The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 3 - Brooks, Mavericks

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

More on Dillon Brooks' flagrant 2 foul last night Why the Mavericks are in trouble in this series against the Suns Guest: Ryen RussilloSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but the show. celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went

down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

Ah, here we go, hour three. We're live Aruni. In Los Angeles, the herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. By the way, Dave Chappelle, comedian, last night was attacked at the end of his show. Yeah, Hollywood Bowl.

At the Hollywood Bowl. And coincidentally, one of our makeup people was at the show. Yeah. And by the way, the person that attacked Chappelle, I mean, security took care of him for about 10 minutes. And by the time he got out of there, his arm was all mangled. But it was like scary. He came up there with a weapon. Chappelle, you know, knocked him away.

They tackled Chappelle, and then they kind of chased him around the stage a little bit. There's not a lot of video of it because they made everyone turn their phones in before the performance. So it's a part of the Netflix as a joke festival that I went to Larry Davis. the night before. Different venue, of course, but it's like it's all part of the same festival. But look, we talk about it all the time. People want to run on the field, these streakers, want to run on stages. And it's keep playing with people.

It's not funny. Yeah. It is not funny. You will find what you're looking for. He wanted the smoke. He got the fire. Yeah. And so, yeah, I back Chappelle or any performer.

A hundred percent. You have no idea what people are going to do. People are crazy. He had a weapon. What if, what if he hadn't acted? The security hadn't acted. fast enough. Then what? Yeah. Or what if what if the security

somebody saw the weapon and took that person out, would we be upset at security who is paid to protect the performer? There's so many different ways that that could have gone, but I'm going to always defend the performer. I hope it's a lesson to all these people who think

they're tough or who think this is funny or who think running on courts is funny. When Will Smith ran on stage to go after Chris Rock, Chris Rock weighs 185 pounds, he would not have run on stage to attack Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan would have clobbered Will Smith. So a lot of these people that run on stage, they survey who's on stage. Nobody's attacking Joe Rogan on stage, who's a comedian, a funny guy.

Whatever risks you're taking, just be aware that there are consequences. This imaginary bubble that everyone thinks they're in where they're untouchable, you can get touched. You come across the wrong one and you're going to find out. You know what airlines are doing now? thank God. Airlines are literally levying hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines to disruptive people on airlines.

Like the federal, it is a, you're breaking a law, the FAA will fine you $74,000 because you and your girlfriend had too many cocktails and got belligerent, 74 grand. Give us a check. And I am here for it. When you're in the sky,

you know, we're talking about the Dylan Brooks injury. Or Dylan Brooks foul. And a lot of people are mad because I said, I get it. That's basketball in the 80s and 90s. Now, it deserved a flagrant and an ejection. But I've grown up seeing a lot of people do this. I saw Michael Jordan get tackled for years.

The bad boys. I saw the Knicks do it. And we glamorized it with 30 for 30s. We didn't do 30 for 30s on the Phoenix Suns with Steve Nash or the Denver Nuggets. Those teams were pretty. So we like physical sports. We like the middle linebacker, Ray Lewis, that intimidates people. Now, is this too hard?

So what this is, the reason this is more dangerous is because the basketball players in the air, they are vulnerable. And that's what I always think about people on planes. If you want to be crazy on the sidewalk, that's one thing. But when we're in the air and you're crazy and everybody's on a flight anyway, has anxiety. There's a reason there's a door for the pilots. Now we're all vulnerable with your crazy town nonsense. So I think you should literally jail people, hundreds of them, if you have to break them financially. whatever you got to do because people are vulnerable.

The problem with this, and I defended Dylan Brooks two hours ago, and he is vulnerable there, and you don't like the result. But I will say this. I do think Memphis was saying, okay, your guy came after us. We're the young team. We're the little brother. And we're going to take a stand here. And that's why Dylan Brooks did this in the first couple of minutes of the game.

I mean, he clearly had an intention to come out and say, we're going to take a little stand here. and I am for that. I can remember years and years and years ago. I watched the college football game. Florida State was involved in it. Bobby Bowden's Florida State team was facing a team with a good quarterback. And Bobby Bowden, you know, the Southern gentleman, his team got flagged for like three late hits in a row.

And what they were saying was, we can't beat you unless we make your quarterback a little fearful. And they had multiple late hits. Now, nobody went to the hospital. but I've seen this a lot. I remember years ago watching Patrick Ewing in a final four. Patrick Ewing had like three straight goal tendings. And he gave up points. Now that wasn't physical,

but Ewing was sending a message as a Georgetown Hoyer to the team he was playing. I think it was Carolina. I could be wrong. You throw any of that weak sauce up here, almost swat it, grab it. He knew he was giving up points, but he was setting the tone and sending a message. I think Dylan Brooks was sending a message.

your tough guy came after us i'm the tough guy on my team one of them i'm gonna go after you and by the way you see it in baseball you throw inside to me i'll throw inside to you you see it in football late hit somebody'll come back so i'm not saying i like the result of it i do not but i've seen this for 40 years watching sports uh the tit for tat that i'm gonna you do this i'll do that and I defend Memphis on being the young guy, the little brother. Draymond can turn a series around. He can intimidate. And that's why officials try to an NBA game set the tone.

Remember during the NFL preseason? The NFL was getting tired of taunting calls. And so in the preseason, the NFL was calling taunting calls every five minutes. And Joey was losing your mind. And he was like, you got to let these guys. But the NFL was saying, okay, we're going to set the tone here a little bit. Don't do that. And now as the season, because you and I were like, you're going to call like seven a game.

And then we got about one every third game. They didn't call many taunting foul. They really didn't call many taunting fouls. But they were setting the tone for the season. And the NFL, one of the reasons the NFL likes the preseason because they can set a tone on the rules. They've done this. They do this like every third, fourth year. This is a catch.

This is a penalty. you can't do that. College football doesn't have that. So you start the season in college football, there's your new rules and people aren't used to it. The NFL uses the preseason to send messages to coaches and players. They over flagged stuff. So it's a real value to them. And now Steve Kerr was not happy with it.

And after the foul, after the game said this. I don't know if it was intentional, but it was dirty. And, you know, playoff basketball is going to. It's supposed to be physical. You know, everybody's going to compete. Everybody's going to fight for everything. But there's a code in this league. There's a code that players follow where you never put a guy's season slash career in jeopardy

by taking somebody out in mid-air and clubbing him across the head and ultimately fracturing areas elbow. Broke the code. Dylan Brooks broke the code. Now, codes get hacked all the time, and there is punishment. And that's why the NBA has flagrant, flagrant too. I mean, they've got this setup. They've been dealing with it for years. Yes, it's harsh.

I don't think Dylan Brooks is a dirty guy. That's why Dylan Brooks is also not a dumb guy. Dylan Brooks knew when he hit that foul. That wasn't an accident. So if a guy's not dirty and yet does that, what does it tell you? It's a message. And he was willing to eat it for the message. Because you can't find a lot of Dylan Brooks fouls like that.

And we know he's not a dumb guy. And we know he's played enough basketball. He knows what's right and what's wrong. And he also didn't want anybody hurt. So when you start adding all these up, what he was doing was, hey, all right, your guy did your thing. I'm going to do my thing. I'm our intimidator or one of them.

I do think Golden State wins the series because I simply think they're not going to shoot. What was it? Seven of 38. What was the number? It was insane. They could not hit a three-pointer. And Memphis defensively makes a ton of mistakes, especially late in possessions, late in the game.

They're very frenetic. So, I mean, the Warriors in game two, Steph was three of 11, Clay was two of 12, Andrew Wiggins was one of seven, and Jordan Poole was one of six. Look at those three-point numbers. Those are atrocious.

So seven of 36 for 19 percent. So Golden State's going to hit a lot of those. And because Golden State's a very, very kind of cerebral team, they've been played. The chemistry's great. Even their young guy, Jordan Poole, has been around for several years. They move the ball brilliantly. They get all sorts of open looks. They just can't hit anything.

So I think they'll figure it out. All right. It's very ram-ball. I'm defending people that are not being defended much today. Ryan Tannahill I defended. So Ryan Tanniel came out and people are like, oh, he's selfish. He's insecure. I can't believe Ryan Tannahill's not going to help Malik Willis.

And first of all, when you hear the soundbite from him, I'll play the soundbite. Listen to his tone. He's not angry. He's not divisive. He simply said this about the new quarterback in town. We're competing against each other. We're watching the same tape. We're doing the same drills.

I don't think it's my job to mentor him. But if he learns to me along the way, then, then that's a great thing. Yes, of course it's a great thing. You can be a good teammate and not want somebody to take your job. So Nick Wright, during the commercial break, I was talking to Nick Wright. His take on First Things First this morning was when he came to FS1, I could have not helped develop him. Instead, I kind of embraced Nick and we become very close friends.

But I said the difference is FS1 has eight spots to have TV shows. You weren't replacing me. I didn't worry about that. What I wanted was at the network to have a show that led into. to me or the show after me, I wanted more shows at the network to be viable. So the faster Nick Wright could get good, the better it was for everybody. And I liked him and he made me laugh. He's a very, very funny guy.

Very, very funny guy. Great wife, great fam, everything. But Ryan Tanniel is just one quarterback on the team. You take his job. He didn't have a job. If this network had one show and Nick Wright says, oh, I grew up liking you, I'd say, yeah, there's the door. You may want to hit it because there's one show on the network I met.

It's two hours, three hours. and the only way they hire you is if they fire me. Now, I could like him like Malik Willis. I could like him. I could like his family. Probably be a little less willing to massively promote and market because he would replace me. But I work at a job where I've got like nine shows and I want everybody to crush. I want joy to be better.

I want everybody to be better because there's a zillion opportunities here. I own a podcast network. I want everybody to crush. but if I only had one podcast, then I was it, right? So what Tanyl Sand is like, there's only like eight great quarterback jobs in the league, maybe 10, where you have a good coach, a good owner, a good GM, and I'm the quarterback. And Tennessee's one of them. I mean, you can end up in Detroit or Chicago or, I mean, there's a lot of quarterback jobs.

Ask yourself this. How many quarterback jobs in the NFL? Good owner, good GM, good coach. Tennessee's one of about eight. And I'm telling you, it's Kansas City, you know, Indianapolis, Rams, and all of them. Steelers. Tampa Bay. I think San Francisco.

Yeah. But it is a, forget just 32 jobs. It's about, I mean, right now, if I was Dallas Cowboys quarterback, I don't love my coach. And my owner, they don't even have a GM that's out of the family. Well, also, we've seen this with quarterbacks who are. We're absolutely not in any kind of hot water. Aaron Rogers, Brett Favre from that matter. Tom Brady.

Don't really like having competition in the room. There's only one of these jobs to have, and those guys weren't going anywhere. And a Packer quarterback job is way better than a lion's quarterback job. So it's not only just... But I'm saying, like, Ryan Tannehill is not on steady ground. He lost that playoff game. Yes. And he's a sneaky old 34.

Right. So it's even more understandable why he would be, you know, a little insecure about his job. Yeah. I mean, by the way, we're all somewhat insecure about our job. Even Tom Brady was. You want to Garapolo on the... I mean, I think that's kind of healthy in a competitive marketplace. We'll call him, he's insecure. What if somebody came into your workplace? I can pay them half as much as Bob and I get just the same production. I think you'd get pretty insecure with your wife and four kids and the college you had to pay for. you are all a little vulnerable. I think Ryan's children's college is paid for. I think it is.

But Bob's isn't. That's not the point. No, I understand. I don't even think you can apply it to other jobs. I don't think you can apply it to our job. Like anywhere where there is multiple opportunities to do what you do, there's only one NFL, and there's only a set amount of teams, and beyond that, there's only a set amount of jobs that are actually movable. So it's understandable.

It's not warm and fuzzy for him to say that. People want to say that he's going to wrap his arms around him and bring him up. And he didn't say he wasn't going to help him. He just said they're still in competition. All right. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented. it all embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't. always get told and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind

the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tantons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do? a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, this is going to be interesting because I'm not being marginalized. I'm kind of putting myself out there that Draymond Green is the Warriors tough guy.

Dylan Brooks, to me, is the Grizzlies tough guy. And both guys play on the edge. And when Draymond did his tackle thing, I think there's a very alpha quality to Dylan Brooks who said, all right, I slept on it. I'm going to make a little message in the first couple of minutes. That thing happened right out of the gate. The first chance Dylan Brooks had to make a statement, which is take a shot at one of our guys. I'm going to take a shot at one of yours. Now, I don't like the result.

I'm not a fan of that. So let's bring in Ryan Rissillo. Podcast, not the ringer. Very good. We've been quoting it for the last week on stuff. Okay. So I'm just going to give you the floor, because I do like my basketball players to have physicality.

I like Dremont. How does this land for you? Size it up for me. You like Dremont? I love Dremont. I was not expecting that curveball. All right. Here's the deal.

I thought this was really interesting because it just, played out that way, you know, how life works. I had Gary Payton, Sr. on the podcast yesterday, and he was talking about his son, because, you know, it was part of the interview. And he said, I will point this out, though, goes, if he dunked on my team and did that scratch the head thing, which dudes are doing now to kind of show up the other guy, he goes, I would break his back. He said that about his son on the podcast, even though clearly he loves his son. I don't know if that was part of this. I don't know if there was some intent on some carryover on getting back at Peyton. maybe it's to your point that Draymond was really physical.

It was a dirty play though. Yes, yes. The wind up the intent. I mean, the way he winds up is so specific where it's not really going for the ball and somebody's in the air. And that's why Kerr was so upset because it is kind of understood. When you do that, when you see guys get really mad when they're hit, there's a different level of ending up on the ground but being hit in midair

because you just have no control of your body. All right. That is interesting. So Gary Payton, senior, said if Gary Payton, Peyton Jr. taunted him with that stuff. Well, you know, I was talking about this in baseball. And you see this all the time in baseball. You hit my guy. I hit yours. And we asked these athletes, I mean, they're 25-year-old kids full of testosterone and alpha. And, you know, I mean, part of it is, let's be honest, you and I both like UFC. A lot of it is gamesmanship. A lot of it is, you're not

going to intimidate me in my space. And I do think, Ryan, that Memphis is the youngest team. and I think they're defending sort of their space like, okay, you guys are the old brother. We're not letting you push us around. I really do think Memphis thinks about that. And I kind of find myself going, even though I don't think they're going to win the series, I kind of like the attitude. Is that reasonable? It's totally reasonable.

Look, every single team that wants to try to win a title, you need one guy that's wired a little differently. And it's why Matt Barnes is an elite for as long as he was. He also developed a decent shooter, too. Like, if you were putting together a roster and you had completely, passive personalities throughout, but we're the most talented team. I think you would see the front office go. We need somebody that the other team's a little scared of.

It's almost like that hockey enforcers thing. And I also think the way we've talked about sports, because we've been so concerned with injuries, that we've gotten away from, you know, this is still a very testosterone-driven event, whether you're watching hockey, football or basketball. And football, what do we say? Like, hey, match their physicality, hit them in the mouth, see who responds. You know, once you start getting beat up, how do you respond? Are you motivated by the pain or does the pain make you shut down?

And now we're talking bigger picture stuff here. But in the case of basketball, we've talked about this all the time where, oh, they didn't respond. They weren't physical enough. And those are things that we don't like in sports. So I don't like this play. I agree with Kerr. I think it's dirty, but I understand it. So, you know, you were one of the only people in the history of the state of Massachusetts.

You and I had this discussion 10 years ago where you, where you, where you, you, You wouldn't drink all the Belichick Kool-Aid, and you said he's a bad drafter. And one of the things that I've said, you can't transfer genius. That's why Elon Musk doesn't have a lot of protégés. And Steve Jobs didn't. And Stephen Hawkins didn't. They're just geniuses. You don't run into a bunch of engineers going, I learned everything from Elon Musk.

He functions intellectually in a different space. Belichick doesn't have a coaching tree. Because his mom spoke seven languages. Some of Bill's brilliance is not transferable. Phil Jackson, I think, is really smart. He has no coaching tree. Steve Kerr had as much Popovich as him. Why?

Because a lot of Phil is just not transferable. He and Belichick are really heady, well-read, bright, and then on the coaching tree. And so I move into this point. The Lakers are now leaning on Phil Jackson for who's our next coach. And my thing is, Phil is a great coach. But Belichick can't draft. Phil's no expert on what makes a great coach. coach? None of his coaches were hits.

I don't know if I would lean on him for the coach. Am I wrong? Well, I could poke holes in it, right? I could poke holes in it and say, well, wait a minute. The whole reason Vogel was there because Phil Jackson told Jeannie Bus to hire Vogel. And Vogel was a good coach. The idea that this is somehow Vogel's fault this past season, you knew when they put together this roster, you're like, it's going to take two to three months to even

figure out a rotation. And then finally you're going to tell the three guys that have a resume, hey, you're not playing. Like the whole thing, even though I thought they'd be better than this, if everybody had been healthy. Vogel is a really good coach, and he resurrected the perception of him post-Orlando, because at that time he was this guy even going to get another gig, and he admitted all the things that he needed to do different.

So Phil, that's actually, to me, a win, but then the way it works out here is that, all right, well, we have to fire him because you don't know what to do with the rest of the players. Maybe Phil is good in a part-time situation, right? Yeah. Maybe Phil can be an asset. It's not like he doesn't understand basketball all of a sudden.

I think the knocks on him with the Nix regime, is that it was a job. He kept telling the bosses he didn't want. And they finally offered him so much money, he had to say yes. And that wouldn't be, if I owned an organization, I wouldn't want to have to bribe

the most important employee to actually take the job. So day-to-day, no. Long-term, hang out. Let's grab a sandwich. What do you think? I think Phil can still do some of those things. But I think the Lakers, as we know, this is not something where they're like handing the reins

over to people, right? even if clutches had a lot of input, they didn't have final say during the trade deadline. A lot of people debate like, what is Polinka's role? Like, does he allow to do whatever he wants? What's Jeannie's role? Everybody hated the brother,

but everybody loves her. And now the team's a mess again. So I'm not going to sit here and like, go, I roll up in arms. Oh my gosh, Phil Jags is the worst thing ever because it actually led to the Vogel hire, but I just don't think I'd want him full time with benefits. All right.

So I love the Phoenix Suns. I love their construct. I like how they play. I like that they're not anti-analytics, but very pro-mid-range. I like everything about him. I just don't know if they can handle Janus if they get to the finals and if they get past Golden State. Lucas fascinating. They couldn't find a great two to play with Dirk,

and they've already whiffed on the Porzingis great two to play with Luca. Spencer Dinwiddie's more of a three. So are they too Luca reliant or is like this what they have to be? It's both. They have to be this way because of the things that you just talked about to the roster around them, but they are too Luca Reliant. I've gone back and I've talked about this now last few months because it just was dawning on me. We've had an incredible run of statistical performances over regular season, like historic stuff, right?

The Westbrook season in 17, some of these hardened seasons. But I kept coming back to the point and like, these guys have the basketball more than anyone's ever had it regularly in history. So like some of the traditional stats are completely weighted when you start looking at usage. So I went through usage rates, the top 20 usage rates in NBA history. And the playoff track record is terrible for these single-season players with the highest usage rates in the history of the game. And a lot of them are very recent years. The only player to ever get to a finals was Alan Iverson. And that was a pretty weak east.

It wasn't exactly some great finals appearance team of the Sixers against the Lakers who lost in five games. The only Western Conference Finals or Conference Finals beyond that was Harden in 18 when they missed a million threes, lost the Warriors. There's all sorts of flameouts. first and second round flame outs and teams that didn't even make the playoffs. Luca is the single highest usage player in the league. I mean, he was second behind the bead for the regular season. He's number one of the playoffs. It's incredible.

It's fascinating to watch in game one. But when they don't hit threes, like they didn't in that third quarter stretch, like they don't have a chance. Phoenix has all sorts of different things they can do. And so there's an amazement with Luca, but we've seen this script before. It is almost impossible to have a single usage player like this, have long-term success in the playoffs. That was very good.

It was very good. See, with Rosillo, you get usage rate. And I like this stuff. That Ricillo gives you these things. He'd been saving that out pitch. Didn't use that on any other show, but this one. Didn't see it. Didn't see it.

Can I ask you a question before you, because you put me late in the block here? I did not. This is the prime spot. This is a cleanup spot. What are you talking about? Go ahead. Just kidding.

Are you taking online courses at USC? Are you like that weird old guy that shows up to your Wednesday night class on campus. You're like, what? Imagine being this guy. He's like 100. And he's sitting there doing rocking earth science one. What's going on with you? Okay, let me ask you this question.

This is very self-absorbed by me, but let me ask you this question. Would you think less of me if I threw a couple of my businesses paid for USC players? Would you think less of me? You're laughing, would you? Would you think I was weird? I, you know, I know you, and I consider us friends. Yes. So I would, I would think it was hilarious.

I don't, I don't think, but the thing is, is I know that you would do it, only to say that you did it just to see how mad people would get to shoot. He knows, because you don't have any hobbies. You don't have any hobbies. Come on, Rosso. No, that's what you would do. So I, I got to admit, I think I'd respect the play. Whereas if you were some guy that were pretending to be some super, like, you know, integrity

above everything else. you know, journalism, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I found out you were, like, on the side paying for guys. Yeah. Then maybe I feel a little differently about it. That's exactly what I told Joy. Ryan's kind of telling on you right now, though. No, literally, I told Joy during the commercial break.

I want to do it just to tick everybody else off in the media. So you're telling on yourself then, yeah. Because seriously, if we really, go ahead, Joy. People think Colin takes himself extremely seriously and he doesn't. He takes the show seriously. Yeah, he takes a show seriously. You know, he's, he enjoyed. Maybe four of the shows.

each week. There's usually a fifth one in there. He doesn't not enjoy watching people argue amongst each other about things that he's not paying attention to and then having a cigar with, you know, a glass of whiskey with Anne. All right, Rosillo. I only let Rosillo ask me questions. I don't like guests asking me questions. I like to, too. Here's a question for Rosillo really quickly while we have you. I'm getting an honorary doctorate because I'm giving the commencement speech at Barry University at my school this Friday. Is it fair to ask people to call me Dr. Taylor

after the commencement speech after I get it. I love that question. Where do you land on that? I love it. I say yes. Because it's almost like Colin paying for USC players. It's incredibly annoying. You know it's annoying. And yet you love the reaction to it.

So I'm all for it. I hope the handle has changed. I want the graphics to be different from now on, Joy. I mean, I will get the piece of paper that says I have a doctorate in humanities. I think it's fair. Doesn't Dr. Joy? Isn't Dr. Joy? Isn't Dr. Joy better branding, though? I like Dr. Joy better. It does sound better.

No, it does way better. Colin and Dr. Joy. It makes this show sound academic. So great. Instead of that barnyard musical it is. All right, Rosillo, good seeing you. Ryan Rusillo podcast on the ringer. Joy, isn't there a Dr. Joy Brown?

Didn't she do a radio show or something for a year? I can't be the only Dr. Joy. There's Dr. Laura. Is she still doing stuff out there? Psychology. You're a doctor of humanities. You're very human. Make our show more human.

Joy with the news. Dr. Jerry, almost. Turn on the news. After Friday. This is the herd line news. So the Browns have retooled their quarterback room. That's one way of putting things. Add Dishon Watson as well as Jacoby Brissette and Josh Jobs to back him up.

And they're still trying to find a trade partner for Baker Mayfield. And they're also waiting to see how long of a suspension Deshawn Watson could possibly get for this season or next season. And that leaves a lot of uncertainty in the position. position. And Kevin Stefanski says the team is just waiting until we have more information. I just think it's kind of the nature of it. We really, we don't know, and that's okay. We've got three new guys, calm plays in the huddle. There are three cadences, you know, so the guys hearing those voices. So that room, there's a lot of learning going on. There's a ton of teaching going on. And then as more information comes available, we can determine how we rotate guys in

training camp and those type of things. But until we have that, information. We're really just in a holding pattern. They also reportedly don't want to pay any part of Baker's salary. None. Well, they also paid all of Deshawn Watson's salary guaranteed. So I'm sure the owner's like, you know, I'm kind of. I'm tapped at this position. Yeah, we're tapped. Especially for a guy that's not going to play for the Browns ever again. Now, there's like some conversation about if he should stay as a backup. That's not going to work. Not for a

like Baker Mayfield. Also, they have actual legitimate backups there in the building. This is just one of those situations where a lot of things happened all at once. And you did not build up emotional equity with anyone to make things smoother. So he's obviously very injured last season, bet on himself while being his normal disruptive self. He had to have surgery at the end of the year. That changes things as far as your trade value. when people see that you, when you look at the statistics and step back,

because I do think that the Baker-Mayfield era in Cleveland is a little bit exaggerated when it comes to the success of things. He did make them relevance. He did make them competitive eventually. He did have a lot of things to overcome because it was Cleveland. But in reality, at the end of the day, he had one successful season with a really great team in one-one playoff game. That is the entirety of it.

That's his reality. So what is that worth in today's NFL? Do I think he will get another starting job eventually? Yes. Do I think he's actually going to have any success in the NFL? No, because I have four years of evidence that in a not ideal situation, it's a six-win team. Well, also, I think we talked about this yesterday. Next year, the over-under on quarterbacks drafted is six and a half.

Right. And those are mostly bad teams. And that's next year. The year after that, we have even more guys. Yes. So the bottom line is most good. teams have a quarterback, well-run teams. Rams, Chiefs, Packers, New England's got theirs, right? Ravens. So the good teams have theirs. If he doesn't get a job now, a lot of bad chaotic teams

are at least going to give their new guy two years. So, you know, people often say, Kaepernick's not getting a job offer. There's not a lot of starting ones open. And I think a lot of teams are looking to next year's draft class where you have a couple of huge potential stars. And so now, obviously the Kaepernick thing goes well beyond Baker and all that stuff. But I think Baker has become a bridge. No, I think he is a bridge. That's all he is now. There are starting quarterbacks that are bridges.

So there's levels to this. It doesn't mean that you're not going to start for a team and not going to get a multi-year deal, but you're not going to be the future of the organization. That's right. Like Carson Wentz got a second chance to be a franchise guy and it didn't work. Right. So now he's a bridge guy. Now he's gone to a bridge guy.

A Tribisky, I think, is viewed as a bridge guy going in. So, you know, Donald, when he went to Carolina, was not viewed as a bridge guy. No. It was his second stop. Now he'll just be a bridge guy. So, as we've always said, there's backups, there's starters. And then there's guys like Marioita. We'll give him a year.

But the difference with Baker is Baker just comes with more. And that is the risk that you, when I said building up emotional equity. When you are not great, but you're good. to everyone in the building, you make things easier for everyone, you say the right thing, you hourly do the right thing in situations where things could go badly, that goes a long way with people. They're going to do right by you when things fall apart or turn against you. When you're a big personality, Cam Baker, Tebow, a lot of teams have no interest, you being the backup. Right. Like New England literally got Cam out of the building instead of backing up Mac.

They're like, it's just not going to work. He's too big of a star. Baker, the downside to having this huge brand, he's too big of a star now to make him a backup. And by the way, I... And I don't think he wants to be a backup. No, I said this about Tim Tebow forever. I said, after Denver, it's over.

Well, yeah, but also Tebow was, I mean... But a lot of people thought he could play for a long time. Yeah, I mean, they still think this has some conspiracy against him. But you could not... To me, after Denver, it's like, okay, it's not a starter. You can't bring him into- Right, no, Tibo had a moment. People had a moment.

It's not like, I love Tibo. I fell for it too. But I fell for Baker. But in reality is, now we have the evidence. And if you are a T-bo, then you're going to get multiple opportunities. If you are a Cam, you are going to get multiple opportunities. I do think Baker's going to get another opportunity, but I don't think that Browns are in any, they're not in a position to necessarily do right by him.

I think they're just going to do what's best for the Browns. By the way, I was wrong on Went. I thought he was a franchise guy. I found out at Jacksonville last year at the end of the year, he's a bridge guy. Yeah, well, so did the Colts. Debo Samuel once out of San Francisco after reportedly asking for a trade and breaking off contract extension talks with the Niners. But the team still sees him in their future. And John Lynch, the GM reiterated, they plan to have him on the roster in 2022.

It's a yes for me. And that's our job. I mean, he's too good of a player. We've got too good of a thing going. And we want to keep that going. We're trying really hard with Devo to work through, you know, whatever the issues might be. So he makes us better. I think we make him better.

And we're hopeful that, you know, we can get everything right and that we're rolling forward. San Francisco is such an enigma to me. Yeah, they're just, there's so much I like and so much I don't know. Right. And we don't really ever find out about it. It's so, it's so strange. Like, what is Debo, like, really mad about? And I'm not saying I disagree with whatever he's mad about.

I just don't really, I'm not really sure. And then, like, San Francisco has a great reputation and well-run plays. their players, great fan base, like great organization, competitors. They've leaned on him. They did not flinch during the draft at all. They had multiple great offers for him, didn't move. The Lions offered a first and a second for him.

They said, no thanks. It's very, they got something going on there. This is the ultimate shell game. They were just toying with us. See what you're doing. We're being toyed with. We are. So the Packers were in desperate need of wide receivers in this year's draft,

and many were expecting them to use one of their first. round picks to get one. They did not. They took two defenders in the first round and waited until the second round to get a receiver. And Peter King says he doubts that Aaron Rogers is happy with that draft strategy. If I were him, I wouldn't be very happy about it. Look, the Detroit Lions went from 32 to 12 to take one of the franchise receivers in this draft. The Green Bay Packers had more draft capital to spend on a franchise receiver. I have a really killed Brian Gutikinst in the past about what he's done. But this year, they were set up after the Devante Adams trade to go out and have the draft capital to go get a wide receiver.

I'm not on Aaron Rogers' side on a lot of things, but I definitely was with the Jordan Love situation, coincidentally the draft. And I would be on his side, although I do like the receiver that they picked. I would be on his side with this as well. I... They didn't need, listen, they needed a linebacker. They desperately needed a roundbacker. They desperately needed a receiver. Yes. That's all it is. Yes. You needed that you could have moved up and got Birx from Arkansas, who I told you, I bet Arkansas three times last year, lost, is the only team I bet multiple times and lost three straight times. And I watched that kid play. He's going to come into the NFL and play as a rookie and be substantial if they can get the

ball to him. So to me, yeah, you need a linebacker. You desperately needed a wide receiver. But also, when it comes to the Packers, you know what you're getting. I know you're right. You know what you're getting at this point with the badgers. I can't get worked up anymore. I can't, I can't get worked up. I don't consider them to be Super Bowl contenders at all, despite Aaron Rogers being there. Aaron Rogers chose to stay there, and this is what they do. They are consistently good, not great. We have decades of evidence of this.

They have a Hall of Fame, they have a Hall of Fame quarterback. For the last 30 years, they've had a Hall of Fame level quarterback, and two Super Bowl's to show for it. No, it's not like they haven't had success. They have. and if you consider winning playoff games successful, then great. That's good for you. That's how some people like to operate. But they are not aggressive.

They do not take big swings. They're perfectly comfortable being good, not great. And so you have to live with that if you choose to be a part of that. That's what they do. Yeah, they do not push it. They do not push it. Everything's always about the future. They develop and then they don't pay the players that they developed.

To then draft and develop more players. They're like the Pittsburgh Pirates. The minute the player's good, they can't afford them. Get out of time. They just win more. They just won't. Yeah. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Line. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlie. The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches.

We talk to players. We tell you stories. You download it, you listen to it, I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Ghalib on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan,

so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Save Biggin' Your Water, Bills with Navian. Local rebates, too. Tankless made simple.com. Hot water never runs out because they only heat it when. you need it.

The Dylan Brooks Fowl, big topic today. What games are tonight? So we must have tonight. Sons Dallas should be We have heat. Sixers first and then Mavsons tonight. Okay, so the heat will beat Philly and I think the Sons will beat Dallas.

Dallas needs somebody else to have a huge night. Not that they couldn't. Yeah, they definitely could. I thought Riscilla's point, when you have a star that has the ball always. Yeah, it's hard for other. people to have big nights. And it's also, you're not built for a seven-game series.

Your stars just run out of gas. James Harden did. Westbrook did. That's why it's amazing. You know, LeBron, to his credit, was always looking for a second score. D-Waid, Kyrie Irving, a second guy that could hit shots. LeBronzo has been a little ahead of a lot of players. Antonio Daniels, a broadcaster for the Pelicans, did not like the Dillon Brooks Fowl.

whatsoever. There are different ways to go about getting your message across. Anyone that has played the game at this level, this is 100% a dirty play. Because he wound up, didn't even go after the ball. Gary Payton, the second, was vulnerable. He was vulnerable. Anytime a guy takes off like that, he's vulnerable to not make a play on the ball and to swing at him. No, I'm not with that. It wasn't, he's not a dirty player. But that's 100% a dirty play, though. We are not in the 80s, Colin. We got to readjust our goggles.

Yeah, all right. You know, it's a pretty tough call right there. It goes, it's in either way. I mean, when you're in the air, yes, I know he's very vulnerable. Very vulnerable. That was why Jemann had the flagrant too, because he was in the air.

Guy was in the air. He grabbed him. Yeah, I mean, it's rough. It's, you know, I like my physical guys. I like my intimidators. I like my, I, pretty, basketball, one of the complaints about the three-point analytic machine is it's just everybody shooting nice jumpers and nobody, there's no contact. I like, even though I don't think it's

sustainable, John Morant driving to the basket is spectacular to watch. He's challenging other men at the basket. And I think in the end, that's my downside to analytics. I think they've killed a lot of baseball. There's no base runners. There's no cat and mouse on the bases. I think it hurts baseball. And in the regular season, in the postseason, we get much more situational basketball, a lot more mid-range shots. But in the regular season, it's just come down, pull up, shoot. It's a three-point shooting contest. I think I've said this. I miss the physicality. I like dunking on guys and in your face. I love D-Waid. I love Michael Jordan. I love Dremont Green. I like guys like this. It's hard to take your eyes off a near rumble. It's not a rumble,

but it's some physicality in the sport. It feels like. Like it's just, we're very close to things erupting. And it's like, I like that tension. Tension is good. And villains are important as well. Now, I just don't. Especially for the NBA. I don't view Dremon as a villain.

I think you're taking villain just the term too literally. If you're, if you're playing against Dremont Green, you don't like Dremont Green. Heels more comfortable. Yeah, I'm more comfortable saying he's a, he's a heel. He's leaning in to annoy you. He's like a happy villain. Yeah, and that's it what a heel is, like a wrestling heel. Hulk Hogan turn heel.

He is still happy, very happy. All right, we'll see you tomorrow. Speak for yourself is next. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the... 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.