The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - The truth about the NFL

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

More thoughts on Broncos QB Bo Nix so far this season The Bills have improved a lot from last season and it might be their year There are 9 NFL teams that can't even compete this season   Guests: Greg Cosell, Lane KiffinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio. or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. So J-MAC's all fired up on our Bo or No segment.

So he did say during the break, he goes, I would take Brock Purdy over Bow Nix and Jalen Hertz over Boe-Nix. I think the Jalen Hertz discussion is fascinating because Jalen Hertz has either been excellent or not good at all, massively turnover prone or excellent based on his coordinator. Now, I could also argue Bo Nix is good because of Sean Payton. But my take is Bo Nix has been on a heater. He outplayed Mahomes two weeks ago with an incredibly thin roster with arguably without a number one receiver or a number one tight end and an okay offensive line in a really tough division.

So there were tough ones. Like I think, you know, there's certain players that are obvious. Like I took Jaden Daniels over Bo. I think he's more, I think he's like Lamar Jackson. C.J. Stroud, obviously. Obviously Herbert Joe Burrow. The Jalen Hertz one is, again, Jalen Hertz was a second round player that most... Ignore the second round first round.

You said that Bo Nix outplayed Patrick Wilhombs two weeks ago. Well, I'll raise you. Jalen Hurts outplay Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl. That's why I... He was unbelievable. That's why I said the Bo Nix Jalen Hertz one is tough. One has shown a proclivity for a lot of. lot of reckless turnovers. But he's also got four years of games where you're going to have more

turnovers. I mean, Nick hasn't played that many games. He's got like 12 games. I mean, basically he owns, is it the NFC South? He just destroyed that whole division. Like, that division stinks. It's the worst in football. So what that he's beating Carolina and Atlanta and these stacking numbers. Like, let me see you against good teams. I'm sorry, I just, I can't get anywhere near that. Like, I don't even think Nick is the top 15 quarterback. Ask your guy next, CoSell, is Bo Knicks the top 15 quarter? I guarantee you he's not. Guaranteed.

But the whole premise of today's show was anybody can go, Josh Allen's good, Patrick Mahomes is good. The point of that game was, can you spot it before you got it? Can you see it before you have it? And my take is, I like Jaden Daniels more. I like Herbert, Burrow, C.J. Stroudmore. the two toughies, there's three toughies. Like Jordan Love Bow Nix is hard for me.

So Bo Nix tends to be an anticipatory thrower. He throws it before guys are open. Jordan Love isn't. Jordan's a see it throw it. Now he's got a better arm and he's more athletic. And I like him. But I'm also seeing the reckless thing with Bo Nix, where sometimes he throws it late.

He tries to squeeze it in because he's got an arm that Bo Nix doesn't. So I think it depends on the coach. Like I think if you asked a deal with a deal with, defensive coach, which one? They take Bo Nix because he didn't turn it over. I think if you asked an offensive coach, many would say Jordan Love, I'll deal with his floor, but I love his ceiling. So Jordan's ceiling is higher than Bow's ceiling,

and I think it depends on the choice. Let's bring in Greg CoSell on that, 45 years NFL films. So we played a game, Bo or No, and I said, I don't think he's Burrow or Herbert or as explosive as Jay. Daniels, but we got into this Bo Nix Jalen Hertz territory where I'm like, right. I, from the pocket,

I like Bo Nix. In the Philly offense, I like Jalen Hertz. But I mean, let me just ask you if I said, Jalen hurts Bo Nix, most offenses, 90% of the time is from the pocket. What is the film say from the pocket? Harts or Bo Nix?

I think that you'd say that Bo Nix is a far more efficient pocket player than Jailen. Jalen Hertz. Jalen Hertz is a quarterback that can make plays outside of structure, but Jalen Hertz is not going to make a lot of between the numbers window throws within structure and timing. And we've actually studied that in great detail on my show, and there's very few of those plays. We're going to get to Bo Nex later, obviously, but Bo Nex has shown the ability, even as a rookie, to make window throws. And I've always felt, and Bo Nex can move, too, by the way, he's a plus athlete. But if you're going to be really effective from the pocket in the NFL, really effective,

then you need to be able to throw between the numbers and make window throws between defenders. Bow Nix has shown the ability to do that. That is not a strength of Jalen Hertz. Okay, so that was my takeaway, is in the Philly offense, but if you're asking 90% of offensive coordinators, the Shanahan's and McVease, Stafford's throwing that ball right down the middle of the field and you've got to make those in this league. Okay. So, Let's go, Greg, to the Pittsburgh Steelers. We know Mike's a good coach defensively. We know they've drafted and developed defensive players,

but they have flummoxed Lamar Jackson, where everybody else has struggled. They've flummoxed. I mean, he's literally a bad quarterback against them. What do they do so well overall and against Lamar? Well, one of the things I think they do is they play Lamar in many ways as if they're playing another quarterback. In other words, they're very aggressive.

They play man coverage. They don't necessarily go into the game with the idea that we have to play specially just because it's Lamar. They almost take a proactive approach, Colin, that we are a really good defense. Okay? So he's got to beat us. We're not necessarily going to change our game to play against him. And they have some really good players who are sort of unknown. And one of those players on their defensive front, we obviously know about what.

We know Herbig has become a really good player, and he's now playing because High Smith is her. But there's a defensive tackle they have. I think he's a top five defensive tackle in this league, and that's Keanu Benton. He's a second-year player out of Wisconsin. He is now playing probably 55 snaps a game because he plays as a pass-rusher as well, and he is a really, really good player. And they have two nickel packages, one with Alandon Roberts, who's a run stuffing line back. and the other with the rookie from NC State Peyton Wilson, who is an athletic, long, flexible, active past defender.

And they're really, really good with these specific players. So it's one thing that Harbock can coach and reshapes culture. But this defense was atrocious last year, but I want to talk about offense. Ladd-McConkey looks like a very good two. Their tight ends are suboptimal. J.K. Dobbins is good. we always knew that, but we saw the injuries. It feels like he figured out the culture and the defense pretty quickly with Jesse Minter,

and that the offense has taken some work with Harbaugh to get it right. Have you noticed anything over the last six weeks to make this offense, and maybe it's just Herbert's health, to make it more refined? Well, it's an offense, first of all, that's incredibly multiple with their use of personnel. It's incredibly multiple with their use of formations. They're very good with play action. Obviously, Herbert, he's a different player than Greg Roman had with Lamar. Herbert can drive the ball down the field.

And in fact, over the last four or five games, Herbert has driven the ball down the field as well or better than any quarterback in the league in terms of throwing the ball 20-plus yards and beyond from the line of scrimmage. So Herbert gives you that to mention off the run element, because the run element is a big deal, both in terms of personnel, formation, and volume. And they're very good in the RPO game for obvious reasons because of the run element. And as we know, the RPO game has a run element and a pass element to it. But we're seeing a play here.

This is a big-time seam throw by Herbert. And, you know, that's what he gives them. He gives them an added dimension to this offense that Lamar didn't quite give this offense. Lamar gave you other things that Herbert doesn't give you. but Herbert in the past element of this style of offense gives you more. Okay, so Buffalo's offense, it's always been a little Josh Allen put the cape on and save it. But this past week against the great Kansas City defense without Key on the rookie, without Kincaid, without a right tackle,

many of them all said 400 yards, they were great on third down, they dominate time of possession. How? I mean, is it, it looks like it's the most interesting bills, offense since Josh got there. Well, you know, it's funny. You say that, Colin, because I found that to be one of the most sort of enigma-wrapped-in-a-riddle performances that I've seen all year because they could

not run the ball, yet they controlled the ball for over 34 minutes and were phenomenal on third down. And so that's really strange. One thing they've done all year, by the way, is in the low red zone, 10 yards and in, they've been able to run the ball

really, really effectively. And that's a really important element. And of course, Josh Allen is a part of that. But James Cook has been really effective in the low red zone scoring touchdowns. He's a little more physical than people think. And I'm certainly not comparing James Cook to Emmett Smith or saying that their offenses like the Cowboys of the early 90s. But remember how when the Cowboys got in the low red zone, they just gave it to Emmett and they seemed like they scored all the time. The bills they get in the low red zone and James Cook scores touchdowns. I think he's got 11 touchdowns this year and the large majority come from the low red zone. They don't have what you'd call a true number one receiver. Obviously Cooper is there now, but he's only played two games. So we don't know exactly how that

will play out. But they're kind of, I think what Josh Allen has done better this year, Colin, than any previous year far and away is minimize risk. And that's a weird thing to say about Josh Allen the way people normally think about him, but he's minimized risk this year more than he ever has. Okay. Shane Waldron got moved out. Caleb Williams, it looked like, to me, when we pled with them, they schemed up six or seven layups, they got rid of the ball quicker did the bears. You know, it didn't produce lots of touchdowns, but it did feel like they made a move in a positive direction with a new play caller.

Well, one of the things that really stood out to me, and I think with a quarterback like Caleb Williams, no matter how gifted he is, and by the way, he is one of the most gifted throwers I've seen recently just the way the ball comes out. But you needed to sort of build up his confidence, build it back. So what is something that he's very comfortable with, Colin? He's very comfortable running the football. That's just one of those, that's who he is. Besides being a great thrower, he's just really comfortable running the ball. So one thing I noticed, particularly early in the game on third down, they didn't give him any checkdowns.

So that led me to believe that they probably told him if that receiver is not there, if the primary is not there on third and eight, let's say, just take off and run. And he did that a couple of times and gained first downs. And I think that helped him settle into the game because clearly as the game progressed, you could see the comfort level in the way he was delivering the football increase. Now, early in the game, just being honest, he missed some basic concepts. The same basic concepts he missed with Shane Waldron. He missed with Thomas Brown.

But I think they were trying to play to how he feels most comfortable. Now, we'll see if that can continue. The best throw he made was that outcut to commit for 25 yards, which was the flood concept, which was a beautifully thrown ball, precise ball location, required pace and touch. When he throws it and he's comfortable, he is. a pretty thrower. Okay, I want to talk about a team that we never discussed. They don't have much of a brand if they do it's bad Arizona.

Kyler Murray is expensive, he can get hurt, you hear the stories about commitment, I don't love them, but they have furnished him with some really nice pieces. Has this offense and Kyler been the key to the winning streak or are we overlooking their defense in other elements? Well, I think the run game with James Connor is often overlooked with this team. Connor averages about 16, 17 carries a game, and I'm sure not a lot of people realize that about James Connor. And he's a strong, powerful inside runner, and a lot of their runs are interior runs. And he's a sustainer.

And the other thing, which probably would be surprising is he's got a little more big playability than people think. He has the second most 10-plus-yard runs in the National Football League, and I think only Sequin Barclay has more. So he's a guy that is both a sustainer and provides a big play element as well. And that really helps Kyler Murray, of course, because he's part of the run game. So now it's just not a matter of dealing with Kyler. You have to stop a base run game where they just line up and give it to James Connor. So he's a critical piece of this entire team, really, because now if you can run the ball like that,

you can control the pace and tempo of games and their defense, which, by the way, is incredibly well-schemed under Jonathan Gannon, but doesn't really have stars, with the exception possibly of Buda Baker. Jonathan Gannon does a terrific job with how he schemes up his defense. I want to go to Philadelphia because I've said I think there are three teams now that look like Super Bowl trophy teams. Kansas City, Buffalo, Detroit. Philadelphia is the enigma for me.

is that Jalen Hertz isn't great from the pocket. I don't trust Nick Seriani, but I'm watching their defense against Jaden Daniels. And for years, the back end was a huge liability, and it doesn't feel like it is. So let's talk Philadelphia's defense. They bottle up a Jaden Daniels. What say you?

What do you see? Well, their defense is playing really, really well, and it's a lot of the details of defense. It's the Vic Fangio scheme. So what that means is you start with what's called a quarters structure, meaning you've got two safeties that are about 12 yards off the ball, two corners that are about seven yards off the ball. It's a quarter structure, and you can do anything from that structure. But one thing about the Fangio defense that's often overlooked because of the way they coached the back end

is the importance of linebackers, second-level defenders as past coverage players. They really want their linebackers to get more depth in coverage than a lot of teams do the way it's coached. So Zach Bond and Nkobi Dean have gotten better and better and better at being able to do that, and it's been absolutely critical. Plus, one thing they do really, really well is they reroute interior receivers, slot guys, and that really helps the back end. That's exactly what happened last week on the re-blankenship interception. Cooper Dijin did a great job of rerouting Noah Brown,

and it allowed Blankenship to stay outside of Brown and making the interception. But they have played really, really well as a unit, and it's all in the details. By the way, Sequin Barclay is obviously talented, and the Eagles generally have good old lines. Does he do, is there something about Sequin Barclay? I always think he's such a thoughtful guy whenever he talks. And my take is, when I watch him play, I think he's a thoughtful running back. Like he's a thoughtful guy.

Like his ability to see holes is better than average to me. But they also have a great offensive line. But there is something different. Like stylistically, what does he do that not all backs do that is special? Well, I'd say this, and I think you hit it right on the head when you said there's something different this year. I've watched him since his days at Penn State. And I always felt watching his tape, it's all based on tape study. It was that he was an explosive back.

but despite his size, Colin, not a true sustaining back, not a great confined space runner. This year, he has been so much better running in confined space and being a sustainer in addition to the fact that he can take it to the house on any given play. He's worked so much better in those tight areas. He's been a re-accelerator. I learned that from Fred Taylor years ago when you talked about the ability when you're working inside and you sort of have to slow down a little to then re-accelerate. and that's a really hard trade for running backs.

So Barclay this year has been better than ever than I've ever seen him at working between the tackles inside in that small area. And I just think it's the best we've ever seen him. Yeah, he's fun to watch. Okay, finally. We'll start with, I've been talking about Bo Necks, and I said, listen, I've got seven, eight games. Well, you should be.

Yeah, seven eight games in a row I've seen him. And I know Sean Payton's great, but they don't have great personnel. I like Cortland Sutton. They have backs I like. they have a great left tackle, but they don't have a lot of great personnel. Their defense, actually, I think it's got better overall personnel. Your thoughts on Bo Nix before we get to your play of the week. Yeah, I really like what I've seen from Bo Nix.

He's gotten incrementally better every week. I had a chance to spend time with Bo Nix in the draft process, Colin, and he's an incredibly intelligent kid. One thing that made a lot of people wouldn't be aware is he called all the protections at Oregon. And that's not something that a lot of college quarterbacks do. So he came into the NFL pretty savvy and aware about defensive fronts, about pressure schemes. And when you combine him with how Sean Payton coaches offense and how he gets receivers open, particularly primary receivers, it's really a good fit.

And there's an efficiency to Nix's game. I mean, look at last week. He was 28 for 33. So receivers don't have to be great to play in this offense. And the receiver who catches the ball on the big play that we can go to. now was a late round pick out of Utah, Devon Valley. You're probably familiar with him being out in the Pack 12

area. And you know, he's become, in a sense, they're number two receiver behind Sutton. But this play, to me, we spoke early on about window throwing. This is exactly what we're talking about. This is really, really hard. So he's in the

gun in a three-by-one set. Now, what are you going to get from the defense? Is you're going to get kind of a split coverage here. They're going to play cover four to the boundary, okay, and they're going to play cover two to the field. You see this a lot in the NFL, these variations of quarters coverage, where they're still two deep safeties. So now, what are they going to run? The route concept here is going to be the tight end. Nate Atkins is going to run a short route. And Vellie, who's about 6364, I remember doing his tape coming out of Utah,

he's going to run the seam route here. So in some ways, it's kind of a high, low version here. Now, a seam because it is split safety, that's a good concept to run a seam route in the middle of the field. But you've got to deal with the linebackers, the underneath defenders, and we know that that's safety because it's cover two is going to retreat, because that's what safety's do in cover two. So now as you run this, you're going to see that the linebackers, the second-level players, they do drop back here. So now that tells Nix that the throw has to be layered. He can't drive this boy has to layer the throw into that void in the middle. But the key thing here, and this is really good, is there's no one to control, no route that controls the backside safety, Jesse

Bates. So he can slide inside. So this throw has to really beat Bates as well as getting only underneath defenders. This is a big-time window throw, and you have to be able to make these throws. You can see it really well here. Look how tight this is when you see it, from from this angle. So he's made a lot of these throws, Colin. And I got to tell you, his arm, while it's not a gun, we're not saying it's, you know, top five gun, it's been stronger in the NFL than I think a lot of us would have thought coming out, including myself. Yep, same here. I said this earlier. I saw him live twice in college. My question was he's got a Derek car arm. It's okay. It's not special. It's gotten better. Aaron Rogers' arm got better from Cal to Green Bay.

Bo Nix has a better arm today that he did in college a year ago. I don't see any question about that. I agree. Greg Coasell is always, 45 years NFL films. Thanks, Greg. Thanks, Colin. Appreciate it. By the way, Lane Kiff and Ole Miss, some believe a team good enough to win the national championship.

Why, Lane is fascinating. Ole Miss just went and paid for a new team. They went and paid for stars. An NIL team. I mean, he does some high school recruiting, obviously. It's a different approach. I think it's harder to build chemistry and culture that way, but Ole Miss is the real deal.

And I want to talk to Lane. And the other thing I was thinking about this yesterday, college football is harder to coach now than ever because of the transfer portal, NIL, you've got to be a GM and a coach. Let me ask you this. Yesterday we talked about everybody wants to hire an offensive coach. Vrable and Belichick, top two candidates' defensive coaches. If Lane Kiffin takes Ole Miss to the natty, win or lose,

is he not the best offensive candidate available in the NFL? he's already coached there just a thought just a thought a thought exercise jamaq just like when i pushed back on brock purdy's better than mahomes it's just a thought exercise you want another thought

ask uh lane kiffin about dart is he one of these quarterbacks that could rise up the uh nfl draft rankings because we're looking for a third guy in you seem to like riley leonard um i'm partial to milro but he's got a good kid in dart remember he was at u sc well milro's better now than Riley Leonard. That's no question.

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Discover true craftsmanship. Learn more at Genesis.com. Love mine. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the I-Hart Radio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should. call it and oh we were thinking i'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before jonas brothers was this is how you guys remember it going down yes i have a very different memory of this we were talking about a thing a bit for the podcast for people could call in and say hey jonas and then

i wrote down on my little notepad hey jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast but thanks for remembering that guys listen to hey jonas on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and

friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle Greg. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

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Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went.

I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world. right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving well good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Joining us this hour, Julian Edelman in studio next hour, J-Mac with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Crazier stories of the season is this 49ers malaise, if you will. They headed into Week 12 with a 500 record, massive injuries all season. Brock Purdy, not a great showing against Seattle, though, you know, I could defend him if you need me to. But Kyle Shanahan made sure to dispel the notion that his quarterback, Brock Purdy, has regressed. It's hard to make a lot of progress after the way he played last year.

It was hard to make a lot of progress after the way he played his seven games in his first year. so I think Brock's playing at the exact same level. I think there's different circumstances around them. So I think Brock's doing a lot of good things, but we're all going to be judged on winning games. And that's why our team's got to find a better way to win it there in the 4th so we can get a record, right? I actually agree.

I think Brock's Brock. I think he's been fine. I didn't have him at this elevated level you did, but I think he's not the issue. I think they've got a lot of issues. One of them is their defense, latent games? It's not very good. A play calling late in games has not been very good.

The special teams has been abysmal. awful specialty. So here's the weird thing. If you rewatch that Seattle 49ers, even in the condensed version, you can see as soon as Bosa goes off the field, Seattle goes right down the field for two touchdowns. When Bosa's on the field,

they only had six. They couldn't do anything. And they did this. They noticed no kiddle Seattle defensively. So they just played with one high safety and dared Sam Fran to run, and they couldn't. They just stacked the box.

And there's nobody to break the game open with no IUC, no kiddle. Yeah. So 49ers not in a great place. That being said, LaFleor did talk this. week and said the 49ers are still one of the premier teams in the league. They're as good as anybody. However, let's show some Brock Purdy stats just for the haters out there.

Brock Purdy this season, numbers a little depressed from last year. His yards per attempt are down. His touchdowns are way down. I'll let you take some pot shots at Brock if you care to. No, no, those numbers are fine. I've said before, the Brock's fine. He's got a 96 pass rating. That's what you are when Trent Williams may not be 100%.

Christian McCaffrey's gone and Brandon Ayuk's gone. So I, listen, I've said, I think Brock Pretty's a franchise guy. The number's really important. That's everything. That's what I say. If it's 40 million, I'm good. If it's 48, I'm not as good. Dak at 40 mil.

Great. Dak at 60? Get the hell out of town. Right. So I think Brock Pretty, I won't take a shot. I think actually him being as efficient as he's been without his deep threat, an older left tackle, questions at right tackle, kittle hot and cold. McCaffrey out is actually the best argument for Brock Purdy.

He doesn't have all his toys. Now I look at Brock Purdy and think, okay, yeah, that's fine. He's a franchise quarterback. It's just he's a number. Burrow, Herbert, pay him what you got to pay him. Alan, Lamar, Mahomes. Pay him what you got to pay him. The next level of quarterbacks is, what's the number?

As my 11-year-old daughter would say to that response, Actually? Like, I can't believe you're saying nice things about Purdy and defending him. I know. I'm stunned. I'm really proud of you, man. You're all grown up now. Well done. Let's go out of the next story. And this is a quiet disaster in New York. So Dexter Lawrence, remember, came out yesterday and was like, why are we benching Daniel Jones? He's our best quarterback. Well, Brian Daibol has now been forced to respond to Dexter Lawrence. Colin, the Giants are a mess. I got a lot of respect for Dex. Dex has been a teammate of Daniel for a while. a pretty good relationship with there.

And look, everybody's not going to agree with the decision. And I understand that. We make the decision we feel is best. And then we move forward and get ready to go for practice here. Everybody's going to have certain opinions. I got a lot of respect for all our players. I think we're focused. We'll be focused and do what we need to do to play our best against Tampa.

So it's little, but this was five and a half yesterday. It's now ticked up to six as there. I wonder if people are like, oh boy, if Dexter Lawrence, the leader of the defense is wondering what the hell we're doing pulling Daniel Jones. Is everybody going to follow suit when we get a half-ass effort from the Giants? What's the weather like? I have not looked.

I don't like Florida teams in November, December, January going up north. hadn't thought about that angle. Mike Evans expected to maybe return back at practice this week. That's a good get back. Tibido for the Giants should be back. I think the move is to take the Giants here, but oh, they're just, they're gross. Like, yuck. I just, yeah.

Anyways, final story, let's go to the NBA. Hey, I know you were tuned into this one. Milwaukee Bucks got a big performance from Yannis. Unstoppable, 41, 9, and 8, including 25 in the third quarter. He literally was running his own layup line against the Bulls. Chicago is not very good. Janice is 50 game with at least 40 points. Dame Lillard had 10 assists.

Bucks have now won, or second straight, I think three or four. They're starting not quite to percolate. I mean, the Bulls stink. But the Bucs are getting. Getting past that early season struggle. Yeah. Collin, you think they'll be okay? No.

Yeah, I'm with you. I think there's limit. I think they are a trade deadline team. They have got. Now, here's the problem. Nobody's giving up good young wing defenders. So, I mean, it's like one of those things in the NFL, like nobody gives up a great offensive tackle left or right.

They just don't give them up. You've got to draft them. Nobody's, you know, nobody's giving you Mikhail Bridges. That's why when the Knicks got Mikhail, you're like, that just doesn't happen in the league. It's hard to get those guys in their prime. So I think they've got real structural issues. I mean, Philadelphia has got personality issues. Milwaukee has structural issues.

To me, it's Boston, Cleveland, Knicks. You can have the rest of the east. I don't know how much of this you watch, but like when Yonnas goes off the court, Colin, oh my gosh, the Bucks are terrible. It's like the Yokic, when Yolkich leaves the game, you know, the Nuggets regress badly because he does it. Let me ask you this. What's up with the Pacers?

Didn't we love them at the end of last year? I love them. Honestly, I'm a little rattled by that question. I don't even know what the record is. Okay. A lot of people are saying Halliburton's not the same player. A lot of people are saying that. That's not great.

I like the Pacers coming out. Last year you had him as Magic Johnson and John Stockton hybrid. Tyrese Hallib. Can we get back to talking about the Lakers? They got a game tonight. You're going to watch it? Who's that? Lakers Orlando.

Where's that? Orlando. Yeah, I'll watch what's the 430? I think so. I think I'm going to cause them to watch that or something. Are you? Yeah. Thanks for the invite.

There's a lot of big things happening with management. Yeah, clearly. Oh, management hanging out with you, not me, huh? I guess my days are numbered here. All right, Jay Mack of the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News.

Elaine Kiffin's around the corner. You know I noticed something, J-Mack? I don't know if I should give you this yet. It's interesting. I just don't want to... I'm going to save it next. It's interesting. I think you'll like it.

It's kind of fascinating. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

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So I was telling you, JMAQ, this is interesting. So I looked at the NFL draft order right now. Is the NFL getting a little NBA-ish, where the middle and the bottom of the league is getting bigger and less watchable? So right now, we're in week 12 of 18, and there are nine teams in the NFL that can barely compete. Nine teams with three or fewer wins. Nine of 32. Jacksonville, Tennessee, Cleveland, Giants, Vegas, New England, Jets, Carolina, and Dallas. Some of these teams are already soft tanking.

I don't remember a year when multiple teams were doing that. And so why would this be? Because as the NFL gets more quarterback-centric, and I think that's pretty clear, and more quarterback-reliant that if you don't have one, you're bailing water. I mean, we're going into week 12, and these, I mean, you start looking at these teams, Jags, Titans, Browns, Panthers, Patriots, some of these are soft tanking already. So you don't want to become the NBA, where you have great teams at the top, a small middle class, a small, soft middle, and then garbage at the bottom nine.

That's the NBA, and that's a problem. You want as many watchable, viable teams. Now, some of these teams without a lot of wins, like Chicago, is still very capital. because Caleb Williams is an insane talent. Not every team that's building or becoming something is unwatch. I mean, you know, I watch Washington. They're kind of slumping now. They're a fascinating team to watch with a great future.

I think Chicago is going to win games. And I still think the top of the NFL is great and the middle is good. The middle of the NBA is not good. But you don't want to become NBA where you're just reliant. If you don't have two stars, you can't compete and you become unwatchable. and I do think is that the league made a choice years ago to become more offensively centric and more quarterback-centric. Why? Because once you pay quarterbacks $45, 50, 60 million dollars, the owners are like, you have to protect these kids. These are the number one asset. You've got to protect them. So the rules all veered smartly to protect human beings to less shots at quarterback, can't drive your body on quarterback.

And people complain, but you want quarterbacks healthy. And so it's just interesting right now. The bottom of the NFL is getting larger. and less competitive. And that the NFL's, oh, now, now, the NFL does provide the ability in just one-off season to get good fast if you get the right coach or quarterback or both. I mean, Harbaugh's changed the Chargers. Sean McVeigh changed the Rams. And so I want to go to Lane Kiffin, who's fascinated. He's coached in college multiple spots.

He's coached in the NFL. And right now, there are a lot of people that think this is the most underrated team in college football. The only team that's top five in offense and defense. And Lane, it's unique. You've coached on the West Coast. Do you coach in the NFL? You've coached in the South. You've coached small college football.

What I find fascinating is that you went heavy into the NIL and bought star players. And now, I have to ask you, because I'm seeing a lot of coaches struggle with this and you're not. How do you build chemistry and culture when you kind of went the free agent route in college football? You've done it. Other teams are struggling with it. How did you do it in the Transfer Portal NIL world? Well, Colin, that's a lot of work. You know, and I think some's trial and error, you know, when it first started.

And I kind of looked at professional sports, not just football, but like basketball. Just because you put together free agent teams that seem like they should be good on paper, you see it all the time in basketball, and then they don't play, they don't make the playoffs, don't play well because on paper it was. So we spent a lot of time as we put together these players who they were. You can't buy culture. You can't buy culture. So to me, we had to have a culture set that we had to get the right guys.

And also even look at even within a position group, you know, a guy, how does that guy fit from a culture standpoint? And what do we have in the room in case the guy's not great culture that we can still manage him well enough so that he plays well and fits into the team? Because everybody's not perfect. So you're obviously a very clever offensive coach. But under Saban, you probably stole a trick or two because your old miss team is a sack machine. Did you take, I mean, you've become somebody, and this, again, this isn't everybody. You're an offensive guy, but yet your defense feels like you pay attention to it. Is some of that a little Saban influence possibly?

Or Pete Carroll? Well, I think number one, that's really good players. We have much better defensive players than we had at the beginning when we got here. And so it's taking some time to do that. We did take Nick Saban's coordinator and Pete Golding, so we got that system. So you're all right on that part. And Pete Golding's done an amazing job with these guys schematically

as we put together these pieces that some were here last year. Some decided to come back instead of go to the NFL. And then we obviously brought some in, as your highlights are show, Prinsley, brought in a lot of players. And that started with that Georgia game. year ago. You know, we, Gordja beat us pretty bad. And it was very obvious to me from the beginning of the game, we didn't look like they did. And our line of scrimmages were not like

theirs. And they bullied us and really looked at it, hey, if you're going to beat the bully, you've got to kind of become the bully. And so we got a lot of players that are bigger, longer, stronger, faster to fit that mold and not just try to outscore people. You know, I said that at the end the day. These guys like Prince Lee, you see there on that clip, they end games. So we kind of looked at it from the NFL model too, of like, okay, where are we going to put our energy in recruiting? Where are we going to pay certain positions? And much like much different than traditional offensive teams that, you know, load up on offense.

We said, no, we got to make sure we have defensive linemen and we got to make sure that we got some ends that can close out games. So when we take these guys to the end, they're there to finish them. And ironically, Prince Lee was not available for the LSU game and he didn't play in the fourth quarter. of the Kentucky game, both times needing fourth down pass rushes to stop them. I want to touch this before we go. Olmust takes on Florida. This team, many believe, is the dark

horse to win it all. Lane, if you decided tomorrow, let's say you go to the national championship, win or lose. You would be the number one free agent, offensive mind, going to the NFL. You will be offered a job, absolutely. Why wouldn't you take it?

This is really neat. In order, you know, the way to build college teams now has become like the NFL from evaluation, obviously paying players, putting together your roster, but you still have the really neat college elements of the fans and the passion and the small towns. And so I really enjoy where we're at. I really like it. I really like that also, when you win, the thing that I don't like about the NFL, when you win,

you kind of get punished, you draft last. When you win more in college, you're able to go get better players. because now they see, man, I can go there and win championship. I can go there and meet Georgia. So we've spent a lot of time to get it up to this place. That wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to me. You've leaned into the social media. I think it's great.

Nick, by the way, and you people can look and say, oh, they fought, but there's such an obvious mutual respect between you two. We've only got 45 seconds left. I do think you're the unique combination. Are you worried at all if you get in? Your first game could be up in nine degrees. in Columbus or 9 degrees in Penn State. You're a guy, you know, you know Southern Cal the South.

Is that a real thing out there, a real concern? Southern teams heading north in December. Yeah, and I'm just going to speak in general, not, you know, because we got a lot of games left. We've got two games left. We've got to win. But, yeah, that's a concern just like the old days of Tampa Bay going up to Green Bay. Yeah.

You know, that that's a concern that people will have and that they're not used to at all. or sometimes in the NFL, you've played throughout the year up there. You know, the South teams haven't. So, you know, the good answer to that is play really well in your games, perform really well at the end of the season so that you end up playing at home. Yes, it sounds simple, but it is the SEC. They're at Florida this weekend.

Watch Ole Miss. It is NFL bodies. It is creative offense. They have an NFL quarterback. 30 seconds left Jackson Dart. He's 6'2. He's got an arm. I've seen him. I saw him play at a camp one time. Is he a first round pick to you?

He's an amazing leader. He really helped put the, like no player I've ever seen. He helped put this roster together in the offseason. He was on the phone with a rush in, with a right corner, you know, helping putting this team together because he's like, I'm coming back. I want to do something really special. So somebody's going to get a really special player and a really special leader. That's great. I love hearing that. We're watching some Jackson Dart. Awesome. Look at that throw.

Holy God, that's a good throw. Lane Kiffin, you look good. Good luck. Gainesville is crazy and amazing. Is that at home? Are you at home or your road this week? Let's see what it is. We are in the swamp.

No. Kickoff. That's loud. 9 a.m. It's loud, dude. I've been to the swamp. It's loud. You better tell your team it's loud.

I hope you give my heads up on that. I will. I've been there. Lame Kiffin. He played against Tim Tebow and Urban Meyer there. It was really loud. They were number one in the country. Thanks, Lane.

Good luck to Ole Miss. Eight and two, nine in the college football playoff, and he has built something special. Offense and defense, NFL quarterback, Lane Kiffin. Great stuff. Julian Edelman last hour. They're good, dude. If you watch them play, that is NFL bodies, NFL quarterback, NFL coach.

If there's a dark horse to win it, it's Ole Miss. All right, hour three coming up. Live in L.A., it's the herd. Hey guys, it's us The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

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Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your performance. Podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on, a Mormon polygamist,

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