The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 2 - What's next for the Suns?

Episode Date: May 10, 2024

Longtime NBA reporter Rachel Nichols joins the show in studio to tell Colin what's next for the Suns after firing head coach Frank Vogel after only one season Caitlin Clark is a next level talent who generates a ton of moneySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's the herd wherever you may be, and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. Rachel Nichols covered the NBA since 93. Friend of the show, FS1 is joining us. I just found out. So I did something last night that I don't do a lot of. But Rachel, I'm not going to go too far into the family history here, but she is, her brother's a big shot in Los Angeles.

in the culinary industry, which is, I have at least been to every one of his restaurants once, and they're all amazing. That's very kind. This is great. This means that finally I can hook you up with something, as opposed to usually where you're spreading the red carpet for all of us. Well, the restaurant group he's with is phenomenal. But it was, you know, you have to travel a lot. And I try to eat right, but it's hard.

And so last night I went with the kids. So what exactly did you? What did you in? What part of the meal did you in? Well, instead of just ordering like an entree, the kids all wanted like 12 different plates and shareable. And I've discovered that doesn't work for my body. No. I can't do key lime pie in front of ribs and the noodles and rice and then a cocktail.

And I woke up this morning and I'm like, I felt like they went sparring last night. My body, and the food was phenomenal. I don't want to give away anything, but I just say the food was phenomenal, but I have found I'm a very simple man intellectually, emotionally, and now in a culinary fashion, I need this, this, and I'm out. All right, all right. So I won't bring you keelaine pie next week when I come on again. Probably not best for me.

Okay. So first of all, the sons are going to hire Mike Boodenholzer. That's the report. What went wrong with Vogel? I had gotten a source last night that said, you know, some of the players, it's hard. You didn't get all buy-in. You have three stars. You got to get

buy-in from at least two. Is that what you're hearing? Sure, but I mean, no losing team has buy-in from everyone. That's what happens, right? Winning papers over everything, losing shows all the seams. To me, this is a bit of moving deck chairs around. I'm not going to

call the Suns the Titanic. I would not go that far. But there is a little bit of like, we can't really do anything else. They have one draft, one first-round draft, pick for the next six years, just one, this coming year, and this summer, and that's it. So they don't have roster flexibility. They've got these three huge contracts. They don't really have the ability to make a lot of changes to the supporting cast.

You're not going to fire the owner that just came in and is the one behind all these changes. And it's not really fair to fire the front office because James Jones didn't make those trays. I mean, he physically made them and he facilitated them, but it was at the owner's directive. So really the only guy to make a change is in the coach's seat. I do not think Frank Vogel deserved to be fired. This is a championship coach, and I think it's going to be a mistake. But then again, Mike Booneholzer is a very good coach.

I just don't see him being able to do more than Frank Vogel did in this situation. If the sons have better health next year, that will certainly help them. So that's something they can do without having to make any roster changes. But they're still stuck with an extremely top-heavy team and at least one aging superstar. We say this all the time, is that, you know, people, want to hold you to a level of perfection, NFL general managers who are great miss all the time. And what you can't do is double down on wrong. The Giants on Daniel Jones, probably a reach. Don't double down on it. I think you'd be doubling down here. They don't have a point guard.

The Beale thing's not working. I think you can get a ton for Booker. Draft picks, Capital. Get younger around Kevin Durant Beal. You can't move Beal as contract. To me, this feels a little New York, giant where it's, yeah, the construction doesn't work. Let's fire the coach and double down on it. I don't think this team, when I watch Minnesota play and OKC play, and Dallas playing better than you think, and Denver, this doesn't feel like a championship team. I, to me, if you're going to make a big move, it's Kevin Durant, who I would move if I were in that front office. And I'm sure that Kevin doesn't want to be moved again after all of the moving around he's done and the criticism he gets for that.

But Devin Booker is still a star in the prime of his career. And I'm not sure you're getting anyone better than him. I'm not sure you're going to develop anyone better than Devin Booker has already developed into. So why not keep him and then move some of the other big, big pieces around? And unfortunately, Bradley Beale, as you point out, has a no trade clause. It's not working either. And no real trade value right now and for what you get for him. And so I think if you are going to make a huge move, if I were in the front office, it would be Kevin Durant.

but I don't anticipate them doing that. They've really signaled that they're going to stay with those three guys and see what else they can do. And I guess one of those things is changing the voice in the locker room. And if they have better health, Mike Boodenholzer will look like a genius. But I don't expect them to win a championship with this roster that's so top-heavy. So if you're the New York Knicks, there are two avenues that are interesting.

First of all, Boston looks infinitely, if not beatable, you can compete with them. Yes. And we didn't think that. don't look invincible. That's right. And the other thing is the East is going to get better next year. Dame and Yannis should be healthy. Philadelphia has got a ton of cap room and draft picks.

Boston will still be good. Orlando may add a piece. So you can look at the Knicks and go, this is the beginning. Or you can say the East is going to get better. It's really weak this year. So I think they're fascinating, Rachel, because there is almost a collegiate feel to them. There is a culture.

We talk heat culture. Yeah. But it's Tibbs culture. You got to be careful who you bring in. Yes. Now, Booker, I think, works, but Phoenix doesn't want to move him. Durant, I'm not sure. What do you make of the Knicks going?

We know they're competitive now. We don't think they're a title team. Now they're all beat up. I was going to say, it's hard right now because there's just so many guys hurt. But they're the talk of the league. Oh, they're thrilling to watch. I mean, literally thrilling to watch play. And I don't care who you are, unless you're a fan of the other team that's currently playing them.

That's right. You're having fun watching this next team. Great watch. Because they're not only winning, they're so scrappy. They're playing basketball the way you want people to play basketball. They're tough as nails. They're rebounding. You know, Josh Hart has played more minutes in playoff games than any other player in 45 years.

That's the stat. It's been 45 years since the merger. And he's doubled his numbers. And by the way, it's probably before that, too, but I'm just going since the APA merger. No one else has played more per game than he has. So look, you love to watch them play, but you do think that they need deeper. They need a little bit more. If they just got their players back, by the way, I think that they could make a run to the finals this year, right?

If they had Julius Randall, if they had Ogen and O.G. and Nobi, who looks like we're not going to see him in the next game. You know, if they had full health, I would put them up against anyone in the game. the Eastern Conference this year. But they will have room to make some moves, unlike the Suns. They're not hamstrung. And it is interesting to see who's going to go. I think that they would be better off making a smaller move, like Demard de Rosen has been bandied about, right?

Doesn't need the ball in his hands a lot. Doesn't need the ball, as opposed to bringing in some big flashy player. Now, for Kevin Durant's story, I always thought that Kevin Durant should have gone to the Knicks instead of the Nets. So for me, watching Kevin Durant, I'd like to see him kind of. write that wrong. Great story. But I don't know if that's what's best for New York.

I just think that that would be great for Kevin Durant's story. I do know that Kevin Durant just wants to play basketball. And that is the common denominator in that Knicks locker room. And it will be interesting to see not only who they bring in this summer, but where they end up this time in this series, I still don't know what's going to happen in this Pacer's Nick series. The Pacers keep seeming like they're being handed health advantages. And yet, they're not coming through when it counts. It was so crazy to me that Rick Carlisle.

went after refs and small markets when Brunson and OG were hurt, Randall Mitchell Robinson gone, it was there for the taking, and that was the easy win of the first two. Look, look, I do think that some calls have gone against the Pacers more so than the Knicks in the first couple of games.

They have. I mean, you can just look at the NBA's own final two-minute report, those kinds of things, but that is never the reason that you win or lose playoff games in the aggregate. Maybe one game somewhere, one time with one bad call in the final few minutes. that earlier this playoffs but overall when you're talking about there's 78

calls or whatever it was that's not that's not what makes the difference over a course of a series what makes the difference is if you take advantage of your opportunities and we've gonna have to see the Pacers buckle down and do that at home otherwise they're cooked the the reality with American sports is the NFL is pushing its product globally but gets its employees domestically whereas hockey baseball and the NBA especially basketball and increasingly, he's becoming European-based. Now, it's good for the talent and skill level.

Hockey's never been faster. Baseball's never been deeper. Basketball's never had seven-footers all hitting threes. But it's not always great in terms of domestic ratings. So the NBA is going to get their money. It's got stars. It's fast-paced. Young people like it, apparel company.

It's going to get its money. But I do think it's need to face. I think Aunt Edwards, and I didn't think this a year, ago. I think he, I think his game is more refined. I think his ability to go to KD and say, trash talk just enough.

I wonder if NBA's pretty good about fun. They didn't do it with the honest. They put his playoff games on NBA TV. It does feel like we're watching the next face. And this is like the opening chapter in 20 years ago.

Remember the Denver series. Absolutely, man. Is that what you see? Oh, yeah. I mean, like, He's got the charisma off the charts, right? And the way he plays is so engaging. He brings you in every time he goes up to the basket. He's got no fear. He's just an exciting player to watch.

I think he's got the number one selling shoe in America. The commercials are good. I mean, it's a lot of that. We make these early Michael Jordan comparisons. And he said the other day, I can never have the career of Jordan. And I think that is correct. Yes. I think, to your point about the international game, it is a different, deeper league.

No question. You look at the number of guys. coming from other countries who are winning MVP, who are in the MVP race. Shake-Gilders Alexander, by the way, is from Canada. Even he's not American. So, by the way, you are getting just a deeper pool of talent to compete with. It's not the league where MJ 1-6. It's not the league even where Kobe won 5.

And so I don't think anyone can have that career again. But we are seeing a guy who looks like Michael Jordan looked in his early years. No question. That is undeniable. And it's not just on the court, although it is on the court. It's everything else that you're talking about. He is a star in the old-fashioned sense. And it's really exciting to watch.

We'll see. You know, I will say this. Here's the other advantage. Michael, it took a while to get the right coach. It feels like Aunt has his. Also, the Celtics and the Pistons were living, breathing dynasties. There is no one in the West. We thought Denver could be it.

And it looks like Denver is, you know, a Raptor story. closer to a Raptor's story than a Warriors Dynasty. I think they're better than that. But they could be a one and done or maybe a two-titled team. So that's the advantage. It took Jordan, you know, he spent a lot in college, and then it was, I mean, you forget when you

watch the documentary. It is a long road. Yes. There's a lot of getting tackled by the pistons. So the advantage this kid has is, oh, he could be good. Like if he won this year, wow, now you're ahead of Michael. 100%. Significantly ahead. And by the way, if I were any of these young

players, if I was Luca, if I was Aunt, I would get my winning in now because I am still going to sit here in this chair every week and tell you, I think that Victor Webbenyama is coming. I think he is going to end up, again, health injuries, we don't know what happens, but if all goes as expected, a top 5,

10 player of all time. And so I would get my titles in now, and I think that Aunt Edwards certainly has a chance to do that. He's got a great team around him too, and he's got the advantage of that, and we can't forget that. He's got a coach that he really responds to. He's got Carl Anthony Towns. He's got an upcoming, you know, a four-time defensive player of the year

in Rudy Gobert. I mean, the whole concept, he's got a great bench. He's got Mike Conley, who's been one of the best playoff performers and just teammates and leaders that we've had in the last two decades. So he's got every advantage, and then he's taking advantage. And I think that those two things combine is we're seeing a winner. This kid's a winner. Finally, my opening rant about an hour and a half ago was that we may be in an era in the NBA, which I grew up with the 70s, Sonics, Blazers, Warriors. They were called the bullets back then. Elvin Hayes, West Unsold, Kevin Grevy.

The teams were very good. They weren't great. Yeah. And I think we're staring at a bunch of very goods. I think all of us felt like Boston could be the one great. And then I watched them continually get whacked at home. They have a 500 home. That's historically bizarre.

Yeah. As a dominant team, they're 500 at home. all dynasties roll at home and and I think you know what in an era of good they're very good

but losses like last night are adding up Rachel and I'm like maybe we have put them at about to be great and maybe they have two players that are closer to Pippin than Kobe and Michael

and they're going to win a title but have we gone like we do with the Cowboys every year we've ratcheted up this when they're just very good I mean I'm very curious your take on the mental aspect of this team because you have seen it and it's not just in basketball, right? So you've watched it across sports teams that have almost gotten there and not and what that does to you.

Because the Boston Celtics, let's not forget, have made the conference finals five of the last seven years. That's spectacular. Yes. I mean, that's incredible. Think about the franchises around the NBA who've had so much hope and promise and thunder and noise and media attention and haven't been able to match anywhere near that. However, they haven't been able to get it done. They only advanced to the finals once out of all those times, and they completely fell apart at the end of that end of that end of the finals series. And really had control of the series through about three games and fell apart.

Right. So what mental effect does that have on the team? And what effect does it have on the fans? I mean, Jason Tatum got up on the podium after last night's game. And he goes, I know we're expected to be perfect or some version of that. And I'm sure it feels that way to him because here they are a team that's made the conference finals five the last seven years. And every time they lose the game, people, oh, see, the Celtics aren't for real. but the problem is when you don't get the ultimate goal done,

even the middle part starts to feel sometimes a little bit squishy. And I think they are feeling the loss of Chris Depp's Porzingis. Evan Mobley took advantage of that last night. Donovan Mitchell, who is a star, had a fantastic second half. And they're going to have to work for it in this series because Chris Deppes is not expected to be back. I mean, that's what we're seeing in the Denver series, too, by the way. I think that Nicolioch does have the medal to lead Denver to be a dynasty, except for he's got to have someone like Murray next to him, and Murray is clearly hurt.

So is Chris Staps being hurt in this Celtic series? Is that what is going to do the Boston in? Or are they going to be able to get through here and maybe get him back in the conference finals if they get there again? Let's button it up with this. So Byron Scott is viewed as part of the Laker family. He coached, he played. It's very much a small business. Jeannie runs like a small business.

And if you're family, you're family. Norm Nixon's part of it. worthy, I mean, Kobe's agent became GM. That's what the Lakers are. And Byron Scott says, just make LeBron the coach. I'm like, well, that's a family member. Now, it may be a second cousin. But it's a family member.

Well, former coach, too, as you said. He's been in that job. What did you make of that comment? Look, you know, an offhanded comment, I would say. We haven't seen that in the NBA in quite some time. We have seen it before. Lenny Wilkins or Bill Russell? Yeah, Bill Russell. So there you go. Um, like, to me, the Lakers problem was also not a coaching problem.

I put that in the same Frank Vogel camp. Now, if you lose both stars, both LeBron James and Anthony Davis made it clear that that Dharvanham had lost them. And then it is hard to bring him back. Yeah. However, the Lakers have had six coaches in 13 years. And my hope with whoever they do bring in next is that they back him for the long haul, because there will always be bumps in the road.

There will be always times when your stars don't completely buy him. in to what you were doing it's natural players get frustrated high talented players who know what they can accomplish get frustrated and they should and you need not only a guy who can bring it all together but an organization who backs him and my hope is that whoever they find for this job is someone that the organization feels it can stand behind so that even in those rough moments sometimes you need the front office to say to the star hey work it out because this guy's here and we think that he's doing an okay job we're gonna

do that we don't think he's the problem well they but That's not, as the Lakers are set up, which is kind of how you end up with six coaches in 13 years. And I do wonder if they can bring someone in who is good enough to merit that from the front office. Because I do think stability. Now they're in another position where they've got to find someone who, I don't think you want a first-time head coach in that situation. And the other guys are getting snapped off the board. You know, Jason Kidd has to write LeBron a thank you note because he just got a contract extension. That was pretty much a result of the fact that the Lakers are looking.

for another coach. Tyloo is going to get a very hefty contract extension that will be in part because, you know, the amount of it, not that he's getting it, but the amount of it will come down to the fact that the Lakers are sitting there, definitely coveting him as well. So who are you getting to fill that job who is going to give you something that Dharvanham didn't give you? And I'm curious who it's going to be. I don't know, I can't pick a name out there and say, I think Mark Jackson is interesting, I think Scotty Brooks is interesting, but I do wonder who it is, who they think is interesting. And then they can really stand behind because there will be more ups and downs.

That's just what's going to happen. Well, the Lakers roster construction is Rui and DeLo can be inconsistent, and then you get inconsistent performance because you have inconsistent players, and Darvin gets blamed. Thanks for carrying me today. Rachel Nichols. So I had a cigar flu game on Tuesday that Jason had to carry me. Okay.

So this is the key lime pie game? This is the key lime pie. Most people, it's a night out in the town, key lime pie and half a cigar. knocks me out. There you go. I'm a weak man. Now we know. Now we know. Now we know. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHard radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform. became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away,

such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got?

to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally.

But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tomorrow on Fox, it's the game of the year in the U.FL as the 5-1 St. Louis Battlehawks. Take on the undefeated. Birmingham and Stallions. It all kicks off tomorrow at 4 Eastern on Fox. Rating's a big done for that. You see that? Not that America pays much attention. We pay attention to that stuff. I mean, pretty good. Jay Mack with the news.

No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Lots of breaking news in the NFL on a Friday. It was just announced, Cowherd. The Bears have named Caleb Williams' QB1. Matt Iberfus took to the podium and said, No conversation. He is the starter. Here's Iber Fus talking about Caleb Williams starting for the Bears. Obviously, you have goals that you set for yourself right in a moment. Also, you have goals on the future.

So that's important. But also understanding the moment that we're in and being in that moment is really important. I would say taking a step at a time, handling it, handling it, the way it needs to be handled. And being a professional is really important. So all of those go in one. And so I would definitely say, for sure, being in the moment, like I said, taking one step at a time.

Caleb Williams, hat forwards. Looking good, looking good. Looking leadery. Like a franchise quarterback to me. Looking leadery, is that a thing? I would call it quarterbackial. I like my presidents to be presidential, my quarterbacks to be quarterback eel. And I think he looks the part to turn your life around.

You're going to start with that hat getting turned around. Well, wait a minute. He hadn't shaved there. Did you notice a little scruffiness going on? That doesn't matter, okay. Further, Further, for the record, on game day, I don't want my guys clean-shaven.

They're going to battle. I don't want a razor in the facility three days before. I want guys that look like they just came out of the forest carrying timber. I don't even care if they bathe. Like two days before, I would say showers don't work, no razors in the facility. I want Wolverines walking out onto the field. hats totally different

you're always I will say I got more texts from friends about the hats backwards thing than basically any topic you've ranted on in the last few months Andrew Luck neck beard I supported it he looked like a civil war captain

you know there's like that thing on the arm I think I honestly think that like when I go away if I'm going to go do something that's physical like go work out I don't shower I don't shave on the weekends I'm all scruffy you're going to go be physical

you're going to look the part going to feel emotionally the part I like my my players to be a little scruffy going into a game going into hockey guys I'm a clean-shaven hockey guy I want you to look like you haven't you haven't seen a blade outside of the hockey stick in a month

that's how I view the world some week for you cowherd boy he's on fire maybe Scott Van Pelt will take another shot that was hurtful that really was no good Well, let's move on. The Eagles hired Kellyn Moore to be their new offensive coordinator. He's got a new scheme he's installing, and he more talk to reporters about what things will look like in Philly next season.

I think everyone's got their different flavor from a systematic approach. I think our real focus here, as we've gone through this process, is we've got a lot of good going on, and we can't lose the good and the reps that Jalen and AJ have developed and Dallas has developed, this offensive line have developed, and how can we build off of those things? and really connect the whole thing. And so that's been a really fun process.

You know, there'll be tweaks, there'll be changes. Everything's constantly evolving. That's part of this whole off-season program. We like them. Do we? Yeah. You don't like him? When he was in Dallas, he was the next big thing,

according to Jerry Jones. Then he goes to the Chargers. We bought in for that hook line and sinker. Well, first of all, everything with the Chargers. Everything went down. Really good players had average years. Okay. A coach, they always say in baseball, a manager, a good manager gives you four wins.

They can ruin a locker room. They're not going to help that much. But in an NFL locker room, if you don't get the coach right, it can sink everything. I mean, go look at Michigan football pre-harbaugh. Michigan football, swaths of empty stands. Harbaugh eventually, Natty. So it's, and when you get these great, I mean, Alabama, Nick Saban resurrected it. It was a mess.

So coaching in football That's the question with Philadelphia Siriani. Do you buy them or not? Yeah. I think it's TBD on more for me. We'll see. The one thing is he had a lot of familiarity in the division when he was in Dallas for so many years.

Now there's been some turnover among teams defensively, but I think more will probably be fine. I think the Eagles do have some interesting questions, Colin. I mean, gutting the staff when they started 10-1 I think the head coach, you know, he's probably on the hot scene. Is that safe to say? You don't fire the coordinators, bring in new ones. So momentum's a real thing.

So they had a great system and a great staff. They replaced it. And that momentum carried him to a hot start for three months. And then they fell apart. You see this all the time in college football, where they get the loyal, long-time assistant takes over for the legendary coach. And for like two years, fans are like, hey, nothing's new. and then by like the end of year two,

they get routed once or twice. Year three, the wheels come off. And so with Philadelphia, a lot of it was, they didn't get it right with Hertz until Shane Steichen took over the play calls. They took Steichen's great momentum for about three months for the next season,

but in the end they fell apart. So, I mean, I think, I say this. I don't know what Jalen Hertz is without Shane Steichen, because the proof so far is not pretty. It's a lot of turnovers. an average. That's why this year is so I think he's it. I mean, I'm 70, 30,

yeah, but it is interesting. There's some doubt. Remember, after the Super Bowl, it was like Jalen Hertz is the guy. Remember, I'm not taking a call on him. I like so much about him off the field. The podium stuff, the leadership. But I do look and think, what if he starts slowly? I don't know. I mean, listen,

let this be a lesson. You can look smart Siriani bringing in Shane Steichen. But when you get in a great, great number two, you guys. gotta hold on to him like grim death he lost stuyken and lost a lot i mean listen well stuyken was not he was going to get a head coaching joke there's a little parallel to this show right here i could be your shane stifling that's that's right and you might lose me somewhere else that's a good point you know and all of a sudden this thing looks good for a month or two then you're on the hot seat then crashes

then i got the owner on me don't go anywhere jac mack uh we'll see uh next final story Jaylen Brunson and the Villanova Nix. They've been the best story of the NBA postseason. Apologies to the wolves. They're going to look to extend their series lead tonight. It's going to be very tough in Indy. They're huge dogs. In a podcast appearance,

former Nova coach Jay Wright talked about his former players and revealed he did not expect a star power from Brunson. I didn't think he'd be this good. I thought he would be a point guard on an NBA championship team because he's such a winner. I thought he would get with a Luca Donchich.

Like I thought that was a great situation for him. I thought he'd get with a Luca Donchich and lead a team to an NBA playoff. Maybe a more talented player might be the leading score, but he would be the leader. And when that talented player got hurt sometimes

and he needed to score, he'd score. That's what I thought his NBA career would be. So, you know, everybody wants to tell you they know. Nobody in the world knows more about Jalen Brunson, other than Jalen Brunson than J. Wright. Jay Wright's also a top five college basketball coach, probably of my adult life. So I'm every day at practice, and Jay Wright didn't know. So everybody on the Internet's a genius, especially all the anonymous guys.

Nobody knows. that just goes to show you Jay Wright was like yeah I thought he was a really good player I think he's going to be this so you just don't know what's in somebody's soul their heart the hard work you just don't know this stuff is inexact

I talk I have several friends that are executives in the NFL and they're like man all the measurables all the traits and then you just get a guy and he just doesn't love it that's been the knock by the way on Trevor Lawrence and Jacksonville

yes is that what I've heard from people I trust is he's not defined by football much like Andrew Locke he'll probably retire fairly early he really really likes playing football he really really good at it but does he doesn't have that

like Breeze Brady obsessed and by the way he's probably a better human for that yeah but I've heard that not even a criticism people just say you know I don't know if he lives for it Andrew Luck didn't Andrew Luck's like I I got my book club my kids

my wife, I'm out, and I want my health. I totally respect that. But it is, all this stuff about talent evaluation. Difficult. You just, it's, there's a reason they call it an inexact science. Even doctors have a doctor practice. Doctors don't know everything. You find stuff out all the time.

You're going to watch AI through the rest of our lives. One of the, the amazing thing about AI is stuff we haven't seen yet. Is it what it's going to do to medicine in the world? it's going to solve so many cancers, cure so many cancers, because they can do so much, so much faster than our research can. That's what's great about AI, ending disease, building up walls for things that, you know, ended people's lives. But it's this stuff, this talent evaluation is so hard.

Would you say there's a whiff, and I'm just saying a whiff, of Steph Curry in the Brunson story, under size guard whose dad played in the NBA, people thought, oh, he's a really nice college player. Well, we'll see what he can do in the pros. And he is just hitting the league like a comet final. Remember, it took Curry like a few years. There is some of this because he was doubted. Now, Curry got drafted higher.

But Dallas doubted his greatness. And Steph Curry very early. I think it was Monta Ellis. Monta Ellis, yep. The Warriors moved off a much more athletic player, Montaels. Warrior fans did not like the move. So there was absolute doubt in the building, or maybe out of the building, about Steph Curry. So I think that I don't think, I mean, I don't see him being Steph Curry, but you start scoring 40, 40, 40, 40, 40.

And everybody in the building knows you're the offense. Pretty impressive. And just to be clear, if they lose this series to the Pacers, and they might, Anerobie is out tonight, and it doesn't sound like he's going to be able to go in game four Sunday. Even if they lose a series, it does not diminish what Brunson and the Villanova Knicks of accomplishments. Because they are clearly here, and they're going to be around for the next few years in the East, challenging Boston, probably, Colin, over anyone else. It does.

It does. When you watch Boston, they don't look, as Rachel said, they don't look as invincible as we thought two months ago. They were a three-point machine. They're either going to hit or miss. And in the playoffs, and when they don't hit, it's kind of bleak. I'll just say I would right now buy Boston and then the Knicks next three years over the Sixers. I know everybody loves Embed and Cap's face.

I think the interesting team, and you're probably right. I keep your eye on Orlando. We'll see. The Boncaro looks like he's a year away from... He's a little 21. Yeah, so I think they've got Suggs going right. If they could land like a Paul George kind of player. It'd be nice.

But, you know, we were talking with Rachel during the break about a landing spot for Paul George. We'll save that for next week. That was interesting, was it not? I wish I had had it today for headlines. I have him go. somewhere else. That's a

called a tease, by the way. Third hour. In the industry. In the industry. My Shane Steichen, nailed it. Jay back with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Heard Lye News. See that Caitlin Clark crowd? Exhibition. Exhibition. Is she going to outdraw the Pacers next year? By the way, we have secured as a family tickets to Caitlin Clark versus the sparks out here in L.A. It's been moved to crypto now.

Tickets went on sale. I think they sold out in like under two hours. What if they outdraw the Pacers? Pacers' attendance has never been great. TV ratings locally aren't great. Did a bigger story than the Pacers. Sorry. Even if the Pacers beat the Knicks, I think Caitlin Clark's a bigger story.

Next year? I mean, the season starts Tuesday. Yeah. By the way, for fun, Caitlin Clark to win the MVP in the league as a rookie. It would be unfathomable. She's got the third highest odds, Colin. Wow. It's fun.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlie. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches. We talk to players. We tell you stories.

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Very rarely, it may only happen a couple times, three times a decade, like next generation hype. And I know there was a president who said fake news, most of the time. if we proclaim in the media, this is next generation stuff. And I'm not talking your random number one pick in the NBA draft. Wemby came in, many saying the best prospect ever, he more than delivered. LeBron, more than delivered. Bryce Harper delivered. Connor McDavid, delivered.

Andrew Luck actually delivered. If you go back and look at this before he got hurt, he went 11 and 5, 11 and 5, 11, and 5 with an awful roster. Tom Brady couldn't do that. I don't think Mahomes could do that. That roster was bad. He got to an AFC championship with a bad roster. The media doesn't miss on the all-time stuff.

I can't think of the last one. Tiger hit. LeBron hit. Lionel Messi was a Child Prodigy hit. Sidney Crosby and Hockey hit. Serena hit. Steven Strassberg was a World Series MVP. Again, his arm fell apart.

So it's not that he couldn't play. And I'm not talking just, you know, regular number one pick i think katelyn clark is next level uh i think caleb williams is being called like most talented five tool guy in a long time so i mean last night in a thursday night preseason game they got 13 000 so here's where she's not busting merch sales ticket sales tv rating she's an absolute home run and uh she didn't play particularly well last night she's a shooter she in an off night. But generally speaking, it's hard to find, again, don't confuse, you know, Andrew Luck with your typical number one draft pick. Caleb Williams, I think, rises. We've been

talking about him for a year. Tiger Woods at 12, 13, 14 years old. Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby. Yeah, here's Caitlin after last night's home debut. This is a preseason game on a Thursday night, and there's 13,000 people. people here. Like, I think that just shows, you know, what it's going to be like for us all season and it's going to help us. You know, these are going to be games at home that you're going to need to win. So I'm excited for our home opener. I think it's going to be a packed house, obviously, versus a really great team. And yeah, it's pretty incredible. 13,000 at a, at a preseason game is pretty unheard of. Yeah, that's, I do wonder, the Indiana Pacers average

about 16,000. They've never had good home TV ratings or TV ratings locally and attendance they've always been near the bottom of the league. I think they're going to outdraw. I think a WNBA team in the same town, same city, will outdraw the NBA team. I absolutely believe that. And it's not like Indiana should be disbanded. Like they're a playoff team.

And they've got some good players. They're fun to watch. Not as fun as the Knicks, but they're fun to watch. So it's really something. I mean, we're getting into territory. It's like, whoa. Do you think people will think that's a hot take, Colin? I don't know.

I think it, I mean, if you're getting 13,000, the season doesn't even start. When's the last NBA exhibition that Indiana hosted that got 13,000? That seems like a lot for any NBA team. Do the nuggets get 13,000 for a preseason NBA game? They have like a five, six, eight game preseason, whatever. That seems like a lot. Well, you saw the news this week about the chartered flights for the WNBA.

They haven't had those, and now they have them. The NBA literally spent twice as much on a two-year deal on chartered flights. than they do for the entire league's payroll. So I think it's smart. They're figuring it out. But the WNBA was not a cash cow. People need to understand that. It was not a profitable product.

I don't know if it is now. Well, it's going to be thanks to Caitlin Clark. That's my guess. Within a couple of years, don't you think? Well, yeah, we've talked about the growth of women's basketball. I would call it the improvement of women's basketball is undeniable. The growth was steady. This is not growth.

This is an explosion. This is what the WNBA needed this. They were playing in some second tier arenas. It's like, no, no, now they're going to play in bigger arenas. And I always felt golf had Greg Norman, but I felt like as Jack Nicholas aged, you know, golf was kind of an old guy's sport. I always felt that. And all of a sudden, Tiger came around. I wasn't somebody, I had watched Jack and Arnie a little bit.

I liked Greg Norman, but I wasn't, golf didn't get me to a TV much. And here comes Tiger. and with Phil Mickelson on his side, and it just changed it. It changed my TV viewing habits. I will watch a WNBA. I haven't watched five. But if it's on, I may not race home,

but if it's on, I'd sit there for an hour and watch it. Like, that's, you went to Taylor Swift concerts. Oh, my gosh, greatest thing ever. And listen, I don't want to get too excited, but my wife literally during the commercial break was like, oh, if we are in Europe this week, Taylor Swift's at a concert, what do you think about going?

And I'm like, guys, we already saw Taylor Swift here in America. Why do we need to see her again? And you get one of those blank stares. Like, are you really asking what we need to see another Taylor Swift concert? Same deal with Caitlin Clark. We saw her in the tournament, Colin. And now we want more. We want to see her again.

If you go back and look at the ratings in the women's tournament, didn't she get like, was it 16 million views? If you take out the NFL, that crushes everything. World Series, NBA Finals crushes it. that's an insane number for a sport that's got a dynasty that never loses I mean it's like it's not like Iowa had a big brand in college basketball Yukon has a huge brand for a while

Tennessee women's basketball huge brand Stanford women's basketball you're like no it's Iowa you could make an argument that her going to Indiana is better than say going to the New York team or the L.A. team I think it is it fits her brand 18.7 million people watch the women's college basketball final. I know people don't care about TV ratings.

That's insane. That's what a first round NFL playoff game gets. She's a big deal. You can put the Buffalo, I don't know, put the Buffalo bills on against, you know, whoever the Titans. That was on Peacock. No, I'm just kidding. 19 million people.

What? I mean, the NBA finals will get like 9 million. Well, depending. I mean, if it's Minnesota. versus you may get six Boston I don't know no I mean if you got if you got Boston but New York would get a bigger number if you got Boston

against Minnesota O KC you're probably getting eight and a half so you're getting hey the way Cleveland looked last night how about calves T-wolves pinch me that would get six and I'm not I think Minnesota

is a fun watch but I that number 19 million that is in our industry That is... Die. What? Hour 3. J. Mack tomorrow headlines today by Shane Steichen.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way

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Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.