The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Chris Mannix

Episode Date: March 4, 2024

In this hour of The Herd, Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated and The Volume joins the show and pushes back on Colin's take that the Boston Celtics' championship window is closing, what he makes of the Milwaukee Bucks while under the leadership by Doc Rivers, the Lakers' incomplete roster (according to Colin), and more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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we go. Hour three is going to get feisty. I can tell you right now. Chris Mannix did not like my verbiage. It's the hurt. All I'm saying with the Celtics is, three years you've been blowing people's doors off. Where's your trophy room?

Are you anything here? You had the Warriors done. They went in your joint. Steph Curry took the game over. You've been on the Celtics for three years. I don't like the Celtics, but this team with Tatum's awesome. By the way, There's no shame in losing to Steph Curry in the finals. Oh my gosh, I lost one of the ten greatest players to ever put on a pair of basketball shoes.

Past his prime. He's not past his prime. Wiggins'n's prime. KD. what? They smoked KD. in Brooklyn. I mean, ran him off the court embarrassingly.

I'm just saying, some point you got to show me the money. Tadem MVP? I don't care how the sausage is made. Show me the money. Are you voting Tatum MVP? He's had a good year. He's had a good year. Wemby's my rookie of the year.

I had no issues there. why can't I vote Yokic MVP? You can if you want. By the way, former Celtics player texted me after that rant. Collins' disrespect of the Celtics is all caps insane. All cap for emphasis. All I said was, Ryan, didn't I basically just say, I'm overblown people out for three years? Don't be the Sacramento Kings.

Yep, yep, yep, yep. Show me a trophy. And I think Denver's better, and I think Denver's better mostly because of one guy. Yokic is... I know he's not aesthetically. is pleasing his shack or guy's insane. He's amazing. Mould A.D. and Draymond

over the week. Two great defensive players. He shot 64% I think against the league. Wait, do you say past his prime, Draymond Green? Yeah, okay. Just making sure. Well, despite LeBron becoming the first player to score 40,000 points,

he and the Lakers once again came up short against the world champion Nuggets. Denver Laker games over the last two years. Denver's the best basketball team on the planet. Boston's probably second. But they all look the same. The Lakers absolutely hang with them.

And about five, six minutes to go, Denver ratchets up their defense, and Lakers don't get as many good shots. And then Jamal Murray and Yokic kind of takeover. Saturday night, much of the same, and Denver wins narrowly. And Laker fans were very upset. They were mad at Darvinham. Anthony Davis only had 17 points. The bench didn't deliver, but I actually saw it differently.

Let's start with this. The Nuggets have four elite players. Their four best players are all in their prime. Michael Porter, number one high school player, first round pick, giving you 17 a night in the NBA. He went 10 for 10 to start. 10 for 10 in the game. Number four, put Aaron Gordon,

one of the better bodies length in the NBA. Top defender had 18, 9 and 5. Jamal Murray did what he always does, 24 points, 11 assists, and Yokic best player in the world had 35, 10, and 7, and shot 64%. Their four best players are all athletically in their prime. Okay. Go look at the Lakers. They have one elite player in their prime.

One, Anthony Davis. And because of the injuries, many in his career, he's an old 30. LeBron's not in his prime. He's 39 years old. and Austin Reeves is not an elite player. He wasn't even drafted. He's a really good player who is overachieved in the NBA gives you about 15 a night. Good player. Should be a four on a great team. But this is what the series should be. It shouldn't be this close. If you go look at NBA champions, NFL champions, World Cup champions, baseball champions, generally the core of the team,

the strength of it is overwhelmingly guys in their prime. The Lakers have one elite talent in their prime, Anthony Davis, who's always been a little hit and miss offensively, tremendous defensively. And that's it, and he's an old 30. So the Lakers and Nuggets the last two years have played a lot, 11 times in two years. And the point differential is only four and a half against the world's best basketball team.

Why are the games usually that close? Because LeBron and Anthony Davis are top 12, 15 players in the league, maybe better. And the Lakers have championship length, which is the only way to compete with Denver. The Warriors, 0 and 7 against Denver. The Clippers, 1 and 6 lose by an average of 9. The Sons are 4 and 7 and lose by 8 to 8.5 points a game.

Lakers Nuggets is always close. And what it tells me is LeBron in year 21 is only missing a dependable number three talent and they didn't get him at the deadline. Be mad at the front office. Don't be mad at A.D. Don't be mad at Austin Reeves. The Nuggets have four elite players, top high school, first round, best center in the world, best player, Jamal Murray, Kentucky.

These are elite guys all in their prime. Lakers have like half of one in Anthony Davis. It's okay. Anthony Davis talked about it. All Nugget Laker games look the same mostly. Oh, yes, we're getting closer as far as of, you know, the first, you know, I guess, 42 minutes, you know, or you could say even 44 minutes, right? And then, you know, that last four minutes is just them get into what they get to and, you know,

They make us pay on our mistakes, like I say. You know, granted, you know, they make tough shots. But they get to it every time, and you know it's coming with their great execution team. You tell me, if the Lakers had four elite players in their prime, like, you know, a Shaq and a Kobe and a Rick Fox and a Derek Fisher, and the Nuggets had like three quarters of one, would you expect the games always to be this close? this is what Laker Nugget game should look like. The Lakers championship size can compete with them. Clippers don't necessarily.

Suns struggle. Warriors don't match up at all. Lakers lost the way they're going to lose against Denver when you just don't have that level of talent with five to six minutes to go in the game. So I saw this over the weekend. There's a lot of talk about the DAC Prescott extension. Here's what I noticed with the Cowboys over the weekend.

Tyron Smith left tackle. right now the Cowboys and Tyron Smith left tackle are miles apart. And it made me think about this. Have they wasted his career? So when I started watching football, it was like in the early 70s. I remember sitting watching a black and white TV watching Washington lose to Miami in the Super Bowl. The first great offensive line I ever heard talked about was those Miami Dolphins. And they went to three straight Super Bowls and won a couple of them.

Then it was the Steelers followed them. Mike Webster, the all-time great center. They went to four Super Bowls, great offensive line. After that in the late 70s, early 80s, the Raiders were legendary. Announcers talked about their offensive line. They got two Super Bowl wins. And then I think the Washington, remember they were called the Hogs? They got to four Super Bowls.

That was a great all-time offensive line. The Cowboys with Jimmy Johnson similarly push people around. Four seasons, three Super Bowl. Super Bowls. The only two offensive lines that I can recall that have been stacked with pro bowlers, all pro, Hall of Fame guys that didn't get consistently to Super Bowls are the Kansas City Chiefs. Trent Green was the quarterback. Willie Rolf, Willi Shields, Brian Waters, dominant offensive line. Ray Lewis to this day, you ask him the team he hated to play. It wasn't the Steelers, it was Kansas City. Malled teams. But they had Trent Green.

And the other is Dak Prescott and the Dallas Cowboys O-Line. Tyron Smith will be a first ballot Hall of Famer, eight-time All-Pro, arguably first or second best left tackle since he entered the league. Zach Martens made nine Pro Bowls, seven All-Pros, maybe the best guard in league history. And then Travis Frederick had to retire early. A little bit of late Romo, early Dak, five-time All-Pro, may have made 10 if he stayed around.

Dominant player retired early. and from that to playoff wins. Think about this. The NFC's gotten weaker over the last five years. That's indisputable. Even the Detroit Lions, who this year established themselves as having the best offensive line in the league, left tackle, center, right tackle,

they, the Detroit Lions, the sad sack of the NFL for 25, 30 years, the Detroit Lions finally have the best offensive line in the league, and they won two playoff games this year. Dallas had a run of about seven, eight, nine years, mostly Dax's career, with three Hall of Fame level, left tackle, center, best guard to ever play in a weakened NFC. Two playoff wins. Now, the Eagles O line, I don't know if it stacks up historically good Kelsey Lane Johnson,

but it's been really, really, really good, one, two, or three in the league several years. got to two Super Bowls. So you can blame who you want. You can blame the end of Tony Romo's career. People love to blame Tony Romo. You can blame DAC. I would say there's clearly a lower ceiling than you'd prefer. But boy, Tyron Smith, when I hear the Cowboys are miles apart,

you have wasted this all-time great offensive line. There was a reason they went first-round picks on O-line, because it was bad for years. Tony Romo running for his life. Then late Romo and DAC got an all-timer. Two plath ones in a week in NFC. Here's Jerry this weekend talking about Tyron Smith, DAC, extensions, and all that.

We don't need to, but we can if everybody wants to solve it. You can. And so how is you get in, and get on the same page and see if you can come to an agreement. If you can't, what we have in place works. Dak can play better, and he had maybe, you could argue, one of the best years he's ever had in his career. But the good news is that I'm convinced that he can play better,

and I'm convinced that we can do some things better all the way around, and so we're all in. All right, Chris Manix is hot. He does not believe my Celtics take to the Buffalo Bills. A lot of wins, fun to watch, blow people out, talented Northeast. Everybody thinks they're just a smidge below the best team. No trophies. I don't think it's crazy.

It's one of my best takes ever. Chris Manix will fight it. Jay Mack will echo his sentiments, I'm sure. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, Weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Ben. Host to The Fifth Hour with Ben Mallor. It would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking what in God's name is the fifth hour?

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or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle grahammed. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Chris Mannix has been in Milwaukee. He knows these Celtics. He did not like my take, which I didn't even think it was a negative. The Buffalo Bills for big chunks of my life have been unbelievably talented, star quarterback, really well-run.

and no trophies. And it's like, now, Boston obviously has a history. But if you go back to Boston 35 years, they've had a lot of good teams. This arguably is as, I mean, it's not quite KG, Paul Pierce, Ray. But it's good. But my criticism is I've seen this team blow people out for three years. We love the Drew Holiday move, but he's going to be 33, 34 pretty soon. And he's played, those are a lot of miles.

He defends. He's on the floor. Those are Tony Allen years. like these he's not a guy out there hitting jays he's going to age i think this team i think this year is really really important okay that's the only thing out of your mouth i agree with at this moment because in the pantheon of wild takes that's that's a pretty wild one comparing them to the buffalo bills doesn't make sense because the bills in those early 90s they were a team that from the first super bowl to the fourth super bowl were a complete team they

were they were peaking around those years. This Celtics team was not peaking two years ago when they were still a pretty young team. Last year, you have the head coach of your team go out in a sex scandal days before the start of training camp and you're trying to fix things on the fly. Not to excuse losing to Miami in the conference finals. But Missoula was a kid. I mean, he's a young coach. And that's another one, another beef I have with you there.

You said earlier that a Celtics Denver series. Give one to Malone. One because of Michael Malone. Now, I like Michael Malone as a head coach, but you are looking at Joe Missoula, like he's the coach from last season, the coach that had a deer in a headlights look for a long time, who came from the back of the bench to take over a championship level team

and had to learn how to be a head coach with a bunch of assistants. Some of them that probably didn't like him very much, because they probably thought they deserved to get the job. This year, he has a full training camp, a full off season. he was able to bring in the assistant coach he wanted. He's got Charles Lee, who's going to be a head coach someday. Sam Cassell, who's going to be a head coach someday. And he has shown incredible growth this year as a head coach.

How many times, Colin, have you talked about the Joe Missoula gaffes from last season, the not calling timeouts in key moments? The too much three-point shooting. Yeah, the Celtics shoot a lot of threes, but they win a lot of games because they're top five in the NBA in three-point shooting. This team is, I would say this. Sometimes Marcus Smart, I thought, had a greater opinion of his offense than I think Drew Holiday could score more. Doesn't need to.

You want the number one offensive team in the league? You want him to score more? No, I think Drew Holiday fits because Drew Holiday has, I always felt Marcus Smart wanted to prove I can take games over. And my take was, don't do that. Right. Holliday could, but doesn't feel a need to do it. He's a more seamless third score. He can score, but it's not his thing.

I don't know if he could. I mean, part of the reason the Bucks made that trade is they needed a guy who could take over, who could provide offense that Yannis couldn't, and that was Damian Lillard. Think about how good the Celtics are offensively. You have the Golden State Warriors who have as much brainpower on that bench as any team in the NBA, Steve Kerr, Kenny Atkinson, that entire bunch. Championship players on that roster. And their best strategy to play the Celtics was to lead.

even all NBA forward, who's used 36% from three career-wise, wide open the entire game. That was their strategy coming in. We're going to leave Jalen Brown open, and we're going to try to win that way. Didn't work for him. The Celtics have so many offensive options that all Drew Holiday has to do is shoot a decent percentage from the floor and play the kind of defense he's known for. But the big butt is that the East is pretty weak.

I mean, listen, Randall Brunson, Knicks need another score. They didn't do with the trade deadline. I appreciate their patience. They've been impatient my entire adult life. I appreciate it. Milwaukee's not there yet. We'll get to them in a second. M. Beds out, forget it.

Cleveland's good. Mitchell's gone next year. Maybe at the trade deadline. I feel like they're a little hot and cold for me. You think Mitchell's going to the Knicks? I don't quite buy that. I think Trey Young Lakers. I think Trey Young feels like L.A.,

and LeBron tends to, with players he respects, and I know he knows Trey, because I went to an event this year and they were both at it. Clutch, sports guy. So I don't think, I don't think Trey Young works with Jalen Brunton. He's too loose. Donovan Mitchell shoots a lot, but I think he fits

better. Anyway, my point. Too small. Oh, so here's the other thing about it. Let's just talk in titles. OKC's too young to win. One more year, watch out. Denver's in their prime. Got to get past them. I don't trust Minnesota, but I do like their coach, and they've got size.

Lakers, I thought, needed to make a move this year. AD's finally healthy. But my takeaway is you can't take the East where the Celtics are 33 and 6. I don't care. They're going to fly through the East. The West is a whole different ballgame. I agree.

While I think Denver is the clear favorite to win the West, they're not as clear favorite to win that conference as the Celtics are to win the Eastern Conference because they're going to have some beasts to go through along the way. the teams you mentioned put the clippers in that mix who when they're fully healthy they're as good as any team i think in the western conference so i think Denver is going to be banged up a little bit on their way to the NBA finals now that may not matter because what Denver's showing right now is that the first part of the regular season that didn't really matter to them all that much there was still some championship hangover they were trying to work in some new guys it was tough for some of the

stars to get motivated. What we've seen over the last 10 games where Michael Porter Jr.'s offense has taken off. Nicola Yokic is playing great. The defense has locked down. Peyton Watson, Christian Brown, fitting right into the rolls. Yeah, really good. Vecated by Bruce

Brown and Jeff Green. Yeah, really good. They are starting to rev that engine up a little bit. And when they do, they're going to be really tough to be. All right. Well, we'll circle back to the Celtics. Because I still, I've been saying this for years with him. Is that people, and maybe I'm guilty, I think Tatum's the best domestic player in his prime in the NBA.

Now, I think Steph on Goodnights is better. And I think he's about the eighth best player in the league. That's what I think. He's around there. I still do have, and this is not a criticism, but I think initially he trained with Kobe, and there was this feeling that he was going to keep moving up, and then the exclamation point would be he is the go-to guy. And my takeaway is, I don't think he has that personality. I think he's an all-star. He's a first team or the best player on the second team all-star. I mean, MVP, consider it. But I do think with Tatum, my take is we're anointing him to a position. It's not really his personality. He's a willing passer. He doesn't have to take the final shot. I mean, there were times in Kobe's career, Shacks, like, I can't play

with him. Nobody ever says that with Tatum. Michael Jordan wore people out before Pippen. Phil Jackson talked. Tatum's not this next left. This is what he is. And what he is is, I think Yokich is better. There are other guys in the league I trust with a ball with a minute left. I think you're right about his personality. It's not what Kobe, Michael, some of those guys. Not who he is. Not who he is. That doesn't mean he can't be a closer on a championship team. I think what Jason Tatum has done this year has contributed mightily to why the Celtics are in the position that they're in. His willingness to take a step back to make it a priority to involve Chris Stap's Porzingis and make him the 20-point. very stiff.

The 20 point per game score that he is. Yes, it is a very Steph Curry type of move. But in the fourth quarter of games, there aren't many players that can go to the bag that Jason Tate can go to. He can score up the dribble. He gets to the free throw line now. His three-point shot is legit. He is one of the more efficient post players in the NBA this year.

He has become that guy this year, both in terms of a passer and a shot maker. So when you have that entire bag that you can go to, down the stretch, last three or four minutes, probably not more than a handful of guys I'd want with the ball in their hands more than Jason Tater. I come across like a hater. I'm really not. Okay. Sacramento King's line was a bit. Hurtful.

I love those Kings team. I like those Kings teams way more than this team. You guys all want me to light the beam. I'm over it. The beam's been extinguished. I watched it last year. The old Kings teams I loved. Okay, you spent time with the Bucks.

When I first watched them, it's like creating a new show. You got to give it a year. Dame, your turn. Yonis, your turn. Janice has been a bit westernized. He's getting less patient. Got a coach run out, probably shouldn't. What do you make in Milwaukee?

You spent a week and a half with him? Yeah, spent about a week right before the All-Star break with them at home and then one of the road with them to Memphis. I think they're trending in the right direction. And I think that the decision to fire Adrian Griffin and replace him with Doc Rivers was the right one. Doc has taken a beating over the last couple of weeks for some of the things that he said and as blunt as he's been.

But his philosophies make sense. One of the things he did immediately when he came in was say, we're trying to do too much defensively. Let's get back to who we are, the bread and butter defenses that made us great. Over the last five games where the Bucks are 5 and O, they're the number one defense in the NBA during that stretch. That is an impressive mark for the Milwaukee Bucks. And since Doc has taken over, they have progressively climbed the defensive rating standings in the NBA.

Doc was a good defensive player. known as somebody that he's had good defensive teams right but it all depends in part on the personnel but i'm telling you what he did was take away a lot of the gimmicky stuff that milwaukee was doing and got them back to being kind of the pure tough defensive team you hunt over that screen with good length yeah you use your length you bank on brookelopez and yonison the pain he's gotten them back to that and really if you're milwaukee you don't need to be the top five defensive team you've been in years past yeah to be successful in the playoffs because you've got firepower now yeah you've got Damien Lillard in that rotation.

And he's going to be a threat in the postseason. If they can just be a top 10, top 12 defensive team, they are the biggest threat to Boston the Eastern Conference. I want to talk. So I said Saturday night it was interesting. I watched the Lakers Nuggets. I watched them play several times. They played 11 times in two years.

And the games come down to four, four and a half points, which is the Clippers don't match up with them. Phoenix doesn't match up with Denver. A lot of people don't match up with Denver. Nick strangely do. Lakers do because of their size. and LeBron can kind of control the tempo. And, you know, at the end of games,

Yokic and Jamal Murray just get more good shots. They've got four players in their prime. Lakers have kind of one elite player, which is AD, and he's an old 30 because of injuries. But my takeaway at watching the game was, which has been my take all year, is Lakers match up great with Denver. The difference is they don't have as many good players in their prime,

and I don't trust DeAngelo Russell. Reeves will give me 18. AD will, you know, give me 17 to 23. LeBron will be spectacular. could give me 8 points 24, three assists, nine. I think the Lakers, when I watch them now, I'm like, damn, they should have made

a move at the trade deadline. Yeah, but what move? There wasn't one out there. Like, would you give up the one first round pick you can deal to get Bruce Brown? Does that move the needle enough? No. It's enough to Demmer Nuggets. I understand what the Lakers were thinking in doing nothing. I feel like they need another shot maker. Absolutely.

But you couldn't get that at the trade deadline, not with the assets the Lakers have. You get to June, and you've got three first round picks the deal. You've got contracts that are one year less that you can potentially trade in the case of DeAngela Russell. So you think they'll make a big move? Oh, I think they'll make a big move this offseason.

Now, okay, let me throw... So that's interesting. So I've got the picks and expiring contracts. So a big move is what you're going to need. Picks and two expiring contracts to get Trey Young. I think Trey Young feels like, I don't think Trey Young works with everybody.

He's a handful. LeBron makes... LeBron is the, he just smooths the edges off all players that can be. And shooters tend to play well opposite LeBron James. That's right. I mean, you know, before he got to Cleveland, people forget this about Kyrie. The knock was can't stay healthy, diva. People didn't like him.

An hour later, we're like best ambidextra player in the league, best finisher for a small guy in league history. That happened really fast. I think Trey Young works for the Lakers. Donovan Mitchell goes to the Knicks. they need a second guy. A lot of people push back on Trey Young. You can't play with him.

Do you buy that? I buy that. You don't love him. I think he's the best player that I can think of that's going to be available this offseason. The two best players that might be available via Trader, both in Atlanta. I mean, Trey Young and DeJante Murray

are going to be sought after commodities this off season. Trey Young makes sense because the Lakers offense stinks, right? They're 17th in offensive efficiency. They're 13th from three-point range. And this is not an aberration. This is who the Lakers have been. Even their championship year, they were not a great offensive team. Last year, in the postseason, when they made a run, they did it backed by defense, great defense.

It wasn't great offense. The Lakers need a great offensive player. I think Trey Young makes a lot of sense. You can deal three first round picks. You can deal some swaps. You can deal expiring contracts. You can make a move that would probably entice Atlanta to make that deal. J. Mack.

I always said you should like him. He's got your game. much attention to defense and difficult to play with. But I will say there are players that, you know, just certain guys work. By the way, Kyrie now is playing well with Luca. So that's kind of working. Don't think it does anything in the postseason. Let me throw this at you.

When you heard LeBron say this, everybody when I came into the league wanted to see me fail, that was kind of projecting. As a psychologist, I don't remember anybody rooting against him. I'm sure LeBron, look, athletes interpret things differently, right? I'm sure there were people that wanted to see LeBron fail. And I'm sure he heard some of those voices and amplified some of those voices. But the vast majority of people were excited to see LeBron succeed. This was a time in the NBA where they were searching for a face.

Kobe had kind of taken that mantle. Michael was at the back end of those Wizards years. they were looking for that next great generational start. Here comes LeBron. And I remember watching that very first game against Sacramento, when he had 20-something points, six, it's kind of flirt with a triple-double in that game thinking, wow, this guy is as good as advertised.

So back in 2003, a vast majority of people wanted to see LeBron James succeed. Now, fast forward to 2010, and yes, everybody wanted to see him fail. In Miami. When you go to Miami and you leave Cleveland behind, and you do it in the way that he did with the decision, it turned everybody against him completely. But from the very beginning, I don't know where that demographic was,

the people that were rooting for the broad effect. I understand Boston didn't love him because you guys had KG, Paul Pippert. Like, it was your time. Yeah, but he was a young guy on a team that was rebuilding. He wasn't really a threat until 2007, and they went to the finals. And the rivalry with Boston didn't really pick up

until 2009, 2010. All right, let's circle back. to the Celtics. So Mr. This guy literally is on the Reddit boards, Jason Tatum fan guy all week. If the Celtics, you know, Porzingis, you cross your fingers on his health. So let's say the Celtics get to the finals.

And they just don't match up with Denver. It just doesn't look good. And now Porzinger, you cross your fingers on health. And all of a sudden, Drew Holliday is now 34. Do you think, and I'm projecting, but boy, Boston's an overwhelming favorite to get, I would be shocked. In fact, I would just be surprised if they don't sweep a series. Maybe two.

Yeah, like, I think there's that much. They just, it's the best starting five hands down. At least in the West, there are other comparable starting fives. There are dangerous. O KC's too young, but they can score. Can't rebound, but they can score. And they get extinguished by Denver, and it doesn't look highly competitive. Do they make a move then?

So if my take is so zany, then that should mean if they go and lose again in the finals, the feeling is, we are reluctant to change. I feel like if they don't win, now we start looking at Tatum going, bro, come on now. Steph took you to the cleaners, Wiggins felt bigger, Yokic Murray. I think if they lose this year, your take is less zany than it is right now. Because this year, there's no lingering issues. There's no, we're too young. There's no, our coach is inexperienced.

There's no, there's a finals team that we could play that's more experienced than we are. All those things are completely off the table. And yeah, if they get beat bad by a team like Denver in the finals, I could see them making some changes because Brad Stevens has been proactive from day one on this job. He is. Like he didn't need to make changes last year. There were one win away from going to the finals. Marcus Smart is a beloved figure in this, in the city of Boston. Yet he goes out, makes that deal.

Drew Holiday in, Porzingis in. Both of those that worked. Yeah, we love those that work. So if they fail this season, like failure can look like a few different things, right? I think failure is getting beaten five games by Denver in the finals. If they go to seven and lose the nuggets, I don't know if that's necessarily different.

But if they either lose in the conference playoffs or lose bad in the NBA finals, then we can start talking this wakadoo take of yours about the Sacramento Kings and the Buffalo Bills because they are just not there, yet, Colin. They are legit this year, and they're going to be a problem for whoever they play in the finals. Hey, light the beam.

Nick Wright was on. That team ran into the LA. That team wasn't even that bad. They ran to the LA Lakers year after year. The Southings don't have an LA Lakers out there in their conference. He's just weaker than I thought. I thought I liked it, but you know, Ambide's injury. The Embed injury, although the Southings have owned the Sixers the last few years.

I'm not sure that would have changed the result of that. But you know, I remember last year watching Boston play Milwaukee, and my take was, man, Milwaukee looks slow and old. Austin looks so much more athletic. And I still have, I mean, Dame's not a defender. So he's not. It's not like they got younger.

No, and they're an older team in Milwaukee. I think they're the oldest team in the league. Yeah. And that affects their athleticism. Yeah, they've got some problems on that end. But by the way, your, Donovan Mitchell to the next take is you got to. They've got to get a second. It's not Donovan Mitchell.

It can't be Donovan Mitchell. It can't be. You can't win with Mitchlin. No, you two small guards you can't win with. the problem Cleveland's run into the last couple of years with Mitchell and Darius Garland. Right. Like they they're too small in that backcourt to succeed at the highest level. So who did the

what were the Knicks go? I mean they will keep hunting the biggest of big names. They will keep hunting Janus if things go south in Milwaukee. So that's been my take. Ryan, do we have this tape? I said if Yonis doesn't win a second one with Dame, he's been westernized.

He got coaches fired. Like he's now wants to, he understands the game. European players come over. They play nice. and then all of a sudden they see how aggressive our media is. And we're like, yeah, you won a title. You got to get to two and three. Michael got six, Bill got 11. Like I think he kind of feels like now, it's almost like Calipari, Kentucky.

There's a huge gap between one title and two. One, there's a million guys with a title. And I think Janice, if they regress in the playoffs, I think he's going to go to the front office. And to be clear, he signed that contract this past year, which was as much about the machinations of the salary, cap to enable him over the next two contracts to get the maximum possible dollar. Yes, it was viewed as a commitment to Milwaukee, but it was really about making sure he got

max dollar. I'm with you on this one. If they get beat in the second round of the playoffs, there could be a problem. I don't know that for sure, but there could be a problem with Yonison Milwaukee. That's why teams like the Knicks have been keeping their powder dry as best they can because there are still teams looking to gear up and make a run at Yonnes in the offseason. Chris Mannix, good stuff. pushing back love it see that combative stuff yeah but his stuff makes sense i had to talk him off the ledge

he had five little kids on his team the other team you know some kid got the chicken pox or something they only had four he didn't take a player off the team he's like full court press let's douse him wow that's very aggressive with children that's very aggressive coaching you got bobby knight over here these guys i admire the press i would have done that but he's like rick petino full court press on the division three team. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, the Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

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Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jette. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Good stuff today. On a Monday, J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So I don't know if you saw this, Devin Booker turned an ankle in a lost Saturday night. And D-Book will reportedly be out seven to ten days. He's now averaging 27, 6, and 4 shooting about 50% from the field. Colin, whether it's Beal, whether it's Durant, whether it's Booker. Somebody's always hurt, and I'm just telling you, this is a bad time. They're currently at the 7 seed.

Booker missing three to four games. They fall down at 10 seats. This team to me has been, I should have done it, Colin was wrong. This team's been disappointing. I would agree totally. I thought they would just mid-range their way. to 58 wins, a three seed, end up in the Western Conference Finals, and it just doesn't work. It's, you know, the knock is there's a lot of duplication.

You have a lot of mid-range guys on this team. But it's just, you know, this is the gap. If you put LeBron instead of KD here, and it was LeBron, Beale, Booker, would it feel different? Because I feel like, I feel like they've got a bunch of just get-a-bucket guys, and who's the leader of the team? Well, I wonder if the model works. just get three big stars and then fill it out. Well, they duplicate what they can do. Because all of them, so KD and B will have some injury stuff.

Those guys are a little older. A lot of 17 footers on this team. I mean, you could argue Booker and KD are the best mid-range guys in the league. The problem is, if you do the top 12 players in any series in the West, Phoenix is only having three. That's it. I'm sorry. Grayson Allen is not one of like the nine best players in the series.

And you look at this colony at Denver tomorrow. Remember what Denver did to them in the playoffs. Durant and Booker went off in one game and they won. Then they went off in another. Otherwise, it was Denver rolling them. Phoenix has Boston Saturday. Both these games, no Booker. I think Kevin Durant is headed toward another first round playoff loss.

And they just keep stacking up. He can't get out of the first round. Couldn't do it in Brooklyn. Last year, bounced early. It is interesting. I don't know if it affects his legacy, but it does. How can it not? Basically, if you take Steph Curry out of KD's career, you have a really talented score that can't do anything in the playoffs.

Is that fair or unfair? That's a fact. What you just said is factually correct. I do love him as a player. I love him too, but... You know, could I argue this? He just hasn't made great choices. He's a great player.

LeBron's made better choices. Yeah. LeBron chose Pat Riley and Spolstra, then Kyrie Irving, and then Anthony Davis. LeBron simply made better choices. Kevin Durant also took Kyrie Irving, but it was after playing. No, I said at the time, I thought that was like Mahomes going to the Jets. That was a different Kyrie Irving. I did not like KV going to the Nets.

I thought it was a terrible. I told his agent that. I thought it was a terrible move. I liked the Sun's move. I thought this would work. So did I. I liked it. Phoenix is kind of under the radar.

I don't want to be bashed the legacy. He does have two titles. He's an all-time. Great player. But the problem is if you remove that, all of its other teams are stacked. All of them. And he's not winning anything. I don't know what that says when you've got a great team and a great player and you're not winning.

It says the West is pretty good. And also, we said this about Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. Kevin Durant moved west and Denver popped. You know, Jordan and the Spurs and Duncan kept a lot of people out of the finals. I mean, let's be honest, Denver was the best team last year. They're the best team this year. they'll probably be for the next four years the best team in the West.

Sometimes you just run into a dynasty. Yeah, you ran into a former second round pick, a Doe Serbian, and you ran into a no-time All-Star in Jamal Murray. What can you do? Like, that's what happened to Kevin DeRate? Like, what? How are we doing that? Oh, Denver's a dynasty.

He was a second-round pick. Well, they're not a dynasty, but they look like it. Well, they do now. They're built correctly. Like, I don't, I think that's Sun's model, which is what LeBron did with the heels. That's over. I don't think that works.

anymore. Next up, Kirk Cousins, one of the top quarterbacks on the market this offseason. Free agency opens next week. Vikings head coach Kevin O'Connell was asked about trying to keep their QB in Minnesota. I know Kirk, you know, where he's at in this whole process, he's earned the right to be a free agent. I know Kirk's going to go through a full process. He's a process guy. And, you know, hopefully we continue to be a strong part in that process and we figure out a way to keep a Minnesota Viking. But my expectation is we're not going to be the only ones that would like Kirk Cousins to be the quarterback of our team in 2024. Do you watch a lot of the combo? I didn't.

I didn't this weekend, but I usually do. I just say this. O'Connell hit every note correctly. Well, he's really good. Coming out of that, what's your takeaway? I don't really have one. He didn't give away anything. The best coach in the league that nobody thinks, I mean, we don't know enough with him. That's him. Remember about three years ago? We weren't together. We just started. And I had said at the time, I think Kevin Stefansky is the best coach in the league that nobody annoys is a great coach. And he's won two coach of the years. I think Kevin O'Connell's the best coach in the league that we don't put in the Matt Lefleur, Shannie, Reed. I think he's super bright.

I think what he did with Josh Dobbs didn't even make sense. I think he's so bright. People around the league that I know, they're like, they're game plans. He's a guy that can get people up to speed. I mean, Jordan Addison was way better than I thought he would be as a rookie. Yeah. Everybody works with that offense. He was a quarterback.

You lose Justin Jefferson for a long stretch. He's Kevin Stefansky. He just needs the right. You know, and Kirk Cousins isn't. For the record, did everybody watch Kurt Cousin season last year before he got hurt? He was putting up numbers. Now, they were losing. But he was putting up great numbers.

So I can't tell from that if Cousins is coming back or not because he's saying like everything smart. I think her cousins feels like a Minnesota guy. I would agree. Minnesota nice, nice people, suburbs, family-oriented, very grateful, gracious people. great place. It's a nice place to live. I don't, Kirk Cousins to me, isn't mobility guy. Kirk Cousins probably got kids in school. I don't know. I think he feels like the Minnesota bike. By the way, you said Minnesota nice last week. I love that so much. I used it at a party over the weekend, surprise party. And the people, they laughed. They were like, oh, that's good.

I was like, well, that's the same. I didn't give you credit. I just took it for myself. Final story, Michael Pennix dealt with a rough college career injury-wise, Colin. It's been one of the bigger criticisms getting ready for the NFL. Here he is talking about the injury concerns. If they are, you know, I can't control it at this point. You know, that's another reason why I came back for the 2023 season, you know, just to have another fully healthy season, you know, just show that I'm ready to compete and I could do it at the next level. So at this point, I can't control if there's still questions about the injury history. He's a nice kid. First round pick. I met him in Seattle. I just like him. I like the people he was around. I

like him. He's a very grateful kid because of the injuries. It's like Jamal Murray got hurt for the Nuggets and got very emotional. He thought his career was over. And Denver's like, no, we love you. We got your back. We think you're going to be good. Those injuries sometimes sort of change your perception on, man, this could go

away in a minute. Yeah. So Penix is an easy guy to root for. People up in Washington loved him. You know who could be looking at a quarterback in the draft? Seattle Seahawks. Yeah. They just got... If you're asking me where I want him to go, that's That's where I want him to go.

I'm sure Seattle fans will be upset if they pass on Pennix if he's there in the first time. Oh, I think I got two texts this weekend from Seahawk fans said the same thing. Let's give up a first round pick, move up, and just get Penn. Oh, I don't think you need to move up. I think he's going to be there when they draft. The Pennix love isn't what we think it is among teams. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. We should do that tomorrow. a mock draft on basically players that fit perfectly in a city or an organization. Panics to the Seahawks feels like a slam dunk. That's what they're missing.

They've got young people in draft capital. See you tomorrow. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day

and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

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