The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Caitlin Clark's impact, Chris Broussard

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

Colin discusses the power of Caitlin Clark and her vast economic impact to the WNBA. First Things First cohost Chris Broussard joins Colin to discuss Karl-Anthony Towns' big game and how the Knicks need to open up their rotation, plus previewing the next phase of the Timberwolves-Thunder series.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Wherever you may be, however you may be listening. My buddy Chris Broussard, back from the Indy 500. I watched the Indy 500 yesterday. First time, I think it was ever a Spaniard had won the Indy 500. Let me tell you, the pitch stops in the Indy 500. Fox did a great job, so it sold out for the first time in years. And the sports had some controversy. The camera placement by Fox, and it's the first time I've ever sat and watched like 90% of the Indy 500.

I mean, I probably have earlier in my life. I don't know a lot of the current drivers, very international. But the camera placement by Fox, if you have any doubt, when they put that little lipstick camera, just not on the infield, but just on the interior of the track. And those cars are flying around. It is intense. Did you watch any of it? No, I was at my daughter's volleyball tournament in Anaheim. I got to brush up on my Indy 500 knowledge.

We may take our show their next year. Maybe we could get a lipstick camera on you during the commercial breaks. I've been pushing this for like over a year now. I move slow. Not nearly as dynamic as the Indy 500. By the way, the Knicks took a riveting game three. The Knicks took it over the Pacers in Indy. Thanks for an incredible comeback in the fourth quarter.

night in Indiana really became a what kind of man are you type of game for New York. Two things happened. Number one, Carl Anthony Town said, I'll show you what kind of man I am. I'm going to single-handedly take over the fourth quarter. Listen, the dude, he has quarters like this. He averaged his 23 a game in his career. When he was in his prime, Carl Anthony Towns always ended up near the top of those GM surveys they do. Who would you start a franchise with? He doesn't play any defense. he's a little quirky, but he can dominate games. I've been to three or four games where he was playing, and he was the best player on the floor at some point in all those games.

And the second thing that happened, and this does not happen very often for the Pacers. They lost their way offensively. So Halliburton ended the third quarter, beginning of the fourth. So end of third, beginning of the fourth, about four and a half minutes, he was on the bench. in that time, a 15-point lead evaporated to four. And then he comes back in, and they just never quite felt the same. Again, Indiana, it's hard to get them off their offensive game, but even when the Knicks were down, four, three, two-point,

it felt like they were in control. So the Pacers are a rhythm team, and that they have the fastest pace in the league. And they got out of their rhythm. And all of a sudden you had knee Smith and other guys, McConnell trying to run the offense, it's like, bro, that's not it. This is Halliburton's offense. They lost their quarterback.

They only shot 36% in the second half at home and shot 42%. That's the worst half of basketball for the Pacers. And just to give you in the playoffs, to give you another example, it flashed on the screen. At one point in the first half, they had 14 fast break points. They were running the Knicks out of the arena. in the second half, total two fast break points. Halliburton sits, they lose their rhythm, he comes back in, tries to kickstart it, and he never could.

And what did we talk about last week? Whoever controls the tempo is going to win the games and or the series. And the Knicks compressed it, slowed it down. And also, and this matters, the Knicks. hit their last 15 free throws. I know that's not a glamorous headline, but remember, game one, the Knicks had control, and they were missing free throws.

Open the door. This was the opposite. They were controlling tempo. In game one, they lost tempo, missed free throws. Here late, they controlled tempo, hit free throws, and so they were a better road team than they were a home team. The road team has won every game in this series, So the Knicks slowed it down, hit the freebies, and I thought their defensive rotations were much better, especially when you had once Halliburton sat down for that stretch.

And you see this in football all the time. You have momentum. You have a bad series. You have a fumble. There's a turnover. And you can never find the momentum again. It's hard. Momentum matters and especially matters in playoff games.

So we have ourselves a series. The Knicks blue game won. It kind of felt like they stole. game three. Indiana felt like the better team in game two. We've got a series and here's Tibbs. In playoff basketball, I know you guys like roll your eyes when they say no lead is safe, but no lead is safe because I think with the three-point shot, people make up ground quickly, pace the game, make up ground quickly. You see you see comebacks all the time and if you let up just a little bit, that's what happens. Okay, so this is a story. You know,

may be wondering. I don't think it's going to make a big deal either way, but Aaron Rogers, according to Jeremy Fowler, there are people in the NFL, and Jeremy Fowler works at the SPN, very good reporter. He is saying there are people in the NFL, many that believe Aaron Rogers is waiting on Minnesota. I don't know that to be true, but I will say this. Aaron loves to make people think he's a mystery and the media can't figure him out. And he does that because it invalidates us. And we're the one group of people he can't control. He's worshipped by football people.

He's loved by teammates. The one group he can't control us. And so he wants to invalidate us. And he's not J.D. Salinger. It's not that mysterious. The Steelers are a shaky fit, and Aaron knows it. He doesn't want to offend Mike Tomlin. It may be if he wants to play his best spot, but they can't figure out offense.

I've gone over this a million times. They're tone deaf to offense. They just, they, I think they're now making moves just to make moves. Let's just move off George Pickens and let's get a pick. And let's overspend for DK Metcalf and they're just making moves to make moves. So there are reports and I don't care about his personal life, that Aaron's personal life, he's going through some turbulence. You wish him well. I don't want to get into any speculation there.

But I just think Aaron is too smart to think the Steelers are. good fit. The O-line's been a wreck for years. The O coordinator position, they've run through him. They lost Naji Harris. Their left tackle. And by the way, it does matter. He went from Green Bay, which has always had an offensive culture. They always get quarterback right. They always have offensive coaches. They always have good offensive lines. Green Bay does offense right. And they've been doing it right for 30 years. Pittsburgh does defense right. And the only two times they've done offense right, they had Terry Bradshaw and Big Ben. And in between that, they're not the same franchise. They win games. They don't win big games. And that's what Pittsburgh's going through

right now. They've been a bottom 10 total offense six years in a row. And that's hard to do when you look at the two New York franchises and Carolina and some bad offense in this league and the Bears. So the Vikings makes a ton of sense. Great, brilliant, offensive head coach and play caller. They play indoors. He knows the division. They have Justin Jefferson. They upgraded their offensive line in the offseason. There's also a story that's interesting. So Aaron was apparently on some podcast and said when asked about the saints, because we don't know exactly what the saints are doing. Is it going to be a Spencer Rattler? You know.

And Aaron Rogers was quoted saying, yeah, I'm too old. I don't want to live in Louisiana. Sorry. So what that means is where Aaron plays matters to Aaron. He is thinking about it. He doesn't want to live in New Orleans. So that's another reason. Indoors, knows the division, NFC.

He moved over to a defensive culture, playing outdoors in the Northeast, with the Jets, and it was a mess. Aaron doesn't want to do that again. And Jeff Perlman came on last week. He wrote a book about Brett Farve, and Aaron was all through the book. And Farve didn't treat Aaron very well. And I grew to kind of respect what Aaron had to go through. But he made a point about where.

Aaron's played and the fit is really crucial when you consider Aaron's personality. I just think over time, especially being in a small Midwestern town surrounded by the Midwestern quaintness of Green Bay, I think Aaron Rogers really started to believe. I'm the smartest guy in the room. I know everything. I am very intelligent. I know more than the coaches. I know more than my teammates. I know more than this fan base. And again, if you can contain that in Green Bay, Wisconsin, it's one thing. You're treated as a god. Once you go national, once you go to a different franchise, it doesn't really play out that well. All right.

Caitlin Clark, as also reported earlier today, is going to be out for, what was it, J-Mac? Was it two weeks? They're calling it two weeks with a quad-strain. That was not visible during the telecast of the game. Yeah, listen, hey, we'll see what's going on. Let's see if she shows up at Pacers Knicks tomorrow, maybe heavily bandaged, maybe with a heating pad to watch the game. Obviously, that's a huge one, you know, for Pacers and Nixon. Caitlin Clark's been at a lot of the games, you know, friendly with the team.

I was sitting last night with a couple of guys that go to college. They're sports fans. They're in college. And we were just talking about a bunch of stuff. And one of them loved the UFC. One of them was a huge hockey fan. And one of them was in a frat, a Big Ten school. He was in a frat. And we got into this conversation about Caitlin Clark. And some people in the room were sports fans. some were not, most at least the young boys were. And he said, in my frat, he said, literally if Caitlin Clark was playing, that's what all the guys wanted to watch in the frat.

Now, I mean, what does that tell you? For 23-year-old guys, they like their gambling, they like their football, they like their UFC, he said, no question. If Caitlin was on and there were choices, that's what people wanted to watch. And I think that's the Taylor Swift effect. Like people that you would not see 55-year-old, 60-year-old women wouldn't normally go to watch a young pop star. And then they go.

I remember when Shania Twain was getting people that didn't like country music to country music concerts. And I think that's what Taylor Swift is doing. She is getting people that just traditionally don't watch that league. They may be casual basketball fans, but the phenomena, that's what Tiger did with golf. There are a lot of people that didn't play golf. and don't play golf, but they found Tiger fascinating.

And then when you can bring the casuals in and even non-fans in, I mean, it's one thing to bring casuals in. A lot of people, a lot of great athletes have done that. You're a casual basketball fan, but you love Steph. But to bring in, like, non-basketball fans or people that don't watch a sport or a league, that is Tiger and Caitlin. People were watching the NBA before, Michael. They just didn't watch it as much.

I mean, what she's doing to the WNBA is remarkable. Collin, I will add, you kind of buried the lead there. You're hanging out with frat guys? You move away from me and now you're hanging out with frat boys? What's going to wear a tank top to work tomorrow? What's happening? Well, sometimes you've got to show the gun show out a little bit, feeling good about myself. Chris Brousard's around the corner, live, it's the hurt.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. First people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast. We could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

help make you funnier. This week, my guest, and L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends

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Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me?

Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

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Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Chris Broussard is going to be joining us. A little over 10 minutes. Good game last night. We've had three really good Nick Spacer's game.

had game one and blew it, game two, indie, game three, Pacers have it, and the Nick steal it. So it's, you know, these are close games. I will say, J-Mack, the one thing about O KC in Minnesota, I was looking at a stat here, OKC of the four teams left, is the one team. You get a different team on the road than home. And that, I think a lot of that is on age. They're basically the deep, young team. And young players. rotational dudes away from the comfort of home. We see this in college basketball. Like you see big swings on college basketball teams home and away.

You're dealing with 19-year-old guys. So it's funny. OKC average 1, 23 and a half at home, 105 on the road. Like that's a different basketball team. Here's J-Mack with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, you're all excited for the Indian.

500 yesterday with the first Spanish driver ever to win the race. Continuing his hot streak, here he is. It makes this extra special that I'm the first Spanish driver to win it. But honestly, if I was the 50th Spanish driver to win it, I would be as happy as I'm now and as proud as I'm now. I learned something yesterday. The track was cold, and that had a huge effect on the drivers. I would not have thought that.

So they talked in great deal. It was a hard track. The pit stops were crazy. one car caught on fire. But overall, it's, you know, it's an international sport. And I found the broadcast pretty captivating stuff. Yeah, big, big Sunday in Indy with the race. And then, of course, Pacers Knicks, super exciting time for the city,

except the Caitlin Clark injury. That's the only down news. Let's move on. Hey, listen, Colin, I lifted the Aaron Rogers van last week. What a mistake that was. Third straight hour with more Aaron Rogers news, Colin, because he's doing, he did a podcast. Over the weekend was asked about retiring a Packer.

A Green Bay Packer. Here's what he said. I've thought about that. And I don't understand what the reason for that is. You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan. And most of my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the cool thing about it. But if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the Packers' eyes?

There's a lot of love for me and how I feel about the team. If I do or if I don't, I don't think it should be. make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it, I probably would. How about that? What's wrong with this guy? Okay, so if you're not going to retire a Packer, you certainly are not retiring as a jet. Nobody remembers you. So what are you going to just retire as an NFL player? Why does he consistently do nonsense like this? He's trying to sound all erudite and I'm philosophical about this, Colin. What does it matter if I retire a Packer or not? Like, really?

Yeah, I think it's like that Facebook high school relationship. It sounds better than a reality. Remember, they were tired of Aaron. Like Green Bay was tired of Farr. And I've told you this, that I have always supported Farrb and Aaron Rogers. I call it the Green Bay quarterback theory. Is that if you go look at Farrb and Aaron Rogers, they couldn't be two totally different people.

They became the same guy. precious, using leverage, passive aggressive, threatening retirement, and then both went to the Jets, and it was ugly. The difference is Farrb then reinvented his career with the Vikings, who, by the way, that's the team that reportedly Aaron's most interested in. But I do think that because you don't have an owner, you're not ultimately held as accountable as Tom Brady was by Robert Kraft if he was going to be difficult, not saying he was or Peyton Manning by the late Robert Ursa. You don't have an owner. It's the smallest town. You can't go to the grocery store.

You are really the biggest player. You're the biggest person in the state. I mean, as big as Brady was in New England, you got the Celtics, you got the Red Sox, you got the governor, you got the politician. It's a big city with a lot of stuff, big corporations. You get to a point where you are worshipped like no other sports market in the country. And I think it gets, I think that would do that to anybody. I mean, Farve started doing things that were like not discreet and really bad judgment.

and Aaron, I think, is smart, but lacks a certain self-awareness because he has been in this tunnel of love and worship for like 15, 20 years. The problem with this whole, like, who I'm retiring as nonsense, is I don't think you have a choice. Aaron Rogers, you won the bulk of your games, MVP's Super Bowl in Green Bay. That's how you're remembered. You can't decide, well, I'm going to retire as a jet. Like, it doesn't work like that.

Nobody thinks of him as a jet. I mean, I'm trying to think of an example. where it would be dicey. Even Joe Montana, he couldn't say, I don't like what the Niners did to me. I'm retiring a cheat. Sorry, pal, it doesn't work like that. You were dominant with the Niners. That's how people remember you. Would you agree with me? Am I right here? Yeah, I mean, listen, Aaron, if he retired today, would not be the professional, first professional icon that had a choppy ending. Go look at where Ewing ended up, or Michael Jordan with a wizard, or Johnny Unitas. Those are still guys like Patrick Ewing, isn't it?

Michael Jordan was a boy. That's how you're being remembered. Nobody's going to remember Aaron's brief stay in New York. It just, it's like, you go back and look at the Wizards in MJ. The players didn't like him. It was rough. Like it was rough. They didn't win.

Nobody cares. Aaron's legacy is set. In my head, I'm trying to think of one. So Tom Brady won in New England. Goes to Tampa and wins also. But I'm sorry. Tom would admit this. He's a New England patriot.

Like, that's how you're. remembered, right? You can't just decide, hey, man, I don't want to retire a Packer. I don't think it works like that, does it? Well, it's, I think, I think if Aaron retires tomorrow, is anybody going to be surprised? I would rather, I mean, once you get the trophy, once you get the money, and once you have more than enough fame, I mean, Aaron, every time I see him, he's, you know, he's in shorts and a T-shirt, like, he's not out there at the, at the New York Met Gala. Like, Aaron pretty much lives his own thing and does his very private guy, right, in his Malibu Conflay. So on-play.

So my take with Aaron is, I don't know what the value, other than getting hurt, I mean, Steelers don't have a left tackle. Other than getting hurt, I don't see the, he doesn't need the money. He doesn't need the fame. His legacy is set. I'm just saying, if I was Aaron, at this point, I just retire. I'd be comfortable with what I established. How about this, Colin?

In the NBA, LeBron and Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, they're all old at the end of their career. Nobody wants them to leave. Everybody wants them to stay. The league needs them. Aaron Rogers, I think people at this point are like, eh, I don't really care what he does. He's not a factor. He's not a superstar anymore. Sorry.

Well, that's because there's very few LeBrons and Steph Curry entering the league because the NBA draft is full of 19-year-olds. The college draft gives you two to three superstar quarterbacks every couple years. So there's this pipeline. I mean, we've talked about this. The NFL gets about 15 wide receivers a year from college who can play immediately. So because you have to stay in college for three years and most guys stay for four, you get a microwavable, ready to play, plug-in-play star, and so you can be replaced much more easily.

I mean, very rarely do you have a team like the Pittsburgh Steelers this year, that you're like, wow, they don't have a quarter of a quarter of a quarter of, back in the room. I mean, Cleveland's got five. Everybody's got at least competent veteran leadership in the room. The Steelers are an outlier. So you're just so much more, not that you're Lamar Jackson's replaceable,

but the pipeline college football to the NFL is much stronger than college basketball to the NBA. Final story, Colin, is Luca Donchich was spotted over the weekend at a Real Madrid game. Now, if you glance quickly at the screen, I don't know, you wouldn't know which one it is.

because apparently he's skinny. Luca Donchitz reportedly, now this is based on guys who are analyzing the photos, has slimmed down. I'm seeing a little love handle action there on the side. Not that it matters. It's Luca. It's freaking May. Who cares? But do you think he looks skinnier there?

What are your thoughts? No. Yeah, I don't see it either. But that was like the pile of the game. I don't think he looks bad. I just think he looks like Luca. I mean, Luca's thick. He's sturdy.

That's what he looks like. Built like a tank. Yeah. Bit of a soft tank. But it's not like he's out there wearing Smedium shirts to show off the guns like your boy does. You know me all weekend. Tank Top Smedium. That's how I roll.

Okay. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lye News. Let's go to Chris Brousard, co-hosts First Things First, joining us live from New York. So, you know, it was, I was talking about this earlier. I'm not surprised Carl Anthony Town had a big game.

I mean, he's a gifted offensive player. But it was interesting. Halliburton leaves for about four minutes, end of the third, start of the fourth. And Indiana just lost their mojo totally offensively. He comes back. They kind of find it. But it's interesting, Chris. My interpretation was Indiana is not just about talent.

They're really a pace team. They're a rhythm team. And when Halliburton, end of third, early fourth was out for four and a half minutes, Chris, I don't think they ever found their rhythm again. And so I'm not discrediting the Knicks. Their rotational defense was better. But some of this was it showed, it illustrated how valuable Halliburton is to the pace of this offense. Yeah, absolutely.

Look, like you said, give the Knicks credit, particularly Carl Anthony Towns, was scoring the 20 points in the fourth quarter, hit the threes, attacked the basket, got to the free throw line. So they deserve credit. But you're absolutely right. and what you're acknowledging is how great Tyrese Halliburton is. And I was speaking with an agent about this this weekend, and he was bringing up that Halliburton doesn't always lead the team in scoring. I said, this dude is a true point guard, and he doesn't have to lead the Pacers in scoring to be their best player.

He controls the tempo. He sets the pace. He gets the ball to the right guys. He determines, for the most part, very smartly, when he's going to be aggressive as a score, when he's going to sit back and get the ball elsewhere. We're not used to seeing true point guards anymore, Colin, we're used to seeing the point guards that score first

and pass second. Jalen Brun, and I'm not even disrespecting them. They're great a lot of them, but Jalen Brunson's Exhibit A and Steph Curry and Damian Lillard, so a lot of them are phenomenal players. But when we see a Tyrese Halliburton, we almost think, ah, he only gives you 20 points a game. Magic Johnson was a career 19 points score.

I'm not saying Tyrese is Magic, but he is a true point guard who can lead the league and assist and give you 9 to 11 a game and then also get your 18 to 24 points. He's a great player. He is truly a phenomenal player. Yeah, and again, it is a rhythm team, and they lost their rhythm and they couldn't find it. You know, it's interesting about the Knicks. I was saying the Knicks actually, you know exactly what they need. So they need somebody, they don't shoot threes particularly well.

And because Brunson and Kat, Chris, are poor defenders, it's hard to have them on the floor simultaneously. So if they move off Kat, who of course has a market, you keep Robinson for defense, you would say, okay, we need a three-ball shooter, a secondary score, who's, doesn't need the ball in his hands. We need some length because we're losing Cat and a willing defender. Is that not Kevin Durant? Check, check, check, check, check. I mean, they don't, is it not is it not KD? Look, I love KD with the Knicks with Carl Anthony Towns and Jalen Brunson. I look, he's better than Kat. I'm not denying that. But I'm not at this point in their careers. I'm not giving up Kat for KD because cat rebounds better, you know, he's cat gets in foul trouble.

He's not a great defender, obviously. But I just, I'm kind of done with the KD experiments where he has to be like the first guy. I mean, I get Brunson would be the first guy. But to think I'm going to get rid of Kat and bring Katie in here and the Knicks are going to be the best team in the East, I'm not really going there. Again, if I can get him without Luke. losing Kat, then certainly, you know, and that'd be a nice big three, because KD would be the perfect piece with them. But what I do, Colin, if the Knicks go ahead and lose this series, I think what they need to do,

and I said this on the show before about Tibbs, you know, job security, certainly keep Tibbs, no question about that. But the Knicks need to look at how do we make our offense less Brunson-centric and more, get more, Like, when you look at the Pacers, they move the ball. They, the players are moving. The Knicks are stationary for the most part. And what that does is you don't know which Pacer is going to have the hot hand. Could be Halliburton, could be Seacom, could be Neesmith or Nimhard or, you know, somebody, the big guy, you know. So it could be a number of their guys.

That's where the Knicks need to get because Miles Bridges is really good, a score. Josh R can have his moments and O'Jana Nobi can score so I just think they need to become a little more egalitarian in their offense because look they're certainly not better without Brunson but notice there are two

game turning runs game one when they took control right the 14-0 run with Brunson on a bitch last night 16 to 7 run into the third quarter when Brunson's out or to early in the fourth when he comes in they go on a 16 to 7

to run to get back into the game from down 13. So it just shows you they have the depth that usually Tibbs doesn't use. And they also have other guys that can score the ball when needed to. So I think they should look at that. Yeah, you know, it's really interesting. You just pointed out two things that are true. Brunson doesn't always elevate others and he's a poor defender. Halliburton's a better defender and elevates everybody but not as great as score.

And I think if you look at the Knicks, they're a bi-prone. product of Brunson's game. You taught me this years ago. Your game is your game. If Brunson's your point guard, then you have to have a catch and shoot shooter. You've got to have somebody that can be like a Clay Thompson in his prime. Somebody that can watch him and just get it being the ball in the corner and shoot. You can't have another. That's why Brunson and Luca did not work because they're both ball-centric. Whereas Halliburton is the opposite. He, he, I mean, he'll just go into distribution mode, pace and distribution mode. And for like eight minutes and you look up and he hits maybe one three.

So the Pacers have had ten different players lead them in scoring this season. Seacom, I think, led him in scoring for the regular season. So I do think the Pacers are a product of Halliburton style. He's their quarterback and the Knicks are of Brunson style and so you have to work from there. I want to go to the other series that's interesting. Now there's two, you know that depth can be overreact. in the playoffs. It can be a little overrated. Oklahoma City is the only of the four

teams left, Chris, that you get a literally different team on the road, 105 on the road, 123 at home. My take is their youth, their young players are not the same playoff games on the road. They look at times

overwhelmed, which gives me the thought that, oh, Minnesota's got a heartbeat in this series. Do you believe that today? Yeah, I think that's a great point. You know, I've been skeptical about OKC because of their youth all season. Like you said, we all know role players don't typically play as well on the road, and that's what you're pointing to.

Minnesota absolutely has a shot because they didn't just win game three. They made a statement, Colin, 42 points? Leading by 45? Like, that does not happen to OKC. And this group for OKC has been in the playoffs two years. all right. They've lost seven games in those two years by a total of 49 points. They've only had two losses in their playoff history, you know, this group, by double figures. And both of them were 12 points. So they have never been beaten by more than 12 points

until Saturday night. So that is a mental statement that Minnesota made that, hey, we can impose our will on you. And the key for Minnesota, is not to turn the ball over, which they did in games one and two. They didn't do that in game three. That didn't allow O'KC to get out and score in transition. And then you had Anthony Edwards and Julius Randall play well together. That's the first time in this series. Those two have played well together in the same game.

If they can get that in game four, they can even up this series. And then we really got something to look forward to. All right, Chris Broussard. on after us first things first at the indy 500 the last thursday and friday shows as always it was great to watch good seeing you buddy thanks collin see you know it's interesting jac mack you play still like play a lot of basketball i really think the nicks and and two things can be true you can love a player like jalen brunson and realize there are two liabilities with him he has to have the ball in his hands and he's a poor defender and those are both true that's why if you told me you

who would I take to lead a franchise? I would take Halliburton. Because with a new roster construction and aprons, you don't get multiple stars. Meaning, Halliburton can give me 20. He's not the closer, obviously. Well, he's a better.

He's longer. He's a better defender, and he's a much better distribution pace guy. And so it goes against what everybody believes. Because in basketball, in our history, the closers, the man. But the league has changed. right like it used to be four years ago just get three closers get Durant Steph Clay

get closers you win you can't do that anymore so the league is moving into a direction of get you can have a closer but the perfect team is a I think this is why I think now Indiana doesn't match up great with O KC but if you had to choose Halliburton or I think 90% of fans would take Brunson over Halliburton but my take is defense matters in the playoffs one's a better distributor one's a better score but the other can score and I think the length

of Halliburton and his herky jerky style I think he's just hard so I again that's a tough one because I know but because of I mean as we're talking about Brunson we acknowledge like you could put anybody in the league you could put with Halliburton any player would

work Janus any player you could not put Luca with Brunson You're like, well, they both need the ball. Wait a minute. You couldn't put Hardin with Brunson. Brunson got to, I think, the conference finals in Dallas? They didn't work.

I mean, they scored, but they were both terrible defenders. Well, yes. So you couldn't put Kyrie or Hardin with Brunson. You couldn't put everybody with Hallibur. Well, the interesting thing with Brunson yesterday, and it's tough for Nick's fans to talk about, Colin, he was awful. He was terrible in that game. He sat out, I believe, the first 10 minutes of the fourth quarter when they came back in a must-win season on the line.

If he was on the bench, and to do that without your star is a little weird. I don't know what to make of it. Maybe it's one game. No, no, no. The two biggest runs by New York have been when Brunson's on the bench. The one four-minute period, the Pacers went into the tank. Halliburton's on the bench. So the answer is in front of you.

Get over your emotion. No, no, no, no, no. That's not debatable. No, no, no, it's not. It's two games. Brunson and Kat can't be on the floor together. But it's the problem. The counter, and I'm going to defend my guy, Brunson. Nix don't sniff this round without Brunson, obviously. He's an elite point guard. They needed him. He's the most clutch player in the league this season.

That's right. That's right. Kirk Cousins can win you a division, but he's a liability for a championship. There is a ceiling with Brunson. Small can't defend and has to have the ball. This is just tough. And again, people are not going to want to hear this. Take the fan hat off. Okay, fan-hat off. For watching the fourth quarter, they can't play Towns and Brunson in crunch time together because they get annihilated.

That's two terrible defenders. So who do you move off of? If you replace towns with a great defender, can you keep... It's easy. You're talking yourself out of easy stuff. You keep Brunson. He's the quarterback. But he is absolutely as great as he is.

He is a liability on the defense event. So you can't play a. with Kat. Seacobham and Halliburton are magic together. Just ask yourself this. Everybody works with Mahomes. Everybody. Not everybody works with Tua,

because he can't throw a deep ball in bad weather. Everybody works with Halliburton. He works with every player. Brunson works with a guy that you couldn't play him with Hardin. Kyrie. He needs the ball. And you also have to put him in a back court with guys that can defend

because he doesn't. He'll get picked on. This sounds a little like early Steph Curry, specifically when they lost in 2016. Remember as well, Curry can't defend. Guys, he led the league in steals. I know, oh, steals don't matter. Okay. That's not that, no, but again, you're answering your question.

What did the team have? Draymond, best defender in the league, Clay Best Guard defender in the league, and Andre Aguadala. So the warriors acknowledged, Steph's a liability. So we went and got Iggy off the bench. Clay, they had three elite defenders.

So that's what the Knicks. The problem is the Knicks are like we need the scoring with Brunson, but Kat's a terrible defensive player. So that's why Indiana is going to win this series. Indiana is just going to be able to, oh God, yeah. I mean, it's sure? Yeah, they'll go win game four. So quick note, I saw somebody called it up.

Apparently the Pacers have outshot their opponent in every playoff game from three, except the last game where they were five for 25 last night. What if this has been an incendiary run from deep? I think they're shooting 40% from three in the playoffs, and all of a sudden they cool down over the next few games. They're not going to cool down. Their teams are what your game is your game. They'll get hot.

They're at home. What about the knee with injury? I'm reaching, baby. I need my Knicks of the final. Yeah, but it's hard from New York fan. It's like, well, we couldn't be. here without Brunson, absolutely. But that means you're a playoff team. Like there are certain players like they create stability. They create leadership. Dak Prescott, good enough to win a

division. You put him in a playoff. You're all of a sudden like, oh, he's like the seventh best quarterback minimum in the playoff. So Brunson provides a closer. He provides leadership, intelligence, work ethic. But there are holes in the game. And they're just ask yourself, when LeBron was in his prime, even ball-centric Kyrie could play with him. Wade could play with him. And Wade wasn't a great fit. Everybody could play with LeBron. I would say Jason Tate.

Well, no, Jason Tatum. He fits on every team. Clay Thompson in his prime. He fit on every team. Dee Wade played with Shaq. He played with LeBron. He played with Bosch. Dee Wade could play with anybody.

Players that need the ball in their hands and slow down the offense can't play with everybody. I'm telling you, Halliburton is one of those six guys in the league now. Maybe there's four. You could put him on every team in the league, and the team would be better. If you put him on Minnesota, they're the champs. I think we need a new top ten list, best players in the league. Is Halliburton on and Brunson off? Yes.

No, no, I'm saying. You could put Halliburton. Halliburton, Aunt Randall, Gobert, is the NBA champ. Indiana, maybe the NBA champ. Oklahoma City. Halliburton to SGA and that bench. Hallett, you put Brunson on Oklahoma City.

Well, you're taking the ball at SGA's hands. What good is that? So, I mean, again, I like Jalen Brunson, but Halliburton is, dude, he lubricates every team in the league tomorrow. You're looking at a special player.

We break. It's the hurt. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our.

own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special.

So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. Morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, We break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across.

When Jacob met Levant this plant to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

What are they, Chris Broussard, an 18-year NFL vet Matt Hapes. Hasselbeck for joining us on this Memorial Day Monday. We talked a little bit about Aaron Rogers. Aaron Rogers said a couple of different things as he was at some public setting. A, he's not going to play for the Saints. He didn't want to live in Louisiana showing that where he plays matters a lot. It's not just about playing. He wants the right fit.

That's why Minnesota is interesting to a lot of people. Secondly, he said he wouldn't be opposed to playing in Green Bay. If they asked, he'd probably go. So it tells you didn't have, you know, he doesn't necessarily have to be, the starter he's telling you. He's telling you he doesn't need to play forever. We saw an earlier report where he'd be willing to play for $10 million. So it sounds like Aaron he wants to get comfortable.

He would be comfortable according to reports in Minnesota. He knows the division. He acknowledged at this public event he would be comfortably being a backup in Green Bay. I mean, those are Aaron's words. Those are not mine. So that's kind of a revelation that he would be willing to go back to Green Bay. he said if they asked I would go. That's kind of a game changer to me.

It shows me where his head's at where he understands. New York was bumpy. By saying, quote, saying, I'm not going to play in New Orleans. I don't want to live in Louisiana. He's telling you where he plays matter. It matters. That's a huge part of it. That's why the Pittsburgh thing never felt right to me.

Here's Hasselbeck earlier on Aaron's options. The quarterback free agency situation when you're at the end of your career, it's very similar to musical chairs. There's only a certain amount of chairs. When the music stops, the music stops. And so I've been saying this for a long time. I believe I said it on your show. Aaron Rogers is going to be with the Pittsburgh Steelers.

It needs to be mutual acceptance. And the music's about to stop soon here, and he's going to have to sit down or get out. It just feels like it would just be, it would be better than the jet season, but nothing resembling his Green Bay career. It just, I mean, I think they're a six to seven-win team with their current quarterbacks, mostly on defense and coaching. They would be an eight-win team if Aaron Rogers show up.

They go from six to eight. And you say, well, he's much better than Will Howard. He's not younger. He's not cheaper. He can be prickly. He doesn't want to necessarily. We don't know if it works with Arthur Smith. They don't have the run game.

I think Najee Harris is a big loss. I think it's a big game for the Chargers. I think it'll be a notice. game loss for the Steelers. He won't have the run game. I think the running back for the Jets. Breeze Hall is better than the current running back situation for Pittsburgh. I think the Jets left tackle situation today is better than the Steelers left tackle situation.

So I think Pittsburgh feels like a bunch of nonsense and a really bumpy seven to eight win team and the risk of getting hurt again. Hey, can I give you a name from your list of four that I would swap in for Gino Smith? Go ahead. Debo Samuel to Washington. I thought about that. I thought about that. Last year, Terry McLauran was bottled up in a couple games.

They didn't have a counter punch. And I just wonder, Kingsbury, smart guy, knows how to scheme dudes open. I think Debo could be in for a super clutch year. Because remember, when McClureen was taken away, it was like, hey, Jaden, make a play. Just go run wild and get a third or fourth down. Now you've got Debo, who's a great yak guy. I think that's a huge, sneaky big pickup for Washington. I agree.

my only concern is Debo can get dinged up because of his style. And so, like, is he playing 11 games? If you told me today, 14 games, yes, 11, no. And it usually takes time to kind of work him into, like, an offense. But I thought Debo was the one that I thought. I mean, I think George Pickens actually will help Dallas. I just think that my ceiling is so low on their overall roster and they're running back room and the like.

All right, we're done. First things first around the corner. Matt Hasselbeck, Chris Broussard, J. Mack. We'll see you tomorrow. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin.

And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021.

And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts.

The story I've told myself can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast Deeply Well with Debbie Brown. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to Deeply Well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.