The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 2 - Mike Tomlin, Mayfield, LIV-PGA

Episode Date: June 23, 2022

Mike Tomlin reminds us why he's a great head coach Baker Mayfield should be trying to get to Carolina The LIV Tour is forcing the PGA to treat their golfers better   Guest: Jeff GoodmanSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is hour two on a Thursday. We are live in Los Angeles. It's the hurt. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. The NBA draft is tonight. I always think it's good for about 20 minutes.

Look at the history of the NBA draft. Years and years and years. Decades ago, it used to have seven rounds like the NFL. Now it's down to two. and you would occasionally find a really nice second round player like Draymond Green or Yokic in Denver. It happens. But, you know, most of your talent's top 13, 14 picks, that's the reality of it. So, Janus is 15.

That's usually. And if you're going down to 15, you know, that's somebody that's not quite ready. That's years away. So I'm excited for it. Chet Holmgren's getting talked about a lot. He's the kid from Gonzaga. He's 7-1. he's 190 pounds.

He's highly skilled. I do worry about the body type. Porzingas and him have similar body types. Long, thin legs, slasher's, Durant, Brandon Ingram, those kind of players get hurt a lot. Now, Durant's been a great player, but he's hurt a lot. And Porzinger has hurt a lot. And Brandon Ingram hurt a lot.

So I think you have to be realistic when you have a Chet Holmgren. College basketball is 36 games a year, and you don't really have to play great defense to be a dominating college basketball player. The NBA is 82 games a year, and then if you're good, you play 90 to 100. I think you have to be realistic to players that are growing. You get hurt when you get fatigued. You come and you say, we're going to play 53 games, never more than 26 minutes a night,

and we're not looking to win the championship this year. And you give Chet Hongren a couple of years for his body to catch up. Because I think sometimes that was Brandon Ingram. They threw him out on the floor, and his body is growing. He's a slasher. Finn legs hits the floor. Everybody goes, Colin, you didn't think Kevin Durant, blah, blah, blah. No, Kevin Durant's great.

We can't say Chet Holmgren's going to be Kevin Durant. Yeah, that's insane. Let's relax on those comments a little bit. Kevin Durant's an all-time great player. Not saying that Chet won't become that, but you shouldn't put that on him right away. I don't think that you can be for the one and done rule and then not be for allowing these young men to develop. Like, you can't have it both ways. Yeah.

I think you should be able to leave. college early and go into the league and become a professional. But then you also have to support that they might not be ready to go into the pros and contribute at the same level that a five-year veteran is able to contribute. Yeah, like I look at Jabari Smith, the first pick and Jaden Ivy of Purdue. So the Auburn-Purdue kids, they're going to work. There's no question on their NBA players. You can watch them.

Sure. They're going to be better, I think, faster than Chet Hongren. But that's okay because Oklahoma City's got so many picks. they're going to take some big swings here. And by the way, they've hit a lot of home runs in the draft. Like that organization has done a really good job drafting players. So, but I don't think Chet Holmgren may not play as much, maybe banged up first year. I do think Jabari Smith and Jaden Ivy.

I've said Jaden Ivy, he's been my guy where I've said, if you watch college basketball this year and you turned on Purdue for five minutes, Jaden Ivy was so obviously an NBA player playing in college. It was like Jemar Chase when he was a wide receiver at L. you or Chase Young at Ohio State. That's an NFL player just happens to be on a college campus. Jaden Ivy's a pro. He's just playing in West Lafayette.

So I think he'll be like, like Anthony Edwards, you'll look at him at the end of year one and you'll be like, he just dropped 27 points. Right. But I'm saying just because a player doesn't develop into that right away, doesn't mean that they're a bus. That's right. Like certain players, you just have to be more patient with.

If you want it to be a one and done situation, then you've got to, you know, you've got to ride it out with them. They're still young. Jane and Ivy's body is ready to be an NBA player. Yes, people's bodies develop at different paces. Yeah, Jay Hungrude's body's not there yet. Yeah. Two football stories.

Number one, Mike Tom, there's, I find the Pittsburgh Steelers to me in the last decade, the single hardest good football team, and we all know who stinks and we all know who's good. It was easy to say Belichick, Brady, they're going to be great. It was easy to say the Jaguars won't, right? But of all the good teams, the upper crust of the NFL, top 12 teams or so, Pittsburgh's the hardest for me to kind of predict. And because there's so much that matters to me that they're good at. And one of the things I love is the no-b-s, common sense, intensity of Mike Tomlin on a podcast.

I just love this moment from Mike. I love coaches that resist the responsibility of coaches that talk negatively about a dude that can't learn and blah, about, man, if everybody can learn, we need less coaches. Yeah, that's right. If the group didn't need management, then we wouldn't make as much. Yep. I love reading draft evals and somebody's talking about anything other than pedigree. Talking about how poor somebody's hand usage is.

Well, that's coaching. It all is in line with that not seeking comfort because when you're a coach that's talking about somebody can't learn, you're seeking comfort. because your teaching is struggling. There's so much about that I love. He's so right. I love Mike Tomlin's energy. I love the stability of the organization. I love their draft consistency.

I like that they treat their players well, but we'll move off them. Don't become paralyzed by Lavian Bell, Antonio Brown. They'll move off guys. I always struggle with this, though. The world's changing. It's an offensive league.

And they're so embedded and so good on the defensive side. drafting and developing and designing. I just don't feel like they have a good feel for offense. They're not as detail-oriented as a Rams or a Niners on that side of the ball. And so I always struggle with what to do when I check, check, check. Like, I love reading a newspaper, but I don't want to invest in the newspaper business. That's not interesting to me.

I love so much of what the Steelers do. But it's hard to me to invest in. That's a Super Bowl team. I just, it's just, I always struggle with what to do with them. I know they'll be, I know they'll do a lot of things well. I thought they should have moved off Ben. And I understood sometimes you have legacy name. It's not easy to move off a Manning or a Brady or a Ben or a Farr.

Like I get it. It's hard. But it's, they are to me always, I struggle with them. When something brings me such joy and I agree with so much of it, but it's hard for me to invest in this team as a super, Super Bowl team when I don't think the side of the ball that 20, 22 football is about, I don't think they're great at it. They're running through offensive coordinators.

I don't love their decisions on those. Offensive line never quite feels right. Second football story to talk about. I know all you think I don't like Baker Mayfield, but I do not get any joy rooting against young people. There's no value in it for me. I was young. I needed breaks.

I stumbled. I root for young people to succeed. So I saw a story, Josina Anderson, CBS says that Baker Mayfield and the Seahawks, Seattle has huge interest in Baker Mayfield. Now, I've said before with Baker, I wouldn't go public with anything. But if I was Baker Mayfield, I'd tell my agent, get me to Carolina, I got no interest in Seattle. Seattle is not a good fit for him. They have a 70-year-old defensive head coach. They're in an absolutely brutal division.

Seattle's got the weakest roster in it. And also, the Seahawks just drafted two new offensive tackles. So they're going to have brand new kids at tackle. I think one of them is going to be great. But they're not going to be great year one. Or there's other stories Carolina's interested. I would tell my agent, get me to Carolina. I'll sacrifice stuff.

Why? Because Brady's leaving after this year. Pet division didn't have a quarterback. I'm going up against James Winston, Marcus Mariotta. Kyle Trask? I mean, that is, that is to me, warm weather, which I played in high school and college. I go to the NFC South. Brady leaves.

I would be the most talented quarterback in that division. Also, I mean, if you just put up Carolina and Seattle, you had the boxes to check, if you were a quarterback and you had influence on where you could go. So coach, well, Matt Ruhl is an offensive coach. I don't know his future, but I don't know Pete's future. Seattle's going to have a new owner here. They got a hot head for an owner in Carolina. I'll take the offensive guy.

So I've got an offensive coach. Seattle doesn't have an owner. I at least know my owner is all in in Carolina. Division, Panthers. Also expectations. Now think about this. You say expectations. Do you want to follow Russell Wilson?

I'd rather follow Sam Darnold. That's just my takeaway. So expectations are a lot. I mean, Mack Jones is living in that world now where he can get to the playoffs. Playoffs. I don't celebrate playoffs around here. If I'm Baker, I don't think he should go public. He's gone public enough for six quarterback lifetimes.

But I would make it really clear. Like Carolina, Baker could be the best quarterback in that division for years. Because 50% of these quarterback first round picks do not work. You go to Seattle. You know what it also tells you about Seattle? They saw Drew Locke at the OTA? Yeah. Because this story by Josina is long-term deal for Baker.

It tells you at the OTA, they saw Drew Locke, yeah. And they're like, eh, you're not great. That's not going to work. Okay. Jeff Goodman covered Kyrie in Boston. He's covering the NBA draft. He's going to join us next. I'm interested.

The first 30 minutes of the draft are fascinating to me. And that's what I'll watch tonight. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days, a week within the iHeart radio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where

doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. The inaugural USFL playoffs kick off this weekend on Fox as the Philadelphia stars face off with the New Jersey Generals for a birth in the title game.

From the pro football Hall of Fame Stadium in Cannes, it's the U.NU. SFL playoffs Saturday at 3 Eastern on Fox. Well, most people believe this is a very, very strong draft with a lot of good players. And it does feel like that. I mean, we've had drafts. I think it's the Victorola Depot draft where I just, I can, I think it was that draft. I'm like, I don't see anything here. And then we saw John Zion come out and you're like, you know, if Zion stays healthy,

those guys are going to be really good, really fast. And they were. And so I think this draft has the potential, but they were really excited. So Jeff Goodman's been covering college basketball forever. He's a basketball analyst for stadium. He's all over this stuff. So the guy I fell in love with watching this year is Jaden Ivy. Jeff, good to see you again.

And he was so dynamic. And I guess my comp was I see some Jahn-Mor-R-Rant, but they're different. So this is what you do for a living. J-Mor-Rant Jaden Ivy. When I say that, are there similarities or not? Well, there are in their gear, right? in their size, their athleticism, their gear. The biggest difference is Jock could do everything, right?

Like Jock has a combination of, to me, Russell Westbrook and Mike Conley coming out of Murray State. He can make people better, not a great shooter, but obviously he was able to make people better and get to the basket and whenever he wanted, finish over, through, around, whatever people. Ivy can do that, but Ivy's not a point guard. He's a two guard who's not a great shooter. Now, he became a better shooter this year from three, but he's streaky. It went from like 26% to 36% in transition in the open court.

He is phenomenal. Crazy. But you cannot have him as your point guard in the half court. Yeah, I mean, his highlights are they're the way he drives to the basket, it's scintillating. You cannot take your eyes off him. So Jamari Smith to me, and I think a lot of these guys are going to be. going to be good pros. Jabari Smith, to me, feels like kind of a can't miss. Tall, lean, still

filling out, shoots. Bruce Pearl was on the show yesterday. He said, I've never had a kid this competitive. I don't, you know, can't miss. It really doesn't exist anywhere in any draft. He feels like he's going to be pretty good, pretty quick. Or am I wrong on that one? No, I think he'll be good quick, but I don't think he'll be as good as Paula McCarroll will be that quick because, you know, Jabari's still 220 pounds. He's a sweet shooter. That's what he is. He's smooth. He can really shoot the ball from three, shot 42% from three last year at Auburn. You know, I hear people comparing him to Kevin Durant. And I'm just like, come on, people. What are we doing here? To me, the more apt comparison is like Richard Lewis. You know,

they're about 6'10. Richard Lewis in his really good, I think he's shot 39% from three in his career. had some years where he was averaging 20 and shooting 42% from three. So I think that's probably the more apt comparison. KD. Come on. Like, what are we doing here? You know, the Duke kids, Powell Bancaro is very interesting. So Duke had a lot of good players. And sometimes it is difficult when you have a strong coach, you have a bunch of good players that you're not as dominant as you would be if you played at Illinois or a good program, right? So not that you get lost, but I mean, the old joke about Michael Jordan, the only person to keep him under 20 was Dean Smith. And so I look at Bankero and I'm like, I like him a lot.

I feel like the NBA game may be better suited for him than maybe college. And that's not a knock on Duke. But when I look at his body, I'm like, that's an NBA body. Like that kid, I feel like he could be a better pro than a college guy, right? Yeah, like he's got a little, and I haven't heard this comparison, but I heard it this morning. from an NBA guy. He's got a little Janus in him. And by that, I mean, his body, his strength, his agility, you know, I mean, he's 16 and a half, 255 pounds, and he's athletic and he's strong and he's skilled. He could take it off the glass and push it. There's not much he can't do. I would say,

listen, Colin, to me, he's probably the odds on favorite, again, to be rookie of the year, because physically, not only is he going to hold his own, like other dudes aren't going to be able to match up with him in the NBA that are 30 years old physically to Apollo Bencaro. Yeah. He is, you know, there's, occasionally you'll see that with a Javon Curse or a Chase Young. They go to the NFL and you're like, they look like they've been in an NFL wait room for eight years. So, Chad Holmgren's fascinating, had Mark Few on yesterday.

Listen, it's legendary now that I said, you know, Porzingis, Kevin Durand. Brandon Ingram, skinny leg, like to slash, hit the floor hard. Those guys scare me. Now, Durant, obviously, is much better than I would have projected. I didn't know what I was talking about. But I do look at Chet and I think, man, he puts the ball on the floor. He slashes. You hit the floor when you're 7-2.

It looks different. It feels different. I see a lot of, I look at him and I think to myself, let him play 45 games, then 60. Like, I worry about physically, not the motor, but when you talk to NBA scouts, Do they worry about that? No, he plays hard as hell, and he's got an edge to him, Colin. The issue is none of that. The issue is not the skill.

I think the best comparison for him in a lot of ways is Anthony Davis. Because AD could put it on the floor. He could make plays off the bounce. He could shoot it. He was dominant defensively. What's our biggest issue with AD? Staying healthy. Now, Chet is only 188 pounds.

AD was much bigger and stronger and had room to add weight on his shoulders and on his frame. Chet, the issue is durability long term and also impact physically short term. Yeah, it's really interesting. So I do think, again, I think overall it's a, we're seeing a lot of college guys here. There is a G-League kid, and I do like college basketball. I'm tired of everybody marginalize it. I think it's a great marketing platform.

Now with NIL, you can get paid a little bit of money. I think it's going to empower college basketball. That makes me happy. I love March Madness. I think America loves March Badness. I told Bruce Pearl yesterday, NIL, I think, actually helps college basketball because I think these kids get better coaching at the college level for a year

than they would at the G-League. What is your sense about kind of a renaissance back to college basketball? Because I look at this list now, it's not as international, it's not as many G-leaguers, is a lot of college kids. Well, the difference now for college is a lot of these bigs, these old school bigs, you know, Oscar Shibwe, Armando Beacott, Hunter Dickinson, Trace Jackson Davis. They're all going back to school because they can make more money right now with NIL than they can on a two-way contract. You know, two ways, 500 grand. Oscar Shibwe at Kentucky, he's going to make upwards of two or three million dollars this year.

It's crazy. So, and again, you're a big, you're plotting big, you know, maybe you get drafted in the second round and get a guaranteed deal, maybe you get a two way or maybe you don't get drafted at all. It's a better financial deal. Kofi Coburn was on the flip side of it, right? Came out of Illinois, put his name in. Maybe he gets drafted in the 40s or 50s this year. Probably could have made more money going back to school at Illinois for another year. But, you know, listen, some guys are checked out of college.

They don't want to be in school. They don't want to go to classes. Right. They want to start their professional clock. I get it. Yeah. Jeff Goodman, basketball analyst for stadium. You do cover the NBA, too.

You were around that Celtic team with Kyrie Irving. I remember hearing stories after he left. Now, when a player is in an organization, it's pretty covert. They keep it tight-lipped. When he left, I heard a couple stories from people I trust that were like, that thing was a mess. What do you make of the Kyrie Irving stories, the times you covered him? I think he needs a stabilizing force, like a little.

LeBron, and even then, it lasts briefly. When I see Brooklyn... Condescending. Condescending is the biggest word I'll give you with Cairo. I've known him since he was 15 years old. And I remember that first year in Boston being in the locker room with the media and asking him what they thought of Kyrie. And they were like, oh, we love him.

He's terrific. I said, all right, I'm going to go cover college for a couple months. I'm going to come back. And I guarantee when I come back, you're going to have a different take. And sure enough, they did. They were tired of them at that point. Brooklyn's tired of them at this point. Listen, the bottom line is, and I just still can't believe Kevin Durant made this mistake

and hitched his wagon to Kyrie Irving instead of Steph Curry. Like, come on, Kevin. I just, you got to be smarter than that. And Kyrie, again, he beats to his own drum, terrific talent. But again, you just can't depend on it. Yeah. All right. This is Jeff Goodman tonight.

Are you a believer, Jamari Smith, Auburn Kid goes one? Are you a believer? Yes. You know, okay. So, Jeff, one of the things I've said is that Oklahoma City has so many picks that you have to draft Chet Holmgren. If you whiffs, he whiffs. You got four picks in the top 34. You got 17, 18 over the next five years.

So I think Oklahoma, if I had one pick, I don't know if I could take Chet Hongren. Four, I can take Chet. That's my feeling. Is that yours? Well, especially because you're a small market. team. So if you're San Presby, you got to just shoot for the stars at this point and hope that that Chet is something of a unicorn. And if he stays healthy, the hardest part when you look at Chad is where does he gain the weight? You could see it again with Anthony Davis. You can't see it.

He's kind of got that inverted chest. And it's hard to imagine Chad Holmgren gaining 30 or 40 pounds. But yeah, if I'm San Presdy, I take a shot on Chad Holmgren because, again, I'm not getting anybody in Free agency. We know that. Jabari Smith's going to be a good player, but I don't think he or Paulo can be transcended type players like Check could be if he somehow stays healthy. Yeah, that's a really good point. When you're the Utah's, when you are some of these small market teams, you're not going to attract the superstar free agent. The only way to get it is take a big swing like Milwaukee did 15th with Janus. Jeff Goodman, as always. Great stuff. Goods seen you again, Jeff. Always, Colin. Thank you. Yeah, that's the real point here,

to get a Carl Malone in Utah or a Janus, you know, and I don't remember Carl Malone's comp or, you know, I don't remember. He played a Louisiana Tech. I do remember that and they had a couple good years with him. But you've got to take big swings. And if you're in these big markets, you know, if you're in a Boston or like Miami, which, by the way, is always a wildly appealing free agent market, you may just say in a draft, hey, if they were up here, you'd say, we know Jaden Ivy's going to be good. he may not be a star, but there's no whiff I'm going to have with him.

That to me could be very appealing because we can go get free agents on the market. So everybody views this thing differently. Green Bay in the NFL a little bit. I would be more of a risk taker if I was the Packers. That's maybe their argument with Jordan Love is that we're not going to get Peyton Manning to come here as a free agent. We got to find we took a big risk on Aaron Rogers, who was a junior college guy out of Cal. He dropped. We took a big swing.

Farve had some personal issues in Atlanta. We took a big swing. So, I mean, that's the argument for Green Bay is we're not going to get Peyton Manning if he's on the market of Russell Wilson. We've got to go find it. We've got to go take a big swing and makes it all interesting. The Dollar Shave Club, six blade razor, noticeably smoother shaves, six stainless steel blades for swift hair removal. Dollar Shave Club razor sold at DollarShaveClub.com or in stores, Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, earlier this week, it was reported that Kyrie and the Nets were at an impasse regarding his contracts. Impasse. And with Kyrie's ties to LeBron, the Lakers have emerged as a significant threat to land Kyrie if he decides to move off of Brooklyn. Very fat. This stuff's all going to happen when I'm on vacation. I'm going to be totally bitter, calling joy.

Put me on from Turks. I can do a live shot. You're going to be doing your Instagram takes through the beach. I'm telling you, you better bring some hats. I know you're not a hat guy. I know, I'm not. That sun is hot down there. Well, it was also reported that Kyrie and LeBron have talked about a reunion.

They've discussed it. He has a player option. Kyrie does $36 million for this season. In order to join LeBron, he'd have to take a $30 million pay cut and signed a $6 million taxpayer, exemption with the Lakers. That's the most they could offer with their roster as it's currently constructed. He's an older player. You think he's going to take a $30 million cut?

I don't. I would not take a $30 million pay cut. Not at the end of my career. No. And he already has a championship. That's right. So, I mean, I get, if he was 24. If he was, if he's in the conversation, you know, he's in the LeBron, Yonis, KD, Steph

conversation. And, you know, we're talking about legacy and things like that. Okay. But he has a championship. Yeah. Not winning another championship is not going to change how we look at Kyrie as a player at all. But he did sacrifice 15 plus million last season by not getting vaccinated and missing the first

35 games of the season. So he is someone who has left money on the time. table before. 30 million is twice. It's double the 15 million that he left on the table by not playing. So the other part of this is that Wode reported that Brooklyn could risk alienating Durant's if Kyrie talks go south and potentially unfastinating him from his commitment to them. I have to be honest, when you think about the KD situation, KD. Kyrie's situation, but let's focus on Katie for a second. Do you see Katie finishing his career with Brooklyn? No, me either. I don't. I don't. Me either. And that's not, that's just because Katie is a mobile guy. Like we've seen him move around. Right.

And when I think of Katie, I think of him as himself. I don't, I don't think of him as being associated necessarily with a team, even though he's had great stretches with two different teams. Brooklyn's been a little rocky, sad moments, but he's, I just think of Katie. Yeah. So I don't. I don't. don't see him finishing his career in Brooklyn anyway. Now, obviously, Brooklyn doesn't want that. And Brooklyn would like to keep KD, of course. But the situation with Karee and KD and their relationship, like we're hearing reports that their relationship isn't great. Now, if it goes south, it's going to be bad on the KD side. Let me throw this to you. So I hear Brooklyn could be afraid that Kyrie could walk. Is that the worst thing? Isn't it better? I mean, because by the way, you're going to tell me that KD won't attract another player. People love, Katie is loved in the league.

With all this drama going on, Katie is not recruiting other players. That is, according to Woj. She said in previous off-season, rival agents and players would tell you of Katie's eagerness in talking to potential free agents. So far, that hasn't been the case. Outside of Irving, the Nett's most important free agent

is Patty Mills, who hasn't decided on whether to exercise his $7 million player option around the Irving drama. The Nets environment has made it harder to keep court role players. So Durant is not recruiting players right now. So he must be thinking they're going to sign Kyrie. And it's so weird to leave Steph or Kyrie. It's even stranger now that you've been with Kyrie for three years. It has been a disaster backing him still. I mean, their friendship must be strong. But then we're hearing reports that it's not. So I don't,

I mean, we're going to get an answer on how this is all going to play out, obviously. and whether Kyrie stays or he leaves and how much that affects Durant's decision to stay in Brooklyn long term. I don't think that this particular core group of KD, Kyrie and Ben Simmons, I don't know that I can see them winning. Not because they don't have the talent to win, but I think that culture matters.

I think defense matters while Ben Simmons is a good defensive player. I don't talk about Ben Simmons. When I see Ben Simmons on a basketball court again, then we can start talking about Ben Simmons. Right. That's my view of Ben Simmons on that team. When I see him dribbling a ball on a basketball court in an actual game, that's when I'll talk about Ben Simmons.

I just don't know. There's a complete unknown. And Kyrie is not an unknown to that level, but he is completely unreliable. I don't think that you can, I don't think that Kyrie is a two. I think he's a three. If Kyrie is three on your team,

that is something you can be excited about. Now, what you're saying is, profound because most people see him as a one. But I, with you believe, he's unequivocally not a one. He had an opportunity to be a one in Boston and that did not work. That's right. But most people just look at talent. Like Westbrook, to me, has never been a one. He doesn't have the self-awareness. Kyrie doesn't have the availability or consistency. So to me, a big part of being a one is, do you play well with others? Dee Wade, LeBron. You play well. Steph Curry, Dame Lillard. And despite what you think of KD, I believe that

KD is a one. Oh, absolutely. Not just in talent, but I watched him do it with a very functioning culture in a dynasty in Golden State. No, no. He can do that.

But Kyrie, there's a belief he's a two. Terrible defender, no leadership, not sure he shows up. That's a three. He's a three. And if he's a three, and you have a reliable two,

that's a great team. Yeah. Now, in theory, Ben Simmons would be that two. Let's not, I don't think that's going to be. That's what I'm saying. So they are missing that piece.

If they could get that piece, I would feel more confident about this course staying together and their ability to win a championship. So Baker Mayfield is still part of the Browns roster currently. One of the teams has been linked to Baker is Seattle. Justina Anderson, NFL Insider, reports that Seattle still has a high level of interest in trading for him, even open to extending him.

Now, this comes just a week after it was reported that the Panthers were having a little bit more urgency in trying to get Baker. They want to get him in the building if they are going to go in that direction. We have two teams now. Carolina, Seattle are both interested. Legitimate reporters are saying they're at least talking to his camp. Yes, I think this comes down to the money and what they'd have to give up for Baker, which obviously if you're Seattle, you don't want to give up anything.

And really both of these teams and anyone around the league, and this is a big part of why he doesn't have a market, it's not that people don't think he's going to come back healthy. That's not the situation. I think the personality part is a big part of it. And also that they know that Browns don't really have any leverage. Like the Brown signed to Sean Watson's $230 million. guaranteed they gave away all their leverage and negotiating with Baker. Had they moved Baker before

that Deshawn Watson contract, it might have been a different situation. And also the money that Baker is going to demand because they picked up his option in his rookie contract, he's due 18 million, almost 19 million, which is not, it's nothing when you look around the league at what franchise quarterbacks are demanding right now. But you don't want to give anything up for an unknown situation in Baker. Yeah. I kind of agree with you. I think maybe they saw a little bit more from Drew Locke and the confidence might have taken

a little bit of a dip. A lot of bit of a dip. Yeah. That's what I think. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News.

We've got another one brewing. That's around the corner. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and. the I Heart Radio app. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time,

but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches, we talk to players, we tell you stories. You download it, you listen to it, I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your... Podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the

athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or we're you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford

and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush

didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode, with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we, are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. We were just talking this morning, walking over to have breakfast about camps open up in late July. So the next month, you know,

you're going to have some stories. You're going to have NBA draft tonight. This is a good time to go on a family vacation. You have a little NBA free agent stuff. If Bradley Beale gets traded, a player I love, to the Celtics while I'm gone. I'm just going to tell you right now. I'm going to be bitter.

And I said earlier, I would, if I was Boston, move off Marcus Smart for Bradley Beal. I don't want to hear about he's the soul of the team. Draymond's the soul of the Warriors, right? I got four rings to show for it. I got games five and six to show for it. You got to give me more than soul of the team. What's it gotten you?

The Celtics don't have enough offense. They got plenty of defense. They got a great rim protector in Robert Williams, who I told you before this series was going to be the key to the series. So that guy, they don't, need great, more great defense. They had every starter got an all-NBA first team defense vote. That's not what they need. They need more natural offensive players, better ball handlers. Beals a nice ball handler. He's a brilliant shooter. He's a natural offensive player.

He's not going to be Mr. Initiate offense. He's your two, not your one. But it's an upgrade over smart offensively. And I think smart, as good as he is, he has been in this league a long time with a lot of collisions playing high-end defense. There's an argument to be made. This was his year. He just doesn't give you offense as consistently as Bradley Beal. When you watch the Warriors series, what did it come down to? It came down to the fact that the Warriors could give you points with Steph and Clay and Wiggins and Poole. They just kept throwing an offensive guy. Peyton one game had a big game. And after Tatum and Jalen Brown, it was cross your fingers. You know, so to me, to me, I believe you've got to improve. Even when you're a champion,

the Rams are like, we like Robert Woods. We're going to go out. Alan Robinson. We're going to get Bobby Wagner. They're always looking to improve. Now, Golden State is rare. I'm not sure of the moves you would make. They have this really unique young stars emerging, old stars aren't going anywhere. But by and large, you sit around and wait. Your rivals will upgrade. Brooklyn's going to upgrade. Miami's going to upgrade. You don't get him. He may go to Miami. Miami took you seven with Jimmy Butler playing on one knee. You put Bradley Beal on that team.

You're not getting to the finals anymore. Butler and Bradley Beal, Eric Spolstra, that defensive culture. Chris Middleton comes back for Milwaukee. If I was Milwaukee, I told you I'd trade Middleton for Beal. I would upgrade. Because I think eventually if you get to the finals and have to play a Golden State or a Dallas, you need more offense beyond Janus. You need an upgrade over Middleton, who's a good player.

But this idea, if you're Boston's in a weird space, Robert Williams knee, it may never be great. It may never be great. Marcus Smart. I think this is as good as it gets. I think Tatum's got a little more growth. I think Jalen Brown's a terrific player, not much more growth, but a terrific player. But it beals an upgrade offensively. This team is fine defensively. They need more shooters and more offense. That's going to get you past Miami. Sometimes you also have to make a move and it makes you uncomfortable because you're not going to grow in life if you don't make yourself a little uncomfortable. Do you want him going to Milwaukee or Miami? Miami makes moves. It's an acquisition city. It's a transplant city. L.A. and Miami. New people in,

new people out. That's the reality of those cities. They're very comfortable. Big money, big moves. Let's take a big swing. Boston's not. They get a little rigid. Be careful, because if Bradley Beal ends up in Miami, Boston, it's already been one bag in 35 years. I don't think you're getting Not anytime soon. Interesting story. Jay Monaghan is the PGA Tour Commissioner, and you all know the story where I have said, I'm not going to rip Greg Norman and Phil Mickelson and Brooks Kepka when our government has relationships with Saudi Arabia and our cars are full of Saudi oil. I probably would not go and take that paycheck. But there's a lot of things I wouldn't do or would do that athletes do, and I don't think they should be called out for everything.

I don't love my golfers that I love taking Saudi money, but I understand the world we're in right now, globalization, everybody pushes it. Well, this is the downside to globalization. Saudi money can come in and buy our tour. Jay Monaghan, I don't know him. I'm sure he's a bright guy. He said this, and I've got questions about it. I am not naive.

If this is an arms race, and if the only weapons here are dollar bills, the PGA tour can't compete. The PGA tour an American institution can't compete with a foreign monarchy that is spending billions of dollars in an attempt to buy the game of golf. We welcome good, healthy competition. The Live Saudi Golf League is not that. It's an irrational threat, one not concerned with the return on investment or true growth of the game. Well, you can say you're not naive, but does Jay Monaghan realize that not all rivals are as all

altruistic as you or are worried about what you're worried about the rich history of the game. I take the threat seriously. If they got Rory McElroy or Tiger, what am I going to sit around and watch? These guys are all still available to play the Masters, the British Open, the Ryder Cup, the stuff I watch. Listen, Saudi Arabia tried to buy the English Premier League to improve their image. Only government intervention stop that. Our government's not going to step in here. Our government has a good relationship with Saudi Arabia because they're in a hostile area of the country for us.

We need their oil and we need their alignment. So that's not going anywhere. It's another reason I've defended the golfers is we are constantly as a country in relationships with countries that do bad things. I'm not going to crush a golfer for taking $150 million. Everybody's an expert on money. They're never offered. Everybody's an expert on turning down money. they're never offered.

So I will say this. Saudi Arabia is buying these golfers to improve their global image. They tried to buy the UK. Jay Monaghan may not be naive, but there are hostile takeovers on Wall Street. Look up the name Carl Icon. He's made a career out of it. Is he in it for the altruism or the good of the company? No, he sees a vulnerable company, and he goes in and whatever word you want to use,

rate it, and then he has a stake in it, and then he drives it. it and it benefits him. They're called hostile takeovers. And Carl Icons made a career out of it. Now, he says they're not hostile. He said he's good for the business. And many argue he only goes to businesses that are poorly run.

Carl Icon's not going to the NFL. Carl Icon's not going to Apple. Carl Icon, maybe he has before. He goes to vulnerable businesses. The issue here is the PGA was vulnerable. And now they're being like idealistic. We are in it for the good of the game.

I always say this about pro athletes. Some are in it for winning. Some are in it for fame. Some are in it for making money and getting out. They'll have a right to play. But this idea that we are only, you know, it's this irrational threat. Listen, Saudi Arabia is becoming a disruptor. Okay.

Amazon's doing this now in broadcasting. They're going to pick and choose and they're buying the MGM and they're a little bit of a disruptor. whatever their intentions are, they have the money to buy it. And so Amazon now is going to go from selling books to having the Washington Post to having whole foods, to buying the MGM to probably buying TV networks. I don't know what the intentions are to get bigger, to buy stuff they want. I look at this and my points always been. Donald Trump was a disruptor for our American political system.

He was an outsider, and he became our 45th president. What were his intentions? I don't think his intentions are always good. He became our president. If you're sitting around bragging about your intentions and your growth of the game, how about you treat your golfers better? Do you see the PGA now has new ideas and suddenly has found money? How about you treat your golfers better?

Your stars better. That's why NFL players and NBA players, stars often take less to play in less desirable markets. Janice is like, yeah, I'll stay in Milwaukee. You treat him well. They market him. They protect him. Great training staffs.

Promote him. Golfers are taking these checks, not just because they're big checks. They feel like they've been tuned out, not marketed, not promoted. Bill Mickelson had to buy his media rights back from the PGA tour. Yuck. I'm not saying Jay Monaghan is naive, but not everybody's in it for the growth of the game. Hour three. Coming up.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. Get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw,

unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Cliford Show on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.