The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 2 - NBA Finals, Lakers

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

Colin picks the Warriors to win the NBA title The Lakers search for a new head coach continues as they decide what to do with Russell Westbrook Guest: Mark MedinaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Radio, FS1. Fantastic basketball game last night. Warriors banquish the Mavericks. Celtics tonight should thump the heat. It is interesting. Everybody's just given the series. to Boston. So my takeaway is Miami's going to play so hard in the first half because they're just being told it. I mean, they're sitting in their hotel rooms hearing us all say, can't wait for the Warrior Celtics.

Oh, yeah. I think Miami's going to play so hard in the first half. And I just think they're out of ammo. They just don't have any. I'm hoping for a really good game tonight. I cannot believe the spread is eight and a half. I can. He can't score. They cannot, they cannot score. It's like there's a lid on the basket. It's impossible. Good. You're a wordsmith, by the way. Why? All that wordle's paying off. Vanquished. Hey, did you play...

Did you play Wordle this morning? Yeah, I heard you on the meeting. It was brutal. Not for me. But I understand, you know? But it was a word that women use more often. No hints, but yes. When I did solve it, I was like, I get why it took him a little while.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're such nerds. I love Wordle, though. Oh, I think it's... It's such a great way to start the day. And then I go from Whartle to the spelling bee, and nobody knows what I'm talking about. It's a little confidence boosts, too. I'm smart.

Yeah. Yesterday, yesterday, first time ever, second try. Boom. I came home. Give me a beer. Let me burn those brain cells I used to solve world. That's great to have you in. So James Worthy was talking yesterday, former Laker Gray.

I see James around town once in a while. I was a really good guy. And he was talking about the Lakers and about, you know, what they're going through right now. And he was saying, you know, they should be watching these other teams and how they do their business. Here's James. The Lakers, I think they have refused to build over the years. We've had some good players, Ingram, Randall, Ball. We have tried to win quickly.

We trade away draft picks to try to win immediately. And I think they're going to have to really think about how they need to build. We need to create players that have cohesiveness. You see what happened in Brooklyn. You see what happened with the Lakers. Even though everyone experienced injuries, not an experience. excuse still should be playing better or you should definitely be in the playoffs. So the Lakers have a lot.

It's embarrassing and it's unacceptable. Okay, time out. 35 years, the Celtics have one title. Memphis has none and Milwaukee has one. Lakers have eight. Okay. L.A. is not Milwaukee. And frankly, it's not Boston.

Star athletes love playing in Los Angeles. I don't love playing in Boston. the franchises that the Lakers have proven they attract superstars they have they will and they did they've got two now well they got three actually if you count Westbrook so here's the best way I would explain the Lakers if you have an advantage in sports or in life you're tall you're funny you're strong use it right Texas and Florida have no state tax and they use it to pry away high-earning people and companies from California. California is very innovative, but it's very highly taxed.

And Texas and Florida go after California employees and tech companies and say, no state tax, it's very effective. It's very effective. They have an advantage. They use it. California has an advantage. Perfect weather and the biggest economy by a mile in America. We have a massive economy.

So when stars come here, their endorsements double, their net worth doubles, the opportunities double. I mean, LeBron played in this league forever. He came to Los Angeles. Two years later, his net worth doubled. You're going to get Lincoln Riley has literally changed the entire roster at USC in five months. Best young quarterback, best young receiver. It's just the reality of California. They have advantages and they use those advantages.

Now, no state's perfect. You know, this state is highly taxed. It turns off regular people. The inflation is, it's hard enough to make it here without inflation problems. But this idea that, you know, we should have kept Julius Randall and Josh Hart and Lonzo Ball, the Knicks overpaid for Julius Randall, and I like him. Lonzo Ball got hurt again, and Josh Hart's a nice player. These are good players, but the Lakers have LeBron and AD.

What the Lakers need to attract another star is to get out of that Westbrook contract. Now, they may, I mean, it's hard to, like, wrap your brain around this. They may have to keep Westbrook for another year, suck it up and just then get it off the books. Nobody wants to hear that in Los Angeles. But there's an argument that you do it just because the Lakers, every time in the history of the Lakers, they've had cap space, they get a star. So they're taking advantage. They shouldn't build like Milwaukee. They shouldn't build like Boston.

Boston's a big city, but a lot of pro athletes, it's a winter league. want to play there. They, you know, it's got a history, a racial history. A lot of players aren't comfortable with. Okay. So the Lakers lean in to Los Angeles. USC is always leaned in to Los Angeles. I mean, the Dodgers, to their credit, they draft and developed players, but they went

out and got Freddie Freeman. Freddie Freeman's a great player from California, goes to the Braves, crushes, and they're like, you want to come back home? We'll pay a lot of money. They leaned into, he's from California. California also has a huge advantage. so many athletes are from here, Brady's from here, Aaron Rogers from here. So many of the athletes are from here.

If they don't sign with you initially, they all want to come back because the weather is perfect, and they have all their friends here. So the Lakers have always leaned into that, and they should. They should not be Memphis. It'd be silly. They have an advantage. Lean into it. Texas has an advantage.

Florida has an advantage. They use it. All right. Let's bring in Mark Medina, NBA writer. He's covered the Warriors. He's covered the Lakers. Right now, NBA writer for NBA.com. How are you, my friend?

Colin, good to see as always. Well, you know, you covered the Warriors for the San Jose Mercury News about five years ago, so they were right in the middle of this culture. And I was talking to Matt Barnes about this last night. I said, you know, the triangle offense has never been duplicated, and a lot of it is because it worked with Kobe and Michael, and you didn't have Kobe and Michael. But you watch the way they cut, the way they move.

and you think to yourself, well, but I don't think there's another Steph Curry. And I don't think, I think a lot of it is you can't duplicate it because there is no superstar, selfless. I think Steph is, when you covered him, he's such a unique, all-time great player. Yeah, and I think the thing about Steph Curry that I think is undervalued is that he's more than just the greatest shooter of all time.

I think he's the best leader in the NBA right now. he's a very good playmaker. I think that he has shown improvements as a defender. And because of all his skills as a shooter and playmaker, the gravitational pull that he has on defenses stretching out even to half court is amazing. So no doubt, the Warriors have a lot of good things going for them, but it always has started with Steph Curry, not only with his talent, but the way his leadership has had a trickle down effect with the rest of the organization. Matt Barnes was talking about. He said, you know, Colin, the old guy, want to teach the young guys and the young guys want to learn from the old guys. And that a lot of times the old guys got no interest teaching the young guys. And I think a lot of that, again, goes to Dre and Clay and Steph. They're really good guys at their heart. They're smart players.

The Andrew Wiggins is fascinating. And it's a lot of Andre Iguodala. Andre Aguadala could have gotten more points. Andrew Wiggins was a number one pick. Are you surprised he has worked so? He was an all-star. Are you surprised he's working? work with them?

Slightly. I knew that it would be a better environment for him because, look, he underachieved when he was with Minnesota. He was a number one pick. He was expected to be the face of the franchise, both as a leader and, you know, a producer. And he didn't live up to that. Here, he doesn't have that pressure.

He has other all-star players that he can play around him. And they, because of that culture, they can tap into what he does well, being a perimeter score, being a perimeter defender. I thought that he would check all these boxes. but I think he's exceeded those expectations because he's done it more consistently. I think most recently in the playoffs, the other thing he's done really well is being the best perimeter defender. Usually in the past warrior years, that job description belonged to Clay Thompson. But, you know, he's coming off of two and a half years worth of injuries.

I think that he has shown flashes of who Clay used to be. Last night was one of them. Yes, but usually on the offensive end, defensively, I don't think he's a liability, but he is not the top-level defender that he used to be. And so the Warriors can shield him a little bit and rely on Andrew Wiggins to say, hey, rough up Luca Donch, make things difficult for him. And he was able to do that for most of the series. So they get Peyton now, I think, at some point in the finals,

who's another versatile defender. And it's really interesting. Jordan Poole was the 28th pick and a G-leager, and, you know, Peyton wasn't that talked about. Wiseman, who is their big pick, has been a little bit of an odd fit. Kuminga's going to be good eventually. So when you were there, at some point, the great organizations, the Rams do this, they draft and develop, and they have stars. Does a lot of credit just simply go to Kerr, his IQ, he's played the game?

It just seems to me, I mean, I don't know who to give it credit for, but they just, they just develop guys. I mean, Clay was, Drayvon's a second round pick. Jordan Pools the 28 pick. Steph went below. Clay went below. At some point, who gets credit for that? Well, I think everyone, but when you're looking at those all-stars, I mean, look, Steve Kerr inherited those guys. He helped them get to another level. But when you're looking at the latter part of, you know, the Warriors' years with some of these young guys, a lot of it goes to Steve Kerr, Bob Myers, the Warriors' GM. And look, they don't have a perfect track record with this. They've missed on some young guys like Jacob Evans or Jordan Bell. But they've been able to be self-aware and course-corrected.

and also had the luxury of someone like Steph. And so what I think is interesting, when I was up in the Bay Area covering the Warriors state of day, in the middle of the dynasty run, a lot of the people from Joe Lacup to Bob to Steve Kerr to the players down, they were talking openly to me about trying to become this generation's version of the San Antonio Spurs, where I think the dynasty years, they were like the 90s Bulls. They're in the finals every year.

They're the championship favorite. And here I think you're seeing them. finally make that shift where I think they're favorite to win the title this year, but moving forward, I'm not always going to pinpoint them as being the favorite, but they're always going to be in the championship contending picture. And that's because of the similarities. Steph Curry is the Tim Duncan. You have Steve Kerr, Greg Popovich. They have the team-oriented culture of maximizing role players and putting them in a position to succeed. And I think this season really crystallizes that I think that they're going to be able to make that shift and becoming that

team. Listen, I, you know, obviously NBA players come into the league younger than NFL players, but Luca was also, European players grow up faster because you have the academies. So an 18-year-old European is like a 20-year-old American player. They demand more of them. They put him into the academies. It's basketball, first, second, and third. So Luca, I know he's like 23 years old, but he's a much more veteran sense to him than the average 23-year-old. He's been in the league four years. I love him. But this idea that, you know, next year he's going to come in shape, and he'll be a better defender. And my takeaway is this. What the Warriors have always done, Mark, is understand

that Steph was a bit of a liability defensively. He's a little, he's small. And so they almost never draft anybody that can't play D. Wiggins could play D. D. Dre, Clay can play D. So whether it's happenstance, luck, Wiseman length, Iggy. They have developed a culture around him that protects him. To me, Lucas never,

I got four years of this. He was terrible last night defensively. Like his ball usage is so high. There's a hardened element to him. He's not going to be a great defensive player. Like, let's just build, I'm okay with him drafting and developing, finding a clay. He's going to need the ball.

You find a guy like Donovan Mitchell who may need the ball, is not going to work. Yeah. So my takeaway is, I don't want to be like old guy, young guy, but I think Lucas established what he is. Let's accept that he's not going to be blank, blank, blank, blank, and draft and develop around him to protect him. Is that reasonable?

I think that's reasonable. I think, though, with Lucas, I don't think he's going to follow James Hardin's path. I don't think that he's going to be the all-stats kind of player that can do a lot of special things but doesn't lead to consistent winning basketball. I think that on the offensive end, he has the complete package. Of course, he can improve as a playmaker trusting his teammates. But I think in fairness to him, he did show a subtle shift in improvement with that. Once they got off the Porzinga's deal, they got a handful of good role players,

not great players, but good players that can do a decent job, right? Now I think the next step is, well, from the Mavs end, can they find in a trade a second all-star caliber player? that can compliment Luca. What do you make a Rudy Gobert? I think it could work, but I think there's also questions at the same time that the Utah Jazz face. No question. He's a really good defender at the rim, but what are you sacrificing?

One of the things that the Utah Jazz had sacrificed with having him is they didn't have the kind of wing presence that they needed to defend the perimeter. That's right. And so Rudy Goldberg is a great defender, but unlike Traymond Green, he's not defending all five positions. He's defending the rim. So I think from a chemistry one-two punch standpoint, that is a great combination, Rudy Colbert and Luca, but I am a little worried of, you know, what kind of depth would you be

sacrificing, so to speak. So it's interesting. Robert Williams, I think we said this yesterday, he's not going to get a lot of, he's not a glamorous player, but like a smart and a Jalen Brown and a Jason Tatum, he's defined what he is. It's a tremendous interior defensive presence. He accepts that. He can also, because of his length and quickness, he means an athlete, he can get outside a little bit and defend. So he is, there's a side, between he and Al Hortford, there's a little size advantage on the Warriors. Almost everybody has a size advantage on the Warriors. So there's a little bit of rub there where you're

like, Boston's could have some matchup advantages. Where I think the Warriors have an advantage is they have so many different ways to score. And I feel like Boston tends to be very Tatum, not centric, but they need them to drop 26 to win. So my feeling is experience and offensive options, golden states better. Can you see a world in which Boston is a big matchup problem for the Warriors? I could see it being a competitive series. I favor the Warriors. No doubt they're better in the interior. But, you know, when I talked with Bob Myers a few weeks ago, hey, why? at the trade deadline, why not try to address the center spot? And they were

just very bullish on, you know what, it's nice to have a big, but in today's NBA, it's overrated. He was explaining, well, one, they didn't know that Wiseman would be out the entire year, but I think the bigger part is that they were really leaning in on,

hey, you need positional, versatile players in today's NBA. That is no question. And we have great skill guys in Draymond Green and Kavon Luni that hey, they're not seven-footers or even 6-10, but they are so versatile and hard-working

and aware of how to defend multiple positions, that's almost a non-factor. And I think that you saw this during the early part of the playoffs here, where Nicole Yokic was Nicole Yokic, and he's great and he deserves the MVP, but they just kept throwing bodies at him and frustrate him and daring

everyone else to help out, and that didn't happen. No, I mean, we were talking about this earlier. Phoenix looks like. they've got all sorts of things to worry about in the offseason. The way Golden State took apart Dallas, whereas they didn't really have a Luca matchup. I mean, McAle Bridges a little bit, but they didn't have a second body. I mean, Golden State throws Dre, Andrew Wiggins.

You could just throw, and I think Jason Tatum, you don't have to stop him. Make him shoot 42% from the field, not 46. And that's a lot of what Golden State did with Luca. Just make everything uncomfortable. Yeah, without a doubt. And I think the other thing where Boston does have, have the advantages. Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, their chemistry has improved dramatically throughout the season. Part of it because they've finally had time together before having a lot of

injuries to open the season. But E. Medi Adoka has really done a good job in finding the best floor combinations around them so that they can do what they do best as well as Marcus Smart's defense. So when you add all these things, I think it's a hell of a matchup, but I would still favor the Warriors because of the point that you made experience. It's not like the Celtics are going to be overwhelmed with the moment. But you get tight when you don't have that ring. Yeah. And I think with just the tactical adjustments and the comfort level, the Warriors can lean on that. They have that championship formula that they've relied on the past. Not the same team, but they have the muscle memory that Steph Clay and Draymond have from all those final

arms. So you covered the Lakers at one point. That's when I first, I think, met you. That was back in six or seven, eight years ago. So I was saying, before you came on. Like, the Lakers don't need to be Milwaukee. They lean into what they are. So the issue here is, I think you have to be honest, that LeBron's going to give you about 55 games a year at this point. And AD is going to give you about 60, but he's going to get hurt.

And you're fine. They need to get younger. They're really old. They were the oldest team in league history. They've got to get younger. They're not going to do it through picks. They've got to make a move. The Westbrook dilemma is clear.

Okay. He doesn't play off ball. There's a lack of self-awareness. a toxicity to his game. We all get it. I would move him as fast as I could. But there is the, every time the Lakers have cap space, they're going to get a star.

And you can't argue it. They've done this for five, you know, four or five decades. Go watch winning time. Spencer Hayway. It doesn't matter. LA attracts pro athletes more than ever. What would you do with the Westbrook dilemma? Well, I'm with you.

They need to trade Westbrook. and look, it takes two partners to tango and he has a depressed market. But this idea that the Lakers may be holding out hope that, hey, with more than 21 games with LeBron and AD together last season and a new coach, we'll all of a sudden see a new and improve Russell Westbrook. I think that's overstated. And I think the other thing is, look, the Lakers have a lot of roster deficiencies. And they don't have enough cap space beyond a mid-level exception at $6 million.

They can only get vet minimum guys and they can't sell oh, we're a championship contending team. So this Westbrook deal is the way to improve the roster and a handful of role players like the way the Washington Wizards did when they dealt Westbrook. So I think that they need to do that even if it comes at the cost of trading that draft pick because you have LeBron James on your team. I know that, yeah, there's questions about his 20th season.

How healthy can he be? But when he's been on the floor, he's still been to LeBron James in his primaries, and as long as he's on the team, you have that championship window, so you can't leave that shut. The cap space, I definitely agree with, but that's something that you worry about when you're a rebuilding team. This team, if you have LeBron James, you're not rebuilding. No, and LeBron also, let's be fair, it's easy to dump on him now, but he tends to elevate others. So if you get the right piece, have you put Buddy Healed on this team, buddy healed would be the best buddy healed of his career. If you put Malcolm Brogden on this team,

he would be the best Malcolm Brogden. LeBron has a history of making everybody work young or old. Finally, I'm in the Doc Rivers Camp because I think this job is a lot, a lot. Darwin Ham, a lot of people like him saying, you know what, let's start over. There's an argument for that. Hey, let's get the next young guy. Let's get the next full strut. He played.

He's got a strong presence. I'm not anti-Anti, Darwin Ham. I do think this job is just political. A lot of voices in Jeannie Busses there. And she's very social animal. She takes them. She's got all tentacles all over Los Angeles. Where do you land on it?

I think any of the candidates are fine, but I would favor Darvindham. I am in that camp. I'm aware that he doesn't have the NBA head coaching experience, but one, he's a former NBA player. He's been an assistant coach with the Hawks. He's not the right way. He's put the time in. Mike Boulin-holds.

So he's going to have the credibility and the respect of the locker room and holding guys accountable. And for whatever deficiencies he might have as a head coach, well, A, he's played the game, so he knows at least some things, right? But B, he can have a veteran assistant coach on his staff that can shield him from some of those weaknesses. You know, that's what Sean McVeigh did when he got here. Yeah. He was like, you know what? I'm the kid. I got to buy some credibility, and Wade Phillips literally has been coaching my entire life. Yeah. So there is value to bring it on a veteran guy. And without a doubt, but I think the bigger thing, when we're talking about the Lakers, head coach or players, it really comes down to the importance of the front office and what the

synergy and collaboration is and is there, are there too many cooks in the kitchen or can they finally be on the same page? And if they are on the same page, can they get the right roster pieces realistically so that they can get back in the hunt again? I mean, they're only two years removed from the NBA title. And so much has happened since then where they've gone south. Yeah, it's, would you give up that like 2027 first round? I mean, I would because I would. Yeah, it's amazing. People I respect that cover the NBA are like, you cannot give up that pick. And I'm like, four or five years in Los Angeles, we'll have nine more social media platforms. I mean, we'll have nine more TikToks. Like, to me, that is such an eternity for pro basketball.

Right. Real quick. I understand why they didn't do that with the John Wall Trade last season, just because middle of the season, there's question marks there, won't solve anything dramatically. but here they're entering an entirely new season. They have to be willing to do that. Again, they have LeBron on the team. That means they still have that fighter's chance to open that window again. What a pleasure to see you. Likewise.

You live down here again, right? I do, yep. Back up to the Bay for the finals, though. Well, you know, get used to that. We have four more years ago. Good seeing you. Likewise. One more herd?

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the I-Hard Radio app. Search Herd to listen, or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics

from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at a podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day,

but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people. in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you start looking around the West, the teams that have had great success have offensive coaches.

So McVeigh and the Rams, offensive coach. Chargers went defensive coach. Arizona's rising in the West, offensive coach in terms of Cliff Kingsbury. The Warriors, offensive coach. The Seahawks, defensive coach. Denver has pivoted from defense to offensive coach. USC went and got an offensive coach. This will be the best UCLA football team in years.

Chip Kelly, offensive coach. So the Lakers, you know, there's a trend what's happening. Leagues like offense. Players like offense. And the leagues like offense because scoring Kansas City and Buffalo is the best football game played in the National Football League last year. That is nothing against the way the Titans win. But you can't, you know, Andy Reid Mahomes, Josh Allen, Stefan Diggs.

There's a clear path what's happening in these leagues. They're trying to make them safer in the NFL. What's that mean? Less violence. What's that mean? Protecting offensive players. So the league, the business of football is telling you, offensive guys are going to work better than defensive guys.

Brian Flores was brilliant. Could not communicate. Well, with offensive people in the building, got fired. Belichick a genius. Doesn't really have a history of working well. He gave it to Josh McDaniels. By the way, Las Vegas Raiders went offense. So you're seeing, that's why when Oklahoma hired Brett Venables,

and I know he's tough and he's a former defensive guy. Like Nick Saban admitted six years ago in the New York Times, I can't stop people. Nick Sabin couldn't. Like, we can't stop everybody. We've got to go to offense. And so, you know, whoever the Lakers hire, it seems to me, make sure they're good on the offensive end. Now, Darvin Ham's a very good communicator.

He resonates with players. Either what he should do is double down on offense because you're seeing what's happening. I'm just talking about the West when I watch it. Seattle's struggling. They went defense. It didn't resonate with their star quarterback. Right? Chargers went defense.

And there are people who I trust in the NFL that don't think the chargers give Justin Herbert enough clever. Like the kid was a 4-2 college student. Open it up, give him more offense, more looks, more variables, more clever. Fair or not. So, you know, whoever you're going to hire going forward in football, I would heavily lean offense. Because Mike Zimmer can coach. What happened? defensive coach in Minnesota did not resonate with Kirk Cousins.

Pete Carroll can coach didn't resonate with his quarterback. So the bottom line is football coaches from the offensive side, they talk a different language. We had Eric Mangini on the other day. He said, he goes, I was a defensive coach. When I went to offense, he's like, it's an odd fit. There's a different code, a different sensibility, a different language. So, and I just, I, you know, Doc Rivers, I don't know what he's known for.

he just gets along with players well. But you can have flaws, but boy, if you're struggling offensively, it is hard to win these games. I mean, as good as Janice is. He didn't have his best shooter. They couldn't get to the Eastern Conference finals as the best team in the league. And, you know, so Luca having deficiencies defensively, as I've been saying here for like a week, in the world, getting in shape I'm worried about. but he's not a great defender.

All right. Draft and develop some young defenders. You want a guy that can score. It's a luxury to have Jason Tatum that gives you both. But inevitably, what will happen to Jason Tatum in about six years, he'll stop playing defense. It's like the end of Kobe's career. Defense is hard.

And you can't play 44 minutes, both ends once you get out of your physical peak. So Tatum's got about four more years, great both sides. Then he got moved toward the offense more than the defense, and that's fine. That's the way it works. Michael's one of the few guys at the end. He could still defend man on man. But whoever, if you're looking for a coach in football and basketball, I would lean offense.

You know, there are exceptions, but you're seeing it in football clearly now. Is the offensive guys, especially in pro football, have a huge advantage. Just rules and legislation of the sport. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, speaking of Luca, his playoff journey is over.

The Mavs lost in game five to the Warriors last night. He finished the game with 28 points, nine rebounds, and six assists. But he wasn't pleased with his performance, saying he played terribly, and he specifically noted that his defense needs to improve. Defense, I think defense has got to be way better for me. Honestly, I think I made a huge step this year defensively, but there's so much room for improvement. and I got to be way better there.

So I think that's one spot that can take us to the next level. I'm with you. I don't need Luca to be a great defensive player. I don't. But when you think of great defensive players, not even great defensive players because he's not going to be a great defensive player. So it's pointless.

A great two-way player, somebody that you know can contribute on defense. He isn't a liability. Offball defender. Larry Bird was a very good team defender. He can't be a liability. That's right. On defense.

He was a liability in the second half. That's what can't happen. Right. So there's no point in discussing developing Luca into a great defensive player. He shouldn't be giving that much effort on the defensive side of the ball if he is that great of a score. It is a luxury to have someone who can put up 40 points regularly. That is a thing. Allow him to do that.

But he just can't be a gaping hole on the defensive side of the ball. I also think he's a pretty clever passer like Hardin. He can distribute. Luca out of a double. He's not, you know, Kobe didn't do it much, but Kobe had a pretty good eye. He was a pretty clever passer when he wanted to be.

Well, Luca averaged 32 points, 9.2 rebounds and 6 assists per game in the series against the Warriors and shot 41.5% from the field and 34% from 3. That's not the guy that I need to be a stopper on the defensive side of the ball. You know what Luca is. And at this point, we know what he is overall as a player.

He's going to improve. He's going to be more tactical. He's going to learn more about the game. my concern with Luca is his body. And I don't know if that's going to change. We were talking about this in the makeup room earlier today, just how people are programmed and wired. We are wired to do a show every day.

Everybody thinks they want to do a daily show. By daily, that means you come to work every day. At 5.45. Every day. At the same time, whether you feel like it, whether you want to take a day off or go on vacation or like schedule a meeting instead or whatever. No.

This show airs at the same time every single day. You have to be wired to do a daily show. And not everybody is. And people think that they are. And then they realize like, oh, you guys work every day. Yes, every day. Yeah. Monday through Friday, you work.

There are certain jobs where you have to be wired to do that. If you're wired to work out the way that LeBron and Tom Brady and Russell Wilson. They don't have to be talked into it. Nobody has to convince them. I have to convince myself every day to work out. I am not wired that way. I played sports and then once I stopped playing sports, that got out of me. I used to love going to the gym every day.

Not anymore. Now I do, but it's a chore. It's something I have to do every day. So I make myself do it. If you're a professional athlete that wants to be in the gym, that wants to be in great shape that comes into training camp in shape, that is just a... Shannon Sharp, you don't have to worry about Shannon Sharp

is going to come in to training camp in shape. Like, he was notorious for that. He's still notorious. Right. He's going to be in better shape than, everyone else there. So I don't know if that changes in Luke. I just think that people are just wired that way. Yeah, I agree on that. And he's been in the league four years. Like, when is that, when is that clicking? Was he a great defender in European basketball? Not really. That's not what he was.

But stop. Know thyself. Like, know what you're good at. And they, the Mavericks need to know what they have in him as well. Stop trying to push people into these other things. So the Cowboys got rid of Amari Cooper this offseason and straighted him to the Browns. Now, C.D. Lamb is supposed to be the number one receiver and Jerry Jones is confident that he can step up to that task. Jones told the Fort Worth Star Telegram that Lamb will be an upgrade over Cooper as the true number one. He said Lamb has the potential to be a more complete receiver in production both in the huddle and off the field and he's excited to see what Lamb does in 2022. Amari Cooper had 68 catches, 865 yards and 8 touchdowns in 15 games last season. CD Lamb had 79 catches, 1100 yards and 6

touchdowns in 16 games. He led the Cowboys in receiving guards last season. Cooper was second. I do think that this is a great opportunity for C.D. Lamb to step up into that number one role. I like that Jerry is very confident in him, but Jerry is obviously always going to speak life into the situation and speak life into his players. That's what Jerry does. I can't wait to see it because Amari Cooper was a reliable guy. And Dax numbers with and without Amari Cooper are staggering. I see he's really, he is a star. He is very talented and this is his opportunity. So last week George Kittle said he believes Travis Kelsey is underpaid and it boggles his mind

that Kelsey makes less than many top receivers in the league right now. Well, Travis was asked about that. He said he appreciated the comment from Kittle, but that money is not his main focus in the league. He said, that's my guy and he always wants to see every tight end get paid as much as their production is. But at the same time, I signed my contract understanding what I had. I put a lot into this man. money in my mind is almost secondary at this point in my career. I'm here for the legacy and here to try and make the Kansas City Chiefs the best team possible.

So that is my main focus. Well, I agree that he should be. You know how the NBA has become a positionless league? Yes. We've got to be careful about making Travis Kelsey is you could, he's not just a tight end. He is now will be their number one weapon. And he's also, at least you can put a fast corner on a fast receiver. he's a nightmare because he's too fast for linebackers and too big for

safeties. So what Kelsey is is not a tight end. He's the late Aaron Hernandez. He's a matchup nightmare. There's nobody that matches up. So I mean, I always think about this. If I was his agent, what would I argue? I would just go, here's his production.

Get over the tight end thing. All I know is this. If Travis Kelsey was on the market, what would he fetch? It would not be tight end money. No, of course not. But you can, you know, there is an argument, I think. Obviously, why receivers have extreme value and we have seen the number skyrocket for them because everything leans towards the offensive side of the ball in the middle of the field is wide open now.

But to your point, no one's built like him. No one is physically constructed like George Kittle. First of all, look at him. Look at people don't even want to, look at these little guys. Yeah, they're like linemen that are faster with great hands and can also serve as blockers and decoys. So the value of having a star tight end, you can almost argue. You can almost argue this is more valuable than a number one receiver production.

And when you look at the relationship that Rob Gruncowski and Tom Brady have had, like forget, we don't even talk about other receivers. It's Rob and Tom. Yeah. And he's not a receiver. We don't even talk about the receivers that Tom has played with. Yeah, and Kelsey's faster than Gronk. He's second amongst tight ends.

He makes $14.3 million per year. He would rank 23rd among all. wide receivers and tight ends. That's just so ridiculous. It really is. But he wants to win championships with the Chiefs, so. I respect. And he makes some money on the side, too. He makes good money on the side. He does real well on the side.

Yes. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. When you're a tight end and you're pulling away from safeties and corners have no interest, you watch all these corners on those highlights, they don't want to tackle them high. They're all going for the legs. They've got no interest going upstairs on him. Like he is just,

You're going to do? Hug him? It's just... How are you going to tackle him upstairs? Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Ben Maller, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller, along with my trusty sidekick, David Gascone, would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour?

I'll tell you, it's a spinoff of the Ben Maller show, a cult hit overnights on FSR. Why should you listen? Picture if you will a world When we chat with captains of industry In media, sports and more every week Explore some amazing facts about human nature and more Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather On the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of ton-tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was so funny the other day somebody was saying, Colin, you know, you talk about these California teams nonstop. And I'm like, yeah, because that's because they win. What do you want me to talk about?

Warriors are going to win the title. Rams won the Super Bowl. Two years ago, the Dodgers won the World Series. The Lakers won the NBA championship. And Lincoln Riley is going to win the Pac 12 this year. Oregon may pushback. Utah, maybe. What do you want me to talk about?

Like, when I used to work at ESPN, I was always amazed. When I first got to ESPN, I remember telling our program director, I said, you guys treat Pittsburgh like Los Angeles. like nobody cares about Pittsburgh outside of Pittsburgh. Like the Steelers are big, but I'm like, but that company was based out east. So when I got a job there, my takeaway was I'm going to be the representative of the West because nobody at this company talks about anything Denver West.

And so I'm from here. I have history here. And now the teams out here are rolling. Denver's going to be great. Arizona's going to be really good. The Rams are really good. The Raiders, I think are potentially, and I've kind of rolled my eyes at the Raiders for the last 15 years, but there's a lot of people that I respect that love the Raiders.

Your teams have to win. New York's teams are garbage. The Knicks are a mess. The Nets are a mess. The Jets are a mess. The Yankees are good. The Giants are a mess. You got to win more.

I mean, the bottom line is Philadelphia 76ers keep underachieving. Washington teams from basketball to football are kind of a mess. Win more. We'll talk about Miami, by the way. I spent a lot of time talking about Miami. The dolphins are interesting. The heat win a lot. So win.

Let's have California team stunk, I would never talk about them. Yeah, really the only teams that we talk about that don't do Lakers. Winning are, well, yeah, but they won two years ago. Like, they won the championship two years ago. And they're the biggest brand easily in a sport we talk about. But they are always interesting. And the Cowboys.

Who are the biggest brand in the biggest sport in America? They're the biggest brand in the world. Yes. And the whole planet. Yeah. They are the biggest. So outside of those outliers of the Lakers in, and the cowboys, you got to win.

Listen, it's also something that's happening, which everybody else has to admit, is that as entertainment and sports have converged, it's really attractive. Silicon Valley is based in California. The connections this state can provide for athletes. Kevin Durant has multiple investments still in Silicon Valley. They have made Kevin Durant is going to end up one of the richest athletes if you count as investments.

So the reality is, as entertainment, tech, and sports have converged, this is the best state for it. So, yeah, that's part of it. And that's why we talk about this all the time. When it comes down to a bidding more, Atlanta or L.A., Atlanta's great. The Braves are great.

It's Los Angeles. You just get more endorsements and more opportunities. It's the reality of the world we now live in. Hour three and a Friday. Coming up in Los Angeles. It's the hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and

friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network, On TikTok.

On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.