The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - USC and Notre Dame

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Colin explains why people need to stop criticizing USC for not committing to their rivalry game with Notre Dame and why modern college football is similar to AI and it's time for people to adapt   Guest: Nick Wright See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Thanks for making us part of your day. So, J-Mack, I've been on something, I think, for about, I don't know, three weeks or a month. People tell me I'm getting pushed back. You know, I don't know if I am, but my take is... Oh, it's a take, okay. I thought it was maybe a supplement or something. I'm not a big tradition guy. I didn't go to church as a kid, and a lot of people did.

So I've never been a big romantic about sports. So I saw something interesting this morning. And with that, I would like to introduce America to a pillar of decency, a standard of honesty and truth-telling that is unrivaled in America. The L.A. Times, who now becomes the second media, or not in America, me being the other, that thinks the Notre Dame USC rivalry isn't the beginning in the end of college football. It's just another cool game. The LA Times in one of their graphs said this morning, USC is choosing to take the cold calculated route when it comes to this quandary,

whether to play Notre Dame or not. I understand why. Why should the Trojans be expected to carry the water for the soul of college football at the cost of their own playoff odds, while the rest of the sports leaders, USC's own included, have made clear how much tradition really actually means to them. Yeah, the PAC 12 folded. You can pay high school players. Stop with this almost hackneyed sentimentality. The world changes. Everything else is changing. You can deny AI is going to change the world. but as you do, it just auto-corrected a text. And I know your grandma would prefer a letter, so would Gramps, but they're going to get an emoji and FaceTime.

That's the world we live in. Yeah, I know once USC played in a conference that had games against Cal and Arizona and Arizona State and Stanford, which often is awful and sometimes is interesting, and Washington State and Oregon State, and the only power consistently was Oregon. but now Oregon joined them and now they play Penn State and Michigan and Ohio State. In fact, the three teams from the West that join them, UCLA, Oregon and Washington are their biggest, toughest rivals. Two of them cold weather games. So yeah, USC has said, we'll play the game, but on our terms, early, where it's sunny.

And I don't blame them. Riley is paid to get to the playoffs, not cling to tradition. And I said this yesterday. A November roadie in South Bend, Indiana is not attractive when the following week, after going to South Bend, flying back to L.A. with 19-year-olds, flying back to Philadelphia, flying back home. You still have a tournament, a playoff to be in potentially. So it's a different ball game.

And college football has always had. I've looked at the demographics for years. It has an older fan base, and older people in America generally cling to tradition. I get it. The number one question I am asked. I was asked on the train this morning. The number one question I get asked, what do you make at college sports? And my take is, it's changing.

So is everything. AI is going to change medicine. It's changing law. He was an attorney. It's changing everything. So it can change college football. I think it's changing. The NIL is changing college basketball for the better.

You just have to understand now is the college football is now 75% a professional model, and it's not going backwards. Once you introduce big money into anything, it doesn't go backwards. It doesn't retreat. And so if USC plays Notre Dame, great. But USC doesn't need Notre Dame. Notre Dame refusing to go in a true conference needs USC. So the pendulum at this time in negotiations has swung to USC. I know it's not valiant, as the LA Times also pointed out.

It doesn't show great courage or it's not a valiant move. But it makes sense. Lincoln's paid to get to the playoff. Not to cling to games. That frankly, the biggest rating for college football last year, I think, was Texas and Georgia. It wasn't Texas and Oklahoma. Here's Lincoln Riley on the changes that are happening to his speech. There are some changes that we've all just got to accept because it's just part of it right now.

Obviously, that continues to move and we'll see how it evolves. But I think any door that closes, well, there's also a new, really exciting door that's getting opened. And we've got to, I think we can still love what was in the past, but let's don't miss that there's some like pretty cool things happening right in front of our face right now that we're kind of all in the forefront of. If you're telling me, USC's playing Penn State tomorrow, I'm watching. And Michigan, and Ohio State, and Oregon, and Georgia, and Texas, I'm watching. I don't think it's worth sacrificing another cold weather rowdy in November to appeal to traditionalists. You're not paid for courage. You're paid for winning.

That's the bottom line. With that, Nick Wright, joining us live from New York. host first things first okay so there's a lot of pushback on on SGA and I made this argument an hour ago is that style matters in basketball

you know baseball's about stats NBA to some degree winning matters but it's about style and people forever defended really flawed players in Westbrook and Derek Rose and John Wall and Stevie Francis they were dynamic and fun and because Yokicch or especially SGA is not a lot of fun

to watch. We hammer on him. But he is so consistently brilliant at what he does using his late, three-pointers, two points, mid-range, free throws, that it's like, guys, and your thing, Nick, is when he scores 40 and 30, it connects to wins. He's not a selfish player. It means they win. Kobe could score 40 in the Lakers were a worst team. Are you in this sort of, this kind of tunnel of criticism? I have not heard enough to make a, no. I just see a pro, a refined pro. That's what I see. Well, first of all, you break my heart. You go to Chicago, ride the train, don't have time to listen to my takes anymore. You got no idea where I stand on SGA. It's unbelievable. It's well established. But, so let me tell. Listen, I think both can be true, Colin. And I think

he was the rightful MVP. I don't have a vote, but if I did, I would have given it to him. He won the MVP by a decent margin over a player a lot of people believe. is one of the 15 greatest players ever still in his prime. He almost won the MVP last year. He is getting, the idea that SGA is not appreciated, I don't think is accurate. That can be true, while this can also be true. The falling on the ground like you were shot is unappealing.

And I think that there is a, it is consistent throughout recent NBA history that the guys who we feel like not just sell contact but invent fake contact to get a call we recoil from that

a bit. I think SGA is a brilliant player. I think SGA is clearly going to not only win his first championship this year but win a finals MVP this year. Last night 49 and

10, that type of performance to, in my opinion, get over the last hurdle the thunder really had to winning a championship was an all-time night. I can believe all of that while also believing he would be a slightly more popular player if he didn't three times a game fall over without anyone touching him and another two or three times a game do the harden, hook a guy's arm and create the contact that way. It can be, and there's a last point I'll make on it. You don't get everything in life. And one of the things that SGA gets that other guys don't

is some of these calls. So one of the things he sacrifices to get that might be universal approval rating, such as life, like people make their choices. He is a brilliant, brilliant player, and that team's going to win the championship. I want to talk Ant for a second. I believe artists, most artists at their core, want to be heard and seen.

It could be a painter, you could be a basketball player, you could be a talk show host, that we're all selfish to some degree. But now we live in this world of collaboration and sharing and all getting along. And it's my knock on Jason Tatum. Stop being collaborative. Take the game over. And Aunt last night's like, well, I didn't get a lot of shots. I don't want to hear that.

You can't have one shot in the first quarter. Like, be selfish. Michael was selfish. Magic, bird at times. McHale, watch me perform. Michael, Scotty, I'll take the shots. This idea, like Tatum and Ant are both more collaborative and great teammates. It hurts the team.

I want you to be selfish at times. Is that a bad take? Well, no, I don't think it's a bad take. Last night's game is odd, though, because they scored 126 points. They scored 40 in the fourth quarter. Their problem was not their offense. Their problem was they couldn't get a stop, and OKC's big three. The stat of the day for you, Colin, is this.

The big three in Oklahoma City last night scored more points combined in a playoff game than Katie Russ and Hardin ever did. They scored 95. That's why Minnesota lost. Now, so I understand what Ant is saying, but the obvious, retort is, okay, that's fine, you can't take two shots in the first half of a must-win game. He just can't. And it's not as if it happened because he had 17 assists. Like, he was doing a good job making the right read, but we have seen at various times where he can get somewhat taken out of the game by a defensive scheme in a way that a guy

who's a potential one-day MVP, you wish he wouldn't. With the obvious, the obvious, defensive ant at all times is he's 23. Like this is the next step in his learning process. It is a bummer that it would appear in back-to-back years. They outplayed their seed. They had a pretty big upsets along the way to the conference finals. And then in back-to-back conference finals, Ant was not quite at his best,

but he is still ahead of schedule for what he has individually and his team have accomplished at this point in his career. Yeah, I said earlier, go back to the 80s. Michael played the Pistons, a great defensive team, and he had bad halves. Like, it's part of the maturation stage. So, you know, we got into a discussion yesterday is that I understand a New York star. I mean, if Aaron Judge played with the Royals, he would be great. We wouldn't talk about him.

If O'Tonnie was with the Angel. Bobby Witt Jr. or Rayshard. I mean, I'm not going to allow you to do that. The future face of baseball, Bobby baseball in Kansas City. but go ahead, sorry, as you were. I mean, O'Tonnie with the Dodgers is different, you know, 10 miles up the road from O'Tonnie with the Angels. And so I understand Brunson is the best quarterback in New York,

but we got into this thing yesterday where you can't now have Brunson on the court with Kat. It's a defensive problem, and he's very ball-centric, so you have to find the right players like a KD that can catch and shoot. And I said, if you're asking me tomorrow, who I would start my franchise with, Brunson or Halliburton.

Halliburton can play with anybody. he's effective when he's not scoring he's a better defensive player he can also shoot but I could put him with any I always felt this about like Clay Thompson he would have fit on every team KD like that

when LeBron's with your team he is the ecosystem Brunson's not LeBron but as I watch Brunson I think it's been a really good tell that Kat's not going to be the future and that KD fits better and that Halliburton has a brighter future because he may he

works with every player everybody works with haliburton brunson is player and style specific okay so that's i i there's there's a lot there so i understand your point about that halberton can fit you know play better with others so to speak i still don't think he's a better player than jalen brunson and i it's close but i still think jalen brunson's ceiling and upside is higher and And I know when you, listen, you're right that Halliburton is a better defender. But that, I mean, Haliburton's not exactly locking anyone down. Like Brunson is a minus defender, maybe a minus minus defender, and Halliburton is just a slightly minus defender.

He's not doing a lot of the defensive work for Indiana. And listen, Halliburton is a better distributor, but Brunson is a far better score. I don't put the Halliburton, I'm sorry, the Brunson cat struggles at times when they're on the court together, primarily on Jalen Brunson. I put it more on Kat. I think Kat needs to be more assertive with the ball at times. I also think it is smart if Tom Tibdo would stagger them a bit more than he does. And when Kat is out there without Brunson, he has to look at it as these are my shots.

This is my offense, and that doesn't necessarily just mean shooting threes, even though he's a great three-point shooter. My biggest disagreement with you is this. If you're the New York Knicks, you cannot trade Carl Anthony Towns for Kevin Durant. Like Kevin Durant, I understand your point that do I think, like, in a vacuum, that style of player would fit better with J.L. Alan Brunson, a guy who's just catching shoot and has already been in an offense where he is the epicenter, where he's not the epicenter, all that. I get that. But just because KD. is going to be 38 and is not injury-wise reliable, I wouldn't do it. I also think people have written the Knicks obituary too early. I think the Knicks are going to win tonight, and I still think they are

going to win this series. And I think that if that happens, we might look at it like, all right, the Pacers, obviously, underrated by a lot of us throughout the year, back-to-back conference finalists, but we might maybe got a little ahead of ourselves, anointing them as the future of the Eastern Conference. Okay, I said this yesterday. There's a couple of soundbites where Aaron Rogers said, I'm not going to play in Louisiana. I'm not going to be a saint. So where he plays matters, clearly.

He's also been quoted saying, or a source close to him saying, no, I think he said it. I'd play for $10 million. So money's not a driving force. Yeah. So location matters, money doesn't. And then he recently said he was at kind of a Q&A that, yeah, I'd go back to Green Bay. Well, that means you don't even see yourself necessarily. You'd go back to family and not even be a starter.

So all of it feels like to me he's an inch from retirement. That said, I don't count passer rating. Tuas, Garoppelos is higher than Josh Allen, Manning, and Brady. Take passer rating out. It's nonsense. It doesn't mean anything. Russell Wilson's is a mile higher than Kurt Warner and Brady and Manning and Big Ben and Josh Allen. It doesn't matter.

Now, now, Mahomes is great. It can matter, but it's not a defining trait. And I said, if Aaron retired today, he is my Dan Marino. What do I do? Basketball style, baseball stats, football's winning. Aaron's got one iconic playoff moment. I don't know if Marino has any. What do I do for a one appearance on the Super Bowl?

500 playoff guy, the MVP's matter some, where do we classify Aaron all time in your opinion? I think we'll agree on this outside of the top five inside the top 10. Yeah, I don't agree. Oh, you don't think he's top 10 all time? No, no. I think he's out of it. I think Fav is like 9 to 10. Okay, so then can we, this kind of off top of my head,

but like, let's just go. Tell me, see, here are the guys I would clearly have ahead of Aaron, okay? Brady, Mahomes, Montana, Elway,

I would have Marino ahead of Aaron. There's one obvious one. Oh, I'm sorry, did I not say Peyton? Yes, Peyton,

yes. I knew there was an obvious one I'm leaving. So there are my six. I have ahead of it. Okay. Go ahead. Terry Bradshaw.

I mean, how many times do you have to win the Super Bowl. How about Aikman's got three Super Bowls? I mean, that has to matter more than regular season stuff. Hold on. I love, well, so this is a, I love Troy. Troy is not a better player than Aaron Rogers. And Troy had, I mean, Troy was, Troy was an excellent quarterback on an all-time team. I don't, I personally can't put Troy ahead of Aaron. I also, though, the Terry to me is on that same tier. Like, let me ask you this because this is, and I'm not, you know, Aaron's last five years, I think, have, you know, left a lot of us wanting a lot on and off the field.

But do you think Aaron, like Aaron versus Drew Breeze, I feel like you have to put Aaron ahead of them? Like, they both have, tell me. Yeah, I think it's inches, but I would put Aaron ahead of Breeze by an inch. But I don't put Breeze as a top 10 guy, because I think, I think Mahomes has knocked several players out of it. I was always an Aaron guy over a Fav guy. I think he's a smarter player and he's more on schedule. But I think what happened to Aaron is once Brady, I've told you this before,

when Brady and Manning started compiling trophies, Aaron got overly protective of his passer rating and became a, became a much more, a safer player in big games. He started playing to protect his passer rating, And that, to me, started the downward trend in big games. If he had a pick, if he had two, he just wouldn't make certain throws. And I think that's the last seven to eight years. I think that's totally fair.

I think that's right. And I will give you credit that when you and I first got to know each other, you were making a similar point. And I thought you were crazy. And I've come around more to your side of things. I still think that Bradshaw, Staubach, Fav Rogers are all to me in that, you know, of them, again, I'm not going to do Unitas and Baugh and those, I don't know how to do those. If we just basically go with Bart

Star, like, since the merger, I think there are, to me, six guys I would clearly have ahead of Aaron, and then five or six guys, he's right there with them. And the Marino part is tricky, because you're right, he's got none of the winning. But the flip side to that, That is, literally every person that covered the league in the 80s or played, they all swear a blood oath that he's one of the greatest players anyone's ever seen. And so I feel like there is some of that same almost mythological aspect to Aaron, which is guys who played with him and against him talk about his talent in such an amazing way. I also would ask this before we move on. Would he firmly be looked at as top 10, even if it's 10th, if he had simply retired after his last year in Green Bay?

Is it everything that's happened in the last couple of years? Has that hurt him? I don't know. You say no. Okay. No, because I watched Michael Jordan play for the Wizards. I went to one of those games, maybe two, and it doesn't matter. And I think, I mean, Unitas ended up, I swear, on the West.

coast. I don't think it matters. I think we take, I mean, I've said this before. Marlon Brando had like six legendary movies and eight bombs. Tom Cruise was in Vanilla Sky and Rock of Ages. We look at your greatest work. We don't, I mean, Tom Cruise couldn't figure out he was just an action star until six years ago when he finally figured out, this is what people like. Shots fired at Tom Cruise. No, I love Tom Cruise. But I mean, he when he finally came to terms with, the more I run, the more people love me, the more stuff I do stunts, the more they love me. And he was always a good actor, but it was like it takes time to define what you are as an artist. And when he did, he was great.

And I think I look at Aaron and Marino and I'm like, what are the moments? I don't have a lot of them. That part's fair. That part's fair. Also, last point on this, I'm glad, good for you that you were able to watch those Jordan games with the Wizards, because the NBA's burned the film of it, so nobody else can watch them. That was like Wilts 100-point game. You had to be there in the stadium that moment if you want to see anything about it. By the way, one more question.

The Caitlin Clark stuff is amazing. I was talking to Danny Parkins about this, and there's all sorts of things that people are getting worked up over. But here is the one thing beyond that. Merchandise sales went up 500%. The valuation of the team, an awful team that had the number one pick, went from 90 million to 340 million.

I think her only comp is Tiger Woods. I don't even think Michael and LeBron match this. This is a sport we didn't watch, and now I find myself. I was hanging out with family this weekend, and a bunch of the college kids were there, and they're like, oh, if Kailen Clark's on, that's what the frat's watching, over everything. I don't even know. I mean, I think we're underselling her impact. What say you?

Well, listen, I mean, I guess, you know, depending on who you're talked to if it's undersold, I think you're right that it is, Tiger Woods is the best comp, in that it took a sport that was incredibly popular amongst a small segment of the population, and one person made it seemingly mainstream. And this is where I would encourage people who are big-time pre-Kately Clark, WMBA fans, or women's basketball fans,

to embrace this rally. than push back against it. Do you know who the biggest beneficiaries of Tiger Woods were? Other golfers, Ronnie Ells, and Sergio Garcia, and Phil Mickelson, and David Duval, and all these folks who became bigger celebrities and wealthier and more popular because there were more people coming to the party. I think, you know, one of the biggest winners from Caitlin Clark is going to be Asia Wilson. who is still the best player in the sport.

I think Paige Beckers, who it could be a real rivalry with Caitlin Clark over the next decade, she's a winner from this. I think there is, I know people have tried to force and understandably so. Caitlin versus Angel, the problem is, like, right now Angel is a very good defensive player and good rebounder. She is not a great player yet, and so Caitlin's real rivalry is going to be with the other great players. But it's going to be so good for everyone associated with. with the sport.

And so it's going to be great for the defending champion New York Liberty. And so there are a lot of complicated things surrounding the WNBA. This one is not one of them. Having a supernova celebrity be awesome at your sport and bringing more people to the party is good for everyone in the sport. Yeah, no, it's interesting. I remember Marco Mira was one of the first golfers that really befriended Tiger. and it's like, guys, this is really good.

And it took Mark O'Meara, a veteran smart guy, to say like, hey, guys, stop the pushback. I'm waiting for the WNBA star in the league to come out and just say, guys, ladies, what are we doing here? And it may take that because I think you remember, I can remember being a sportscaster and get complaints all the time. All you guys talk is Tiger. And I'm like, have you watched him? Do you see what's happening? He's like incredible. So I do think what could really be helpful for Caitlin is getting some peer.

And like an Asian Wilson level player, let's get five or six in the league that just say, guys, we've got to be, we're crazy here. We're all flying private now. Well, and I think, listen, because Caitlin came out with some kind of off-the-court social commentary. I think after last year that I think really in a positive way struck a chord with some of the veterans in the league. And I know Asia Wilson did come out and say, how much that mattered. I think it's tricky when it is, yes, it is a rising tide aspect, but then it is also a, but you're not yet better than me and you're young. And so like there,

I understand the competitive rivalries pieces of it, but it is great for the sport. And it's great for sports fans. Like, as I learned just from being an indie this past week, the more cool events we have that are well produced, that are championship level, that millions of people are into, the better it is for everyone. It's just more fun. And so I think it's all positive.

Nick Wright, first things first. Good seeing you, buddy. See you, Colin. Yeah, it's I've heard this pushback. Well, Caitlin's not the best WNBA player. Well, Steph's not the best NBA player and never has been. But he's the most interesting

and affected the most change. You don't have to be, you know, the best actor to be the most popular, right? Like, Tom Cruise is the most popular actor in America. Is he the best actor? Well, he's really good. I don't, you know, I'm not an artist. I don't know how he's judged. He's never won an Oscar. He's won a lot of Golden Globes. So I don't think, they're, I mean, this is just the way it works. Like Connor McGregor, Tiger was the best golfer and the most popular. And Connor McGregor, I think John Jones is a better all-time fighter, but Connor was the most popular and most polarizing and maybe was the second or third best fighter.

But I don't think that diminishes what Caitlin Clark's doing, not being the best player. She's the best guard. And in a recent anonymous poll, more GMs in that space, that league, the WNBA, would start their franchise with her. In Chicago, it's the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the I-Hart Radio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we, how do we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band

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The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian win? I mean, she went down in three to Rovachina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Both J-Mack and Nick Wright, like the New York Knicker. Bockers tonight on the road. I do not see it that way. The line is only two, which surprised me, J-Mack. I thought it would be like three and a half to four. It's gone up to three here in the last couple hours. A lot of people think the Pacers bounce back. I've got some numbers I'm writing it. I just wrote it up for foxports.com. I like the Knicks tonight. All right, J-Mack with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Colin, we're going to start with the NFL and the Buffalo Bills. We know their favorite, obviously, in the AFC East, but you and a lot of people seem to like the New England Patriots. Our staff put together an interesting tidbit. Check out all these new additions, obviously besides the head coaching the offensive coordinator. I did not realize. I know they spent like drunken sailors in free agency, but look at how many potential starters they added, Colin. I mean, we know Diggs is going to start coming off the injury should be good. Matt Collins is going to be a valuable addition for them.

They steal Morgan Moses from the Jets. They got a new center, Bradbury, I believe, from Minnesota. This team may have like eight or nine new starters, so there could be a little lag time in them jelling early, but I do believe they will come on strong and be a contender for a wild card spot. Yeah, I don't think they're a great team. I think there's about six teams every year to seven that can play for the championship. but like, I mean, last year is a great example.

Denver made the playoffs. We didn't see them as a team that was a viable conference championship contender. That's not going to be New England. But coaching, stability, elevation of a young quarterback, and line play will be noticeably better. They'll be at least competent offensively, and they were not last year. You know, the worst part about this is as a Jets fan for my entire life, there was a window when Brady left. Yeah, he's gone, baby.

Here we come. It's Jets time. And the Jets had a window. They had Sala. They had Rogers. That thing closed so damn quickly. What do they say? When God closes a door, he opens a window?

I mean, it didn't happen for the Jets. Nothing opened up. It didn't happen. And Colin, I hate to say it, but Aaron Glenn, people don't want to say there's pressure on him. But if the Patriots suddenly vault up to nine or ten wins. Oh, they will. They will.

A young quarterback on a rookie deal and Vrabble. It's like we're screwed again. Well, if you look, and this always happens. That's why it matters if you're a well-run business because dynasties are formed. There's all-time great performers, coaches and businesses. You may have 16 to 20 months to take advantage of a situation.

A Peyton Manning gets hurt. Brady leaves town. And the jets are not well-run. So they're not, like, there are opportunities. Like Minnesota right now, May, Yokic gets hurt, maybe SGA gets hurt, and they're good enough and well-run and well-coached enough with Connerly, the GM, and Chris Finch and Ant. You could look at Minnesota saying they're probably never going to be champs, but they're built if there was a key injury that they would be ready and catapulted to championship level. If you're well-built, you still may never win a title, but you're in the running if you get a break.

But, like, you know, prime example is Phil Mickelson was always capable of winning a major. Tiger was there. But if Tiger gets hurt, Tiger misses a major, Tiger gets injured, you're there ready to win that major. And I think that's the Jets' problem is they're just not built well enough to take advantage of a 15-to-18-month window. You know, that great, great example there. Remember how the Raptors had Lowry and DeRosa in the backcourt forever? Yeah. And they just couldn't get by LeBron.

He was just sweeping them every year. Well, guess what happens? The one year, Kauai Leonard becomes available, we're going all in. That's right. Kevin Durant goes down, play gets hurt, and they get the luckiest title in NBA. Sorry, Toronto, I had to get that. But they were built for it. They were always well-run and well-coached.

They had good roster construction. They got a break, and they took advantage of it. Listen, everybody needs a break. No doubt about that. Colin, next up is your main man, Austin Reeves. We can't call him AR-15. That's a dumb nickname thing. However, Austin Reeves, we've been doing a lot of stuff on him lately because

You seem to think they need to move off of him. Well, Austin Reeves's agent tweeted, next year is going to be a show. People really have no idea what's to come. Keep putting him in trade rumors for second string centers. I tried to tell you last week. Coward, that junk ain't happening. They're not moving off Reeves.

LeBron loves him. Luca loves him. He's a homegrown guy. He's a massive great skill set. He had a rough series against Anthony Edwards. Oh, my gosh. You know, they're not moving off him, Colin. That's fine.

And then just own what your reality is going to be is that Lucas is not an elite defender. Austin isn't. You don't have a rim protector. And LeBron's good defensively in moments. They're going to get a rim protector. Now, yeah, here's the numbers on Reeves. We got to say, you know, the staff wants to sandbag me here. 31% from three.

Did not have a great series. That's undeniable. They were third in the West. The Lakers will be back. Listen, my hottest take that got me in trouble last night on social media. There was only two teams here to take down on. OkC. The Celtics? Tatum goes down. And the other was the Lakers. The Lakers were built for this team. Luca owns OKC. Both are gone. And the Thunder now have a runway to the championship, which

I'll save some of that stuff for Friday. Final story is OKC. And Shea Gilgis Alexander, aka the free throw merchant. Colin, fans in Minnesota have been chanting free throw merchant when he's at the line. I love it. Here's what SGA had to say about the chance. In terms of the label, I don't care. I never cared. I said this before. I've shot more fri-thos in a season than I did this season. I think because we're on the top of everyone's radar,

it's a little bit more noticeable, and now people care about it. But I kind of see it as a compliment. So I need to just clear something up. It's not about how many times he goes to the line, Colin. It's a style of plaything. Right, right, right. watch. He is a flopper. He makes LeBron look like a non-flopper. Okay. Every time he goes into the lane,

he's hooking people to bring him in and then, oh my God, like he got shot. Okay, Colin, it's a thing. And it's people say, well, what about Brunson? It's not even close. Brunson doesn't flop like SGA because of SGA's frame. He's like a long, what is he, six, five, six, six. He's long and wiry. And he's always acting like, he's just like doing dance moves. I'm just telling you, it's annoying and Colin, you're probably going to get here later in the week. This is a boring team. OKC is not really fun. Watch their brand.

Watch the quotes. They've kind of sucked the fun out of the series. Anthony Edwards, your guy, face of the league, he hasn't, it's not fun. The series just kind of stinks. Well, and I've said this before, you could take out four NBA players all time. Magic Bird. Michael and Steph. And you could argue that the NBA is not as popular

as the media makes it believe. Like there's only been four to... Now, Shaq and Kobe, as a tandem, were great. But the NBA's only had four or five players, and even Dr. Jay didn't get a big TV rating. Many of the Celtics teens did not. Jason Tatum doesn't. Michael did.

Magic Bird did. Steph Curry, Shaq and Kobe. Duncan, Akeem Oshin, great players, didn't move the needle. So my take is, yes, Yokic in Denver, I love watching them play. Don't move the needle. Spurs and Duncan, didn't move the needle.

The Celtics, by the way, you think because of the brand, they're collaborative. Tatum's not really the oral alpha guy. They don't move the needle. So when people, here's what I know, the NBA got $76 billion. They got what they wanted. It's up to the networks to make it work.

Hockey, nobody's watching. Baseball regular season, problematic. NBA's fine. This is a great discussion, and you keep saying move the needle. The antiquated version in the 80s and 90s was TV ratings. Now there are more metrics, Colin. There's merch. And NBA players move merch than any baseball hockey or NFL player on the planet.

That's right. And I don't know if you determine the needle as social media, but like La Mello Ball, who I don't think has ever won a playoff game, has more followers on Instagram than any NFL player, any hockey player. Like, the players move the needle culturally. Yeah, no, no, no. You and I agree on this. I've said it before. The NBA got their money. They culturally matter.

They matter with apparel. It's style and culture. It's hockey has a, has a, hockey is Canada's. It's Europe's. Like basketball, we feel like it's ours. And our stars. Also, in my lifetime, and more than ever, one thing that really moves the needle in this country, star power. It can be movies, it can be music, it can be basketball.

NBA has always had five or six guys that are, you could go into any household in America. Basketball casuals, sports casuals, they've heard of Stefan LeBron. Like, and hockey doesn't have that, and baseball doesn't usually have that. And the other thing is like the stars, the Hollywood, the Celebrity Row and Massachusetts. Madison Square Garden. Like, that stuff pumps it up and makes it culturally relevant. I do, you know, I don't think that OKC has a lot of swag, if you will. Like, SGA seems like a great guy.

They're a boring watch. I admit it. By the way, did the NBA put them on opening night? Did they put them on Christmas? Did they put the pastures on Christmas? Like, no, the NBA knows there's no wattage there. There's no cultural relevance. A great example.

When Janus was winning a title and there were playoff games, they put the bucks on it one in the afternoon. Often on NBA TV. Like just, and Yonis is an all-time great. Jamie after the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News.

Rick Buecker, final hour, it's The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, is Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7. 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and, of course, the I Heart Radio app.

Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio.

Maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio on the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Cabino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the René. a Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Rick Buecker last hour. So it's the SEC Media Days? And we were talking earlier about Lincoln Riley, just strategically in USC saying there's a lot of changes happening.

And I've defended USC saying his job is to make the playoff, not to appeal to college football traditionalists. where the sentimentality can be a little over the top. I mean, the PAC 12 doesn't even exist anymore. And one of the reasons is because the only three teams that followed USC to the Big Ten were the three biggest rivals, the three toughest teams for USC to beat, which is Oregon, especially in Eugene, Washington, especially at Husky Stadium, and cross-down rival UCLA, into Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan. And that doesn't even count the playoff.

And so like USC is like, I'm not sure I want to play Notre Dame. And if we do, got to be early in the season. We'll do it, you know, maybe a two-year contract, not 12. Notre Dame obviously wants it. So USC has, you can see this, has softened and lightened up their schedule. Missouri State, Georgia Southern. They've done that. That is based on joining the Big Ten.

And what they want to do is in these years in which you have these brutal cold weather games. We saw what cold weather did to USC last year in their initial season. They struggled. It's a warm weather program. And I've said this. There's never been an NFL dome dynasty. It is different when you play in nine degrees

like Kansas City, Green Bay, New England, Baltimore, Philadelphia. You're used to it. And so here's Sark talking about the world's changed and the days of just running through your conference and being undefeated are over. Sark

basically saying, Okay, the screen right now. Okay, here we go. Sark says, when it comes to college football changes, I don't think we'll ever see an undefeated national champ again. If we do build a statue, hopefully we're getting to the point where the best teams make the playoff. That's why I said last year it was great that Ohio State could lose early to Oregon

and late to Michigan and still be invited to the playoff. because it was in my entire life when you lost. And for the record, Notre Dame lost an early game at home, and we wondered aloud, are they out of the playoff? Why? Why? That's why they want USC. That's why they just signed a deal with Clemson.

Notre Dame needs these big, big traditional games. They need top 20 programs. USC's got plenty of them. They're full. of top 20 programs up and down the schedule going forward. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it.

But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. You get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy. Not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the eye, Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of you. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do.

Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.