The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Caleb Williams

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

Thoughts on Ben Johnson's comments on Caleb Williams' growth so far What to expect from the Patriots this season   Guests: ERIC MANGINI, RICH OHRNBERGERSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey, Jonas, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice.

Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying.

You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis' keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the, iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Therapy is fantastic, but once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access. On the podcast, Cultivating Her Space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high-achieving

individuals. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The HARD podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. The home you've worked so hard for is. ready to work hard for you with a home equity loan from Rocket Mortgage. To learn how you can turn your home's equity into cash, visit RocketMortgage.com today, Rocket Mortgage LLC, licensed in 50 states, NMLS, Consumer Access.org, number 30, 30. Welcome back into the herd. I'm Danny Parkins in for Colin. Soon you'll be able to catch me on first things first, but you can always catch this man.

He is a staple of FTF. Former NFL coach of the year. Manjini kind enough to join us on the herd. Coach, thank you very much for the time. Looking forward to working with you more closely soon. Yeah, that's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. We can give Nick a hard time together. Oh, it's one of my passions in life. It's become a passion of mine as well. It's fun. It's fun. You know, the guy who says he's undefeated in sports arguments, It's fun to kind of back him into a corner and laugh at him.

But help me out with these stories. You know, Terry McClure and he was holding out, but then he's back. Trey Hendrickson, holding out, and then he's back. You obviously would deal with this, but Hendrickson's the most high-profile one. Are you surprised at all on how this has gone down between Hendrickson and the Bengals? I'm not completely surprised at all. And you were talking about before the break, the $50,000 fine, And the difference for the $50,000 fine now versus what it was before is that fine is not forgivable.

So when these guys are getting hit with that $50,000 number, even when the deal is done, someone's got to pay that number. So either the team's got to compensate the player for the $50,000 per day. So look, if you go over the course of month, it could be over a million dollars, a million and a half dollars, or the players got to deal with that, where previously when you redid the contract, you could forgive the fines. So those numbers are more meaningful. And with Hendrickson's situation,

he signed the initial four-year deal, and then two years into that deal, he wanted some more money. So they gave him $8 million up front. They gave another $8 million guaranteed, and they added a year to his deal, which is this year right now, which he's unhappy about.

So I understand from an organization's perspective, the organization's perspective that they don't want to have to keep redoing deals. And I understand from Hendrickson's perspective, too. He has been outstanding, and he's been outstanding on a team that is in desperate need of defensive players that are outstanding. So he's got a lot of leverage as well. So they've got to find some sort of happy medium to give the team a chance to be successful. And what's been in Cincinnati's biggest problem is slow starts, right?

slow starts have killed them. So if they don't get Hendrickson back until the start of the season, and he doesn't play as well as he could, that could be part of another Cincinnati slow start and another problematic finish of the season for him. So in Dallas, there's also a contract story, but frankly, I find the contract story is a little tedious

because they ultimately get done. And we're parsing millions of dollars for millionaires already. But the big story in Dallas to me, anyway, is Brian Schottenheimer and where they go from there. Like, Michael will get done. Shottie was on your staff so you know him. I was surprised that they hired someone who was already with Mike McCarthy. What will the differences be between Schottenheimer and McCarthy?

You know, I think Brian is an underrated candidate. And when I hired Brian, one of the things that I really liked about him is not only was he smart and had good relationships with players, but he was also flexible. So he had a system that he ran that was really had given us problems in New England that I wanted to bring with me to the Jets. He was willing to run that system, but he was willing to incorporate other things into that system in order to make it our system, in order to take advantage of the players that we had. And I loved that flexibility that he showed.

And now, look, it's been quite a few years since then, so he's learned a lot. He's got a ton of experience. and he's a first-time head coach, just like all these first-time head coaches are. But I think he's got just as much potential to be successful there as any of the other first-time head coaches. I want to follow up on that. I feel like I always hear coaches say, I'm going to build the system around my players, around the personnel that we have. But then there are so many examples, and I'm a Bears fan. I saw it in Chicago.

Matt Nagy trying to fit Justin Fields into his system was probably the most prominent example of my fandom where it was very clear that they weren't really building a system around the player they were trying to fit the player into their system why is that so difficult for so many coaches to actually do build a system around the talent that they have well when when you're raised in a system and when you've had success in a system and you've seen it work at a really high level which most of these guys who have gotten head coaching jobs that that's been the case and then you go to a new program and that's your expertise, you tend to want to bring all those good things and show the group, hey, this has real value, which is great, which over time can work really well. But you also

have to understand that, and this is happening right now a lot, Danny, in training camps, is you go into a season with who you want to be, and then the good coaching staffs figure out who they need to be. That's the difference between good staffs and great staffs is knowing who you want to be and then realizing who you need to be in order to be successful that year. And you have to have enough humbleness and openness to say this isn't going to work right now. It's not that it's bad. It's just not good for us right now. And what's best for the player is that we do X, Y, and Z that he's really good at.

And when I brought Brett Favre in New York, I wasn't going to try to run our system that didn't fit Brett Favre. I was going to do the things that Brett Fav did really well to make sure he was the best version of himself. And you saw that in Tampa Bay with Tom Brady. Initially, they were doing, you know, they weren't doing what Tom did really well when they pivoted towards what Tom did really well and ended up bringing him to the Super Bowl. And it's the same thing with young players too. You just got to be able to take a step back and say, hey, this is. This is good. It's just not good for us right now. The best thing is what's good for this player who's leading us.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two hours. show, we never get to everything. Honestly, because this guy is overpromising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubber lips. Blame and me. Well, you know what? It's called overpromise. You should be good at it because you've been overpromising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show, and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course,

but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Overpromised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Overpropes. Promise, and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Overpromising.

And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing.

a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL

late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funny. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people. people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs.

And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genschen went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerna Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, Founding Partner, a... I heart women's sports. I think one of the most fascinating stories in the NFL this year is Travis Hunter because of what Jacksonville is trying to do with him. And they are saying, we're not only going to try it, we're going to do it. We're going to play this guy on both sides of the ball at camp so far. He's split in terms of first team reps on offense and defense. It's been

50-50. And coming up, they're going to do the first practice where he does both in the same day. How would you manage an athlete like that as a coach? Yeah, so in New England we had Troy Brown, different athlete. He had played, I think he was in his 11th year as a wide receiver, had never played on defense and pro football. But we worked him in camp and ended up playing on defense as well as offense. And that year, he played more defensive snaps than offensive snaps. But my approach with Travis Hunter, and I think would be most efficient,

is start them on defense, let them play full time on defense. because you can't guarantee what the other team's offense is going to do. So let's say you want to have him in dime defense, and they come out, and they're playing a bunch of things where you're going to have to play more dime than you wanted to, and he's got to play more reps. You don't have control. But if you start him on defense, say he's playing full-time there, and then you play him situationally offensively,

that to me is the best approach to it because you control when he goes in. So play him on third down, play him in the red zone, play him in two minute on offense and play him full time on defense and control what you can control with the athlete and give him the best chance to maximize his talents and impact on both sides. How many guys do you think are going to be raising their hands and being like, I can do it too? Yeah, look, there's a lot of guys who believe they can do it. And even with Travis, the difference is every athlete he faces is good. And even the guys that are considered not great in the NFL, are probably on the highest end of the guys he faced while he was at Colorado.

So to go down in and down out against the best athletes that he's faced, it's hard to do. And we're not talking about 12 games. We're talking about 17 games. And that doesn't even account for the preseason. That doesn't account for how much longer the season is. That doesn't account for how much bigger the playbook is on offense, how much bigger the playbook is on defense. And as much as he wants to do this, organizationally, they're going to have to protect.

protect him from himself. Because the wear and tear is a big thing and they want him all season long and they want him to have a very long productive career. So I hope they don't burn them out here too early and they let this build at a rate that's sustainable. So we're going to be working together a lot more on first things first. And so you've been exposed to Nick Wright's lists. And so now I want to show you a perfect list for a change. I just felt like I'd help you out a little bit. Finally I'm going to get a perfect list. Exactly. I see no flaws in my top 10 quarterback list, coach. Eagles fans seem to have a lot of problems with it, but I'm curious. Mahomes 1, Herbert 5, Baker 9, Jalen Hertz 10. It looks perfect to me. What say you? Okay, so looking at this, I absolutely agree with Mahomes at 1. I think your 2, 3, 4

are completely interchangeable. I think if you put those three players up and said to all all 32 teams, you can draft any one of these three players. It would probably be split, you know, in thirds in terms of who guys would want based off of the system they had or which way they were leaning towards. So those guys are, to me, interchangeable. Yeah, there's a clear top four. There's a clear top four. The debate is five through ten.

Yeah, so even five through ten, I would, I went Jayden Daniels at five, and I know, you know, we're going into the sophomore year. and there could be the sophomore slump and people are going to catch up. I do think that the difference is not only what he did as a runner, but his accuracy, to me, I would push him to that five spot. With Stafford being my slash there, Stafford and Jaden Daniels, I love Stafford, the fact that he won the Super Bowl, I played against, coached against him for a long time, caused problems,

but his age to me bumps him to six. and then after that I get to Justin Herbert where he is I struggle with his performance in the playoffs that's why I think you got to bump Jalen Hertz you got to give him credit for what he's done in

the biggest moments so I'd probably bump him up and he and and Justin are kind in that next area and then with Jared and Baker I mean it just depends on what you like I mean I'm a little hot and cold on

a lot of problems, Coach. I'll take it. I'll take it. It is. I don't love six and seven. I'm more five and six. Justin, Justin, Jared Baker, they're kind of in a group. And then I get why you have Jaylin at 10, but you do have to, I think you got a great amount of curve based off of performance in the playoffs. He's been unbelievable in the playoffs. The Steelers are such a fascinating team for a number of reasons. I actually like the moves they made in a vacuum for this year. There's huge questions about the long-term ramifications, but I thought that they made sense. My question is, let's say I'm wrong, and let's say this goes poorly, and it is a seven-win season, first losing season under Mike Tomlin, and we're now at nine going on 10 years without

a playoff win, and there's a handful of offensive coordinators and a bunch of different quarterbacks. Is there anything that could actually turn up a hot seat on a guy like Mike Tomlin given that Pittsburgh has had three coaches in the history of their organization? I don't think there should be. I'm a huge Mike Tomlin fan. And what people forget is how hard it is to deal with transitioning after a great quarterback. So Bill Belichick, after a great quarterback, not very good, right? Sean Payton without Drew Brees. pretty different equation than what we're used to seeing. And it's the same thing.

No Ben Rothersberger, and they haven't had the losing season, which to me is remarkable, but they haven't found their answer at quarterback. And finding that answer at quarterback, everybody's chasing it. And that's why when these great quarterbacks become available, all the teams that are quarterbacks starved, they go and see if they can hit on them. So whether it's Aaron Rogers at the Jets, and now Aaron Rogers in Pittsburgh or, you know, take your pick. It was us with Brett Farr, trying to capture some of that magic. Russell Wilson, when he got traded, it's, you're hoping that this is the answer.

You're hoping that Aaron Rogers is over, you know, wanting to be GM, wanting to be head coach, and now just wants to be a great player and a great teammate and a great contributor. maybe it's not the level we've been used to seeing him at his high point, but hopefully it's a better level than we've seen him since he's left Green Bay. Football season's here, coach. This feels good. It feels good to have hype. It feels good to have, like, we got a game on Thursday.

Are you a play for guys in the preseason guy, or are you, you know, risk averse like me? I'm scared of injury. Yeah, it's, it's, this is always the challenging part. It's this time of year figuring out whether you want to play your stars or not, and then it's at the end of the season when you've made the playoffs and you're trying to figure out whether you want to play your stars or not. And it's always the, what is it, rust versus rest philosophy. And I think you want to get some reps for your guys

and have them feel what it's like to work together, even if it's a limited exposure, so that the first time they're seeing action isn't in game one. but I understand why a lot of head coaches say, yeah, I'd rather him be rusty and available than hurt and not available. Eric Mangini, Fox Sports NFL analyst, former coach of the year. Looking forward to working with you on FTF and we'll be watching later on today. Thank you, coach.

Awesome. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. That's Eric Mangini going around the NFL with him and we'll be watching, like I said, on first things first. Drake Mayhype, it's real. I feel like I own all the stock in that kid. loved them coming out of college.

Penn State also expectations for a title run. We'll ask about that with former Patriot and Penn State star Rich Ornberger. Next, Danny Parkinson for Colin, The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

for people to call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down in my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody

wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen should win. I mean, she went down. I mean, she went down. I wanted three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.

Back in on the herd, I'm Danny Parkins in for Colin. Football is fast approaching. We've got Rich Ornberger on the show. He was a fourth round pick of the Patriots, played his college ball at Penn State, and he's got a radio show. This is a radio show name. Big Rich, TD, and Fletch.

I love it on 105 KGB in San Diego. Rich, thank you so much for the time. Patriots draft pick, let's start there. Drake May to me passes the eye test. I love them coming out of college. He had no talent around them. He had a real tough offensive line situation.

Obviously, they fired the coach. What type of trajectory do you think Drake May is on right now? Look, I mean, anytime you switch coaches earlier in your career, I can hamper your development. Drake May is a gamer, though.

I got to call his holiday bowl game in San Diego, and I was impressed with this guy. I mean, he was the best player on the field, in my opinion, and he stood in good company that night. Drake May, he can make all the throws. He is a good enough athlete to play in this league. It's just a matter of how plastic his mind is, how quickly he can switch from one set of coaches

and one set of cultural orders to the next. Look, one thing we know is Mike Vrable has gotten more out of lesser quarterbacks than Drake May. So in theory, this sets up well for him. Plus, they're making an investment in protecting him better on the offensive line. Plus, you know, Vrable's going to be committed to the run game first and playing staunch defense. And that's a talented defense on the other side of the ball. So he'll get second chance opportunities. That defense will get him the ball back.

So I think the trajectory, the path that he could be on is one for success, and it may be quick success for the New England Patriots. That's an interesting way to put it, how plastic his mind is and changing the coaches earlier. I never heard it put quite that way. I mean, so it applies to Drake May. It applies to Caleb. How do you tell if it's going well? Really, it's like learning a different language, right? So, okay, so you've been around people who are quick studies at languages, right?

You know, they seem to just understand how to immerse themselves into cultures. They pick up context clues really well. They're able to relate things back to their language of origin and quickly avoid mistakes. And that is going to be the real test here. It's not whether or not Drake May knows football. We know he knows football. That's the reason why he was drafted. The question is, how quickly can he change languages?

And so when I say a plastic mind, I just mean somebody who is easily moldable. and can fit into a new system running a new language. And language is key in a football program. Everything has to be communicated, and it all starts with the quarterback. So that is going to be the biggest hurdle this training camp for Drake May, but overall the New England Patriots, and especially on the offensive side of the ball. So if you're doing radio in San Diego, you're still talking to a lot of Chargers fans, even though they're in Los Angeles.

I'm a huge Justin Herbert fan. I feel like he'd been let down by the franchise that hadn't really been living up to his talent. Coach Harbaugh spoke to that earlier in the week. He's followed a Peyton Manning track. Similar win-loss records, similar touchdown numbers, no playoff wins in his first five years. Peyton broke out. He got Dungee in year five, breaks out in year six, is co-MvP and is in the AFC championship game. I think he's on that trajectory also.

What of the struggles, I guess, of Justin Herbert have you put on Justin Herbert to this point in his career? self-preservation. It is really difficult to teach this to a competitor, but Justin Herbert needs to know when the battle's lost. And I know that sounds counterintuitive, especially in a sport as competitive as football. But he has to understand when a play is dead, when it's time to fall on your sword and take the sack.

There are smart sacks to take. There are good opportunities to get rid of the football. Not every play needs to turn into a dynamic, first down or an effort at a first down or an effort at a touchdown. Sometimes the smart choice is to play chess, not checkers. Look, I get it. King me is fun, but you know what's more fun? You know, trapping, you know, the king with Knight at E1. Look, I don't know chess, but I do know football and I do know that he's struggling a little bit,

protecting himself in games. So yeah, look, he hasn't been surrounded by the best talent, the best coaching, the best skill at times. Certainly the offensive line has had its issues, injury being one of them. But he needs to really, Jim Harbaugh really needs to hammer home the point that they are not going to win many football games

without Justin Herbert in the huddle. So he needs to start taking care of himself better. So speaking of great athletes, they all are you were. Travis Hunter is a extra great athlete. And I think he is going to change the way we view what these athletes can do. They're clearly going to play him two ways. He clearly wants to play two ways.

What is reasonable to expect from Travis Hunter as an NFL player? Travis Hunter is going to be better at one of these positions than the other. This isn't college football anymore. These are trained professionals who have been at this for a very long time. And they're going to be fits and starts with every career, even for the most talented. but when you are trying to understand the nuance of two different sides of the ball when the bright lights are on in the NFL and you're not playing against guys who are, you know, in certain cases in college football,

playing college football for the first time since high school and still miss their mom and dad. You know, they're only divorced by 12 months from being grounded for the last time. You know, these guys you're playing against and preparing for, they've been in the league for 12 years sometimes and have been catching passes against defensive backs at an all-pro level for five to eight years. So Travis Hunter is going to face those challenges as a defensive back in the NFL

and then you turn it over to the offense. The hits are harder. The windows are tighter. The timing is faster. So he is going to struggle at times. He is going to have successes, obviously, because again, this is why you draft a guy in the first round.

because you're counting on that. But I think what we're going to see is it's going to be pretty obvious which side of the ball he's more comfortable playing. And then there may be a conversation. And it could come as soon as the halfway point of this season, do we abandon this idea at first that we had that could be game-changing? Or do we stick with it and potentially have a guy who is above average on both sides of the ball as opposed to having a guy who's elite on one side of the ball?

So you've been in locker rooms, you've been around guys who made a ton of money, and I'm sure you were around guys who had issues with not making enough money. It's a story in Washington. It's a story in Cincinnati. It's the biggest story in Dallas, so we can put it there, but also just to globalize it. How big of a deal ultimately is it if player is unhappy with contract, like say Micah Parsons is unhappy with the Dallas Cowboys? It's a problem until it isn't a problem anymore.

You know, look, the business side of this game is a really important side of this game. You have a short window to make life-changing money. And Micah Parsons deserves life-changing money because he is a franchise-shifting player. So he's going to get his. He's going to make every attempt at getting his. And Jerry Jones is going to do Jerry Jones things. And we're seeing a lot of that. I know you're following it closely, Danny.

But as ugly as it can get sometimes, one thing that all football players, especially football players, as talented as Michael Parsons do, is compartmentalize. Whatever's happening in your personal life or your business career, you have to separate and be able to go out and perform.

He's been doing that at an elite level for a long time now. And my expectation is, regardless of how sour or dower these negotiations go, regardless of how long they take. As soon as he hits the field, he's going to get right back where he left off. And the sooner the better, because obviously you want your defense to congeal.

You want there to be some suredness in terms of working together with all the guys on the fields, playing their roles at practice, and in whatever preseason action they see during the actual games. But yeah, you know, just speaking broadly about talented football players

like Micah Parsons, once he's through the rigors of the negotiation, he's going to get back to doing what he loves and what he's great at, which is sacking quarterbacks and making impactful plays on the defense for the Dallas Cowboys. He went to Penn State. You went to Penn State. Same level of athlete.

Obviously, there's no question about that. Do you believe that Penn State deserves to be the favorite in the Big Ten this year? I do. I do. They return a tremendous amount of talent. They have a quarterback who's worthy of carrying that weight, who's made clutch plays, and has made mistakes. I mean, we are reminded every time the replays of that Notre Dame game come over there. He obviously has things to clean up, but great players make mistakes and learn from them. And that's part of being great, is not repeating, you know, those confounding moments that can really hurt your team in the moments that matter the most. And, you know, in terms of coaching and culture, I think, I think what would coach James Franklin has done with Penn State has been nothing short of miraculous. I mean, if you think about where this program was when he first took over, you know, it was, it was only one coach separated from the scandal and the exit of Joe Paterno.

And a rebuild was still in order. And he ushered Penn State football through that era into a new era of success and arguably the most successful window that they've ever enjoyed. So I believe fullheartedly that this team can win the Big Ten. If I'm not the first to say it, I believe they will win the Big Ten. They do need to perform in the big moments. And that is going to be the biggest task of this season. We know they can win.

they can win at a great rate, but can they win in those big moments? That has yet to be answered, and that is the question they must answer, and I think they will this season. Then quickly, do you think Aller is a good pro? Like, is he a good pro prospect? He does. He does translate well to the pro game, just size and athleticism, kind of the same way we were just talking about Drake May. Good enough athlete can make the throws. Has shown great composure in moments. Obviously, there's always work to be done. But one thing that you love to see out of a player in terms of whether or not he can hack it at the next level is anticipatory throws. And he's good there. You know, he gets the timing down with his receivers. He finds the windows. He's clearly reading defenses. He's no dummy. I think

he'll be a good pro one day. But he's got his work cut out this season. He's got a lot of work to do ahead of him still in college football. For Penn State, Nittany Lyon, former draft pick of the Patriots played six years in the NFL. Rich Ornberger, thank you so much for taking time for the herd. Thank you, Rich. Glad to do it, Danny, anytime.

Thank you. We'll talk again soon. That's Rich Ornberger here with us on the herd. And yeah, we are one month away from Ohio State and Texas. Some of the best players,

the best draft prospects, Downs, Jeremiah Smith, and yes, Arch Manning, trying to live up to absolutely impossible hype. Hey, you've thrown 95 passes in college football.

You're the favorite for the Heisman trophy. in the second favor to be the national champion and people think you're going to be the number one overall pick. No big deal. It's been a tremendous honor. It's a ton of fun whenever I get to sit in for Colin Coward. Thank you so much for listening and watching The Hurd. Hey, guys, it's us of the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. but, you know, tired and sick, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to you. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most people around here help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it. Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health. Because most people out here really care.

Find more information at loveyourmindtay.org. That's loveyourmindtay.org. Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.