The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Ranking the AFC QBs

Episode Date: June 11, 2025

The best QBs in the NFL are mostly in the AFC Former Indiana Pacers Center Roy Hibbert joins The Herd to talk about the NBA Finals matchup between the Thunder and his former teamSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's our number two. All sorts of stuff happening. Aaron Rogers is now officially a Pittsburgh Steeler. And we're going to go to Roy Hibbert, the former all-defensive team, two-time All-Star for the Indiana Pacers who played tonight at home, getting five and a half points.

I actually think I'll take the points tonight. I do think, I don't think there's a talent disparity with Indiana and Oklahoma City, which I do, I did feel like there was a talent disparity between Milwaukee and Indiana or Oklahoma City and Minnesota. I think Pascal C. Occam's an A player, Halliburton's an A player, Miles Turner's a great rim protector. I actually like Indiana.

I like him at home, and I think OKC because of their youth and so many rotational players, it's not a great road team. So I'll take the points with Indy tonight, and we'll talk about that in a second. So, you know this, you know this, that last year was a great, not the same. past draft, the one before was a great draft, most of those quarterbacks went to the NFC. Jaden, Daniels, Michael Pennix, J.J. McCarthy, Caleb Williams, Bo Nix went to the AFC. But the reason the AFC has been better than the NFC, not necessarily just the Super Bowl, but overall is because the AFC for about a seven-year stretch kept hitting on quarterbacks.

And, you know, C.J. Stroud and Herbert and Burrow and Mahomes and Allen, they just kept hitting and hitting and hitting on him. So if the young NFC quarterbacks like Jaden Daniels and Caleb and Panics, if they can hit in that draft a couple years ago, it'll even things out. But right now the best quarterbacks in football are overwhelmingly in the AFC. So now as Aaron Rogers goes from the Jets to the Steelers, he stays in the AFC again with a defensive culture and a defensive head coach. I let's just stay how good do we think he is compared to the other now he's past his prime he's 41 year old

Aaron with the other aFC quarterback well I'll just start it with this since 2022 and that includes the last year in green bay Aaron is not gino smith and I know you don't want to hear that but if you told me I had a game to win I'd take gino gino right now moves he's more mobile he's pretty close to his prime though probably a bit out of the prime he has a better passer rating completion percentage much larger yards per game and he's winning more games so and gino's not in the upper tier of the a fc quarterbacks in my opinion though i think he's a little undervalued but if if i went today and you told me best quarterbacks in the afc and i mean maybe my order's not perfect or do your liking because i think burrow last year honestly was the best quarterback

i'd go alan mahomes burrow lamar that's the big four nobody disputes i'd go herbert cj stroud and i put gino seven And again, when Gino has a run game in his career in Seattle, he was good. His passer rating's over 100. So we can make, we can say, now, Gino's Sam Darnold. When he's rattled or there's pressure, he can be reckless. But if you give him time and you give him a decent run game, Gino's a pretty good quarterback. He's a B-plus, plus.

And I would put the eighth best quarterback, Bo Nix, who's going into year two with Sean Payton. And I think Bo Nix is so much more athletic than anybody wants to give him credit for. his running is a huge element of that offense. And then number nine, I think you get Aaron, Trevor Lawrence, and Tua, where it kind of just depends on the game. I don't trust Tua and bad weather up north. Trevor Lawrence makes too many mistakes.

And Aaron, he is a pocket quarterback. So that's kind of what you're looking at. Can you make the playoffs with the ninth best quarterback in the AFC? Absolutely. Especially if your defense is great. But that's kind of where he's at right now. He's sort of in that Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Aaron Rogers. I think that's fair. He's 41. He's strictly a pocket quarterback.

And Arthur Smith, six years coach and coordinators had one top 10 offense. Remember, the Steelers lost their best. Running back, their left, tackling their best receiver. No other team in the NFL had that kind of losses in offensive production. And with that, we bring in Roy Hibbert, the two-time All-Star from the Pacers, all-de-defense. I want to start with this. When you guys would face the Heedles, and those games were good and they were combative, especially in Indiana. but there was a sense there was a big gap in talent and i would agree mostly if bosh was in his prime weighed probably out of it lebron the best player in the world i don't think there's a gap in okayc

in okc in okc i do think okayc is deeper but i think siakum and haliburton are both a players whereas sGA may be better than both but at this point homegrins wildly inconsistent to you, the talent between OKC and Indy, where are you on it? To be honest with you, I'm kind of where you are right now. Both of these teams have kind of figured out their identity, and they do it in a group setting. You know, OKC really does it with their defense, and everybody has a part of it.

SGA really gets his hands in there, trying to get a lot of loose balls, and it propels their offense as well. So defense propelling their offense. Now with the Pacers, they don't overmatch. Their identity is so much different than my team's identity. We did it through defense and getting stops at the rim, myself, David West, and obviously Paul, George, and Lance Devinson

and George Hill on the perimeter. But this team plays a touch pace, and that's their identity, and they've got to get into fast break points just to cover that difference that OKC brings on the defense event. Only nine fast break points last game. That, to me, is unacceptable. This is a team that even on a loss in game three against the Knicks. They had 16

in a six point loss. So that is there. And that's where the magic happens. And Halliburton to me is the focal point here. And I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but I would like to see in tonight's game, Halliburton take it upon himself to maybe take two or three more shots that may be not

the right plays, because he's such a good unselfish player that sometimes to his own detriment. I think his teammates would be okay if he took a couple extra shots where he looked people off and try to push the pace, get it. and one at the rim. Kind of changed the pace because Indiana at Gainesbridge, they go crazy.

This is all we have. We have cults and we have basketball. And that's basically, I think, we can help them win tonight. When did you realize Halliburton, and by the way, most of the guys coming into the league are 18, 19, 20 years old? So it's not like the NFL where a college kids had four years in a college weight room. A lot of NFL players come into the league either engaged or married, and they also know their careers are shorter. So NFL guys come in more adult. These NBA guys are still developing.

You don't know what you have. When did you first think Halliburton? Was there a moment, Roy, for you that you thought, oh, wow. Oh, wow. This could be a star in this league. Was it two years ago? When was your first thought that this kid just wasn't a good, gangly young point guard? He was something different.

I think, you know, it's slowly built. And it's the way I felt that a star was being born, but a different one. for one where he doesn't need to take all the shots anymore. So I think the last two, three years, he's really, you know, caught the attention to everybody in Indiana, maybe not national-wise, but the, I may I say in the last two years, just the way how they play, the Pacers have gotten better and better and better, and he's not selfish. This team is not selfish at all. Pascal Seaccombe last year came in halfway through in the season with a great trade.

It was able to fit right in. And, you know, some of those best players like LeBron during that heat all time, everybody has to sacrifice. and to me a true leader learned to sacrifice. Yeah. You know, it's interesting with Indiana, their pace of play. The NBA has decided, we're going to let you be very physical. And I think in seven-game series, it can be problematic.

I think it actually is why New York beat Boston, is that New York came in, and they want to make it muddy and ugly and physical, and they're built for it. When you look at Indiana, and their pace and their style. Do you think it ages well? Is this just, I mean, Denver looked like the best team in the world,

and then a year later, Denver can't win a second or third playoff series. Does Indiana age well? Do they keep Turner? Does this style age well? I think they should keep Turner. He's well on his way to become one of the best pacer, I think, centers in history with his amount of wins he's had. I think he should have been an All-Star at this point in time.

But the way how they play, I think if they're able to continue to have a good bench. Now, I think their bench wasn't as good as OKC's bench last time. But when you have OB-Topp and, you know, who could hit, you know, five threes in a game and give you 17 points when he starts off the game with three bad turnovers in game one and then still be able to finish strong. When you have T.J. McConnell, who's like an undersized guard, but plays defense really hard from picking up the top of the key, and then also pushing the pace.

He got Jalen Brunson in a lot of foul. in games three and four against that New York next team. So I think you have that core and then you keep building around getting good, smart pieces that fit. I think the team could age pretty well. I got to ask you about Cooper Flagg. So you played several years with the Georgetown Hoyas. You were a two-time first team all biggie.

So you played a lot of college basketball. That's just not the world we live in anymore, although the NIA is keeping guys in a little longer. When you watch Cooper Flagg, go back to your first year. in the NBA. What is Cooper Flagg's number one challenge going to be from dominant college player to NBA player? What is going to be a smack in the face? What is going to be tough? All right. So for me, I would initially say the physicality, but having seen him play against USA players and NBA type players and have viral moments where he like embarrasses some NBA

talent, I don't think that's going to be an issue. For me, it's just going to figure out, you know, his place on the team when, you know, say when Kyrie gets back, where is he going to fill in? Is Kyrie going to be able to, you know, who's known as an alpha? Is he going to be able to fit in well with him, which I assume they do, they have that Duke connection.

But he can go in like 10 to 20 games stretches where he's playing well, and then, and then, I mean, AD gets hurt. Now he has to take over. So finding his place every couple games is probably going to be the biggest thing in terms of, because they have two alphas right there. And then also to me, is just finding a three-point shot consistently.

He took three-pointers per game last year. So I feel he's going to be a lot more open. And if he doesn't see a couple go in as a rookie, that could really mess with your mind saying that what I did last year was so successful and now have two, three games where I'm missing them. And then the three-point shot is such a big shot in the NBA. I think that's going to be a happy medium right there for him to try to find the perfect setting. I can go back to even the 70s and the NBA, Roy,

has been a players league. But I do think the X's and O's matter, but culture matters. So when Mark Jackson left and Steve Kerr arrived, it went from a defensive culture. It probably benefited play Thompson and Steph. It was more of an offensive culture. I think Eric Spolstra, Eric Spolstra has always demanded you play defense, Popovich.

So when the Knicks fired Tibbs, now multiple teams have said, you can't draft our players. You can't interview our coach. And I look at the Knicks. I like their talent. I don't love it. I like it.

But I would argue this. They were Villanova in New York. They were tough. They were scrappy. And that was created by Tibbs. Am I overvaluing Tibbs effect on the Knicks? Because I look at their culture and I think, I love Brunson. But some of it is, when I think of the Knicks, I'm like,

if you had to guess, you'd be like, oh, that's a T's. The way they play, the minutes of their starters, their physical. I don't know. I think Tibbs deserves more credit in New York than he got. Or am I overstating his value? I mean, back-to-back 50-plus seasons is not something to laugh at or anything like that. You know, when I play, we want to always punch down at the Knicks. You know, they're always Broadway and everything like that.

But I feel like it is a culture. Now, do I wish that they, you know, had a little bit. tips with like go to his bench a little bit more or could the front office bring you know a better bench to fill out so they could obviously play and have a little bit more diverse uh uh a interaction because when guys are playing against the pacers who haven't played all season long they don't have that rhythm they don't have that grind they don't have that foundation that they've done this in the past with their teammates now the next now in offense i feel like um a little bit too much leash was given away you know jaylon brunson was too much one-on-one and

And it was just, it was not a good cohesive group on offense to really feel like, you know, they could win a championship. It has to be done by a group. And I feel like maybe some change is needed there, a different offensive change. Hopefully that defense can translate over because, I mean, if they didn't have some turnovers, it could have gone a different way. The Pacers could have lost some of those games if we didn't have Halliburton's, you know, not antics, but superhero antics at the end of the game.

But I think that it might be time for a different. offensive coach, but I like what he did there the time he was there. Roy Hibbert, two-time All-Star with the Pacers, all-defensive guy. Great senior, Roy. I appreciate you taking time for us. Appreciate it. You have a good one. Yeah, I think

Indiana's talent, they don't have as many top-end rotational players, but Halliburton, Miles Turner, Seyakum, those are good players. Those are big-time players. And Obie Topin, the former Nick, is insanely long,

athletic. So when he's hitting threes, I think Indiana's talent, you don't mow through Milwaukee, Cleveland, mow through them without talent. And also, you know, again, OKC, I think is one of the youngest teams in the league, second or third youngest team. Young teams trying to close out a series, even at home, that's why Denver was scary. Denver's been in these wars. Oklahoma City is a big difference between winning game two and three, game four, and a game six to win the championship. You look at that Boston team before they won, and they had veterans, they got tight. You're like, I don't know, but so I, Denver was a great example. Denver played much looser against Oklahoma City.

They just weren't very good defensively. They didn't have the depth. It became at times kind of a one-man offense. I think Indiana's going to hang. I think tonight at home, you know, Seaccom has always been good. We're just talking about him now. Jamack, I'm taking the points. I talked to you into it, huh?

Yeah, I'm going to take the points. I'm surprised paces are five and a half point dogs. People just think Oklahoma City's is juggernaut. And they have led for all but two minutes so far through the first two games, right? Well, what they've done is what nobody else could consistently do. They've slowed the pace. So when you have great defensive teams, I said when the Seahawks had that great young defense and they embarrassed Peyton Manning, they make you uncomfortable. So the Pacers were able to make Milwaukee uncomfortable with their pace.

Cleveland uncomfortable, the Knicks uncomfortable. Oklahoma City has reversed it. They're taking away and changing the pace. So that tells you it's a historically great defense. But I think at home, I'm going to take the Pacers tonight. What are you more excited for your dinner with the Chicago Bears person that you have yet to be named? or Pacers Thunder game three. Be honest.

Bears, and plus. Yeah, I mean, my son's promoting from eighth grade to ninth grade, and I'm way more fired up about that than I am game three of the final. Now, if it was LeBron Curry, I might have to skip the celebration of my son

to watch two legends in the finals, but it's Thunder Pacers. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling. it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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Jenchian win. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerner Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world. right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One,

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A discouraging 4-0 loss. to the Swiss last night. JMAQ with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. You guys can tell when Calhurt gets all worked up the look on his face, just laughing at our soccer team.

Well, he's going to laugh at this list from Chris Sims, because everybody's favorite NBC sports analyst has now ranked the top ten quarterbacks heading in the next season. He has Lamar Jackson won, Josh Allen, two. Whatever. I would flip those, but it doesn't matter. He had Joe Burrow 3, Patrick Mahomes 4. I don't totally disagree with that.

Mahomes' lining in the 4 is going to get some people worked up. Sims went on to say that Mahomes' quarterback play week in and week out has not been at a high level. I mean, I've been saying that on this show for two years. What really got my goat, Collins, is Chris Sims had Jalen Hertz, who was just the MVP of the Super Bowl at 10 behind Baker Mayfield, Justin Herbert, C.J. Stroud,

Matt Stafford, Jaden News. Yeah, that's comical. I'm sorry, Chris, that's laughable. No, that's right where I have Jalen Hertz as well. Ten? When you look at the weakness of the Eagles, it's their passing game. That's the weakness. PFF did a breakdown of every team in the league.

Strength, weakness. The weakness. Greg Cochell's been saying this now for two years. Jalen's not great from the pocket, which is where I want my quarterback to throw from. There's no question. Now, he squats 650 pounds. Pound for pound, he's the strongest quarterback probably in league history. He is not.

We've got to be honest with this. If you're under 6-2, sometimes the pocket is not your ally. And he is a shorter quarterback than ideal. That's exactly when the weakness of your team is the passing game. And by the way, they have the best offensive line in the league. So they have everything built to have a great passing game. AJ Brown, Devonte Smith, best left tackle arguably in football, Sequin Barclay to take the pressure off a quarter of a...

They're literally built to have the best passing game in the league, and it's the team weakness. I don't think there's any question. I would take Baker over Jalen if it was one throw in a football game. We need to drug test you right now. Baker over Jalen hurts? That's insanity. Colin, so listen, I like pro football focus as much of the next guy.

But when did it become the Bible, where it's like, oh, well, PFF said this, So it's got to be true. And, like, there's different interpretations. I guarantee you tonight at your big swanky dinner, okay, with the Chicago Bears brass. Why don't you ask them? Hey, guys, give me some of the toughest quarterbacks to game plan for. And I guarantee you, Jalen Hertz is in the top five. Again.

Because you can't stop the run. You can't stop the push. And he's also a very accurate thrower against zone and man. Yeah, you like small quarterbacks. Yeah, Jailen Hertz is small? Well, no, I mean, yeah, Jalen Hertz is. compared to Herbert, Stroud, Josh Allen, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Big Ben, Dan Marino is small.

Yes, he's like 5.11 and a half. He's small. Oh, dear. So, you know, just I hate to puncture your argument like this, but we had this last week. Jalen Hertz in the pocket. Only six foot two. I guess he doesn't get a lot of balls batted down at the line. He crushes from the pocket.

He puts the ball wherever he wants to. He can make it rain against any secondary in the league. Okay. Would you argue they have one of the best, I mean, is there an argument if I said, wide receiver tight end skill that the Eagles run an elite class of, I mean, they don't have T. Higgins, Jamar Chase, but A.J. Brown and Devante Smith, that's a pretty good group. Top five, sure. Yeah. And would you think that they have one of the best offensive lines for protection in the league, I'd say the best, that's reasonable. They, Jalen Hurts, during the regular season through for under 200 yards a game.

Well, when they're blasting teams because nobody can stop their offense, who cares? What is this a passing yards thing? Well, Baker Mayfield has more passing yards. He's better. Well, you often use Brock Purdy's passing yards to augment how good he is that, boy, look at he is putting up the numbers. It means something. I like the postseason success.

Brock Purdy's had more postseason success than Lamar Jackson. So has Jalen hurts. And you're just like... Ask yourself this. Tomorrow, every GM can have CJ Strouder Jalen Hertz. Oh, I'm taking Hertz and a heartbeat. I'm taking Stroud and a heartbeat.

And I'm beating you. My team is better. Boy, these are fun off-season discussions. The staff, remember, Jalen Hertz, flashpoint, I can argue that all day. That's fun. All right, let's move on to the NBA, Colin Kevin Durant.

I don't know. They keep saying he's going to be moved. Brian Winhorse says it's coming before the draft. You're reading stuff. I'm pretty sure all of this is planted by Durant's guy, Rich Clyman. The Knicks are interested. By the way, Shams is tight with Rich Climman. Go look at all the news he's broke on him.

I mean, you don't have to be a superstar math major to realize, oh, look, let me connect the dots. Everything coming from Shams is planted by KD's camp, which is why we're hearing rockets and spurs. Now we're hearing Timberwolves. We're even hearing heat. Kevin Durant wants out badly. He wants to get it done before Janus.

He doesn't want to have to wait. And Colin, there are some odds here on his next team. The spurs are now minus 160. Now, you cannot lay the lumber on this. Personally, I wouldn't. Would you trade for Kevin Durant at 37 or Janus in his prime? Like, I just make no sense. Yeah, Janus is, yeah, I mean, he's wildly productive on both ends.

But you're not going to have to give up as much to get. Kevin Durant. And I think those teams on that list, like the Rockets, Knicks, and T-Wolves feel like they need a tweak, not an overhaul. So those are good teams. Spurs, I don't know. I think KD is about as good a guy as you can break. He doesn't have a huge ego. He doesn't need the ball in his hands.

He's highly effective. He still gives you 25. I got to know, I'm a KD guy, so I like him. You like arguing online with social media, random people, like all the time? Not delivering in the playoffs lately? It doesn't matter. I don't care that he does that. It doesn't bother me.

KD is actually pretty social online. I'm not. It's not my game, but it doesn't bother me. There are a lot of people in the celebrity space that are active on their, you know, TikTok and EIG. I'm not. A lot of people are. I'm not going to blame somebody much younger than me for that.

Final story, Colin, Major League Baseball, the Dodgers are starting to show kind of some shinks in the armor here in the pitching staff. It's not looking good at all, but there is good news on the horizon. Shohay Otani pitched a three-inning simulated game yesterday. Colin Dave Roberts told reporters, O'Tani is nearing return, and he wouldn't rule out Otani pitching before the All-Star game next month. That is shocking to me. And here's why.

Look at the Dodgers pitching staff this season. you are seeing just not good. I mean, they are bottom 10 in many of these stats. That's a bit of a surprise. You love this team coming in, Colin. A little overwhelming so far? Well, I mean, I think everybody loved it, but they had, you know, they're playing by a different set of parameters

because of their financial gap in the system. So, I mean, they brought in some pitchers who had a history of injuries. They're all about August, September, and October. The Dodgers, it's just different. So, you know, and the regular season is long. They're all about getting Snell and the kid from, is it a class now, you know, O-Tani. Yeah, this is all about September. I think they'll be fine.

You know, the last couple of years, they've had these sort of soft three-week stretches, and it's almost always been a lack of available arms. So I feel like we're just kind of going through the same. I mean, these seasons are so long. I don't, I mean, even in the NFL, they're going to 18 games probably by next year. How valuable will September be? You know, it used to be if you're 0 and 2, you don't make the playoffs. In an 18 game schedule, it's just not going to matter.

I mean, even in college football, Ohio State lost at home is a huge favor of Michigan. They made the playoffs and won an addie. So I just think the longer the season, these minor disruptions don't matter as much. And their pitching was dominant against the Yankees in the World Series. they just haven't looked at. Is this a little bit of the Celtics? Remember, the Celtics won the title? And then kind of went through the motions at times this year.

They got passed by the Cavs in the East. Is there a little of that at play? Yeah, I mean, if you kind of look at the big picture of baseball, like Detroit's been surprisingly good. Like, Detroit's been really good. And there's a couple teams, like the Yankees that are a marginal threat. But if you stack the roster and they're healthy, nobody's beating this team.

Nobody's beating the Dodgers. J. Mack for the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. You know what? I was thinking about this. I love mystery when it comes to like a true crime series. I don't love mystery with my quarterbacks.

Remember the Jordan Love were like we didn't see video for three years. I saw this. I know it's just a Minnesota Vikings fan page. I understand I'm not going crazy here. But J.J. McCarthy threw a pick for a third straight day. I haven't, I haven't, you know, my two questions are, I've seen one preseason game. He was good in it, by the way. 11 of 17, 190 yards, a couple of touchdowns, pass a rating like one.

He was very good. I saw the highlights, didn't watch the game live, saw the highlights, it was very good. Then you get the two surgeries, so we don't know what he is. But it is, there's so much mystery here. Why does Minnesota keep flirting with our quarterbacks? and there's too many conflicting reports on J.J. McCarthy. So I just find the whole thing. There's a lot of stuff I just don't know.

I feel sometimes I'm getting a little bit of a spin job here. You know, I will say this is, and I think, J. Mack, you and I have had this discussion, to be a great franchise quarterback. And again, I think Jalen Hertz has probably 10th best in the league, but I do think he's a top 10 franchise quarterback. If you're top 10 in a league of 32 teams, you're good. There's got to be a trait. There has to be a wow trait.

So let's just go through them. Mahomes, arm talent. Alan, sheer force of size. Lamar, athletic ability. Stafford has one of the great arms in the last 30 years in the league. He's got a magical arm. Burrow, composure and accuracy. Like as good as Brady and his prime, if you look at the numbers and analytics.

Herbert, big, strong, power arm. C.J. Stroud. accuracy. Like just, I mean, moving left, moving right, moving forward. C.J. Stroud's accuracy since high school's insane. Hurts, strength, pound for pounds, 600 pound squats. Kyler Murray, elusiveness. You start stacking up these quarterbacks. There's a trait. Like Elway, Arm, Marino, Arm, Aaron Rogers, Arm, Release. What is, go back and look at the people I trust. There's one or two things I never buy. I never buy this.

When you say this about a quarterback, that guy is a winner. Everybody under Jim Harbaugh and Steve Spurrier and Nick Saban's a winner. I don't want to hear that. If you go back and look, his arm is modest, his escapeability is modest, his release wasn't super quick,

there is no great trait. That's why I was always a Darnold fan. Darnold is tough with a big, Big arm. He can be reckless, but there are times you watch Donald. His ability to make big throws while moving is special. I don't get McCarthy's wow trait. Now, I like Jordan Love, but I think Jordan Love has an incredible arm. He's got a whip, and he's also super athletic. I don't see the wow. There's got to be one thing where I'm like, oh, it's always been my knock on Purdy. Now, Purdy, they say cognitively, he's like Superman above the shoulders. Maybe that's

it, but where's the wow with this guy? I was going to ask you, like, Purdy coming out of Iowa State, there was no wow. He gets to the NFL and his processing is wow. So can we see McCarthy play a real game? Not just preseason, not OTAs, can we see him like play a real game? Maybe a trait will emerge. And he was a pretty mobile quarterback. Obviously not Josh Allen on the water.

But, I mean, how about this? There isn't anything he doesn't do well. He has a big arm. He's mobile. He can process. He showed everything at Michigan. Go read the scout. He doesn't have a big arm.

He does not have a big arm. A good enough arm. A good enough NFL. He has, his arm is considered modest. It is a middle of the pack arm, middle of the pack of capability. In fact, they question his release. His release at times could be a little plotting, which was always a darnald knock. And you have to work on that.

You could get better at that. There is no, go look at all the guys, the Lance Zerlines. And these are guys that are fans. It's a lot of, that guy is a winner. He plays with a chip on his shoulder. I could say that about Johnny Mansell and Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow and Johnny Mandel. I mean, remember the Tim Tebow speech after they lost at home to Ole Miss?

We'll never lose again. I do not buy winner. What is that mean? Everybody at Alabama and Ohio State wins. What does that mean? Maybe this is better. He got the stamp of approval from Jim Harbaugh and Kevin O'Connell. Does that mean anything to you?

I mean, you love these guys. You hype them up. By the way, I heard a lot of people tell me how, All the scouts loved him. People moved up for panics. Well, wait, I don't care about the scouts. I care about Jim Harbaugh, an established great coach, and Kevin O'Connell, one of the best young coaches in the league.

I care about them, no disrespect to your scouts, more than scouts. Doesn't that mean anything to you when Jim Harbaugh is like, yeah, I love this. Kevin O'Connell understands the value of words. He is not going to criticize J.J. McCarthy. So you've got to understand that when's the last time a offensive head coach? criticized, I mean, Brian Callahan and Will Levis, he couldn't stand him. By and large, you say nice stuff. I mean, that, you got to read.

Forget about the words. How about the actions? He did, he, they may have considered Rogers. They may have considered Daniel Jones. How about these actions? How about these actions? They wanted to resign Sam Donald. Well, they didn't, though.

But they wanted to. But they got too crises. Well, the people from people I trust. I mean, again, it's, I don't want to hear about guys being winners. I'm not into every Ohio State quarterback in my life's been a winner. Spurrier was down in Florida. Rex Grossman had some real armed talent, but they were all winners. Danny Whirfel was a winner.

What does that mean? Love that guy. Yeah. Well, the Gators, baby. Love that guy. They were fun in the 90s. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show. We never get to everything. Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for.

Yeah, you blubber lips. Blame in me. Well, you know what? It's called Overpromise. You should be good at it. because you've been over-promising women for years? Well, it's a Kavino and Rich After Show, and we want you to be a part of it.

We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Over-Promised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Over-Promised, and also uncensored, by the way.

So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after-show podcast of all time. There you go. Over-promising. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name

Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay.

Jen Chinch win. I mean, she went down at three to. Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One year from today, the biggest FIFA World Cup ever comes to North America, and the countdown starts with a one-year-to-go party live from Miami Friday at 8-7 Central on Fox.

Yeah, so, you know, last night was an abomination. Now, again, the Gold Cup starts this weekend, and it matters. There's 16 countries, and it means something. But when Christian Pulisic said, hey, man, I've gone back-to-back years, A.C. Milan, 50 matches, I'm taking a break. When he doesn't play, turn the sound down. We don't look the same. He's our most creative, most skilled player. And you can talk about Weston McKinney and G. O'Rena and all these guys. It doesn't matter. Pulisic's the star. He drives the bus for our offense. And when he's not playing, we're not the same team attacking. We just don't look the

same. So Tyler Adams is all banged up. No question. We're better than 4-0 at half-time. But what I think last night did show that regardless of what coach we have in, we have a new coach now from Europe, he loves young talent. And the bottom line is he didn't inspire Pulisic, who's a little fatigued to even play. Some of these guys are banged up. They could play. They chose not to. So is that in pending dread? I don't know. But in 23 minutes, to give about four goals shows you how thin our talent pool is. Now listen, other countries don't have the NFL and the NBA and Major League Baseball, but we're also a very large country. But our best athletes do not play soccer. That is without question. That is true. The best athletes in Brazil, where's the money? Soccer.

Our best athletes in America, where's the money? NBA, baseball, NFL, and then maybe soccer. So our best players go to Europe. Europe's best players don't come to the ML. less. So it's just, I do think, and I've said this, I think it's the strongest group of skilled young American talent of my life. And what last night proves is the gap between that and our second tier is the Grand Canyon. We just don't have, again, we have about six really, really good players that I really like, and they're noticeably different. And Spain may have 13. and England may have 11. And so our gap, when Christian Pulisic or Weston McKinney does not play, it is noticeable.

And here was DeMarcus Beasley trailing 4-0, which would be the final score. Here he was at half last night. I've never seen a U.S. team play that poorly and a half of football. I haven't. And forget not being good enough. I mean, they didn't put in a tackle. I'm not saying that they don't want to play the game, but this is your chance to make a way. World Cup spot. This is your kid. There's no police, there's no West McKinney, there's no one.

This is the time to step up and they put out that first 45 minutes. Terrible. And this is, I've been on this for years. It's always the coach because you can fire the coach. And I defended Greg Burhalter. I mean, the fact that we held England scoreless and that we gave up one goal in the group stage in the World Cup was pretty redeemable. And then we played the Netherlands and we were just totally out class. Because they had much older, more experienced players. But even that game was encouraging. It's like, okay, that's the standard.

The Netherlands can win a World Cup or certainly compete. We can't. But in four years, when it's on U.S. soil, can we grow? And the feeling is yes. But maybe one of the downsides, and I'll ask Alexi Lollas next hour, is that more and more of our great players are going to Europe, maybe we have to pivot and transition away from the Gold Cup. is that as now as our best players are facing very rigorous overseas European competition.

That's what Pulisic is arguing, is that the standards changed. It's about making money overseas and then the World Cup. And then maybe Christian Pulisic is onto something that we as Americans can't get into the Gold Cup. It just doesn't matter anymore. If you want our star, if you want America to attract the best stars, then they've got to be able to go over and make a ton of money in Europe and not worry and piddle around with the MLS. Sorry, when's the last MLS,

MLS, once they sign that Apple contract, Apple TV contract, I don't watch as much. It feels like the league is less of a league than it was three to four years ago. And the money's in Europe. So maybe it's just a different time now. The Gold Cup just doesn't matter as much. It's about making money in Europe and the World Cup and being healthy for that.

That is possible. But 16 teams competing in the Gold Cup. I always felt like we were top two or three, and if this is the group, J-MAC, it's just not encouraging. Four goals, 23 minutes is disheartening. And again, this is a coach known in Tottenham of developing very quickly young players. Well, here's our young guys, and that was a mess. So I guess, you know, I will concede two points. Number one, the team seems to lack an identity without Pulisic on the field, as you alluded to.

I don't know what they were. They were just a collection of dudes last night, not passing, working together. They looked like they hadn't had many practices together. And the second one, Colin, that they lack is momentum. You remember last year leaving, or the last World Cup cycle, Canada had all the momentum in the world. They were playing great.

Then they got smoked in the World Cup. So maybe momentum doesn't mean much. But with the Gold Cup this weekend, and for us to kind of, oh, geez, this was like alarming. This was troubling. And you don't have an identity or momentum. I'm not going to go overboard. I'll leave the hot takes for Lola's here shortly.

In my life, we have always been closer to Italy than Brazil. We're not highly skilled. We have great goalkeeping, and if we win against good teams, it's won nothing. You're right? Like, I always felt we were always good in goal. We had solid coaching, but there was a way we would win. We're not getting into a shootout against Argentina or Brazil or Colombia. That's not what we are.

We're not that skill. We don't have that depth of talent. We're like an NBA team with no bench. We've got some really nice players, and they were too young for the last World Cup. But again, the game against England, you're sitting there thinking, we're not that far away.

Then they face the Netherlands, older, mature team, more skilled. They pound us, and they should. But I think what last night showed more than anything is that our talent pool is very, very thin. And when you take out Tyler Adams, and Westa McKinney and Christian Polisic. We don't have a bench.

We want to talk ourselves into it. We just don't. You're missing your entire midfield. Your best attacker. Like you didn't have your World Cup center forward. Like I just, that's the reason I'm like, all right, you know, 4-0 is a drubbing. But we didn't have our guys. You know, it would be like the Nuggets playing without Yokic or something.

You know, if Polisicic is our yokech and he's not that good, but he's our best guy. I don't know. I'm sure Lollos is going to say something like, listen, If we don't get out of the group stage at the Gold Cup, maybe we move on from the coach that quickly. I don't know. But we got to show up this week, and I think we do. I'll call it 3-0 over Trinidad and Tobago.

That's very, it's very, you're very optimistic. I mean, I was just, it's one of those where we have not beaten a European team. What was the stat since 2021? Yeah. That's, that's disheartening. It's like seven masters, though. I mean. Well, it's old for seven.

That's something. You want to have to go to O. To 13? I mean, like, where do we have to go? Like, it just feels like, I don't blame Pulisic. The money is A.C. Malon. The kid's going to have, he's got generational wealth.

He's not going to worry. I'm sure you saw Pulisic's dad versus Landed Donovan online, which was interesting. Landon Donovan kind of Rick Pulisic without saying his name. And Polisick's dad was like, dude, you did the same thing. You know, so it's got a great beat for soccer. I get our players, Karen. about two things. European money in the World Cup and not the Gold Cup.

Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but

you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless.

And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French win. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubb's tennis podcast on the IHart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was funny. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to. You know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.