The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Rachel Nichols

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Colin talks to NBA analyst Rachel Nichols about the biggest issue in the NBA that people haven't recognized Did the NBA overreact to Kevin Durant going to the Warriors?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's hour two, all fired up live in Los Angeles. It's the herd wherever you may be in, however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Just flying through shows. Rob Manfred, baseball commissioner on yesterday, baseball season. Weirdly, you know, kind of starts tonight and then with the tournament. So it's weird. I don't remember that being the case where usually you would start baseball yesterday.

So I don't love, like, opening night necessarily being on March Madness Night because I want to watch John Calapari and Duke in Arizona and whatever. I will say there's a story this morning that the Cleveland Browns with the number two pick will not take Seder Sanders. Adam Schaefter says they're probably going to get Abdul Carter, who's a super good player, excellent kid at Penn State, probably the second most gifted player in the draft to Travis Hunter. And this is not a shot at Schefter. could be a smoke stream. You get lied to a lot in the last three or four weeks before the draft. I've been told that for years.

But what is interesting is if Kevin Stefansky did pass on Shudur Sanders, now, Aaron Rogers dropped in the draft and so did Dan Marino. It can happen to anybody. Lamar Jackson. It can happen to anybody, right? So, but he is a pocket quarterback who's accurate and won't be very expensive. That is what Stifansky. wants. So if it's right in his lap and he doesn't take him, that does make you wonder if

there's a real. And then after that, the Patriots don't need, the Giants could use a quarterback. And if they passed on him, like, what are we looking at here? Maybe New Orleans goes and gets him. So my take on Shadour is to be that accurate with no running game and a mostly abysmal offensive line for two years is really hard to pull off. 74% accuracy is really hard to pull off. It'd be one thing if you're Will Howard at Ohio State and you've got two first round receivers, two running backs who will get drafted early and above average O line.

That's a different ball game. It's different if Quinn Ewers did that at Texas. We're talking bad O'line, no run game, 74% completion percentage. That's damn impressive. So yesterday Julian Edelman talked about what he worries about. with Shador Sanders. My number one thing with Shador is, can he break down the protections? He's not a mobile guy.

He's a pocket passer. We all keep on saying he's a pocket passer. So for me, if I'm a general manager, if I'm a team, I want to see how good he is with his protections. It's ultimately going to come down to the offensive coordinator he gets paired up with and that relationship and how he handles protections. Okay. So, again, I like him.

more than I think draft people do. J. Mack and I don't see him plummeting in the draft, but Marino did, and he's an all-timer, and so is Aaron Rogers. He's an all-timer. And I've said this. There's only two guys in this draft who I think are, would be great in any draft. Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter. I do think there's only one player in this draft that will turn around a franchise, and that is the kid, Cam Ward, who would go to Tennessee. I think he would start and be a dynamic player. I don't know if Shadur is that.

Could Shadur be more Gino Smith? He's accurate. He sits in the pocket. Good guy. When he gets a decent coach, he can win games, maybe get you to the playoffs. That could be his comp. I mean, he's not Joe Burrow.

He's not running around like Lamar, Josh Allen. He's not that. But he is a pocket guy. But pocket guys, golf succeeds. Burroughs mostly that. Gino got to the playoffs. He's mostly that. Okay.

So we said they called the dog days of summer in baseball, which starts tonight, take out the Tokyo Series Cubs Dodgers. But it's a little dog days in the NBA where teams like Boston and Denver and Cleveland that have roster rhythm for several years, that kind of reducing minutes. Lakers are a different ball game. Austin Rivers, LeBron, and Luca played 12 games. Got a Brooklyn feel a few years ago. They just haven't played basketball together.

And they're very clearly not the same team when LeBron's not on the floor. And with that, we bring in Rachel Nichols, Fox Sports NBA analyst, doing that since the early 90s. and she is now joining us. How can you be covering the NBA that long? So I started. So I started. Exactly. I started as a child.

No, I started in college because what I got to do as I went to Northwestern, and I was a stringer for the Washington Post, and I got to cover the 90s Bulls as a 19-and-20-year-old and just kept going since. So it was been a pretty great ride. You and Mike Greenberg. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he was covered him too. Exactly.

So we said this about the Lakers. You watched it last night, is that LeBron's first half, was by LeBron standard. Three quarters, rough. Maybe it's worst half ever as a pro offensively. Yes. But I do think they're in a weird spot. They could get to a two seed.

They could also fall to a playing game. They play the Rockets Thunder Warriors at Chicago's tricky. That team can shoot. I look at him and I think to myself, they have to play hard the rest of the way. Yeah. For sure. Absolutely.

Look, the offense is still working itself out. They completely changed the way they played once Luka Dachachich came into town, which is exactly what they should have. done, but it takes a while. I am not worried about the offense. LeBron is still working his way back from injury. They're all still learning how to play together. They are going to be fine. Teams pick their poison with Luca. They have to decide what to do. And usually teams end up blitzing him, which leaves someone else open and he's a great passer. So they will figure it out offensively. The issue is the defense. And frankly, we had Rob Polinka sit up on the stage when Luca

Donchitz was introduced and tell us this, not that we didn't know, but I'm saying even the Lakers understood that once you trade away AD, you have a front court defensive problem. And they were not able to fix it before the trade deadline, and they are going to try to fix it this summer. But there is a limitation of how far you can go if you have that kind of hole. And it's great that they played so well defensively in the weeks after the Luca Dantia trade. But that required 150 percent effort from every guy, every minute on the floor that is not sustainable. And it was also more of a swarming, sort of switchy defense. guys figure that out the more tape they have on you.

It's leaving a lot of guys open and leaving themselves open to exploitive matchups. And by the way, they're letting guys shoot threes right and left. That's going to bite you in the playoffs too. Yeah, it is. For the record, Jared Vanderbilt didn't have to score last night. He's still wildly valuable. Sure. Like, Jared Vanderbilt is like wildly important for this basketball team.

Jackson Hayes, I mean. Yes. You know, it's interesting. I got an NBA guy who I have deep respect for. Tom Tolbert texted me yesterday. He said, hey, be careful about your cynicism of OKC. He said, here's stats that are really important. They lead the league in creating turnovers and are last in committing them.

Huge. Which, by the way, shows you a maturity, which is beyond the years of a team. They're a smart basketball team. When you talk to people in the league, because I have questions about their young players in road playoff environments, what are the people around the league think? Oh, they think they're for real, for sure. And look, there is the fact that this group of guys has not gotten past the second round. And therefore, when the bright lights come on of the conference finals and the NBA finals, are they going to be able to match up against the teams that have so much experience?

I mean, the Boston Celtics, I mean, they've been in the finals, what, three of the last four years? I mean, it's just they're playing against teams in some cases that have a lot more of know-how of how to do those situations. That being said, number one overall offensively, number four, defensively, this is a team that knows how to play together. been playing together a long time. They have an excellent coach of the year coach. And they are ready. They have the MVP candidate. I mean, they really feel like they are ready to make a move. And people around the league have an enormous amount of respect for them, especially since the rest of the West, as you've just pointed out with the Lakers, it's a crap shoot. Yeah. I mean, in the East, you can say, hey, the Celtics and the Cavaliers, they've really separated themselves. And anyone else would be an upset. Nix or third and they don't match up with those teams.

Right. Right. Anyone else, if they made it to the conference finals, it would be an upset. You can't say that in the West. I would, you know, right in the Thunder, just because they deserve that respect after what they've done this season. It could be one of what, six teams opposite them. A lot is going to depend on the bracket and who they face in the conference finals, the Thunder. If they do make it there as we expect, that's going to determine if they get to the finals and can really make it on that stage. So when Adam Silver showed up on the show, and I really like, I can do Adam once a week. I think you're so smart.

I did push back. I said, you guys get so paralyzed by trades. Memo. Everybody loves trades. Love it. By the way, they're fun. Show Hey, Angels Dodgers. Yes, it feels lobsided. Look at your numbers. Yes. So my take is I'm watching KD last night. He's auditioning. He's unbelievable. And by the way, he wanted to make sure Boston knew. Mm-hmm. I can score on your defense. And your defense is unbelievable. He's averaged 37 a game, shooting 60% from the floor in the last three games. So, and it's interesting about,

the playoffs. Not only do I love the playoffs for their intensity, but they do show you very clear weaknesses of the Knicks or the Bucks or the Lakers. I think KD. Now, Jay Mack disagrees. I think he's going to have a huge market of really good teams. What do you hear? I completely agree with you. Sorry, Jay Mack. But, you know, look, you and I were two of the people who 10 years ago were saying, man, Katie's game, it's going to age well in this league. And guess what? I mean, it wasn't stunning insight, but we were right. Kevin Durant is still extremely valuable to have. And there are, of course, a lot of people back analyzing the trade with Brooklyn and saying that Phoenix gave up too much for him and they did give up a lot for him. But the fact that it hasn't been

a more successful run there for Kevin Durant has really largely been about the Bradley Beale trade. It is about how handcuffed the team has been in his time there because Bradley Beal was a quiet. and his salary and his no trade clause and the lack of flexibility to build the roster around KD and Book the way they need to be built. And Bradley Beale is a great guy and he is a good basketball player. I think his skill has been sort of shaded by all the contract stuff around him. He is a good basketball player. He does not fit with Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. It doesn't work. And in fact, not only just moving him to the bench, which they have done, when he doesn't play and he's out hurt right now, this team is 13 and 3 when he doesn't play and the other two do. Prior to

to lose into the Celtics the other night, which of course most people lose to the Celtics these days, they were four and oh, including beating the cavaliers without Bradley Beale. So to me, one of the big questions of where does KD go this summer, it could be the Miami who wants him. It could be the Rockets who want him. However, maybe there's a voice of he could stay in Phoenix if they can get Bradley Beale to accept and want a trade and another team to want him with that deal. But Brad said some interesting things recently. He said, in the middle of the season, there's too much going on. I didn't want to do a trade at the deadline. He said this summer, you can lay everything out and get a better sense of what you want and where

you want to go. And if Phoenix is messaging him right now, we are not playing you. At some point, Bradley Beale wants to play basketball. Sure. And so he is going to look around a little more than he has the past couple years and say, okay, maybe this team wants me and I want to go play for them. if they get that flexibility and freedom, I'd be curious at least what the possibilities are. And they're few because they've traded away all of their draft picks. But they're few if you could keep Kevin Durant and Booker together because I do think they play great together.

Yeah, the, you know, I was watching Cooper Flagg plays tonight. And I was telling people, you're much younger. So you remember some of this. And being on the East Coast, you remember a lot of it because I was a West Coast kid and loved the Big East. Pack 10 basketball didn't care. I was a big east. Me too, Georgetown, D.C. Girl.

Yeah. Basically, if you're 20, if you're under 35 years old, you don't remember what college basketball and the NBA used to have this symbiotic relationship. You had about nine Cooper flags a year that you loved in college, went to the NBA, and were really good immediately. It did well. Now Cooper Flagg is an outlier where, like, could he be a second team,

All-Stars? And he may be in the East if he landed somewhere. Yeah. is that last year's draft was wildly international and nobody can name the first eight players drafted. I mean, the NBA, do you think the NBA, and it's kind of a theoretical question, but I think it's so fascinating because he is so good.

Do you think the NBA realizes deep down that they thought they could do it with themselves with the G League? And part of this ratings regression, it's not politics. We need college basketball. is our feeder system. Look at the ratings for women's and men's March Madness. It's crazy. No, it was great in those days for the NBA. The problem is they don't control it. You know, they could possibly, they're talking about lowering the age limit again back to 18. They could possibly decide. I've always said, why not make it 20? As long as there is a feasible

route in the G League for guys who are turning 18 to make money because you don't want to impact these guys' ability to be professionals. The rest of the world gets to work as late teenagers, and 18, 19, 20-year-olds, you don't want to limit these guys' ability to earn a living. But if there is a route for that, it doesn't have to be the NBA where they earn a living. If there is a route for them to play professional basketball both internationally and here in the U.S., and you raise the age limit to 20, you would get more developed players entering the NBA. You'd be able to scout them better because you can see guys like Cooper Flag coming a mile away. But there's a ton of guys who maybe were scouted one way and they turned into another way.

I sent it to Coupo. Nobody thought he was going to be him. No one thought that Nicola Yukic was going to be who he's turned out to be. So there are still guys who, if they had another year or two to develop, especially in college, American players, you'd be able to know who they were more and they would be delivered to the NBA as more developed products. I am in the minority. I am the only one I hear saying raise the age limit, don't lower it. But that is how I feel in terms of that question you just asked. So I proposed it this week that there are solvable and unsolvable problems. The NFL had the concussion issue. It was solvable. Pay attention to it. Don't roll your eyes at it. Right. And change the rules.

Steroids, solvable, more testing. And then there are unsolvable issues. Football is a violent game. Guys get hurt seriously. That's just the way it works. I think load management is a bit more solvable because the young players like playing. And also, we're not going to give you awards unless you play a minimum

out games. I think tanking is unsolvable. I think it is the unsolvable issue. Because in March, if I can get Cooper flag, nine of my guys have a chest cold. Yeah, interesting. You can't. I'm sorry, but the league,

if you look at the greatest players ever, they've often ended up on teams. San Antonio was planning on Wemby three years ago. Yeah. So. I mean, look, tanking is not solvable. You are 100% correct. Because look, the spurs,

how they ended up getting Tim Duncan, was that David Robinson had an injury, and then he just seemed to have an injury the entire year, and then they got Tim Duncan, and the next year, Tim Duncan and David Robinson played together. Man, that's amazing. So it's not solvable in terms of we're done with it. But I will say the league has gotten itself into more trouble

because of the way the contract situations have worked out. And they've made efforts on the other end. They've tried to flatten lottery odds. But the truth is that in 2016, because ownership around the league didn't like that Kevin Durant went to the Golden State Warriors, they invented the Supermax. And the Supermax was supposed to get guys to stay with the teams that drafted them more. The problem with that, though, was that you had uneven situations around the league

because you had teams that just weren't in the right draft at the right time. And guys, your team and owners felt bad about that. So then they created all these aprons. There's the first apron. There's the second apron. Guy Fierry is apparently managing the NBA. I mean, there's all of this stuff that restricts teams and movement and trades and all of the other things,

that the only really viable way to start from scratch and rethink your team is to tank. And in fact, Matt Isbiyah, the owner of the Phoenix Sons, just gave a really good interview, and he talked about, hey, we are never going to do that here.

We are never going to clear the decks and tank. We want to win every year. We are going to try to win every year. And that's great, and fans applauded it. Everyone around the league in every front office you talked to, guys, we're sort of sending me quotes, sending me quotes from that article. Ha, ha, ha.

new owner syndrome. He doesn't get it yet. Doesn't he know? It's literally the only way to do it. We saw it with the Houston Rockets a few years ago, and now they're number two in the West. I mean, we've seen it over and over. So the league has contributed to creating this problem because owners want to stop themselves from overspending, and then it's not fair over there. It's not fair that way. It's not fair that way. It's not fair that way. It's not the league office's fault. I think the ownership has to take a look at itself in the mirror at the situation that they have put themselves in

and why so many of them have to tank and then have terrible ticket sales for a couple years in a row. I mean, it's just cyclical. Yeah, by the way, the last three minutes of Rachel Nichols, it should be played over and over and over because that is the truth in all of this. And I said to Adam, when he was on the show, I said, Adam, you're paralyzed by trades. Kevin Durant and the Warriors were the highest rated team. Of course. You couldn't turn them off.

Yes, it made people briefly uncomfortable. So did Shaq and Kobe. Shaq and Kobe made people uncomfortable. For the record, Michael won six MVPs and went six and six in the finals. Bill Russell, as the league was being formed and popularized, one-11 titles. Dynasties, Yukon, women's, and men's basketball, they're not the worst thing. No, they're popular. Dynasty sell, casual fans get invested in them, but it's not a front office issue. Adam Silver can't solve that when he has owners around the league at the owners meetings saying,

And that's not fair. That's not fair. Let's make a new rule. That's not fair. The other thing that made Katie work in Golden State was Steph was on a cheap deal because of his injuries. It was such a crazy confluence of events. It was a complete confluence of events. He shouldn't have been under that contract.

The salary cap blew up in a big bubble the way it's not going to this time around. They're going to distribute the TV money more evenly over the years. There were so many things about Katie going to the Warriors that were not replicatable. And yet, they made all these rules. And then all those rules created new problems, and then that's now created this problem. So, again, I don't think you're ever going to solve tanking, Spurs, David Robinson, Tim Duncan. But I do think that they have gotten themselves into this pickle more, where it is the only route now. And that is creating an issue for fans who want to watch good basketball games.

I mean, you watch some of these games right now. And it's like you can't even pick out. There's so many two-way guys on the floor, you can even pick out who's playing. That's why I watched the Celtic Suns last night. Tatum's actually hurt, which he's never hurt. But it was fun because it was like KD was playing like he was showing off to the league. Well, the sons have none of their own first round draft picks until 20, you know, through 2031. So they don't have to tank.

They can't tank. It doesn't help them at all. Helps the Houston Rockets. So they're going to put it all out there in Boston's getting ready for a championship run. But there aren't that many of those games right now, Colin. There are the games the other way around a lot of the time. All right. Almost professorial.

Just just you should have grabbed a dais, sat up there and told the league how it works. All getting smarter. Thank you so much, Colin. Live in L.A., it's The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a podcast. We're the first people to do podcasts.

A pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. but this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band

before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad

Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey.

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The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me. Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite

therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark, something. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

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Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Again, people, what's really interesting about the world, I talk to this about my wife all the time. People overreact to everything. And I don't even know if I'm built for media anymore. Remember when David Letterman left the late show? because you had Jimmy Fallon doing musical bits and Colbert was talking politics. And, like, Letterman's like, you know, I don't think I'm built for this generation, is that the media now is like headlines this week. The madness is out of March. I'm the wet blanket.

I'm the guy in the country that goes, no, actually, the ratings are up. We never watch for the madness. We watch for Duke and Big Brands in Carolina and, you know, Michigan State and Syracuse and Yukon. Oh, it's like everything now is so overheated. And I think your job as a commissioner or a general manager is not overreact. Right. And so I think the NBA a little bit overreacted to Kevin Durant to the Warriors because it felt unfair and all the owners were upset. They were getting huge ratings.

It wasn't going to last forever. Kevin Durant's, you could feel, you know, by year two, they were getting a little prickly and drivet. Raymond and it was a little explosive. So now you're kind of trapped as a league. You know, by March, you know, seven or eight teams are like, just not playing anybody. And the Lakers can't do that, by the way, as we talked about earlier, because they could fall into a playing spot because the West is deep. There is a lot of talent.

Just wait until next year when Dallas is healthy. And they're going to be, the West is only getting better. Utah is going nowhere but up. Oklahoma City is going nowhere but up. Dallas, when these guys are healthy, is going to be. be a team full of dogs. That's going to be a really good team. Jay Mackle, the news. No, no, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Carlin, let's start with the Lakers game winner last night from LeBron. Here it is.

Luca with the drive bounces off the rim in an incredible putback by LeBron. His eighth game winner, Colin, in his career, tied for second with Joe Johnson. I so Joe, huh? Interesting. Got to be tied with Michael Jordan's number one with nine. Yeah. Buzzer beaters. Kobe also at 8. And you see Paul Pierce, FS1's own Paul Pierce at 7. Did you see this live?

Because LeBron had had a rough game, as you mentioned earlier. No, I saw it in YouTube. I watched the first half. I thought it was awful. And then I went out, and then I watched later. I watched Boston and Phoenix, which was a blowout, but it was a fun first half. Yeah, Lakers needed this one badly. Oh, yes.

And I would expect him to rest. guys tonight against Chicago, a back-to-back. By the way, I know people are like a Lakers defense state. This was their eighth game in 12 days. It has been a brutal stretch because of the canceled games due to the fires. They backloaded it. They're going to load up on that

Memphis game Saturday night. That's a huge swing game in the West. And then they got the Rockets here Monday night out in L.A. So what are the Bulls getting in this game at home against the Lakers? I haven't seen a line yet. By the way, I'm all first quarters for the Lakers. The last two have not cast. I think teams have caught up. The market's caught up with the Lakers. So no need to

bet of those first quarters anymore, guys. Let's move to the next story, and that is the richest man in baseball. Makes his Met debut today. That's Juan Soto. Signed out 15 years, $765 million contract. He's a 285 career heritor, Colin. Did you know that? 201 career home runs, 592 RBI, four-time All-Star.

He's got a perfect swing. Yeah. But $765 million? There will be a billion-dollar contract. Is he worth more than Patrick Mahomes? No. Of course not. Is he worth more than...

Well, they also have... Yokic, no. But they have 162 games. So the merchandising, the seats, that's why baseball can do this. You have so many games. You only have eight home games in the NFL. Yeah. Yeah.

What did you say, Ryan? Yeah. Yeah, Mahomes get another one. I don't think it'll be $765. But the other thing is, because there's no salary cap, Mahomes is going to try to sign teams. friendly deals because he wants to win. Because remember, Mahomes has only been humiliated twice.

Both times in Super Bowls, both times because they were bad at left tackle. So Mahomes, there's no value for Mahomes in taking every penny. It's like, I don't want to get, you can also get hurt if you don't share the money. And baseball, take whatever they give you. So it's to the point where the baseball contracts are so ridiculously large that if your kid is a major superstar athlete basketball, football, baseball, which sport are you telling him to go into, Colin? tennis. What?

Are you not following the tennis lawsuit right now? Like, tennis players are woefully underpaid. I think you've got to steer your kid toward baseball. Now, I don't know about you. I've never signed my kids up for baseball because I personally don't want to sit in the spring when the weather's great for like 90 minutes. By the way, I said that one time and people said, you're selfish. I said, I'm not a taxi driver.

I told my kids, I'll take you to games as long as you care. And then my daughter said, I don't want to be in a van all summer playing volleyball. I said, okay, great, let's go to the lake. I had way more fun going skiing with my kids and go to the lake than you did sitting in a gym in Youngstown, Ohio. Am I a bad dad? Never been to Youngstown, Ohio. I said if you do. I think you could do both, but obviously one has an expiration date.

But, yeah, we never sign our kids up for baseball or softball. And I love hitting the baseball in the yard. It's fun. Playing some cats with your kids. Listen, when my daughter played volleyball, I loved going to the match. Volleyball is quick. It's fun. It's fat.

Volleyball. That's a long day. I'll be spending seven hours in a volleyball gym this weekend. No, no, I did that for two years. Thank God my daughter got tired of it. This is year three. It was the greatest moment in my life. Dad, I'm tired of being in a van all summer going to San Bernardino.

I'm like, right, let's go to the lake. San Bernardino. Final story, Colin, is Yokic, the second best player in the NBA after Luca, I guess. Anyways, he missed five straight games with an ankle injury, and he came back and had that unbelievable assist. And then he just kept going. 39 point triple double and a 10 point win over the bucks. Yokic scored or assisted on 61 of the 127 points. His 30th triple double of the season.

I just beat down. Nuggets look good. Yokic healthy. Look at him. I mean, I'll tell you something. Now, Janice did not play last night. I don't know if he was upset with the dame situation. Maybe he didn't want to get roasted.

Hey, let me ask you this. Do we need to start having conversations? And I'm serious on this. Greatest centers of all time. So Russell's got all the rings. Kareem's got all the points. I'm just telling you, if you're asking me, Yokic Shakakeem,

those guys didn't do this. No, no. I mean, this is the most well-rounded player. First of all, here's Yokech is the most skilled big by a mile over any big of all time. Is it Arvita Sabonis number two? And he's a mile from him. He didn't play his best years.

here in the States. But I think we have to have a real discussion about this. Shack was more dynamic. Shack couldn't shoot. Shack didn't ball handle like that late in his career. Shack couldn't pass like that. Shack, you had semi-commitment. Shack wasn't in great shape.

Shack was falling. No Adonis, okay? Look at those doughy arms. All I'm telling you is this guy is the most skilled, big, easily in league history. You know, I thought it was probably a Laja one because his footwork and offensive skills. I mean, he was... By the way, Akeem gave Shaq Fits. Yeah.

Shaq would tell... I watched Akeem and Shaq go toe-to-to in a series once. I mean, I saw them, maybe it was a series. I remember watching them play. Yeah, it was the NBA finals. I think Shaq got swept, yeah. They got destroyed. Akeem is...

He put him in a blunder. I know you mentioned Russell and a lot... Listen, your boy Simmons was on the show. I'm not besmirching his name. Bill Russell was 6'9. Yokich would absolutely eviscerate him. I'm sorry. I mean, Bill Russell was like...

Can't compare somebody in the 60. Okay, good. So let's not mention those guys anymore. Now, Wilt is an interesting one. Obviously, never saw him live. You probably saw him live, right? I saw old headband Wilt. Yes.

How dominant are we talking? Like Yokitz-Dominance? Well, but when I watched him, he didn't exactly get back on defense. Wilt at that point had, uh, he'd stayed up really late, didn't commit, uh, I mean, it was, it was just not, it was not the- He had some fun with the ladies, if I recall, right? You know who was good in the 70s that nobody, nobody talked? talks about and was unbelievable. Cindy Moncrief?

Bill Walton. Oh, well, yeah. Dude, let me tell you something. I college to his first five NBA seasons, Walton was Yokic. All-time great. No, I mean, Walton was Yolkish. He was the best passing big ever seen. He could hit a mid-ranger.

He was dominant inside. Bill Walton is the only player I've ever seen play center that looks like Yokic. I mean, Bill Walton was 40 years ahead of it. his time, 50. I just, if you're having a draft and you can take any center you want, and I got second pick, who are you going first? Playing the modern game. I think you got to go with Yokin, right?

Yes, who would? I mean, Wembe's. He's not quite a cent. He could be. I mean, people, listen, it took a while for me to come on board. I mean, he's unstoppable right now. I don't want to see him if I'm on the Lakers. I'd much rather take on your boy.

All you need to know is this. Draymond can shut down Janus. Dramon laughs at the suggestion he can do anything with Yokic. Dramon faced Yonist, was like 10 days ago, held him to five field goals. Yokic, I mean, Dramon's like, we're not even, let's stop. We're not, nobody stopping him. It's like Michael Jordan in his prime. There was no Michael stopper.

Well, who? It was a Michael stopper. Dice of Daniels right now is really one of the best defensive players. No laugh. Do you even know who that is? I know Jared Jackson's a pretty good. Is he a good defender? Yeah, Memphis. He's a big.

You're right. Jordan Torch, you know, the expansion era in the 90s. Magic and Bird were gone, whatever. Yokic is doing it in an era with LeBron, Curry. He's the best era at NBA history. You know, Phil Jackson one time, was at a doctor's office, and my wife was there. My wife doesn't know sports. And she said, she told me, she goes, I knew I'd seen him before.

And I'm like, I laughed because my wife spent so many years in Chicago. went to Bulls games. She goes, I knew this guy was a famous guy. He was sports, but I don't know sports. And it was a true story. And then Phil's a very gregarious guy. Start talking or whatever. And my wife's cute. And then so at one point, my wife says, yeah, my husband does this. And my wife said, yeah, my husband's calling coward. Phil's like, tell him he's wrong about LeBron. Because, you know, he coached MJ. So Phil doesn't like me, apparently. which is I don't care How many people have you said today don't like you?

Oh, I have a lot. Aaron Rogers number one. Yeah. I guess I don't know why Phil wouldn't. I've been nothing but a gracious. I mean, I think he's the best basketball coach I've ever seen. He's up there, certain. What I mean, up there?

He's up there near the top. I need to give it more thought. I mean, you sprung this on me at the last second. I wasn't prepared to go through the greatest coaches ever. That's my Phil Jackson store. Steve Kerr's up there. Steve's very good. He told Phil, no, thank you.

I don't want to be the next coach. I don't want to be the next coach. That was his best move ever. part of it, thanks. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News.

One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m.

Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, and of course the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out.

We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media.

That's Cabino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it

one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little, Notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you here on earth. Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering our meaning, businessman, catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world. He doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come

across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Saturday night, it's baseball night. Catch New York's newly minted superstar Juan Soto as he leads the Mets against Jose Al Thuwe and the Astros. or the Braves take on the Padres. Baseball Night in America returns Saturday at 7 Eastern on Fox. Check local listings for the game in your area. So I went to a movie theater recently to watch Black Bag, Stephen Soderberg, who I watch all this movies. I talked about this yesterday.

I'm generally going to go to movies to watch directors. Spielberg, Christopher Nolan, Martin Scorsese. There's a handful of them. Steven Soderberg did Traffic, Sex Lies, Videotape, so he's got Black Bag. I thought it was very good, very quick, excellent movie. He does kind of quirky movies. David Lynch for a while.

I went to his movies. I'm more director and writer over movie star, but whatever. But whenever I go to a movie, I notice this. I see a lot of seniors. And I tend to go to movie theaters, not when they're crowded. I go in the afternoon. I went 1140 in the afternoon a couple weeks ago or a week ago. I go early.

I never go at night. And I always notice seniors. There's a lot of seniors to go to movies, and especially these, you know, these movies got food and alcohol. they're having the time of their life. And I always think that the industry of movies, it's not really built for me. When you get me to a theater, I'm a busy guy. I got kids.

I got businesses. Seniors, they're a lot of movies. They're retired. They got nothing to do. They're hanging out. They love movies. Every time I go to a movie theater, I see seniors everywhere. And I think that's a cool life.

Go and watch a movie four times a week. I don't have time. So a movie is a true hit when you can get me a casual into it. I went and watched Oppenheimer. That's a big hit. Okay, I didn't go to Barbie. All my kids did. Loved it.

And again, my kids pretty busy. Only one of them is a movie zealot, Josh. So my point is, you need casuals, not to diehards, to really make it work. Movie theaters have always had seniors and diehards going. Nobody's in a theater. It's when you get a big, you know, Avengers. I'll go to that. I'll go to Tom Cruise.

Mission Impossible. All go to a Christopher Nolan movie. That's when you have a hit. You can't do it off indie films. Sorry actors. You can't. You know, you got your passion projects. Everybody used to get those.

Not as much anymore. You've got to fund them yourself. So my take is the Yankees and Dodgers are favored to get in the World Series. And you know why that's great? Because the seamheads hate it. Baseball the last 15 years, baseball purists didn't go anywhere. The casuals left. My staff is full of casuals.

You know who watched the playoffs last year? All the casuals. And the diehards. So when people, there's this thing about guys that like, it's kind of braggy. Like, hey, man, I got the Major League Baseball package. I watch 142 games. Oh, so you don't have a girlfriend. Okay.

It's not that cool. It's most people, even sportscasters, you know, you get kids, you have a life, you're doing stuff, you have friends. you don't want to surrender your life to sitting around watching Missouri Valley Conference basketball all day. So, you know, I had Rob Manfred on, and we were talking about this yesterday about the Dodgers and Sho Hay's influence. I think it's greater than baseball understood. He's been a great player since he entered the league. But the shift from the Angels to the Dodgers has really been explosive. I mean, he had a great, great year last year that added to it.

it. And I think the fact that the Dodgers won was really important. But it has exploded. I was just in Japan for the opener. The level of interest and excitement there, Colin, just absolutely unbelievable. Yeah. No, I mean, it's just, oh, Tani felt wasted with the Angels. You know, I've said this before. I wonder if Joe Burrow is wasted with the Bengals and their cheap ownership. Now, they went and spent some money on guys, so that's a very encouraging sign. But, I mean, like Cooper Flag, I'm being honest with you, would be wasted in New Orleans or Charlotte. He would be better going to play with Wembe. He would be better going to Philadelphia or Chicago.

I don't think Utah's bad at all. I actually think with Danny Ains, they're going to build a powerhouse like Sam Presti and OKC have. But to me, I think sports is so much better today than it's ever been. Are you going to tell me that Mike Trout wouldn't have been better for everybody, including Mike Trout, had he not, had he been a Yankee? Doesn't it feel like Mike Trout's career is mostly been unseen? I'm not saying he's an anonymous phone call, but we watched highlights of him. Baseball would have been better off.

Mike Trout would have been better off. Everybody would have won. The Angels, by the way, have had to pay him so much and he's been injured. I'm not sure it's helped them win enough. And Mike Trout's unbelievable. So this purity argument, you see this all the time in the internet, that was a real trend for years and years, the purity argument. And we're all, we're not that pure. Sports is not that pure. You know, the NFL in the 60s and 70s, there was a concussion issue.

People looked the other way. Sports, you know, until they got called on it and had to write a billion dollar check, you know, you know, Barry Sanders would have been better playing probably for the Philadelphia Eagles or the Dallas Cowboys. or Bill Walsh in the San Francisco 49ers. And it wouldn't have been just better for the league. It would have been better for the networks. It would have been better for Barry Sanders. This is better not just for baseball and the Dodgers. It's better for Otani.

They can surround him with great players. He can lead off. He can hit third. Remember when Joe Mauer, the twins signed that massive deal at the time, a great player, catcher. I think he's from that area. They couldn't afford anybody else. Or Joey Votto signs with the Reds.

And they can't afford it. anybody else. Joey Votto, a great player, would have been better in New York. You could have, so you know, it's like when Barry, Jeff Kent had his best years when Barry Bonds was hitting behind him. He got better pitches. I mean, that's the reality

of Otani. You can't pitch around him. Mookie's up next. Then Max Muncie, Freddie Freeman, Teoska Hernandez. I mean, you can't pitch around him. So it's everybody hated Katie going to the Warriors. I didn't. It's like history. We argued it was the best basketball team

of all time. I mean, you and I watch the Globetrotters. Why not watch one that counts? I was like, this is the best basketball. Now, I do think the bulls all time are better. If you could use, you know, the rules would have changed. Obviously, Golden State was smoother offensively. Bulls were better, in my opinion, much better, defensively, length, toughness, blah, blah, blah.

But I got to watch history. I got to watch history. Like all the, like, I got to watch Yukon's dynasty with, with, uh, uh, uh, uh, Gina Oriama. I got to watch Pat Summets. I got to watch KDs. I got to watch Jordans. I mean, I've gotten, I think we have a chance at a dynasty. I got to watch Alabama's.

I want to watch dynasties. I want to watch the greatest teams of all time. You're not getting them in Minnesota. I mean, the reality in baseball is, I'm a Mariners fan. Forget it. We can't afford it. And Seattle's not a poor city. It's a rich city.

Microsoft and Starbucks. Minneapolis is a corporate hub in baseball. They can't afford it. You're never going to get a salary cap in baseball. baseball because the player union is way too strong. I think Rob Manfred would like it. It'd make his job easier and he'd get less complaining from poor owners. But the bottom line is you're not going to get it with the players union.

So the bottom line, the greatest teams of all time are not going to be in Kansas City. Doesn't mean the Royals can't win a World Series. They did. Played in two. Could have won two. You'll get there. But what you'll need is what you're seeing with some of these teams. They're bad for years.

They get good draft picks. They hit on them. All of a sudden, you look up and you're like, wow, the guardians are good. Oh my God, that team's got a lot of good players. Now, you may not have those players for eight years. You may get them for three before the Yankees or Dodgers poach them, but you'll have a shot. It just won't be as good a shot as the Yankees and the Dodgers have repetitively.

And now I'm off my soapbox. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter. Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic. On the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house,

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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