The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - Top picks from the NFL draft

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Thoughts on Eli Manning trying to be a minor honor and how bad the Giants have been recently Greg Cosell from NFL Films joins the show to breakdown the top picks from the NFL draft and how they'll fit with their new teamsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It is hour two. We are live in Chicago. It's the herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. J-MAC. J-Mack's got, you know, my wife even pointed this out yesterday.

J-MAC's got the floral shirts. You've got the big, robust, dynamic shirts. You know, I'm doing a professional business look over here, and one of us could go out in shirt we're wearing. So credit to you. Anne's like Spoocher or a wardrobe. Jay Max's like bringing the A game on the wardrobe. Victoria and Company do a great job. Hey, I was talking with a couple of producers

during the break. Who wins in a battle? 100 adult males or one gorilla? Yeah, I've heard that thing. It's fascinating. No real strong opinion. Apparently it's taken over the internet. Yes. So come on. Get off the fence, big guy. Where you got? At one time?

Yeah. I probably take the adults. Probably. I mean, again, this is something I haven't spent one second on. I would hope show prep would take precedence over this. Okay. So we'll get to Greg CoSell in a couple of minutes. Eli Manning is putting a bid together for a minority interest in the Giants. So I know Eli, I really like this idea.

Since Eli Manning moved out of his prime, the New York Giants have been, they've made so many bad decisions. Like, I like Brian Dayball. Finally, they have a coach I like, and he better winner. He's gone by Thanksgiving. But they've made so many bad decisions. Head coaches, quarterbacks, general managers. That's upstairs stuff.

Ask yourself this. When's the last time the Hunt family with the chiefs butchered a free agent quarterback signing or missed on a first-round quarterback signing draft? It just doesn't happen very often. Since 2017, the Giants are last in wins and 31st in point differential and points per game and sack differential. It's a bad franchise. That's upstairs. Stop blaming the coaches.

Stop blaming the players. That's upstairs. Like, if you look at consistently, it's not a coincidence that Washington ran out the worst owner in the league and tripled their win total. It's not just Jaden Daniels. Jaden doesn't do it without the right coordinator, the right general manager, the right culture. Jaden would have not have done that with the previous group. They just kept getting in their way. And I'll say this, you can trust Eli.

And I know, I'll give you an example of why I like the Manning family. Arch Manning goes to Texas. So Texas is a massive football brand, like Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Texas big. Arch Manning doesn't get a start. first year, second year. And by the way, I think he's better than Quinn Ewers. I think if he would have been in the draft this year, without starting in college,

somebody would have taken him in the second round. I really believed that this quarterback draft. Somebody would have taken Arch Manning second and said, we're going to go with jeans. Archie was good, Eli was good, Peyton, we're just going to go with jeans. And yet, he didn't transfer. He's been a team player.

It's so manning. Like dignity, thoughtful, class. New York Giants, they got an upstairs problem. I said the Chicago Bears, finally with Ben Johnson, like controlling the draft, Chicago for years, Detroit before Dan Campbell and their new GM and executive suite, Detroit had an upstairs problem. They didn't have a quarterback problem. Best effort was great.

So we always look in this sport whenever a team loses, oh, that's the coach. No, Washington had an upstairs problem. The Giants do. That doesn't mean the Maras are totally inept, but they need a fresh set of eyes and ears, and the Mannings, they make really good decisions. Football decisions, parenting decisions, business decisions, they just make really good decisions. With that 45 years, NFL films, Greg Co-Cell is joining us. So let's just talk football.

Forget all the other nonsense. Great. If Pittsburgh, so the Rams, my understanding, didn't really, should do a lot of. was not on their board as a starter. They liked Jackson Dart. New York Giants liked Jackson Dart over Shadur. There's nothing wrong with that. I had a friend of mine

who's a former GM. He liked Jackson Dart a lot. Not as much as Cam Ward, but he liked him more than Shadour. He liked him a lot. And I think everybody thinks Cam was the best quarterback in a week class. Pittsburgh Steelers, according to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, a reporter there, were not in the starting quarterback

hunt. They looked at next year. I'm told the Rams looked at next year. The Browns trading down early told you, next year's class. We'll go get backups this year. So if I was a GM and I wasn't into Shadur's playing, what on film did you watch that you believe Greg could turn a general manager off and just not see him as an elite quarterback prospect? Well, I think that that I think relates to what the league has become, Colin, for quality starting quarterbacks. We're talking about guys that would top five quarterbacks in the league because if you're drafting Sanders high, that's what you're expecting him to be, a top five quarterback in the league. So what you're dealing with is a player

who's essentially a pocket quarterback. If he's to become a really good quarterback in the NFL, at his core, he's a pocket player. Now, he's not immobile. It's not as if he's a statue, but at his core, he would have to be successful as a pocket player. And as a pocket quarterback, his traits are good, not great. So where does that kind of player get drafted in the NFL? And what does he become in the NFL? He's a pocket quarterback with good traits. He's a lower-level C.J. Stroud.

C.J. Stroud is essentially a pocket quarterback. Is bigger. He's a better thrower. So C.J. Stroud was drafted second and has done well in his first two years. years. Sanders is a similar style quarterback in terms of his approach to the way in which he plays, but he's not as gifted. He's smaller and doesn't throw it as well. So where does that player get drafted? That's why he was all over the board just as a player, putting everything else aside. I had coaches tell me that they thought he was a backup. I had coaches tell me he was a first-round pick. I had coaches tell me he's a third-round pick. So he was all over the board because his

traits are not quite at the level where it's unanimous or obvious as to what he projects to be at the NFL level. So again, let's keep it to football. If you were to draft Jackson Dart over him, because I know two people that prefer Jackson Dart. What did you see about Jackson Dart that a GM would go, oh, I like that. That's better than Shadour. Well, that gets into the same question. I think you have the mobility factor. I think Jackson Dart, while he's not explosive and dynamic, Jackson Dart, his legs are a factor. So now you get into the fact that he can make plays on third down with his legs and that changes the way defenses have to play. See, the thing is you have to think about now the NFL. We're not just doing this in a vacuum. We're projecting players, and you see him right here.

We're projecting players to play in the NFL and what that means. So the fact that he can beat you with his legs means that that changes at times in critical down and distant situations the way defenses have to play. His arm is probably as good or maybe even a little better than Sanders, and he has that mobility. And that's a key, key factor. So Jackson Dart could easily be seen, and he was by some teams, just the football part, as a better prospect than Chudor Sanders. So it's interesting. I thought the Bears, because the last two years in free agents, I know, I said, Greg, they're going to go defense. They didn't. They went off again. I mean, last year they did it draft and free agency. This year they did it, free agency

and draft. So Ben Johnson's saying, listen, I'm going to clean up my side of the ball. We'll get the defense later. So they go Colston Loveland, Luther Burden, who's a really, could be a very interesting player, and Ozzie Chappilo, who Matt Hasselbeck, by the way, likes. What did you make of those first three picks and how they'll help Caleb Williams? Well, they're going to play a lot of 12 personnel. You know, a lot of people thought they'd take Tyler Warren, but Tyler Warren is a redundancy for them, because Cole commits stylistically is the same kind of player.

We could say Warren's better, but stylistically, in the context of their offense, they're the same player. So they went with the more athletic, the tight end in Loveland, who gives them more. So they'll play with 12 personnel at times, and they'll be really difficult. And then Luther Burden, I mean, I loved Luther Burden's tape.

And I think Luther Burton in the context of a Ben Johnson offense, and I'm not going to sit here and say he's going to do exactly what Ammanra St. Brown did because you never know. But I think that he stylistically fits that role in a Ben Johnson offense. And I think, you know, with Byrd now, they can line up in 12 personnel with two tight ends. They can line up in 11 personnel with a Dunezay Moore and Burden. I mean, this is a really, really good offense in terms of the skill players. And Tripillo didn't surprise me at all. that he went where he did. I studied his tape. He's a really good player. He played right tackle at BC. They're going to have to make a decision as to whom becomes the left tackle, whether they can

move Tripolo there, who's played that in college, or Darnell Wright, who's been their right tackle. But Tripillo is a really, really good prospect. So I love what they did on the offensive side of the ball. So it was pretty obvious. There were certain teams, and I think the Chargers are one, where I had had dinner with their offensive coordinator a couple of days a week before the draft, actually, and he said, listen, we have a really good football team. We need a little bit more juice on offense. Well, they went and got it with Trey Harris and Hampton. Let's talk about the Chargers.

Let's talk about Hampton the running back in Trey Harris. What does that provide that they didn't have last year? Well, I love Marion Hampton. I loved his tape. I didn't think there was much of a difference at all between Hampton and Gentie. To me, Hampton just looked like a feature foundation back on tape. Some people thought, and I could see that, that there were similarities to Jonathan Taylor stylistically.

And he is clearly the kind of back that you could give the ball 20 times a game to. We know it's Greg Roman. We know they want to run the football. You know, we know that's the way they play. That's foundationally how they want to start their offense. So now you get the play-action pass game off of that. And last year they had pretty good success at times with the play-action pass game. so now they can do more of it.

Harris is an intriguing guy. I watched him last summer, Colin, from 2023, when he had a big year. This year he got hurt after seven games. I saw every game, every snap. I kept going back and forth on him. I just wasn't sure if he was a vertical dimension in the league. He's long and he has stride length,

but he didn't run real well, and I'm just really curious as to what he will be. I'm a little uncertain about him, but I know a lot of people liked him. I just kept going back and forth in my mind. I'm very curious to see what he becomes in the National Football League. But the Hampton pick, I absolutely love that. So I was told that Seattle wants to play Jalen Milro in six or seven plays a game.

Is that they just think he's too athletic not to get on the field. And, I mean, there were times with Lamar Jackson. You watched him his first year. You're like, is he the best athlete on either team? I mean, Michael Vic had that component. Milrow is a sensational athlete. Yeah. We know he can be a bit mechanical.

But what does he do from your film study that you think immediately translates to production in the NFL now? Well, I think one of the things that's become really big in this league, and you see it with the Eagles, you certainly see it with Lamar, is the importance of the quarterback run game, the design quarterback runs game in the red zone. And I think that's where Milro can be a factor. Don't forget that McDonald's spent a year or so with Baltimore, so he knows all about the quarterback run game and the design of it and how it can really break down and attack defenses. And that's where I think Milro can become a factor. But I actually really like Seattle's draft as a whole call. Same here. They trade it up to get Nick Eminwari.

And I'm sure all of us immediately thought that's Kyle Hamilton and the Mike McDonald defense because they're stylistically similar players. So their defense, and maybe people are sleeping on it, but what they've done defensively this offseason and what they've built defensively, they could be one of the best defensive teams in the NFL this year. Yeah. No, he was, he was, the safety from South Carolina, I was told this by a couple people.

He's kind of a can't miss. He's just so rugby and so athletic. There are very few guys that are can't miss, and you'd think, oh, he'd go in the first round, but safety's a different position. But he kind of feels like I can't miss in the NFL. So I want to go back to Travis Hunter. So you looked at him as a corner and you look at him as a receiver. If I said to you, Greg, he ended up being a pro bowler at one position.

If you had to guess based on your film story, there was what, he was good at both, but one of him he becomes a pro bowler. Which side would you predict? I mean, he's, you know, I think that early on he would have a better chance of being a pro bowler as a receiver than as a corner. Interesting. Because I think as a corner, we know about the physical traits, but you watch his tape, and as a corner, he doesn't really play with any technique because he's never had to. And I think in the NFL, he'll have to. But I think the larger question with Travis Hunter, and again, I don't listen to what everybody says,

Colin, so I don't know if this has been talked about. But I think the larger issue is not whether he can play 150. 15 or 120 snaps a game. Maybe he's just that freak that can, but the issue is preparation during the week. He can't be in the offensive and the defensive meetings at the same time. And you know how coaches, how anal coaches are about their meetings and their details and their nuance. And, you know, you just can't be in both meetings. There's not enough hours in the day. So I'm very curious to see how that works, because you can't be part of both sides of the ball in all the detail that's required.

Yeah. Finally, when you looked at Ashton Gentie's tape, I imagine the Oregon game, the Oregon game is one that you really zoned in on because they have NFL players everywhere. It is harder to make a guess here playing smaller schools. What is the one, the first time you looked at Ashton, Jenny, he was now a raider. The first time you looked at his tape and went, okay, it's Boise State, this is real. This is a real. This is a real. difference maker. Was there something that pop for you, a tendency or a trait that you had seen before and went, yeah, that's McCaffrey or that's whoever? Well, contact balance, because you're going to get hit in the NFL. You've got to run inside

between the tackles. You can't be a great back in the NFL by just running on the perimeter. So he has this unique ability to absorb hits and keep going without really losing any of his momentum. And that's a rare trait. So to me, his best trait, is contact balance. And that's something that is absolutely essential. Now he's got other traits as well. I don't want to make it seem like that's his only trait. Obviously, he's a great, great prospect.

But I think the contact balance part is really, really special. By the way, I want to add this. I watch virtually every pick. And I know I didn't have a lot of stars. But it's hard to convince me there weren't a lot of good players. When Cody Simon and Ohio State linebacker went in the force, I thought he was a really good player. I mean, he was the heart and soul of that defense.

And Damien Martinez, who I watched play for a time. Greg, I can't believe he's a seventh round running back. You didn't get it either. Yeah. No, that to me, and again, all I can tell you is how I evaluate the players. I'm not one who speaks about whether teams did a good job or bad job, because they've got 30 people doing this, and these guys work really hard. But I really like Damien Martinez.

I watched him last summer when he was at Oregon State. I watched him this year at the University of Miami. I think this guy in the right system could actually be a feature back. And to be honest with you, and we'll see how it plays out. We'll see how it plays out in camp. But I personally think he's a better runner. Now, again, there may be other elements here, but he's a better runner than Zach Charbonnet. And, you know, Zach Charbonnet right now is the number two back in Seattle.

So we'll see how it plays out through OTA's mini camp and training camp. but I really like Damien Martinez. I was really surprised he went in the seventh round. Yeah. No, that jumped out to me. I said, okay, you can tell me this isn't a great draft. That is an NFL. You think he's a featureback.

All I know is that guy, I watched him in college. He was five yards of carry. Run over people, run past him, he was five yards of carry. And power translates, you know, that's the thing. There's a lot of great athletes in the NFL, as we know, Colin. But power is one thing at all positions that normally transatlons. late, and he's a powerful runner. Greg Kossel,

45 years, NFL films. Good seeing you again. Smart stuff as always, Greg. Thanks, Colin. Really appreciate it. You bet. How about that, Jay Mack? The one guy in the draft, I went, what? How was he a seventh round player? You know, Jay Mack, I may bail on the show and end up being a scout here in the very near future.

What, area scout in Chicago? Come on, you're going to be going to Big Ten games outdoors in November? Stop it. You're not being no scout, Colin. Hey, I'm taking the train to work. I'm a new guy. That's all I'm going to say. Just the man of the people. I like it.

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We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

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Within probably 10 days, I'd put it. on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, welcome back. Chris Broussard will be joining us last hour. A lot of NBA stuff to talk about. Jason Tatum has officially arrived. By the way, the Lakers play tonight. They're big favorites. I don't know.

I think they'll be inspired because JJ Reddick got kind of beat up by the media. Yeah, we'll see. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

All right, let's get started with Lakers' wolves. Lakers were four to a half-point favorites. It's up to six, Colin. You might be on to something. Let's talk about Anthony Edwards. He had that 43-point performance in game four. A lot of physicality of trash talking. Chris Finch, guest of this show, has not been surprised,

saying, I've been with him long enough to know that doubting him is not a really good strategy. He has a great sense of the moment. Um, Colin, we saw three teams last night have a chance to close it out. Boston did, right? But the Knicks did not have the urgency, right? I'm sure you noticed that Pacers did not have the urgency. They were able to pull it off Lucky Lake. I'm just curious, do you think the wolves closed it out tonight at Crypto?

I don't. I think the Lakers survive. It is interesting, though. We talked about the earlier story when Zach Lowe came out, a respected NBA analyst and said, yeah, like Luke is a bad defensive player. I was thinking, well, he is. He's a bad defense player. He's a bad?

Yeah, he's pretty bad. I mean, teams pick on him. That's a pretty good indicate. Carl Anthony Town teams pick on him. That's the first sign you're not good. It's like a cornerback in the NFL. If a team, a quarterback goes after you, you're the weak corner. So it's interesting.

A year ago, if I would have said, three years ago, if I would have said to you, Jaum or Ant, the league would have taken Jha. If I said a year ago, Luca or Ant, the league would have taken Luca. I bet you half the GMs today watching this series, Ant's defense. I mean, it's been impressive. Yes. I'm telling you, Michael Jordan, when he came into this league, was all offense. And then, I mean, it was a great offensive player, but he was all relentless.

But Michael, over time, became a great basketball. teammate as well. He couldn't win those playoff series for years until Pippin arrives. You start watching Ant. He has now jumped over the Zion John Morant crowd that he was behind. I think you look at Luca. And let's be honest here, Lucas is not in the shape. Ant is. He doesn't defend. And now Ant's giving you the same

high level of offense. If you're asking me who I would take next 10 years, I would take Ant easily. The Luca Slander must stop. Okay. Let's slow down. He was injured and missed like 25 games this year. And he was traded. That being said, on Ant specifically, he's been unstoppable. I saw a crazy stat just now, Colin.

He's had 70 ISO plays in the series. Do you want to know how many times the Lakers have double-teamed Anthony Edwards of those 70 isolations? It's a trick question. Eight. Zero. Zero doubles from JJ Reddick. Now, part of that could be because Randall is 45% from three in the series. He can't miss.

McDaniels is 40%. 32% from people. They're not missing. So you can't double ant, right? Those guys are hitting. You're going to get blown out. Those games in Minnesota were a coin toss games. I hate to say this, because I, you know, I love to think I know everything about basketball. I don't know what Reddit can do here other than, hey man, DFS, Austin Reed, you're on an island with ants. You got to just either let him get two, don't let him get three. Well, the other thing we've seen in these playoffs, historically role players shrink in the postseason, especially on the road. We all love Austin Reeves, but when you watch the Tatum's and the star players in this league,

Jamal Murray, who's always been not an All-Star, but really good, he's rising in big moments. Austin Reeves has had a lot of bad halves, like a lot. And that's one of those things. That's what I say about Brock Pretty. I'm not doubting he's a franchiser. I'm not doubting Austin's the Lakers' third best player. But it does feel like Austin, as the league is allowed, more physicality. It has hurt Austin Reeves game a little bit.

I don't think that's wrong. He did have, I think, five-three's last game and a good look to try the game at the end. The thing about, like, I think Ant is a tougher matchup than SGA. And I know SGA is going to win MVP, but he's not a great three-point shooter. Ant led the league in three-point makes. I mean, I know we call them the free-throw merchant SGA, but Ant to me is a tougher defender. Like, the Lakers don't have any.

Who do you put on them, Colin? LeBron? Yeah, and here's the other thing, is that the T-wolves played in more clutch games, more close games. It's a big benefit. Now, we've talked about this before, is that the Detroit Lions last year

blew, I mean, go back to their first 12 weeks. the year before, go back to the Ravens' first 13 weeks. And then you get into the playoffs and, like, well, time out. It's all situational. Minnesota, how many four-point games was Minnesota in this year? And's been in these games so many times. They're just built for playoff basketball in close games. I got Lakers tonight.

You do as well? Lakers money. I think I would take the six and a half with Minnesota. I think the Lakers survived. That's a lot of points to give up. to a team that doesn't trust their bench. I mean, Lakers, Reddick, say what you want, does not want to play Jackson Hayes

against the team that's already bigger. Well, maybe that's a problem. Coming home, Gabe Vincent shows up. Just give me 10 points, that's it. Let's go to the NFL, Colin. Everybody's waiting for Aaron Rogers decision. Everyone thinks it will be the Steelers. Well, your favorite podcaster.

Ben Ruffisberger has chimed in on the Aaron Rogers situation. Here we go. At some point, though, they need to set a deadline because at some point, Aaron needs to be start learning the offense. I mean, you know, start getting with the guys. So what is that cutoff date? I don't know, only Coach Tomlin and Mr. Rooney and oh, I know that. At some point, you have to say it's what's the best for our team is to just probably move on.

Sure. And that might sound crazy because it's Aaron Rogers. Right. But at some point, like, you start questioning, like, does Aaron really want to play? Well, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette writer, The Steelers were not in this draft looking for a starter. They're looking to next year. So I think they're looking at Aaron.

I mean, this may be uncomfortable for Steelers fans, but are the Steelers just saying, listen, we're not a Super Bowl team. We can be good with Aaron. We're not going to be great. He's a pocket quarterback in his 40s. Is that nobody wants to hear this, but if you're going into a draft and you don't aggressively with Pittsburgh's fairly stacked roster.

If you don't move up to get even, you could have taken like a Jackson dart. You could have, I don't think you could have gotten Cam Ward. It tells you not only the quarterback class wasn't great, but it tells you like, I think we have to be honest about Pittsburgh this year. The, hey, we never have a losing season thing. It just isn't tracking. And I think if they take a step back, get a better draft pick,

you think I'm crazy on this. If the Steelers win eight games this year with Aaron, eight to nine, they're going to be picking 14th. You're not getting Archmanning with that. You're going to have to make a decision on one of your great defensive players. The only way to get, I'll say it again, T.J. Watt is not winning playoff games for you. For the Steelers are going to be too good roster-wise if Aaron plays to be a top 10 team. They're going to be like 15. Well, how do you get to two, three, or four?

It's not just draft it. People want players if you're going to move up in a great quarterback draft class. I guess the counter would be, if you're Mike Tomlin, can you look yourself in the mirror every morning knowing Mason Rudolph as your starting quarterback? I can. You got no shot. None. It's over. It's over.

You're going nowhere. I'm sorry. I can if I've been given assurances by ownership, I'm okay. I will go back. I don't want to tell his full story, but Eric Mangini, you know, Jets guy. Just asking his Brett Farv story with the Jets owner. And I'm sure there's other coaches who have been through this. But don't trust billionaires, Colin.

I'm sure you, as a business owner, you know this. Be careful taking the word from billionaires. These owners are impetuous. They do whatever they want. So I don't know. We'll see. Coming up, final story here. J.J. McCarthy is coming off two knee surgeries this off season.

Not great, but he's been cleared this spring for full participation in the Vikings' offseason program. McCarthy is very confident in himself, as the team is in him. I know I'm ready to start. I appreciate that question, Kevin. Because all the work I put in and just the confidence in my skills and abilities and just being able to do my job and simplify things to the best of my ability every single day and just take it one day at a time, one play at a time. And I have a tremendous coaching staff, a tremendous group of guys around me that I can lean on and they can lean on me. Jay J.

The place is finish. It looks like he's headed to stage coach, maybe, with that hat backwards. Do you have any deep thoughts on the hat backwards? Looks like he needs a haircut. Doesn't look like a buttoned up franchise quarterback to me, but I'm all in on the Vikings just for the record. I'm all in on the Lions winning it and the Bears going to a wild card spot. I think Green Bay and Minnesota will be well coached, but I think the division.

And it's like there's two divisions of football. The AFC West, Broncos, Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers, potentially three playoff teams. The fourth place team will be good. The second division, that's the best division in football. The second best division is the NFC North. Minnesota could win eight games with JJ and be a really good team.

But, I mean, I'm sorry. They're not pulling off last year's win total. That's not happening. They have a much tougher schedule. They're not doing it. That is the easiest team in the league to pull back a win total. total. Okay. Well, we got to find the win total first. I will say in the mock draft that I did for 2026, I just did it in win total order, and the Minnesota Vikings are drafting 15. So the league

thinks they're like a 500 slightly above team. That's right. Vegas, I should say. Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. Jay Mackle, the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lye News. Greg Kossel had good stuff earlier today. Chris Broussard is coming up in the last hour. editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific, on Fox Sports Radio, and of course, the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports. and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together,

I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino Enrich live on Fox Sports Radio in the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific.

And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino-N-Ritch, wherever you get your podcast and of course on social media. That's Kavino and Rich. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay.

Genshin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Earth, continues live from Birmingham, Sunday, 130 Eastern on Fox. So this is interesting. just don't know what the heck to do with the Bill Belichick

Jordan Hudson story 70s, she's mid-20s. Well, this is interesting from the Atlantic, the athletic, excuse me. Jordan Hudson, Belichick's girlfriend, in December of

2024, an email to North Carolina officials. Hudson 24 identified herself as the C-O-O of Belichick production. The chief operating officer. Now, that's a real title.

So she is the C.O. of Belichick Productions. Now, the athletic says, yeah, we're trying to find where she's licensed. It's just an LLC is all you have to get, or S-Corps or LLC. But that's a real title, and that's what I said yesterday. You don't have to like it, but, I mean, she's, this is what she is. Belichick did not need this in pro football. In college, he and Mike Lombardi are not college guys.

In fact, I've said, I've always thought this felt like a one-year thing, and then Bill would kind of like, if he could, jettison college football and go back to the pros. I don't think that's going to happen. I think his market has dried up. I think the NFL's becoming very collaborative league is that you've got to have the GM and the coach get along. Like Bill basically called off his scouting department mid-January last six years in New England. That's why the Patriots were so awful at drafting. That's why Mike Vrable inherited such an awful roster. That's Bill's roster.

I mean, a lot of these great managers, it could be Tony LaRoucena in baseball, the late Bobby Knight and basketball. They don't change with a culture, and they get old really fast. Bob Knight, I don't want to do one and done's. Well, okay. There's no way he would have done NIL. Like, okay. So Belichick, he got old very, very fast. People age differently.

And Bill is one of those guys. We're at the college level. He realizes. I don't want to deal with billionaire. owners. If I'm going to do this college thing, it just can't be me and Mike LaBardi. We have to have a bridge. And so let's have a young bridge. Happens to be his girlfriend. But I mean, I'm just throwing it out there. That's what they're saying. That's what she's saying. The athletics like, well, we can't find the LLC. Well, she is saying and told North Carolina, I'm the CEO of his production company.

All right. So Zach Lowe, very respected NBA guy analyst. And this is something we've talked about on the show. I don't think it's outrageous. Almost everybody's been traded from Wayne Gretzky to Babe Ruth to Joe Montana to Kareem to Wilt. Everybody's, there's just a lot of great players who have been traded. And Kobe Bryant once threatened, I want to be traded, and then they landed Powell, and he stayed with the Lakers and won titles. But it's not trading, Luke, it's that they got nothing back. But for Zach Lowe to come out and say what he said, here is.

a real mark on this. Why do you have to get humiliated at the beginning of every single playoff series before you show the world like, yeah, I can actually put in a little bit more of an effort on defense. I'm just tired of like, I'm going to be embarrassed until our backs are against the wall, and then I'm going to show you that, yeah, I can put up a little bit of a fight. How about you put up a fucking fight in like game one of the second round? And now you're down 3-1 and you're probably going home. For the record, this has always been the book on Luca.

He is a better Carmelo Anthony. He's not that interested in defense. He's a lob-sided offensive player who can play with others but doesn't necessarily always elevate others. And I've always had this theory about the NBA. If your best player does not play defense, James Hardin, Luca, Kyrie, pre-Lebron, if your best player won't make the effort, it's poison in a locker room. Steph Curry has Draymond Green,

and when Clay was in his prime, he was a great defender. And Steph gave you the effort. He's just not physically a great defender. He gives you the effort. Mello didn't, Luca didn't. D. Wade, to me, has always been a limited offensive player. He made his money on playing big for his size,

and playing defense and effort. But when Duncan played defense, Kobe did. Okay, MJ did. Again, Bird wasn't great, but he gave you the effort. And there's been a lot of great player. KD. gives you the effort. KD. is trying. It's just not great at it.

But when you are like James Harden, I don't really care, that's problematic. when you think of stars that don't play defense, there's about five guys that jump out. Luke is one of them. You don't have to like it. It's the truth. And that was what Dallas was saying. We're not doubting he's a great offensive player.

But do you think it's a coincidence they went and got a great defensive player in AD? Because they were frustrated. Kyrie's not a great defense. So Dallas had two guys that don't defend, Kyrie and Luca. And also, and this matters as well. Lucas never been in great shape. Last year when he got to the finals, he was exhausted. How many times did Harden in a playoff run?

Say what you want. This is a big boy show. It's the truth. Harden looked exhausted in playoff series. You know who never looks exhausted? Even when he's old and plays the entire second half, LeBron gives you, LeBron didn't have his offensive game against Minnesota.

How about on the defensive end, the block of Dante Defintentiono? give me Lucas great dunks. Lucas' great defensive moments. Even as LeBron's been in the league, 22 years, in that fourth quarter when he had nothing left, he made two huge defensive plays. Tell me Lucas' best defensive play ever.

You don't even think of what. Tatum plays defense and plays defense. Yeah. Hardin never did. Luca never has. Mello never did. Duncan did. It matters.

Twenty-second time out here, buddy. We need a timeout. You're going in too hard. First of all, Carmelo Anthony is not in the same class as Luca Donchitz. Luca makes everyone around him better. By the way, I just looked this up. Luca's been to the conference finals two of the last three years. You know, he's a great player.

He's a leader. Put Dallas on his back. Maybe that's why he got hurt this season because he carried that franchise to the NBA finals last year. So I looked up, and no disrespect to Zach Lowe. I looked up just one stack. Defensive rating in the playoffs. Among starters. First of all, like the entire Miami Heat starting lineup is at the top.

worst defense because the calves cooked him. Right. Well, according to defensive rating, Luca has been better, according to just one stat, than LeBron, Rui Hachimura, Darius Garland, Janus, okay?

And by the way, Jackson Hayes has been awful. That's probably why. So the numbers, the numbers don't totally say Lucas has been a turnstile. Okay. Does anybody think Darius Garland, great defender?

He's terrible. Yeah. Okay. So that, I don't even care about that com? I'm just saying like, Rui. Rui. You can't leave him on an island with Anthony every time a hell few people can. But again, yeah, he's never been a great defender. He missed 25 games and he got traded. He's still adjusting. Can we give him a grace period? Like last year, he dispatched Aunt Edwards a company in the conference finals. Remember the F-bombs to Rudy Gobert and his face actually hit that three? No, I like. I like him. But what Zach Lowe is saying, we have another

Zach Lowe bite where he talked about this. The idea of moving off a guy that you have, remember with the new CBA, you were going to have to pay him $70 million a year. Okay. I don't want to have to think about, well, he's not in great shape, he's getting hurt more. Lucas had two dunks the last two years.

He had 25 as a rookie. Like, you're seeing athletically a decline. Here's Zach Lowe. You can find corners of smart NBA people, team people, who would tell you, the idea of getting out ahead of this and trading Luca is not a crazy idea. The idea of doing it without shopping him to get nine first-round draft picks and swaps and doing this specific trade is where the logic falls apart. Yeah, and I think the really smart executives get ahead of stuff. They're not reactionary.

And I just think they didn't get enough back. But, you know, It's when teams pick on you, that's an indication. Think about that. When a team goes, pick on Luca. And I've seen that in this series a couple times. They're going after him. Now, I will say this, Yokic is not a great defender. But Yokic is also basically the entire offense on most nights.

He doesn't have LeBron next to him. Also, he's carrying around 265 pounds. And Yokic isn't a great defender, but he'll tighten it up with six minutes to go, he's a capable defender. That's a good point. Luke, a lot of times he's out of gas with six to go. So listen, maybe this is the California in me speaking, but sometimes things

just happen for a reason. And maybe Luca needs this wake-up call. Hey, y'all got dusted. Hey, LeBron's going to be able to get in your face now and be like, hey, you've got to get in better shape. Maybe Luca needs this. I didn't hear that dunking stat before this morning. That's kind of a stunning stat. I didn't know it's that bad.

But sometimes you need something. I recently had an incident with my car, and I was super heated, and then it took me like 24 hours. I was like, okay, maybe this needed to happen. It's a sign. I'm going to adjust some things. And maybe Luca just needs this wake-up call, call on. I don't know.

Yeah, I just don't think he's going to be an elite defender next year, regardless of what happens. I'm not going to be elites. But I am not denying the Lakers won the trade overwhelmingly, and he is a great offensive player. I just think he's a lob-sided player. Hey, guys, it's us and the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are, And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lennarabakhina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed human.