The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Steelers vs. Bengals, Greg Cosell

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Thoughts on the upcoming matchup between the Steelers and the BengalsColin discusses Aaron Rodgers' recent comments about his time with the JetsMore on the targeting call that wasn't called on TexasGuest: Greg CosellSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast. Here we go. Hour 2 on a Thursday, live in Los Angeles, it's the Heard wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Greg CoSell in a couple of minutes. You know, it's interesting. What to do with Russell Wilson? So Pittsburgh hosts the Bengals.

I think they'll win. Cincinnati's more fun to watch. Pittsburgh probably wins. They could still potentially win the division if Baltimore gagged against Cleveland, but they won't. So if the Steelers win, they're guaranteed to get the Texans at home, and everybody in the AFC wants to play the Texans. So there's a possibility here. They're going to win, play the Texans, and win a playoff game.

But if you take, and here's the good news, if you take the last Big Ben year out, and then the two after that, pre-Russell Wilson, there was a three-year stretch where the offense was awful. It's no longer awful. It's okay. They are very dependent on wide receiver George Pickens, who is moody, young, and appears to be high maintenance. They're also in the AFC, which is the superstar quarterback conference, and in an era where great defenses don't win Super Bowls, great offenses do. So the good news, they've graduated out of lousy. But once again, they have no pro bowlers on offense for the third straight. year. And whereas the Kansas City Chiefs are going for their third straight Super Bowl,

the Steelers will for the third year in a row lead the NFL in defensive spending. 30 years ago, the Green Bay Packers, a small market team, pivoted to offense, and they've never looked back. Always relevant. Want a lot of playoff games. The Pittsburgh Steelers have always been about defense, even when they had Terry Bradshaw and Big Ben. And they've become a team with an incredibly low ceiling as the league over the last decade has pivoted to an offensive league. So they're no longer lousy, but again, lead the NFL, third year in a row, defensive spending. You know, it's like, it's like, you know, you ever meet a chain smoker?

They know it's killing them, but they can't stop. Like defense is where they're going to spend their money. they know it's not going to win trophies, but they can't stop. And that's what Pittsburgh is. I think they'll beat Cincinnati. I think they'll beat the Texans. So they'll get a host of playoff game and they'll win. And so the feeling will be it was a successful season.

But I don't think you can have no pro bowlers three years in a row on offense, lead the NFL in spending defensively three years in a row and be a viable Super Bowl team. Here's Mike Tomlin's message to his team. with a chance to beat CINCY and get a home game against the Texans. Take care of football and stay on schedule. I think when we stay on the schedule and we take care of football, we're a formidable group. And at times, particularly in the last several weeks,

we've been spotty in those regards. So, you know, if they beat Cincinnati and the Texans, Steeler fans are going to tell you, look at us. Yeah, I'm looking. No pro bowlers, offense. You've graduated out of lousy to... Okay. middle of the pack offensively.

Greg CoSell, 45 years, NFL films. All right, we were talking last hour, Vikings Lions. I think sometimes this happens where you get a great coaching staff. I think Kevin O'Connell's remarkable. I think Brian Flores is excellent. I don't love the Vikings defensive personnel. I love how it's coached. Detroit, I think offensively, there's like Hall of Famer.

on this roster. Like it's just two running backs, great old line. When you look at the film on the Vikings and Lions, do you see it clear delineation and talent, scheme? Like, what does the film say when these two teams match up? Well, staying with the side of the ball you're on, Colin, I think you're right to some extent about the Vikings defense in terms of personnel, but I think they're difficult to play against because they're so multiple with their front looks, They're multiple on the back end in terms of coverage rotation. So it's difficult for quarterback to process it because he has to be concerned about what the front looks like. You get too focused on the front.

You lose track of the coverage rotation. You get too focused on the coverage. You lose track of what the pressure concepts could be. So they're difficult to play against. Now, these teams did play week seven. And Jared Goff, who, by the way, has had an outstanding season. and is just one of those really, really solid veteran quarterbacks in all areas. He did a phenomenal job, as did the entire Lions' offense, against all these Vikings' looks.

Goff was tremendous against their pressure schemes, but they're still a difficult defense to play against, even if they don't necessarily have pro-ball, all pro-type players on the defense. So I want to engage here on a couple of young quarterbacks before we get into some of the bigger names in the sport. So let's start with Michael Pennix. I think we both liked him out of college. He had a ton of starts. He led the nation and past attempts at Washington. It was a pro-style offense.

What have you seen so far on tape on Michael Pennix? I think he's been solid. I think he's a pocket player for the most part. He's poised. He's composed. I thought in the last game he missed a few that we would expect him to hit, and he's going to have to make those. He can't miss because of the style of quarterback he is,

which is essentially a pure pocket passer. he can't miss routine throws. But I think that he's calm, he's composed, he stays with the game. It doesn't overwhelm him based on the given situations in the game. I thought in the first game, they did a much better job of mixing the run and the pass elements. I thought this past week they didn't do it as well because they're a foundational outside zone run team with Bejohn Robinson, who by the way is absolutely terrific. and I thought the first week he played, they did a great job of using that to get to their play action element. They didn't do that quite as much the second game he played, and I don't think they looked as comfortable.

Is there a rookie quarterback you've been most impressed with? Well, you know, it's interesting. I'm impressed with some of them in different ways. I mean, Jane Daniels has obviously shown the ability situationally to rise to the occasion. You know, when you watch him and you watch every snap like I do and sit with a remote clicker in my office, you know, quarterbacks that are very good with their legs and that leave the pocket and make plays with their legs, they're always going to leave some throws on the field because they leave the pocket early at times. And you just have to, I think, live with that. I don't think you're coaching them out of moving.

You know, great quarterbacks in our league like Josh Allen, Mahomes, they leave the pocket early at times as well. And you're not going to tell them not to do that. that's kind of built into their DNA. And I think Daniels is cut from the same cloth. So there'll be some throws he leaves on the field, but yet this past week, for instance, was a great example where his legs kind of took over the game. I think Drake May has actually played really well,

given the circumstance and the situation that he's in. And I've noticed that there are a number of things that were, I don't want to say concerning coming out of college, but I knew that he needed to clean up, that I feel like he's done a good job cleaning up in his first year in the league. He's just on a team with a poor O line and no weapons on the perimeter. So obviously they're not going to win games, and he's not necessarily going to put up big numbers.

Nix has been, in some ways, he's gotten beyond what I thought he could be, because I think the strength in his arm, and not just on this throw, which was obviously an unbelievable throw, but we've talked about this. We've seen him make those deep-dig throws, which those are arm-strained throws. I remember talking to Joe Flacco years ago, and Joe telling me that those, deep digs where you're just kind of sitting on your back foot and you have to drive the ball, 22, 24 yards between the numbers between the hashes, window throws, that those are really arm-strained throws. And Nix has really shown the ability to do that. I guess Caleb Williams

would be the last guy. And I think while he's probably incredibly gifted throwing a football, I mean really gifted just throwing a football, I think he has a ways to go. When I watch him, at times I feel like he still has to learn how to play in the NFL. Yeah. And I've never been a guy, Colin, who decides a guy's a bust after playing one year in the league. So that's not what I'm saying at all. I just think he's got to learn. And I think he needs hard coaching.

I think they need, this is just my opinion, of course. The Bears will do what they want. But I think they need to hire an NFL coach to coach him that has an NFL resume. And that's done it in the league and knows what it takes. All right. So Baltimore's defense was a completely. liability early. It's been better.

It's been, I mean, really on the back end. It has been better recently. It looks like a team that, a playoff defense. What is the ingredients that have helped the turnaround? Well, it's funny because, you know, watching so much tape and researching them, starting week 11, they made a big change. They basically moved Kyle Hamilton, who's obviously a very gifted player. You know, he'd been playing a lot in your lawn, a scrimmage.

been playing slot corner. They basically moved him to full-time safety. Now, that doesn't mean he plays on the back end every single snap, but he's now a safety in the context of their defense, not a slot corner, not a box player. So since they made that change, since Week 11, Colin, they are the number one third down defense in the NFL. They're only allowing offenses, opposing offenses,

to convert at a 29% clip. Their defense has gotten to be really, really good. I mean, Hamilton is 6-4. He's incredibly rangy. He can still do multiple things. He just doesn't play near the line of scrimmage. The interception, for instance, he had last week against C.J. Stroud was a great example of coverage rotation, how they sort of tricked the quarterback a little bit, and just the length and range, which he has,

playing closer to the back end than the front end. So I said if I was the Jets, I'd bring Aaron Rogers back because it's not a robust quarterback draft, and I don't think the Vikings are going to let Sam Darnold hit the market, so I'd bring him back. I have also said, I think he's somewhere between the 13th and 16th best quarterback in the league. That's just sort of what he is. You tell me, can he lead a team and carry a team? What is he now? Yeah, you know, I think if you just look at the way he throws a football and the mental part of the game, he's still right up there.

I mean, he can just still snap it off with the best in the league. mentally he's smart. Don't forget, he's 40, and he's coming off in Achilles. You know, and I think this is almost, I don't want to say it's a practice year for him, because that'd be wrong, he's playing in the league, and when you're out there, you've got to perform. But I'm very curious to see if he's back with the Jets and if he's a starting quarterback next year, how he would play, because coming off that injury at that age, that's a really difficult thing to do, I would imagine. Obviously, I've never had to do that. But just when you watch him throw a football and you know the mental part of the game, you speak to any coach that's been around Aaron Rogers, and they'll

tell you how incredibly smart he is as a player. So, you know, elite's a word that's that's thrown around too much. I'm not going to sit here and say, man, he's elite. But I think he still can play in this league based on how he throws it and how he sees the game mentally. I'd love to see him get another year to see if he can come back even more from that Achilles. Yeah, no, last eight weeks, he had one stinker in six or seven good games. So one of the enigmas, of the NFL this year, and I just can't explain it. Why are the Rams so bad offensively in the first half? It's like Stafford needs a half to warm up the old bones.

Usually offensive coaches on script are pretty good first two drives. The Rams are a much better team after the break. It's almost like it takes a while to get heated up. I mean, they also feel very puka, Nakua dependent. What is it with the Rams offensive? Yeah. Yeah, I don't have a, you know, I get asked about a lot of teams, you know, that starts slowly. And you make a great point.

I mean, most of these coaches do script everything to start, and you would think that that script would really be good based on the fact that they're working that off the tendencies and probabilities of the opponent. But some teams just seem to get off to slow starts. I will say this. And you and I both like Stafford, there's no question. He's a great quarterback and has been for a long time. But I think they are now a running football team. And that's where it all starts.

starts with Kairn Williams. Now, he's not a great back in the way we think of the great backs. He's certainly not explosive, but he's a grinder. He gets hard yards. I mean, he has well over 300 carries, Colin. So this is an offense that starts with him. And very often when you start with the run game, you see that at times with the Packers, too. They start with Josh Jacobs. Sometimes these teams that start with the run game don't necessarily hit the big explosive plays early, and they sort of work through the game. A lot of of these coaches work through the game and they want to see how the defense reacts to certain things they do.

You know, it's funny, these teams we're talking about are all heavy shifting and motion teams. And very often the coaches want to get a feel for how the defense reacts to the shifts and the motions. And then they make it a four-quarter game. And as the game goes on, they get such a good feel for the defense that that's when they start executing better. Yeah. Another question, C.J. Stroud.

I mean, I know he lost a star receiver, but it does feel like he's regressed. Yeah. What's happened? Yeah, a couple of things, in my opinion. Number one, I think, you know, even going back to his days at Ohio State when he was rarely under duress, and then last year in the NFL, he was rarely under duress. This year, the O-line hasn't been quite as good. Laramie Tunsell's not had his best season as a past protector. so he's been under a little more consistent pressure.

So I think one of the next things in his developmental stages is he's going to have to learn how to play out of squeezed and muddied pockets better. You can't just say, well, the O-Line's not good. This is the NFL. There's going to be bodies around you. And I think that what happens with quarterbacks that aren't used to playing when there's people around them, Colin, is they start to feel pressure when it's not there. They perceive it.

They anticipate it. and they speed up everything they do. And when you start to speed up everything you do, your mechanics, your throwing motion, you lose a little bit of your ball location. And this year he's not been as precise with his ball location as he was a year ago when it seemed like he never missed a throw. This year he's missing some throws that by NFL standards are routine.

And I think he's just playing a little fast. He needs to slow down. And I assume that'll come with time. I don't think that he's not going to be a good thing. quarterback in the league. I think he just needs to work through that process. So it's interesting. I think the Chargers, Harbaugh, has obviously made them a more physical football team, and I think when J.K. Dobbins is healthy, they have enough offense to win multiple playoff games. I don't think, because they could use another ex-receiver,

but their offense, it has its moments, and those moments are usually when they have their best back on the roster, J.K. Dobbins. I think then they're pretty lethal because, you know, I've always said with Parbaugh, he squeezes the juice out of every roster. Even the national championship team had two five-star guys. Alabama had 18. What has he done to just squeeze the juice out of this offense? Because there's not a lot of pro-bowl-level players on it outside of Herbert. No, and Herbert's really, really good. He's actually a joy to watch on tape. You know, what really surprised me, because I did a deep dive into them this week, because obviously they're going to be in the playoffs.

People might be surprised that 75% of his dropbacks this year have actually come with three wide receivers on the field. Because I think there's a sense that now playing with this Scott and Matlock, the converted defensive end who essentially is their fullback, I think there's a sense that this is a team that just lines up with big people and they come after you and they knock you down, you know, they play physically, which they do, by the way. But when they throw the football, it's high percentage out of three,

wide receivers. And I wouldn't say their three-ride receiver group is anywhere near the best in the league, although I think you and I both love McConkey, and he's been phenomenal working out of the slot. But when they throw the ball, they throw out of three wide receivers, they push it down the field. Herbert is an easier thrower as there is in the league. And they do a lot of really good things schematically to attack defenses that they anticipate. So it's a combination of many things, as it usually is when a team plays. well. All right. Baker Mayfield, I thought Tampa was a great fit. I thought he has a young, smart, offensive coordinator, both. I think it's interesting that Donald and Baker in that 2018 draft class, combined with Lamar and Josh Allen from that class, there are four hits in that class. And we've had a string of really good quarterback classes about every third year.

What is it with Baker and Tampa that works beyond just Mike Evans is very good? That we know. Yeah, I think they do a great job with play action. The run action game is really, really good for them. And Baker has always been an aggressive thrower. Yes. And, you know, I think that to me that's always been a positive. Will he make a couple of bad throws here and there where you go,

hey, Baker, why did you throw that one? Sure, he'll do that. But he is willing to make tough throws between the numbers, between the hashes. And, you know, when you talk to quarterbacks, they will tell you, when the tape confirms this, he's got to. a really good arm. Yes. I mean, you know, because he's smaller and maybe people don't see him as a physical quarterback the way they see some other quarterbacks in the league, but he really can snap off throws. And he can make throws to all parts of the field, and he is willing to make

those throws. And he's played really, really well this year. And I think that offense presents him with a lot of clean, defined looks. Same, same as in Minnesota with Donald. So let's look at the play of the week. It's against Carolina. And it's Baker doing his thing. Yeah, this play was one of my favorites from the week, because you know me, I've always been a big believer, and you have to make these tight window throws in the NFL. It's hard to play quarterback in this league if you can make those kinds of throws in squeezed environments, because the hash marks are closer.

So let's take a look at this, and this is to Mike Evans as well. So let's take a look at this play from last week. You're going to see it ends up being a 30-plus-yard play. But there's so much to this play that is really, really good. And we spoke about the play action. You're going to see that Mayfield is under center, and I've always believed under center play action is more effective. They're in what we call a one-by-three nub set,

meaning the tight end is the single receiver to the boundary side, and he's attached. So what you're going to get here is what we call cross-country dagger. You're going to get McMillan from inside running across the field, not straight vertically, across the field, and then Evans is going to run the dig. So it's dagger, but it's cross-country dagger. And then to eat up the outside corner, they're going to take the third receiver and run them on an outside vertical.

Now, on that side of the field, they're going to get cover two. So what does that mean? That the safety is going to expand and sink, and the corner's going to stay low. That's cover two. That's the underneath hook defender to that side of the field. He becomes important in this play because Baker's going to have to beat him. But the safety on the other side is important because they're playing quarters to the other. side, so his eyes are to the trip side of the offensive formation. And so what happens is he gets

eaten up now, as we're going to start to run this play, he's getting eaten up by the cross-country part of the dagger concept, by McMillan, because McMillan's not running a straight vertical. McMillan's basically running at that backside safety. So that safety can't come into the middle of the field. He's being held by McMillan. So now you get Evans on the dig, and that's going to be in a void. So now you get the safety to that side. He's sunk because it's covered two, so he retreats. And the player that Baker has to beat is that underneath hook defender. But he's going to throw this between the numbers in the middle of the field. These are hard NFL throws. These are big-time throws. And you see Baker make this throw, and you're going to

see it really cleanly from behind Baker. You can almost see how he's seeing it, that it's how tough these throws are. There's a lot of bodies in the middle of the field. And by the way, that's an area that a lot of college quarterbacks, Colin, when they get to the league, they struggle with. Because with the hash marks much wider in college, you don't have to make a lot of tight window throws in college football. Yeah, you don't. Great seeing you. Happy holidays. And I always appreciate you stopping by and making us smarter. Greg, thank you. Colin, I appreciate it. I love being with you. Thanks. All right, Greg Kosell, 45 years NFL films.

Yeah, that's a big time throw by him. It's great. You go back to that 2018 draft class. Josh Allen, Lamar, Darnalbaker. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Then you go a couple years later. Herbert, Burrow, Jalen Hertz, Tua. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

This year, Caleb, Jaden, Bo, Panics, Drake May. Don't know about J.J. McCarthy. So that's from 2018 until last year, a six-year stretch. every other year roughly we've had a star it used to be the big quarterback draft was the Elway Marino draft

this draft right now if Caleb Williams gets it right Jaden's a star period Pennix Drake May and Boenix have a lot of talent you keep rolling your eyes on this stuff I'm not Pennix has started

two games now let me ask you this let me ask you this slow down how about when Greg Coe says said the Rams are now a run team telling you they are seeing some limitations at quarterback. Why don't the Rams, who only need a number one corner

and probably another ex-receiver, why wouldn't the Rams give up one of their third round picks for JJ McCarthur? Oh, it's going to cost way more than that. Well, I'm saying I'll give you a three this year and a four

and then I'll give you, you give us a five and I'll give you a two the following. You went like top 12 overall. There's no way they're doing it for a third and had two surgeries. No shot. None. I'm surprised you don't want to see what you've got in McCarthy. Like you saw a little preseason.

You know the Rams did homework on him because Stafford was older last year. The Rams have done their home. Well, I meant the Vikings. Before you ship him out of town, you don't want to see him with like the live bullets fire. Remember when everybody told you, let's go back to our show. Everybody loved J.J. McCarthy. and there were multiple reports. Teams are moving up for him.

Not even the Vikings. The Vikings gave away a fourth and a fifth round pick to move up a couple slots. That's all they gave up. That's all the Vikings gave up was a fourth and a fifth. So Kevin McConnell, the quarterback expert, he wasn't willing to give up that much. And he's the guy that knows quarterbacks.

Now you got me thinking the Vikings are like one of the top five off-season interesting teams. They are. But they wouldn't have been like a month ago. I mean, Darnold wasn't playing this well a month ago. He's really, I don't see a world where they keep him, but making a decent argument. You would let him walk out the door. Yeah.

You would not? No. I think Darnold's plan at, I, I, I, you have like a band crush on him and he's your buddy. Did you text him Happy New Year, by the way? Are you guys that close? I don't like to get into my relationships. Be sure to catch live. Editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart

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or wherever you get your podcasts. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But, with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hope you're having a great new year so far. Be safe out there. I'm heading into a polar express. J. Mack is very concerned about my weather choices in life.

So he loves beaches, and I do too, but sometimes it's okay to put a coat on. It was nice 60 degrees yesterday out near the beach. You soak up any of the rays? I was watching college football after my workout from 10-10 until I went to bed. You mean when it was 34-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0. I don't know if I was locked in. I was making something to eat, but I was watching J-Mack with the news. This is the Herdline News.

Speaking of locking in, the Eagles have locked up the number two C in the NFC, resting their starters in Week 18, the smart move, we agree. However, interesting thing on Wednesday's injury report, Colin, Jalen Hertz is still in concussion protocol and was non-participant, was a non-participant in yesterday's walk-through. This is, obviously bears mind. monitoring because this is not quite two weeks, but we're getting up there close to two weeks still in concussion protocol. Eagles resting their guys this week, they would be hosting, if things hold now the Packers in opening weekend.

That's not good for Philly. That is a fascinating game. We start looking at these playoff games. Green Bay and Philadelphia, I like Philadelphia in that spot. I think Detroit. Well, Detroit beat Green Bay twice, and part of it was running. in that football and that offensive line. Philadelphia is a line team.

Right now, my favorite part of Green Bay is the perimeter. I think they've got a lot of speed on the perimeter. I do like what Jacobs has provided to their run game. But I think Philadelphia and Detroit are a hard matchup for almost everybody in the NFC. They just overpower you. So it was going to be Washington, Philly, and then, you know, Packers keep losing, Washington keeps winning. I think Green Bay is extremely dangerous. We saw what they went into Dallas and did last year.

But Dallas doesn't have the roster that's close to Philly. I think the Packers were like six or seven point underdogs in memory serves. I could be wrong. They were significant underdogs, and it was like 27-0 early in that. There's a beat down. I'd be careful. Christian Watson's there. There's some splits circulating on the Internet about the Packers' offense with and without Christian Watson healthy.

And it's not good. If he's backed for that game, you got young cornerbacks in Philly, Nick Siriani potentially hot seat. I'd be a little nervous facing the Packers. Remember that season opener in Well, what worries me, Jalen Hertz isn't practicing or playing for several weeks. That's what I don't want. Major concern. And they've also been a bad first quarter team

all year. Maybe it's worst in the league, so if Green Bay gets off to a 7-0-10-0-lead, all of a sudden, the crowd's grumbling, Hertz is kind of rusty. Siriani. Panicky. Yelling at the crowd. You could see it unravel in Philadelphia really fast. Definitely for sure. is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers

heading to Week 18, needing a win to lock up the fourth seed and the NFC South title. However, let's keep an eye on Mike Evans, Colin, chasing an 11th straight 1,000-yard season. He's only 85 yards away from 1,000, and Baker Mayfield wants to make sure to get that achievement for his wide receiver. Getting him involved early and often is a lot of the reason

we've had success. And so those things go hand in hand. Yeah, there's balance and the most important things winning, but I see it playing out. If we win, that Mike's getting the record. And so, yeah, we've got to focus on winning and getting in the ball, but guys playing for each other.

And that's, Mike won't say anything about it. And that's just who he is. And that's why we love him. That's why everybody loves him. That's why he's been so consistent for so long. It's never been about just himself. It's been about winning and trying to find ways to win. Baker, he feels like a good fit in Tampa.

He's really grown up. He's a little swashbuckler. They're the pirates. It kind of feels like it works. So Mike Evans can earn a $3 million bonus if he gets five catches for $85. Well, if I was Baker-Mayfield first series, I'd get him three right there. I don't think they put the prop totals up, but Mike Evans is going to be high, and he's probably going to hit it.

Colin, look at the class that Mike Evans is in here. Most consecutive seasons with 1,000 or more receiving yards. Jerry Rice is won, and then it's Mike Evans. Tim Brown, legendary player, Torrey Holt, Marvin Harrison, Chris Carter. We're at the point where Mike Evans, is he a top 10 receiver in the history of the NFL? I mean, top 15? He's got the numbers to back it up, and he hasn't always had an amazing quarterback. So who are the top 10 receivers?

Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson. Chris Carter's probably got to be in there for some of his accolades. T.O. That's five. And Mike Evans, you know, not the sexiest name. He just every season. He goes out and delivers. He's really good, man.

I think he is, I mean, top five I can name. Then it gets a little dicey. I'm not sure if I can. Yeah, because there's some, kind of like baseball, stat patterns. You know, this is not stat patting. He's got to do this for the bucks to win. And no God win. I mean, Evans is just a great story, man.

Awesome player. Final story, Colin is to college football. We had the crazy matchup in that Peach Bowl, Texas, Arizona State. Just an absolute thriller. The Sun Devils, as I said, earlier outgain the longhorns 510 to 375 they were down 16 in the final seven minutes for double overtime Kelly yeah Kenny Dillingham thinks that Arizona state proved they belong when you look at it did we belong on the field I think a lot of people were questioning

that and I don't think any person questions uh if we belonged on the field now there are no moral victories when the season ends there's no such thing this should hurt this should be painful the locker room is dreadful right now, and it should be. If it wasn't, something would be wrong. But at the same token, now that this is over, I really am going to challenge our guys to reflect on where it all started because it really is remarkable. That's great.

I mean, they were able to create offense. They didn't have three and outs. How many plays they have? 97. It's insane. I mean, Texas, with all that talent, had three and outs. I mean, they had sustained drives. It was one of those games that if I would have guessed time of possession, I'm like, I'd have to, because Texas had big plays, they didn't have a lot of sustained drives. It felt like an NCAA tournament game, 16 versus one, right? Huge underdog, big deficit, and then they store it back, and you're rooting for them. Man, I can't get over that targeting place.

How angry do you think ASU grads must be coming? That was, I mean, helmet to helmet, clear targeting, no? Well, I was talking to my buddy John Middlakov last night. I don't like the call because I think over the course of the last six, seven years, players aren't doing that. Anytime there's a collision, it's accidental, nobody's head hunting. It's been kind of coached out of the sport, so I don't like it. And I never like college kids getting thrown out.

The game of football, the players are getting bigger, stronger, faster. the collisions are getting gnarlier and they're happening quicker. I don't know a single player in college that I would say, that guy's a headhunter. That's just not something college football has. When you have these occasional helmet-to-helmet hits, now that's about as bad as it gets in college.

I understand that to me is a penalty. I think they should get rid of the ejection rule. And to be honest with you, I think it was necessary seven to eight years ago. I don't even think, I don't think it is necessary. is it. Well, it's like, what is a catch in the NFL? You know how it's still debated? A lot of these guys are saying, I don't know what targeting is. And I think Dillingham was one of them. He's like, I don't know what targeting is. The rule just doesn't. I mean, that was clear helmet to helmet.

But speaking of head hunting, in that Boisey State game, Colin, that guy who decked Ashton, Ashton, out of the blue, come on. That was as dirty as it gets. I think number 33 of Penn State, you remember that play. It was like off the turnover, Gentis standing there and he just blinds up. We don't need that in football. That guy got a 15. year penalty later for hitting the quarterback in the end zone. Well, you know, I don't want to go after a college kid, but that's, that's, well, football's rough. It's a rough sport. It's probably why I didn't play it.

You've got a gentee sort of physical stature. Oh, really? So you're the little guy kind of protecting. I prefer Scataboo, but a scataboo is a house. That's how I feel sometimes, getting the handoffs. Yeah, all right. Beach volleyball guy. All right.

Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. Light News. Winter is officially upon us. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, news?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey, John? Jonas, guys. I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about

what we should call it. We were thinking, I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit

for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement home. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sunday on Fox, the final week of the NFL season comes down to this. At one Eastern, it's winning their in their end as Baker-Mayfield and the Bucks look to punch their ticket to the playoffs against the Saints. Then at four, the Dolphins fight for the final AFC playoff spot against the Jets.

It's a huge double-header Sunday on Fox. You know, years ago when Trevor Lawrence came out in the draft, the quarterback for the Jags, he got some criticism for saying, my life is not designed by football or defined by football. And Andrew Luck retired early. His life was not defined by football. Aaron Rogers, his measuring stick for success is one that Brady, Mahomes, and Peyton Manning and Drew Brees would probably roll their eye out.

You know, he doesn't consider football the be-all end-all, nor does he consider winning the B-all-E-all-E-all. He talked about his future with the New York Chats. I mean, gratitude, honestly. It's been the best two years of my life. and that's a perspective adjustment that happened, I think at some point during the rehab process last year. But just the excitement, falling back in love with the game,

getting know these guys in here, getting know the great men and women to work here. It's been a lot of fun. You know, it's obviously on the field has been short of expectations, no doubt. But this game is more than just that. This game is about the relationships. Well, I mean, for a quarterback, relationships are important, especially when the relationships equal rings.

but Aaron's different. And Trevor Lawrence probably different, and Andrew Luck was different. To be an all-time great, generally you have to be, and I don't care if it's on Wall Street or football, kind of obsessed. Tech, law, kind of obsessed. Aaron isn't. So he said he needs to break, mentally, physically, put his feet in the sand. It doesn't really shock me. I think Aaron's still talented, but I just think he measures success differently.

And I do believe you got a lot less of this early in the same. his career when he was going toe to toe with Brady and Manning and then I think both Peyton and Tom Brady separated from him on the field and he kind of pivoted to a hey football's not the most important thing maybe it's a protective mechanism I don't know but it does

feel like the last six or seven years when Brady and Manning sort of stacked trophies and that he kind of pivoted away from football in terms of offseason I want to do more than football it's his right he's not the first quarterback to not be obsessed with winning I still if I was the Jets would keep him because I think, you know, he's somewhere between 12, 13th, 15th, 16 best

quarterback. Maybe he's played very well late. He gets another offseason, you know, because he was a bit rusty early in the season. Maybe next year is the big year and the final year. Here's Greg Colcell and what he's seen on tape of Aaron. He can just still snap it off with the best in the league. Mentally, he's smart. Don't forget, he's 40. And he's coming off in Achilles. You know, and I I think this is almost, I don't want to say it's a practice year for him because that'd be wrong. He's playing in the league and when you're out there, you've got to perform. But I'm very curious to see if he's back with the Jets and if he's a starting quarterback next year, how he would play. But I think he still can play in this league based on how he throws it and how he sees the game mentally.

I'd love to see him get another year to see if he can come back even more from that Achilles. So he said New York's been the best two years of his life. One of them was injured and one of them they stunk. So winning is obviously not the most important thing. I'm not taking a shot at him, but that's what he's saying. I mean, if I went through two years of a bad marriage and said, this has been the best two years of my life, it's an indictment on the marriage, right? So it's like winning is not the most important thing because he won in Green Bay and got great coaching and won the division.

And he considers that second to his New York experience. So you just have to, listen, he kind of spends his off seasons like that is true. Maybe that's why he started the season's low. Maybe his rehab was like that. It wasn't the most important thing. I don't know. But when you say this is the best two years of my life, and it's been one injured rehabbing and won a disaster,

it tells me that winning's not the most important thing. Okay. No judge free zone, whatever, but I kind of feel like he trains like that. And his off-seasons are like that. And maybe his rehab was like that. That's what it feels like to me. Also, the story that deserves. another discussion.

Adam Schepter saying teams will call on J.J. McCarthy. Why is that out? Diana Rusini reporting Vikings want to sign Sam Darnold. I'll say it again. Two legitimate

reporters. They may just be putting J.J. McCarthy feelers out there. Seattle's got the 18th pick. Minnesota desperately needs draft picks. They don't have a second, a third, or a fourth. Don't have it. And in a division

where Detroit is stacked, Chicago could ascend with a new coach, and Green Bay is the youngest good team in the league, you can't have a first-round pick and not draft until the fifth. So I could see, because Daniel Jones

is not going to fetch a lot of picks, in a bad quarterback draft, and it's bad, J.J. McCarthy, because remember, the Vikings, A lot of teams did their work on J.J. McCarthy. And the Vikings only used a fourth and a fifth rounder to get him. They didn't consider them.

I mean, what you trade for a player is what you consider. I think you can get draft picks that Minnesota desperately needs. And I also think they're not letting Sam Darnold go. And why did they bring Daniel Jones in November? I'm just saying there's a lot of drip, drip, drip. there's a lot of things that connect. And on this show, we would love to be the first one to put the pieces together,

but Schefter now reporting. Teams will be interested. Why is that out today? Hour three next. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicel Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal online. I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud.

But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host care games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that

you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed humans. Thank you.