The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Rachel Nichols, Russell Wilson Will Start in New York

Episode Date: May 1, 2025

Rachel Nichols stops by The Herd to talk about the Lakers early playoff exit, if the Clippers should start over, and more.Colin talks about the Giants and why Russell Wilson will be the starter next season.The Lakers made Rudy Gobert look like Wilt Chamberlain.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Thanks for making us part of your day. You know, Jay Mack, I was thinking about this. Nico Harrison has been to Helen back off the lucre trade, and it wasn't a good lucre trade. But one of the things he realized, when you have Luca, you have to have rim protectors. So remember, the first time Luke and Kyrie together is all dicey, right? Okay. And at the trade deadline, he's like, oh, no, if you have Luke on your team, people blow by him. And at the trade deadline, Nico went and got sighs.

And we were all like, wow. But he told the Lakers, you can bring Luke in. but you're giving us AD. And Lakers thought they had a deal for Charlotte Center. So JJ Reddick doubled down in this series going, not only is Minnesota bigger. I'm going to go small. I'm not going to play Jackson Hayes.

The Mavericks told you if Luke is your star, you have got to have rim protection. Because the minute they, when it was just Luke and Kyrie without rim protection, this was not a good team in Dallas. They got rim protection at the deadline. They drafted a kid from Duke, and you're like, oh, my God, this is a real team. So in this series, JJ Reddick's kind of like, hey, I'm going small ball and I'm sticking with it. And then I'm going to play my old guy.

I'm not putting this series on 40-year-old LeBron or undrafted Austin Reeves. This is about Luca and JJ Reddick. And you can't blame LeBron at his age for being tired in the fourth quarter. I'm not putting – and Austin Reeves is an undrafted player. Now, Naus Reid is undrafted, too. but the truth of it is I'm not putting it on those guys I'm not asking Austin Reeves to drop 28

Julius Randall was a star in college and has made huge money Lakers and Knicks and T-Wolves like we've been waiting for him to pop but this series really came down to Aunt eventually Gobert McDaniels Julius Randall just out playing

Austin, LeBron and Luca I'm not putting that on LeBron. LeBron was fine for most of the series. Randall and Gobert against LeBron and Luca, last night game five, had double the rebounds, shot 64% compared to 41%, were plus 16, LeBron and Luca were minus 19. That's on Luca. That's not on a LeBron.

If you're going to play LeBron every minute in the second half of game four, I'm not crushing LeBron because he looked exhausted at the end of last night's game. That's not fair. And it's not fair to put it on Austin Reeves. What are we doing here? He's undrafted. So, yeah, I mean, I didn't like JJ Redick's coaching. And for the record, Chris Finch and his staff are excellent.

They're excellent. And there's a lot of good staffs in this league. Sometimes if you're Eric Spolstra, you can't overcome the talent disparity between you and the calves. That's obvious. But you're seeing Bickerstaff with Detroit. I mean, New York should win that series. Detroit staff's having a good series. And with that, we bring in Rachel Nichols is joining us now live.

Okay, so let's start with this. My take is, listen, sometimes coaching matters. It really matters in fourth quarters. This series was largely decided on Minnesota's really good fourth quarters, was it not? Yes, although you can only coach the roster you have. And the Lakers have been very upfront about this since they made the Luke a trade. You make that trade 10 times out of 10, 15 times out of 10. I don't know how to make that more obvious.

However, it did leave them at a pretty serious deficit for the rest of this season and especially going into the playoffs where people can target your weaknesses. And to me, that is what happened in this series, is you had a physical big team in the Minnesota Timberwolves who knew that the Lakers had no interior defense to speak of and use that to their advantage again and again. Now, did coaching play a part? Yes, Chris Finch has been a great coach in this league.

He knows how to move Anthony Edwards the way Anthony plays the best. He knows how to get to Rudy Gober in a way that Rudy has confidence, and he knew how to attack the Lakers. However, there's only so much that JJ Reddick could do. And I have heard you this morning and yesterday talking about playing all those guys in the second half of the last game, that was clearly a mistake. Otherwise, I didn't see a lot of mistakes from JJ Redic here. I saw a roster that needs to get seriously fixed over the summer.

But the Lakers have been saying that. Rob Polinka's line is it's like building a plane when it's already in the air. That's what they've been doing for the last third of the season in the playoffs. And now they get to have the plane on the ground and really tinker with it. And build a roster around Luca. We'll see if they can get that done. But that is the task for this summer. I think one of the things, as I said earlier, the playoffs are truth serum,

is that, first of all, in the regular season, teams are not. equally rested. If an old team comes into town, you can just get a tired old team and you're playing with young guys. But you get to the playoffs and you watch Miami play Cleveland and it's not close. And by the way, you're playing the same teams and the same guys every game. So your players, you don't get like, you can't fool anybody. They all know your pitches. So here's my concern with the Lakers going forward. Is that Cleveland's better and younger. OKC's better and younger. I actually think Dallas next year, when everybody's healthy, could be really good. Denver's going nowhere with Yokic.

Minnesota obviously bullied the Lakers. They're younger, deeper with more dexterity. The Lakers, let's be totally honest about this, may have to move off Austin Reeves. Yeah. They're not moving LeBron. And Luca, don't they have to build a roster, Rachel, that is about Luca? And if you do, you need rim protection, not Austin Reeves. Yeah, no, there's two guys on that.

team on that roster right now who are safe and that is Luca Dantzich and LeBron James. Everyone else is up for conversation. They need an interior defensive presence, preferably someone who is a rim running center who can finish things the way Derek lively is, possibly both. They need three and D wings who can take advantage of the fact offensively when Luca dishes those great passes and defensively can give them more depth because right now when they do have Luca and Austin Reeves, they are targets, right? You have targets out there. So when you talk, talk about the other rosters that are better than them around the NBA, there's no question about that. It's just a matter of, do you accept that trade, knowing that your roster is going

to be a little bit of a mess for the rest of the season? The answer, by the way, is yes, yes, yes, when someone hands you Luca Dachich, the answer is yes, and then you fix it over the summer, and we'll have to see how good Rob Polinka is at fixing it over the summer. He left himself assets to work with. We're going to talk about Janus and Takumpo in a little bit, and everyone's talking about possible trade options for Janus, we will see what a good job Rob Polinka did in holding onto assets during the Luca trade when we see just how much Janus goes for if they do put him on the trading block because it will be a significant difference. Yeah, I want to get to that in a second. So I actually thought one of my takeaways I haven't talked about yet,

the Warriors have a ton of confidence against Houston and I can tell because they gave a game away last night, that they absolutely believe, listen, we'll go home, we'll be more rested, and frankly, we don't think Houston in half-court basketball is close to us. So they wave the white flag, you know, eight minutes in, but that

tells me that Kern and staff are like, we're better than this team, and we're much better at home. But the Steph Curry grabbing, clutching, thumb injury, it's not illegal, it's a reality of physical basketball. I think you should

protect your iconic players fewer playoff games is the way to do it you probably disagree but what do you make of the assertion is that basically houston's like well you just wave the white flag so we got we can mess around now with every possession doesn't matter we're going to take some possessions and bang around step curry well look i think they would be looking to do that if it was a tight game and by the way the warriors committed a bunch of fouls coming out of the gate i know steve curbs very frustrated with that i do think that they will play better i think every you just said about them knowing how much better they are than this team right now is true and that is always in the back of your head. But I think that even if it had been a tight,

closely contested game, you would have absolutely seen Dylan Brooks taking shots at Steph Curry's thumb because right now it's legal. And Dylan got up there after the game and said, I would do the same thing if someone had an ankle injury and I would expect someone to go at me that way. It is legal in the NBA right now after someone takes the shot to be continuing to defend them and whack on them. That is something you can do. That is something I would expect after we're seeing this happen to Steph Curry. I would expect that to change over the summer when the competition committee meets and they twinker with some of the rules.

But there is no question that right now, he is not doing anything, quote, wrong in terms of what the NBA lays out. And you better believe, especially a guy like Dylan Brooks, but really so many other guys around the league will use every advantage they can at this time of year. And he's using it. Steph Curry even got up there and said the same thing. He was surprised that we all saw just how bad. that thumb was because he's got it wrapped all the time when he's in public for games. But some of the social media people on the Warriors had taken pictures of guys going on to the team playing and they're like, oh, Steph, we saw how bad that thumb was. He's like, what, do you guys

have the feds on me? And when we explain what it happens, he was like, I love this league. There's nothing like the NBA for all the little sort of micro detectives out there with the internet. So, Janus is not only, they're one and nine in their last 10 playoff games. And and they're not competitive in many of them. This is a move I thought they should have made. I think a Tiro was better to get ahead of it because with Biggs, they can fall apart, and they're lucky it didn't become NB'd where the value just leaves.

So Yonis has tremendous value. And I also think when the Knicks acquired McHale Bridges for all the first round picks, they thought it was getting them closer to Boston, but now Tatum's exploded, Peyton Pritcher's the best bench guy in the league, and Boston separated actually from the Knicks. And so my take is, okay, you've got to take a big swing here.

And the Knicks were impatient forever. Then Dolan got into the sphere. Let the basketball people run it. And they're incredibly well run. But I think it's time to get back to the impatient next. And like, this isn't close to good enough, right, for the Knicks? Yeah, I mean, look, even if they come out of the series and I do expect them to, I don't expect them to be able to do much against Boston.

They are just simply outmatched. So they do need to make a move. they would like to make the biggest move possible. Is that Janice Senta-Ducco? I doubt it only because if Janus does ask to get traded, if Milwaukee does decide to trade him, there will be other teams that can offer bigger packages for him. The Houston Rockets can offer a bigger package.

The San Antonio Spurs can offer a bigger package. And most of all, the Oklahoma City Thunder can offer the biggest package of all. So if you have Janus playing with Shea, the presumptive MVP for this year, If you have Janice playing, I mean, look, Janice and Wembe, what would that be like? Or Janice on this young talented Houston team, I think if Trade Talk does center around Janus, those are the teams we will see more in the mix, which leaves the team like the New York Knicks to try to make a different kind of move, but there is no doubt that they need to make one. So I want to end with this, because I think it's, and I've said this before, Kauai is an enigma. He's a remarkable all-time talent, but he's, I always felt he's icing on a cake, but he's not the cake. He doesn't communicate.

He's nonverbal. He's not overly emotional. He can be sort of aloof. That's okay. But that game against the Nuggets, that last game, when Westbrook was the tone setter. And Russell can be flawed, but he plays with so much emotion that it makes you guilty as a teammate if you don't play with that kind of hustle. And I thought the Clippers came out flat, Hardin was a hologram, and it was the moment where you needed Kauai to bark in the huddle.

You needed Kauai's leadership. And if they lose this series, the Clippers, because I think they're a better team and a deeper team. What do you do with the Clippers? Ballmer's the richest owner in the league. This, a first round exit when you have a great coach and probably a better roster, you got to break up the bat and a new arena which is the talk of the league this could have repercussions could it not i don't know i disagree i think they will continue

to make moves around the edges this is just sort of the best kind of most competitive matchup in the bracket it's a little bit of bad luck for both of these teams to have drawn each other this is the series we all expect to go seven games had they matched up the clippers against a different team in the west we probably would be getting a different quote first round result and then we wouldn't say oh they failed out of the first round if they do in ten lose. I just think this is a strong team. They've got a gritty, tough defense, they've got talented players. I expect them to keep improving because this is a very strong front office that continues to improve. But I wouldn't break up anything. I think if they lose this series, you can point a lot

to Aaron Gordon's sort of very fingertippy, fingertippy, fingertippy, fingertipy basket that dunk at the very end of the previous game, because that is what, to me, deflated the clippers a bit. They show up in Denver, you've got the altitude, and you just sort of feel like we did everything and they still won that last game. So I'm very interested. I'll be at the arena tonight to see what kind of effort, intensity, and energy the clippers come out with. But look, the matchup is the matchup and the Nuggets are a very tough team. A lot of guys on that team are champions. And here's a stat I'll leave you with, Colin. You know, we talk about playoff Jimmy Butler all the time. He's not even in the top three of the guys who elevate their game for the playoffs. So

when you look at career-wise, the biggest differential between regular season scoring and playoff scoring. Number one is actually Jalen Brunson, which is impressive, but the number two and three guys on that list are Jamal Murray and Nicoliyokic. Yeah. That's who the clippers are facing. They are facing playoff Jamal, playoff Yokich, which by the way, considering how good Nicolioch is all the time, that's crazy that he gets that much better in the playoffs. This is a matchup issue for the Clippers. They got a, quote, bad draw. And if they lose in the first round, I would not rush to do anything. because this is still a very, very strong team when Kawhi Leonard is healthy.

And he's healthy right now. By the way, the coach they fired in Denver, Malone, he was the guy that wanted to play Westbrook. Yes. The GM. And by the way, he's been validated because Westbrook has been unbelievable in this series. And Malone kept saying, forget the draft picks. I need his energy. And I'll say it.

I have been so critical of Westbrook, I don't know where the three-point shooting came from. Like, it looks different. The results are better. Westbrook has had a great series. I mean, he has been the tone setter in this series. Oh, I agree. Look, I really like Russ. I always think the energy he brings is really important for a team in a locker room

and that kind of stuff is underrated. He has a box of chocolates, though. You never know what you're going to get. And he can make great decisions and he can make terrible decisions. So the key is a guy like Michael Malone felt he knew when to deploy Russ, when to withdraw him when Russ was making those bad decisions. And he trusted that process. And obviously the front office did not.

We're seeing it right now. When you make good decisions about when and how you play Russ, and frankly, when Russ has a hot streak, it goes well. There's times we've seen it not go well with Russell Westbrook, and we'll have to see if tonight that's any different because it really can be hot and cold. And even within a game, you can get this awesome chocolate, and then you can get that chocolate that everyone's like,

I don't want that. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, Westbrook, a former clipper. Yep. Former everything. Come on. Yeah.

You're going to get his best effort. Rachel Nichols, good senior age. Appreciate it. Thanks so much, Colin. Yeah, these games have been, yeah, the Clipper Nugget series. It's hard to find on TV, but it's been outstanding. And it's really interesting when you, if you're the Lakers and Rob Polinka, you have to build around Luca.

You're not building around Austin Reeves. I think you have to move Austin Reeves because I think he has value in the league. And I think you're not moving LeBron, obviously. So you have to build around Luca. And Nico Harrison has shown you the most effective way to build around Luca, which is rim protectors in size. And so J.J. Reddick went the opposite. He goes, we're going to play this big Minnesota team.

We're going to go small ball. You can't do that with Luca. And by the way, it's, I don't think playoffs, I mean, if you go look at Pistons and Nicks, what's decided the games, fourth quarters, like moments. Clippers Nuggets, what's decided games, fourth quarters? T-wolves, like, calves heat, first quarters. bucks pacers first quarters but like the lakers t-wold series go look at the numbers it's all fourth quarters well that's why it was playing lebron and luca one guy who has cardio issues and another guy who is

old playing them in the moment may have felt right because the next game wasn't until wednesday but you are now you're seeing the repercussions lakers lebron look gassed be sure to catch live editions of the heard weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys?

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Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The NBA in the playoffs allows more physicality. So big-edge Minnesota having the bigger roster and the deeper roster. That's why I picked Houston over Golden State. And my take was that there's got some, I mean, the warriors are small and they're old. The difference is Houston is so bad in the half-court offense. Jalen Green's talented, what is he?

Whereas with Minnesota, Julius Randall has been great in the half-court and Aunt's and then Gobert was wilt last night. But it's, it's, you know, it's, J.J. Reddick said, I'm going smaller. And in playoff physical basketball, to me, it backfired. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

All right. Pains me to do it, Colin, but we'll talk a little more about the wolves beating the Lakers. Now, listen, you just mentioned Lakers six and a half point favorites last night. They were favor in the series. The market just did not understand this upset, undervalued the wolves by a lot, and Anthony Edwards did a victory laugh. No, literally a victory lap around Crypto.com arena after the game.

Lake of them five. And then, look, when we were on 3-1, they said, Lakers and 7. Go to hand in the day. Hey, the good guy don't die in this movie. Hey, the good guy don't die in this movie. Wow. Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't advise that.

Wow. That's balzy, man. I respect it from aunt. Hey, talk your trash. Everybody doubted you. No, seriously, nobody picked Minnesota. Like, zero people picked Minnesota in the media. Vegas was fooled. Draft Kings was fooled. I was fooled. A lot of NBA people were. You know what I attribute this to, Colin? So Minnesota at one point was 32 and 29. They were a playing team after 60 games. They weren't in the more close games than any team in the league this year. And they finished 17 and 4, but a lot of that,

that happened during March Madness, which was historically great. And we just missed it. Start a baseball season. We missed it. The wolves went on a tear. I will add this. Anthony Edwards, after the game, called LeBron the goat. He said, we just beat the best player ever.

Your thoughts? Certainly in the qualification. He means among two people. Really? Cream, three. Kareem, Michael and LeBron. And then very, very close is Magic. Johnson.

Very close. It's being not reported, but everybody's doing the stat padding, and they're like, this is who Aunt has beat in his last few playoff series. Yokic last year, LeBron this year, Luca this year, KD last year, Booker last year. He's got a good body count, right? We got to give him props for that. Well, well, he, I mean, last night. He was old for 11 on three's last night.

I don't want to hear about last night. He did nothing. The T-Wolf, didn't the T-Wolves have a stretch on three-pointers? I mean, they had a long... They missed 18 in a row in the second half. Yeah, I mean, think about that. The T-Wolves missed 18 straight three-pointers. And didn't play great.

And they still... And they beat the Lakers at Crypto. This is another stat. I'm just going to... I mean, it's unfathomable. So Rudy Gobert combined in the first four games had 14 points. Combined.

He had 27 last night. Combined in the first four games, he had 25 rebounds. That's it. at 24 last night. Just an outlier of a game. Unbelievable stuff from Julius Frickin Randall. I mean, that's the best

playoff series of his career. You know what's funny about him. He's one of those guys that if there was no three pointer. I mean, analytics turned Tristan Thompson from a valuable piece to can't put him on the floor. Right? Like Julius Randall comes

into this league and it's morphing into a three-point shooting league and you're like, what do we do with him? Because effort great. will defend, tough guy, get your boards, but he has worked hard to develop some level of a three-pointer because he could have easily just been, hey man, I'm not going to, I'm just going to be what I am. So give Julius Randall credit and the staff in Minnesota

because he was the classic five years ago. We were all like, well, what it? Do you pay that guy in the playoffs? I need guys who can at least hit a three. You can't be unguarded. That's why Russell Westbrook's. amazing. Westbrook was the guy you're not, let him shoot threes. This series has been great from three point.

Randall's like a throwback. In that 90s era where power forwards like Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley were like just rugged dudes who couldn't really score, Randall would have thrived in that era. The fact that he's added a three, as you said, super impressive. Let's go to the NFL where Kyler Murray is set to become Arizona's longest-tenured starting quarterback since they moved to Arizona. Of course, The Cardinals have not won a playoff game with Kyla Marie, but he is putting it out there. He doesn't want to go anywhere.

He loves Arizona. We've only played in one playoff game since I got here, which is very frustrating. I'm still more motivated than ever. I just feel to the fire. Going into Year 7, playing in the playoffs once, I don't believe that I'm a couch watching football type of guy. The fact that I haven't led us to that,

I take a lot of my shoulders to, you know, perform in the moments where, you know, I'm needed the most. If I could play my whole career here, finish it out here, like I'm sign me up guys like Kobe Kobe played for one organization this whole crew you know like that's that's something that I admire and that's something I want to do I actually think they have a good coach I actually like Arizona staff and for the record I thought after Seattle you could argue Arizona was in a short list of the second best draft I thought they've the last two years they've had good drafts so they've got a stacked

offense right they got a great tight end a great wide receiver a really good running back is the quarterback there the defense they went to all in on defense. In my opinion, reading that draft, Gannon said, listen, we've got the offense. Now we need to get the defense. And if Kyler doesn't deliver this year, I think he's a sneaky quarterback Colin, who's like one of those, what do

we do we do we keep paying him? Do we keep him our starter? Or do we kind of start over with a new quarterback? You seem to like Kyler a little more than the market. Well, I think he, I mean, listen, every quarterback in this league that I like has something that is great. That's, that

like, that's my knock on Tua. Eyes, arm, mobility. What's the that? More accuracy with Tua. That's a hard way. What's Kyler's greatness? Scambling? Incredibly elusive. Like, incredibly elusive. Like Russell Wilson, but in his prime, but significantly better. How much longer is that going to hold up in his frame? That's a fair argument. But Josh Allen, if you go look at all, even though Justin Herbert, who's not winning playoff games, huge arm. Like, historically unique, six, five and a half, 240.

Like every, that's why I always say about Brock Purdy. What do you go, wow? And almost every great, like Jalen Hurst, say what you want. The guy squats 650. His strength is not only redeemable, he could be the strongest player in the league pound for pound. Like, okay, that's something in this league. All right.

Final story, Colin, oh, oh, oh, look, my 2026 NFL mock draft, I posted on Fox Sports, and yes, yes, I have Arch Manning at the top, but I know you're going to hate this because I have so many quarterbacks going in the top 12. So we're going to put on the screen here. So Arch Manning won. Listen, let me see. A year out, just don't yell and freak out. I know you're going to lose your mind.

Drew Aller, Aller, whatever. He has not shown it, but the tools and the frame and the body and the measurements, they're there. Okay, for our radio audience, he's got Nico I Amalia, number five, to Carolina. think Bryce Young's going to be pretty good this year. Oh, that's possible. Hold on. Hold on. I mean, I've done a lot. Rams take Garrett Nussmeyer, the LSU kid.

He's, yeah, I have to see him again. You got to read the right-up. First of all, let me tell you where you're so wrong. Caleb Downs is going somewhere in the top three. Three. If this wasn't a big quarterback year, Caleb Downs could go number one.

She is an incredible player. The highest drafted safeties, there's two of them who were went fifth overall. I think that's about the ceiling for downs. Colin, there's going to be too many quarterback needy teams. Look at the Browns. They need a quarterback. The New York Giants, if they fire Day Bowl, they'll need a quarterback. If the Jets are this bad, I don't think they will be.

They will need a quarterback. And then you look at Carolina, New Orleans. Next year could be a quarterback needy draft at the top, unlike this past year. Yeah, I think you got too many quarterbacks. I know. It happens every year. The Clemson guy's a little further down. go ahead mock it laugh it's fine no big deal i like the effort thanks you know how you talked about me being honest a couple about an hour

yes yes yes be honest i like you look good in that dress i like the effort it's a it's quite a it's quite an effort by you okay all right j mac with the news well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news yeah it's you know it's it's i've kind of moved off the uh uh shudur sander stuff uh move but i I was watching a lot of NBA over the last like three weeks. But it is really interesting on the Pittsburgh Steelers because the Rams and the Cleveland Browns clearly in the first round said, we think the best quarterbacks are next year.

I think the Giants think that too, but Brian Daible and Joe Shane need to win now. And if Russell Wilson putters around, they're going to go with Jackson Dart. So I think some of that, that feels like it's a little bit of it, although I'm sure they would deny that. But the Rams and the Browns, they got first round picks. They're going big next year. I don't know how good any of these quarterbacks are that J. Mack put on there. But it's something to think about.

A year ago, people had Quinn Ewer's in the first round. So I like to get at Clemson. Now, I think Archmanning potentially will be the best. I think Drew Aller at Penn State's interesting, not consistent enough, For me, I'm not sure he's it yet. But things change. These are, and I said this about Schindor Sanders, the hardest thing about personnel in these professional leagues, women, girls mature sooner. In women athletics, you will see eighth graders being offered scholarships, ninth graders, and it's totally appropriate for young girls.

They've matured faster. I mean, I can remember years ago, I forget the name of the kid. he was offered a quarterback was offered a scholarship in the eighth grade. I forget his name and don't know where he's at. Like it was fun. I think it was Lane Kiffin offered somebody. Like in the eighth grade, you have no idea. Quinn Ewers was a first round quarterback last year.

He's the last quarterback taken of 13. So I do think, like when I think Shadur was a bit immature, I thought Baker was really immature. I thought Johnny Mansell was insanely immature. But the last time, the first time I met Johnny Manzell like a year ago, he owned it. He wasn't owning it four or five years ago. Johnny owned it. I think Caleb Williams grew up a lot in Chicago.

Very loud media, a lot of pressure. I think Caleb Williams has had to kind of grow up. Not that he was wildly immature, but I think Chicago, New York, big markets, Boston, and you grow up quickly because you get criticized loudly and often. So these mock drafts are hard because whereas I think a young, a ninth grade softball or basketball player or women's, I mean, they knew in the sixth grade, was it Paige Becker's for Yukon.

It was like people were offering her scholarships when she was a little kid with guys, I think it's harder to identify, especially in football, boys mature more slowly. So, you know, as you sit in here, you make mock drafts, Somebody's going to pop and somebody's going to drop,

and that's just personnel with young men. That's we are frontal lobe, you know, brain scans, whatever it is. We are hard to figure out at 19 years old. Live in Chicago, it's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

You could catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and, of course, the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too.

take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Cabino and Rich.

Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory. of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to date. David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Genschen went.

I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I saw a story this morning. The Steelers are waiting for Aaron Rogers, Kirk Cousins, a possibility. Why now when the Rooney said, it sounds like we're getting Aaron is Kirk Cousins a possibility? Aaron said, I'll play for 10 million. Mark me down for I'll take Aaron with the Niners for 10 million over Brock Purdy for 56. I suggested a month ago. I said, if I was Aaron Rogers, I would not sign anywhere before the draft.

Watch what teams do. I also said a month ago, he's from the Bay Area. he knows Kyle Shanahan's system. It's Matt LaFleur's system mostly. He doesn't have to show up early. And that system is very quarterback friendly. It's following directions, accurately distributing the ball, moving the pocket occasionally.

The Shanahan system is built for Aaron Rogers. So now, Aaron is nobody knows. A lot of people thought he was going to announce, you know, on the McAfee show, he was going to Pittsburgh. Nobody knows with Aaron. So I'm not going to try to guess. He may go to the Steelers, but I'm just saying, people, I heard Big Ben say, well, why is he waiting? I'll ask, why are the Steelers now mentioning Kirk Cousins? Just pretend you're Aaron Rogers. I can play for Kyle Shanahan. I got Christian McCaffrey behind me.

Joanne Jennings, George Kittle, temperate weather, or go to a tone-deaf, offensive organization that pays all their defensive players in Pittsburgh. Brough, it's not close. We already knew he was interested in Minnesota. And they don't have Christian McCaffrey in the backfield. So I'm just saying, if I'm Aaron, and he says, I'll play for 10, I'm going to the Niners. Now, this is speculation. I don't know anything.

But Aaron's too smart to make a foolish decision. and I don't think Pittsburgh, just say it out loud. Tone deaf to offense, lost their left tackle, lost Naji Harris, once again heavy defense draft. Aaron's not solving that thing. You're not solving that thing. Seattle, Arizona, okay, you have to get through the Rams, Stafford aging, just thrown out there. Just put me down, and I don't think Aaron is going to play for 10. I think the Niners are probably offering 18 or something, whatever it is.

But everybody keeps out, well, why isn't Aaron signing? Well, maybe Aaron's looking around going, let's see how this Brock Purdy thing goes. I take Aaron for 15 over Brock for 51. I'm just telling you what I'm doing. For two years, I'd go with it. Okay. So we've talked about this. The NBA would probably be better served if the face of the league was a domestic player.

I don't think it's essential. I don't. Right now, it's kind of a, they don't have the face of the league, and I think there's only been four or five in my life. I think MJ was, Magic Bird, Shack, Kobe, Steph LeBron. There's been a half dozen. Wilt was great. I never thought Wilt was the face of the league.

No, I'm too, I don't really remember it. I saw him in the 70s. Maybe he was. I think Russell and the Celtics kind of were, but we didn't even know what that meant face of the league back in the 60s. It is a thing now because of MJ. But I have said, I think Ant and Tatum are now the two best domestic players,

and they've both been really good, Tatum more consistently in the postseason. But there is something to be said about wanting to be the face of the league or having the personality for it. Now, Tatum right now is a more consistent great player than Ant. Ant's great nights are better, but Tatum's more consistent. And Ant did not play particularly well last night, whereas Tatum plays well almost every night, certainly against Orlando.

But I want to, this, just listen to this. This is Ant after the game. Watch. Rudy played phenomenal, man. He played almost 40 minutes tonight. 12 for 15 from the field. Yeah, we can't ask nothing.

He had 24 rebounds. He was a dragon tonight. Rudy was the dragon? Yeah, he was a dragon tonight, for sure. As the kids say, he got Riz, maximum Riz. He's got charisma. And then he's after the game, he's walking outside crypto. Like, that's part of it.

And I think this is just who he is. I think he's got a personality. I think he's funny, sometimes off the court, not perfect. I think Tatum, to me, feels very buttoned up and very adult, almost crafted. I mean, Duke, Celtics, work ethic. And I said this. Tatum is like exactly what you want from a star, which is like, it's almost like Tim Duncan. But Duncan was never the face of the league. He was the big fundamental. Tatum's incredible fundamental player. He didn't have a lot of Riz. And for the record, you thought the only cool word I know is lit.

Uncle Colin is always adding lexicon. That's the way it works on the show. I'm always adding things. But there is something to be said about that. He also said this, because he didn't play particularly well last night. But again, how many guys give you a great night? I mean, Luca, we're pointing fingers at. Here's Ant talking about his night last night. The thing about watching film is you've got to be willing to accept the bad. I think most people, they only want to watch it when it's good. So I want to watch the games when I play bad.

Like, the game tonight when I play bad, like, what could I have done better? And I think that's the perspective that helped me change as far as my playmaking and is seeing the floor. I want to see what I can do better. Yeah, I also think it's easy to just criticize the Lakers. Minnesota's good. Great staff. The domestic face of the league.

A tough veteran who was a great matchup, Julius Randall against the Lakers. I mean, Gobert, when he went to Minnesota, didn't they, I mean, how many draft picks did the Jazz get? Like, he had value. He was the defensive player of the year. I know everybody, Shaq doesn't love him. but in the end, Gobert is, I mean, it's like Zach Eadie. You guys can say all you want about Zach Eadie.

It's hard to score over Zach Eadie. Gobert has value. Against a small Laker team that doubles down and doesn't play Jackson A's, he was ridiculous last night. So I think Face of the League is, you know, kind of a nebulous whatever. I don't think, honestly, we ever talked about Face of the League before Michael Jordan. I don't even think we talked about Magic and Bird being face of the league. There was discussion that Magic and Bird had saved the league.

But I don't think, I could be wrong on this, but I don't think face of the league was a term until Michael Jordan. And a lot of it was because he had a handsome face and a stylish face. And it was like, God, that's what you want the guy to be. And he was so good in commercials. So I don't think it's essential. But I do think, I do think if you look, if you juxtapose Ant and Tatum, one guy feels like he's got a more connectivity with young people. Swag. I know you love that.

Let me just ask you something real quick. So SGA is going to win the MVP. But you're out here saying Aunt Edwards is the face of the league. Yeah. It's weird. I actually think Ant is a more dangerous player than SGA, because I've got to respect to threes. I know he was 0 for 11 last night.

But when you lead the league in threes, you're unstoppable driving to the basket. Like I think he's an overall better player than SGA, don't you? Well, he's a more dynamic athlete. SGA is funny. He's a combination of like six players. He's got a little Kiki Vandaway. Oh, geez.

Well, I mean, again, better, better than Alex English. But what he is, he's a bucket. And he's got that free throw angle bucket. The way he holds the ball. Never forget this. The clippers are well run. They let him go. Like he was a late developer.

When he was at Kentucky, he wasn't considered the best prospect. I think it was Kevin Knox. Like nobody, I mean, so he is one of the classic, and this doesn't happen a lot in the NBA. He's a classic late developer. It is an infrequent term in the NBA. Generally speaking, you know, Kobe at 16, Luke at 14, LeBron at 13, you kind of know who the next face.

So SGA is a slow developer. Some of it is hard work. He's a bucket. It's coaching. It's a great organization. There's a lot of things to play here. Not many people are mentioning this. You did touch on Austin Reeves had a brutal series.

I mean, he was bad, okay? You know who guarded him a lot of the time? Anthony Edwards. And I looked at some of the numbers. Austin Reeves during the regular seasons, getting to the foul line, six, seven, eight, ten times a game. He attempted zero free throws, Colin, in the final two games. Austin Reeves was absolutely gassed.

He had nothing left in the tank. He could not go at Anthony Edwards. It was shocking to see how the Lakers kind of just wilted. They got worn down against Aunt McDaniels, Randall. I think Minnesota staff watched J.J. Reddick play starters for the entire second half, and I think the Minnesota staff said, fellas, they're going to be worn out. We're going to go bigger on them.

Gobert had nine offensive rebounds. We're going to go bigger and get more physical, and they're going to run out of gas. And I think that's what you saw. Lickers had eight. I think Minnesota staff deserves a lot of credit. Chris Finch is the man, no doubt about it. And Rudy Gobert had a podium game.

What are you going to do? Damn it. Got the Riz. This show's got the Riz. I got to be honest. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in.

I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human.