The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Number 1 guys

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

Previewing the NBA playoff games this weekend Colin talks about the NBA playoffs and the drawbacks of having certain players as the team's number 1 option   Guest: Ryen RussilloSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Ryan Rusillo in a few minutes. Paul Pierce, who's apparently walking across America, is joining us third hour. It is great to be here today. It is absolutely amazing. Tomorrow's headlines today by J. Mack in what has been crazy. Underdogs winning, Rogue Teams winning, NBA flaps would be fantastic. We were just talking about that as a staff today. What a gift.

What a gift. March Madness was fantastic, but nothing like this. This has been three weeks. I mean, I don't remember the first round quite as nutty. The beginning of the second round is nuts. So I was watching. So last night, you know, I watched about seven minutes, and I'm like, yeah, this isn't going to work without Steph.

And I was looking at the stats this morning about the Warriors without Steph offensively. At 37 years old, he is still so valuable to this franchise. The Warriors, even with Steve Kerr and Jimmy Butler and Buddy Heald and Draymond Green, The Warriors without Steph are a firework show that only has sparklers. There's no big burst at the end. Anybody notice that Jonathan Cominga got off last night? Why? Because Steph didn't play.

Right? With Steph, you've got to play off him. So Jonathan Cominga, without Steph, is, hey, I can get buckets. With Steph, he's like, where am I supposed to be? And some of it is just so visual. They are not a fun team to watch. without Steph Curry. He is just so much fun to watch. And again, with Steph Curry, they are a symphony. Without Steph Curry, it's open mic night. Anybody got a funny joke? Bring up props. It's like

14 Warriors played in, I think, the first half. Throw out your best line. Anybody got anything? Hey, lacrosse guy, bring the stick, whatever. So it's just two different teams, and they're just not, visually appealing at all without their 37-year-old rock star here is Steve Kerr after it's not as simple as you know Steph's out so we just replace him with one person the domino effect of Steph being out led to trace plane tonight because we need the scoring we need the finishing and then you saw what he did out there same thing with JK you know we had found a formula over the last couple of months and obviously we're having a lot of success.

But without Steph, the formula completely goes out the window, and we've got to figure out the next formula. Yeah, I mean, they are, again, it's a symphony with Steph, and this was LeBron and his prime. This was the difference between LeBron and Kevin Durant. LeBron's on your team. He

is the system. Kevin Durant's on your team. He's a bucket. You can put him anywhere. Doesn't have to bring the ball up. Doesn't have to have the ball in his hands. Feed it to him in the corner, three seconds on the clock, he'll get you a bucket. That's not a knock on him.

That's the difference. Steph Curry, you have to play off him. I used to say this about Tom Brady. Part of the reason the Patriots were so lousy at drafting wide receivers was Tom Brady's fault. Tom had no patience. If you were not able to figure out the playbook and develop trust, not interested. Go ask Julian Edelman. And once Tom got trust on you, he demanded it the next.

week. It's not like you got a badge or a ribbon from Tom, and then we're good. And it's the same with Steph Curry. That's why Kaminga, when Steph doesn't play, Kaminga's like, I can get a bucket. When Steph plays it, okay, where am I supposed to be? And Kaminga starts feeling, he starts thinking too much. He does not work. So, I mean, it's just, I think we all love Steph Curry, but last night, they are just not visually fun to watch at all. their movement, it just doesn't look good. With that, my buddy Ryan Rusillo, the ringer, Ryan Rusillo podcast.

So as you well know, Draymond has been part of my little deal, right, the volume, and I've told you before, coachable, because of Izo and Kerr barking at him for years, he takes to- And coward. Yeah, and coward. I'm very, you know me.

I'm rough. He's very coachable, great employee. But last night, you know, did go a little bit into the victim thing and I've said Bill Ambir, Dennis Rodman and Draymond chose this path. I don't want to hear you complain about it. It's the wrestling heel. You'll get famous and rich. So this morning I'm like, listen, Draymond, bro, you're not going to get this is who you are. Where do you land on it? I think you've been incredibly fair and supportive of Draymond throughout any of these controversies, maybe suggested as a voice of reason.

But I watched the game last night. You know, I watch all the Warriors games. I like watching the Warriors. I like what he's brought to this team. I think he's super important because over the years, I think they've been passive personalities and you always need one wild card and somebody willing to mix it up. But he can be at times delusional about this.

I think he hit Nazaree on purpose last night. I think he hit Van Vleet on purpose in the other game. I even would suggest he tried to kick Tarisen and the nuts and then kind of somehow didn't. and I thought last night was really bad because anybody else would have been thrown out but the acceptance by the officials of his behavior has actually turned into a benefit for him.

It's almost like your friend it just constantly screws up and nobody even gets mad at him anymore. So he's held to a different standard and I think it's a standard that's much more accepting and excusing of his behavior. I thought last night was really bad because your team absolutely needs you.

After the 13 and 0 start, they played him fairly even, even though I would agree with you was a tough watch. And it felt like he wanted to get thrown out of the basketball game. And it felt selfish. I think there's a moment there where it becomes really selfish. So as much as I've appreciated him and know how important is to the Warriors,

he at times can be very odd in how he looks at how he's handled. I mean, he was on T&T right after the Jordan Pool thing promoting a movie. And it all sort of worked. And then I remember I think he did a Taylor Rook sit down where he was more concerned about the release of the video without ever sounding like he was accountable for the act itself. So this isn't exactly new, but there was a moment last night where they had to get him out of the game after this tech was called on him where I thought, does he want to be thrown out in a moment without Steph where his team desperately needs him to stay in the game because they're just out of players. You're a Boston guy and you watch more NBA than anybody I know, except probably people that are employed in the league. So I'm going to throw that I have defended Tatum.

But I want to say, I know you're going to laugh at this, but I have. I've said this. So here's where I've defended him. The star of this franchise was Danny Aange and to Brad Stevens. The roster construction's insane. It's like they have a cheat code in the league. Like they have like eight guys that can shoot past the ball. Tatum is a collaborative personality. Even when he didn't play in the Olympics, Ryan, it was like, well, that's part of the journey.

I don't think Kobe would handle it like that. So their whole thing is threes. Not a closer then because it was different than what Kobe would do. All right. Okay, all right. I just want to follow along here. Sorry. So, so he is so collaborative that if Kobe or MJ were on this team,

they'd be like, yeah, I get the three-point thing. I'm getting a bucket. That's not who he is. He'll beat guys off the dribble. Step back to shoot a three. I think the organization is a little bit in his head because he wants to be a team guy, and he wants to, and there were moments in that game.

I'm like, dude, they need a bucket. Stop the threes. And I think he almost is punished because he's so collaborative. Hey, it's all threes here, even though they've been 11 for 11 on dunks. So my defense is,

this three-point analytic absolutism I think gets in his head. Am I crazy? No, I don't think you're crazy. I think you're hitting on two things that I think are really important. For whatever reason, our basketball evaluation is shift into

does a guy just take a million shots and, you know, stick his chest out? And if he does, and if they go in, even better. But if they don't go in, but we know that he wants to take him, like, that's cool. That's some MJ Kobe stuff right there. And Tatum has not closed in the playoffs necessarily like that, despite having some huge playoff moments. But, I mean, look, we've got LeBron getting criticized for years because he threw some nice passes at the end of the playoff game

and it made the right read. Right. So I think whenever you're looking at Tatum, you have to understand that he really is their point card. I mean, what he did last year in the finals, and I also hate this part of it, like when you don't win the NBA finals MVP and you're supposed to be the best player, like Steph got dogged for years because of that, because it was somehow like against it that he was willing to defer.

I mean, everything that happened that was good was basically because Tatum is setting up all this stuff. He was a point guard on offense and a center on defense against the Mavs last year, has an NBA championship, five Eastern Conference Finals by 25 years old, and the problem for Tatum is that he's just not one of the four best players in the world. Right.

He's at three top six MVP finishes, but he's never going to be Yokic. She's never going to be Luca. You know, he's not SGA. He's not Janus. I think Brunson is a better closer. Steph is probably more important. Certainly when you look at the rest of the roster, it's a hell of a lot more fun. You know, maybe we get to one or two more guys.

But, you know, the anti-tatum part of this is very strange. And maybe it's a Boston thing. And look, I'll admit, they looked unwatchable in both of those games, and his 45-3s that then 48 hours later do basically the same exact thing. I like, there are no neutral parties with the Boston Celtics and history plays part of that as well, but Tatum has never said anything. Like, he can't even be offensive. I mean, he's so, like, mellow about everything.

It's, he's really easy. He's the antithesis of, like, this look at me part of it. So it feels like he deals with a ton of hate. Maybe that's just the cycle of, like, hey, I get to just smash the guy who I don't like in the NBA because most of these guys are going to come up. short in the playoffs. But I think the playmaking part of him, Colin, that

you're talking about, like that's the greatest growth. That's the part of his game that I've appreciated most this year. And yet we want him to just, I guess, close a lot stronger. The problem is, look, everybody else is missing threes, too. So I haven't liked his shot selection. I think he makes

it really hard on himself at times. I think he's getting switches that they fight to get because they're very hunt-happy team with the way they approach their offense. But look, There's a lot of players that would wish they had his resume as being the best player on a team that's really competed late in the season. So I'm going to throw this theory out is that we've had a lot of upsets and a lot of underdogs winning. And this is one of the things I have said.

I like Maniletics, which is analytics, but... There we go. Right. I mean, it's acknowledged is a pretty good line, right? I mean, come on. Okay. So my... It is.

It is. So I said, now this was a little bit of a cheap shot. I said Jalen Brunson is work boots. Jason Tatum's a little bit of leather loafers. If it rains, probably deciding in their pair of shoes. But the league has decided, we're going to swallow the whistle. It's better for the ratings. It's better for the antagonism.

It's a better watch. And I think it is. Well, analytics don't quite work as well when the league is like, you know, we're going to officiate the playoffs. Completely different. And I think it plays into the Knicks. So when you watch basketball, it's like football. If an officiating crew said, we're going to allow a lot more holding, it would benefit the inferior offensive line that has to hold,

is that the officiating in these playoffs, I don't know if Boston can win four games here. The officiating doesn't it play into New York style? Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, anytime you can be a little rougher with it, I mean, oh, G's a beast. I fall in love with that guy throughout the playoffs. But like McHale and Hart, when they get Tatum or Brown,

like the other two guys, Tatum and Brown are so happy they don't have OG on them. They just go at those two guys. And I'd say they'd win the physical part of that. You know, the funny thing about Brunson is, you go through evaluating players and like I wouldn't want a small guard like this being my number one option. I mean, that's kind of other than Isaiah. It's what history has told us. And yet I think small guys, his footwork is.

so good. He's so good at getting free. He's a better closer than anybody in this series, but he also gets rewarded, although this has not been a free throw thing for Brunson whatsoever. Seltics has done a great job containing him in game two, so that's nothing really to do with it. But I think smaller players can actually get away with just murdering dudes defensively because the press are just like, hey, that's your problem. He's a lot smaller. But I don't think this is a rough thing. I do not think this is a ref thing. I think Minnesota lost game one because it was a weird game and they're going to run through that. I think Oklahoma City did something they would never do

and they did it in the night where Yoko Chata 40 and 20. Cleveland isn't healthy right now. So there's a lot of stuff when it's a 6-0 start for the road teams in the second round of the playoffs where I think we're forcing us to try to find a way of why this could be different. And maybe it is different. But this next Celtics thing,

I don't really think has anything to do with the officiating whatsoever. Because the Celtics in the regular season were 4-0 against this team and they made more threes. And now they're 25% through games, one and two in an area where they're supposed to be able to play five out, and have five guys you're worried about defending at the three-point line. That is the entire design of the Celtics roster,

and it has not done any of those things. So I don't think, especially when you're taking that many threes, it's necessarily a whistle thing. Okay, here's here. We'll close it with that. This is an NFL thing, and we haven't prepped on this. But I was saying earlier to defend Belichick, I said this. Oh, yes.

Yeah. So the NFL told Bill, your old, combative, and you're grumpy. And Atlanta was the only team that gave him the time of day. And so Bill said, I got the message. So look at what Bill's done. Young girlfriend, college campus, went on ESPN and told funny stories.

Bill seemed collaborative. What a good teammate. He's a good guy after all. I don't blame Jordan Hudson for her ambition at all. It's a moment in time for her. but I have never felt like Belichick's a college guy. He was a terrible drafter. He didn't watch college football on Saturday.

So my take is this thing was never going to work. He's going to be out of here in a year. And all this turbulence was totally predictable. What do you make of it? Okay, but the defense of Bill in that is what? That this is him remaking himself? Yes, he's rebranding himself. It's inauthentic, but people do it all the time.

he wants to appear more current. But I mean, I joked earlier that it's surprising he didn't go to Coachella. He's trying to be young, collaborative guy now instead of old combative guy. I mean, all his moves are young people moves. I mean, you're a Boston guy. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Boston guys are pretty open-minded, right, in forgiving, not judgmental, not envious.

Look, I don't really know what the hell's going on here. I also probably would caution just because, you know, who knows, if I'm 70, you know, just banging out podcasts, be like, oh, that person finds me attractive. That seems weird. I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be super critical of it. I think the part that's just weird is that, you know, Bill liked a tight ship in Foxborough. And he's done it, he's done it arguably better than anybody has ever done it, okay? And I've given him, look, I don't know how many times we have to sit here and keep giving Belichick credit for this incredible run and doing something in the league where it's just not. not supposed to happen, right? So I think we're all on the same page with all that stuff.

But he, you know, it's funny, I was talking to one of his former players yesterday, and we were talking about like the living part of it. It was like when you were younger and you were on your first contract, but it was pretty much understood you were living in the greater Foxborough area. And, you know, when I used to live in Boston back in early 2000, I know it's a lot nicer now with the crafts investment in the area. But that's not a place anybody who's like fresh off a college NFL rookie contract. It's like, Adelboro, awesome. He didn't want players living up in Boston. He didn't want to So he wanted you to be all about football the entire time.

And to see him kind of pivot into something that can lead to distractions, criticism, outside noise, that he's done a very good job of paying attention to and both ignoring publicly. It just kind of runs counter to how he thinks an organization should be run. Like, hey, we are all on the same page, same thing, none of the nonsense. And it feels a bit like he's invited in some of the nonsense because, I don't know, maybe he's a lonely guy. And, you know, there's something about those two that we just don't understand.

from the outside. Yeah, it strikes me as a bit of the late Bobby Knight who preached discipline and then had no personal discipline. And you're like, Bobby, the messaging is getting cluttered here where he was always like, you know, he'd scream at players if they, hands in the wrong spot. And it's like, Bobby, you're throwing chairs at people. Like, slow down. And I do think Edelman said this.

He's just like, the whole message was no distractions. I would say Carolina at this point if it was a movie title it would be the distraction. The whole thing is a... Yeah, you know it would be great too as much as we all love college ball too, like let's get the season started. You know, and maybe none of this will matter,

but I'm a little surprised that somebody that's been this media savvy despite his willingness to share, because you're right, like this past year at ESPN, I thought the same thing. I'm watching him. He's jovial. He's having jucking it up with the boys. You know, it's like, this feels a bit like, hey, I need the public to see this personality, this side of me that I've hid, I think for strategic reasons.

And even if I would say sometimes, I think it was just pettiness. But once football starts, maybe this won't matter. And here's what we know. Here's what we know. They get off to a good start, Chapel Hill, no one's going to care. Right. And if they're two and five, everybody's going to blame this relationship because that's what we predictably do every time we have a chance to point at the thing that's different as being the reason.

Ryan Rosillo. It's the ringer. He has a podcast. He's been covering the league forever at Ryan A. Rissillo. I don't even know what your middle name is. Is it Adam? What is A?

No, we haven't decided yet, so we just... Oh, all right. I didn't know. Usually I know my friend's middle names. I'm very personal that way. I care about it. Do you? No. You might remember, like, strangers' birthdays,

but friends, middle names? No, not really. All right, buddy. Good seeing you. As always. Thanks, man. You bet. Great podcast.

Yeah, that was always my knock on Bobby Knight. I used to talk about that. He absolutely demanded discipline and had no personal discipline. It was screaming and cussing and throwing stuff and yelled at rest. It's like, okay, messaging's a little cloudy here. And I still contend Belichick's going back to the NFL if offered a job. I thought Philadelphia was the spot, but Siriani hoists a trophy, so that's done. My other one is Buffalo.

is if Sean McDermott gets bounced again early, at some point you've got to ask yourself, what are we doing here? Rinse and repeat. How about another one? Miami. He's got a place in Jupiter, Florida. Not a good job.

Owners not very good. Beating the Patriots twice a year. No quarterback. Come on. It's a sinking ship in Miami. Jalen Ramsey and Nyriek Hill wants out. He's not going to. Buffalo is interesting.

But does the girlfriend want to live in the cold or does she like the warm weathering south? I don't see that as a, maybe that could be a temporary relationship. You don't think wives or girlfriends have a say in where they, you guys sell them. I'm not going to get into that space, but I don't think girlfriend equals wife. Yeah. If you say so. I've been married so long, I don't know. By the way, I got the NBA line tonight.

There has been some movement. Okay, okay, okay. Let me guess. Don't tell me what it was. Cabs Pacers. Cabs Pacers, you already told me I forgot. It's Cavs by three and a half. Cabs minus five.

With their three guys expected back. Okay, I still think I like the Pacers. And Oklahoma City's moving up against Denver. What's that line at? Five and a half. I would take both home dogs. In the points. I don't know if they win, but I would take the points.

Yeah, I just, you know what? You don't have to bet every game. Keep the powder dry for maybe some. Caleb Clark action starts next weekend. I don't know. These NBA games, just too crazy, man. In L.A., it's the herd. One more herd?

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called,

Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to us. We're the first people to do podcasts. A pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. J-Mack, I've been telling you about this.

Mm-hmm. Yep. Two things. I've been taking these magnesium pills before bed. Sleeping like a bear. They work. Big gigantic magnesium pills. I don't care what the internet slew say.

That stuff works. Yeah. Second thing, you know, I don't have a hobby, and I decided yesterday what it's going to be. Ceramics. How did you come upon ceramics? That's what my wife asked. I don't know. Like pottery?

Yeah, I just, my son had a class in college and did it, and it was, he loved it. He's like, you know, working with your hands and figured stuff out, and he sent stuff, and I'm like, oh, I like that a lot. So I'm going to be taking a class. I'll give my wife a shout out. She's been doing pottery. And what does she think? And she, like, won a contest. Now, I'm trying to get her to sell some. You know, we get some extra income. She's like, no. So we now have it around the house, some pottery. It's kind of cool. And she enjoys it.

Yeah, it's like, you know, that movie, Ghost with Patrick Swayzee, Debbie Moore? There was the pottery scene in there where they're doing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's like, you know, pottery. I don't get involved. I'm not into selling it. I just, I need something. I need, I need, I'm not a car fixed guy. The staff is beside themselves now. I need something to get my hands dirty. Okay, how about this?

Let's play some basketball. Dude, way past that. Tennis. Again, I do enough sports. Pickle ball. I'm over it. I'll come up with some stuff because I don't know that you're really built for ceramics. A lot of patience needed there.

You don't have much, my friend. Jay Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. Let's just started with Ryan Rusillo's favorite player, Jason Tatum. Man, he's under fire for playing poorly in the first two games, specifically the fourth quarter in overtime.

Tatum eight points on 2014 during that stretch. Talking to the media yesterday, Tatum vowed for improvement heading into game three. I give them credit. They've been playing well. But on the flip side, it's just taking ownership and knowing that you've got to play better. And, you know, I will.

You know, guys work really hard on their game and in craft and prepare to be in those moments to hit open shots. And it just hasn't happened the last two games. But you know, you can't lose your confidence. Hmm. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Not take Happy Hour?

This stuff is massively overblown. Jason Tatum is a star. The Celtics are going to be fine in this series. And I'm a Knicks fan. Maybe I'm pessimistic Knicks guy. But I'm just telling you, this is Jason Tatum guy. You keep mentioning the Olympics where he couldn't get off the bench. You know who was playing ahead of him, right?

LeBron and Kevin Durant. Two of the top 50 players. 40-year-old LeBron. In the history of basketball. Couldn't beat him out. LeBron, James. No, he's still playing an elite level. And I looked up player efficiency ratings.

You love stats, Mr. Maniletics. The only small forward, the last three years, better than him in efficiency are LeBron, Kauai, when he's healthy, and Jimmy Butler. Three guys who are amazing historical players. Old guys, and he can't beat them out in Paris. They're veterans. How many times have we talked about?

about it. Veterans are always going to be better than young guys. Timmy Butler took the heat to the finals twice. Not in the Olympics. By the way, I have some beef with you. Butler is a two? Yeah. He took the heat to the finals twice. He's a one. He did take the heat to the finals twice. Yeah, listen, I think this is in the

West, he is not a one. I'm reluctant. In the West, he is not a one. So I was on a text chain with two of the producers yesterday. I know they're cringing because I, listen, all this, I see Nick taking shots at Tatum. He's closer to Paul George, you know.

Listen, Tatum, given his accolades, what he's won at the age of 27. He's getting closer to Kobe than he is Paul George. The guy's already got a title. He's going to be four straight first team all NBA. I'm sorry, I got to cape up for Tatum, man. He's getting way too much heat for two bad games coming. I know we'll all be watching Saturday night. Hopefully you'll join me at the old 900. Saturday afternoon?

They're going to be a boozy afternoon for you. Liquid lunch watching this. mix. Choke it up. Let's go to the next story. Yeah, NBA. We're going to the Cavs Indiana series. Listen, man, I'm stunned here.

I did not think the pastures would be up to nothing headed home. Obviously, Cavs needs some help. They're optimistic about Darius Garland's toe, Evan Mobley's ankle and D'Andre Hunter's shoulder. Yeah. They need reinforcement badly. Tide Jerome, who I believe is like one for 19 on three's in this. Remember Tide Jerome during the season?

Yeah. Yeah, playoff basketball. It's a different animal. Tide Jerome can't handle it. I kind of sort of think this series is open. I think this series, I don't care that Cleveland's getting all these guys back. I think Indiana right now is playing with a ton of confidence. They're playing at their pace.

They're playing cleaner. Now, obviously, Mobley. I mean, Cleveland's got a better roster. Yeah, Mobley defensive player in the year. Yeah, no, no. I mean, it's, but I'm just saying, good luck in Indiana winning both those games. I think we're going back to Cleveland, and it's going to be 3-1 Pacers.

Hmm. I don't think you're winning two games in Indiana. Better chance to come back from 0-2. Cavs or Celtics? Both have home-Celtics. Yeah, agreed. Final story, Colin, oh, you're going to love this. Yesterday you hated Bleacher Report's top quarterback list.

Everybody did. But Warren Sharp, he's been on the show. Good dude. He listed the most clutch quarterbacks dating back to 2020. based on estimated points added per dropback. So it's very stat heavy. The most clutch quarterbacks in the league going back to 2020, Joe Burrow number one,

followed by Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Tom Brady makes that list despite not playing as many years. Drew Lock. Patrick. What Drew Lock is 13. Now, here's the thing. There is, you have to qualify by having 50 attempts. So, for instance, Brock Purdy's not on this list because he did not,

he doesn't have as many attempts. attempts. He didn't have that many attempts. Yeah, Purdy did not qualify due to the numbers that Warren Sharps using here. Your boy, there's a lot of guys here. I don't, sorry. I'll take the top five. Everything else just doesn't work for me. I know what I see. You're more of an eye test. Matt Stafford, Gino Smith. Who you're taken? Buck 40 left, one time out, 68 yards to go. I will take Matthew Stewart. Okay, there you go. Nothing against Gino, but who you didn't? Matt Stafford. or Dak Prescott, who you take?

You know, come on. So Kyler Murray checked in at number 24, not clutch. Trevor Lawrence, 30. Jalen Hertz, 37. Now, to defend Hertz, they win a lot of blowout, so there aren't many close games for him. A guy who will be on the list next year, who just missed because he doesn't have enough qualifications,

Jaden Daniels, boy, he was amazing in clutch time last year with the Red Worth, Washington. They won almost all their close games. He doesn't have enough. He doesn't have enough attempts because he was a rookie. Jack Prescott's a bit of a surprise. If I said to you right now, give me the three quarterbacks in the NFL.

Buck 40, one time out, on the road, need a touchdown. Give me the three quarterbacks you'd take because they're right in my – they pop right into my head. No order. Burrow Allen Mahomes. I would have Stafford at 3A. because you get the coach you get the coach coach count I mean Lamar should be in there because he's

well and I love Lamar but his I would say I would do the same I would do Mahomesboro and Alan Josh can beat you so many ways yeah but I would have Stafford real close to it because you get the coach you get Andy Reid and Mahomes you get McKay and him now I think I think Stafford

Layton games is magical and a lot of it's just he's been doing it so long you can't fool him he's seen every coverage and every blitz yeah Yeah, no, I can't find much to disagree with there. I'm with you. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurdline Pierce. Joining us in studio today. Man, I've got to tell you, we've got a good week of shows. We've had a good week of show. The Tatum stuff is fascinating because Boston guy gets all upset when I'm like, Tatum's not the face of the league. But now Boston guy acknowledges, yeah, it's hard to be face of the league when you're not a team that can beat the Knicks at home twice.

And then face of the league can't even get on the floor in Paris. And so, I mean, I'll say this. I'm not going to plant the flag on this, but this was always my criticism. He doesn't have face of the league aura. We kind of like our face to be a dog. We like him to be a, we like him to have a Kobe, be a. like, step on your throat,

God. So was Curry ever a face of the league? Well, most of his career was in LeBron's prime, so LeBron was. Couldn't you have Curry and LeBron the same way

you had Magic and Bird? No, because Magic and Bird were connected in college. And they were both, it was coastal, and Lakers, Celtics. I just think we like certain things from our

face of the league. And part of it is stomp on you when you're down. And I think there is a a passive, collaborative level to Tatum's game that doesn't feel quite what we like. It would be like being a quarterback and you were a great quarterback, but you were never, you were really mediocre late. Like Elway was defined by comebacks.

Marino wasn't. Elway was defined by comeback. Brady was largely defined by, I mean, a minute 10 left and you might as well just, The Colts, it's over. I thought Elway was more, he loses all the Super Bowls. That was his definition until the very end when he won the back-to-back. But he was the greatest prospect ever. And I mean, he had like at some point 45 come from behind wins.

And when it wasn't a passing league, there weren't many quarterbacks that were known for that. And that's Elway was always, to me, more than Marino. His brand was he was great late. And by the way, Manning's brand wasn't he was great late. It was Brady's. Manning was like great talent, but we never thought, in fact, we thought he was a bit of a teeth clenger. He could never beat Brady early in his career. He was like, come on.

So to me, there is, quarterbacks all of a kind of a brand, something you think of. And I've always said this with Tatum. If you close your eyes, what do you see? I don't see anything. Most great players, I have an image, a go-to move, a dunk, an aura. I don't have anything. So it doesn't mean your Elway had 36 games. winning drives before winning Super Bowl.

Oh, by the way, there's a list I came out with earlier. Apparently it was, it bothered J. Mac. Are we doing that now? Oh, okay. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis.

And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the I Heart Radio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and of course on social media.

That's Cabino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slico Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history.

You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tomorrow it's baseball night in America as Kyle Tucker leads the Cubs against Juan Soto and the Mets or the Giants take on Byron Buxton and the Twins. Check local listings for the game in your area tomorrow at 7 Eastern on Fox. So I was saying this earlier, there are we always. talk about what's a one in the NBA. So you kind of slot players.

I said a couple years ago that if Derek White is your four or five, you're a championship team. If Derek White's a one, you're not a playoff team. If he's a two, you're a playing game team. If he's a three, you're a playoff team and can win a series. If he's a four, you're a conference final or a finals team. If he's a five, you're the best team in the league. And so I'm Jason Tatum is a one, but there is three or four.

or there are three or four components of being a one, which is, are you available? If you're a great quarterback and miss six games a year, I'm not building around you. Are you emotionally available? James Hardin's a flake. James Hardin has a retired jersey in a strip club. I like him as a player, but you can't. Houston tried to build around him. That's well documented, by the way.

That's not me taking a shot. That's like well documented. He's prideful of that. It's funny. It's part of his, like, you know, brand and image. So he's just not Houston thought for years. Oh, he's Kobe. No, he's not Kobe.

Kobe in his prime was a great defensive player. Kobe was different. Kobe was absolutely committed. Hardin's like, eh, I'm not in the mood. And Kobe gave you postseason heroics far more than a bad night. So here, if I had to select a starting five and then one bench guy, for the best number two's in the league, it would be Jalen Brown, Butler Durant, Kauai. Chet Holmgren and Anthony Davis.

Durant, now you have a problem with it. Kauai is a number one talent, but you can't play 40 games, and I can't, to be a number one, I have to be able to build around you. You are the foundation of the house, not a really cool kitchen. You're the foundation.

Which one that bothers you? Well, the Jimmy Butler one, he took two Miami Heat teams to the finals, as the number one. That is incredible. Anthony Davis could not get out of the second round with the pelicans, okay? He couldn't get out of the second round. He, the weaker Eastern Conference, before the Celtics had matured in a wobbly east.

Out west, he is not a one. Okay, I don't think Chet Holmgren yet is a two. Could he be one in three years? Maybe. But if he's your two, okay, see, this list, by the way, is current. So what Butler did three years ago doesn't matter. So that helps your case with? Kauai. I agree with KD.

I've said this about Anthony Davis. He's one of the great twos ever. Offensively, he's inconsistent. But defensively, he's dominant. So my issue would be, I think there's only like, you know how they have the magnificent seven stocks, Apple, Google, all this? I think there's a magnificent

seven ones. There's only seven number ones. Like, Paulo Bencaro, as of now, like... No, he's a one. Can he win a playoff series before we determine he's a one? No, we're different. I can build a franchise around Paula Banker. Okay, but what are you getting anywhere? Halliburton is a one.

I would agree with that. Halliburton is one. Don't give me this. Can you get him anywhere? We don't know that. What we know is he checks as the bank caro. Dog, productive, reliable, and physically, emotionally, every night you get it. I like him a lot. He is a one. So wait, so we don't know what they can do in the future. We can't predict that. But we do know what Jimmy Butler did in the past.

Yeah. But this isn't a past. pass list, it's today. Keep it current. Right now today. Now, six years ago, Durant's won. But at this point in his career, he just wants the ball. I would agree. So what does that

mean? Does that mean Devin Booker is... Two. A great two. He was the next guy should have been on the list. He was either... My bench was going to be Booker, but the staff said you get one bench guy. Okay. Apparently, we're like the Lakers. We only play like five people. That's hard. Okay. So let

me ask you, do the Lakers currently have two ones? Or is LeBron the best supporter? I would argue the Lakers have two ones, but no, two, three, four, five, and six. I mean, seriously, LeBron's still got a one.

LeBron's a one. Lucas is a one. I don't like his lack of defense, but he is a one. Donovan Mitchell has been incredible for several years. He's never been to a conference. He's a one. How is he a one? Do you want me go with a third again? Yeah, he's got one. Okay. Product

Yes. Physically reliable. Yeah. Comes to play every night. He's got dog in him. He does. Sometimes he shoots too much. Yeah.

I think the stat is when he shoots over 30 times, they're like one and eight. You're looking at results in the playoffs. I'm saying do you check the four box? Donovan Mitchell is a one. Boncaro's a one. This is the, you get into this. You're projecting what they'll do in the playoffs. I have box.

It's like quarterback. Production? I don't care about your. playoff record. Justin Herbert's a starting quarterback. What that's, CJ Strouds is starting quarterback. Yeah. I don't care if they've won playoffs. I think the big difference here is you're looking at what they

are. Yes. I'm looking at what they can be. Well, that's just a bunch of rainbow nonsense. Based on stats, though, it's rooted in facts and yours. Yours is all based on stats. So you love Hardin and I never bought into his long. He did take the Rockets places. Now, at this stage in his career, he's not a lot. The club? What

places that he takes them? Because he can never get him to the finals. Listen, that's got to be minimum. Like Joel Embed, I pushed back hard on that. He's never been to a conference finals. By the way, Hardin came off the bench in his only finals. Yes, with O'KC. But he took the rockets far, pushed the loading

Warriors. They underachieved based on predictions and odds every year. Couldn't work with his buddy Westbrook. Couldn't work with the great Chris Paul. Not a lot of people have worked with Russell Westbroke. He's looking now as in the 6th man. Hey, no throwing shade at Russell on this show anymore.

What about you got Tyrese-Maxie? How come he's not the Remember, he started the season as one of your favorite cheese. I wrestled with Tyreek Maxie. I think, I'm not sure. I wrestled with it. But I will argue. And another guy's Evan Mobley. I think he's another guy that it could be a one right now.

He's a two. Again, I only had six spots. Who's the two to Anthony Edwards in Minnesota? Do they not have one? Julius Randall. Good game last night, but I don't think he's a two. Is he? If he's a three, you're set.

So Minnesota lost their two. That's right. So Julius Randall's a one, you may not be a playoff team. He's a two Minnesota. You can win a playoff series. He is a three. Then you're a team that can get to the finals. Yeah.

I like this one, two, three strategy. But it seems like, you know, you're my guy, but you've got too many ones, bro. I mean, I like Ben Carroll. He can be a one. No, he's not there yet. The idea, you think there's only six or seven ones in the league? Just like there's only six or seven elite untouchable quarterbacks. No, I think there's like 25 ones.

Excuse me? 25 ones? And not every guy that's a one can win you a title. You get one team a year. But it's possible that if you have a one and aren't going anywhere, he ain't a one. He's a two. I don't care if the Knicks, I don't care if the Pacers don't win another game. Halliburton checks all the boxes.

Hell yeah. Dog, productive, reliable, physically and emotionally, every game ready to play. Let me ask you some guys. Cade cutting him. He's a one. John Moran. He's a two. That's it.

That's all you got. Well, I was going to say Dame, but he's hurt now. Dame is no longer a one. He's not. Not physically reliable. Rockets don't have a one? And they were the number two seats. No, the rockets don't have a one.

Shen Goons are two. Fred Van Bleets probably should be a three, four. Amman Thompson is a really good two. A potential, yeah. Huh, interesting. So you've probably got closer to 10 to 15 one. Oh, I got probably 20 ones. I think there's a bunch of great players.

Huh? Trey Young. He's a two. Maybe a three sometimes. He didn't play any defense. He's hard to get along with it. I mean, Wembe would be a one, obviously. Wemby's a one.

Cooper Flagg hasn't played an NBA game. Well, let's let's let him dribble in the league once. Can I get an exhibition effort out of him? No, I get a little ball. He's not a one. I don't know what he is, but he's not a lot. I know. He did fun to watch isn't one of my boxes.

Swagged out. He's fun. I mean, he's creative. Hour three. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know... Tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey, Jonas, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month,

tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I'm Joey Dardano, and on my new podcast, Hope From a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to help from Hippocrite Wednesdays on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.