The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 2 - NBA blowouts, Browns

Episode Date: May 25, 2022

The NBA should consider changing the 3-point shot The Browns need to move on from Baker Mayfield sooner rather than later   Guest: Nick NurseSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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He's still in Toronto's going to be joining us in a few minutes. Joy Taylor is joining me. So we talked about the, there have been a lot of blowouts in the playoffs. Yes. And The Ringer today, Joy, has an article on this trend of more blowouts. And the ringer does good work, right? But they only go back, they start talking about, well, let's go back to 2015 and 2013. And my takeaway is those years are all in the three-point avalanche.

Yes. Okay. So analytics is overwhelmingly hurting sports, not name the NFL. Give you an example, baseball. It's hurting the game. There's fewer hits. There's fewer runs. there's less activity.

They need to get rid of the defensive shift, lower the mound, more base runners. There's just not enough activity. Ratings, attendance have been declining. The audience is telling you, the consumer is telling you, we're not as engaged with baseball as we were 10, 15 years ago. Make a move, pivot. The NBA, I think. Although the ratings are up for the playoffs, I don't think the games are as good.

More blowouts, ugly games. Now you can shorten it to a one or a three game series to create urgency, but the owners are not going to do that. So you're stuck with seven game series and blowouts. The NFL with analytics, and they've always been the best league at pivoting off stuff that doesn't work quickly and doubling down on stuff that does quickly. That's where the NFL's king.

They're really good at this. They move off stuff. They're not loyal to any rule. They steal rules from the XFL. They'll steal them from the USFL. They borrow stuff from the NBA. They're the great borrowing league. They don't care about, hey, we're the first to come up with this.

Hey, baseball does that, we'll take it. Hockey does that, we'll take it. It's how you run a business. McDonald's didn't invent the hamburger. The NFL's great at that. They double down on stuff that works. So fewer punts in the NFL, that's good. More going for it and forth down in the NFL now due to analytics.

That's good. More throwing on early downs. That's good. Two-point conversions are a riot. So the NFL analytics is more go for it, more passing. more courageous, you know, going for it, more offense. It's good for the league. The ratings are up.

The other sports, my only question is, why don't you pivot off it? Just move off stuff. So let's not talk baseball or football here. Let's talk basketball. I love basketball. I love the NBA. So here's the raw numbers on the percentage of three-point shots or three-point shots included over the last 10 years.

It's gone from 20 a game to 35. I think you're probably at your best when it's, It's about high 20s, mid to high 20s. I think about five, six years ago, I was good with it, but there were still mid-range stuff. I think 35, and it's trending up, 37, 38. It's too much. It's too much. And here's a great example.

So the Chicago Bulls are arguably the greatest basketball team ever. They had the greatest coach ever. They had the greatest player ever. And they had the best duo ever. Go to the last series against Utah. with one exception game three. The other games were 87, 86, 88, 85, 86, 82, 83, 81. That is a team that never won a title against the greatest coach, the greatest team,

the greatest duo, the greatest player ever. Because it was simply harder to blow people out, even Jordan, even Phil Jackson, even Pippin. A team that never won a title went toe to toe with the greatest team of all time and the greatest coach and the greatest player. Listen, all these leagues could have rules to make it all offense. Defense matters too. It's great that we watch Kansas City and Buffalo.

That was a great game. But that's Canadian football. If every game was like that, I don't think it would be as good a league. You've got to be able to give teams opportunities to win with a running game in defense. The Tennessee Titans were number one seed. That's good for the league. You can win with a running game because, folks, if you have to have a superstar quarterback, there's seven on the planet.

You get seven teams will dominate. You got to let teams win with running and defense. So my solution to the NBA, since owners are never going to give up seven game series, they're greedy, they're billionaires, they're not giving that up. So let's get out of the urgency argument. You're never going to have football's urgency. That's fine. Or college basketballs.

Because the owners aren't giving up these gates. They're not giving up these games. What you can have, though, is make the three-point shot easier to defend. I've used this before. I would take out the corner three. Therefore, allowing defenses to more easily defend angle threes and top of the key threes. Now, Steph Curry is still going to hit his. But when you don't have to defend the corner, it makes it easier.

Now, I would probably also move it out two or three inches, not a ton. I don't want to see center shooting threes. Make a little harder for the bigs. The guys that should be shooting three, Luca. Steph, the guys that you would think would shoot threes. If your center shooting threes, maybe it's too easy. But I think all of this stuff, I think baseball lower the mound and get rid of the defensive shifts.

We don't want hockey players sit in the crease all day. We don't let basketball players sit in the key all day. What a baseball guy is going to move all over the field and a second baseman gets to sit in the outfield. We always say, a football player, Joy, you have to have so many players on the line. Only one guy can be in motion. Sports have always been very restrictive. on movement and placement.

And baseball, lower the mound. Easier, you've got six, seven pitchers throwing 99 miles an hour at the top of a mountain down to a guy sitting there with no shot to get a hit. Just lower the mound. 24 times baseball's lower the mound. Do it again. The pitchers throw too hard.

They're too good. So I think this stuff is, I think that all this stuff, like I love the NBA, but I do think if you're going to have 43s, and it's that easy as these athletes now, The NBA is also recruiting from an international pool. It's never had more skilled players. I mean, the quality of skill in the NBA is insane. Everybody can shoot.

Everybody can handle the ball. Just make the three a little tougher. That's okay. I mean, again, basketball has gone really heavy offense like the NFL. Used to be able to hand check out. Put a forum on the back of a big guy. Can't. So the NBA and the NFL smartly have aided offense because that's what you, the fans like.

I just think it's a little too easy now. Too easy now. And for the record, Joy and I've said this. We like the NFL to have defense. You should be able to occasionally hit the quarterback, just occasionally. Nick Nurse is sitting here watching all this stuff. Coach the Raptors, he's probably saying, coward, would you get on to it? You're pontificating.

Good Lord. Bring me on already, Colin, would you? So, by the way, that's just my theory on this stuff. Your thought on the three-point shot, am I nuts? You tell me if I'm wrong. Well, I saw your court diagram there. I was just drawing up a one-three-one zone defense. Just in case we adopt it, it'll cover the wings a little better and leave the corner open.

So I'm with you. I'm ready for you if you get this past. Good to be on. Hi, Joy. How's it going? Good to see you guys. Listen, I think that the blowouts are an issue. We've been talking about it for weeks around here for sure.

and the three-pointers, I think a lot of them are created, Colin, because of the non-hand-checking. There's a lot of penetration that you have to collapse on, and then that's where the kick-out stuff happens, right? You know what, Nick, that's interesting, you bring that up. Because I said this, Joy is my witness, I said you should bring the hand-check back, and it's counterintuitive. I said, here's what concerns me. You cannot stay in front of the little guys. You just can't. You can't stand from them.

The problem is they get to the basket so easily and frequently. what happens? They get hit by bigger bodies and get hurt. Chris Paul, John Moran, I don't want John Morant hurt. I want John Morant giving me two or three great dunks. So I think the hand check, you think it's more physical. It actually, to me, protects point guards from running into the trees at the rim. Your thought on that. Yeah, I agree with you. The speed that they're going in there to the, it's like a car collision at the rim for those guys, right? And that The hand-checking would probably keep their, certainly their attempts of going in there, the speed at which they go in there having to hit those big guys and land on the floor.

I think you're right on point there, 100%. So I'm going to ask you about each team and some thoughts on it. Let's start with this, Luca. He's a terrific player. He is, there's bird comps, there's mellow comps, whatever. But I said the other day, certain players are easier to play with. And then there are certain guys. who wouldn't have wanted to play with Magic Johnson, right? He made everybody better.

Luca has a high ball usage. He's got the ball a lot. You want him to have the ball, Nick, but a lot of stars may think, I don't want to go sit there and watch Luca play, right? Are you concerned at all that Luca has the ball so often? It may be harder than we think to surround him with other elite players. Well, I think Luca is a good example, but there's quite a few guys that have the ball just about every time up the floor around the league. I think it's becoming more common with, you know, Luca, Janus, LeBron probably started all this, you know, bringing it up as a six-nine, you know, freight train and being able to pass the way they do and all those things and score. They can, they can shoot the three. They can get to the rim and they can find the open

teammate. You know, I don't know if I'm going to worry about what they need to do. I got enough I got enough to worry about with my own team. I always say that. But for us, when we play him, Colin, he's so hard to guard. He's so strong and so competitive and so tough and so skill. You know, all four of those things make him just incredible to try to game plan for him to guard. So the Celtics defense, Nick, there's been a lot of good defenses, but there was an argument to be made this year that this was like next level defense,

one of the better defenses in a decade. is it because most of their best players are in their athletic prime, so they're twitchy. It's not an older defense where you get the sage and the wisdom, but the bulls at the end weren't quite as quick, right, the last year with Michael? Or is it just scheme? Like, I watch Boston and they discombobulate teams. What is the secret sauce there to you, Nick? Well, I think that, you know, usually when you're talking about teams that are great defensively,

they're really versatile, Colin. They can do a lot, and that's what Boston can do. Everybody says, oh, it's the switching. Well, it's switching, but there's so many different ways to switch. You know, I think they've combined their athleticism, their length, their quick feet, their toughness, with a multitude of schemes. You know, sometimes they'll switch aggressively to disrupt you. Sometimes they'll lay back and late switch you. You know, sometimes they're switching sometimes and not the others, and they do a great job of,

of, I think I heard you talking the other day about when they send the small guy out and send another guy in behind them. You know, when you're trying to get to a certain matchup on the block, we call that scram switching, you know, scram that guy out of there and bring somebody else in. That is the key, when to know how to do that stuff, to be able to have a team that is capable of executing that stuff and being able to do it, you know, geez, out of one time out to the next and you're all of a sudden you're seeing something different and that's what makes it hard to play in. You know, the Warriors, they do a really, I said this yesterday, we always talk about, you know, the offense. But since Kerr took over, their number one in the NBA in opponent field goal percentage. So, you know, I mean, whether it was Iguodala, Looney's become a good defender, Clay, obviously, Dre.

They don't draft guys generally. Wiggins, by the way, is an undervalued defender. Andrew's very athletic. He can jump late and block stuff. And I think it does hide Steph's weakness, which is he's not a big physical defender. When you face the Warriors, they're a handful, obviously. Do you have you felt through the years that their defense is undervalued relative to their offensive marquee attention?

Yeah, so a couple things. One is they are great defensively, Colin. I don't know if you've, you know, this guy Ron Adams, who's been on their bench. He's like the guru of NBA defense, and he has been for a number of years. He is awesome. And I think he certainly has, again, also got a lot of schemes, not afraid to try anything, but he really has good connection with the players to get them to buy in to play both ends. And I've said these to you before, you know, when we played them in 2019,

the thing that I remember saying the most or being amazed by the most is how fast they run. right like like i'd tell the guys once if i told them a hundred i know they're running fast you got to chase them fast you know you got to run fast too and then you go to the other end and they're still playing defense right i mean the the the amount of speed and and uh frequency that you know those guys are flying around the floor to get their offensive shots and then they hit one and they go back and they're right up in your face executing great defensively they play both ends man they're they're so they're so good and when now they've got their chemistry rolling with those guys that have been together for six, seven,

eight years, whatever it's been now. They're really fun to watch. You know, the Andrew Wiggins piece is interesting because you know this. You brought a star from another team and won a title, and you got Kauai to buy in. And, I mean, Kauai had been public. I don't know if I'm going to stay here. And yet you got him to buy in as a star. And you guys had great chemistry before he got there.

Andrew Wiggins was a number one pick, and a lot of people are like it's not working, and they got him to buy in. Go back to Kauai. Because you guys may do that again, go out and get somebody. I understand that. What was the secret for you? Because the Warriors are doing it. What was the secret to get the buy-in and not disrupt chemistry,

which was great the day before he got there and yet still great after? Yeah, I mean, listen, I think the big thing about Kauai, and I also know Andrew Wiggins really well, too, and I'm not surprised by what he's doing because he loves to play. You know, people maybe put the knock. on him that he he likes to play ball man and and he's in a fun system and I think that their leaders give him give him some latitude they give him some shine you know they they let him do his thing and he loves to play and he's unbelievable athlete but with Kauai I mean listen it's it's a locker

room thing that that you want to buy in and you know Kauai used to tell me listen I'm I'm all about winning man and and I'd talk to him about hey what about making a run at the MVP And he'd be like, I'm not, I'm not interested in that. I want to win championships. You know, so that just tells you what kind of guy, Kauai was. And you're not, when you got a guy who's a total plural like Kauai, an absolute, you know, gamer, plays both ends, and then tells you that he's more concerned with winning than anything else. I mean, you're going to be able to fit that into any team.

By the way, Toronto is one of the most amazing cities. It's one of the only great cities I've never been to, but I hear amazing things about Toronto. What? I know. Come on up. man, let's go. Let's go. I'll take you. I don't know. I'll take you wherever you want to go. Really? I like to do, Colin. Go out to eat, right? Yeah, we'll go out to eat.

I like to eat. But your name every 15 minutes is up on the rumor board. What do you tell your family? When you see that stuff in the press, Nick Nurse is up for this job, Laker job, that job. How does it land for you? Oh, it's okay. I think it's always nice that people are thinking you can do those jobs. I know I saw the stuff about the Lakers. People think that you can, you know, go there and make a difference. I mean, you know, you said it already. This is a special place.

Toronto's amazing. Our fans are amazing. Our organization is awesome. I love working here. I don't see me going anywhere. All right. That's good. You look fantastic.

Continued success. You got it rolling there. Like the Warriors, you guys draft and develop. I like that. Hey, Colin, I know you got some guests in studio. I've never been in studio. Can I come out next time I'm in L.A. Can we do an in studio appearance?

Yes. These chairs have your name on them, Nick. We love to have you. Great seeing you, coach. All right. Take care. Thanks for having me on. Yeah.

So, see, he's a hand check guy too. Yeah, there are solutions to this. I mean, for everyone that's freaking out. The NBA once didn't have a three-point shot. Right, right. Yeah. like they added it so they could change it again. Leagues change stuff all the time.

The three, the hand check was seen. The league had the malice in the palace. So they tried to make the game a little more. Well, the hand check also allowed for more finesse players, European players to be able to come in and actually contribute to the league. Yes. I don't know if bringing more physicality into the sport is the right answer, especially considering, you know, how things have gone this particular postseason.

It's been a little chippy. So I don't know if we want to add that back into it, even though it's obviously not the same level as, you know, tackling guys. But I do like the way that the skill has developed for the league. I like your solution of making the three-point shot harder. I mean, athletes are just so good now. They're so developed. They work on these shots.

They've put up so many before they get to the league. and then once they get stronger as they get older and they've played in the league and have those calluses, anybody can knock down a three. It can't be that easy. Yeah, Anthony Davis shouldn't be shooting threes. Like it should be hard enough. Well, he did this year, but he tried, yes.

It should be hard enough where your center doesn't shoot it. They shouldn't even attempt it. That's right. It should be a wing guard thing. And that's okay. By the way, in the NFL, unless you're a crazy athlete, quarterbacks mostly shouldn't run. It's prohibitive.

Like, I don't want my quarterback running. Now, if he's Josh Allen or, Kyler, whether they're so big or kids. But ideally, there's certain... It should be an addition to your game. That's right. And three-point shot, if you're a big, like, Yokit's. Like, I covered Arvita Sabonis.

He was a beautiful jump shot. There are occasional bigs that can shoot. But you shouldn't... Like, if something's happening in a sport where everybody can do it, like if football was so easy that kickers could play wide out. Like, we do know sports should be hard enough at the pro level, because these people are so gifted that not everybody can do everything. There will be certain players who you don't want to go there.

Like in the NBA now, it's just everybody's got to shoot a three. It's become a positionless league. I'm mostly okay with that, but I like centers. Well, also, your solution eliminates the easiest three to shoot, which is the corner three. Let me ask you this, on planes. Do you like the fact there's a business class? Or should we have positionless planes? Well, that's what Southwest is.

A lot of people fly Southwest. Fine airline. I prefer British Airways. Southwest is a fine airline. If you're an advertiser, patronize our sponsor. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. CFOs that get it, get it. CFOs that don't, don't. Special one of a kind financing right now available. NetSuite.com slash herd. So sometimes pretty good is good enough. Pretty good is not good enough in the NFL at quarterback.

Stafford, Joe Burrow are not pretty good. If you go look at the last 10, 15 years of who's winning Super Bowls, there's a lot of Peyton Manning and a lot of Tom Brady. Pretty good is Kirk Cousins. So Tua now is finally getting support. He's got a new coach, an offensive coach. And he talked about Tua's growth. Here it is.

I've seen a guy that's attacking the moment. a guy that really likes to play football. You can tell the players played the position for a long time and that he thinks about the game of football through the lens of the quarterback position. And so I've been very excited about his development in terms of the offense and playing and being the starting quarterback for the Miami Dolphins.

So he had a defensive coach he didn't get along with he had a bad old line limited weapons and not much experience. But his numbers weren't terrible. They were kind of competent. 89 passer rating, 66% completion percent. 113 lost 8. Now he's got great weapons, insane weapons, offensive coach, who he loves.

And he's better. He's probably played more, right? So here is career numbers. They're not terrible. They're okay. Now you get an offensive coach. You get, I think the O-line's better, way better weapons, and he should like, you know, all these guys get better with more reps, right?

I don't think that's his ceiling. I think it's better with better weapons. So I said this a couple of months back, and it still holds. Now with a new offensive coach, Tyreek Hill and a better left tackle, upgrade at running back. Is it reasonable to think? to his numbers will go up. Now, he's not going to go to 120 passer rating.

But let's give him like a 10% increase on stuff, 10 to 15%. And so next year he's going to complete 69% of his throws. I'll say 23 touchdowns, only 8 picks and a 96 passer rating. And that's going to divide the room. How do you get rid of that? That's Minnesota's problem with Kirk Cousins. Those are good numbers. They're not great.

They're not elite. in the NFC, I'd be like, I'll stick with him. But look at the AFC. In his own division, Josh Allen, Bill Belichick, Brian Flores could not stop Josh Allen. Patrick Mahomes. One division has Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Russell Wilson, Derek Carr. There's Joe Burrow.

He looks like a star. Matt Ryan's now come over. Russell Wilson, he's over now from the NFC. So when you add the element of the top seven or eight quarterbacks in the AFC are now all elite. The top seven or eight in the NFC are not. There's three or four elite and three or four good. So there's a lot of things here. I think you can get trapped in pretty good.

And I think, too, at the end of this year, you're going to look up and you're going to be like, it's pretty good. And I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I've said this. I do not think he's elite. But you can win games with Jared Gough. who had an elite coach and elite weapons and elite O'Line. So I think, you know, you open the door to pretty good, and everybody now in Miami would take that.

You would take pretty good. But Andy Reid moved off that with Alex Smith and started with the Super Bowls. Mac Jones, rookie year, that's pretty good. The best coach ever. Good defense. How's it work? So I think you're going to get really clear, obvious rewards with the direction. of the franchise, but be careful.

This is where Minnesota's at. Because those numbers for Tua are not egregious, and now he's got a better coach offensively, a better line, way better weapons, and I'm not sure the division's any better. I don't think New England will be as good as last year, and I don't think the Jets are viable. So pretty good can be a rough place to be,

even though in the moment you'd take it. Joy with the News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. I will definitely take pretty good for the Dolphins. Remember, the question's going to be,

Dax's pretty good. Are you willing to pay him $38 million? Well, look, if you have a starting quarterback that is available and contributes, that is the price. So like I always say, paying your quarterback is a luxury. That's something you should want to pay for.

No, you're right. You're right. So Luca and the Mavs were able to avoid being swept last night by the Warriors winning 119-109. I did predict they were going to win the game last night. Like, they're not going to go out like that. Yeah, though they have pride. And by the way, they're at home.

They're good. They're a good team. Yes, they are. That's why they're there. Well, Lucas said they remain focused on winning the series despite the long odds. I mean, I still believe we can win, you know. So swept or not sweat at the end. If you lose, you lose.

So it doesn't matter how many you win, but we're going to, we have to go game by game. We're going to believe until the end. I just want to win the game and that's it. And then, you know, now it's, we want two games. games against the wall games or three. But we got more to do. You know, this is nothing. We got three more.

And, you know, we have to go game by game and believe. So the Mavs are attempting to become the first team in NBA history to overcome a 3-0 deficit to win a playoff series. The last 146 teams have failed to accomplish that. Now, it's a little bit of a mountain there. Something is until it isn't. So it is not impossible, but based off of the large amount of evidence, that we do have, it is very, very long odds that they're going to do this. How about those backups for the Warriors in the fourth?

They played. I mean, listen. Put a little fear. Put a little fear in you for a second. A couple more threes. Yeah. I actually, I would have left them in. It was just, you know, it just shows the stars, they were done with this game.

You put the hungry guys in. You're like, I would have them in. Why make an adjustment? No, I think you're right. You lost anyway. So you might as well. stick with them. The Mabs did come back from a two-o deficit and a three-two deficit to beat the Sons in the conference semifinals. So they know how to play from behind. This is a little bit of a

different situation. The Warriors are not the Sons. They are multiple championships. They know how to win. They know how to close series out. I do think it was a little bit of, you know, knowing you don't have to win this game as humans. If you know you don't have to do something, you don't quite give the effort that you do when you're desperate. That's just a natural thing to do. Someone argue that champions don't do that, but that's just the reality of it. It's harder to get up for something that you know you have a little bit more runway for.

And that is why I expected the Mavs to win because they don't. They have to win that game as they have to win every game from now on to stay in this. And I think either way, they've built a lot this season. They've learned a lot this season as an organization from Luka, what they need to put around Luka. and playing in these meaningful games does give you the calluses to be able to get back there as well. So no matter how this series ends,

I'm not going to think less of the Mavs for not beating the Warriors who are the better skilled team, the more complete team, the more experienced coach team and champions. So, you know, I think it was nice that the Mavs were able to get that win last night at home. A little bit of rain, too.

You did not look happy about those weeks. No, he was on his phone. Mad. Yeah. Nothing you can do about it. There's a leak. What are you going to do? Game five is tomorrow night, and the Warriors are currently favored by seven points,

according to Foxbat. So we got a little more information than Deshawn Watson situation from NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. He spoke yesterday at Spring League meetings and provided a bit of an update. I can't give you a timeline because I think that process will go forward. I think we're nearing the end of the investigative period, and then at some point, as you know, this will be handled by our disciplinary officer. And that will happen hopefully shortly. And then we'll see where that comes out.

So once the league completes their investigation, it will be handed over to their disciplinary officer, like Roger Goodell said, and she will decide what the suspension will be for Deshawn Watson. Sean Watson can then appeal, and Roger Goodell will then decide if that appeal will go through. The way things are shaping up, especially publicly, which we know that the NFL can be reactionary to a public opinion. There are some interviews now. Some of the accusers are speaking out and giving their story. I don't think it's going to be any less than six games. That's the precedent at this point for misconduct for violating the personal misconduct policy. my guess at this point is that it's a year.

Yeah, I mean, there's going to be some people that regardless of what it is are not going to be satisfied. So you're going to get, there's going to be a lot of. There's going to be people that don't think he should be suspended at all. That's right. Those people are non-contributors and should not be solicited in any way, shape, or form to the conversation. It feels like to me eight games today, from the information I have today, eight feels reasonable. about Thanksgiving time. It's like, so what we're saying is

we're not going to reward you. You're not winning the division. You're not going to be a playoff team. Like we're giving you an obstacle, which is befitting of what the move you made on this player who was inappropriate. We're going to make this year very difficult. That seems reasonable to me.

I think eight is probably reasonable based off of the fact that six to eight is the precedent for personal conduct. Again, you don't have to be arrested or, charge with anything in order to be suspended. I feel like I have to say that every time. That's not the standard for the NFL. But I think the number of cases in this situation is so unprecedented that if there's going to be people who are maddie suspended anyway, a year is going to be the standard for

something of this magnitude, for this amount of accusers. I feel like a year is what will end up being because you're going to, you're never to appease everyone, but at least that sets the precedent for if you're in this much trouble and the Browns make this dramatic of a move to get a player that's in this much trouble, this is what the repercussions for it are going to be. So now, according to, they're finishing a separate investigation. And again, each of these cases are separate. This is not a class action lawsuit. So the cases could go on past the investigation, but the NFL also is we're getting more and more reports they want to get this in before.

the league starts. So we would probably get an answer before the season starts. So the Niners were close to trading Garapolo before he had offseason surgery on his right shoulder. This Jimmy Garapolo story, I don't even know what to make of it anymore. I feel like every week it's a different version of what's happening with him. So Kyle Shanahan says they still have a trade in mind. Yeah, nothing's changed since his surgery. You know, where we were at before that and then he got the surgery so everything went on hold. I expect him at some time most likely to be traded. But who knows? That's not a guarantee. and it's been exactly on hold when that happened.

And when he's healthy, we'll see what happens. They're going to move him. They are. I feel like they are. But then he said in that quote, who knows? I'm going to love to. I just, what is the, at this point, we feel, we all feel like he's going to be traded. Well, I think it's the injury.

If he was an injury, he'd be dealt. He would have been dealt. But the injury did happen and he did have the surgery and you're in this situation. So this is sort of the situation at the beginning of the season last year. What is the value of not committing to Tray Lance? I don't think there is any. So like what's the games at this point? Well, I think they...

Everyone knows what Jimmy Garoppolo is. You're not fleecing anybody on Jimmy Garoppolo. I read the story this morning and they said they did try to move Garapolo and then he kind of threw a curveball at the Niners and said, yeah, I'm going to have a surgery and they're like, hey, Jimmy. So I think they look at it and think there's some value. as John Lynch said, he's too talented to give away. He got to a Super Bowl. We can't give him away. Like Baker, I'm at the give him away point.

Right. Because it's toxic as well. It's not toxic with Jimmy Garapolo. Yeah, Garoppolo is a great room guy. And I think Lynch looks at it and says, listen, we know we've gotten better value than we gave. We can't give him away. So they just think by saying that they're not sure if they're going to trade him, that's like making people think that he has more value to them and then they can. I just don't get the game here. Like you trade it up to get Traylance. Trey Lans is the future of the organization. You didn't take Trey Lans to keep Jimmy Gropolo. So the moment you took Trey Lans, everybody knew that Jimmy Garopolo was on the market.

You kept Jimmy Loplo and played him this year. He had a nice season. He's done a great job for you. But everyone knows you're trying to move off of him. That's right. So what the Niners are saying, he's too good to give away. And people think now because at Trey Lantz, we are going to give him away. So they're going to wait until a desperate team.

And there will be. We know. So I think John Lynch when he just says, listen, man, we can't give him away. He got to, like the Rams got a lot for Jared Goff. And there's an argument that Garapolo is better than Goff. No, but I guess where I'm coming from is we all know they want to trade him. We knew that the moment they took Trellance. And they will.

We know the surgery delayed things. But they're still not really committal publicly to Tray Lance. That's publicly. What's the value of not being publicly committed to Tray Lance? letting teams know in the league we're not giving Jimmy away. It's like the Lakers saying, we're not just going to. But doesn't that, how does that affect Trey Lance? Because you have private conversation with Trey Lantz saying,

we've got to play this stupid game with the media. You're our guy, but we're not going to go. So I think sometimes you just tell players in the room, listen, Trey, we got to say this because we want to get more players for you in return. But I think they made a decision in house to play. Yeah. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie New. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascon, would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour? I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Mather show,

a cult hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? if you will a world where we chat with captains of industry in media, sports, and more every week, explore some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. Endless hot water, easy on the environment. 15-year limited warranty. Go to tankless maidsimple.com. Look up Navian. Eric Mangini came on yesterday. Baker Mayfield has announced, or they are announcing he's not going to attend OTAs.

He will not attend OTAs. So you got so many questions with Baker. you got enough stuff with DeJohn Watson. Do you really want to answer questions about Baker-Mayfield? I would pay the money, give him away to somebody else. Again, I don't feel like he's a Super Bowl quarterback, even with great support. You know, you got a playoff win out of him. He made your relevant for four years.

You sold a lot of Browns jerseys. I think I'd cut bait here. Eric Mangini disagrees, though. He says, be patient. Baker's almost become a sympathetic figure here where people feel like maybe he's getting wrong. but I'd say at this point where Cleveland is, they've gone through the hard part. They've taken their lumps.

They've moved on to Deshaun Watson. And now wait, just wait. Quarterbacks are like currency. And at some point, either Seattle's going to look at their quarterback situation and say, we don't like it, or Carolina, or some starter is going to get hurt. And now Baker Mayfield is going to be really, really valuable.

Just wait and move them when you get value, because it's going to happen. All right. here are my five reasons. I would just move off Baker. I would pay his salary, get him out of the building. Number one. So you're not in a dire place with cap space. Like you've got a lot of it. You're not up against the cap. That's a big deal, right? So that's not the situation. If we pay Baker, oh, you got your offensive line set. You got your backs. You just got Amari Cooper. You got your pass rusher. You got a young linebacker you love. You got a lot of elements in place. You got

Denzel Ward. You got really good pieces. It is a Super Bowl roster with the right quarterback. The second reason I would move off Baker Mayfield. You didn't think he was mature enough as a starter. You think he's going to be good as a backup in the building. Like you didn't like him when it was his team. Now it's not. He's going to be humiliated. He's going to be angry. He's going to be resentful. So this isn't the baker you want. You didn't like the last Baker. You're going to like this Baker? The third reason I would move off Baker Mayfield. Jacobi Verset, five games last year, two and three for Miami. You can win enough games.

Can he go four and four with this roster? I think so. Three and five, five and three would be hopeful, four and four. Jacobi Verset's fine. He's also a great locker room guy. He'll keep the volume down as you wait for Deshawn Watson, and he won't be offended by it. And again, he's more than capable. He's a perfect backup.

He doesn't talk a lot and he wins some games. He's a good guy. Third reason, fourth reason I'd move off Baker Mayfield. This was a terrible quarterback class. Terrible. And yet nobody wanted Baker then. So his market was tiny in the worst quarterback draft class. Next year, six to seven first round picks.

His market's tinier than you think. And the fifth reason I would move off Baker Mayfield, the NFL has never been more quarterback-centric. You get a star, support him. Get a fifth round pick. get a six-round pick. Pay the money. It's a star-driven league. Okay.

Somebody's going to get desperate, and you could probably wait for that or not. Garapolo is going to be the first choice on the market because he's non-toxic. He's been to a Super Bowl. And let's be honest, he's won a lot of big games just off Green Bay. So to me, don't get too precious on this stuff. You got cap space. He's not your guy. Brissette is fine.

There's no market here. I mean, it's like inches. Hour three. Of the herd. Next. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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