The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 2 - Watson, NBA

Episode Date: March 11, 2022

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome back to the herd. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd today. Colin out for a few days taking a long weekend. He will be back on Monday. Thanks for joining us. Thanks to Jason Taylor for Football Hall of Famer. And a part of Mario Cristobal's coaching staff

with Miami Hurricanes at the University of Miami, which I am thrilled about. I absolutely love the U. and I can't wait to see what they do there. I didn't even think it was going to be possible to get Mario Cristobal at the U. I was very skeptical of that. So the fact that he is there and putting together the staff that he is is incredible. Alex Curry is joining me today.

Alex, you haven't seen Batman yet, right? No, no. The Batman. I apologize. The Batman. You just got to put the in front of the movie and then it's a new, whole new cast. The Batman. I have not, but you know, you were talking a lot about the length of it.

And everyone's talking about the length of it. Okay. It's, here's the thing. Let me just say this, though. Okay. Because you said what? Three hours. It's three hours.

But we will willingly sit down and binge watch TV shows for eight to ten hours. Yes. Difference? Well, actually, I haven't done that in a while. I haven't done that since like lockdown. Yeah. But it's a fair point. Yeah.

That is a cultural thing that we do. And we don't complain about it. Nope. But you do get breaks. So like if you do at one point, get tired of watching this content, you can opt out of it. Or are you still sitting there? Are you still watching?

You're like, yeah, rub it in. I'm still here. Right. But so you can't do that. And when it's a movie, you know, this is the whole thing. Yeah. So you're not going to like leave, you know, you're not going to pause and finish watching it. So you mentally prepared going into it?

I was mentally prepared. I was. It wasn't excruciating. Okay. But I just afterwards, I was like, great movie. Yeah. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Love the villains.

I love the villains. I think Batman is well done. The entire movie is very dark, so you have to lean into it's never going to get lighter. It's a vibe. It's all going to feel heavy. Zoe Kravitz is unbelievable, incredible. Overall, I really liked it.

It was a little bit too long, but the villains were great. And I think there was just, I think the reason it was so long is because there's a lot of setup. So there's going to be follow up movies, I'm assuming. So I guess the question is, worth it to see in theaters? I think, I believe so. The big screen. You want to see it?

On the big screen. Yeah, you want to see superhero movies on the big screen. Sold. Yeah. But it's, it is, it is very dark. So just prepare yourself for that. It's very gloomy. It's very violent.

It's a vibe. I would not. The little, little ones. Yeah. Skip it. It's just, it's very violent. It's very violent, very dark. There's nothing shiny or marvely about it.

It's not, I know it's D.C. Just, for everyone starts freaking out. But it's not, it's aggressive. So we're going to get to Eric Mangini. I know I tease the quarterback market. So we were talking about Batman instead. I'll get to the quarterback market in a little bit. But let's go out to Eric Mangini, Fox Sports NFL analyst, former head coach.

Hey, coach. Thanks for joining me today. Hey, how are you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. It's been a wild march for the NFL. And it's normally a very quiet time. It's really been crazy.

So I guess we'll start with the Aaron Rogers story. All of us were, you know, puppets on the string. waiting to find out what he was going to do. It's been a very long year of drama and stories and leaks and all of that. But he ended up staying. I didn't think it was necessarily the right move football-wise. I feel like I've seen this. They're up against the cab.

It's going to be a different team. But I won't ask you if you're surprised because none of us knew what Aaron Rogers was going to do. But what are your expectations for Aaron Rogers with the Packers moving forward now that he stayed? And they brought back to DeVonte Adams. Well, throughout this whole process, I really thought, Joy, that this was the end game for Aaron the whole time. He wanted more money. He wanted better compensation and security, and it looks like he's able to take care of that. And the problem with that is whether it's him or whether it's DeMonte Adams,

you've got two really good players, but they're a year older and they're a lot more expensive. So the team doesn't get any better. and like you said in terms of the salary cap, they're significantly over the salary cap, so they're going to have to make adjustments there. They can't go and do anything really in free agency, so it's going to come down to how well they draft and how well they can replace the players that they're going to have to move on from because of these new contracts. I think if Aaron really felt as strongly as they did about adding good players and continuing

to improve the roster, you know, that's when you take it. below market value, but that's not really the area where he lives. Yeah, there's very much mixed messaging coming from Aaron Rogers. Personally, I'm getting off the roller coaster now. Like, I've ridden it through this whole season. And my tummy hurts. I'm getting off. But also, I don't think that there's anything left to learn about Aaron Rogers.

I'm not saying that they're not still in the conversation for being contenders. When you have the back-to-back MVP as your quarterback, you have to be in the conversation. but I don't think we are really emphasizing how catastrophic the ending of their season was with the roster that they had and being the number one seed in the NFC. Is that fair? No, you're absolutely right. To be in the position that they were in after all the turmoil of the offseason, it's really hard to do.

And we sometimes fall in this trap of thinking that just because a team performed really well, the previous season, that's what we're going to get the next year. But it's a difficult thing to accomplish. And it becomes more difficult when your top players have a bigger and bigger chunk of the salary cap because now you're relying on younger players or less expensive players to be able to fill gaps that you had filled by more experienced guys. And that makes it that much more difficult or a much bigger challenge to get those guys in a position where they can contribute like the guys you had did.

We're talking to Eric Mangini, Joy Taylor, and for Colin Cowherd on The Herd. So the other big story, the much bigger story to me, is that Russell Wilson is now with the Denver Broncos, a team that was very much in the market for Aaron Rogers, and now we're hearing stories that actually for the last two weeks they've been trying to work out this deal with Russell Wilson, and they get him, which is huge for that organization.

He is still in his prime. So we'll start for the Broncos first. how impactful is he going to be right away with that roster? It's huge. It's unbelievable that you could go and get a player like Russell Wilson. I was shocked that this trade happened. I never thought that Seattle would let him leave. And I think that sometimes you forget how good you have it when you've got a quarterback like Russell Wilson for as long as they have. Guys only had one losing season since he's been there.

and that was this past season. He's got a quarterback rating over 100. He doesn't turn the ball over, and he's going to go to a new team where he's going to be energized and motivated to justify the move that was made. It's incredible, it's incredible for Denver, and it's a little unbelievable on Seattle's part.

I completely agree with you. I've said all season ever since the report that he was unhappy that if I'm Seattle, I'm not listening to anything that anybody has to say about Russell Wilson. I have a Hall of Fame quarterback in his prime in the building. How hard it is to find that and cultivate that? Like, forget whatever else is going on. So I'm with you.

I am completely shocked, which makes me feel like Russell Wilson gave them an ultimatum, and he wanted to be, he asked to be moved because why else would you move him, even if you are in a rebuild on the rest of the roster? So that being said, what do they do? I mean, they have Drew Locke and could bring back Gino Smith. Do you think that they make a move to bring in another quarterback? Yeah, they're going to have to continue to make moves to try to fill that void. And as much as you want to say, well, we're going to win it with defense.

Their defense wasn't very good last year. And they've got problems to fix on that side of the ball. And again, Joy, it really comes on to, I think, forgetting how good you have it. And sometimes as a coach, you can overestimate your own ability because of the incredible players that you're coaching. And when you don't have a franchise quarterback, every other thing has to be perfect if you're going to compete at a high level. And it's very rare that every other thing is perfect. It's just hard to overcome. We're talking to Eric Manjini.

So Washington, the Washington commanders, which will take some time to get used to saying that. It does. Now brought in Carson Wentz. I think it is an upgrade for them. I'm shocked that it took them this long to realize they needed to be in the quarterback market. And he was like their fifth or sixth choice, but he is an upgrade there. And I do think it's a panic move by the cults. However, I am not a huge wenz guy.

I think there's enough evidence that he is inconsistent. He is still holding on to the reputation that he had that fake MVP year in Philadelphia. And there's lots of reports of how he is in the building with leadership and with coaches. coaches and now he's in his third team. So am I, am I wrong on Carson Wentz? I think he's a good quarterback, not great. No, I don't think so at all. But that's a great example of what we're talking about. Washington was so desperate to upgrade a quarterback that they make the move that they make. And it's a substantial commitment from a salary cap standpoint.

They're not bad from a trade standpoint. But that's what it's like when you don't have a guy. You go get anybody that can, even if it's marginally, upgrade the position. And he's on his third team. And the last two teams gave him a lot when they got him. And then we're willing to sacrifice a lot to move on from him, which tells you a lot about the player. Does he have a chance to go in and perform better than what they had? Yeah, is he the answer? He's got a long way to go to prove that the guy we saw at one point very early in his career,

is the guy that he can be for any extended period of time. Yeah, it's the extended period of time for me. I just feel like he insists on being reckless in the biggest moments because that's just what he's always been. But at some point or another, you either are that or you're going to be coached out of that or adjust that in your game. And I just don't think that he's shown the ability to do that.

We have enough of a sample size. Another guy that insists on allowing the other team to be involved in the game no matter what is Jimmy Garapolo. I actually am much higher on Jimmy Garoppolo. than most people. My biggest issue with Jimmy Garapolo is that he is not available. I would rather take a guy that's slightly less talented but consistently available than a high ceiling and is always injured. Now, whether that's his fault or not, it's just a part of his legacy at this point. I mean, he's now had another surgery. But the quarterback market is very bleak, as you just mentioned.

So do you think that another surgery hurts his value? you? Yeah, and again, you go and get him and then you think, well, we're going to have to go get someone else to give us four, five, six game to season based off of his track record. And as you get older and you have more surgeries, that doesn't improve, if anything, that gets worse and those injuries, you start compensating for injuries and that creates other injuries. But I was always, I always struggled with the fact that San Francisco did what they did. to trade up and give away as much as they did to move on from Jimmy Garoppolo. And in the playoffs, the way that they seem to marginalize his role,

to me that's telling a lot about how they thought about him in those key moments. And that would be a struggle for me to think, okay, we've got our answer. You know, you got a guy like Marcus Marietta, who's going to be a free agent. You'd think teams would take a swing at him and see Adam. much lower rate and see whether or not he can resurrect his career. Marcus Marriota. Well, I mean, if you're looking at the free agents that are available right now, Jimmy's obviously going to be a trade piece.

But you have James Winston, Teddy, Marcus Marriota, as you mentioned, Andy Dalton, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Mitchell Tribeschi, Jacoby Brissette, and Terad Taylor. I would put Mitchell Tribesky at the top of that quarterback market list, even slightly above Jimmy Garoppolo. DeShawn Watson, again, is. We don't know what's going on with him. We'll actually find out today. Kirk Cousins is just, name is just popping up.

And I don't think Tom Brady is coming back at all. And Kyler Murray is just a weird situation. But I would put Mitchell Chubisky above him just for health reasons. Yeah, you got to wonder when you look at Mitchell Trubisky, whether or not he has a chance to continue to grow. And what we saw as a rookie and as a young quarterback, quarterback was a true indication of where he is, how much growth he's made. You know, when you do get cut, that's such a shock to the system. And oftentimes, guys take a step in terms of growth.

And he'd be a guy, I would seriously consider taking a chance on. Be interested to see what happens in New York with the Giants, whether or not they go and try to bring him in there, you know, with his experience. with Brian Daewall. And again, that goes my point with a guy like Marcus Marriota, you know, maybe with the growth that he's made, the maturity being able to sit for a little while. And was he like Ryan Tannahill has been for the Titans. Yeah.

They keep saying they're going to stick with Daniel Jones, coach. I know. I hear that. I hear it too. It's funny, though, as you get into that process of evaluating the roster and you watch more tape and you get to know guys, you sometimes pivot from those decisions. But if that's a commitment they gave to the ownership when they took the job, then maybe Daniel Jones will be there for at least another year. Yeah, it feels like they're insisting on that. I don't think it's there,

but I think Giants fans would like to hear something different. Before I let you go, Coach, obviously we're now in that part of the season. Free agency, trades, we're coming up on the draft. Did you have any particular philosophy on evaluating players? Obviously, you want to get the most talented, but was there something particular that you looked for when you were building your roster and bringing in guys? Well, for the, actually for everybody, I looked at character, and I was always been a big believer in character. And, you know, the idea that talent sets a floor and character sets a ceiling is something that I think we see year in and year out where for guys who are extremely talented, underperform,

and guys who are less talented somehow surprise and deliver in the biggest moments. So that was my starting point. In terms of production for first-round draft picks, I wanted them to play a thousand reps, whether it was a combination of their role on offense and defense and the role on special teams, but be able to contribute a thousand meaningful reps to the course of the season. and then it kind of went down each round after that,

but making sure that we didn't whiff on guys to where they, we expend a high draft pick and we're not getting anything out of them for a year or two, especially for the teams that are desperate need of contributions right away. Well, thanks for jumping on with us, coach. Appreciate you hanging out with us. Hope you have an awesome weekend. Have you seen Batman yet? I did.

I saw it with my kids. My middle son said it was the best movie. that he's ever seen. He's a diehard Batman fan, but he said it's the best movie he has ever seen, and he loved it. I thought it was a little long. Three hours was got a little long.

They probably could have done it shorter than that, but I thought it was pretty great. That's great. I'm with you. By the 30, 30 minutes, get on out of there. But yeah, it was a great movie. All right, Coach, thank you for jumping on. Have a great weekend, Joy.

Thanks. Eric Mangini. Thanks for jumping on with us. Yeah, like 20 minutes. You know, that's all. That's all I'm asking for. You know, we got a lot of stuff we got to fit in the day.

Thanks for hanging out with us today on a Friday. Hope you're enjoying your day. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd alongside Alex Curry. We'll talk to Rick Buecker in a little bit. Get into some of the NBA, an amazing game last night. Sixers and Nets, really fun. We will get into some of the quarterback market next. And we might have some Deshawn Watson news today.

So that's definitely something to pay attention to. And we'll discuss what some of that could mean next on the herd. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, This is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan,

so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Tontons and Wampas, on the Ice Planet Hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The 2022 Big East Tournament continues tonight with the semifinals as Crichton takes on top-seater Providence. The Yukon battles Villanova. It all starts at 6 p.m. Eastern only on FS1 and the Fox Sports app. Welcome back to the herd. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd today.

Thanks to Eric Mangini for joining us there. It kind of agrees with me on Carson Wentz. I feel like it was a soft confirmation that I am on the right track with that. Alex Curry in with me today and we will get to the news in just a moment and talk to Rick Buecker a little bit later. Amazing game in the NBA last night's Nets and Sixers, very feisty atmosphere. I'm here for it. The pettiness, the yelling.

And then, of course, the Nets beat the Sixers after the fans did all that. And listen, I'm sorry, Sixers fans. I know you guys think Eagles fans and Sixers fans think I absolutely hate Philadelphia. I don't. I actually really love Philadelphia. Why? You pick on him? I was a great city.

No, I know, but do you pick on them? Oh, why don't they think you don't like it? No, I just get real. And they just get upset. They weren't very happy with me and calling about the Siriani thing either, which we did, we did say. He did an amazing job this year. We're allowed to be wrong. Occasionally.

It's very rare. It's very rare. So when we do, we can admit it. It's fine. Anyway, the quarterback market is getting a little spicy now. So we just discussed it a little bit with Eric Mangini there. And as a tease before the break, there's some Deshawn Watson news, which I'll break, well, not news yet. But we are going to get some information on the Deshawn Watson situation today.

And I'll explain why in a second. But let's just take a look at where everything is at the current moments. So if you're looking at the teams that, how everything has played out so far, the teams that still don't have a quarter, are the Buccaneers, the Colts now, the Saints, the Seahawks, and the Steelers. That wasn't the case, obviously, with the Colts and Seahawks not too long ago. So these are teams that do not have a starting quarterback still need to make some move of some capacity. I know the Steelers keep talking about Mason Rudolph, but they need to get out of my face with that. There are a few teams, as Eric mentioned, that might upgrade in the Giants, the Panthers and the Texans.

The Giants have said they're going with Daniel Jones. We don't know what's going on with Sam Donald and Carolina, but I believe they're firmly in the quarterback market and the Texans have said they're sticking with Davis Mills, which I don't think is a bad move. There's something there. They have so many holes that giving up any kind of asset for a quarterback doesn't make any sense for the Texans right now. But I do think if something came across the table, that they would go with that. And then there's the teams that are questionable, the Browns, Dolphins. I don't believe the Eagles are really in this category, but there are some questions still about Jalen Hertz. Falcons, Lions, the Titans. And now the Vikings, now obviously Kirk Cousins is very

expensive, but there's been some conversation that maybe he would, you know, they could move him to the Colts. He's extremely expensive. They can't cut him. They can only trade him. So that is a move that's been talking, been being discussed now as well. And then there's the rest of the league that teams that have rookies and teams that have a franchise quarterback. So right now, I think that, yeah, this is, that's everybody else, you know, they're not all in great situations, but they either have rookies or they have a franchise guy. So the guys that are left on the market right now after the current moves are James Winston, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Marriota, Andy Dalton, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Mitchell Tripisky, Jacoby Brissette, and Terrod Taylor. Now in the trade block,

which is obviously Jimmy Garoppel. And now possibly Kirk Cousins. And then you have Tom Brady who I don't think he's coming out of retirement. And then Kyler Murray just put all his Arizona stuff back on his social media. That's how we're following this. So I think that they're at least having conversations and they're going to get something done. But obviously that's been a, that's been an issue the last couple weeks. we're going to discuss later on in the show where I think everyone will end up going or what they should end up doing. But that's a situation right now. Obviously, the league year starts in a few days, so things will start to flesh out a little bit more.

And we're coming up on the draft. There's really two teams in the top 10 in the draft order that aren't going to take a quarterback, and that's the Jets and Jacksonville. Really, almost everyone else could. You could make the argument that it would be an overdraft, but they could still do it. starting with the Lions at number two. Jacksonville, obviously, number one, is not going to take a quarterback.

They're probably going to end up taking a defensive lineman. Lions possibly could. They can move off of Jared Gough next year. Texans, the Jets aren't going to. Giants are a possibility. Panthers, I think, very much might. Giants, again, have the seventh pick. The Falcons, they could.

They could move off of Matt Ryan next year. And if they brought in one of these young guys, who, again, it would be very high. He would be able to sit for a year. if they're raw, develop a little bit, the Seahawks, and then the Jets have the 10th pick, so they're not going to make that move either. But there are essentially three in the top 10 that are three picks that are not going to be quarterbacks, and that's the Jets pick in Jacksonville.

So the Deshawn Watson News, before we get to Alex with the news, there's two steps that could happen today. So the criminal investigation into Deshawn Watson is he's slated for his first deposition into the civil lawsuits that are brought against him, and he's going to plead the fifth in those. But also, the grand jury for his criminal investigation is happening today. So we could get news, at least in some regard,

to Deshaun Watson's future today. Whether there's suspension is going to come soon after that, who knows, but we have to watch and see how those two things develop. Again, it's such an extensive legal situation, we don't really have a final answer on it. But I do think once the criminal investigation, if it does stop and that it doesn't move forward today, we'll start changing things for teams.

And if that's the case, we could get some news on what his future will be and who is actually going to trade for him. I mean, last year, Houston was asking for three first-round picks. Seattle got two first, a second and a fifth, and three players for Russell Wilson. The Niners gave up two first-round picks, swapped a first-round pick, and a third for Trey Lance.

I think three first arm picks is very steep for Deshawn Watson considering the situation, but the quarterback market is pretty bleak as we just went over. So depending on how things play out today with the courts, we could find out if he is going to end up being moved soon. Let's get to Alex Curry with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, on Tuesday, it was reported that Aaron Rogers agreed to terms on a new contract

with the Packers. But Rogers denied reports that he had signed a new deal, saying that he was returning, but the terms and money being reported was incorrect. Three days later, still no sign of Rogers signing. The new contract must be signed by next Wednesday. Otherwise, the Packers will carry a cap charge for Rogers of $46.7 million into the 2022 league year.

So even when there isn't drama, there's still a little bit of drama with Aaron Rogers. He's staying with the Packers, but he's still keeping us on her toes. I'm here for it. I'm not on my toes. I'm not on my toes. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. Aaron. You add your time. All right. I'm reclaiming my time now. I'm uninterested. If you're staying with Green Bay, good for you. That's great. Get your money. Not mad at it. This is what he does for a living. If he wants to make all the monies in the world, that's fine. I don't consider them to be a real Super Bowl contender considering the cap situation that they're in anyway. So since 2011, if you have a quarterback that has a cap hit of 12.4 or more, you're not winning the Super Bowl. That's just, that's a very, big sample size. So I'm not putting them in this conversation anyway. I've seen it. I've watched the movie. I've seen the sequel. I've seen number three. I'm over it. So I get it. I know that there's still some things to follow with him. And do you, do you, boo boo, okay, get your money, but I'm not following this whole. I'm off. I'm out. I'm off the roller coaster. I've had enough.

I ate the popcorn before and now my stomach hurts. I'm done. But does he signed by Wednesday? Yes. He's staying there. He's staying there either way. So the money and, like, the money and like the whole tweet about the, the terms are wrong. Like, okay, we get it. You're controlling the narrative. I understand. So, like, what are we arguing about here? Is he getting $48 million a year instead of 50?

We don't know. We don't know. We're wrong about the terms. It's okay. Whatever. We'll find out soon. I can't. We'll find out soon.

It's a vote mob canceled, $200 million. This is whatever. It's all great. Great for, congratulations, Green Bay. You got your starting quarterback back, your franchise guy. The whole roller coaster thing I'm out on anymore. Well, let's move on. Kevin Durant is known for his cryptic

tweets and burner accounts on social media. And recently he spoke on his podcast about how he thinks the lack of social media help Michael Jordan stay the top of the goat debate. Take a listen. We're so easily accessible now. Like, Jordan was such a mystery back then. You couldn't just open your phone and scroll through his whole life on Instagram or hear or see his thoughts on Twitter. You know, it wasn't like a camera in our face all the time. It was so much coverage on us as players right now. that takes away from somewhat of that mystery of that a lure that brings that comes with that. You know, fans, you know, we're so easy to touch. And, you know, you take us for granted after a while, you know.

So MJ, he dipped in and out of circles. He rarely did interviews. He was kept to himself. And I think that helped towards him just being this godlike figure in our game. I 100% agree that there was no social media during MJ's days helped his image. Remember, he liked to come. go out. He liked to gamble. He liked to play golf on game days. We never saw it. We just heard about it. And to me, it just adds to his legend. But a lot of time, I'm a visual learner. Out of sight.

Out of mine. I didn't see it. I can't judge it. You just kind of heard about it. I 100% agree. Great podcast, by the way. I 100% agree with him. I've had a philosophy about this for years. Yeah. Which is, we'll never have superstars like Michael Jordan, like Michael Jackson. like Madonna, like Prince, ever again. Elvis Presley, we're not going to have stars like that ever again. And the reason for it is access. Yep. When Jordan was playing, you couldn't go online and see Michael Jordan.

You couldn't just turn your TV on at any time and see Michael Jordan. You couldn't go see what Michael Jordan is doing that day on social media. And not just on social media. on sports networks and YouTube shows and Twitter spaces and Instagram lives. And there was not that kind of access podcasts to these players, to these movie stars, to these musicians. You just didn't have that access. When you met them, it was like you are meeting a God.

When you talk to them, it was like it's unbelievable experience. And you could only see them at a certain time on your television. You couldn't record it. Like you had to be there. in a moment. So to me, that kind of illusion and, you know, Godlike obsession doesn't exist anymore. There's so many things you can be famous for. There's so much more access to famous people. They're more likely to talk to you, to go to certain things. You could run into them at the club. Like, you didn't do that before. It just didn't exist. So I think he is absolutely right. There is a mystique with that era of stars that will

not ever happen again. No, I'm with you on that one. Well, let's move on because there is some lingering animosity between Kevin Durant and Joelle and Bede. The two have had heated exchanges in the past and last night they got into it again. The refs let them jaw at one another and one person who was loving the moment was LeBron James. He tweeted during the game. I love that the refs let KD and J.E talk and talk to each other and didn't tech them up. That's dope. Understanding the assignment. Now, there was a lot of heat in the last night's game, as you called it. It wasn't the best of games, but there was a lot of, a lot of emotion surrounding it. They had added security. Ben Simmons was booed by fans in the pregame warmups.

They had yellow ropes surrounding the courts. Ticket sales were the highest they've had in like 10 years. The upper bowl were $200. Lower bowl were averaging at $4,000. And even though it was a blowout game, we're still saying it was a great game today because of all that surrounding it. Yeah, the actual game was a blowout. Yeah.

But it doesn't matter. No. Everything that you just said is a consequence of what? They're being villains. This is what it is. This game was so great for the NBA. LeBron's tweeting about it. Like, this is what it is.

Allow it to have, allow it to sizzle. Just let it rise. Let the rise of the villains live. Everything doesn't have to be lovey-dovey all the time. I'm not saying you need to get unrealistically hostile. I hate when fans insert themselves. the game throwing things, talking crazy or disrespectful to players.

But there should be a healthy level of rivalry and intense emotions in the building between certain teams. It's not going to be all the time. But this is Philadelphia. This is what you expect. Now listen, the best part

of it is, yeah, that smoked like you got blown out after doing all of that for a player that wasn't even on the court. But I'm here for it. You should have to walk sometimes into another arena or another stadium and feel the tension of the fans and feel the gravity of the and the emotion of the night. I loved it. I thought it was just absolutely great. That's Alex Curry with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. We'll talk to Rick Buecker more about last night's very tense environment in Philadelphia with Net Sixers next on The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Mike check. Do you want exclusive insight from the biggest names in the sports game? What's good? This is national champion and former pro baller Chris Johnson. Let me tell you a little bit about my new series, KJ Live.

KJ Live is the only show featuring me going one-on-one with the brightest basketball minds on the planet to get the real. And when I say real, I mean that real. I got legendary Hall of Famer. elite coaches, and the top basketball insiders bringing you a unique perspective on all things hoops culture that you will not find anywhere else. To make your next move, your best move, and tap in with me on KJ Live, wherever you get your podcast from.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. you. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm

bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're

thinking. What the hell does George. but you gotta do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the herd. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd today. It's been a fun show so far. Thank you to Jason Taylor, Hall of Famer for joining. joining us and Eric Manjini. Let's go out to Rick Buecker, Fox Sports NBA analyst.

So we float this theory by you, Rick, based off of last night. So we were talking in the break that I went and saw Batman after the Sixers Nets game last night. It was very dark. And I love villains. I think villains make the story, whatever the story is. I think if you have a very strong, compelling villain

that has interesting human elements, it makes the whole story, the whole movie, the whole experience different. And they have great villains in Batman. And I thought last night in the NBA was a perfect example of when everybody's not getting along, when there's a little bit of tense energy in the building, even in a blowout, it's a must-watch situation. Yeah. Agree, a thousand percent.

And I love the plot twist that we got last night because somehow we went into it. And I think for the better part of this season, Kyrie Irving, for one reason or another, has been the villain. With one turn, with one evening, James Hardin is now the villain. James Hardin is now the guy who needs to prove that all of the things, he's the guy who's operating behind the scenes. We thought he was a good guy, but it turns out he's a double agent.

He's actually, he might be the bad guy. And Kyrie Irving, lo and behold, after a 50 spot against Charlotte, then coming up big in this game and facing down what is now the villain in James Harden, I agree with you in that we need, whether in sports, in any league, in any sport, we need to have that guy that everybody is rooting against. I've just amazed, but how quickly we've got this rivalry here. Normally it takes a certain amount of history, but I think it's where we are with, stars moving around.

But this role reversal where Kyrie Irving now looks like the good guy. And James Harden is the guy on the spot. I don't know that I've ever seen that happen in one single night. Well, also, I don't want to react too much to the night because, as you said, there's a plot twist. They go into Philadelphia

and it's very tense and fans are booing and everyone's trying to come for Ben Simmons who isn't even on the court. And then the nets end up blow. going out the Sixers. But I don't want to overreact to that because I believe that this Ben Simmons move, who, again, is not even playing yet, is for next year. I don't think that the Nets are contenders, even though there is some time left for them to get this rolling.

There's just too much to overcome and too many pieces to fit. I agree with that, although I would say that the whole picture when it comes to the postseason in the NBA is so fractured with every team. Every single team looks vulnerable. I mean, even the Milwaukee Bucks, who I've had from the beginning of the year, as my favorite and I expect them to go back and win another one, without Brooke Lopez, they haven't been quite the same team. They've been kind of scuffling along. I believe they're just waiting until the postseason gets here, but still, they haven't looked like leaders day in and day out. And I could say that for every single team.

So I agree with you in terms of the Brooklyn that's having a longer runway, the idea that, hey, if we don't get it this year, Ben Simmons isn't going anywhere. Kyrie Irving isn't going anywhere. Like we can still build this and we can be better next season. But that said, it's wide open. So why not see how far you can get? And why not dismiss the idea that they could fall into winning a championship? I mean, honestly, did anybody at the beginning of last season have the Phoenix Suns going all the way to the finals?

I don't think so. And yet circumstances, injuries, all of a sudden they find themselves in the finals and having a shot at it. So I believe that the Brooklyn Nets are not looking at this as the B. and all in terms of winning it this year. I agree with you there. But I also don't believe that they completely dismiss based on what they have. Who better than us to take a run at it? No, I agree with you with everything being wide open.

I've felt this way, started to feel this way a couple weeks ago at the All-Star break, where very rarely in the NBA, because of how star-driven it is and, you know, this movement to super teams or whatever, which I think is kind of exaggerated. But at the beginning of the season, we feel like we know who's going to be there at the end based off of the talent that is on the roster. This is a unique year, kind of similar to the NFL this year, where there's a lot of parity and you don't usually have that in the NBA. there's probably seven teams that if I told you right now, they're going to win a championship, you couldn't really be outraged about it. And we don't normally have that in the NBA. I agree.

And honestly, it's why from the beginning of the year, I had the sons and the bucks doing it all over again because of the value of the experience of getting there and looking at those two teams and the age of their stars and the fact that I didn't think they were going to go anywhere. I didn't think they would be any worse than they were a year ago. And I don't know what I'm going to get from the four or five other teams that I could say are title contenders. And that essentially was the main reason that I have the bucks and the suns going back there and still have the bucks and the suns going back there.

But we've got Chris Paul missing. If Chris Paul doesn't come back, it isn't the same Chris Paul that he was prior to the injury, then that changes the suns dramatically. And I do believe that the bucks are compromised if they don't have Brooke Lopez. The size question is going to be a question as far as their ability, especially on defense, to defend their title. Rick Buecker on the Herb with us, Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd. So obviously, it's the Lakers. We're here in Los Angeles.

This is what it is. Steph Curry came out and defended Russell Westbrook. the family stuff aside, no one is justifying what's happening to his family. It is egregious, it's wrong. If you're doing that, you're ridiculous. There's no excuse for it whatsoever.

That aside, taking that out of it because no one's excusing that. The reaction that has come for Russell Westbrook this year to me is a direct result of, one, not playing well, that's number one. The compensation that he is getting to not play well. the effect that he has clearly had on the court

to a team that last year wasn't great but certainly wasn't dysfunctional and the year before that won a championship. But also animosity towards the media and towards fans whilst all of those other things being in place. So I do think fans have a right to be upset but I also think having just a drop, just a tiny little couple drops of accountability

goes a long way in a situation that is very toxic. I agree. You know, shows don't work very well, Joy, when the people on them agree on everything. I can't argue with anything that you said. Russ has always been combative. And that's the hardest part for me to kind of reconcile is now he's saying, you guys are being mean to me. That you can't be mean to me. I'm like, Russ, you've mocked and taunted a part. Your entire career. You've mocked and taunted the media. Your entire career. You've always been that guy that has a chip on his shoulder and is going at everybody demonstrably. So now you're being called names and people are booing you and you're like, hey, hey, hey, hey, that's too much. I agree with you with the family stuff. But Joy, I'm certain you've experienced this. Like the stuff that if you have any present, in the public eye, the stuff that people are willing to say and say they're going to do to you on social media, there are no boundaries on that. It's astonishing how bad it can get. But it comes with being in the public eye and everybody understands that. So here's the, to boil down why

Russell is where he is and there's such hatred for him at this point. And I don't think that's too harsh of a word. Is because of the expectation. An expectation is just a resentment waiting to happen. And there was massive expectation put out there by Russell, put out there by LeBron, put out there by the Lakers. We're putting these three stars together, actually four or five stars together,

four all-time greats, and we're going to go win another championship. And they haven't come close to that. And Russell is bearing the brunt of that. I have defended him because he's only playing this way we've always seen him play. But this other stuff is completely different. Well, thanks for joining us, Rick.

It's fine if we agree on everything. That's fine. It's all good. Appreciate you jumping on with us. Every now and then. Yeah, it's all good. Listen, it just means we're right, you know? We can just tell each other how right we are. Thanks for jumping on, Rick.

We'll be back on the herd, Joy Taylor, in for Colin Coward, and discuss some new villains in the NBA and how it is great for the league. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not. not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the Look Back at a Podcast. That was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey,

or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford,

and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.