The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Paul Pierce

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

NBA champion Paul Pierce joins the show to share what makes this current Celtics team specialSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to.

Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas on the ice planet, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. All right, here we go. Our number two, Paul Pierce right around the corner.

Never had Paul in the show. I don't think so. Best dressed guy at the network. Live in L.A., it's the herd. Wherever you may be, and however you may be listening, thanks for making us part of your day. Jay Mack and I went out last night. Some chicken wings.

A little beverage. Not too many, just enough to feel good about what we were watching with the Mavericks. Kyrie was spectacular last night With the Waiters took a couple photos of us And Cowherd had to reject the first set of photos Unhappy with them Second said I had to crop out the adult beverages

I don't want to send a bad sign to the teenagers Yeah, the teenagers They think we're home going to bed at 8 It's not the truth We're out there rolling Last night chicken wings Heavy heavy Big night

The kids out there like those guys are upstanding citizens Nah It's not what's happening Okay, so I'm hearing all these stories about Caleb Williams, and I know we tend to in this business, you know, hype people up and get a little hyper. The Caleb Williams thing in Chicago, though, again, you're not being hyper. I said I thought they had the best offseason of any team. They're going to look completely different.

Think about this. The last number one quarterback picks, we went back this morning, the last several, Bryce Young literally did not have a number one or number two receiver and a back. battle line. No talent. The previous number one quarterback to him was Trevor Lawrence. He got a college head coached that never coached in the NFL and frankly admitted he didn't watch much NFL

in a bad roster. Joe Burrow. Horrible offensive line, historically cheap owner, no momentum in the franchise. We didn't know if Zach Taylor could coach. Kyle Murray. Arizona.

Nuff said. Baker Mayfield, Cleveland. Even less needs to be said. Arizona, Cleveland. But Chicago's different. Chicago didn't get the number one pick because they stink. They got the number one pick from Carolina. They stunk.

Chicago won seven games in a good division. So there's players here. Secondly, I think right now they have a top seven or eight. Offensive tackle receiver, tight-end running back situation. So there's no reason to look at this. Even their coach, and I have my reservation, on Matt Eberfluse. I'm not sure yet.

But Brandon Staley with the Chargers was a defensive coach, and their defense was awful. He couldn't get that right. The minute Zach Taylor got Joe Burrow, it's like, oh, okay, he can coach. Now, we don't know if Zach Taylor is going to be Andy Reid or Belichick, but we know he knows offense. You can watch how clever it is.

They move the ball up and down on everybody. And Matt Eberflus, when they got in Montez Sweat, did you look at the last six weeks? of the Chicago Bears defense. It was number one in the NFL in points allowed, number one in the NFL in interceptions, and number three in opponent passer rating. So the minute you got him an elite defensive lineman,

Iberfluse was great. Now, I don't know, these defensive coaches often aren't great with the offensive side of the ball. But I know Iberfluse isn't a fraud. I know he can coach. He knows his side of the ball. Like Sean McDermott, he can drive me crazy. Mike Tomlin.

on the offensive side. But McDermott's a hell of a coach on defense. Defense is always when it's healthy, good. Tomlin's an excellent defensive coach. They always generate a pass rush. So Matt Eber Fluse knows defense. So that's the big question, not talent. Well, can Eber Fluse, well, we know he knows his side of the ball?

We have seen coaches get jobs in this league that don't know their side of the ball. So when people criticize Lincoln Riley, I'm like, they've led the nation in offense the last two years with like two NFL players. Now, they can't figure the defense out, but he knows his side of the ball. It's the first thing I look at. And with that, we've been watching him on Undisputed, and we say, hey, man, if you get time, we'd love to have you on the show. He's a busy guy. He's got to drive out to the valley. But he made time for us today, the 10-time All-Star Paul Pierce joining us in the herd.

Look at Paul, the dapper. Yeah, it is good to see you. Yeah. What's up? What up? You look like you could still play you. Do you ever go out and rec league it a little bit, a little bit? Yeah, I'm playing today when I leave here.

You're playing tonight? Yeah, I'm playing tonight. Now, when you were a great defensive player in the league, that's good enough. Do you defend when you go out and play the night? No, I don't play no defense. Okay. No, I just shoot threes. Like the NBA today, the new NBA, I just go and shoot threes.

You know, when we were talking about this last night, there are some organizations that rise the Yankees and Alabama football and the Lakers. I mean, the Lakers are a flawed roster, but historically in the big games, Celtics have a lot. And I watched the Clippers last night, and I'm like, okay, this is a moment. And it was like the ghost of Clippers Pass to arrive. It was their worst playoff loss in history. So I want to ask you, you played for Kansas, Boston. So you won a lot of games, and those are legendary iconic basketball organizations.

Right, right. Does the Clippers from the outside looking in look like, not that it's haunted, but there's something hanging on the franchise in big, Yeah, I truly believe, and I said this before, I think they got a dark cloud over them. And I think the only way that dark cloud is going to get removed is when they move into their own building next year. I truly believe that. Yeah. You know, they share a building there in the shadow of the Lakers, y'all. You know, you share locker rooms and stuff.

And it's the Lakers building. Yeah, it's the Lakers building. You know, stay crib and you just kind of lease it out. You go in there and hang out. and put you know, then you got to get out and then, but it's always going to be the Laker House. Yeah. So I just think that dark cloud is going to be removed

when they get into their own building. Yeah. You know, because even when I played there, Collin and Jason, I just, it was just untimely injuries, and it just seems like some untimely happens every single year. Now, was the medical staff up to snuff there? Was it as good as the Celtics?

I mean, you. You got all the best of the best. I mean, this is Los Angeles. You got UCLA, all the doctors is coming from over there. You got the best of the best. But it's just like when I was there, Blake got hurt. CP3 got hurt. And now you see every year, see the Kauai or Paul George.

It's just like something. And these are years where you're like, okay, this team can contend for a title. Well, they have an excellent roster right now. Yeah, yeah. And this is a team. You feel like, all right, they can contend for a title. But unfortunately right now, Kauai is dealing with injuries, and it just seemed like it's the same song every year.

So I just feel like when they get some new energy in a new building, things are kind of refreshed. So that's just me. That's what I think. So I have defended Darvindham on this, is that the Bucks, the Lakers, and the Sixers have superstar players. And it's not a coincidence. They've each had three coaches in six years.

So in the NBA, the star player grumbles to his agent. The agent calls the media and says, coach lost the locker room. Right. But the truth is, Malone went seven years without winning. The guy in Oklahoma City couldn't make the playoffs for three years. Yeah. Is that when I watched the Lakers play,

I think it's a flawed team. Rui didn't show up for two games. DeLo's hit and miss against the Nuggets. And the only player I could depend on offensively late in the games was usually Austin Reeves and LeBron, whereas they got Porter and Murray. and Yoke and KCP is one of the most under-red dudes in the league. I saw a Laker team that played their ars off.

They played hard. Yeah. Now, when you look at them, what do you see? They just don't have enough defensively. We always tend to look at the offensive prowess between, you know, A, D, LeBron, and teams. You know, the first thing we always look at in the stats sheets is the scoring. All right. Well, I'll tell you one.

I'll tell you one stat. And this is about the Celtics, because we have to talk some little. Jason Tatum went four for nine, played over 30 minutes, and they won by 30. You know why? Because they can defend. Yeah. And yeah, they're more talented. They're deeper and everything.

But defense wins championships. And the Lakers just didn't have a consistent enough defense or reliable defense to where they can get stops down the stretch because they got the guys who can. score to win ball games. And so when you don't have that dependable defense down the stretch, I mean it just seemed like every game was the same, okay, you play for stretches of defense. You have moments, but you just couldn't put nothing consistently together. And so the talent was there. Is it the coach, somebody's the scapegoat every year? Right. You know, it can't be the coaches every time. It's time for the players to start looking in the mirror.

So it's interesting. We romanticized. Somebody once said this, and I thought it was a, I forget who said it. They said a lot of the athletes, the way they treat people, you'd never want him as a boss, like Michael Jordan. He's hard to play with, but we romanticized that. Like Kobe could be rough to play with. If you read the book, Three Ring Circus, Kobe was a lot to deal. Yeah.

So then there's Jason Tatum. he's a nice guy everybody likes him and I watch them and I think if you look at most NBA champions I mean Shaq and Kobe were they were killers they're out there and by the way KG

Paul Pierce you guys dogs dogs and then you look at Boston and you're like Jason Tatum's a nice guy and part of me is like do you have to have that get me the ball get out of here because I think Tatum likes to share

Yeah. Likes to help, likes to lubricate the offense. He doesn't always want to take the big shot. And that's when I watch him, I think, do you have to have that? I think he has it. I think he has it some way. Maybe we don't see it all the time.

But when I go back and I look at what you did last year to the Sixers, and when I'll go back and when he has that, what, 40, 50-point game in Philadelphia, And then I go back and it was a huge game. It's a swing game. They lose. And then when I go back and I look at that game seven in Milwaukee, I mean, you can't tell me that's not kind of like dog games. Just because he don't come out as a rah-rah type person. You're not a big trash guy.

You know, not a big trash-talking guy. And, you know, he just don't come off that way. When he talks, it's kind of like subtle. Right. Soft. Yeah. So, you know, that's why we kind of build him with that, you know, personality-wise. But I've seen some dog games where I was like, I mean, he had 55 an All-Star game.

I mean, you've got to have some type of drive competitive. I know the All-Star game is not as competitive as it used to be. But you've got to have a mentality to go out there and do it. And so, but they have some guys on the team like that. Like, I mean, Drew Holliday, dog. Jalen Brown. Oh, he got it. He's feisty.

Yeah, so, you know, I wouldn't call that a knock on him because he's shown in big moments he can come up big. Yeah. So we like to say that markets don't matter. But if you go to, when I grew up, the first face of the league was probably Jerry West, L.A. Magic, L.A. Bird, Boston. Michael Jordan, Chicago, Shack Kobe, L.A. Tim Duncan was never the face of the league. No.

No. Braun is the only small market guy that's been the face of the league, and he was a star coming out of high school. Yeah. The chosen one was his nickname, right? So it's interesting. We say markets don't matter. But, you know, I look at the NBA right now, and I'm thinking, who's the face of the league? Now, first of all, you have to want it. Yokitz doesn't want it. No. So you have to want it. And then I look at Ant, and I think, well, he wants it, but it's Minnesota. You know, it's not that they don't want it, Colin. It's who? gravitates towards you. You know what I'm saying? It's who are the people gravitating toward that you can say Janice, Joker and B. Tatum, all these

guys are the best players. Yeah. But the people who choose the face of the league, that's who the people gravitate toward. And right now a lot of people are gravitating toward Anthony Edwards. Yeah. They're like man, you know, when you see him in his interviews, man, he talk like me. He's just a normal dude. He's saying, uh, he's looking at his own highlight. He's just he don't come on. He's coming on real

authentic. Right. I mean, he got the flare, the personality. He's got the game. And right now, you just see the kids gravitating toward that. I think John Morant had a chance, but then went sideways personally, whereas aunt is all basketball. It's all basketball. You don't have nothing to say really about him outside

of it. Oh, whatever. Girl stuff whatever whatever but I mean people like now I can relate to him I can grab man he just Just the way he talks it feels like he's talking right to you yeah you know and it's interviews yes It feels naturally real yeah like when he's sitting there with with Carl towns and he was like man You need to just stop foul so damn much like you know you know he's just like oh that's how people talking to the gym yeah that's like at the gym and you relate to that and you gravitate toward that. So he's on this way.

You know, it can be telling him, you know, I mean, just personality-wise and charisma-wise, Anthony is checking all the boxes. Yeah. Paul Pierce joining us for our radio audience, the finals MVP, the 10-time NBA All-Star. I want to go back to your Boston days because it was really, I'm a believer outside of LeBron and the Celtics, usually, that the baking in the oven is better than the microwave.

We think you can just go grab All-Star. But really, Denver was baked, right now, Oklahoma City baked. You guys, LeBron, he wins everywhere, and you guys. So all these experiments, Barclay and Pippin went to Houston didn't work. The Sons didn't work. Brooklyn didn't work. You guys worked, and you were big personalities. Yeah.

So I want to know why. Because Ray Allen had to go from the one to the two or the three. Yeah. Why did it work in Boston? I think we were just old and desperate. All of us had been to all-star games and had money. It had money. I mean, we're like, what else is left?

I mean, we're old. I'm 30. KG's 31, race 32. We're like, man, come on, we got a win. We didn't accomplish. We'd have scored the ball as many points, shot as many three, defensive player at a year. Kevin won that year, but he won an MVP.

So it's just like, man, we don't got a lot of time left. We, you know, Docs, he laid out the plan. Really? Yeah, he laid out the plan because we was on the duckboat. We took a ride on the duck boat before the season started. We jumped on and rolled around the city. Just us for us for us for. By the way, people that don't know this, if you've never been to Boston, they have duck boats everywhere.

Yeah, everywhere. And they can drive and then they go into the water. And it's a big thing in Boston. It's a huge thing in Boston outside the clam chowder. But we rode the duck boat around the city so people can see us, waving at us. He was like, all right, Casey was like, you think we can win this year? He's like, we got to win it this year, the first year. Because usually it takes time to kind of get to know each other.

He was like, what do you think our window is? He's like, I think we got a three-year window because y'all old as hell. You know what I'm saying? He said, we got a three-year. And that was our window. Thank God we won it the first year because the next year Kevin got hurt. And then we went back to the finals in 2010. And so that was our chance.

we said we can probably get two out of three that was our we said this how many you think you can get doc you said we can if we can squeeze two out of three your legends yeah and so we got to the finals but as you all know we we wasn't as the healthiest team but it was a good run you know for the shorter

period of time and you know if we got together a little younger like four or five years earlier we could have been sitting on the dynasty it was really interesting though because and I felt this with the heatles a little bit is that I did feel the guys liked each other, which is not easy. Because in the NFL, offense and defensive players, they don't even practice together

a lot. In baseball, a third of the rosters in the bullpen. In the NBA, there's a small roster. They're all in the same restaurants. Like, if you don't, one guy can screw up a locker room. Absolutely. And it was like, you went three years and you guys were. Or one girlfriend or one wife can screw up a locker room.

Oh, I've heard stories. A lot of things has to go right And it didn't Yes Yeah I mean I think because Me and Garnett was already friends

We knew each other since high school Okay So you know I think we just left Our egos at the door And Ray's chill And Ray's chill And Kevin already knew Ray

I didn't have a relationship Prior to To Boston with Ray But Ray's respected Yeah And so when we got there The good thing is We talked every day on the phone

Damn near When the trade happened We was on three-way call Like when we're gonna get the Boston, let's start playing. What's up with y'all? We're talking like every week, every other day. Wow.

Right out the gate. Okay, so I said about the Phoenix Suns, because boy, I whiffed on that. I had him in the Western Conference finals. I am going to the finals before the season. When they made the trade, I predicted them in the finals. So I'll make the argument that Vogel actually, he's great with Biggs, and they didn't give him a great one, and he had no point guard. So it wasn't built.

It was a Mike Dan Tony roster with Frank Vogel, the coach. So be that as it may. I do think the Knicks are a, you don't want somebody to take the ball to Jalen Brunson's hands. Kevin doesn't. You can give him the ball with five seconds left and the shot clock.

I think I'd move Kevin, Keith Booker. Now, I'm not being anti-kevin, but I think Chicago to get past the Minnesota, O'KC, those teams are only getting better. Denver, Boston. They got to make a move, right?

What do you make a move? The KD to New York idea. That's a great idea, and you don't want to take the ball out of Brunson's hand, but I'm not sure he really fits that New York mode. They're grinders. Yeah, they, like, if things go south with KD, and we already know how he is when people start talking bad about him, and if the New York media jumps on him, he's not going to like that.

You know that. Oh, I know. I mean, so if there is a player, and you have to have, some more star power. I think maybe... Paul George. He defends. He defends.

But then what do you do? You play him in Ananobe. They kind of like the same position, but I think you do need another guy to take pressure off Brunson. I mean, he's playing hard minutes, long minutes. They're asking a lot of him. Maybe if Katie's willing to take a step back. I think he is.

Yeah. He doesn't want to be the leader. Yeah. Yeah. You want this game. You're going to be 27 a night. That make it work. I mean, that makes it work.

We were talking about this how I think the NBA, with all these small market and European influences, I think the league needs New York. So go back to your, I mean, the Celtics and the Knicks are rivals, but the Celtics just have dominated it. Yeah. But when you played in the garden, did it feel different? It definitely feels different. You feel like, it feels like I'm in the, this feels like the garden, actually. You know, it's dark on the, you can't see the crowd, but the stage is lit. No arena does that.

You know, there's no other arena. I can think, like, the stage is like a stage is lit, and the crowd is dark. And it's just like the spotlight's on you. Did you play well there? I love, I always play well in New York. I got a few game winners. Do you know, I got a nice little collage of game winners in the garden. They never get old, do they?

No, I never get old. I love playing there. Just slapping Spike Lee on the hands. watching him and discuss. Oh, man, you gotta love it. I know. I love watching the game at the garden. Hey, man, it's a real pleasure to have you.

I know you're busy. Yeah, man. No, that's great. I'm glad we had a chance to sit down. I'm just out of here a talking head with gray hair, but you've been really nice to me, and I appreciate it, man.

No, it's all love. It's all love. The legend. Paul Pearson. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Hurd to listen live or on demand

whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person

Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Paul Pierce, that was great to have him on the show. Kansas, Celtics, year two with Eclipse. They can play for the Wizards one year, didn't he? I think one year with the Wizards. A J-Mac with the news. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. I'll start with the Celtics, who were an easy winner over the heat last night. I think they hit seven threes in the first quarter, and, you know, I basically turned the game off. It avenged last season's conference finals loss. Jason Tatum had another monster game. He said it shows how the Celtics are learning from their mistakes, and the win was necessary for Boston's maturation as a team. Not mentioned, Jimmy Butler missed the game.

Terry Rozier missed the game. Jaime Hakez, the former UCLA kid. who had a good series. He was out, so, like, I don't put any stock in this beat down. Well, yeah, I mean, if Jimmy Butler, if they're not the kind of team, they don't have enough good offensive, reliable players. Bam gives you a team, you know, if he's not. I mean, the Celtics don't need Porzingas,

and they could drop 120 points. Well, in the east. They don't need them against the Nuggets. Yeah, but I mean, Jalen Brown, Tatum, Derek White, you could get to 115 without Porzingas. No Jimmy Butler, no team. It might be the regional connection, but when I'm watching Boston in the series,

they're winning every game they win by like 20 plus. They remind me of Yukon from the NCAA tournament, how Yukon's just steamrolling people. It's just like they're loaded. And next up would be Cleveland or Orlando. Oh, they'll run through them. Well, we said before the playoffs, they need to either sweep or gentleman sweep,

everybody in the east. I thought Philadelphia had the personnel to make it uncomfortable. The pressure would all be on Boston. I don't think New York, Cleveland, Orlando. They just don't match up. And I think whoever comes out of Philly, New York, it's a pretty draining series. Boston's going to be rest, no close games. So, I mean, Boston's like, the better team, more rest, not as dependent on one guy.

I think they would take care of it. New York had went a home game, and that's about it. You know, I'm looking at the lines. It was eight Pacers yesterday. It's down to five. I wonder if somebody got win that maybe Dame will give it a go or Janus, so that bears monitoring. I think we both thought if Janus played four games, they'd win this series. He hasn't.

So it's Indiana's series. That's not really an upset. If you don't have Janice and Dame, that's not an upset losing. Next up is the New York Knicks tonight. Big game against the Sixers, Colin. I know you're fired up. But people can't stop talking about the potential of them landing a superstar this offseason. and now they're being linked to Devin Booker.

Remember, we had a wager this week. You had Booker getting traded. I had KD. But the report reveals the Knicks have been interested in Booker for several years. And New York would be willing to offer almost anything to pair him with Jalen Brunson. And as another note, one of our guys here realized that Nick's president, Leon Rose, used to be Devin Booker's agent at CIA. Booker is not Clay Thompson, but he can catch and shoot it. Oh, he's better than Clayton's.

Well, no, I'm saying in terms of... He doesn't need the ball offensively. He's not going to take it out of... He's not Luca. He's not LeBron where that would get in the way of Jalen Brunson. You can put him on the wing. He can catch and shoot it. And that's the kind of guy that fits with him.

And he's also in his prime. So, like, we talked about this. You think the sons are in big trouble. You could get a haul. I just... I can't see Phoenix trading a guy who they drafted and is, like, their franchise guy. You want him to be your Steph Curry. You want Devin Booker in Phoenix forever.

I don't see why you would trade it. Right? Don't you? To get a haul. You get a haul for Kevin Durant. The real question is, are the Knicks willing to break up the Villanova guys? Apparently, Devinchenzo is the only guy they're willing to trade. Nick's fans, at least.

Josh Hart, everybody loves him, obviously. We love our Villanova guys. We do. Devin Chenzzo shot it poorly. He was kind of benched in the fourth quarter for the Kim McBride. I feel like he's a tough guy. He's a tough guy. He can get hot, hit some three.

Yeah, did he hit like seven threes in the Nattie? No, no, I mean, he's a, he feels so East Coast, so Villanova, so he's like a perfect Nick. The Knicks have, I don't think they've been this interesting this century. I'm sorry to Carmelo Anthony. Even the Jeremy Lynn moments were very short-lived. This is like a real team people are excited about it. Yeah, and they've been, then I can say this, James Dolan has stepped back, and he's letting, maybe because he trusts him, he's letting the basketball people do his thing.

And also James Dolan, he created the sphere. So that was his attention for several years. So, like, James Dolan has moved out of it and lets his basketball people do it. So I don't look at them, like I looked at him five years ago, and it felt like he was more involved. And that's nothing against him. I just don't love owners breathing down a gym and a coach's neck. The best owners, Robert Kraft, hire the Hunt family. Hire a coach, get out of his way.

Now, vet the coach, make sure you hire the right coach. But I think the Knicks now feel well constructed, and the owner step back. He's letting the basketball people do their thing. I like where they're going. Assuming they win tonight win the series, it feels like they are a player away? Yes, yes. Is that okay to say? There are one player away from winning the title.

Yeah, nice wing player away from winning the title. And just to be clear to all the haters out there, if Kevin Durant comes to New York, it's still Jalen Brunson's team. He's the one. KD's the two. He's the quarterback. I just want to make that clear for some people. Now the question is, how many rotational players do you want to get? give up. I give up draft picks. I don't care.

Yeah, they've got like four or five. Yeah, the Knicks chemistry is excellent. You can't just start shipping out Josh Hart's left and right. They're essential to this team. So you've got to get somebody who comes in and understands, hey, this is Jalen's team. We need you to score 25, but it's kind of Jalen's team. I think KD would accept that.

KD didn't go to Phoenix, wanted to seize control of the team. He wanted to win games. Final story, Atlanta Falcons. Colin, we are going to talk about this frequently. People are probably getting worn down, but I'm just, they were obsessed with trading up in the draft, not just getting Pennix at 8, but they tried to get back and they went to the Jets trying to get into the top 10 after the Pennix pick. Yeah. According to Steve Weish, who has been an Atlanta fixture forever, the Falcons were targeting UCLA's Latu.

He's the best pass rusher in the draft. He was. I like him a lot. There was some medical red flags, but this is interesting. You mentioned earlier that the Texans last year went for Will Anderson at work. So the Texans' feeling was if we have a left tackle, we have weapons. If we get the quarterback and an edge rusher, we got the four boxes checked with our coach. Atlanta, the same thing. They got panics, and they thought, if we can get Latu, Latu, who didn't go to like 15 or 16 to the Colts, if we can get him, we're ready to go.

So you saw the Vikings also did a similar thing. They got their quarterback. Then they traded up to get the kid Turner from Alabama. And, you know, Falcon, sorry, Vikings fans are not thrilled with that because they gave up draft capital. A lot of draft capital. But to your point, listen, if you hit on the edge rusher, you can have holes all over your roster. Cincinnati had a bad old line and got to the Super Bowl.

The Rams weren't good at safety or linebacker and got there. If you are good at, coach, quarterback, left tackle, edge rusher, and two weapons, you can get to a Super Bowl. Will Anderson was a top five guy. Like, he was a slam dunk. Well, Will Anderson is better. Turner and Law 2, I don't think they're in that class. But I think Law 2 is really good.

I think Jared verse is really good. I think, yeah. Chop Robinson, I don't think he's in that class. Penn State Kid. Yeah. J-Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Herd Lie News. Got a lot of stuff. Got a little, hold on. The iPhones chirping of journalism. That's what we do here. It's what we practice. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m.

on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Hey, this is Tom Verducci from Fox Sports, MLB Network, and Sports Illustrated. And I'm Joe Madden, and we're going to be around to talk a little bit about managerial decisions and what may have occurred into the dugout, maybe in the 1980s. It's the Book of Joe podcast. I can't wait for this, Joe. We're going to dive into what goes on in the dugout and behind the scenes in Major League Baseball. Cars, whined, whatever else we want to talk about.

Yeah, well, there are no boundaries, right? Listen to the Booker Joe podcast on the IHeart radio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered. with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at a podcast.

I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what? went down and tried to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack,

so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth.

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have really. real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. On baseball night in America, Pete Alonzo powers the Mets against the Rays or Julio Rodriguez and the Mariners. Take on the Astros. It all begins at 7 Eastern on Fox. Check for the game in your area. Show is flying by today.

here's a rumor Lakers rumor an executive says LeBron James would prefer Ty Lou as his head coach quote That's his guy So Yeah Ty Lou and

LeBron went back and forth I mean Ty Lou is confrontational so he won't get pushed around But Ty Lou only has one year left on his contract You can trade a coach Jason Kidd got traded for a couple of picks Pat Riley got traded I think next to Miami For like a first round pick you can do it.

It's doable. It's not illegal. But I don't think Steve Balmer would allow, even with one year left at $7 million, would allow his franchise to be embarrassed going into a new arena. But five NBA coaches have been traded. My thing

when it comes to the Clippers and Ty Lou and LeBron and the Lakers is does Ty Lou want to remain with this circus? So, I mean, it's just really crazy. And I said this earlier. When you have these big cities like Chicago, New York, and they have two teams in the same sport, there's always a big brother and a little brother.

And even though there was an eight-year period when the Clippers made the playoffs seven times and the Lakers in that period only made it twice and you had Lobb City, Ballmer's much richer than Jeannie Bus. The arena's going to be spectacular. It'll probably blow away crypto arena. the truth is it won't matter. It doesn't matter. Alabama will always be bigger than Auburn, and Michigan will always be bigger than Michigan State. Nick Saban was at Michigan State.

Michigan was still bigger. It didn't matter if Auburn beats Alabama, when Cam knew. It doesn't matter. Alabama's always going to be bigger. This is a Laker City. It'll always be a Laker City. And, you know, Ty Lou could be the head coach of it. The truth is the Clippers roster top to bottom has more good players.

It's more even, more wing. defenders, which are crucial in the NBA. But it's also got more drama. The Lakers don't really have a lot of drama in the organization. They don't. They had Westbrook. They moved off him. The Clippers are constant drama.

Paul Pierce talked about it earlier. The Lakers don't have drama. They don't have enough defenders on the wing, and they need to get like another star player at Trey Young. But my question with Ty Lou is, how long do you want to coach this? Because there are organizations. You go look at the Jets in New York. Even when the Giants have been down.

for 10 years, and Jets can't take advantage of it. I mean, the Yankees had a terrible season last year. The Mets were a tire fire. So you look at these situations. The big brand, and I don't know if it's, a lot of times it's, there's finance behind it. The bottom line is when the Lakers and the Clippers go to negotiate local cable deals, the Lakers get top dollar and the Clippers don't. That's why Ballmer saw that immediately it had to bring in stars so we can get a better local cable deal.

but I they're there it's just whenever you go to New York, L.A., Chicago, and you get two teams, it doesn't matter how, I'm trying to think of an organization, I mean the White Sox won a World Series in the early 90s for an hour they

they, but Chicago, the Cubs are in Wrigleyville, it's considered a cooler place in town, they're the cooler franchise, they have Wrigley Field, which is considered, you know, the better of the two stadiums and they'll always be the better. Was there ever a time, the The Mets had a moment.

The Keith Hernandez teams, Lenny Dykes, they had a moment and the Yankees were down in the 80s, but it always reverts back to the Yankees. Because the Yankees are a better asset, so they'll get a better ownership group, they'll get a better cable deal, they'll have more money, get better players, and eventually those better players will hit. That's the Lakers. They're going to make much more money on a local cable deal. They're going to attract, even despite Steve Ballmer, they're going to attract more big-time free agents.

So, I mean, Anthony Davis could have gone either place. Anthony Davis was steered to the Lakers. LeBron could have gone to either place. LeBron chose the lake. I mean, remember, when LeBron chose the Lakers, they were a bit of a mess. For many years, he went to the Big Brand. When Harbaugh, I know he went to Michigan, but Nick Saban could have gone to Auburn. He chose Alabama.

The reality is, big brands almost always rebound. USC's been down for a while, but Lincoln Riley didn't leave Oklahoma for UCLA. He left it for USC. The big brands always, always end up back, pivoting back on top. I just wonder, Balmer has so much money. I think he's a wealthiest owner in the end. He is, he is. He's just going to pay Tyloo, whatever.

Don't go to the Lakers. Here's an extra $5, $10 million. He can do that. No, he can't. And he's going into a new arena. He can't go in there with a 30-win team. You think it's crazy on this, but the Lakers, they don't want dead, like, cap money on coaches.

Like the Cowboys, it doesn't matter. It's a rounding error. People don't understand this. The difference in money in the NFL, to sign a player, you have to have money in the bank in the NFL. The Raiders are a poor franchise. The Rams are a rich franchise. Jacksonville's a poor

franchise. You think the Giants are rich, but the Mara family is not even close to Stan Cronky. Not even close to the Allen family, Jody Allen in Seattle, and all that Microsoft money. So, Steve Balmer could buy and sell Jeannie Bust and the Lakers seven times

over. So for her to have a seven for Steve Ballmer to say here's another five you make $12 million a year. Lakers couldn't do that. They don't want to get rid of coaches and have to, you don't want to be paying three coaches. The Lakers are not as cash rich as everybody thinks. And fans tend to think, well, everybody's doing the same salary

cap. No, it's not. A couple years ago, the Rams had a receiver. They went and got Alan Robinson. It just didn't work. Whatever. It didn't work. It just wrote a check and got him out of town. When they had Gough, paid him, and then paid Matt Stafford. About five teams in the league could have done that.

Just written the checks, we don't care. Staying Cronkey's one of the few. So I think fans think, well, it's all the same salary cap. No, it's not. You've got to have that money in the bank. No, it's not. The Cincinnati Bengals don't have nearly the money as the L.A. Rams. But in terms of brands, the Lakers,

again, Paul George is a nice player. LeBron's a legend. Kauai is a nice player. AD's better. So if you take the four players that could have gone either way, A.D. LeBron, Kauai, Paul, George. The two best chose the Lakers. A lot of that is Rich Paul.

The brand is better. You're going to sell more shoes as a Laker than a clipper. It's just a reality of it. And people can bag on LeBron and the Lakers. That's fine. They want a championship. Kauai Leonard has not been to the finals with the Clippers. He's never healthy in the playoffs.

I mean, go look at the track record. So people can bag on LeBron all they want. He has a chip with the Lakers. that's something Kauai is not done. He's got a chip with everybody. Everywhere he goes, he wins titles. That's like what he does. Yeah.

Paul George, Kauai Leonard, I mean, I know Kauai won in Toronto, but since he got to the Clippers, there's no other way to say it's been a disappointment than what they've accomplished in the playoffs, which is hurt every year one or both those guys. Yeah, it is. It's not as even as people think. I hung out this weekend with a friend of mine, Steve Kime, And, you know, a lot of this stuff doesn't make the air. But there's, you know, a lot of backstories I get that can kind of fill in information holes I may have about there is a gigantic gap in owner.

Oh. Capital. Yeah. And like he is Steve Kime, I asked him who's the best one organization. And he said, Baltimore is the standard. Yeah. Or did he have in Arizona? 30th or? Well, I would not going to get into that.

But he said there is definitely a bottom six to seven in the league in terms of the capital, the maturity. You know, people forget this. If you are working at that bottom six, seven, you don't have the quality of scouts the Baltimore Ravens do or the Kansas City Chiefs do. Yeah, I mean, there's bidding wars for scouts. The best teams have the best scouts and the best for not. They pay more. So like the Chicago Bears, I'll be honest with you. Cincinnati Bengals, they can be cheap.

You don't get the best. That's why Ryan Poles cross your fingers. He looks like they found a young star. Brad Holmes, Detroit, found a young star. But people forget this. We always look to the GM or you look to the quarterback. If you look at losing operations, it is overwhelmingly there is one thread. It's the owner.

There's a reason the Steelers always draft well. and the Ravens almost always draft well. And the Rams now almost draft well all the time. Green Bay doesn't have an owner, but they've got such a strong culture. They almost always draft well. But you don't just develop a culture overnight. That's got to be built and ingrained over years and decades.

And it always comes from the top down. You need a philosophy. If you don't have one, you're not going to succeed. Culture's not built by players. I would argue it can be built. McVeigh proves it can be built by a coach. but a lot of what Kansas City Kansas City's been good,

rarely bad, mostly good, now great. Well, it's the family. It's upstairs. By the way, do my Jets have a philosophy or anything close to one? Anything resembling one? A culture?

They're trying to build one. They've tried for a long time. Without one, you just spinning your wheels. That's why I have Buffalo winning the division again. They do have a culture. Hour three coming up next. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guide,

Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not.

not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to and learn the hard. way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.