The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Shedeur Sanders

Episode Date: June 20, 2025

More on the NBA Finals and why all the pressure is on the Thunder for game 7 Colin talks about Browns QB Shedeur Sanders starting to be a distraction for the team   Guest: Eric Mangini See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit, season two, is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority of black city, in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit season two on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Turn someday into right now with Buddy by Jake Radio, nonstop workout music and expert tips 24-7. Hey, head over to iHeart.com. Search Body by Jake Radio and stream it for free right now.

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Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports. Radio. Welcome in. It is our two and it is a Friday. J. Mack, how lucky are we? I got to take everybody behind the curtain a little bit here. I don't want to spend too much time on this. But a couple years ago, I felt baseball felt before they brought in the pitch clock and the defensive shift, I felt baseball was really stagnant, had about a 15-year stagnant run, and I didn't talk about it a lot. And Caitlin Clark hadn't arrived yet in the WNBA. And I felt the

was almost too much football. It's like 70% football, and I've never wanted to work at the NFL network. They do a great job. But I like talking about college football. I like having a lot of different topics. And the fact that the WNBA, Caitlin Clark, is a regular segment, and we monitor the segments. You don't turn away. And the fact that baseball, Dodgers, Padres' rivalry four times this week, we talked about it, is a gift. I feel very, very lucky is that, you know, I love football. And if I was a sports talk show host in the UK, I would talk Premier League 75% of the time. I understand how popular the NFL is. But in the offseason for six months, I love the variance. I love having all these topics. So this has been a really, really fun week for me.

And I think J. Mack feels the same way. I got United States men's national team. I got Caitlin Clark. I got an insane Dodger Padre series guys getting plunk. This has been one of my favorite weeks in a long time because we just had so many different things to talk about. And I know you think, Colin, you talk a lot of NFL. Well, you watch a lot of NFL. That's why I talk a lot of NFL. But there's been a fun week. Yeah.

And next week, we get the NBA draft. And obviously, the Cooper Flagg stuff. There's a big-time player sliding in the draft. We're expecting Kevin Durant trade. Like, it doesn't stop here just because of this week's over. Okay, so there are, we go to a game seven. What do we know we're going to get? Not much.

I mean, I got to be honest. I did not think O KC was going to get house last night with Halliburton at 60%. Here are the five things that I predict will get in order of assuredness. Number one, OKC's defense will be really good. It's holding opponents to 32% from three-point range at home. They have the best defensive rating. They got a lot of fresh legs and bodies. they are a different team energy-wise at home.

OKC will play very good defense. Doesn't mean they'll win, but their defense won't look anything like last night. The second thing, Rick Carlisle's coaching, he's good. I mean, the ball movement with him, which he preaches, they have 705 more passes than OKC in the finals. Their ball movement, the use of their bench, all the levers, oldest coach in NBA finals history, Rick Carlisle will bring his A-plus-plus game. Number three, SGA getting eight-plus free-throw attempts. He gets more at home, and they're good when he gets him. So he is leading

the finals at 9.7 free throws a game, and on the road, he's a little more meek at home. He gets them. Eight of the 12 home games this season in the playoffs, he's gotten eight-plus free throw. So that's number three. I think he'll get that. Number four, a guy I really like in half a years, Pascal Seaccom will play really, really well. He's a dog, man. He's a really good player. 15 plus points in 15 straight playoff games. He's the only pacer that's giving you 10 plus points in every game,

and he's a big game player. He's a really good player. So I think Pascal Seaccom is going to play well. And I do think number five, Oklahoma City's bench will show up. It doesn't mean it'll be better than Indiana's, but it'll show up. So, you know, they're nine and two. this postseason when their bench shoots like 45% from the field. And young players who are not star players, young bench players, Indiana or OKC always play much better at home.

So most of these feel like I'm very pro-Oklahoma City. But I think Indiana's got the better coach and I know Pascal C. Akum is going to deliver. I also think you got a couple of days here for Halliburton to rest the leg. Doesn't hurt. Little break there. Doesn't hurt. How many minutes do you play last night? 23, 24 minutes. Rick Carlisle on Game 7 Sunday. One game. This is what it's all about. I mean, this is, you know, this is what you dream about growing up. This kind of opportunity. It's a very difficult place to play. We know that. but you know this this is

the opportunity to play in a game like this is a great honor and a great privilege I don't know 121-117 O KC I think I get him at home I gotta believe both teams are going to be a little tired it's been a lot it's a lot of travel it's a lot of intensity

man I mean you know one of the things about basketball that's really it's great so in hockey you got the glass in baseball outside of fenway park you're separated from fans football you got helmets on um basketball the proximity of fans to athletes makes it such a good television product i mean the indiana fans and i and i really do believe this especially with younger players um i was thinking about this last night when say ockham gets that dunk early and you're on the ground and you got indiana fans above you high five and you, it absolutely has to change the body chemistry. I mean, it just has to.

Like, fans matter so much in basketball, even more in college basketball because the players are younger. But when you watch Indiana's fan base, and they are literally like fist bump close to players, same with OKC, I think it's awesome. I love when an NBA player makes a big basket and five's a fan. As long as the fan understands, you don't open that. gate that is always a player's decision if he comes to you it's good you don't go to him ever but it's cool and watching those indiana fans last night when say yaw comes

hitting those shots and he's on the floor he can hear you you're four feet away you're damn right he can hear you and it matters and it's great sports it just plows through the television okay now i know what you're going to say a common how come you have to bring up Jason Tatum. Here we go. Cooper Flags Mavericks workout. The word being thrown around is unreal. Better than expected.

He's a complete beast. I am very comfortable saying he's going to be a better player than Jason Tatum eventually, and it won't take long. Why you got to bring up Jason Taylor? They both went to Duke. That's his comp. that's why. So he's a much better defender at this point than Tatum was at this age, not close.

And he's a much more aggressive player. And he had better stats everywhere than Tatum, and he's younger than Tatum. Points, rebounds, assists, free throw attempts, steals, block, it's just better across the board. And those are just stats. ORA and Alpha, bruh, not close. Think about this. This guy, if he didn't reclassify, he would be walking on a high school stage to get his diploma right now.

Like, this is the best domestic basketball product since Anthony Davis. I don't want to hear about John Morant and Zion. There were all sorts of things about Zion that concern people, like his torque and his injuries. This kid can really play. And there's some, you know, video stuff. We're not seeing a ton of it. but he is an all-time prospect. And I was talking, I think I was talking off the air to Christine Brennan.

I think it was off the air. May have been on, but I think it was off, is that sometimes, like Caitlin Clark, nobody thought she would be this good. Even Gino Oriama, Yukon coach is like, come on, slow down. She's better than we thought. Everybody knew Tiger was special. We didn't think it was going to look like that, where he was running away from the field at the U.S. Open.

LeBron James, nobody predicted he was going to surpass MJ in every statistical category. Bryce Harper is more what you expect. Bryce Harper was called the best baseball prospect ever. He was an eight-time All-Star. I think he's been a MVP of a National League playoff series. He's a national league MVP a couple times, eight-time All-Star. That's what you expect. So if I said to you, Cooper Flagg makes seven,

eight all-star teams, that would be a really good career for a top prospect. I think we're going to have a guy that's better than that. That's my take. Because I watched him, he very, I can't tell you the last time I saw a college player that didn't have really a hole in his game. I don't see what the hole is. And he can shoot, he can defend, he can run. Again, you cross your fingers on injuries.

but I mean, again, if he had a Bryce Harper career, and I guess I'm right, two-time NL, MVP, eight-time All-Star. I think Harper's got 344 home runs. I'm crossing my fingers, I'm right. Am I right? How about that? Staff took all these years, finally respect me.

So Bryce Harper is like what you would think, an all-time prospect, you'd be like, I was satisfied with that. Bryce Harper has lived up to it. sometimes people go above and beyond. I think this kid has a chance to do that. I think he's really, really good. We'll see. For the record, is this more of the video?

The video we got, he never missed a shot. So. Now, I will tell you, J-MAC's going to have this. There is one player in this draft. This draft is going to have a bust. Every draft does. I think I know who the one guy is going to be a bust. I'm not going to say it.

I'm going to let you have the story, but there's one player where things are not good. Yeah, by the way, this Cooper Flag stuff, you remember, I forget who came on our show, but someone was like, oh, an NBA comp, Andre Kirillenko. Do you remember, I might have been Paul Pierce. Bro, Andre Kirillinko, I think made like an All-Star game, never All-NBA. That's a borderline disrespectful. Andre Karolenko, if I'm just thinking, I wasn't, I think Cooper Flag, much better, much early, and much more aggressive and much more polished.

He's dominant in college basketball. Dominant. He's going to be, I'm all in on Cooper Flag. I think he's going to be spectacular. I will tell you. I'm going to come a Mazz fan now. I'll tell you this. People are saying it's a Carlos Boozer.

Carlos Boozer compared flagged to Kirillenko. I don't. Gross. I will say this, though. The number two kid in the draft from Rutgers, the guard, the 6-6 guard. He's going to be a star too. No, no, no. He's not just good.

He's a kid. He is a really special prospect. Do you remember Ben Simmons went to LSU? He was supposed to change college basketball. Yeah, I do. Could not get them to the NCAA tournament, and we killed him. Harper is on a team with 8th Bailey who's going to go top 10. They could not, as a duo, get Rutgers to the NCAA tournament.

I know. I'm not going to crush them for that. Harper's a good player. Let's pump the brakes on him being some kind of massive superstar, okay? let's just settle down. I don't say superstar. I said All-Star. I mean, come on.

All-Star? Is that the barometer for a number two pick? You go number two. I need more than All-Star, Colin. Well, what do you need? I need All-N-B-A. You're one of the best at your position in the league. You understand there's five guys on that all-N-B-A-first team,

and basketball's not football. Guys play for 15 years. No, no, not a lot of guys bowing out. All-N-Bee. That matters. You're top 15 in the league. All-Star is like a popularity contest. It's like voting for president in your junior high school.

Yeah, who's the cutest girl? Let's just vote for her. She's going to give us a soda machine in the cafeteria. Like, that's what the All-Star game is. Come on. All right. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week,

within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented it. a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And... Oh, we were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David, letterman help make you funnier this week my guest s n l's mikey day and head writer street or sidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some retirement homes those people are starving for banter listen to humor me with robert smigel and friends on the i heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts the french open is one of the toughest

tests in tennis and i know firsthand because i competed there myself i'm renna stubbs And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchen went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin. Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball like you go through a training camp with that Isaiah you figure it out real quick get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball so listen to point game on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts Chris brouss are going to be joining us you know j mac every draft has busts and there are warning signs all the time the draft you love the draft I have always been an NFL draft junkie NBA draft I always watch the first hour you know the first 7, 8, 9, 10 pictures

like, okay, it's interesting. Then it waffles into the second round. I don't care much. But are you going to get that story on this that I think you're going to do? I don't know. I guess you'll have to find out. Okay.

J-MAC with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd-line. Yes, yes, we're doing it. Sorry. I'm just mentally getting ready for this first Dak Prescott topic, Colin. Listen, Dak did not have a great leader last year. He was hurt. He had the hamstring injury. He, listen, he hasn't delivered in the playoffs. He's two and five. Go check Lamar Jackson's

record in the playoffs, by the way. And obviously there's pressure on Dak Prescott, but there's pressure on the entire Cowboys. So hot take artist, Cam Newton believes that this season could be Dax last in Dallas. So that it will behoove you. You can lose all the weight you won't. You can be as healthy as could be. But my man, if you don't go to that NFC championship this year or even a Super Bowl, this is your career, bro.

We don't seen this happen far too many times. And there is a guy by the name of Archibious Manning that is waiting in the city coast to Dallas that can't wait. I like Cam's podcast, actually. He's got a lot of personality. Really? He's not wrong here. No, I'm serious.

Philly went to the division, Washington 2nd, and Dallas wins, and with this coaching staff, we know coaching matters in the NFL. They win six games. I think there's going to be a lot of people that look up and Dallas goes, remember, next year's draft, there are already five quarterbacks

viewed as first round guys. Five. Now, and we always have two that emerge, I think you have to draft a quarterback if this is an ugly season, and I think it's going to be. I hate to bring facts to the table to you and Cam Newton, but do you know what happens if Dallas wants to move off of Dak Prescott after this season? What? His dead cap hit would be $129 million. It's not happening. No chance.

None. It's a silly, I mean, it's just uninformed. He's not going anywhere. Now, the idea, oh, well, maybe we'll trade him. Yeah, sure. Somebody's going to trade for Dak's contract. Like, listen, don't blame Dak for Dallas's issues. Blame Jerry Jones for giving him the contract.

Remember, though, if Dak with Pickens and C.D. Lamb posts good offensive numbers. My guess he will. He will, yeah. Somebody will come in and eat some of that contract. I will bet anything you want. I'll move to Shik. I shouldn't stop short of that. I will bet anything you want that there's no chance Dak Prescott is.

traded none. When was the last high profile quarterback you saw traded of Dax level? Two years ago, by the way, he was runner-up MVP, Colin. Well, Matt Stafford, Matt Stafford was better. Matt Stafford never won a playoff game in Detroit. He was like, people were like, oh, he's not good, he's not a winner. Well, people, Sean McVeigh thought he was great. Smart people thought he was great, yeah. But this idea that Dack, it's his final season. Like, do you know how bad they would have to be for them to get Archmanning? essentially, Dak would have to miss the entire season.

Oh, you don't think, if I, you know how I do a Super Bowl bubble? If I had an Archmanning bubble, six, seven, you know, I always put seven to eight teams in the Super Bowl bubble. Teams, and that's what we, and then a one or two of periphery. If you said there's an archmanning bubble, oh, I think Dallas is absolutely in it. Okay, let's do it now. New Orleans Saints. Okay, let's, I'm going to ride down. Hold on.

I'll go through the standing. It should be fun. So the New Orleans Saints are definitely. Absolutely. The New York Giants. have one of the lowest wind totals. And just put the Jets in there too. Now the Tennessee Titans have a low win total,

but they just drafted Ward. They're not going to be there. I doubt it. You want to put the Colts in there or no? Yes, Colts. I'm sorry, I'm putting Dallas in there. Do you think Dallas is that bad? Like bottom four in the NFC?

Dude, this coaching staff. Carolina. Carolina, add them to the list. I don't know, Colin. Dude, when's the last time Dallas nailed a draft? How many years ago? They are thin. Yeah, they don't have any talent. Again, that's not

Dax's fault. That's the front office's fault. By the way, are the New England Patriots definitely going to be better than the Cowboys? Dude, they are going to be a double. Cleveland Browns. Cleveland Browns add them. All right, add Cleveland. So how many? Is that six? Hold on. Listen, those are some really rotten teams, Colin.

Seven. And we had seven rotten teams last year. Seven or eight. Are the Bears going to have a better record the Cowboys? Yes, yeah. Dude, they have like 11, 12, 13 really good players. Okay, all right. Let's move on to the Kansas City Chiefs.

A lot of rumors in the offseason about whether Travis Kelsey would retire. He decided to run it back. He's supposedly slimmed down by 20-some-odd pounds. But he's coming off a terrible year. Andy Reid was asked about the game plan for his aging tight end and whether that would impact his usage. Not really feeling that. more be similar to last year, I would imagine, as it goes.

So he's in great shape right now. So I think he's looking forward to getting built. I know he's getting older. He doesn't know he's getting older, but I do. So I can be the bad guy in some cases there, if needed. He's got a year left. He's got a year left. Got a little more backup tight end action to save Kelsey for the postseason,

so he's not washed again? Listen, he's already a Hall of Famer. I have no problem rest in him three to four weeks. None. I want him good. We want him good in January, and I have no problem doing that. Hey, give him a sabbatical at some point in the season. Let's go to the final story cons.

The NBA, this is a story you love, you've been hyping. So NBA draft, the Hornets have the fourth pick. According to a report, an anonymous prospect, unfortunately, we don't have his name, refuse to work out for them, the Hornets, because La Mello Ball is on the roster and this prospect did not want to play with no Lamello Ball. Now, one of my hottest takes, like, three months ago, was if I had the number one pick,

and I would trade Lamello ball because I wouldn't want Cooper Flag alongside Lamello. And it seems like... He's not a winning player. He's a flashy player. He's not a winning player. But this is a problem, Colin. He puts butt...

Oh, my gosh. Look at those stats on the... So that's not good. He puts butts in the seats. Who cares? Win games. He sells merch. The kids love him.

Oh, great. I'm personally out on Lamello. I don't know what he becomes. But it's interesting that like a prospect, a 19, 20-year-old says, I don't want to play with that guy. I'm not working out. Because some 19-year-olds are grown-ups, and he's not a winning player. I wouldn't want to play with him either. And I think he's fun.

He's better than I thought he would be. He's fun. But to me, to me, you know, it all, what's it all. Just look it up real quick. What's his three-point shooting percentage? Off the top of my head, like 33%. But he's just an unsurious basketball player. That's right.

He's an unsurious player. That's the best way to put it. Like, you look at this finals and Tyrese Halliburton and SGA, these guys are locked in. Lamello's just kind of going through the motions. He shot 36% and shot more threes than Steph Curry. No self-awareness. Not a winning player. No thanks.

Yeah. That's bad. If he's your franchise player, you're building around him, and a player doesn't. Does it want to work out? A good organization would not build around. And you think a Celtics are building around him. I think when you're, I think certain franchises are about putting butts in the seats.

I really do. I don't think they're, I mean, like, I think a lot of these owners, these are toys, they're billionaires. They want butts in the seat. They don't really love the sport. Most do. Most care. Some like Matt Ischby, I care too much. But I don't think a serious basketball operation.

By the way, I'm not anti-Lamello as fun. I think he's in regular season game. If they're playing, and I'm sitting there watching NBA TV, and they're on, I'll sit around for 10 minutes. He's a fun play. He's enter day. You know, remember Jason Williams? Remember the kids from West Virginia, Randy Moss's buddy? He wasn't a serious basketball player, but he's fun.

He was good. I love what. A lot of turnovers, too much flash. But again, fun. I can respect that. Lamello's obviously, he's a very, very, I mean, he made the NBA. He's the best of the ball brothers. he deserves that respect.

He's a pro athlete. He's put a lot of time in the gym. But certain guys are just not serious winning players. Agree? J-MAC with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. So, Jay-Mack and I, last hour, Eric Mangini stops by. J-Mack's going to have that story last hour. Nobody wants to root for a bust, Sometimes you can see the signs of an NBA player that's a bust.

Also, I didn't know this. It's this Lamello ball has missed 141 games in the last three years. So both Lanzo and Lamello struggle to stay healthy. That's a big part of it. Years ago, an NBA general manager of some renown said, we were just at an event and talking, and he said, it's not about getting a star. It's about getting the right star.

And he was talking about Tim Duncan. And Tim Duncan doesn't, it's not about Flash. He's a great practice player. He's coachable. Like, he's the right star. I don't even need the name the names of guys who are stars. And NBA has a very young fan base. And young players or young fans are turned on by Flash.

And that's fine. Maybe I was when I was 20. But the NBA teams like Sam Presti and Brad Stevens, Pat Riley, these are really R.C. Buford. These are grownups. These are really smart people. And it's not just about, you know, the guy that's cool. It's about the guy that makes winning plays.

If you're shooting 35, 36% from threes, and you're shooting 11 a game, you don't have the self-awareness to be a franchise player. Chris Brouss are now joining us, cover the NBA since the mid-90s. I was saying game sevens are crazy. The one or two things I know I'm going to get. OKC's defense will show up. Rick Carlisle's coaching will be great. I'm not sure I trust anything else. Pascal Seyakum usually gives you a pretty consistent game.

I mean, let's start with this. Were you surprised that Halliburton played and he was that good last night? Because he was pretty good. Yeah, I wasn't surprised that he played. I fully expected that. But he did not look injured. And I know he was.

There's no way to lie about an injury like that. But I think it was smart of the Pacers to, like, make it a game time decision. I'm sure they knew. I don't know if they ever thought he wouldn't play, you know, but to leave it out there as a game time decision and put that question out there in the minds of OKC, Colin, as good as Indiana was, and they were great and they deserve all the credit for last night. I also thought OKC contributed to that performance, clearly. I mean, they're not that much worse.

than the Pacers or even on a bad night. And they looked like a team that felt like the championship was in their pocket, like they had it, that Indiana was going to fold, and that Halliburton either wouldn't play or if he did play, he would be severely compromised and no good. And he was the exact opposite. He looked fine. He moved well.

I actually think, Colin, the injury made him focus more because he was more aggressive. than he's been for most of the playoffs. Yeah. You know, like, I think it made him zero in and say, okay, I really have no room for error tonight, and he ended up having one of his best games of the series. You know, I said this.

Because they won by an average of 12.9 points a game, because they had the fourth most wins ever, there were these discussions. Are we looking at a great team? And I fell for it with Denver. I totally fell for it. I'm like, they're going to be the spurs. I think last night confirmed they're not a great team.

Great teams aren't different on the road to that level. The great teams, Michael Jordan's Bulls could walk into your place. It didn't matter where or when. Even the Celtics, the Celtics are the Tatum Celtics. They're sometimes better on the road than at home. This team, the variance home and away, to me illustrates they're another very good team with a chance to win a championship. They're not great.

Yeah, and I think that's just one of the many reasons they're not like an all-time great team. The guys look at the numbers and the analytics and want to say they're all-time great. No, they're the second youngest team ever to reach the finals. There's no way they're an all-time great team just because they're that young. And we'll look back, Colin, they have to win more championships. Like when we talk about great teams, we're talking about teams that had runs. only one-off team that was like an all-time great was the 1983 philly 76ers with moses malone and dr jay all the other great teams were dynasties the lakers in showtime cobi shack the jordan

bulls the golden state so this is not an all-time great team and furthermore colin and again i'm rooting for the pacer's hard i'm from indianapolis one of the many places i'm from but this This Pacer's team is giving them all they want, and they don't have one guy that you can pencil in for 25 a night. They don't have one guy. Their most reliable score is Pascal Seaccom. Can you imagine if they had a Kevin Durant, if that's the type of team that OKC was facing, and that Denver team took them seven, gave them all they wanted with two of their best four players, Aaron Gordon, MPJ, Michael Porter Jr. severely compromised by injury. So I think the Denver team in 2023 was better

than this OKC team. So yeah, look, I'll salute them if they win the championship, but let's stop it with the all-time great team. Yeah, I mean, these teams live on their depth. They're both depth teams. The great teams of all time. We didn't talk about, we didn't care much about Shaq and Kobe's depth. We didn't care much about that. When is your go-to thing. I think you're a very good team. Let me say this, though. I said, and then we'll get to a couple other things, Lakers and maybe Caitlin Clark,

that if Indiana wins, it will be the strangest team ever. Think about this. Strangest championship team ever. Think about this. 21st in cap spending. Nobody averaging 20. Obie Toppin started four games all year. He's their third leading score.

T.J. McConnell has become crucial. And they have the oldest coach ever. If I wrote those on paper, that sounds like a 500 team in the east. If they win Sunday, is this the most unlikely, strangest championship team ever? I think that's fair. When you say unlikely, I mean, fourth seed, there haven't been many teams. Only a couple, you know, Elijah Juan and Rockets, only a few teams that are. were lower than third seeds have won championships.

So that in and of itself makes them unusual. Halliburton, you know, he's in Nick Wright's Club, Superstar. I'm fine with that, but let's keep it real. He's a star. I think he will eventually become a superstar, but he's just a star. And the only, we always think back, the 1979 Seattle Supersonics, the 2004 Detroit Pistons, were the only teams to win championships without being kind of strong. star laden or at least led by this super all-time great superstar this team would be in that

group but even Detroit in 04 Chaunty billups was a blue chip high school and college player right he just was a disappointment is for beginning of his NBA career but he was a blue chip talent Rashid Wallace at North Carolina was a blue chip talent you know like they had guys that were everyone knew for years. even before the NBA were great talents. This team really, I mean, Pascal Seacom didn't even start playing until he was 17. And Halliburton, you know, nobody really thought he was going to be like a superstar player. And you mentioned it, T.J. McConnell, and Colin, right now, Pascal Seacom is the finals MVP if Indiana were to win.

T.J. McConnell's in the running. I mean, I'm just, I'm serious. He's in the running. He might get a vote, depending on what happens in game seven. So this is an unusual team. And it signifies the change in the NBA. Yeah. Because it's a team. It is not one, two, or even three superstars. It is a true team. And some will love it. Some will hate it. But it's a different NBA, at least this year. Yeah. Okay. Lakers sell for $10 billion. I think some of that is the new television deal. And the Mark Walters group said, listen, we got guaranteed $300 million. or checks annual or whatever's going to be.

You know this because of your sourcing in the NBA, and I've been on this for years, is they were really becoming closer to the Cincinnati Bengals than they were the New York Yankees. Like, they were mom and popping it. Like, there's stories this morning. When the Lakers sold, what were your sources saying about the new group?

Well, look, everybody loves the new group, and that now, you're right, you hit on the head. The Lakers, it was a bit surprising as you start covering, in the NBA to see this great franchise, the glamour franchise of the league, one of the best franchises in American sports history, was really run like a mom and pop operation. It really was. It is not run anywhere near the way the New York Knicks and they end up being much better than the Knicks, but they run like a mom and pop operation.

And now, when you bring in Mark Walter and you just look, Colin, at what he's done with the Dodgers. The Dodgers had not reached the World Series in 24 years when he took over. He takes over and they get great in short order because he was willing to spend money. Even before the Freddie Freedmen's and Muki Betts and Shohei Otanis, they were spending money with this new group to go get Andre Ether and other big names. So he came in and they've gone to four World Series 1, 2, made the playoffs every year he's been there. So now imagine the Lakers with.

the weather, with the prestige of the franchise, now being willing to spend money as much, if not more than anyone else in the league. This is great for Luca Donchich, is great for Lakers fans, and they're going to do everything they can to start winning a bunch of championships. And when you look at what he's done with the Dodgers, it's hard to say he won't get a few. Yeah, and something to remember with the Lakers, it is a winter league. outside of Miami, Steve Balmer has talked about this. When he spent that money, he said, A, I'm never selling it, but he goes outside of Miami,

L.A. is the first or second choice where players, free agent, stars want to play. That's never going to change. So the Lakers brand is underachieve for about 10 years, and now I think that will change. Hey, I got to throw this at you. I'm a big Kevin Durant fan, but I said I don't understand the lack of interest. only two guys in the league, average 25 a game and shot 40% from three. I love him. He's not asking for a max contract. He's not going to get a five-year deal. I think his messaging sometimes is that he doesn't prioritize winning. He prioritizes having fun and hooping. And I think that turns off some really serious front offices. That's the only thing I can come up with why there isn't a bigger market. You tell me, why isn't there? I think that's a great point. And we've seen it now.

Now, Brooklyn, I don't really put that on KD because if they had had health, whether it was him or James Hardner, Kyrie, then I think that threesome may have been able to win a championship. And then, of course, Kyrie with the vaccination. So that was beyond his control. But he picks Phoenix. Remember, he wanted to go to Phoenix. Phoenix was just a couple of years away from almost winning the championship. They still had Devin Booker and now look at them.

And then when he has Miami on his list of preferred destinations, why? If he goes to Miami, if I'm Phoenix, I want Bam out of Bayou or Tyler Hero. Even if they could keep those two and get him, they're not, I don't think they're a championship contending team with Kevin Durant. So he could be in Phoenix East if he goes Miami. So I think people are looking at that. Like what does he really want? Like you say, he just wants the hoop. wants to hoop, he wants to have fun, whatever.

Houston obviously can make the best deal for him. He would fit in perfectly. They would absolutely be a contender. But, Colin, if I'm the Rockets, I'm sorry, I'm holding out. I'm waiting and holding my assets to try to get Janice Ante Dekumpo. Janice wants to give Milwaukee a chance, but that could change by the trade deadline because they have no way to get better. They really don't.

Dame Lillard is out. They don't have many control of their draft picks for several years. So I think Janice will eventually be on the market. If I'm Houston, I'm waiting for him. I think Minnesota is the place to go. As far as the market, Colin, he's about to be 37 years old. And he also wants probably a two-year extension that's going to be over $100 million. That's what teams, I think, are looking at combined with he hasn't really impacted winning for several years now.

and he's only played 65 or more games once in the last five seasons. So those are all things that have brought Kevin Durant's market down. Chris Broussard. Brew, it's great seeing you on a Friday. Crush it today on First Things First. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, Colin. See it.

Yeah, yeah. He doesn't play the full schedule. I tend to give older players a little bit of a pass on that stuff. Are they going to be available when I need them? So, yeah. All right. Lotas to Eric Mangini Lives in Cleveland.

Thoughts on Chador. I swear, the Chadour topics are ending soon. It's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast,

I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now,

and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed.

And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reed. I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball like, after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Sunday, Alex Palo looks to continue his legendary season at Road America while the rest of the pack battle for the checkered flag, the indie car series Sunday, 1.30 Eastern on Fox. You know, it's, um, It's interesting right now. If you look, I was watching a Steve Balmer clip yesterday, the Clippers owner, and, you know, people have talked about this, this Lakers sale and this Celtic sales.

I mean, think about this. We just had Lakers and Celtics sell within a pretty short time span. And, you know, and Mark Cuban left. So, I mean, you have the biggest brand of the Lakers. One of the more famous owners, Mark Cuban, you have Boston, a huge brand. So like that, that would be like the Philadelphia Eagles, the Dallas Cowboys, and the San Francisco 49ers, you know, selling in a short period. So what is it signal? Is the league in trouble?

Well, they signed a massive, massive deal. I don't think the TV ratings have been great. And this sort of move pivot, new CBA, the second, third aprons, you just can't stack rosters. So you're going to have a lot of teams that, um, we're going to have. be good, even champions, that'll be very good, not great. But it is interesting that you would have like the three, two biggest brands. And now some of this is also a reality of what's happened. The Lakers and the Cowboys, in my opinion, Dallas will never sell that team with Jerry, but they do feel like a mom and pop operation. The Bengals feel mom and pop. The Lakers felt mom and pop. Some

of it is the world wealth air is just a lot of billionaires beyond the ownership of their team. So if you're the Brown family in Cincinnati or the Jones family and Jerry's got a pretty vibrant dynamic portfolio, but some of this is just like the league getting too big and rich and some guys, some people can't afford to be at the poker table any longer. But I don't know if it's a signal about the NBA. Steve Ballmer is a really smart guy and Ballmer's all in, built it. I mean, he doubled down. He went all in the Inuit dome. You know,

cash flow on an annual basis, I doubt the clippers make any money. The knock on the NBA is it doesn't cash flow well. There's a lot of teams that lose money on an annual basis, but when the valuations are skyrocketing because of the new TV deal, you're going to make your money, but it better

not be the only place you make money. And that was the problem with the bus family. This is where they make money. With the Brown family, the Bengals, That's where they make money. You know, and all of this, to me, as I think about it, I think, well, wait a minute. The Green Bay Packers don't even have an owner. And they're one of the best organizations in football.

So, you know, if you're well-run, market size doesn't matter that much. But there's a new world. I mean, the Steinbrenner kids are not George in terms of aggressiveness. I mean, the Yankees now, even though they have a big annual payroll, they don't feel quite as aggressive, as gloathing. global, as well-funded as the Dodgers do. That said, the Mets and the Yankees are two of the top three or four payrolls on an annual basis. So I don't know. I mean, Mark Davis are the Raiders.

He had to go get a bunch of other owners, including Tom Brady. He needed cash flow. And that was the reality. Denver, the Broncos, I think, have the richest owner in the sport. So that's why they can go and just write a check 18 million a year for Sean Pate. So it's just, I don't know if it signals anything about the NBA. I just think it's just a bigger, broader business. And the mom and pop shops, I think the bus family made a great decision.

I think it's good for the Laker fans. Hour three, final hour of the week, right around the corner. It's the hurt. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called, called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that you,

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getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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