The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 2 - Rodgers, NFL

Episode Date: March 30, 2022

Is Aaron Rodgers' legacy set?Some of the best QBs of all timeGuest: Brock Huard Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I don't think there's a more important year for black. people listen to look back at it on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts thanks for listening to the herd podcast be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to three eastern nine to noon pacific on fox sports radio and fs one find your local station for the herd at fox sports radio dot com or stream us live every day on the i heart radio app by searching herd we're listening to fox sports radio welcome in it's our number two live in Los Angeles. It's the herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me back from Paris. Got me into that bug.

Anne and I are doing our first big European trip together in May after the NFL draft. Very exciting. You've been there. My kids have been there last year. Yeah. But my kids have been there. I haven't. You are going to love it. We're comfortable shoes. Yeah. What you do anyway. That's my rule for life. That's your jam. Wear comfortable shoes. Yeah, this is going to be the year of travel for Anna and I. Outside of the pandemic, you know, like everybody else in America, we wanted out. And so this is kind of...

Yeah, I will say, I mean, I travel a lot, obviously, more than normal. Everybody is out. Everywhere. I mean, we've been inside. Sure. And now people, it's safer now to travel, and people are excited. And it's nice, because everyone's kind of being nice to each other now, nicer to each other while travel. Normally it's very like...

The airlines now are asking the president, can we move past the masks? Let's move past that. I think it's time. That's the next step, yes. Although I will say I am a mouth breather when I sleep on airlines. So I'm like... All right.

So I don't really mind the masks. A lot of information there. America's now got that in their head, Joy. Yeah, I saw this. It's an interesting situation. The Ravens would like to sign Lamar Jackson, but Lamar's... mom is his agent and he hasn't called back.

And there's this, everybody's like, wait, time out. Now, obviously he may be waiting, push, push, push, betting on himself to get more money. Lamar Jackson is, there is no comp for him in the NFL. Like, Kyler Murray kind of plays like Russell Wilson. There's a lot of comps. Josh Allen reminds me a big Ben in his first three years. There's a lot of comps. There is no comp for Lamar Jackson.

He's got two qualities I love. He wins a lot of games and he's so deeply. cares about winning. I'm not going to mention names, but a lot of guys run it for the money and the fame. He deeply cares about winning. His style is interesting. I've talked to scouts about this. They don't think he'll necessarily age well. And I think Baltimore's like, listen, we'd rather pay him big now. What we don't want to do is get into a Matt Ryan situation where we feel a little trapped at the end because, I mean, he'll stretch for the extra yards. He'll take shots. He's not Russell Wilson avoiding stuff. He'll take shots. He tends to be best. He tends to be

better with a lead than coming from behind. You know, he can pass the ball better than his critics, say, but he's not a, it's not Justin Herbert or Mahalms looking. So there's nothing quite like him in the league. I would sign him because he wins a lot. He deeply cares. And by the way, I mean, you can see a lot of stars in sports. A lot of them care.

They just care about the wrong stuff. He cares about the right stuff. I think Dak deep down. I understood why Dak took the money. He played for free for like three to four years for the biggest brand in America. he got them to the playoffs twice. Like I got, I got Dax saying,

come on now, you paid Zeke, you paid the left tackle, you pay an Amari, this is the Cowboys. It's the biggest brand. Like, I get certain guys.

I think Burl will take a pay cut. Josh Allen, not pay cut, Burl will do a team-friendly deal. Stafford did. Mahomes did. Josh Allen did. I think Lamar has that kind of DNA.

Like, he wants to win games. He's not looking for the last dollar. That's just not who he is. But it is interesting. there are athletes. Like when LeBron was in his prime, I would have signed him to a 12-year deal. That body and the way he took care of it,

Brady was practicing getting sacked seven years ago. But there are athletes out there. When Cam Newton jumped into the league, it was very obvious he was going to run really hot and it wasn't going to last really long. He just took too many shots. That was a meteor. Lamar, who I've always liked way more than Cam,

because I think he cares about the right stuff. Cam always didn't. He's going to age better than Cam. First of all, he's harder to hit because there's nothing else like him. He's so elusive. But I do think what Baltimore would like to do, I think they'd like to sign him now and start the contract now. Because I do think they have concerns about, hey, now he's going into his fifth year. He's hurt.

And so, but I will say this. There's all this, you know, polarization and consternation with Lamar Jackson. Folks, a couple rules. You know, like in any business, do people care of? about the right things. He so cares about winning football games. Tony Gonzalez, who used to work here, sat on this couch, and I asked him one time, how many players love football?

And he said, 3%. That seems low. Lamar's one of the three. He literally, they've had to go to him and say, stop working out on jet skis in the offseason. He is so competitive and so into it. If you get him near a beach or a jet ski, he's like, let's go. I love that part of him. He is hyper competitive, wants to win, cares about football, so I'd pay him. But I do think they look at it and think, we'd rather pay him now and get this going.

Because Atlanta got a little trapped with the erosion of Matt Ryan. You're going to pay $45 million for Matt. He's on another team. And you see in baseball and basketball a lot, teams get trapped with contracts. You don't see it in the NFL. You really don't. Like Matt Ryan's a rarity. They would have loved to have moved off that thing about two years ago. Now, Matt's going to be fine in Indianapolis, but he's not the kind of quarterback with a battle line, limited skill people that can carry you. He's just not at this point in his career.

Brock Heward played six years in the NFL, teammate of Peyton Manning in Indianapolis, just wrote a story about Russell Wilson and the Hawks. You know, it's interesting. You've been so close to that organization. Now you live in Denver, and so, you know, Russell's following you. So let's start with this. You went out and surveyed and interviewed a bunch of insiders around the NFL on the Russell Wilson-Pek-Carril stuff. what did they say? What was your conclusion from all the people you talk to? Yeah, Colin, thank you for having me. Also, by the way, Joy and I have something in common.

What? We're mouth breathers. And she's right. On a plane, that mask can capture the drool, like when you're sleeping and your mouth open. I just want to get that out there. Yeah, Colin, I did. I reached out to about 30 different people. Heard back from most. And I think two things jumped out. Number one, and this wasn't just pro Seahawks media. I really tried to get a national players, former players, coaches, executives. She tried to get a broad reach. And I would say more than half of the responses cited a little bit more with the Seahawks saying, yep. Wow. It was time.

It was time for the Seahawks. You were not going to repair the relationship. And I think the other thing woven almost amidst all of the answers, Colin, was it was Russell's legacy versus Pete's philosophy, that Russell right now wants to capture his legacy. One of our peers at Fox wrote me back and said, and one of the most telling images was at the Super Bowl with Tom Brady a couple years ago. And I remember this too, and it jumped out to me when Russ is sitting in the commissioner's booth with Godell,

watching that game. And you could see the look on his face like, man, Tom is everything that I desire and strive to be. I want to be the greatest. I want to be winning these Super Bowls. And it was almost at that moment. And if you remember, it wasn't that long after with Dan Patrick and that he went on the warpath saying, hey, I need help. I need stars.

I need more things, things that kind of were opposite of his brand. And I think it was that moment that he took his legacy and said, I want it in my hands. And I want the best situation. And the best situation is not going to be playing under Pete's philosophy moving forward. So I've taken more of the Russell's side. basically the Seahawks have drafted very, very poorly over the last five or six years. And in a weapons league, they got a bad O-line, second-tier running backs, and outside of D.K.

Metcalfe lock it a little. They need more weapons. They're kind of average at tight end, average at running back, average O-line. And that's why, by the way, I think he chose Denver. Do you see any problems going forward in Denver? Because if you're talking to these people, and it sounds like he's almost too aspirational, that gets in the way of stuff. Do you see any problems ahead for the Broncos and Russell Wilson?

Well, I think that falls on number three. And I think this is a restart. This is a redo. This is an opportunity. You just got done talking about players that deeply care. And Russell deeply cares about what? About winning. So much so that he named his third child, win.

Right? And that's not a joke. That's his son's name. The son's name is win. W-I-N. That's what he cares about. But I think at times, And part of this was the Seattle locker room calling that he came into.

Remember when he was drafted as a third rounder, there was Matt Flynn, there's T-Jack, beloved by teammates, and here's the guy that just can't do wrong. And the guy that's an overachiever and is all about winning from 5 a.m. in the morning until 10 p.m. at night, doing whatever, right? No time to sleep. And I think there was with Marshaun and Richard and Earl and that whole cast of characters in that locker room, Michael Bennett, it was tough for him to connect. And I think that is the single biggest thing.

You mentioned that I backed up Peyton Manning, and I did. And I watched over time because of Peyton's relentlessness and his competitiveness, it brought people together. He had a reset, Peyton Manon, when he went to Denver. And he said, you know what, I'm going to bring this thing together. It's going to be my offense. It's going to be our team, but it's going to be a lot of my offense. And I'm going to connect.

I really believe, Colin, in this next phase of Russell's life. And I hope someone says this to him in his camp and his team says, Russell. I know winning is the most important. I know you drive and you're a worker. I know you just had all these dudes out to your place in San Diego putting on Camp Bronco, but you need to connect. You need to listen. And frankly, Colin, one of your great strengths knowing you these years is I don't know if there's a better listener. You know, Joy can attest to this, your producers, people around you. When you are engaged, you just listen. Like you want to learn. Russell will work. Russell is driven. Russell's all of these things.

But Russell, I think, needs to take this reset opportunity to listen to teammates, to connect, to bond with them in a way that he's got a real opportunity to do so, I think even more so than he did in Seattle. You know, we looked at, we had a chart the other day. We put up all these quarterback moves, and people are just very aggressive on it. Decisions, you know, these are now, I've said this, Brock, is that it used to be when you played, let's say like the Nordstroms, we grew up with the Nordstroms, the clothing retailer in Seattle, that, you know, people that owned NFL teams had a $400 million net worth.

Now, I mean, for some of these people, it's a rounding error. I mean, they just write $50 million checks to get somebody out of the building, somebody into the building. They're just, this wealth creates urgency. Let's just start over. So the Carson Wentz, Matt Ryan, things fascinating. Jim Erse came out yesterday. It was very public. He's like, I talked to veterans.

something was wrong in that locker room. I didn't like the move initially. And then I read it and I was like, okay, I get it. Take me to your six years and all your insight in the NFL. Can you even guess what it was with Carson Wentz? It can't all be the facts thing. What was it that went wrong?

It was just when I got done talking about with Russell to a degree, Colin, a much heightened degree because Russell, right,'s got pelts on the wall and one of the greatest to play and won a Super Bowl and nearly a second and everything else. But it's that connective tissue, right? I think when I was on with you last, we talked about Matthew Stafford

and how Sean McVeigh said he had the highest relational quotient, the ability to connect with any teammate, young, old, rich, poor, rookie vet. It didn't matter. That Stafford just had this ability to connect, to listen, to be present with his teammates. That's what Tom Brady still has 20-some years into this thing. It's remarkable, right?

I mean, he just is glue, and you need to have some of that. And it gets hard. And I think in today's day and age, it's harder than ever, Colin, why? Because not only are owners urgent, you know who else is urgent? Players. Players switch middle school teams. I learned this. Do you know down in Georgia, they put up billboards.

This is true for the highest prospect middle schoolers. like come to our middle school and so-and-so is going to our high school. Like it starts in middle school with players, I want to go there. I want to go to that school. I want to move. I want to be what's best for my legacy. Then it's high school. Then it's club teams.

Then it's college. And does it surprise us that now in the pros like Deshaun Watson's like I'm out? Tyler Murray's making waves. Russell Wilson, Tom Brady. I'm out. So I think that urgency goes both sides. But from Carson's standpoint in particular and why Matt Ryan was so attractive, who's Matt Ryan good buddies with? Matt Stappard. What do they have in common? They connect with people.

And I think that's why Jim Ursay said this week, man, we needed this so badly. We need someone to bring everybody together because since Andrew Luck, they're really difficult to find that. You know, it's an interesting story that hasn't closed yet is this Bobby Wagner story. So Bobby's terrific. He's a Hall of Famer. He's great. A lot of collisions all those years. He still plays at a high level. And Joe and I talk about this all the time. I'd never tell a guy to take less money. But when Dwayne Wade, I'll kind of throw my theory out, when Dwayne Wade left Miami for Chicago, I said, no, no, no, don't.

You lived in a state with no state tax. You had the greatest GM in league history, arguably Pat Riley. You had a great coach. You had so many gifts. And also, players want to play in Miami. Don't go for the money. I look at Bobby Wagner and I'm like, no state tax. Part of a greatest defense in the last 20 years.

he won a Super Bowl. It can't be money now. It has to be. And he could go to the Rams with Aaron Donald and Greg Gaines in front of him, getting doubled wide open. So take me, you know Bobby a little bit, right? Like the Seahawks. He is a really good player still.

Take me into the mind of pro athletes. Does the money thing get sensitive when you talk about it? Or how do they view it? Like, how do you think Bobby Wagner's thinking on this? well once again a very different world from the world i played in last century and that's not a joke i played last century but like last century it was marvin demoff right it was lee steinberg it was the bigwig agents it was those guys that did so much the communication you just got done saying who's lamar jackson's agent his mom yeah who's who's bobby's agent bobby bobby bobby's his agent

You know, Richard Sherman was his agent. It's player empowerment. Like I want, and I get it, man. I want to bring it in-house. I want to take care of my business, but it gets hard. Does it get sensitive? What was your question? Is it delicate with money? Absolutely. And then when you represent yourself, Colin, how much more challenging can that be? You know, you need that sounding board. You need a Marvin Demont to say, no, no, brought you wrong on that. That's just, that's not the way to look at it. No, here's my 30 years of wisdom. Here's all the people I know, the relationships that I have. those connections that we talked about. Here's intel that you're not going to get on your own. You're not going to get that. Further, you need a sounding board, I think, of so much wisdom to speak into you and say, yeah, to your point, Colin, like, this is the best fit, man. This is the way in the final years to go out of Super Bowl champ again, and you're from Southern California.

And it may mean a million less, two million less, but how much more can you make that up on the backside? Those are the delicate conversations that I do think there's a place in time for wisdom and experience and a veteran agent. Yeah. Brock Heward, Fox Sports Football analyst. Okay, I'll just ask you this, because you do it. You've done a lot of college football. My rule is always, unless there's a star quarterback and maybe a pass rusher,

those are valuable and you get about one great one of draft. Chase Young, Abosa, Miles Garrett, just stay there. So I would take Aidan Hutchison first. Now, I think the Iowa center, and maybe as good as any player I saw, but you're not going to take a center, right, number one. Give me the two best football players in college football you saw this year. Oh, man. That's a good question, Colin. As we get closer to the draft, I like to just put my list together of just favorite players.

Just flat out like, this dude loves to play ball. It's what you started this segment with, right? Like this guy just, man, he's got it. It's what Gonzalez said to you when 3%, I think 3% is a little low of guys that love football. I usually hear like 10 or 20%, but I want that. I want that guy that just loves ball. Aiden Hutchinson loves football.

Yes, loves football, man. And to go to Detroit and to do it in Michigan, it would be the impetus to turn it around and everything else there. Like that is just, that's almost written, right? But I'll tell you, there's a couple running backs. And we saw Jonathan Taylor, Right. We saw what he did this year. Why and how he fell in the draft was ridiculous because you watch him in college and go, this dude's elite. Brees Hall is elite. Kenneth Walker is elite. Those two are going to go someplace and they're going to be difference makers in those programs.

You don't take a running back one. You don't take them in the top 10. But those are two on my list I saw in person where, oh my gosh, look at what he did to Iowa State. Yeah. Look at what he did in Michigan State in one year to turn around. So those are two dudes right there for sure. They're saying it's a draft filled with, after about six picks, it's a draft filled with second round picks. By the way, all good starters, all potential. Aidan Hutchison's the best player I saw. After that, there's a lot of coin flips to me. I would move down.

I have one exception, one team on that. But Brock Heward, Fox Sports, great seeing you. By the way, check out his article about Russell Wilson. It's northwest.com. And he went and found 30 people. And it's fascinating. I read it this morning. It's good stuff.

Good to seeing you, man. Thank you, Colin. Be well. See you, Troy. You bet. Yeah, usually I talk a ton of the draft in March, and I'm not this year. It is what you're going to find is there's one team that I think should move up. My theory on this whole thing, like if I'm the number one pick, Jacksonville, I'll take Aidan Hutchinson.

Everybody else I'd move down. I would just, Detroit, there's a story today. Detroit wants to move down. That's really smart. This is the draft to move down. So there's one great edge rusher. There's no great quarterback. I mean, like the Lions could, you know, it's a very good offensive tackle draft.

They have two good offensive tackle, so they don't need that. But there is, and I'll get to this on the other side. There is one team that I would absolutely, I would move up in the draft. And I think they could hit a home run. And their fan base may not like me, but I think I'm running. right about this. That's coming up. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite

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And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and

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now. The USFL is coming, starting on April 16th and kicks off with a historic inaugural game as the New Jersey generals take on the Birmingham Stallions in primetime on Fox and NBC. We're just saying the draft is in late April. Detroit, according to stories today, the lions are looking to move down in the draft, which I think is the right thing to do. Move down in the draft overwhelmingly unless you need a quarterback and there's a great prospect

or you need a pass rusher and there's a great one. So Jacksonville's got their quarterback. They're trying to upgrade weapons. They paid for him. Aidan Hutchison, number one pick. Go get him. He's a great rush end. Relentless motor. He's great. Detroit's at two. They should move down. the only team in the first round I look at and I think I would move up. Philadelphia is in a very interesting space. They have the 15th, 16th, and 19th picks. And what they really need is a wide receiver because they took one in the first round a couple years ago, Jalen Rager, and he has been pretty close to a bust.

And if you're going to give Jalen Hertz a fair shot, and I always said this about Baker, you know, Daniel Jones, go get Kenny Golliday just to see if he can play. But then don't get stubborn if you bring in Kenny Golliday and Daniel Jones, and he don't connect, don't get stubborn, move off the quarterback. But if you want to figure out if Jalen Hertz can play, go get him a star receiver. And there's about four sort of can't miss receivers in this draft. I would have no problem moving up to get one of those, giving away my picks. So that's their big need.

There's a lot of good receivers, but there's three or four that are really special. And there's an argument you may be able to get one at 15, but if three of them get yanked off the board at about 12, 13, you may want to give one of those picks up. and get that wide receiver. Because Philadelphia made the playoffs with Jalen Hertz, and it was kind of a rebuilding roster. So they've upgraded the roster in Free Agency. They went and got Hassan Reddick, a great pass rusher. They've got their quarterback for the near future.

They need weapons. So that Philadelphia is a give up a pick, go up. Generally, I'm going to move down in the draft. But, you know, if you feel you're close and, you know, you can win a Super Bowl without a first round pick. Philadelphia is not currently in that space. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, no, turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. Well, the Packers are looking for a new number one target. Maybe a two as well. After the exit of Devonze Adams to the Raiders, head coach Matt LaFleur said despite Green Bay's interest in Devonze staying, the trade was driven by him and his desire to leave. So the Packers decides you write by Adams and reunite him with Derek Carr in Vegas, but LaFleur doesn't want to second guess the decision. Yeah, that was just,

Again, one of those things that those decisions are never easy to make. And unfortunately, it was one that, you know, we had to come to. I think a lot of it was driven by DeVante, I would tell you. But, you know, there's no sense in looking back on it. It's just we're moving forward. And we appreciate everything he's done, obviously. it's a lot to replace in terms of the production and the type of leader that he was for us. By the way, they lost Marquis Valde Staling, who gives you about six touchdowns and is one of the fastest players in the league.

So it's easy to just say it's Devante, but they lost kind of a home run over-the-top weapon. Now, Aaron may not throw to him as much as Marquise would like, but they lost their fastest receiver and their most productive receiver. And now it's Amari Rogers, who's a slot guy, and he could be good. He didn't play much last year. and he's more return guy. It's, they got Randall Cobb, more of a slot guy, and Amari Rogers. So they need two home runs in the draft.

Matlithor said they're looking for a legit guy that can take the top off of coverage to replace Adams. So here's my guess, D.K. Metcalf. So if Seattle's in a total rebuild and wants the number one pick in the draft. Seattle said D.K. is a part of their future. All right. Well, they said Bobby Wagner and Russell were part of their future, right?

If D.K. Metcalf to Green Bay and give us both. Yeah, Seattle needs picks. By the way, so they got Seattle didn't have picks. Now they have picks with Russell. Yeah. Could you go to Green Bay and say, you're desperate for a receiver? We have the last one on the market. We want both your first round picks.

And Seattle then would have how many first round picks, three? That's a way to rebuild. And Seattle's a team that, unlike the Rams, needs as many picks as they can get as they're in a rebuild. Yeah, no, I like that. I don't know that Seattle is going to do that. But, you know, I think about this situation in Green Bay. And I was done with them being a Super Bowl contender after this year, regardless of whether Devante stayed or left,

because I just think I've seen enough of this story. And they were up against the cap. So there were too many pieces that were going to have to move around. A team is not the same year to year just because you have the same quarterback and coach. Personnel around you matters. But is Aaron's legacy set? Is it set? Because if he doesn't win another Super Bowl...

Well, they're totally out of the Super Bowl window. I don't believe that they will. No, I think his legacy... He might. He might. I don't know, depending on how much longer he plays. But I don't think he will win another Super Bowl in Greenback. No.

And it's a good question because six years ago, Tommy was in New England and Aaron was closer to a Super Bowl win. There were a lot of people that, you know, were saying he may be a goat because we suspect that he'd win more Super Bowls. I think Aaron's money grab on the contract and two receivers leave and the story is out that he and Devante weren't close. I think his legacy is muddier today. I think his legacy is about Aaron now is about Aaron.

I think the VACs didn't help. Especially after last year or how everything went. Yeah, no, I think you have to be totally honest with it. He has been a disappointing playoff quarterback. Right. he's had multiple. The way that this season ended, again, I maintain, it is fascinating to me.

It was just like, oh, well, they lost. It was a catastrophe how the season ended. So this is my, I said this years ago, and it was considered a hot take. What happens if Stafford's next five years include two more Super Bowls and Aaron's none? What are we going to say? You know what we're going to say? Stafford is better than Aaron. You think that's ridiculous.

But Stafford, in five years with the Rams, if he won three Super Bowls, you'd be like, here's his legacy. Can you imagine if he played there for 10 years where Aaron did get the Cadillac right out of college? He got Farr, he got mentorship. So it's a very good question. I don't think the two old quarterbacks in this league, the legacy is not set. Stafford and Rogers. And remember, Stafford was a better high school quarterback, a better college.

quarterback and for the first four years in the NFL, the better NFL quarterback, then he couldn't overcome the nonsense with the Lions. And people are going to argue the regular season MVP's. And I'm not going to push back on that. He is an excellent regular season quarterback with an extreme talent. But I think you got to win more in the postseason. By way, he's losing home off-of-by playoff games. They had one scoring drive.

So you told me McCarthy was the problem. You shipped him out of town. And this has been my argument. Is McCarthy that much worse than Lafleur, or is the division so bad that LaFleur's records bearer? McCarthy coached the Packers. The Bears got to a Super Bowl. The Vikings really peaked. And Jim Caldwell and Stafford in four years together had three winning seasons and two playoff bursts.

The division now is the worst division in football. But I do think it's going to be better this year than it was last year. LaFleur is not winning more. He's beating the NFC Northmore. You're not doing anything in the postseason. So this idea you shipped out, it was all Mike McCarthy's fault. You're bringing the new coach. Nothing's changed.

We're disappointed. Winning regular season games. You're moody. You're more about, you know, you're more about Aaron than winning. No one's questioning his talents. That's never been the issue. But I do think if you're going to be in that extra legacy space, you've got to have the, with what you have around you and the stability that you have around you,

I think you have to do more winning in the postseason. So Lamar Jackson is one of the quarterbacks coming up on a big contract. He's in the fifth year of his rookie deal entering the 2022 season. Baltimore would like to sign him to an extension. And Ravens owner, Steve Vashati, said that Lamar hasn't been interested in negotiating a deal. Unless he has a change of heart and calls Eric and says, I'm ready. But it's like Eric can't keep calling him going, hey, Lamar, you really need to get in here and get this thing done. It's not a GM's job.

So it's unique because everybody instructs you to say, I got to get mine now. And the kid is so obsessed with winning a Super Bowl that I think deep down he doesn't think he's worthy. I think he wants that to say, now I deserve to be on top. I don't think he is turned on by money that much and he knows it's coming one way or the other. Yeah, see, I don't think he's a money guy either. I don't think Joe Burrow is. I don't think Herbert is. I don't think there are guys and we know who they are.

But I don't think Josh Allen is. I don't think Mahomes is. And to be clear, there's nothing wrong with being a money guy. This is what you do for a living. So if you want to make all the money in the world, I have no problem with it. I have no problem with Aaron's contract. But I do think it changes his legacy if they don't win. Yeah, it changes what they can do.

He's a 13.5% cap hit. Yes. Like, that's what the facts are. But I have no problem with it. Make all the money you want. This is what you do. for a living. He's not represented by a traditional sports agent. His mother and other enlisted advisors are handling this and his career, which also have no problem with. I think people get panicky

about the contract. He tweeted, I love my Ravens. I don't know who the hell putting that false narrative out that I'm having thoughts about leaving. Stop trying to read my mind. Look at his little moji. I would agree with Bashati. I mean, I'm sure they have conversations. It's his starting quarterback. He said this a very really key thing. I don't think he's a money guy. Right. Now, I don't think he thinks he's not deserving of the money. Like, he doesn't think he's worthy. But if you have enough money and you are focused on other things and you know that that money is going to come regardless, then perhaps you're just not stressed about putting the contract together.

Right. Also, if, say, Lamar goes out and wins a Super Bowl this year, which is entirely possible, he's going to be in that conversation that Bashati was worried about that we discussed earlier, which is the, you know, fully guaranteed contract, which, by the way, I think is going to become much more common for a quarter of as their value continues to rise, you're going to see more and more of quarterbacks contracts guaranteed. It's not going to be that outrageous, even though, you know, Deshaun was the first one to get it. So Christian Pulisic and the U.S. men's national team are on the verge. Stay at home. This is clarity. No cocktail night. Clarity. Got to be able to see and perceive what is happening in real time. Is it a nacho night? It might be. Can't be, yeah. Can't do chicken parm. I'd crash by 645.

Well, they're on the verge of qualifying for the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar, and they match with Costa Rica in the final qualifier tonight. They're huge favorites to lock up a spot after failing to qualify in 2018, which we will not bring up again. And they have a lot of leeway. They can make it as long as they don't lose by more than five goals. My guess is they'll like lose tonight two to one or draw. It'll be low scoring. They're going to play very defensive soccer, clear the ball out of their end. just eat the clock.

You know, so I think it's going to be a low-scoring, uneventful night. Sometimes, you know, the Mexico draw. It's not the world's worst thing. Draw would be great tonight. One-one draw. There we go. But I think they're going to play very, it'll be interesting because Berhalter, he'll be, he can be aggressive, and he has his point of view on how to do this thing.

It'd be interesting if they came out hyper-aggressive and said, no, we're not here because do you want to send the message to the team, let's go passive? Because it's hard to go into a game. Well, I don't think going defensive is going passive. It's smart. Just. Yeah, look. You missed the World Cup last time, all right?

Just don't do anything to mess this up. If they lose six nothing tonight, this building, please no trespassing signs tomorrow. They'll close the building. Clear that energy out of here. Get out of here. No way. We cannot have that.

You can also watch the final draw for the 2022 FIFA World Cup Friday. at 11.30 a.m. Eastern. Right here on FS1, I believe that we will win. I'm happy for Canada, too. You're so nice. I am happy for Canada. They're not, you know what?

They don't even win Stanley Cups anymore, so I feel bad for our neighbors to the north. I would like to focus on our neighbors here States first. Let's do it tonight, men. Such a global citizen. I am too, but we're worried about the U.S. Men's National Team tonight.

All right. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Mike Check. Mike Check.

Do you want exclusive insight from the biggest names in the sports game? What's good? This is national champion and former pro baller Chris Johnson. Let me tell you a little bit about my new series, KJ Live. KJ Live is the only show featuring me going one-on-one with the brightest basketball minds on the planet to get the real. And when I say real, I mean that real. I got legendary Hall of Famers, elite coaches, and the top basketball insiders

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Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep. That's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

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Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

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Or we already did it, right? Yep. Oh, that's my bad. Sorry. You always make you panic when you do that. I'm like, oh, God. I'm not ready. So you said something before the break that's interesting to me.

So you said, Aaron Rogers' legacy is it set yet? And I think we both said, no, it's not. If he plays five more years, no Super Bowls. We're like, dude, you took the money. You didn't connect with people. Matt Stafford, I don't think, has a legacy that, is full yet. So if I, I'll give you an athlete and you tell me, is the legacy set? Okay.

Anthony Davis Lakers. No. See, I think it's set. You think it's, you think his story is done? Yeah, I think with the Lakers or just the general. No, I think his story is complete. Most talented basketball player Kentucky's ever had. Injury. Riddle. Issues. Limit his NBA success, one title. And I think, yeah, not totally. committed, the most talented Kentucky player ever, an NBA disappointment. Didn't have the leadership or the commitment or the body to be as dominant as he was in college. See, I think he could play for long enough after this Lakers stint to win another. Let's say he plays for five more years within our team.

Do you think anything I just said will not be, will he be more committed? I think he will continue to be injured because that's what he is. But could he win another title and that changed things? I think so. So would it change things? I think one is different than, I mean, I think two is different than one. Multiple titles put you in a different category, I think. All right.

So Anthony Davis. Especially if he wins one away from LeBron James. Okay. Janus. I think it's set. Yes. So do why. He's going to be the greatest player in the league for probably a decade.

Yes. And he's already probably been it for one or two or three. Kevin Durant. I think it's set, yes. I think it's set too. Kind of a wanderer. Great offensive. of talent, kind of brittle,

second best player for a long time to LeBron. I don't think that can change. And I also think his environment now with Brooklyn and Kyrie, it's not going to change. Yeah, I mean, if he didn't win another title, it's not going to change my opinion of him. He's a multiple-time champion. You could argue greatest offensive player for a decade.

Yes. But not more of a wander personality-wise. All right, let me think of one more NFL, NFL player. OBJ. Yeah, I think it's set. Yeah. Especially now that he has a Super Bowl and he contributed to that Super Bowl. Yeah.

Injured, injured, injured, really talented. Massive star, first NBA player in the NFL level star. All right. Patrick Mahomes. No. I think he has more ahead of him. I think he has a long runway. If I get two more Super Bowls, like right now he's not a top 10 quarterback ever.

I know Nick Wright would tell you was there after his rookie year when he played a single. game, but I think if you give him two more Super Bowls in 10 years, he would move into my top 10 quarterbacks of all time. Yeah, I agree. He has more to win. So top 10 quarterbacks all time. So let's just get Peyton Manning, Elway, Marino, Brady, Montana. That's your five. Then we can argue about the rest. He would absolutely, you know, Farvin Rogers are around there. You know, Bradshaw is five of them. I think he would, but Breeze is around there somewhere. we've only got, when you talk about greatest quarterbacks ever, there's only five we all agree on. There's Brady, Montana, Peyton Manning, Elway.

And if you didn't see Dan Marino play, I don't care that he doesn't have a Super Bowl. He's one of the five best quarterbacks of all time, period. That's like Charles Barkley. If you didn't see Charles play in his prime, I don't care. He was literally could score down low in transition. He's a better perimeter shooter than Michael Jordan. He had more range. Like titles are not everything.

Reno is one of the five best quarterbacks I've ever seen in life. They are, but they are something. And I think when you're talking about the greatest, specifically what this conversation started with Aaron Rogers, the amount of time that he's played with one organization, with the talent that he's played with, and then this past year with the drama, and then leading up to Devante Adams leaving

and this contract on top of the way that the season ended, being the number one seat in the NFC. After all of that, I just feel like he's got to win another Super Bowl. for to really cement that. Not that he's not an all-time talent. You're talking Aaron. Yes.

Yeah. I think he's going to be remembered. And I also think. And fairly so as a great regular season quarterback. The other thing is he's had the vaccination thing was dramatic. The contract's dramatic. Will Smith has had a great career. But that was such a dramatic moment at the Oscars.

It's going to overshadow everything he's ever done, which is really the sad part of it. He's had a remarkable career. The slap is how he'll be defined. and Aaron's he put out a lot of highly prolific public moments and they're going to start nibbling away at, I mean, when you sign a $50 million contract and Devante Adams doesn't stay and it's like, that's, I'm not going to forget that. I'm not going to forget that VAC stuff. I'm not going to forget the offseason of drama. Like those are big, memorable. They're sticky.

And I think it's a really good question. He and Stafford to me, we could have a completely different view of those two quarterbacks in five years. Russell Wilson, I think a lot of it's formed. My guess is, if you just look at the components and the GM now, we're going to think more. There's still a little bit of doubt with Russell. There's doubters. I don't think there will be in three years. All right, hour three is around the corner.

Good stuff today. Live in LA, it's the herd. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite on humor. with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encourage. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan,

so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tantons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense

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And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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