The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - The wild NFL offseason

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

Thoughts on the NFL free agency period, the Tush Push possibly getting outlawed, Aaron Rodgers taking his time, and more What to expect from Cooper Flagg when he gets to the NBA   Guest: Dianna RussiniSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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All right, here we go. It's hour two and a Thursday. Jay Mack and I are off tomorrow. Tomorrow, it's the best of the herd, taking some Fridays off here in the late spring or early spring. So it was interesting last night. So the Dodgers are undefeated right now. Padre is also off to a tour and start. Braves are really struggling.

And the big Takamatric baseball, it's crazy. The innovation, you know, we've always looked at baseball. It's a little bit of an antique store. It's a little dusty. And baseball has suddenly decided that we're going to take some innovation over the last couple of years, and it's amazing. from the bigger bases to the pitch clock, to the putting runners in extra bases, you know, extra innings on bases.

And it's just like, it's like Grandpa bought a convertible sports car and joined a Pilates class and has a new girlfriend named Skyler. The old sport that's dusty has decided to upgrade and be progressive and smart. And let me tell you, it has worked. So last night at the Dodger game, Max Muncie, who had been sampling the torpedo bat and not, doing anything like again i've said this yesterday Aaron judge and Otani are not using it

and crushing it's not for everybody but I do think if you do use it for certain guys who hit the ball closer to the handle sometimes it can get you hits but it's as I said earlier this year it's going to help the Gordon Ramsey chefs not the guy working at Applebee's in the end

you've got to be a great player so Max Muncie's a really good hitter and he used it but then he ditched it last night in the eighth inning and hit a two run double to tie the game so Max Muncie's like, yeah, I'm going to get rid of this thing. And his quote was, I felt like the bat was causing me to be a little bit off plane, a little bit in and out of the zone because my swings felt really good tonight,

but maybe just a bit off. So I decided to go back to my regular bat. So again, Otani and Judge are not using it. And Otani is batting 333 currently, and Judge is batting 368 with four home runs and 11 RBIs. and Otani, after trailing early 5-0, Dodgers race back as they're prone to do. Six of their eight wins this year have been come-back wins, and Otani on Bottlehead night for Otani wins it. On the center field, Harris is back.

Makes you say, how much fun is this? Yeah, it does remind me, even to a greater degree, the Yankees always drew very well, but when they got A-Rod playing in his prime in New York, like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday games at Yankee Stadium, they felt big. And that's what Otani does. Like Dodger games now, and you'll see the Lakers Warriors tonight. It's very hard.

We live in an event as a society. And it's very hard. I mean, the World Cup ratings are up. March Madness for the guys is generally up. The Olympics are up. NFL feels special. You know, Caitlin Clark games feel special. It's very hard, even in a big city like Los Angeles to make Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday stuff

feel like an event. And that was A-Rod in New York when he came to the Yankees. It just made Thursday-Wndes games feel special. Dodger games now? It is. Man, when you get into these late innings, these close games, that crowd is electric. And with that from the athletic,

Diana Rusini, covered the NFL for now a decade, is joining us live. So, one of the interesting things about these winter meetings is the tush push. So I have said this before. I'm a big fan of innovation.

It doesn't matter what it is. NIL transfer portal. It's up to governing bodies to pull back. It's up to the IRS to slap an accountant on the hand and go, you're not going to use that loophole anymore. But an accountant's job is to find the loophole. Okay, so I appreciate the innovation of the push push. I think it's awful television.

I don't think it's a football play. So kind of give me the background. They've tabled it, but give me some insight on this. that some behind the rope stuff what you're hearing yeah who knew that the tush push would be the most talked about item at the league meetings there's so many other things that we could have been discussing and chasing after but this this stood out without a doubt because it became so controversial over the last few weeks in terms of the momentum that was building over the last year or so i'd been reporting and talking to you here on the show about how it would come up in conversations with the

competition committee and there was definitely a feeling around the league that Roger Goodell did not like the play, but no one ever thought that it would get to a point where it would seriously be in trouble here of getting banned. So now here we are where we're at the owner's meeting at the beautiful Breakers Hotel with the sun shining down on us. And you've got people from the Philadelphia Eagles running around talking to all the different coaches and GMs, trying to convince them that they shouldn't ban this play, laying out all the reasoning. And the big thing you need to know about this is the people that are opposed to it have been saying that it's due to the fact that it's the safety of the players is the concern but there's no data to back it up at

this point right so people like philadelphia are going well there's no data here so what are we talking about is it just because you think the play is ugly shah mcvay came out publicly and said that that's his reasoning so in the end um after all the campaigning it really did feel like a political campaign for the last three days in Florida. When it came down to it, the votes, it was essentially 16, 16, it was even. So they decided, and, you know, it's a straw vote at that point. So they decide then to just table this thing. And that is just nothing but bad news for Philadelphia.

Because essentially what they're going to do is Green Bay, the team that proposed it is got to be the team that rewrites the language. They're going to rewrite this thing in a way that doesn't look so specific to this one play to Philadelphia. So it's going to look and sound a little bit more like the quarterback sneak. So this is going to be a way for them to get this ban. So in my opinion here, Colin, I think the days of the tush pusher over. I don't think we're going to see that play allowed in the NFL anymore, just based on the conversations I'm having and just the fact that they tabled it.

And look, at the end of the day, when owners know that the commissioner, Roger Goodell does not like something, it tends to push them in one direction. and that's in favor of what Roger Goodell wants. Is there a specific reason? I've got my own theories, but why Aaron Rogers wouldn't just say I'm going to be a stealer, like what's the weight here? Is it like because D.K. Metcalf was so, in my opinion, overpaid

that there's only about $30 some million for Aaron. He's not going to sign a Russell Wilson deal. You know, I mean, I don't blame him. He's like, hey, I'm not going to sign one of these performance deals. I want at least Sam Darnel. money. Is that the hold up the money or is it something else? It's funny. It's the hardest question I get in sports and all the years I've been doing this. What is Aaron thinking? Who knows? Who knows? But to your point when it comes down to it,

usually it's money, right? Finanals are always part of it. He does not need to sign and take some cheap deal. He knows that the Steelers need him. Do I think he was going to be willing to take less to play for a team that he thinks is a Super Bowl caliber team like the Minnesota Vikings? let's say, absolutely. But I think this situation is different. I think he understands that he's got the leverage in terms of their needs. And that really just brings us to where we're at. When you talk to people from Pittsburgh, they really give you the sense that this is all

going to work out. We're fine. You heard Mike Tomlin. I'm not panicked. Who panics in April? Well, teams that want their quarterback, right? Like most teams do. And I appreciate that he's trying to keep his cool on it because, look, he's having the direct

communication with Rogers. and I believe Rogers is telling him, we'll get there, we'll get there. I just think there's going to be a number here that's going to make Aaron happy. And I just don't know if Pittsburgh is there yet. So until we see where this is headed for now, I think Pittsburgh is in a position where they're just going to wait. And ownership knows, and they trust that Mike Tomlin and Omar Khan are going to be able to get this deal done.

Because otherwise, this is going to put Pittsburgh in a really, really bad spot. Yeah. You know, I've had people ask me this, you know, even on the street, like what, They don't understand Minnesota, so they had Darnold and almost re-signed him. They brought in Daniel Jones. They sniffed around with Aaron Rogers. And it's like, okay, Pennix is going to be a starter. Bow Nix, Jaden Daniels, Caleb Williams, Drake May.

All the quarterbacks out of this class are playing. We think Kevin O'Connell's the shrewdest. You know, he's one of these shrewd guys that knows offense. They traded up to get him. And they're like sniffing around at a lot of quarterbacks. I wonder sometimes if Aaron's still looking at the other. at them and waiting for a call? I don't know. What is the deal? Is it that second surgery thing with J.J. McCarthy? It definitely makes you wonder what is going on in Minnesota? Because it doesn't

feel as clear as it needs to be. But I think some of that has to do with the fact that he's a young quarterback coming off a serious injury. They don't know where he stands at exactly when it comes to full speed football. Although Kevin O'Connell and their general manager, have both come out publicly in the league meetings and say that he has checked off every single box. And I've actually felt a swing over the last two weeks, I'd say, in favor of them being all in on JJ than ever before, in terms of their confidence and belief that he can do it. Almost as if they're tethered to him now, which they are because they traded up for him. So this regime, this is their guy.

And this is the guy that they decided to move on from after having Sam Darnold's, won 14 games for them in the building and wanted to be in Minnesota. I think that's where a lot of people don't get. They think that Sam wanted to be the highest pay, you know, get the most money he can get in a contract. He wanted to stay a Viking and I think he would have been willing to take less. Then of course you have Daniel Jones, who essentially could have been the next Sam Donald based on the abilities that I think

Kevin O'Connell in the system could have provided him. He chose to go to indeed knowing that there was probably concerns that Minnesota would want to quickly go back to JJ, whereas he can go to Indy, win the job, and probably be the starter all year, knowing their quarterback situation isn't as up to the standard that they want. So look, I'm with you, Colin, and I've been digging on it for weeks about what is truly happening in Minnesota?

Why does it feel clunky to me? And I think just based on even coming back from the owners, meaning the feeling is we've got to just see what happens in the spring. I think that's where we're going to get the answers about where JJ's at. This team is saying all the right things. Like, let's just talk PR. They are putting it out there. He is our guy, which they should do.

And they have to do. And they have to build his confidence coming off an injury. But they had a chance to get a Super Bowl, winning quarterback, a four-time MVP they moved on from because they believe in J.J. McCarthy. So that's good. That is good for J.J. McCarthy. If this staff believes in him that much,

we'll just see how it plays out in the spring and if he's really as good as they say he is at this point. So there's a lot of talk about, we'll wrap it up with this, Shadur Sanders moving down in the draft. I like him, I don't love him. I think a lot of people feel like that. In your years of covering this league, you do a lot of stuff during the

season and free agency and Mel Kuyper told me years ago, he goes, there's never less honesty than like two weeks before the draft. So like do you have any gems? Maybe it's Shadur or anything else like that. You know, everybody is saying it's not a very good draft. there's a lot of Shadur talk.

In your 10 years covering the league, the last couple of weeks before the draft, is it a perilous time for you? Is it fun? Is it frustrating to people that usually talk, stop talking? What is it like to cover the NFL two to three weeks before the draft? I love it. I love it because everybody loves to talk about everybody else.

So this is where you can really try to get their opinions and thoughts about what other teams are doing and playing out different situations. And you're right. My job is to report the truth. to get accurate intel. So your flags are up and you're pretty protective of certain things. And it tests your relationships.

I had a situation last draft where I thought someone that was, someone I've known for 18 years was sharing Intel with me and they went in the complete different direction. And when I followed up afterwards, I was like, hey, we talked so much about what you were doing. You were not doing that. And he was like, I couldn't. couldn't do it. So to Mel's point, it is really hard sometimes. And you have to go with your

gut and your instincts. Fortunately, I never reported what that guy told me. But look, it's hard. You have to figure it out, but you also have to have common sense. You know, one of the best lessons I ever learned from Mike Silver, he said it to me a few weeks ago. What we see is what they see. There's no hidden gem. There's no special goggle the GM and the head coach has on or special glasses that they can see stuff we can. What we know they know. Maybe they know a little bit more behind the scenes on these guys. But when it comes down to it, it always just makes sense. So when you talk about Shador standards and, you know, is his value, is he dropping?

Well, the quarterback class isn't that great. And we've got to see what Cleveland is going to do. Do they have a deal with Atlanta, perhaps, to see if they can get her cousins. If they do, they'll probably pass on Shador. Or do they keep Shador? Are they willing to trade out? I think there's a lot of scenarios and it's all very fluid. So I think if you're willing to just go with how it's flowing and not be set in stone on everything, then it's a lot more fun.

Otherwise, you drive yourself crazy. Diana Rusini, the Athletic Senior NFL Insider, thanks, as always, coming on our show. Thanks. You bet. Yeah, it can be a little bit of a perilous time because you can get in trouble. I had the great honor several years ago to hang out in the Chargers draft room. It's one of those, there's only the only thing I haven't done, as a sportscaster, is go to a Kentucky Derby,

and it's always been a time thing. I just can't, I never can't quite, I'm always vacationing or doing something, so I haven't done a Kentucky Derby, but one of the things I wanted to do, and I hope to do it again, is hang out in a draft room. I did it for the Chargers,

and it is fascinating to be in there. At one point, I was texting, Anne or something. It was like, hey, you can't have your cell phone in here, but it's interesting because everybody's got a board, and then they don't let you see the board on TV, but then they have several players, that they have like red check marks, they have dots or check marks.

The red guys are the character guys. Maybe, you know, the black check marks are injury stuff. Like, you'll see five or six character guys that are off the board. Like, we're not drafting them, but they want to keep track of them. Or we're not drafting them injury. I can remember one specifically the Chargers had off their draft board that the Seahawks drafted and he didn't end up doing much. They had injury concerns and sure enough, he got injured.

I can remember another player that drafts, that Rams drafted that other players, other teams were deeply concerned about because of injuries. That player's been good, but that player is constantly hurt. So it was a Pac-12 player. So it's the draft is, I love it. Now, I do think pro days are completely overrated. I think if you get three or four years of college tape from, you know, the Big Ten, the SEC, you've got a pretty, they're going up against NFL dudes. But you've got a pretty good, Kate. Now, I do think senior bulls help.

And, you know, occasional interviews can be meaningful. Pro Days are a bunch of nonsense. Everybody looks good at Pro Days. Zach Wilson Blue, everybody on Pro Days. I think if you start putting too much, I mean, I wouldn't even give 5% of the Pro Day. I would give, to me, 80% of draft is your film. Is playing in real games. And then I would say 15 to 20% is like a senior bowl,

where you get to see guys in person, they compete against other NFL people. I think the senior bowl has real implications. And maybe 1%, 2% to the combine, no percent. I mean, who's ever, I'm just trying to think off my head. How many people have you ever heard,

listen, man, he was a Hammondegger. He was a six-rounder. But he went to the second round pro day. Now, I think Zach Wilson was part of that COVID quarterback class where everybody missed on everybody. And that was because guys just didn't play. It was Trey Lance didn't have any big games. I mean, Zach Wilson played like Utah twice. I almost throw the COVID class out.

That was the one year at Michigan, Harbaugh's team was bad. Belichick just refused to take it seriously that season. So the COVID class, I kind of just take that out. The country was, I mean, literally we couldn't go to games. Do you remember the Zach Wilson pro day? I mean, he was making unbelievable. It looked like some Mahomes throws. I'm not kidding.

That's why the nickname Mormon Mahomes kind of sprung up. He was just flinging it effortlessly like 60, 70 yards. And you're like, who is this guy? Why didn't I see him all season? And then he got under center during a game. And you're like, oh, that's why. Yeah. It's, I think I know, I saw Daniel Jeremiah had this.

I think they're like seven to eight players I love. Abdul Carter I love. Travis Hunter Genties really good I think Cam Ward's I don't love him but he's special Tyler Warren I think Will Johnson

the corner and Mason Graham Okay A war on the tight end I think is outstanding for Penn State I don't think there's a great left tackle I don't think there's a great center I'll tell you the kid

The Williams the linebacker The most underrated player in the draft of me Is the linebacker Is it Jihad Williams Yeah, I think he is by far and away the best linebacker. He's a freak athletic. His footage is great. I think he is going to end up going like 14th or 15th and be...

It reminds me when Patrick Willis went 11th in the draft to the San Francisco 49ers. And I remember before the draft watching, I worked at the other place and I'm like, this dude is chasing down SEC running backs. This kid, I think that linebacker for Bama is going to end up being a starter and a total playmaker in the NFL, but I think everybody else has slotted right. I only think there's about seven or eight guys. I like the receiver T-MAC from Arizona. I think he, again, you get him to the right quarterback. He'll be an impact guy day one. So do you remember a couple years ago, we were ahead of everybody. We beat everybody to the market on this running back shift in the NFL. The running back

for back. I see some people are trying to make linebackers are back now. They're trying to make that a thing. I don't know if you've seen it this offseason. People are pulling clips. And I just some reluctant. The Alabama linebacker looks very good. I've seen some comparisons. Daniel Jeremiah loves him. I just don't know about a linebacker at 14, Colin. I mean, I think when you could get the kid, who was the linebacker the Eagles got, who was

incredible in free ages. They stole him from the Saints. Zach Bond. He was an all pro, awesome. But he was getting paid pennies. You got him for nothing. And so taking someone at 14 at linebacker, which is maybe the weakest position of any starting group in the league. Offensive

line matters. You need skill position. quarterback, linebackers are kind of like, eh. Well, it's interesting, you say that. So as the running game re-emerges, couldn't you argue linebackers will re-emerge alongside? So, you know, the NFL is, you know, baseball is very analytically driven. And basketball now is.

Football's less so. So there's certain truths in pro football that don't exist in other sports. I mean, we used to think in baseball, like, the strikeout was terrible. And now it's absolutely understood. The strikeout's fine. The ground ball with men on base is the death penalty, right? So there are certain things.

This is why when the young media, a lot of young media was buying into this, oh, woe is me, the running backs are not being treated fairly. My take is at its core, football is one thing for strong, physically imposing men. Like in the NBA, length. matters. It mattered in the 70s. It mattered during Michael Jordan's era. Long players matter. You don't have to have centers, but you've got to have length on the floor. Wingspan and length matter. Somebody told me years ago, a general manager said, Scotty, he goes, that Bull's defense with Phil Jackson was so long. Ron Harper was long. Rodman was long. Jordan was long. Pippin was long.

Coo Coach was long. He said they would tip a half dozen passes throughout the course of a game that other teams wouldn't and if they got two turnovers that gave Michael Jordan two possessions Michael made at least one of those shots he goes you'd be amazed how many playoff games

fill in the Bulls won by a bucket. And it's like length matters in the NBA. The NFL will always the rest of our lives be about tough physical men imposing their will. So you can make it wide receivers. No, it's not. Also in the NFL, this has been true for years. There has never been a warm weather dynasty.

Niners? That's not, they're not, they're, that's not warm. I'm talking, L.A., Arizona, Florida. Florida, now Atlanta, go find me the dome or like Dan Marino, second year Super Bowl, never got back, and had a great coach. And my take is when you play. Play in warm weather, it's easier. And tough weather creates tough people.

And so who's dominated the NFL forever? Kansas City, Green Bay, Baltimore, New England, Philadelphia, Seattle at a run. Why is that? It's not bad. I mean, go back to the 70s. It's cold weather. Buffalo went to what?

I mean, right now, go look at the NFL. All the best teams are cold weather teams. All of them. The warm weather teams are. are, I mean, Tampa's got a really solid quarterback and a great GM and good players. Oh, Cowboys in the 90s, there's one. Yeah. You got to go back 30 years.

By the way, they get, I went to a Super Bowl in Dallas. That's right. It was hail storms. So like Tennessee, Nashville to me feels a little bit warm weather. The Titans can't get out of their own way. I just, this is one of my belief. If you look at the NFL, it is overwhelmingly, it is overwhelmingly. Crappy winter weather creates tougher culture.

tougher environments, tougher men, and tougher football teams. Okay, but I'm thinking of the NFL map, and there's probably way more cold weather cities than warm. There are. But I mean, Carolina is, how about the, right now you could argue, the two worst divisions in the NFL are AFZ South and NFC South, the warm weather divisions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, no, I mean, it's just come to you?

No, I've thought about that forever, just like, I know because I spend a lot of time in Chicago. Yeah. And you're shoveling the driveway, and you're going for your morning. walking, it's 43 degrees, and you got more clothes on, and it's harder, and it creates tougher, harder people. Yeah. I mean, when I was a kid growing up, the Big East Basketball. Now, a lot of you guys don't remember this year, 20 or early 30s.

Big East basketball was a fist fight every night. I mean, it was John Thompson and Louis Carnacek at PJ Carlisimo. Everybody, all those teams were, and by the way, if you go look at Yukons, basketball dynasty, Jim Calhoun to Hurley. What is their overwhelming brand? Tough, physical. Coaches bark. You deal with it.

Those are loud, extremely intense coaches. They all play defense. There's never been a Baltimore team that was soft. Is this feeding the soft narrative about soft L.A. players west of the Mississippi. Everybody's just weak. Well, I don't know. I just, I mean, if you go, there's never been a Pistons team that was great that didn't like the rumble. Yeah, it's California cool, not California tough, you know?

That's right. This is, that's impressive stuff, Gallaud. By the way, you have gotten softer since you got here. No doubt about it. You are smoothies and volleyball games. Yeah, I'm wearing winter hats to walk my dog at 50 degrees. I'm not kidding. That's real.

One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the I-Hart Radio app. heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Let's get started with a great night in sports. Otani goes yard. And then how about Anthony Davis of the Mavericks? Yeah. Game winner went for 34 and 15. There it is.

The drive and the floater. Really impressive stuff from AD. His best performance since he became a Mav. I don't know. They look good. I'll say Gafford is back. Lively's back. Yep.

But no Kyrie, Colin. Their back court is like Spencer Dinwiddie. All I'm going to say is it is easy to sell the farm, but this roster in terms of size is the best in the league. They've got more, they've got a center rotation that is excellent. I know everybody doesn't like the Luca thing, and it's going to hurt because the Lakers are going to have a nice playoff run. It's going to hurt this year. Check back next year. Dallas is going to be a real team.

We'll see. We'll see how Kyrie Irving bounces back. It's been a, let's go to OKC, Colin, the Oklahoma City Thunder. Man, this team right now, they're on fire. They finish the season going 29 and 1 against the East. The best interconference record in NBA history. The only time OKC lost to a team in the East was January 8th against Cleveland. Listen, I've been dubious, obviously, of OKC.

I want to see it in the playoffs. They steamrolled the East, man. I mean, they look good last night. Now, no Cunningham, you know, I don't know. Are you a believer in OKC? Yeah, I mean, they're going to win playoff series. I think my belief is they're going to be in the... Well, I would hope is the number one seed with an amazing point of...

Yeah, I think they're going to get to the Western Conference Playoff Finals. They're in the Western... To me, the three things I believe strongly in. Celtics, Cabs, Eastern Conference Final. Okay. OKC Western Conference Final. Those are the things I feel strongly about. Facing.

Huh? Who were they facing? Don't feel strongly about that. I mean, I think if Denver played the Lakers or the Warriors, I think I would take Denver. Don't bet against Luca. That's a thing I've learned not to do. He is too good at the playoffs when it matters most. Remember, they took down OKC last year without a home court advantage.

Do you want to say any other nice things about SGA? Because, you know, the 18 Thunder fans are watching. And we haven't glazed them sufficiently this season. Well, he's going to win MVP. I get it. I think Yokic is the better player, SGA. Abe. It does matter what your team's doing. And when you have a dominant, if you win 70 games, you're going to get, sorry, you're going to get, I mean, 70 and 82, say it out loud.

What was Jordan's best team? 72, I believe. They want 72, and then the Warriors topped them with 73. Yeah. I mean, it's just, you're talking. You get 70 wins. And also, they have great depth and they play great defense. So in the NBA, if you have a seven-game series, you're not getting knocked. Nobody's beating this team four times in two weeks in the first two rounds. Not happening.

Final story, Colin. Let's go to the Cincinnati Bungles. So we know they loaded up on Burrow, Chason Higgins. We get that. However, defensive end Trey Hendrickson, who led the league in Sacks, he hasn't gotten a deal. He wants a new contract. Bengals executive VP Katie Blackburn said, I think he should be happy at certain rates that maybe he doesn't think he'd be happy at.

I think some of it is on him to be happy at some point. Oh. What? How is this lady? Why is she talking to the media? Hendrickson calls her comments disappointing. Yeah, I would say so. You just need to be happy with what we're offering.

Because we're the Cincinnati Bengals. Yeah. Really? It's kind of embarrassing. Well, this is an organization that I just kind of roll my eyes at. I feel like Joe Burrell's trapped. I really do. How do we get him out of there?

How do we get him to the Jets? I don't think there's anything you can do I think it just happens I think sometimes fans get trapped with a bad owner and I think Burroughs just going to have to live with this The Bengals messaging around all of this has been awful all offseason Look how small their scouting staff is to the Eagles

And now you can pay T. Higgins, Jamar and Burrow and Henrickson but you have to hit on five draft picks annually. Well Philadelphia does. The Rams do two rich owners who spend money Like that's where the draft That's why Dallas giving up draft picks is weird

Like, what are you doing giving up fourth and fifth round draft picks for backups? Like, Joe Milton's not going to start. He can't. You just pay DAC a fortune. Mingo, Trey Lance, like, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, the scouting, everybody misses on draft picks. Right.

But the really good organizations find a lot of gems in the fourth, fifth, and six rounds. And you need them when you're paying four guys top of the market. Everything, yeah. J-Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herbline news. So much official.

Cooper Flagg, Duke obviously playing this weekend for the right to advance and get to the national championship game. So the comps are pretty interesting coming out for Cooper Flagg. Plus, old J-Mack tried to get me in the ribs earlier on the shade thrown at Lamar Jackson. Some interesting numbers I found next in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis.

And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the I Heart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to be. to have the time to discuss.

And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio

on the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Kavino and Rich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a podcast. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. Yeah, she's an outsider. win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The battle for the inaugural college basketball crown continues tonight with the second round of the quarterfinals, starting with Cincinnati taking on UCF, followed by Villanova USC. It all starts at 630 Eastern only on FS1. So we talked about Cooper Flagg, and I'd said about a month ago, he looks like Jason Tatum to me, but a better defensive Jason Tatum. He'll be better earlier than Jason Tatum. I think he's a little nasty, a little better finisher and a little, he's got a little chip on his shoulder, and I think he's a better defender than Jason was coming into the NBA. So ESPN went out and talked to several NBA executives and scouts who anonymously made comps for him.

A couple I don't see, a couple I really see. So the first one, they say his ceiling is Kauai Leonard. Very good defensive player. I think Cooper Flag will develop into a better outside shooter than Kauai Leonard was. But Kauai Leonard is his ceiling. His floor comp is Lamar Odom. That I don't see. Lamar's talented, but a little flaky.

I don't know. I think he, Lamar was a really good ball handler for his size. I just think people, basketball people love Lamar Odom. You know, 6'10 could handle the ball, get up and down the floor. I think that's the floor. And Lamar had a nice career. In his prime comp, this is the one I see, is Jason Tatum. Both Duke, smart guys had a little to work on, do everything well, maybe not anything great, but everything very, very well.

And his second star comp is Scotty Pippen. Now, I think he's a better offensive player than Scotty Pippen. But I think the Jason Tatum, Scotty Pippen, those two I absolutely get. Lamar not so much. Kauai, maybe a little bit. Kauai is a very quirky all-time player. But there you go. Chris Brouss starred on our show.

He and I share the opinion. The guy's going to be special day one. You said there's really no weakness when you look at his game. He can bring the ball up court like a point guard. You can run the offense through him. He can pass. He can shoot in the mid-range of three post-up game. He can drive and finish.

He can lead the break. Any defense, but I don't really want to see him in Washington or Charlotte. I hate to say it, but that's just the truth, right? Chicago, when you look at what Kobe White is doing, or, of course, San Antonio, it'd be an immediate big three with Deerrin Fox and Wimbanyama and flags. So I think this is coming at a good time for the NBA because baseball is surging in popularity,

the WNBA because of Caitlin Clark is surging in popularity. The college football with a playoff in December is going to start surging in interest on the NFL as king, and we got a World Cup coming up next summer. So the NBA has kind of, I mean, last night, Denver sat all of its starters

because they played a two-over-time game the night before. I get it. But the NBA could use, a big brand domestic product ready to come in and play. So I think if he goes to a Philadelphia or a Chicago or San Antonio with Wembe, and I like the Utah fit just because I think Danny Aange, Kessler, I think there'll be, I think Utah's a little couple years behind OKC, but they have a chance to be really good accumulating draft picks.

I think Utah fits pretty well. But boy, if he goes to Carolina or New Orleans, you know, it's, I mean, I've said before, even as inconsistent as Zion has been, if Zion would have gone to Chicago, Golden State, or New York, it would have felt different. And the NBA, and this is just the

reality of it, because you know, you can spot basketball talent early, and so teams start tanking for Wemby three years ago, or at least two years ago, and that's the unsolvable NBA prop. People will always tank because they can see three years out the

stars coming. We don't see that in football. Nobody saw Mahomes three years earlier, Josh Allen. It doesn't work that way. So it's the opposite in football where a guy has a great senior year and you're like, oh, finally he got, you know, he had a growth spurt. But some of that is fools gold. Kenny Pickett at Pittsburgh had one good year. They drafted him.

That's right. Hey, let me quickly ask you about Charlotte. Let's say Charlotte wins the lottery. They have lamello ball. And Colin, I know you pay attention to the NBA. Lamello Ball is one of the 10 most popular players in the league. Young kids love him. shoe sales, jersey sales, his style.

But you watch him. He doesn't appear to be a serious basketball player. It's like a lot of silly shots and showboating. If I get Cooper Flag with the number one pick, I'm looking to trade LaBello Ball. I would move off of him and just say, you know what? I don't want that kind of player around my new franchise guy. And Carolina is NASCAR and college basketball country, so it's never going to be an NBA hotbed. It's just not.

There's certain things that are true is that we're always going to care more about the Lakers and Celtics. Well, when they had Alonzo Morning and Larry Johnson, they were, I mean, this was like 30 years ago. They were huge for five minutes on those two butted heads. But it can be NBA. They love their college basketball. So you would essentially have a Duke kid going to Charlotte. What I'm saying is there are certain markets in the country. College football will always matter in Ohio.

Always. It's just ingrained. Alabama will always be college football first. Kentucky will always be college basketball. basketball first. Yeah. And it's just, I mean, you, Connecticut, they love men's and women's college sports,

and they love their baseball. And I, so I just think there are places that, I mean, I mean, like prime example, Otani with the Angels, O'Tonnie with the Dodgers. Same weather, same freeway, it's different. Dodger baseball will always be bigger. I mean, the match can have success.

It is a Yankee city. It's just the way it is. Yeah, like what happens if Magic Johnson doesn't go to the Laker? and goes to some random small, like, is he magic Johnson? No, he's Irvin Johnson. There you go. And he and his buddy called him magic, but he was Irvin Johnson. He became magic.

I mean, the magic was the exclamation point of the magic was showtime. Yes. So J-Mack earlier, he loves doing this, just unveils a graphic. I don't know where it came from. So he does this like once a week. It's like, I have hands off, not called. And he throws this out there and then sheepishly says, I don't know where it came from. Sorry radio audience, but it was C. Lamar Jackson.

These are quarterbacks with multiple playoff wins, seasons with multiple playoff wins. And yes, Brady 11, Mahalm, 6, Montana 5, Peyton 5, Brett, the Lamar zero. So he just throws this heater on the hands to me. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me digest it. Okay, here we go. Well, then I found. And I don't know where this one came from either.

I had nothing to do with this one. Here's playoff wins after seven seasons in the NFL, which is about 40% of a quarterback career. Lamar has three, Stafford Nunn, Breeze 1, Peyton Manning 3, Marino 3. Meaning for a lot of quarterbacks who become like legendary, it's a little bumpy early. you ended up at a team that needed a star quarterback. And, you know, it's not always Mahomes lands with Andy Reed and Brett Veach and Travis Kelsey. It is bumpy for a lot of people forget. You know, last week I caught you off guard when I said,

hey, everybody, do you realize Michael Jordan after hitting the shot in college to win the title, played two more years at Carolina in college, and got beat one year by in-state rival NC State? Okay, so you just forget, Peyton Manning had a reputation for years as a teeth clencher who got tight in big games. Now, then Indy late beat Tom in a playoff game. Then he goes to Denver and Tom. Peyton Manning's first 10 years was this guy's unbelievable, but he doesn't quite play as well in playoff games. Dan Marino, or John Elway, the group, again, if you're 20, you don't remember this.

John Elway, I believe it was his first three Super Bowls, got housed. It was three of the worst Super Bowl losses in the Super Bowl history. And then all of a sudden he got a run game and he got the right coach. And then he wins his Super Bowl MVP last day in the league. And now he's a legend. So Jeter lands with the Kansas City Royals. You know what he is? That kid Jeter.

But Jeter has nobody's hitting behind him. They don't have a payroll for pitchers because they have to pay Jeter, and he makes the playoffs three times, not every single year, on the stage where he's number two, he's a legend. So we just don't have any patience now. We don't allow young quarterbacks to sort of, you know. Well, we live in the now. You know, Lamar has another bad playoff game, and we analyze it heavily,

except there's 24-hour news, there's shows like this, there's social media, and then the bombing just doesn't stop on Lamar. for days because he lost another playoff game. That didn't happen when Peyton. I think Peyton lost his first four or five playoff games. Jets crushed him in one of like 4110, 410, 410, whatever it was. And it's like, you know, it's barely a blip because guess what? There was no social media to amplify the failure.

Social media is, you know, I profited handsomely. I'm sure you have as well. But there's also a lot of problems. Michael Jordan didn't play with social media. It just nobody knows that he was in college three years and two of them didn't do anything in the tournament. We lost to Donald Royal in the Orlando Magic in the playoffs one. It just disappeared into the ether. Hour three in a Thursday.

Hey, next. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. tired and sick listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your

podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumor me with robert smigle and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letterman help make you funnier this week my guest s n l's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter where does your group perform we do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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