The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Bruce Pearl

Episode Date: March 20, 2025

Thoughts on the NCAA Tournament and why the gap is wider than ever Another edition of Best For Last   Guest: Bruce Pearl #douggottliebshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or stream us live every day in the IHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSRour. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Hurd, wherever you may be, and however you may be making it as part of your day. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd. On the first day of the NCAA tournament.

I'm going to do something here that we hadn't planned on doing it. I know, like, Ryan Music and Greg Two-Ears in there, go, what? We got this whole setup. up. Ryan, Ryan sitting there, hey dude, just don't talk about Star Wars.

Like, the new ones are any good. Ryan's our resident Star Wars aficionado. I just, so I'm 10 months into being a head coach in college. Okay? Let me start with the opening statement.

It's the coolest thing ever. And look, this is coming off a year where my team lost 22 games in a row. and like new and inventive waves of getting hurt, bad officiating. Hey, we had some bad game plans. We just had some bad games. We had some great games and we had one and we just couldn't close. Like, you name it.

And I'm watching High Point Take on Purdue. They're down five with 15 and a half to go in the second half. I'm watching Creighton and it's getting a little tighter. It's a 12 point game. And it's the High Point Purdue thing is really, really interesting. Because despite what our record is, through just about every one of those games, we weren't just competitive, you know, we're down a point to Oklahoma State. We're down, I think, a point to Providence at the half.

We're down a point or two to Ohio State at the half as well. We haven't even down more to Ohio State. We cut that thing to eight in the second half. the Drake game was tied with four minutes to go. Drake's really, really good. And then you go into our conference and, you know, we had lead after lead in the second half. And it's just, it's, there's so much you don't know on the outside.

And I'll be interested to see as I watch these games, how many teams that are underdogs or have younger players, how much they do some of the things that we've done. I'll give you an example. We have tried, we tried to milk the clock in some games we had leads in. Too, you have any idea how you do that? Because I know, too, he, his kids play basketball and baseball, whatever. So in college basketball, the clock runs on a made shot.

But the shot clock doesn't run until you touch the basketball. So, and like, we played Oakland and Greg Campi at the end of the year, and we were up 14 the second half. Don't ask me how we lost. Like, I, it's like a, it's like a fable. I'm like watching it happen. It's hard. But we had taught our players to, hey, we have a lead. Like, we do the old milking thing, like, we're going to milk, which means they make a basket.

You let it bounce. And then we did everything from, like, guys will tie their shoes to guy taking the ball. and bounce finally touches it, throws it to the ref, ref throws it back to him. If you do it, think about this, okay? There's, on average, we're playing 65 possession games, right?

So if you can milk 10 seconds off of a clock for five or six possessions, six possessions, that's two less possessions for the other team. Two. And you start to do

the math and you have the lead and you're like okay you have a 10 point lead two less possessions those are massively important massive there there's other parts of the math where when we had seven fouls if they had a a sub 60% free throw shooter we would I'd sub players in who didn't play that much to intentionally foul those players again using the math when you say somebody's a 57% free throw shooter they're not 50 like well they make one of two that's not actually that works the 57% chance of making each one, right? So we would, we would do the math in, hey, you know, normally you'd go two for one, we'd try and go three for two,

where you'd foul and then get the ball, and then if you'd make or miss, foul again, make or miss, and then go again. So the more possessions you have, the more, you play the, it's called PPP points per possession, you're trying to use math to give yourself every possible advantage. to winning a game, knowing the other teams got better players, right? And the more possessions they have, the more likely they are to win because they got better,

older players, they're going to be better, more efficient. And oh, yeah, by the way, probably better coaches too, because they're older, more experienced, they've done all these things. But I'm watching, you know, High Point and Creighton, and the High Point coach used to coach at Creighton under Greg McDermott. And so there's some aspects of it. but the way in which you coach and do the exact same things when you have the lesser talent or the lesser experience

or the shrunken bench can change dramatically. And then the other part, too, it is, and I've always thought this, and then when I covered the NCAA tournament, I knew it to be true, which is a lot of these games, if you don't, you're not paying attention or you're just gambling,

you look at the final score. You're like, oh, that game was a 10-point game. Like, well, not really. It was a one-point game. and then this, this and this happened, and it spun out of control. It got to be seven. They fouled late.

It ends up being a 10-point game. Like, I don't know what this ends up as with Purdue and high point. But right now, it's 47-41. Purdue just got called for an offensive foul. It's very much a close game. Very much a close game. Now, your margin for error is really, really slight when you're playing against a Purdue team

that has five players on the floor that played in a national championship game last year and they've played, you know, 50-some-odd Big Ten games the last two years together, counting the Big Ten tournament. You look at the game so differently when you've been truly in the game,

truly in the game. The other part to it, which is, I would love, and no one actually really knows, I would love, And I would love, oh man, here's another example, 47, 41, high point drives in, misses a layup. Misses a layup. If they make that layup, it's a three-point game. It feels like a completely different basketball game.

Then now a, excuse me, it's a six, it would have been a five, it would have been a, what, six, it would have been a four-point game. Now it's a six-point game. And let's say Purdue scores here. then it's eight, now a sudden it feels completely different. The other thing we would do again, and that's probably exactly what's going to happen, other thing we would do is, you know, you have a timeout every four minutes in college basketball. So, for example, right now there's 12 minutes and 59 seconds to go in the second half. High point just fouled, and so Purdue is going to go to the line.

So if your high point, you want to go and try and obviously you want to score. You got a box out in the free throw. Go down and score. Get a stop. Go down and score. And then do you want a foul if you're not in the bonus in order to stop the clock to get to that timeout so you can regroup yourself if you're fatigued? Does it make sense? There's so many different things in which you can manipulate the clock and try and give yourself the best possible opportunity to win the basketball game.

It does feel a little bit like the election. There's four minutes to go. I'm almost ready to call it for Creighton. Taking on Louisville, they're up 14. There was just either an intentional or a technical foul. That would be many people thought Louisville was underseeded. I did not. I thought they were both sort of underseated leading to kind of an even matchup.

The point that I really want to at some point get to is there's always been a disparity in the haves and have-nots in college basketball. It's why we have the Cinderella stories, right? A one-bid league, a league that or a team that struggled in their regular season and then finally won the postseason and got there. But now it's really interesting. I used this example earlier on the show. Tennessee takes on Wofford. Tennessee takes on Wofford.

The Valls. which is short for volunteers, take on the terriers of Wofford. And did we come up, was it 30 to 1? It's somewhere in the, let's just say 28, 28, like, is that 280%?

Or 28 to 1 in terms of the ratio, I would guess, in terms of salaries of Tennessee's players to salaries of Wofford players. I just, I would love as we come down the end of the game. Now, High Point does, by all estimations, it's a very well-funded school. I think their NIL number is probably close to a million dollars for their team,

which is really, really high, highest in their league. And Purdue's is probably two and a half to three. Two and a half to three. So you want to talk about upsets. It's one thing to upset a team because you're a team from the Big South or the, you the Socon or last year the Horizon League, but to beat a team that has, that literally poaches,

I mean, Kentucky's a perfect example. Their salary structure, all those guys make a lot of money, but what they did was it's like the Noah's arc of plans. They got two of everything. They got two centers, they got two point guards, they got two wings,

two of everything. And the landscape of the sport has always favored the teams with more talent, the teams with more experience, the teams with more resources, but never more so than now. Never more so than now. And it will never happen, but what would it be like if you turn on CBS or you turn on Turner

and you're watching the NCAA tournament and at some point they flashed up the salaries? Because it would feel like Major League Baseball. It would feel like the A's taking on the Yankees or the A's taking on the Dodgers or the Ray's taking on the Dodgers, right? That's really what we're dealing with. with. And I actually commend the committee. I commend the committee on at the end of the day, while Oklahoma struggled in the SEC, part of it is every game Oklahoma is playing against is against a virtual all-star team of coaches and portal players. Like, I know for a fact that one

team in the SEC, I have a couple really good friends for SEC head coaches. And, And their salary structure this past year was, hey, we have a couple of $750,000 guys. And then the rest of our starting lineup is like $350,000. Okay. That is 30x to what we're spending at our level. And that's not an excuse. That's just a reality. Now, do we have to get closer and be more competitive in our own league?

Of course. but I remember playing Ohio State and we're playing them in Columbus and we're playing them in a guarantee game and they kind of fell apart late in the season but I walked into the locker room it was an eight point game and then they hit a couple of shots

it got to be 12 to 15 I emptied the bench it kind of spiraled the game looked way worse than it actually was it was super competitive for about 32 34 minutes and one of my assistants put his arm around me, he's like, coach,

that's a $3 million team. You're like, yeah, it is. It really is. Wouldn't that be interesting? Again, it'll never happen. But if they put the salary, just the overall, you don't have to put the individual salaries for players. But if you put the salaries for the teams on the screen

when you're coming down the wire, here's Wofford. whose overall salaries in their NIL collective is $210,000. I don't know that's the number. I'm just making that up. I'm guessing it's somewhere between $100 and $250. I have no idea where it lands. Take it on Tennessee, whose salaries total $4 million.

Again, I don't know if it's four. I'm guessing it's between three and a half and four and a half. That's what it takes to be an elite team in college basketball, and they are an absolutely an elite team. How would you look at the game? how would you look at the chance of an upset? Who would you cheer for? What would it be like for you as a fan?

It's just a question. I don't know what the answer is. That's how the landscape of sport has changed. I spoke to a couple of, I talked to an athletic director who's in the Big 12. And next year, and again, I don't know if you guys know this, they're doing what's called revenue sharing, right? So football gets, I think it's like $13 million. And then basketball will get between $2,000. and a half and three and a half million dollars you pay from the school you pay the players the

difference is in the SEC they're still going to have their collectives and they'll throw in probably two and a half million more six million dollar payrolls which is what indiana reportedly had this year so the reason these jobs are coming open more quickly than they ever have before is people have always donated money but now they feel like they're donating money for players i'm buying players for you you need to perform and produce right now. And there's no question. I've just be candid. I felt like there was a portion of time in the season

when home games felt like more pressure because all of the people that sit right across from our bench, no matter how reasonable they were that we got the job late, we had some academic restrictions, the portal was essentially fleeced, right? It just wasn't time or money or resources. and it's just hard. And we went with young players

as opposed to getting guys with bad track records. But we know that no matter of the amount, they're giving their hard-earned money to try and help you get a basketball team that can perform and you want to perform for them.

It's different, more pressure-packed than ever before. And I guess I just wonder, two things. One, how would you look at it? And two, doesn't it feel like there's a greater gap in talent and in resources than there's ever been.

Because they still have the new arena. They still have the practice facility. They still have the charter planes. They still have the better gear. They still have more coaches, better training. They still have all those other things. And then they have all the money for their players, which isn't just at the top end,

but those schools will pay freshmen six figures to not play, which gives them great depth at their practices. And if somebody goes down, they have the next guy up. Whereas everybody else has to figure out, do I put most of my money in a player or two? And what happens if that player or two go down with an injury? It's fascinating. And yet, all people care about is the bracket.

Creighton is up 12 with a minute 45 to go. Purdue is up eight with nine and a half to go. We'll keep you updated. I'm Doug Gottliebind for Colin. is the hurt. Hey, earlier this week, speaking of one of those elite teams, Bruce Pearl's been a friend of mine for 35 years or so.

And I don't know if you guys know I have a show. It's called the Doug Gottlieb show. It follows this show on most Fox Sports Radio affiliates. I caught up with him earlier this week. We thought it was fun. We thought it was interesting. What's it like to go from a division two coach, coaching your national champion,

taking Auburn to Afana 4 and now being the hunt dead as opposed to the hunt dirt. You'll find out from Bruce Pearl next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Doug Alibin for Colin, this is the herd. Fox Sports Radio, Iheart Radio app. High Point Purdue is close. get you updated on that one. Looks like Creighton is going to beat Louisville. So I can 10 point lead,

59.4 to go. I'm going to call it. It's college basketball. Not going to call it, but definitely trending in the way of Creighton, trending in the way of Creighton. More on that. We'll get you an update with Heardline News, but I wanted to bring you a conversation

I had with Auburn head coach Bruce Pearl. Full disclosure, Bruce and I have known each other for years. My dad from 1975 to 1980 was head coach at UW Milwaukee when Bruce took over that job. That was his first Division I job coming from Southern Indiana. Southern Indiana is now Division I, but used to be Division II. They won Division II National Championship. One of the first calls he made was to my dad to say, hey, like, how'd you do it here? What's it like? Anybody you know that's still around? Again, I know it was like 30 years later, but that's

one of the things that you do when you get a job. And we're both Jewish, we're Michigan Booker. I actually got a chance to be his assistant coach on a team that went to Israel. I didn't make the trip because my wife had had a baby who just turned 16 yesterday. So this is 16 years ago, or actually 17 years ago. I did a training camp with him. We did roster selection, everything, and we've been really close friends ever since. So I host the Doug Gottlieb show, which you can download and listen to wherever you download podcast. We have a daily podcast and radio show, three hours of content. Just type in Doug Gottlieb. And Bruce joined me two days ago.

And I asked him about the ever-changing landscape of NIL and college basketball. Well, you know, Doug, it's, the SEC, our slogan is it just means more. And the toughest league in the country is the one you're in. Okay, so when you were in the Horizon League this year at Green, at Green Bay, that was the toughest league in the country for you. And so what that means was we recognized that the SEC was going to be committed to supporting student athletes in the area of NIL. Obviously, you know, football is going to, you know, take the lion's share because of, you know, just how much revenue is driven from those football programs. But the basketball programs weren't terribly far behind.

And the difference between our league and most other leagues, well, let's just say specifically take the ECC, for example, really only Duke or Louisville or Clemson or a couple other schools were committed in the area of NIL for their basketball programs. And the others weren't. And as a result, their talent level dropped off. Still great coaches, still great programs. Where is in the SEC, 16 schools invested. I mean, really invested. And, yeah, you know, look, Doug, I still look at this profession as ministerial.

you know, recruiting has become more transactional at the same time. You know, I'm a free market guy. I'm a capitalist. I believe in this republic, in this country, and I believe that, you know, the market is going to set what some is worth. And all that's happened is we have recognized finally that these student athletes are really of greater value than what they were really ever appreciated for. Everybody else was making money except the student athletes. That was wrong.

The NCAA was slow to adjust. Now, of course, you know, we have a situation where there are no guard lines, there are no guard rails. We won't really have it. We didn't really have a national champion in football this year. Ohio State had the largest NIL, so did Texas, so did a couple of schools. They were the schools in advanced. And, you know, in basketball, it won't quite mean the same because we're not all playing by the same rules. I hope Congress can get some legislation done, get some antitrust protection in there,

so we can compete a student athlete, but on a more, you know, on a level that we're all playing by the same rules. On one hand, you get a top seat. On the other hand, you've lost three of your last four. I think that the only question with losing is,

has it adjusted or hurt the confidence level of the team into where you actually stand in the landscape? Do you know the answer to that? I don't know that. Great question. I don't know the answer to it yet. But I don't think we're winning just because we're confident, and I don't think we've lost because we've lost our competence.

Now, we did miss some free throws in our last game against Tennessee that would have made a big difference, okay? And sometimes competence for free to line, you know, can be a factor. But the three teams we lost to, we lost to a four-seat at Texan. We lost to a two-seat in Alabama. and lost to a two seat of Tennessee. So we lost to all, you know, really, really good teams. But all I can tell you is the practices have been good.

The attitude's been really good. And we're, you know, we're excited about playing. And we're, you know, we're in a good position to finish this thing right. Having been to the Final Four and come so close, right, losing just a crazy, crazy, controversial call. You know, you've won this thing at the Division II level. But how do you not get ahead of yourself, right? because I just wonder, like, you all, every coach has that, and even, you know, as players you have it, where you think of all the things you should have done.

And I've done this, we would have won the national championship. How do you not get ahead of yourselves to game five and game six when you got to worry about games one through four? Well, you know the answer to that. It's real simple. Right now, I can only see four other teams in this tournament, and that's St. Francis in Alabama State, Creighton, and Louisville. And we are in a tournament. We're going to play two games. And one of those four teams, or five, including Auburn, is advancing to the Sweet 16.

And that's what we're focused on. Truly, what we're focused. I'm not even sure what's next weekend. You know, I think this should state to two. I think Iowa states in our bracket, too, but I'm really not looking ahead. I'm just taking a look at this right now and making sure our team is at the same time. But I will say this. I've never been in one seat.

I was born to be a 12 seat. I was born at 12 seat. But we do have a team that I feel like should get to the final fourth. I'm going to feel like we should. I feel like we're good enough to. And what you would like to have happen is you would like along the way, if you do lose, you would like for somebody to beat you. Like somebody really played exceptionally well, and as a result of playing exceptionally well, we lost.

And that's like the position I had to put my team. in right now. Yeah, it is, it is weird, right? 20 years ago, you took UWM to the Sweet 16, right? And it was all, it was all, we're the hunter. Now you're the hunted. Now you're the hunted. That's an amazing kind of transformation, but it's different for you.

It's different for Auburn. Now, I, you, Auburn was a one seed. We played against him in the second round in 99, Chris Porter, Doc Robinson, uh, uh, Scott Polson, I think was his name. He'd live a, uh, ball for the shooter. Yep. oh, he lit us up in indie.

Really close game we lost. But it's a different thing because the crowd turns on you, right? Like if you, if that game is close, all of a sudden, you look up, you're like, hold on. Wait, why? How do we get, how does this become a road game? Have you experienced that yet in the tournament where you've experienced being in a road game, but when you're the favorite and suddenly the crowd turns on you because everyone cheers for the upset? Yeah, well, we felt that way last year at 10 minutes.

Zaga against against when we're against Yale. But you know what? Hey, we're going to have plenty of people from Auburn in Lexington. The crowd may turn

on us, that's fine. And I've been, the crowd's turned on me my whole life, so I don't care. I want to be, I want to be the coach that everybody else in the league hates. Okay, because you know why they, you know when the road teams actually like opposing coaches? They like opposing coaches that

can't beat their team. I'm going to bring a team and it's going to be able to beat you tonight. And I don't care if you like me or not. Get over it. And so I've been booed my whole life. My name is Bruce. So when I come out, they're already

brewing me. And so I'm used to it. All right. I know you've got to go, but I've got two things. First, I'm thinking late October, exhibition game. We raise money. Hold on.

We raise money for any Israeli cause you would like. Okay? We get Mr. Gruber to sponsor it at the rest center, and then we go and we, and then we go in my treat, we go to Lambeau Field afterwards. Let's talk about it. Oh, and talk about it is a no. Give me a yes, Bruce. Hey, listen, I, as you know, I try to raise a lot of money for Israel.

I'm Israel high. But when it comes to Auburn basketball, I've got to raise the money. Hey, we can do that. Hey, listen, we can definitely, we can definitely do that, that too. Last thing. Happy birthday. How about that? Hey, listen, when you become a senior citizen, do you stop celebrating birthdays? That's what I want to know, because I'm now a senior citizen.

Brandy makes so much funny, I'm getting all kind of mail for Medicaid. I'm getting all these AARP cards. I now can get a senior citizen-egett discount. And being Jewish, I'm looking for all that. I'm looking for a discount on a meal. I'm looking for that senior citizen discount. I can say that, by the way. We know at your age, you're fissing all over yourself.

Bruce, best of luck. We'll see you in San Antonio, hopefully, on the sidelines. Thanks for joining us. Have birthday. I miss you, my friend. I miss you, too. Take care. All right, that's Bruce Perotler this week on the Doug Gottlieb show.

If you missed any of the Doug Gottlieb show, have you never heard of it? Just download it, subscribe, rate, review, all that stuff. Check it out wherever you pick up podcast. In the meantime, this is The Herd. Doug Gottlieb in for call. Let's get to Ryan Music with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the Heraldi! line news. Hello, Ryan. Oh, Doug, one in the books, my friend. One of the books. Crayton, getting a win over Louisville. So one of the terminate round, first round games, already done. Creton advancing past Louisville.

The winner gets Auburn, right? Likely Auburn. Likely, likely. Likely. No guarantees, no guarantees these days. By the way, poor S-I-U-E. Oh, they had to play Houston. Oofed.

They're down 40 to 18 My guy Brian Barone Good friend of mine We actually beat SIEUE This year They were out of gas We played them They were so tired

Hey, wins a win Doug I will take it It was a 25 point win too There you go Other games inaction currently Third-seeded Wisconsin 40 to 32 Over 14 seed Montana at half

So that one a little tighter Than I'm sure the Badgers Would have expected And then coming down the stretch here, a little under four minutes left to play. You have the fourth seed Purdue Boilermakers, taken on 13 seed High Point Panthers. We learned that earlier, Doug.

Panthers. We learned that earlier. Such a mail-in nickname, right? Mail in. Actually, my team's nickname was the Panthers, which, you know, I can think of High Point, I know northern Iowa. Right, aren't they, the Panthers? Just a couple of... Sounds about right. Pit Panthers, right?

Pit Panthers. Yeah, I would propose a nickname change. Bulldogs are only cool because you can have a bulldog Right? Like blue, the bulldog for Butler Really, really cool Uga Uga, the Georgia Like that's the only reason that otherwise

That's kind of a male in nickname A little bit Wildcats, the biggest male in nickname Okay Just so generic Even Arizona's like, yeah, you're kind of right You're kind of right What about Cal Golden Bear?

You get me because of the You know, it's like they had the bear on the flag, the bear flag for California. Okay. And then UCLA's the Bruin, which is the other sort of bear. All right. You know, you have Baylor's the bears. I'll allow it. I'll allow it.

By the way, so as we were talking about the High Point Panthers, currently trailing Purdue 67-58. So that is where things currently stand with the games. And then after that great conversation that you had earlier in the week with Auburn head coach Bruce Pearl, they're getting ready to tip off here in about 10. 10 minutes or so, maybe closer to 15 minutes. All right, here we go. Let's take a look at the NFL. Well, we know that the San Francisco 49ers lost a lot of talent.

That also including Debo Samuel, who is a member of the Washington commanders, Adam Schefter reporting that Debo Samuel had a little bit of a contract adjustment with Washington, giving him a fully guaranteed salary of 17 million for this year, a little bit of a bump off his previous contract that he was on with the 14. Niners and reportedly a potential up to 3 million in incentives. How do you like this Debo fit in Washington? You know, here's what I like. I like that they can take that chance because they have their quarterback on a rookie deal

for the next couple of years. And so, you know, you can go short-term overpay for a Debo who's often injured and maybe not the guy that used to. But the other thing is, it's like a, it's one of those pieces for Cliff Kingsbury. that you kind of got to like, right? Yeah, absolutely. I can use him his running back, I can use him on jet sweeps, throwing the ball occasionally.

Again, it's all about your position salary-wise. If you're Washington and you have an elite young quarterback, you get him another weapon while he's under that deal. And then once you re-up him, and by the time he re-ups, it's going to be probably $100 million per year. Sure. Then you're going to have to jettison a couple players.

Yeah, I mean, and to that point, obviously we see that everything's different in today's day and age of the NFL as the salary cap just continues to go up, up and up, meaning that we just saw Jamar Chase get a contract of annual value in the $40 million per season range. So if you even get some modest production out of Debo Samuel, who will be 17 million, you're in a good space. You're in a good space. Sure. Okay. And we talked a little bit about this earlier with the rule change proposals from NFL teams coming out around this time of year the Packers putting in a rule change to ban the Tush Push Brotherly Shove.

This one coming from the Detroit Lions. Playoff seating. They no longer won it based solely off of division winners. They want it to come down to record. Obviously, if we look back for this past season, here's what that would have meant. The three wildcard teams, the Vikings, the Packers, and the Washington commanders. Well, two of them lost. Correct.

would have been higher seeds than the Rams or the Bucks who each won their divisions? I'm going to erodis! Oh, you like the division winners? Well, I don't think there's a perfect system. Sure. And I use the NFC North as the perfect jumping off point.

Okay. Why was the NFC North? Why was the record better than everybody else in the NFC? I'm guessing maybe something to do with scheduling for that particular year? Who did they cross over against? The NFC?

West and the AFC South. The NFC West was down. San Francisco had all kinds of injuries. Rams just okay. Seattle was down. It was the other team. And Arizona was just down. Right? So, I mean, you look at

the Green Bay Packers. I know this because I went to seven of their home games, right? They only won one division game, and that was against the Chicago Bears when they when Chicago doinked out a field goal to win the game. Right.

But they went to the plus. And I actually think Green Bay was really good. Sure. But they didn't do it in division. They did it where they crossed over against. You know, they played Tennessee who stunk. Indy who didn't have a quarterback. Jacksonville, who wasn't very good.

Houston, they beat at home. Great football game. Went over the Cardinals. Went over the Cardinals, which was at home, right? So the point is that the schedules aren't equal. So I don't think you can go by raw record. I actually think there's no perfect system. And you're trying to, much like everything else, when you're trying to make something that's imperfect, perfect, you end up screwing up even worse.

And that's my music with news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lye News. Oh, the best for last is upcoming next. Wait to hear what Brunny had to say. That's next in The Herd. One more Herd?

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. David. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Kavino and Rich?

We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too.

Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio on the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And, of course, on social media. That's Coveino and Rich.

Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to our...

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL,

late-night comedy guide, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm Bray. breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Doug Gautlyman for Colin's the heart, Fox Sports Radio, IHartRadio app. Are we ready to call this one for Purdue? It looks like that way. My son Hayes Gottlieb's in the house.

Happy 16th birthday to Hayes. He's calling it for Purdue. Maybe that's because he has them in the bracket. I don't know. Or maybe it's because it looks like they're going to win. Braden Smith, huge three that seemed to solidify this thing. Creighton has already taken down Louisville. All the updates you need, plus all the sports talk you definitely need right here on Fox Sports Radio all day long.

Let's get to the best for last. It's almost the end of the show, but that doesn't mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind to the very last segment. It's time for best for last. Best for last takes us to the Lakers where Brunny James said, I see everything that people are saying, but I just take it. I just take that and use it as fuel. Kurt Highland, who writes for basketball talks,

says Brunney has improved the season, but still has a ways to go, especially with his shot. He was always a long-term project. A quote is from Brunny James. My first thought about everything is I always try to let it go through one ear and out the other, put my head down, and come to work and be positive every day.

But sometimes it just fuels, it just fuels me a little bit. I see everything that people are saying, and I feel like I'm an effing robot, like I don't have any feelings or emotions. But I just take it and use it as fuel. for me to go out, wake up every day, get to the gym, get my work in, watch extra film every day and be better every day. That's what Rob, that's Flinka, wants me to do as a young guy coming in,

playing in the G-League, and learning from far, it should be afar, on the bench watching the Lakers play. His numbers have improved, right? Struggle with his field goal percentage was in the 30s and 20s, 30s from field, 20s from 3 in the G-League. He's up now, I think, to the 40s and 30s. in the G league, which is, which is in fact improvement.

It's going to be fascinating. Here's what people are saying. I love the using it for fuel. That's smart. You have to use all negativity for fuel. And I have no doubt that it's got a few like a lot.

I actually have a tremendous amount of empathy and understanding for Brani in what he's trying to do and how much he has to feel like the weight of the world is on him. that's why I suggested, and of course they're not taking my suggestion, that this season he goes and plays for like LeBron's high school teammate, best friend, who's the head coach of Duques, go there, get buckets, improve, then go.

But LeBron didn't want that. Didn't want that. So the issue has never been, at least for me, that Brony shouldn't want to improve. And again, I don't know whether he can ever get to the point to where he's, a legit NBA rotation player or even a legit NBA end of the bench player. He's not to that point yet. And Cart was put way, way, way, way before horse.

And again, if we're honest, I think anybody who has any jealousy, it's not over, it's over the fact that why would he get this opportunity to develop when he's never been viewed as that level of prospect never been viewed as that level of prospect from in real NBA talk but none of that actually matters now now that he's in the G now that he's on the Lakers bench

it's just about can you do the work can you make the shot and can you get in the like look here's what's really hard when you get to the NBA the rules are more difficult. You know, eight seconds to get across mid-court. Deeper three-point line, shorter shot clock, wider lane. Okay. And oh, yeah, by the way, you're playing against the 450 or 449 best players in the world.

And you're doing it usually in a shorter period of time than you've ever done it before. Most guys come in from college or high school, and they play most of the whole game. and now you've got to come in like, hey, dude, in two or three minutes, you've got to change the game and guard your guy hit an open shot. That's incredibly difficult. It takes years upon years to make that transition. The one thing Brony has going for him is he's never been a star. He was not a star go-to guy in high school. He was not. He was not somebody who scored 40 in high school, get on my back. Like most future NBA players are.

He's always been a bit of a role player. That adjustment isn't great. He's actually had to learn to take more shots and probably taking too many being encouraged to to take chances while he's in the G league. But I don't see any negative there in the, hey, I hear everything that people are saying I'm using it as fuel. Great, you should.

Prove people wrong. Prove people wrong. Hey, man, I'm trying to do the exact same thing in my profession. Right? Prove people wrong. They have, we have no idea what you go through. They have no idea what I go through. And honestly, nobody cares.

All they care about is when you get the ball, end of the game, in the corner, or when you get in, can you make a shot? Can you guard your guy? If you can do that, regardless of what your name on the back is James or not. Those same people who doubted you will then get in line. So I think the criticism or the critique is fair because I think most of it is not really about Bronner. it's more about LeBron putting Brani a situation where he's not ready for. And I have no doubt that Brani obviously takes that personally. LeBron takes it personally.

That's why LeBron came at me. That's why LeBron came at at Stephen A. Right? Because it's his son. Anybody says something about my son? Like, we're going to go. I love my kid. More than anything on earth.

But there's also the reality of, hey, you're a dad, but you're also LeBron James. to who much is given more is expected. On the other hand, I'll back LeBron in this standpoint. I've said this before. If the worst thing he's done is force his son too early into the NBA in comparison to what other fathers have and have not done, we're talking about a pretty good dude. Right.

May not be my best player of all time, but definitely not a bad dad for trying to protect his son and trying to help his son pursue his dreams. even if he's been, by my estimation, a little too forceful, and he's benefited a little bit too much from it. All right, enjoy the games. I'll be back tomorrow. You can see our picks online.

Just go to foxportsradio.com. See how you did against our picks. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurt. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French name.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart, Heart women's sports. The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply

well with Debbie Brown if you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you can. Get Your Podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.