The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Taking care of your stars

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

Colin talks to The Athletic Steelers Reporter Mike DeFabo about the TJ Watt's new deal, Aaron Rodgers, and what to expect this season The WNBA needs to do a better job of keeping their stars healthy See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice.

Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Pride on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know, I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She can win. She's an outsider to win the French win. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennarabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now,

and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com

or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. All right, here we go. It's hour two. We are all fired up. We're live in Chicago. It's the herd, wherever you may be. However, you may be listening.

Thanks for making us part of your day. Huge fight tomorrow. Max Holloway, Dustin Porier, and the UFC. Dana White's running a little late. He'll join us in about 10, 12, 15 minutes. So one of the fascinating stories And J. Mac, you and I talked about this yesterday. If Patrick Mahomes was not playing on a Thursday night football game

and they went to a backup, it changes our viewing habits. And I feel, and I've always felt that about golf. Tiger Woods got me to a TV. Phil Mickelson, if I wake up on Saturday night, I go to bed and Phil Mickelson is two shots out of the lead at Augusta or a U.S. Open or the British Open. Open. I'm watching all day Sunday. So Rory McElroy, to me, I think Deschambeau's got that feeling. Brooks Kepka about three years ago had it. He's been off. Dustin Johnson has a little bit of that to me,

but Rory to me really has it. If Rory is close to the lead, and right now he's three under after two rounds at the Open, British Open in Northern Ireland, five strokes off the lead. So he's got a viable shot. And, you know, the media, Jay Mack has been sort of confused with Roy McElroy. and so they don't they don't quite know what to make of him and you know i've thought a lot about this because i love rory mackleroy and i think a lot i thought he was going to be a europe's version of tiger woods he hasn't quite become that but he's a great great golfer but i want to talk about this and so it doesn't matter if you're a CEO a politician or a top athlete you're going to get annoyed with the media at some point because they ask a lot of dumb questions

and a lot of times they're prying. And the truth is, after 16 tries at Augusti, he won on the 17th visit to the Masters. And it was incredibly emotional for me as a viewer. Can you imagine what it was like to him? And so he was really honest about it. He just said, listen, I don't feel like hitting the golf balls and getting up and grinding out workouts,

because after he won the Masters, which was his soul vision, I mean, that's the thing he just, at this point, When you're great in the PGA over the last, you know, the Tiger Woods era, you pick your spots. You don't need to, I mean, some guys left the tour. You may golf seven tournaments a year that you really deeply care about. So he wins Augusta. And it was an incredibly emotional for the gallery, for me, for you, for the media. What do you think it's like for him?

And he was totally honest with the media, and they didn't know what to do with it. He was getting kind of grumpy. Well, that's because he wanted to take time off, and his next hyper-uber-focus went to this. at Portish, which is his home course. And so I think that's just what Gulf is. And I think this was why politicians and top athletes and CEOs, now you shouldn't go to a cold play concert and fool around with the HR lady. But the point being is, you know, sometimes the media has a right to pry and call you out.

But my point is, I just think Rory McElroy, it's like, listen, man, it's not about volume. it's about quality. I want to play the Masters, I want it. Now I want to get to Northern Ireland my home course. So right now he's minus three after two days, five back, very viable going into Saturday, and here's Rory today. I'm excited for the opportunity. I didn't have that opportunity six years ago,

so to play an extra two days in this atmosphere in front of these crowds. You know, I'm very excited for that. and I feel like my game's definitely good enough to make a run. Yeah, it was 20 years ago that I played the north of Ireland here. And never in my wildest dreams that I think that I'd be coming back as a Grand Slam champion with the support of a nation behind me trying to win an open championship. Yeah, this is going to be if, I mean, we're not, I guess in our space, we're not supposed to root for people.

I'm totally rooting for Rory McElroy this weekend. I'm watching the tournament with one agenda. pulling emotionally. I'm not overly religious. I'm rooting for Rory McElroy to just be alive Sunday with an hour and a half, eight holes to go, nine holes to go. Because I thought Augusta was as good at, I said it at the time. That was the best six hours of TV I had watched in succession in a long time. I mean, you had to go back to Tiger against Rocco, mediate at the U.S. Open. Maybe Tigers' last U.S. Open a master's win. Phil Mickelson had a master's win that was pretty remarkable.

But I'm pulling for Rory. So we talked about this yesterday on the show. As I said, I don't think in my lifetime there has ever been a division in football that has stacked in coaching as the AFC West this year. So this will be the first division in the history of the NFL that has had three plus head coaches that have won a Super Bowl and a fourth that's made a Super Bowl entering a season. And it's the only division in football where every head coach in the division has either entered a season having won a Super Bowl or won a national championship. So usually you have one elite coach in a division and one ascending one. And then one who's maybe a retread, but he's okay. He's on the brink.

and then one that's a total whiff. Here it's Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh, and whatever you think of Pete Carroll. And my take on Pete Carroll is, whatever you think of Mike Tomlin, you have to think the same of Pete Carroll because they're the same coach. They've got a trophy,

great motivators, great energy, really good sense of personnel, great culture builders, and defensive guys who I think sometimes can be a little tone-death to the offensive. line and the offensive sensibility.

You know, I wish Pete didn't love Gino Smith as much as he loves Gino Smith, but whatever. Also in this division, J-Mack, before you throw out your all-time, you know, coaching division, here's something else to consider. The best coordinator in football is in this division.

Spags. Jesse Minter took the 32nd rank defense to number one in a season. So he's a top five or six coordinator. Chip Kelly. So you not only have historical truths with this coaching staff. And yet if Pete Carroll's viewed as four, I'm sorry, that's, he is Mike Tomlin,

trophies, multiple Super Bowls, defense, culture, energy, beloved by most of his players. So your argument is the Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, or, and, Buddy Ryan. Yeah. So the only problem with Buddy Ryan, obviously he, you know, had a bunch of issues there on the sideline. He was a much better defensive coordinator. Yes.

Than he was head coach. But you could, I mean, Joe Gibbs is certainly top five on resume all time, right? Bill Parcell's probably top seven all time among head coaches ever. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And Jimmy Johnson, I mean, he needs no introduction. So I guess I could argue you might have four who have been to a Super Bowl. well, I have three of like the best seven of all time.

It's an interesting discussion, no? I will say, I think coaching's getting better because I will say, I think the AFC North with Tomlin Stefansky, John Harbaugh, and I think Zach Taylor's better than you do, but I understand the criticism. That's a good coaching division. And then we have Matt LaFlewer, Kevin O'Connell, Dan Campbell, and now we don't know what Ben Johnson is.

I think he's going to work. I think he's really, really sharp. So, I mean, we have three divisions where I don't look at anybody as a huge liability. Now, again, I think Zach Taylor's capable. I think he's bright. I think he, listen, he got to a Super Bowl with a terrible O-line.

Okay, is he a top 10 coach in the NFL right now? I would put him close to nine or 10, yeah. Zach Taylor? No, no, remember. Who's his owner? Cheapest owner in the league. Yeah, remember, who's his quarterback? That's the only reason he's not fired.

His quarterback's heard often. His owner is the cheapest in the league, and the front office is one of the smallest scouting departments. So you have to add context. Like I always say about Brock Purdy, it helps when you have Kyle Shanahan. If you look at Zach Taylor, you know,

Nick Seriani has the best GM and a top five owner. Zach Taylor has the most frugal ownership. They still don't have an outdoor facility. I think they're the only northern, Northern geographical team without one. And the front office, like, it does not manipulate drafts. They just draft their draft picks they have. We're just bending over backwards to defend Zach Taylor because he went to one Super Bowl, okay?

If I asked, if I pulled the GMs around the league, would you rather have Mike McDaniel or Zach Taylor as your head coach? Zach Taylor. No way. It's got to be McDaniel. Come on. You're not serious, are you? the dolphins in two years before McDaniel got there were viewed as a train wreck.

His first two years, he won one more game. So when you tell me how great Mike McDaniel's in, in a division where the jets have been a tire fire and the Patriots have been a tire fire for the last several years. So he entered it at a spot where, I mean, he got four wins almost automatically if you know what you're doing. He gets, do you talk about injured quarterback in it with Cincinnati? What about two? I got missing more time than any started quarterback. And yet McDaniel's made the playoffs twice.

One time you lose to Kansas City and negative 30. Zach Taylor and Mike McDaniel. We should do that resume. Zach Taylor and Mike McDaniel. I would take Zach Taylor. I think you're probably on my own. Jack Taylor has won multiple road playoff games. I don't know.

Have a face the Ravens. He's got a face, I mean, I think Stefansky's a great coach. I think. Is Zach Taylor? Colin, is Zach Taylor a top 10 coach in the AFC? Yes, yeah. I mean, he's definitely not better than any of the four in the AFC West. Let's just talk about that.

Let's just spitball. Okay. So Andy Reid, both Harbaugh's, McVeigh, Shanahan. Okay, I'll just get those out. Sean Payton. I'm at six. McDermott of Buffalo. Seven.

Dan Campbell. Mike Tomlin. Eight, nine. Pete Carroll, 10. So I think Zach Taylor, you start getting me. D'Amico Ryan's in Houston. He's been there for two years. he's been excellent.

Zach Taylor won three straight road games as a road coach and got to win a play of winning the Super Bowl with the cheapest owner in the sport and a front office that does no deals. Kevin Stifansky or Zach Taylor has won five playoff games. Kevin Stavansky has won Coach of the Year. How about this? Kevin O'Connell or your guy,

Zach Taylor? So you think coach of the year is bigger than playoff wins? That's like saying I won an Emmy or I got a new contract, which would you take? I mean, if Cifansky had Joe Burrow, what's it? Would you rather win an Emmy or get a five-year contract? Well, that's a different discussion. I mean, I'm not a time out. That's a different discussion. An award? Who gives a rip? Well, I mean, again, you get gifted Joe Burrow. Your expectations are

a Super Bowl contender every year. Who cares about awards? I mean, coach of the year? He's winning coach of the year with like three or four quarter He doesn't have anybody good. Yeah, you and I are just different business guys. You want plaques, I want pay. I don't want... I'm sorry.

Five playoff games, four on the road, I think. So by the way, you got easily 10 guys before you get to Zach Taylor. No, not easily. I think you get to 8, 9, and I don't think Nick Siriani's a great coach. Well, he won a Super Bowl. Again, yeah, okay, great. Siriani or Zach Taylor? Best GM in the league, top four owner.

Now, listen, you like plaques. I don't like plaques. I like w's. And the Bengals have not had a lot of those. I don't care about awards. I want playoff wins. Okay, what do you make, Colin, of the fact that every freaking September, Zach Taylor's team comes out and is ill-prepared to start the season every year?

Interesting. Interesting. Would it be that Burrow every year is recovering from an injury? And maybe the coach should get his quarterback to get healthier or get on the practice field or get ready. That was a sophisticated take. The coach has to get his quarterback. healthier. Why is the quarterback always hurt? Maybe they don't have an offensive line. There's an answer. There's an answer. Again, take a deep breath.

Cheapest owner. Don't pay for offensive lines. He always has bad protection. That's not Zach Taylor's issue. Sean McVeigh, part of his greatness, is less Sneed and Stan Cronkey who he can go in the market and buy. At one point, they paid Stafford and Jared Gough. You think Cincinnati? Cincinnati won't even pay T. Higgins. owners run sports. If you have a bad one, the owners run sports. And that's the way it works in the NFL.

You have an impulsive owner. I mean, it's not a coincidence. Robert Kraft has a bunch of rings. The Hunt family has a bunch of rings. Jeffrey Lurie's got rings. You think that's a coincidence? Oh, I forgot.

You mentioned the Patriots have a new coach. He's got a much better track record than, than, um, you know, I would put the label top 10. Yeah. I think Zach Taylor's in that 10-11-12 space. Okay, so if Zach Taylor hits the market, the Bengals firing, is he getting another head coaching job?

Yes, yes, absolutely. I would take the under on that. All right. Dana Lights around the corner, it's the hurt. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast inside the Parker for 22 minutes of pipe and hot baseball talk, featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the eye test, we've got all.

All the bass is covered. New episodes drop every Thursday, so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. Want more Heard? The Herd streams 24 hours a day,

seven days a week, within the IHard Radio app. Search Heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news,

huge news? We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down. Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand, because I, competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win

on Clay. Jen, she went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface, because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court-side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We've talked about this, that Kaelan Clark is a little bit of a black light in a hotel room for the WNBA. She's illuminated things that you may not be able to see at first glance. So when she came to the WNBA, just a lack of preparedness by the commissioner, lack of marketing, she really shines a light on it. And then the lack of travel. Then the women's Olympic movement was absurd not putting her on the team. Christine Brennan wrote about that in her book. And then we've also noticed that the players were very petty,

although I think they're getting over it. but she's really, Caitlin Clark has really shined a light on how bad the officiating is. It's not bad calls, it's no calls. This league is insane. And if you're a star guard, Kelsey Plum of the LA Sparks has gone out to say she played against a San Francisco team, 40 minutes, only three calls against her. She came out of the game with scratches all over her face. They just let star guards get abused in this league. The officiating is horrible.

this. There's only 179 active players in the league. Players have already suffered 141 injuries since opening day. It's like one per player. There have been 57 head and neck injuries in the past two and a half seasons. They just don't call anything. They don't call anything. And like the NBA, they allow more physical play in the playoffs. But this is a regular season.

You want your stars in the WNBA. You want them healthy for the All-Star game. You want them healthy for the playoffs. You don't want them banged up now. So in mid-June, Kelsey Plum, you can go back and look at that video. It's getting banged all over the floor. They only call 3,040 minutes, and now Caitlin Clark is hurt. So Natasha Cloud, who's another guard for the New York Liberty, came out and talked this week about the refs.

She says, I'm working my blanking, blank off for four and a half months in the off season. the refs here have way too much blanking impact on the game. Angel Reese has come out. It has to be fixed. I don't give a damn if I get fined. This blank is cheap. I'm tired of this blank. Kelsey Plum said, quote,

I drive more than anybody in the league statistically. So to shoot six free throws a game is blanking absurd. A lot of F words I can't repeat. So these women are ticked. And it's like, guys. guys, here's how it works. The NBA doesn't call a lot of fouls in the regular season. Why?

They want their players available for the All-Star game and the playoffs. In the playoffs, they let more go because physicality is more intense, there's more urgency, and it makes for a better television product. You don't want to let everything go in the regular season, so your players are all banged up. You want to develop these relationships with fans during all. All-Star weekend in the regular season. And then if you have to let the play and the calls slide a little in the postseason to ramp up

intensity, that's what the NBA did. And I get that. And I've always said the regular season's not nearly as much fun as the postseason. And for the record, 11,127 is the league average right now. That's up 15% over the same period last year. So if people want to watch this sport, keep the players healthy. call fouls, especially against Star Guards. J. Mack with the news.

No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. Hey, Colin, let's start with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Obviously, Aaron Rogers decided to join Mike Tomlin in Pittsburgh. Well, before Rogers signed there, Cam Hayward said he wouldn't pitch Rogers on joining Pittsburgh. But now that AR is on the roster,

Hayward says he's discussed his teammates present, at the facility. It worked out for the best. I know sometimes we live in a society where we want things now, but, you know, patience has a way of, you know, paying off. And to now see he's a Pittsburgh stealing and just walk him walking through the locker room, asking questions how we do things. He's bought in.

And, you know, that's all I can ask for, you know, our quarterback. And as a teammate, you know, I'm excited to go to work with him. Yeah, good luck. Listen, I think that's the easiest. That is the easiest division to predict. Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland. It's the easiest because Cincinnati just won't spend money. Smallest scouting department, cheapest owner, won't make deals.

Baltimore, if they're struggling at the trade deadline, would open up the checkbook and make a big deal. Huge advantage upstairs. Baltimore over Cincinnati, huge advantage. And Steve Boshadie of the race, I've had three different GMs tell me they think he's the best owner in the league. The worst owner is arguably the guy in Cincinnati. So Baltimore is going to win the division.

Cincinnati has the weapons in Joe Burrough and a decent coach. Pittsburgh is not going to, they'll be competitive and viable, but if you look at what's happened to them post Thanksgiving the last several years, have you noticed the trend with Pittsburgh? Why are they so bad late in the season? Because their coach is based on motivation. And that same motivation, motivation wears out. Like motivation's great in September, October, but you can't live on motivation.

Ultimately, you have to, you live on schemes and evaluation and development. That's not a strength for Pittsburgh, so they'll finish third, and Cleveland's trying to get the number one pick. All right, let's go on to a team that's way more interesting, and that's the Tennessee Titans and Cam Ward, the number one pick in the draft this year. It's weird. He's not getting a lot of hype like a certain fifth rounder in Cleveland. Well, Ward's teammate in Tennessee, Jeffrey Simmel, took issue with the lack of hype behind his quarterback while appearing on the NFL network.

First off, you know, I think that our team, Tennessee Titans, never get the respect and attention we need. I never seen the number one pick overall, never get the respect and, you know, quite frankly, and the attention that he deserved. I think that's a chip on the show. You could tell the way he'd go about his bidding, his swagger, her demeanor. Like, this is going to be one of the ones that, you know, I'm not excited to see it. I think we both agree this is, there are three teams, three or four teams, I absolutely feel, will look different this year.

New England and Tennessee top the list. They will look like different teams because we both like Brable and we both like Callahan, who we think, you know, was dealt kind of a bad hand on the Will Levis pick. So I think Tennessee and New England are playoff teams. They were bad last year. They won't be great, but they'll be really, they'll be like, Tennessee is going to be like Denver. They're going to find their win. to the playoffs, they're not going to win a lot of

playoff games. Like that the AFC's too loaded, too many veteran courts, too many Josh Allen's, Burroughs, you know, Mahalms, herberts, but I think Tennessee's a playoff. It's interesting. This whole, we don't have any hype. People are disrespecting us. I would prefer that if

I were Tennessee, right? I don't want everybody talking about me on TV all day. My mention's blowing up that. That's not what you want for a young quarterback, right? Wouldn't you rather be rich and anonymous as opposed to rich and famous? Colin? Well, I think the Titans are about as anonymous as NFL teams get.

It's SEC territory. So they're not I mean, let's be honest. Half the fans in that town are bigger college football fans, volunteer fans than Titan fans. So if you want to hide in the NFL, that's not a bad place to do it. It's not New York, L.A., Chicago. I mean, Caleb Williams, every snap

is discussed. When I'm driving around Chicago, it is Cubs and Caleb Williams. Those are the two topics. In the fall, you'll hear SEC talk as as you'll hear Titans talk in Nashville. Like it's a, it's a, so I mean, you can hide there, slow grow, develop, you don't have a ton of pressure. Interesting.

Final story, Colin, is the Golden State Warriors, bizarrely the only team who is not acquired to anybody this offseason, right? And we know Steph Curry 37, he's getting up there in age. Well, a friend of this show, Channing Fry, believes that at some point this season, are you ready for this? Golden State will end up making significant changes to their roster. I'm not being a troll. The Warriors blow it up halfway through the season. Look at the trend of where the NBA is going.

OKC is a very tall team. The Cleveland Cavaliers are a tall team. Boston is a big team. Denver is a big team. Minnesota is a tall team. Lakers, Clippers. Houston is extremely tall. Golden State is still playing small ball.

And I don't know if that works anymore. I think he's absolutely right. Absolutely right. I think at the All-Star break. Jason, we love, we both really like the NBA. You can argue right now, you start looking at the West. If, I mean, just look at the West today. We know Oklahoma City's good.

We know Houston's going to be really good. I mean, that's indisputable. If you look at Denver's moves, in Vegas, They're like, so that's three teams we know we're going to be good. We can argue, but DeAndre Luca Reeves and DeAndre Aiton and LeBron, that's going to be a good team. That's going to be a good team. I'm going to argue all day long. Cooper Flagg, Lively, A.D. Cairo.

That's going to be a good team. That's just the top five. That's just the stuff we know. And by the way, Minnesota is going to be good. Clippers. Yeah, I mean, again, I don't love them. You do, but whatever. They're good.

So, I mean, my take on this is, where does Gohers? Golden State, the smallest of all those and the oldest of all those. They're the oldest, smallest team in that labyrinth of the Western Conference. Like, where do they fit? Now, this minor surprise, but the Clippers are actually the oldest team in the league on average, followed by Rockets, Kings, Warriors. Here's my thing for Golden State. What does blow it up mean?

Are they trading Dremont? I don't know. Is there a market for him? Who's going to want Jimmy Butler at $50 million? you're obviously not moving off curry. I just, I feel like they're limited in their moves. And if you look right there. The difference is the reason I consider them the oldest team is because the guys that actually play.

Their core. Yeah, like their core. I mean, look at it. Steph, 37, 35, 35, 32 and 32. By the way, Buddy Heel feels like an old 32. Yeah. He's not like a springy 32. He's a shooter.

So their core is really old. And they're going to add Al Horford, supposedly. supposedly, they just get older. So, yeah, I'm a little worried about the Warriors. It's tough. You know, that GM, remember when he bailed a couple years ago? He's like, I don't want to blow this up. Bob Myers.

He got out of, he got that, what do they say, the last chopper out of Saigon. He got out of there quick. Yeah, I get it. Jay Mackle News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Dana White's going to join us.

Oh, this is interesting. I want to throw this out. Yeah, just interesting. I don't want to go too deep into the woods because it'll bore people. But I think Zach Taylor is a slightly better coach than Mike McDaniel because I think Mike McDaniel has a better ownership situation. I think Ross is one of the richer NFL owners. He's taking big swings.

I mean, go look at the Tyreek Hill deal. Cincinnati would have never done that deal. The Jalen Ramsey deal. Cincinnati would have never done that deal. J. Mack, if I could give any wisdom to any young broadcaster, it's what I always say, don't chase money. chase executives. There's the finite number of great owners in the NFL.

So the dolphins, you can say they're flawed, but they'll go spend big money on players. They'll go get Jalen Ramsey, Tyree Kill, Jalen Wall. Cincinnati doesn't do that. They won't even pay the guys they draft. They won't even pay their own guys. So I think having to coach Cincinnati is one of the hardest jobs in the league. They have the smallest scouting department, the cheapest owner.

And so I give Zach Taylor, he has to, every day he goes to work, he has to overcome that. Mike McDaniel's owners, I think he's the third richest owner in the league, and he may spend money foolishly, but he spends money. So Zach Taylor has four winning seasons.

Mike McDaniel has two. Zach Taylor has two division titles. Mike McDaniel has none. Zach Taylor has five playoff wins. McDaniel has none. Zach Taylor has two conference championships appearance. Mike McDaniel has none. So my take is, well,

Well, Tua, Tua's made Pro Bowls. This is not Joe Burrow. Oh, stop it. You can't keep up for Tua now. No, no, no. This is not Joe Burrow and Mitch Trabiski. The comp for Brock Purdy in this league is Tua. So if you love Purdy, you can't tell me Tua is a bum.

You can't have, it's like saying, I love Mike Tomlin and hate Pete Carroll. Same track record. You can't tell me you love Pertie and hate Tua. They both have been banged up. Both are small. Neither has a huge arm. neither a wild. So the truth is, one guy is resume with a cheap owner, a small scouting department, and mostly

bad old lines because they won't pay big money for a left tackle. Look what I'm getting. All right. You're going to let me dive into these immortal playoff wins. They won at the Raiders. I don't care. They beat the Titans. And again, it's not Zach Taylor's dialing up some great stuff here.

They won. What do I care? Well, you got Joe Bruno. You've got it amazing. easing quarterback. Now, this is the smart question, Colin. Let's say, Zach Taylor's fired and McDaniel is

fired. Where are the smart coaches, Jim Harbaugh, that kind of level? Where are they lining up to coach? Cincinnati or Miami? No, that's what I'm saying. That's an argument for me. Everybody wants to... That's right. You've got Burrow. No, no. Do you want to work at Fox Sports or Vice?

I have much more support at Fox Sports than I would advise. I would rather coach Miami than Cincinnati. That's why it's amazing. You would rather coach Tua than Joe Burrow? No, no. Joe Burrow is it. I have the cheapest owner, smallest scouting

department, no outdoor facility, can't get free agents. I got Burrow. It's great. But look at how hard it is to keep him healthy. They won't invest in offensive linemen and they won't pay T. Higgins and Hendrickson. I find it hard to believe that

if I gave you Chua and this team or Joe Burrow, you would say, I'll go coach to us team. Come on, there's no way. Joe Burrow is a superstar. I don't care how bad the owner is in the scouting department. Just having Burrow, you're going to be in the mix because he's that good. You've got a better quarterback, a better receiver.

If Hendrickson's ever signed, you've got a better edge rusher. You're better at all the premium positions. It's like I always say, who's your owner? Who's your boss? And I'm a huge fan. But what does it tell you that one great quarterback in the entire league last year didn't make the playoffs? If I said, guess who it is?

Cincinnati, with the cheapest owner, the smallest scouting department, won't pay their own players. Burrow doesn't like the Bengals. Tua loves the Dolphins. Burrow doesn't like the Bengals. He's perpetually unhappy with the Bengals. Tewa loves, he loves Miami. The Bengals are his coach.

All right, we go to Pittsburgh next. The T.J. Watts signing. What do we make of it? Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9-8-8-8-8-8. AM Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call. about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert. It's Myagel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jench and win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're the fastest man on earth, Alex, hello, looks to continue his season for the ages.

Sunday at noon Eastern only on Fox. By the way, before I get to my guest on the Steelers, you could be saying to yourself with Jay Mack and I had a fun argument is that, Colin, how could you choose Tua over Burrow? So when Jim Harbaugh took the Chargers job, he took it because of Herbert. But the other reason he took it is because they paid Harbaugh $15 million a year. The Bengals don't pay coaches like that.

They're also paying Greg Roman seven figures, Big Seven figures, and Jesse Minter from Michigan Big Seven Figures. So the second part of the equation was the Spanos family paid a fortune for this coaching staff. Cincinnati won't do it. The Chargers pay a fortune for their scouting staff. The Bengals won't do it. So it's not just Justin Herbert.

It's the Spanos family, who I'd criticize for years on being cheap are no longer cheap. They just built a brand new facility because they pay a buck a year for the SOFI lease. So they are cash rich. I know, Dean. I've talked to him about this. We've got dinner over this. That used to be a fair criticism five years ago.

Chargers aren't cheap anymore. The Bengals still are. So I like Burrell much better than Tua, but Tua's not Kenny Pickett. He's made pro-bole-bole-his comp. It's a very fair comp. Is Brock Purdy, who I don't love, but he's good. And he's Brock Pertie's top 15 quarterback. So, like, the bottom line is, I always said this.

When I took the job at Fox, a big part of it was, with the Murdoch family. The business channel, Fox Sports worked, the searchlight, they did movies, like everything they touched worked. Wall Street Journal, New York Post, it all worked. It wasn't just, hey, what am I making?

Or, hey, who I may next to. So you have to consider this stuff. So Cincinnati is not a good job. Because you get Burrow, you know, you get the $10,000, $10 million chandelier in an empty mansion. There's nothing else around it. You have to overcompensate.

Miami's owner may spend crazily, but he spends. They'll go get Jalen Ramsey. They'll go get Tyreek Hill. They're big, big spenders. Miami spends sometimes weirdly, but they'll spend. Cincinnati doesn't. They won't even resign their own guys. That's why Burroughs pissed.

He's always mad. He's trapped. So that's why I'm saying is that I think Zach Taylor has to overcome a lot more than Mike McDaniels does, and he's got five playoff wins, and McDaniel has none. I don't care he was beating. He's won. He's won playoff games.

They don't even have an outdoor or an indoor practice. And I got nothing against Mike McDaniel, but Zach Taylor gets beat up more than anybody in this league. And I just think it's unfair. All right. Mike DeFabo. Oh, they just built one after Burrough got man. Okay, they finally have one.

Sorry. All right, Mike. So listen, speaking of getting beat up, nobody likes when I beat up on the Steelers, but I've said the league has gone to protein, and the Steelers are into carbs. I love T.J. Watt. But they move off Minka, and then they pay Jalen Ramsey.

And then, you know, they're willing to move off defensive players, and then they always replace them with somebody older. And I love T.J. Watt, but I feel like they're tone deaf to the current movement in the league, which is pay one great pass rusher, and pay for offense. Keep your defense young and cheap. So you cover the Steelers. You know, this is what you do for the athletic.

Am I that far off base? Oh, I completely agree with what you're saying. And a lot of people in Pittsburgh would also agree because this is going to be the fourth consecutive year that the Steelers have the NFL's highest paid defense. They tried this before with T.J. Watt in his prime, where they made him the highest paid defensive player and went all in on defense. But because they had no quarterback, it didn't matter how great T.J. Watt was. It didn't matter what Cam Hayward was able to do.

It didn't matter what Minkett Fitzpatrick was able to do. So here they are again opening another window and supposedly going all in and doing it with defense and convincing themselves that Aaron Rogers might not be in his prime, but they don't need him to be if they have T.J. Watt in this highly paid defense. Well, that's the same thing they told themselves at the end of the Ben Rathesberger era. That's the same exact thing they told themselves last year with Russell Wilson. and we saw the result, and the result was no playoff wins in eight years. So does that mean, and coaches make more than GMs, Omar Khan just got, you know, the contract. He's not making nearly what Tomlin is. And I've had people in the league tell me that the owner tends to let the coach get more say

because he's paying him four times as much. This leads me to believe that ultimately Omar Khan does not run the organization, that Mike Tomlin pretty much runs the organization. Is that right or wrong? Well, look, we've seen Omar Khan evolve the Steelers in a number of ways. Like specifically with this contract, there's a lot of guarantee money involved. And that's something the Steelers have been reluctant to do. And I give Omar Khan credit for evolving the thinking in that way.

You've also seen the Steelers become more aggressive under Omar Khan. But to your point, here's where I'd agree. You look at the players that the Steelers acquired, there are a lot of guys that Mike Tomlin has had his eye on for a long time. D.K. Metcalfe has been a guy he's talked about. Jalen Ramsey is a guy he's talked about. So I think that absolutely, Mike Tomlin is one of the most powerful people in football.

And this whole notion that Mike Tomlin makes the most out of depleted rosters, I just can't get behind that because I think Mike Tomlin has a tremendous say in the players they draft, the players that they acquire free agency, and the players that they trade for. So absolutely, this is a roster full of players handpicked by Mike Tomlin. And so you also have to, when you criticize the Steelers, or hold them to a certain standard, also factor in that Mike Tomlin had a huge say in assembling this roster. We've had a couple of Steelers come on our show,

or it's been published and reported, Mike, that he is player permissive, which I'm okay with because most players can handle it. But Antonio Brown couldn't, and George Pickens couldn't. It's a fair criticism that Mike is so pro-player that there's always three or four loose, immature players that disrupt the room? Yeah, I think that that is fair.

There's always been kind of this debate. Did Mike Tomlin get the most out of Antonio Brown, or did he enable him? And, you know, we saw history in some senses repeat itself with George Pickens. He was not nearly on Antonio Brown's level in terms of off-field antics and getting in trouble with the law. But when it came to being a professional, realizing that you're paid handsomely and this team is counting upon you,

you know, he showed up repeatedly late for things. And, you know, I have to look at Mike Tomlin and say that he created this environment where it was possible for this to happen. Because you go back to where this whole postseason losing streak began, Labion Bell reported late for that playoff game. And now here we are years later. And you've got on Christmas Day, George Pickens reporting late for the first game right after he was active after Mike Tomlin said that he needed to grow up.

up. So Mike Tomlin says, George Pickens needs to grow up. His response to the very next game in which he's active is to show up late. That tells me he didn't have that player's attention. And I think it is time for the Steelers to change their ways when it comes to, you know, Mike Tomlin always has the saying, I don't treat everybody equally, but I treat everybody fairly. But when you're treating people on different levels, that is unfair to the guys who are doing the right thing. All right. One minute left. I think there are a nine and eight, eight and nine team. What say you, Mike? I think they are a nine or a 10 win team. But really, that's not the standard that people in Pittsburgh are holding this team to.

It has been, like I keep saying, eight years since a playoff win. They are desperate and starving for success. And I think that's why you've seen the Steelers have such a splashy offseason because they know that people are getting impatient. They want success and they haven't had it. And I just look at the fact that there have been in the history of the NFL in the Super Bowl era, quarterbacks over 40 have won to combine 12 games in the playoffs. Tom Brady has 10.

Every other quarterback has two combined. So it's Tom Brady and it's everybody else. And here the Steelers are throwing their face behind, assumed to be 42-year-old Aaron Rogers to try to snap that skid and end that troubling spot and that troubling stat. Mike DeFabo, that was a great stat. Hey, Jamek, why don't you give us a couple of gems like that? The Mike DeFabo comes on for five minutes.

He's dropping bombs like that. Hey, Mike, great having you on. We're going to have you on again at The Athletic. They got a good one in Mike. Thanks, buddy. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Of course.

Yeah, the staff, I was off. Occasionally, I miss a day, and they told me, get Mike on. This guy's sharp, and he was. So, yeah, it's a fascinating stat. Brady's got 10 of the 12 playoff wins for quarterbacks over 40. The rest of them combined have two. We're not anti-Aaron Rogers.

That's just the numbers. I don't know. Where are you on? I think they're 9 and 8 or 8 and 9. Where are you at on Pittsburgh? Yeah, we'll go 7 and 10. Just because the audience loves this sparring, Mike McDaniel versus Zach Taylor.

I just posted a poll on Twitter. Hey, if you could only hire one, McDaniel or Taylor, who would you hire? It's early or so far, Zach Taylor, 57%, McDaniel, 43%. So the unwashed masses are rolling with coward so far, so far on social media. It's early. No, I think it's like if you're listening to my show right now and disagree with me and you're a salesperson,

aren't you beholden to how good your manager is and how good your products are? Well, technically, if you're a salesperson, you're beholden to the regional sales manager who would probably be Joe Burrow in this case. They're not going to go anywhere without Burrow, right? You know that. If he's there, they're competing. How do you miss the playoffs with Joe Burrow? It can't all be that Zach is clueless.

He got him to a Super Bowl. You can't get there if you're clueless. You don't have to be A grade, but you're not D grade. Dana White's coming up. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions. because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud.

But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know.

I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches. players and the moments that define Roland Garris. Genschen win. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.