers in the 4th quarter under the leadership of Kyle Shanahan. Also, Super Bowl champion and FOX Sports NFL analyst James Jones stops by to discuss the Raiders under interim coach Antonio Pierce, how Baltimore quarterback Lamar Jackson dismantled San Francisco, and more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Breaking news one hour ago, almost of the minute. Sean Payton, Denver Broncos head coach, is benching Russell Wilson for the final two games of this season. Signaling, they're probably going to move off. which would not be shocking despite his massive contract. Remember, does Sean Watson's deal in Cleveland fully guaranteed? That's not the Russell Wilson deal. The reason they're benching it is that because they already owe him

$39 million guaranteed on the books next year. He can get an additional $37 million if he didn't pass a physical in March, so they're not taking any chances. This is the sign, the signal Sean Payton and Russell Wilson, who have had their conflicts, mostly Sean to Russ. This isn't going to work. So we did say, J. Mack, it was surprising before the season that the Raiders paid a large backup quarterback fee contract to Jarrett Stidham.

My take is, not that I have any insider knowledge, that he had seen film, he had seen limitations, and Russ and Sean were never going to be some Pataco personalities or stylistically, and that Sean went into this thing knowing this is a difficult, quarterback for my system, a lot of this stuff's not going to work. And I said this a couple of weeks ago when you had this blow up, we're showing our TV audience, I said on the air, if you and your wife are fighting in public, what the hell's like the car ride home? Like, what are you guys like in your house? If you're fighting at a Christmas party, when I see this right here, when I see these guys debating, they all know it's a, you know, national TV game, there's issues that go deeper. And you can

say stuff like we get along. You can get along at work and not like somebody or respect somebody, but you can get along at work. And I think they get along mostly at work. But I don't think their personalities fit. And I don't think Sean's offense. There's been a lot of signs on this

since the offseason. There's been the Stidham signing. We both went, wow. Why would you pay that for a backup? I think at the time we also thought maybe it was a wake-up call to Russ. Hey, I know this was your show last year. You had your parking space in your office and all the...

We got another quarterback to come in and put some pressure on Russ, maybe raise his level. And he did play better this year than last year. No question about that, right? No, he's a better coach, yeah. So it's... Is anybody surprised? I mean, are any of you watching going,

whoa, I didn't see this coming? I thought about three weeks ago. And again, the Internet is fascinated with stuff said years ago by everybody. New information. About four weeks ago, three weeks ago, I looked at this and I thought there's a chance it's going to work. And then new information came out. They've had back-to-back games where it's regressed. It's just like Will Levis. One day looks good. One day looks like a rookie. One day is good. One drive he's bad. Then he has a blow up. You know, it's like the reality is new information. I'm a doctor. New information. I use new medicine. I'm a pilot. New information. I change the course of the plane. The last couple of weeks, it's gotten uglier. more missed open receivers. I think it was more hopeful a month ago. But I think the reality is not shocking.

These two Peyton and Ross just don't fit. Well, there was a lot of pressure on him to deliver. He came up short against Houston. You remember that with, I think, three turnovers, including in the red zone. And then this Patriots game just brutal. It was bad. Kind of over. Yeah.

So I want you to think about this. So we watched Brock Purdy. And something now can be said. he's not nearly the same quarterback playing from behind. So can we all agree he's not Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes? We good there? Or is that hurt your feelings? We good with that?

He's not Brady and Mahomes? Okay. So that's been to establish. You're not mad at me. Okay. The question, however, gets a little fuzzier. Are the Niners a good come from behind team? Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco is 0-138, trailing by 8 plus in the fourth quarter.

He's never won a game. Every other NFL team has. And San Francisco with that talent, hasn't? Since 2017, 0-138. That's the number I was given this morning. No wins trailing by 8 in the fourth quarter. So every head coach, even the Legends, has a hole. Shanahan's hole? We've noted this before. He is tied to that play sheet. He is tied to his scheme.

He's pretty rigid on how he goes into a game wanting to make stuff look. How do you solve it? Well, let me give you a couple of examples. Andy Reed had a clock management issue with B quarterbacks. those all seem to disappear when he got Patrick Mahomes. Bill Belichick has struggled forever to draft and develop offensive players. You didn't really notice with Tom Brady. How do you make Owen 38 trailing in the fourth quarter disappear? Brady, Mahomes, special quarterbacks. They change the temperature in the room.

They change the data. They change the playbook. They change the stats. If you want to win Super Bowls, you've got to be able to play from behind. It's how Mahomes won a couple early. It's how Brady won, several, including Atlanta. Great quarterbacks change the playbook. One of the reasons Shanahan is so damn tied to it, deep down,

he didn't have that guy. Do you have to get that guy to win a Super Bowl? I'd argue yes. I would argue that. could be proven wrong February 11th, but that's what it feels like to me. And with that, we bring in on a day of breaking news.

Russell Wilson benched with the Denver Broncos, James Jones, Super Bowl champ, part of the Raiders broadcast team. Good to see you as always. Congratulations. All right, so let's start with the Russell Wilson stuff. So we had said during the off-season, I remember the day the Broncos signed Jared Stidham to a pretty healthy backup quarterback number.

And I was like, A, I thought the Raiders liked him, but they didn't want to get into a bidding war. And the number was pretty tasty. Was that a sign that things may not be great with Russ and Peyton? I don't think it was a sign. I truly believe Peyton took this job knowing that Russell Wilson was there. Knowing that, hey, with what I do, with how I develop quarterbacks, I can get Russell Wilson playing at a high level in my system.

He was working here. It's not like he was a defensive coordinator, and it's like, oh, my opportunity arose. They don't got no quarterback, but I'm going to take the job. Like, you chose this spot. And I truly believe he does not choose this spot if he doesn't have a capable quarterback. He's trying to chase championships and Super Bowl.

So I think he took this job for Russell Wilson. Yes, Russell Wilson did play bad last year. So I want to get in a guy who I do know as a capable. backup to go down here and help me win some games if something happens to Russell Wilson. And it just so happened that Russell Wilson, especially lately, has been playing bad football. And it's the decision they came with. But I think he took this job knowing that Russell Wilson was there to try to get Russell Wilson right. Okay.

So we talked about the market. It's, you know, about a month ago, J.MAC said on the air, he said, Justin Fields has a 10-team market. And I laughed at him. And then he started naming teams. And I'm like, well, they would be interested. Yeah. Well, I think that Atlanta, Washington, and he probably has a six or 17 market. Especially the way he's been playing lately.

There's a market. My question is, Russell's expensive. You've seen the best of him, unlike Justin Fields, where there's cheap and there's growth. Is there much of a market for him? I mean, there's a market. Yes. I mean, there's always a market for quarterbacks that accomplish what Russell Wilson has accomplished. Because it's always going to be that one organization, that one team that's like, hey,

You know what I mean? Maybe he might get back to the old Russ with us. Who knows? And GMs and coaches on the hot seat. Yes, you're really willing to take that chance. The only scary thing is the price. You know what I'm saying? That's the only scary team with the price.

But you can't tell me three or four teams wouldn't want Russell Wilson. And I think that's the mindset of the Denver Broncos, right? Let's sit him because it's going to be three or four teams that might want to come and trade for Russell Wilson. Well, let's pivot to the Raiders. So it's interesting. I know Antonio Pearson, I like. him. One of the dangers of firing a coach mid-season is you get the interim coach bounce. Yeah. But he's coached in the NFL two years. Yeah. Brandon Staley, four, and that wasn't enough.

They haven't completed passes last week in three quarters and haven't scored a touchdown in two of three games. I can like the guy in the story, but think to myself, 12 of the 14 playoff teams have an offensive coach, and that's where the league's pivoting to. You're in that Raiders organization. I'm not doubting any of it. Know him, like him? a real guy's guy. You'll meet nobody that doesn't like Antonio. He's a dude. If you went out, do a UFC fighter a game with him? You'd love it.

But that doesn't mean he's the right fit. Are the Raiders kind of in a situation where the locker room will turn on the owner if they don't give him the job? I think they'll turn on the owner if Antonio Pierce don't get this job. I think Antonio Pierce is the guy for this job. And the main reason why I say that is because

the mindset of this football team, right? Usually, I've been a part of some interim head coach. It lasts for a week, two weeks. Dennis Allen when I was at the Raiders got fired. Coach Barrano came in. He buried the football, rest in peace. Tony's role. Yeah, he buried the football.

And we went out there and we won a couple games, right? Playing with a whole different energy. But eventually it wore off a little bit. You don't see that with this team, right? You see the guys responding to Antonio Pierce. You see the way the team is playing out there. You know what I mean? Just the energy, the effort, the passion, the mindset,

the team that this is playing with. Like nobody could tell me when the Raiders scored those two defensive touchdowns that the Chiefs wasn't going to come back in that game because that's what the Chiefs have done to the Raiders. That's what the Raiders have done in the past is, hey, you make a couple of plays and then you give up a game.

Since Antonio Pierce has been there, this has been a different mindset for the Raiders team. And one thing I know about Antonio Pierce because I coach Antonio Pierce's sons in Arizona. He plays on my younger son team and one of them plays on my older son's team. One thing I know about him is he needs, He knows what he needs. So when you're saying the offensive side of the ball,

he's been in college, he's been in high school. This dude knows how to build a team and knows what it takes and knows the players that he needs. So I truly believe deep down in my heart, Antonio Pierce is the guy for this job to take the Raiders to where they are trying to go. And you got a guy that these players love that they are going to fight for day in and day out.

I think Antonio Pierce is the guy. And it's all about, you know, Emmanuel Atro says this all the time. it's all about doing your part on your side of the ball. Since he has got there, and I know Patrick Graham is calling the plays, but this defense has been playing lights out. It's very physical. Yeah, and you have to start somewhere.

You know what I mean? And that defense is he's going to get some more players on that defense as well, but I think Antonio Pierce is the guy for this job. He's going to hire a good O.C. Yeah. If I was the GM, Mark, I would hire our owner. All right. So I got into this discussion.

is that the MVP race, and I don't like this. I guess when I was a kid, a little boy, I collected baseball cards. But since then, I'm not really a stats guy. I watch the games. I watch Jay Mack and I sit in front of TVs all the time. It's an unhealthy lifestyle, right? You sit and watch TV. And I watch players who are influential.

And I'll give you the player I talked about earlier. How many sacks is Aaron Donald gotten teammates for 12 years? Big time. Dude, the Rams have two third round rookie defensive linemen. Everybody's like, they're great. And I'm like, they get singular block. No doubt. Aaron Donald has been the most influential defensive player since L.T.

Or Reggie White. No question. He gets everybody else sack. Remember how good Vaughn Miller was playing with him for an hour? Played against him. He won that good in Buffalo. Right? So I watched Lamar.

I don't care about stats. How come their run game is number one and they're missing old lineman? They're on Gus Edwards. I watched that game, and my takeaway on that, game, all those pros. San Francisco was afraid of Lamar. No question about it. Afraid of him.

I showed on Speak with the Speak family yesterday, I showed some plays of Lamar Jackson. If you watch that San Francisco 49ers team, you have Nick Bosa, you have Chase Young, Fred Warner, dudes that are making a lot of money. They were not even rushing Lamar.

You are the highest paid defensive player in football. And the game plan is for you to stand back there and try to read and catch Lamar? Like that, but that's the Lamar Jackson effect. That ain't no stats. That's what Lamar Jackson brings to the football field and the fear that he puts in these players. And the couple times they did rush, there he goes. You know, and he's out of there and he's making plays with his legs. But he had all day to throw the ball and the defensive lineman was not rushing.

And it was a couple plays to where they'll just. you two rush and you two sit back you know and Lamar Jackson is so good he's so talented I mean we've all seen the growth the way he's throwing the ball inside and outside the pocket but Lamar Jackson is a different breed and when you talk MVP you talk about a player that can make everybody around them better look at this watch this Fred Warner's 54 best linebacker in football watch this and Lamar points out of too got you Warner is it within four And Fred Warner is a top 10 linebacker in the last decade. Yep.

And by the way, watch this throw. Watch this sidearm throw. Watch this. You've got to be kidding me. Yeah. And he makes it makes the game look so easy. Easy. Is he one in half speed?

Lamar Jackson effect is real. And if he wanted to have 20 rushing touchdowns, when they get in there in the red zone, he would have 20 rushing touchdown. But you know what they're doing? They're handing it off to Gus Edwards, and he has 12, 11 Russian touchdowns. The other running backs have three or four.

So Lamar Jackson is the MVP. of the league right now. He's making it look so easy. I know a lot of people want to go to stats, you know, with what Josh Allen's doing and Purdy and those guys are doing. But when you watch the tape, Lamar Jackson is the MVP. And Kishon Johnson's on

the show before us. Kishon Johnson in 11 years in the league and I may be off on the number at 16 quarterbacks. Okay, for you stat nerds. Yeah. What if he had

Peyton Manning and just went out left like Harrison and only had to line up on one side. He had 16 quarterbacks, I think, in 11 years. I read this years ago. You don't think Kishan's career would be different. That's why when I see these young players go to these dysfunctional organizations, it's like the media is obsessed with stats. Aaron Donald has made two third-round-ram draft picks on the defensive line

looks sensational, and they're good players. Aaron still gets triple teamed on place. No question. No question. I mean, ask in your career, was there ever a player that you thought to yourself, you just knew he was a dog, you hated when you had to play him, but maybe he didn't have all the picks. Yeah. Derell Revis.

Derell Revis was one of those guys to where not going to wow, you with a bunch of numbers, but you're not throwing at him. You know, so his numbers are going to be down, and you hate it playing him because even the mindset of the quarterback was like, I'm not trying, Revis. Jay, I know you good. You know, Jordy, I know you may be good,

but Revis on you. So why would I even go over there? I'll just go over here. You know, and so stats wise and numbers. Yes, stats wise and numbers, he's not going to have a bunch of picks because you're not even trying them. You know, it's the Dion Sanders effect as well.

You're not even going over there trying them. You know that side of the field. It's shut down. It's the same thing with receivers. I've seen Calvin Johnson get treated like a gunner. with safety help over the top. Who gets viced at the line of scrimmage on offense? This is an offensive play.

And you got two pro guys press coverage on you with safety help over the top. And the other guy might get a couple more yards than you in that game. That don't mean you better than Calvin. That is the Calvin Johnson effect. And same thing with a lot of the star receivers. I've seen Devonte Adams get double-teamed

and you see a lot of other players eating. That's the superstar effect. So the numbers may not be up there with the elite guys, but the effect on the football field of the game, to me, that is what screams MVP. And that's what Lamar's bringing even without having the numbers with the top guys. By the way, just a minute on this. So J-Mack is not an Eagles guy.

And I am an Eagles guy. Last year, they're 14 and 3 and faced much weaker quarterback. This year they're going to finish 13 to 4. And my takeaway is, all guys have a friend. when fit hits the shan your life your girlfriend throws you out of the apartment somebody breaks up with you

you get fired there's the guy you call the Eagles are the guy you call it's going to get to January with that old line and Jalen hurts and that toughness and that D line and you're going to go yeah Philadelphia is good

he thinks he hasn't bought this team all year so I always felt the same in the NFL when the big game like Buffalo now, suddenly everybody's like, a buffalo's good. Yeah. Buffalo's fine. Your take on the Eagles. Should we be concerned that it never looks pretty? Yeah.

I will give you an air-knuckle swipe over there because I agree with you, my dog. This ain't changing. I truly believe that it is going to be one and done for Philadelphia in the playoffs. And the reason why I say that is the year we won a Super Bowl 2010 season, we had to win our last two games to get in. We were 10 and 6. Six seed, went on to win the Super Bowl. But at the end of the season,

we started playing the tight football that we needed to start playing. And we were like, oh, my goodness, when we get into playoffs, it is over for people. I don't care if it's in the snow. I don't care if it's in the dome. You knew it.

We knew it. It is over for people. The next season, we were 15 and 1, and we all knew we ain't playing our best football. You knew it. And we had false confidence going to, I would say that, we had false confidence going into the playoffs because you're still finding ways to win.

So you're like, oh, we'll find. But we knew, and we were talking, just like the Philadelphia Eagles were talking after every game. Hey, we won, but we ain't playing our best. But what's our identity? And first round of the playoffs, the Giants came in there and said, this is your identity.

Pack up and go home. And it finally caught us. And that is what I see with the Philadelphia Eagles. All season long, they have not played their best football and it's coming out of their mouth. And then last week when you watched the game when the Giants were coming back,

you have coaches chirping at each other, players chirping at each other, right? What's the identity? Are we going to run it? Are we going to let Jalen Hertz throw it? We're not getting after the passer. That's not, none of this stuff is changing overnight. And that's why these players keep coming out

saying we got to play better, we got to play better, we got to play better. That's you this season. That is you. And it's going to catch up. to you, especially in the playoffs when you got to play good team after good team after good team after good team. I think they won and done. Great story. And they wanted to. I remember that year you got hot, Atlanta. Beat them down too. Beat them down. Yeah, beat them down. And then next year you're 15 and 1 and you

knew. And we knew locker room the whole time. It was so crazy. Like usually after you lose a playoff game and you know your season's over, like you got some crying, you got some body language. It's like, dang, man, we got to start this thing. We walked in that locker room, like, it got us. You know what I mean? Like, everybody kind of felt like, man, like, you knew. Like, we deserve this kind of.

Like, we ain't been playing our best. Like, they got us. Good seeing you, buddy. Hate that you and J-Mack agree. Can we, don't put this a segment in the archives, unless Philadelphia. Yeah, well. I have a great parlay for you this weekend. Thanks to Draft King Sportsbook.

New users use the coat heard, H-E-R-D. That's me when you download the The app takes about a minute. Now for my parlay pick of the week via Draft King Sportsbook. Cowboys at home minus six against Detroit. I like Detroit, but they're hot and cold. Never as good on the road.

Cowboys have to get good and get right. I'll take them to win by a touchdown. Steelers plus three and a half at Seattle. Let's be honest about the Seahawks. They've been outplayed and won the last two weeks. I'll take the hook at three and a half Pittsburgh. Broncos minus five hosting the Chargers. Listen, it's the season.

Russell Wilson may get moved out of town. If he plays poorly again, I get a coaching and a quarterback edge at home, Broncos minus 5. If you want to take the herd parlay, check out Draft King Sportsbook. New users, the code is heard when you download the app. 21 plus in most eligible states, but age varies by jurisdiction. Eligibility restrictions apply. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler.

In New York. Call 8778-8 Hope & Why or text Hope & Y 467-369. See show notes for full D. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put it in.

on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brain. a new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Man, we got a lot of stuff going on today. Jamack with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. We had that breaking news that Russell Wilson's been benched. You saw it coming yesterday when some of the numbers.

came out for what they will owe him if he's injured. Here's the crazy part, Colin. Before the 2022 season, Denver gave up this for Russell Wilson. Two first round picks, two second round picks, a fifth, and three players. I mean, it is a massive haul for Russell Wilson. He went 11 and 19 in Denver. Now, we could toss out the Hackett year. But the rest of the stats have been pedestrian, but much better this year.

Obviously, the jackals online who don't like Russell Wilson to begin with, are now calling this one of the worst trades in NFL history. You know what? Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Who cares? You either are somebody that solves issues or wants to extend them and talk about them. Who cares?

You were right. You hated the move. Who cares? You've got to solve this thing. This matters. Now, if Seattle, which got a bunch of the players in the picks, if they were able to build a dynasty and then the next few years turn it into Super Bowl victory, then it's like, wow, this was a horrible trade. But they aren't there. They might make the playoffs this year. We'll see.

Obviously, a bad deal, but I'm just going to go back to this. I don't think Russ is totally cooked the way Matt Ryan is like done. No, no, no, no. There's a world where I think he can have success again in the league next season with the team. I just don't know if it's, you know, Atlanta. What do you give up for him? There's several teams. Where it gets interesting is like, okay, if you're Atlanta,

would you rather have Justin Fields or Russell Wilson? Because Justin Fields is probably going to cost like a second round pick. Well, Justin Fields is going into his prime. He's athletic and inexpensive. So that's more attractive to me. And I know that sounds ridiculous because Russell's better than Justin Fields now. But you have to consider everything. You have to consider the price, the age, the injury history.

The coach. You have to consider everything. So Justin Fields, to me, if I'm Atlanta, my offensive players are young. Generationally, he fits with my offensive players. I've said this about Jordan Love. Jordan's a better fit in Green Bay now than Aaron. Aaron's the better player. But Jordan generationally, same music, same interest, same age.

He can grow with all these kid receivers and tight ends in Green Bay. Aaron's, you know, it'd be like asking me if my whole staff was 23 years old. It probably wouldn't feel the same as it does having 30, 40-year-old people. Let me drill down on Minnesota for a sec. So they have a lot of pieces in place to be a real contender. Like with Kirk Cous, if Kirk Couss is healthy, this might be an 11-win team. Why go from expensive to expensive quarterback? Well, Kirk Cousins is done.

He's moving on and coming off the Achilles. You can try to draft someone like 15 to 20, which is where they'll be drafted, so you're getting like the fourth best quarterback? No. So what are you doing? Like Russell Wilson could become attractive to Minnesota. Think about this, though. Is this at least something you think about?

So if you had to just take, let's say you're a brilliant screenwriter in Hollywood and great Oscar Golden Globe and all of a sudden you get a difficult actor and your movie bombs. Are you going to blame the actor or the screenwriter? You're going to look at the actor and go, well, the screenwriter keep to, so when you have Pete Carroll and Sean Payton that have said, this doesn't work, Russ. the narrative in the league is probably it's a little bit of a Russ issue because Seattle's going to make the playoffs it looks like again without Russ and Denver

Sean Payton's brilliance got Russ to be about as good as Russ could Sean Peyton won with Tayson Hill Teddy Bridgewater Drew Breeze he can't win with Russ so I mean again what's the overarching narrative

Pete Carroll's going to get to the playoffs for the second time with Drew Locke and John. Gino Smith. So it would be one thing if Seattle tanked and be like, boy, Russell was missed. But Seattle's relative success is not good for Russell. Okay, the counter to that would be Baker Mayfield is thriving with a defensive coach. He was with Stefansky. Oh, we got to move off this guy. Then he was with Carolina for a minute. Then the Rams. And it's like, Baker's watch.

It's over. Nobody wants him. He goes to Tampa. And Tampa's going to maybe make the playoffs. This is an interesting because I don't think Russell's going to win a great. division with Mahomes in it and Herbert with a real coach. But if you sent him to the AFC South or the NFC South and Baker Mayfield is there and then you're the quarterback. And then you're the quarterback. You know what I mean? So I think New Orleans may be a situation, though they'd have to move out. Derek Carr. I think Russell can succeed, but where he goes matters.

Yes. Now that's why I keep... The division. I'm sorry. You look at Minnesota, Colin. I know you like golf, we'll see what happens with Ben Johnson. Jordan Love, hit and miss. Chicago's going to have a number one pick. Like, that division is in play. And I'm telling you, you stack rosters. Minnesota is a pretty damn good roster. They got Justin Jefferson, Addison, they got dudes.

I don't think it's like also Kirk Cousins is considered a great religious conviction, a good guy. He's, you know, he's kind of like dad quarterback. And I think he and Russell share some similarities where they're considered adults, grown-ups, some limitations perhaps, but can be good people, married, family. By that logic, does it rule out Washington where he's not beating Dallas? He's not beating the Eagles. I don't know. I'm arguing the Minnesota thing is that they really like Kirk Cousins there, and Kirk Cousins hasn't won the big game. Would they be willing? What's the pressure in Minnesota?

Not much. The pressure in Denver with Peyton is. get this stuff. We got to go against Mahomes twice a year and Herbert twice a year. Get it going, Russ. But isn't it over in Minnesota? Like, they could have, they could have had a deal with him. He didn't want one. He played on a lame duck here. No, they're moving off Kurt. And he got hurt, right. So Kirk's out the door. Russ and I don't know. I'm curious what Vikings fans think. Anyways, let's go on to next story. Hey, how about this one? This just popped in the last 30 minutes. The Green Bay Packers have suspended Jaiir Alexander for one game for conduct, detrimental to the team. The move comes after Alexander went out on the field for the coin toss,

despite not being named a captain and nearly cost his team of possession by saying they wanted to start on defense instead of defer to the second half. You can't do that. What? I don't, I've never heard of that happening in NFL history. You can't. You're not a captain. You're just going out and saying nonsense. You got to grow up. Got be a grown up. These are professional businesses can't do that. I think we'll have to look at the contract, but that's the kind of thing where it's like, you don't bounce back from. We're done with you, bud. You're out the door. He was awesome like two years ago. Remember how good this guy was?

Oh, he's very talented player. I've never heard of anything this other. That defense, though, right now today, is that the worst defense in the league? This moment, they are atrocious. I mean, Bryce Young just embarrassed them in the second half. By the way, I noticed you didn't mention that Bryce Young had some dimes. Yeah, down three scores. He was just chucking and ducking the entire second half at home against a

awful secondary. I'm just curious, if you are going out for the coin toss, you played high level of college, sorry, high school football. No, I didn't. So you go out for the coin toss. You know you're a captain. A non-captain just runs out. Are you like, bro, what do you do? What are you doing out here? And then starts telling the officials what you want? He might have some issues going on. Like, that's really bad. Yeah, it's not great. Not great. Lafleur loose in the locker room. Final story, Michael Parsons expressed his unhappiness with the officiating after the Dallas lost to Miami Sunday. This is a crazy stat.

I hadn't seen this. Micah Parsons has not drawn a holding penalty in 38 straight quarters. And during Jerry Jones' weekly radio interview, Jerry stood up for Michael Parsons. They won't call a holding penalty within a certain range of holding. usually if they don't think the player would have gotten to the quarterback to begin with. That doesn't work for Parsons because he's about to get there almost all the time. And he does so much finishing. And so anything that just limits him should be a hole.

All right. I'm looking closely at that. Colin, I was on the dolphins. But it didn't look like the linemen were grabbing him. They had their hand up. Right. That's not holding, is it? Like, what is Jerry doing here?

Well, just defending his guy? Mike is great, so let's establish that. And I don't want to get, I thought the officiating in this game, and many games this year, has been dubious. And I'm not blame the official guy. Yeah. You tend to lean in that direction more than I. I'm not blaming the official guy, but man, the Cowboys got jobbed. That was, I would say there is reason.

Now, remember, every week. Head coach is called the league office and they file complaints. So I guarantee you this is something Dallas every week you can file a complaint with the league and you talk to the league office. I think Dallas has an argument on their side that, hey, we got one of the great top five pass rushers. Everybody else in the NFL gets the holding. We don't. I think it's a reasonable argument by chair. They didn't argue that against Buffalo who schemed around Micah Parsons pretty damn well.

Michael Parsons ain't the defense. Look out. on Micah. Well, clearly, run the football. He's not coming off the edge destroying you. If I'm a Detroit Lions offensive linemen, I'm just waiting for that flag. Can you bet on it? I guarantee you there's a flag in the first quarter. This reminds me of Phil Jackson. Remember he would work the officials for Shaq? Because he knew Shaq was going to get hammered. He'd worked them, worked them, worked them, and then they'd get the calls. J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

By the way, I think it's the worst. I went over the lines again this morning. It is a tough week. It is tough. And I've been handing out money to America for a month and a half. I went a couple of the lines that I kind of liked. I like Denver. Now Russell Wilson's not starting.

That was one of the lines I liked. And I'm like, all right, what are we doing? Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hi, this is Jay Glazer, and you may know me for the world of football or fighting or even shows like HBO's ballers. What you don't know is for my entire life, I have lived in something I refer to as the gray, depression, anxiety. So now I'm coming out with a new podcast, Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer with Jay Glazer. Where each week, while we talk about mental health, I hope to describe it. Give it words.

Listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

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Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and any. at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple,

podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Tonight, we got a great college bowl game on tap as the 15th ranked Louisville Cardinals look to cap off a stellar season when they take on the USC Trojans, the direct TV holiday bowl tonight at 730 Eastern on five. I bet you less than 500 FC fans have gotten in their car to travel to that game. Well, the line was seven and a half. It's down to six and a half, so USC money. I got it at seven. Go Trojans. Fight on, as they like to say. All right.

So, Lakers are struggling. And what are they willing to give up to upgrade their roster? They need to be a more athletic, twitchier, another wing score defender. So DeJante Murray plays for Atlanta. He used to play for the Spurs. They moved off him. And now Atlanta apparently is willing to move off him. He averages 20 a game.

So first of all, 45 guys in the NBA, Murray's at the bottom, average 20 a game. Nobody defends. You can get 20 a game much easier than years ago when you were getting grabbed and pulled and knocked around. So 45 guys in this league scored 20 a game. This would also be the second team in three years moving off to Jante Murray. Quinn Snyder is a good coach. Why would he move off him? So the Lakers would be the third team in three years for DeJante Murray.

I don't want to hear how talented he is. He's another kid to get a bucket. But let me ask you something. He's another kid that can get a bucket that LeBron will have to teach how to play winning basketball. And this is one of my problems with the Lakers. Once again, the Lakers, it's all on LeBron's shoulders. Let's hire Darvinham, a defensive coach who's never been a head coach. LeBron will make it work.

Let's go get young and soft, injury-prone Anthony Davis. Well, with LeBron, LeBron will make it work. He did. Let's bring in Bounce Around the League guy, DeAngelo Russell. LeBron will make it work. He's tried. Let's go with Rui Hachamora. Lottery guy that's always underachieved.

LeBron will make it work. Not really. are we going to ask anybody else inside the organization not name LeBron to make it work? DeJante Murray's a solid guy, can get you a bucket. But if the third team in three or four years is going to land DeJante Murray, he's not the answer.

And to get him, you'd have to give up potentially Reeves, who J. Mack loves. Good player, not great, but a good player and part of a chemistry that LeBron actually appears to like playing with him. So the last time the Lakers let go of a player that LeBron liked playing with Alex Caruso, they have regretted it. So don't let go of Austin Reeves a guy LeBron likes to play with because you'll regret it.

He didn't want to play with Westbrook. He didn't want to play with Delo. I can watch the games. He didn't want to play with Kuzma. I can watch the Lakers and go, LeBron doesn't want to play with that guy, that guy, that guy. Be very careful about moving off Austin Reeves because LeBron likes playing with him. I'm just saying. And I know he averages 20 a night.

And there's a lot of dudes in this league that average 20 a night, and they're bounce around the league guys. Lakers would be his third team in how many years? Let me get. Can I ask a theory? By the way, is Quinn Snyder a pretty smart guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was Greg Popovich a pretty smart guy?

Yep. They're both like, yeah, let's move. Theory, working theory here. All right. Just on the fly. Well, I gave it some thought driving in this morning. There's another trade that's happened. on the side, this is just misdirection to throw the scent off.

You know, we talk about the industry a lot. Clutch is very friendly with the guy who reported this, okay? Clutch is Rich Paul. Nice guy, no, Rich. Let's give this guy some crumbs, get everybody talking, and let's work on our real deal on the other side. They're not moving off Austin Reed. That's not happening, okay? This is a big smokescreen for something else that's happening.

I don't know if it's Zach Levine stuff. A lot of Laker fans don't want Zach Levine, but something is percolating somewhere. It ain't Dejante Murray. Okay, they're not doing that. The Hawks like Murray and Trey Murray, Tray Young, but that doesn't work. That backward doesn't work.

I was fooled I thought it would. Lakers have something cooking. I don't know what it is, but it ain't this. They're not moving off. Isn't it always LeBron will make it work? He kind of does everywhere he goes? Yeah, I know. But like Rui, average 13 in D.C. 10 here, it is what it is.

He had a great series against Memphis. They needed it. Oh, boy. He came through. I mean, at some point, can somebody beyond LeBron have to make stuff work? Why is it always LeBron? He's in year 48 in the league. I mean, it just feels like to me it's another rookie head coach, Rui A.Mara, soft AD,

DeAngelo Russell, make it work. That's a phenomenal point. And you know what the counter is? Well, not everybody gets Phil Jackson and Scotty Pippen to help make everything work. LeBron, anywhere he goes, whoever he's got to deal with, Rickety Kevin loves, Problem Child, Kyrie Irving, Chris Bosch, who's skittish after being a Toronto Star.

By the way, all these MJ lovers, are they going to acknowledge that he's never had a Phil Jackson? Darwin Ham, okay? That's not anti-Darvan Ham. He had Eric Spolster for four years and got to four straight finals. David Blatt, remember that guy? Well, I don't know that guy. I know it didn't work.

Yeah, exactly. LeBron deals with a bunch of crap. he gets a poo-poo platter here, there, everywhere, and he makes it work and gets to the finals. And by the way, and LeBron goes to Miami for four years and finally gets an elite coach and a great teammate and everybody complains, oh, he always wants the easy way out. By the way, we love Kevin Duran.

You and I both love him. He's great player. I've had a little history with him online. Listen, Kevin Duran only worked in one place. Okay? I know it was good in OKC, but that fell apart. Brooklyn. Man, that was a disaster.

Phoenix. Phoenix is not trending well. It's early. but, you know, seeing LeBron work every place he goes adds to this dude's legacy. Of course it does. People want to act like it digs it because he's surrounded by superstars. Okay. Yeah, he went from Cleveland that couldn't get him an all-star in seven years and said,

I just want to win championships. He goes to a great organization. Pat Riley, Mickey Ererson, Spolstra, D. Wade Bosch has a great place. Four trips to the finals. Two rings should have been three. And then, and he leaves like a good guy and goes, I want to go back to Cleveland and get my guys a ring. But it's just amazing. If you're going to contextualize MJ and LeBron, L.A. has just been won.

Hey, LeBron will solve it. LeBron will make it where I'm just saying, you better not move Austin Reeves. They're not, they're not doing that. By the way, how about Anthony Davis wins the title of Kentucky? Number one pick, amazing. Goes to New Orleans. One playoff series win. That's it.

Now he's alongside LeBron. Looks kind of good, huh? Looks like an awesome player. Well, he is an awesome player. But it took LeBron to make it work. Yeah. By the way, how is Kyrie Irving looked without playing alongside LeBron? Just curious.

I'm just, how is that worked out? Poor. Oh, I'm floored by that, Colin. Jeez, someone not next to LeBron doesn't look awesome anymore. It's funny how this works out, huh? It is. And people now want to say, they're on the clutch payroll. They're saying nice stuff about LeBron.

No, Rich Paul calls and yells at me. He's going to yell at me because I didn't love DeJante Marine today. I might as well get my phone here. Richel, hey, we need to talk after the show. Who are the guys who were the quickest on the text? Bill Simmons. I don't mind being yelled at. I've had a lot of people yell at me.

If Baker Mayfield called and yell at me, I'd take the call. Sure. I'm okay. I've had Russell Westbrook's guys yell at me. His handlers. I'm always willing to be yelled at. You can't stand up here and say it, but I'm just saying on Jejante Murray. It'd be the third team in three years.

Come on. You're lower on him than I. I'm not low on him. I'm just saying, like you like Zach Levine, my thing is, where are the wins? LeBron's always teaching guys about winning basketball. Like, J.R. Smith was talented. LeBron taught him winning basketball. There's a lot of guys in this league can get you a bucket. There's not a lot of guys that understand.

Draymond Green's a winning player. And everybody bangs on him. He's a winning player. He understands winning and defense and the catalyst and the IQ. Great point. He's also banging on everyone, stomping, poaching, everything. Come on. Okay. Have you talked to him? How's he doing?

You become a finesse West Coast guy. I like guys that get in your kitchen. Hour three next. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast.