The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Jeff Pearlman joins The Herd

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Colin talks to Author Jeff Pearlman on the Brett Favre Netflix documentary, Aaron Rodgers' future, and the new-look Luka Doncic LakersSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey, Jonas, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again,

I was part of you. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis coming to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen point game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Crimless, Rory and I welcome a very special guest.

When I would do a podcast, I wear my sleep masks. I like where this is going. So if you guys will indulge me. That's right. The incredibly talented and hilarious Will Ferrell on an episode dedicated to crimes committed by people named Will Ferrell. You're good for 300 crimes? Yeah. We got two.

I'm ready to go right up to present day. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. to Fox Sports Radio. All right.

He's a bestselling author multiple times. Jeff Perlman, New York Times bestselling offer. He's got the digital series Press Box Chronicles on YouTube. I thought he was interesting today because there's an untold documentary on Netflix on Brett Fav. And he wrote a book years ago, Gunslinger, The Remarkable, Improbable, iconic life of Brett Fav, which I thought, I'd said this at the time when I read it, I thought, I thought Brett Farr. Farve wasn't very nice to Aaron Rogers. It wasn't very helpful. It made me like Aaron Rogers,

regardless of what I think today, but it's a fascinating book. So I'm watching the documentary on him, which is, you know, hero worship for 13 minutes. Then they go after him. Jeff Perlman now joining us live. No's Brett Farb, knows the Packers, knows Aaron Rogers. So I, you know, it's, so we were talking during the break. I've always had this theory, and I call it the Green Bay quarterback theory, is that Farve's a southerner.

Aaron Rogers is a hipster out west, and they morphed into the same. guy is that at the end they got needy, a bit precious, a little rigid, weird, and yet they're different personalities, but you have no owner, it's the smallest market, you can't go to the grocery store, you have to hide on a golf course, and it does affect you. You become literally bigger than life. As good as Matt Stafford is, Stan Cronky runs the show and so does McVey. When Farve started to unravel, Jeff Perlman, were you surprised by it, or did you see things if it made you wonder. I actually think you make a really good point,

which is it's this God complex thing that happens when you're a small market quarterback. Like you said, you can't go anywhere. People treat you like a God, literally like a God. You are the king of the landscape. And at some point, it's just unsustainable. Either you get old, you get hurt, you go somewhere else.

Suddenly you're not treated that way. So you're Brett Favre, suddenly you're a New York jet, you're living in suburban New Jersey, you're part of the franchise you don't know, you're by yourself living in a hotel every day. And before you know it, you're sending penis pictures to an employee of the team. Like, I just think he got so used to being a certain way,

deified, glorified, all of a sudden he's in a new situation, and he doesn't have the maturity or the personal development to handle it. I just think that's the very short story of it all. Yeah. So let's go to Aaron. Aaron, I've always thought, bright.

I think he's well read. I think he's interesting. He's a little iconoclastic. I mean, he's a different cat. He clearly pushes back an authority. It could be the government. It could be vaccines. It could be the media.

He pushes back an authority. That's okay. I am for that. Go back for the people that haven't read the book. Your books are fascinating. The Walter Payton book, I think, has always been lost because you've done so much. That's a fantastic book, and he's the best running back I've ever seen probably by far. So during the Aaron Farr of stuff, when I read your book, I had sympathy for Aaron.

I didn't think Brett was nice to him. Are you surprised what he's sort of morphed into, which is kind of to a fault, I do my own homework guy? All right, so it's interesting. I think, I'm sure you've dealt with these people too. Every now and then sports, you come across someone who believes from the beginning that he is the, he or she are the smartest people in the room. I am the smartest person in this room. Nobody is as intelligent as me. And I feel like Rogers has had that from a very young age.

When he arrived in Green Bay, he really far was terrible to him, like terrible. I mean, there were moments of just like treating him like absolute crap. There was a humiliating time for Aaron Rogers. It might sound kind of quaint in hindsight is he takes his helmet one day. He puts it on a memorabilia table in the locker room. Everyone's signing Aaron Rogers' helmet before practice. He's scurrying around, can't find his helmet. Someone says, that's yours.

It's filled with signatures. He has to go to practice as a rookie wearing this signature filled helmet, and he's mortified and he's humiliated. But I just think over time, especially being in a small Midwestern town surrounded by the Midwestern quaintness of Green Bay, I think Iron Rogers really started to believe. I'm the smartest guy in the room.

I know everything. I am very intelligent. I know more than the coaches. I know more than my teammates. I know more than this fan base. And again, if you can contain that in Green Bay, Wisconsin, it's one thing. You're treated as a god.

But once you go national, once you go to a different franchise, it doesn't really play out that well because people just see you as kind of a douche. So I got to ask you, you know the Buss family well. You wrote the book on the Lakers Dynasty of the 80s, and it's a fascinating book which got made into an HBO series. And it's really, it's one of those you can't put down. I always knew Kobe was difficult.

Then I read the book, and I'm like, how did Phil not go after him? It was just crazy. But you know the bus family, and I've said this to a friend about a month ago, I said, Luca's got a little shack. I'm not sure how committed he is in the offseason. You know, there are games he shows up where I think his mind is elsewhere, but he's good for the brand. He's good for merch. He's insanely talented.

Knowing how the bus family eventually made a decision to move off shack, do you think the kids have some of those same frustrations with Luca? knowing that they literally had to call a meeting about his cardiovascular health after the year. So it'd be impossible for me to put myself in Jeannie Buss's head, obviously. I think number one day, obviously had to make that trade. Like you had to make that trade. You're getting a young superstar in his prime. The problem is, like you touched upon.

Luca, I don't even understand it. You make all this money and your one thing you need to be in the shape. That's it. The biggest qualification of this job is you need to be in shape. And the thing about Shaq that's interesting is when Shaq was with the Lakers, until Kobe really gained some power and really, really started calling out Shaq behind the scenes for his lack of fitness, I don't think the family was particularly bothered by it because he, number one, he sold jerseys, number two, he was charismatic, number three he produced.

And I think Luca technically is the same thing. He does produce, he does sell jerseys. He is pretty charismatic. I think it's going to get really tricky. once Lucas shows up a training camp 30 pounds overweight, once other teammates start calling him out, once you start hearing the whispers, because in this town in Los Angeles,

whispers travel very quickly, and if the Lakers start struggling, and you have this star who's supposed to be great, and he's on the injured list yet again, and he looks doughy yet again, I just think, I don't know what their reaction is going to be emotionally or mentally. I just know they're going to be trapped yet again. All these Laker fans who think, we've escaped, we're awesome,

we have Luca. It's a little bit of fools, goal potentially. You're a New Yorker. Where did you grow up in New York? I grew up in a tiny town called Mayo Pack, New York. Okay. Is that outside the city? It's right outside of New York. Right outside of New York, it's an hour north of the city. So when I worked at the other place, I always claimed it wasn't a Yankee town or a Giants town. It's a Knicks town. Is that everybody loved the Knicks. Baseball and football opinions. And so when I watch Madison Square Garden and I've said this on the air. I'm sorry. That's the best basketball city in the country.

It looks different. It feels different. So you tell you've been to Madison Square Garden plenty of times. It's kind of a spiritual revelation for all New Yorkers. What are you going through as a true New Yorker right now? Well, the funny thing is, first of all I just want to say, I grew up. I was the one kid in my school who was a New Jersey Nets fan. So I was a big, hey, give me a break, man. Big Pearl Washington, Buck Williams, you know, Michael Corrin fan. But the Knicks owned, you are 100% correct. The Knicks are the universal love of New York and the Rangers to a slightly lesser degree. And when it's pumping, when the garden is pumping, when the team is playing well,

there is nowhere like a Madison Square Garden has always maintained its electricity, the air of excitement, the buzz. When you had Patrick Ewing going, when you had, you know, LaTrell Spreewell going. There's something about it that feels visceral and fierce. It's just something different. You don't get it going to a Laker game or a Clipper game. It's something different. And it's an advantage of the Knicks have that you're not going to get if you're the Pacers

or potentially in the finals if you go to Oklahoma City. It's just something really raw. It's kind of like this. When you meet a New Yorker and they're like, yo, you got to go to this place and get a slice and that guy sucks and blah, blah, blah. That's Madison Square Garden. It takes everything about New York and puts it in one building.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to us. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up? with the name Hey Jonas, guys.

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, for people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis.

And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lernerabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the

lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't know if you're prepared for this, but I've been joking that if I don't get invited to the Belichick-Belichick-Jordan-Hudson wedding, I'll be bitter because I'm the only American media member supporting their relationship. And I had this discussion last night. I said, okay, if she was 36, would you be okay with it? If he was 64, would you be okay? I said, in the end, I'm not judging people's relationships as long as both people are here for it. Do I think there's a little bit of her as a willful young woman seeing opportunities?

Yes. Do I think Bill, understanding she's his social stockbroker on the Internet and she's a beautiful young lady, they're both getting something out of it. It doesn't bother me, but I feel like I'm on a total island. Jeff Perlman, what do you make of Jordan Hunson, Bill Belichick? All right, so I have a 22-year-old daughter. and if she came home one day and said, Dad, I wanted you to meet my new boyfriend.

He's 65 years old or 67 years old. I think I'd be a little troubled by this one. I don't, they can do what they want. They're consenting adults. I think it's a little weird. I think her role is definitely weird. I'm sure North Carolina is secretly freaking out and thinking we didn't really,

I don't think we knew what we signed up for with this one. I think that's the big issue here is like the sense of control that she seems to have. have over his affairs. If it was my daughter's boyfriend, I'd be freaked out. I would not be happy. As a spectator, people can do what they want. Okay, yeah.

No, I've said that before, too. I wouldn't personally like it, but I do feel like, in a weird way, both are using each other for what it appears they want, and I don't like to be the moralist. That's not who I am. All right, before we go, you have been writing a book for a year, and you do six, seven, 800 interviews. It's, I don't know how you do it. It goes on sale in October on Tupac Shakur. Only God can judge me the many lives of Tupac Shakur. Give me one revelation in the book, because you obviously had some sense of his music, of his iconic history. Give me one

revelation in the book that it was a jaw-dropping moment for you. Oh, I would say the biggest one is Tupac Shakur. Everyone knows his ashes were sent. off the Pacific in a ceremony in Maui, but Tupac's mother, Fenni Shakur, actually saved it, and he's buried, I'm not going to say where, but he's actually buried beneath a gravesite in a field, in the most out of nowhere, you would never think place ever,

with a tombstone and a headstone. And so Tupac Shakur, whoever thinks was as cremated, actually has a burial site that I actually went to and stood at. So that was kind of mind-blown. So is it in California? It is not in California. it is in the south. Wow.

You just started something. Now, everybody's going to go crazy. I know, I know. Yeah. I'm a Northwest kid. Jimmy Hendricks is buried up there. Okay. All right.

Jeff Perlman. The book comes out in October on Tupac. Only God can judge me, the many lives. Good seeing you again, Jeff. And good luck on the book. All right. Thank you so much. Take care.

Yeah. The Favre, the Green Bay situation with Favre and Rogers, it is just different. I mean, Matt Stafford, think about this, think how great Matt Stafford is. And Stan Cronkey and Sean McVey basically said, hey, here's the number. Right, like, here's the number. I mean, Mahomes has done team-friendly deals. Josh Allen is certainly just part of the Bills fabric. I always feel like if you're Farr or you're Rogers, you're a Packer,

But you're sort of living in a silo. You're not, you know, you're not beholden to an owner. You're not protected by anonymity in a vast North American city where you can hide. I remember years ago talking to a basketball player. He's a really nice guy, Damon Stottemeyer. And he played in Portland for years. He was one of the great high school basketball players in the history of the Pacific Northwest. And he played in Portland.

And he said, you know, I actually love playing in Toronto. And I'm like, really? It's like, you know, three, four thousand miles away. He goes, I could hide. He goes, I can't hide in Portland. And so I think Green Bay is that times ten. I think it does change you. When you are not just romanticized or appreciated, you are worshipped.

Jay Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Now let's start with Cam Ward. and the Tennessee Titans, Colin. I know you're fired up about this team. I was excited in the offseason,

then the schedule came out. It's not great. Brian Callahan, for now, is splitting the first team reps between Cam Ward and Will Levis. Your guy with the bathroom selfies. Here's Callahan on his quarterback battle. They both handled it really well.

I've been pleased with their demeanor and their approach. Will's done a really nice job of getting better at things he needed to get better at. I felt really pretty good about his offseason work and how he's come back. Blessing him. Cam has done a really nice job of integrating himself, and a lot of that is just knowing the play call, being able to spit it out in the huddle, having the tempo, getting familiar with the receivers and what the words mean and how to call it and how your snap count sounds. All that stuff has been really well done on his part. I think we both would agree Cam Ward's going to be the guy, but I'm just curious. Put yourself in Will Levis's shoes. How do you handle this?

Hey man, we just drafted this guy number one. You've been the guy for two years, but like you had your chance. Yeah, no, I mean, it's, I think the organization. I mean, again, it was Will Levis had an offensive coach, a very good offensive line coach. He had a weapon or two. You know, I think Will Levis became what a lot of people that watched him in the SEC. He became what a lot of people predicted he would become, which is his judgment was dicey. He threw really bad picks.

He often didn't see the field particularly well. He looks the part. He's strong. He's athletic. He's got a big arm. He's cut. But he became, I mean, his college tape of Will Levis, he became Will Levis SEC, which was weird plays, bad judgment, not seeing clear defenders in the path of a throw.

And I was not a huge fan. I said, if I recall, I did not really see him as a first-round quarterback. I just thought, I saw him, I saw him make way too many really bad throws. And if you're doing that in college, you're probably going to do that more in the NFL. That being said, right, we talked about Gino Smith earlier. I mean, there's a world where Will Levis is Gino Smith in five years. He can easily turn this around calling. The guy's got some talent.

He's got a big arm. Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't give me that look. Remember, Mark Sanchez, talk to him. He's got some stories about early Gino's. Smith. That guy was not locked in at all. He was a train wreck with the Jets. He's now turned it around. Baker Mayfield, some of these guys second, third stop, Sam Darnold. And Gino, I think, went second round in the draft. So I'm not crushing Will Leavis here. He's got a shot just not in Tennessee. Next up, let's go to another quarterback situation, the Cleveland Browns.

Shadur and Dylan Gabriel are battling for their roles on the depth tart. Shadour says there's no bad blood between the two. Adding, I like how he hits. handle situations, especially just the negative media that's coming his way. Shadur also says that he and Gabriel are for sure learning from each other during the off-season program. And just to remind you, Kenny Pickett is currently the leader in the clubhouse. Joe Flacco, kind of a veteran guy there. I don't buy Kenny Pickett's the leader in the clubhouse.

I don't buy it. Who's starting week one? Joe Flacco starts Shadur Sanders within a month to five week. Go look at Cleveland's schedule if our guys put it up. They're going to have, I already told you, if you look at their schedule, let's give them, let's give them, I don't think this is going to happen. Let's give them the win over Cincinnati at home, although I don't see it. You think they're winning that opener against Joe Burrow? The line's going to be three and a half. It's not that big of a shock.

Somebody, by the way, the last eight years, there's been a shocking week one, you know, and the Bengals O line skeptical. So they lose to Baltimore, Green Bay, Detroit. I think at that point, Jimmy Haslam, the owner, wants him to start week five at home against Minnesota home game Shadour. This is my theory. The coaching staff will win the argument. They'll start Flacco. Flacco will beat Minnesota, lose to Pittsburgh, and then Shadour is going to get the start around that Miami, New England, buy space. Yeah.

I know, Brian Flores' defense, I think that would be dangerous for Shador. He ain't starting against the Jets in week 10. He's going to get slaughtered on the road. Ravens. I don't see it. I'm not sure, Colin. Anyways, we got to get to the best story of the day, okay? So you and I both love this LeBron stuff.

Well, guess what? David Falk, who hardcore sports fans known with the agent from Michael Jordan, one of the most famous NBA agents of all time. He recently was on a panel, and he was asked, Hey man, obviously you have Michael Jordan won. Is LeBron your number two of all time? David Falk, Michael Jordan's agent said, hey, I really like LeBron. But I think if Jordan had cherry-picked what teams he wanted to be on and two other superstars,

he would have won 15 championships. All right. Well, so you're saying if Michael would have been mobile. So here's the problem. If Michael would have been mobile, does he get Phil Jackson? Does he get Scotty Pippet? You know, lost, there's two things about Michael Jordan. And he certainly, I think the three players that have an argument is the best ever are Michael, LeBron, and Kareem.

Put him in any order you want. Those are the three. Two things that are lost about Michael Jordan. It's as if they disappear. Number one is, after winning the title as a freshman, the next two years of college basketball, he didn't win in college. Because he didn't have James Worthy. The other thing that's lost is Go find me all his playoff series wins

without Pippin. Yep. Good luck. And again, when he lost James Worthy in college, no titles. When he lost, when he didn't have Pippin in the NBA. Nothing. No title. Yeah.

So, Colin, yeah. 100% agree with you. This whole LeBron Jordan debate, it's fun, man. The Michael Jordan Snowflake fans out there are so sensitive. Anything you say just gets destroyed. People come after you crazily. Colin, I just want to continue to point out to everybody, wherever LeBron has gone, Cleveland, L.A., Miami, he wins.

And you'll say, well, Jay, he gets great teammates. You can look it up. Lebron did it all. Leading the team in rebounds, leading the team in points, leading an assist. All Jordan did was score. He was a great defender. But Scotty Pippen is the guy who was leading the team in steals and blocks doing the real dirty work. And again, I'm not denigrating Jordan.

I think he's a clear number two to LeBron James. That's obvious. But like, this idea, Colin, come on. I would slow down that mobility necessarily is always the answer. I've talked about this in my life. I've bounced around to six, seven different cities. But the downside is my kids weren't raised in one cul-de-sac and have lifelong friends on that. That's the downside to it.

The downside to mobility is that sometimes you have to deal with multiple owners. And we know that sports by and large has as many. bad owners as good owners. So, I mean, the Lakers owners, actually, the bus family are some of the poorest owners. Dan Snyder was not, Dan Gilbert, I didn't think was one of the great owners. Mickey Erison and Miami was. So, yes, LeBron has won titles on multiple teams because of mobility. But Michael also had the advantage.

He played in a city where, you know, people like to play Chicago. Jerry Krauss, say what you want was a very good GM. Scotty Pippant, arguably the best Robin ever. Phil Jackson's the greatest coach ever. So Jerry Krause kept reinventing and re-fortifying this. Tony Cooch, the Bulls went and got Tony Cooch. At the time, he was the best European player in the league. Yeah, they had a stacked team.

Remember, when Jordan came back from baseball and they lost to the Orlando Magic, Michael Jordan was like, go get me, you know, this guy. I need guys. And, like, he got to kind of handpick his free agents. I just want to remind people, It's not like LeBron started the super teams. Remember, he took the cab to the finals when he was 22, Colin.

The Celtics, they were the ones who said, give me Ray Allen, give me Kevin Garnett, to join forces with Pierce to become a super team. LeBron created them to then go form his own super team because he didn't trust the other. If you gave me LeBron and Michael, and there was 10 seconds left in a game in one shot, I'd take Michael. He was a better, he was a better offensive play. His mid-range is better than anything I've ever seen. If you gave me a series, just one series, I'd probably take Michael.

If you gave me an entire playoff run, because LeBron elevates every teammate he's ever had, I think I'd take LeBron. If you give me a season, I would take LeBron. Just remember. If you're talking a possession, if you're talking a possession, it is Michael all day long. I mean, I don't trust LeBron at the free throw line still. LeBron's jumper. He loses confidence in that

until the last couple of years. If you're talking to possession, it ain't close. But the problem is you're saying like last couple of years, LeBron's still playing. Michael Jordan quit the NBA twice. He left. He bailed. LeBron's still at the top of his game.

Contextualize it. Nutrition's better. Training's better. The whole world's different. People ate steak and potatoes, played cards and drank wine in the 80s. That's the reality. People's life expectancy.

It was the Western. classic diet where steak was considered health food and a baked potato and a glass of wine was considered healthy eating so I'm never going to blame I'm Michael for that I think it comes down to I always said LeBron's a much more athletic version of magic

and Michael is a stronger better defender than Kobe that's their comps they're just different guys in different eras Jay Mack with the news well that's the news and thanks for stopping by The Heard Line News.

If you're telling me in the history of basketball, there's two players I would take if I have 15 seconds left. Karim on the Sky Hook and Michael on the midrange. Yeah, those two, I may take Larry Bird third. That's not LeBron's strength. LeBron's strength is over time. He elevates everybody. He is in such incredible shape and so strong. He wears you down over time.

But if you're talking, get me a bucket now, there's probably eight guys, 12 guys I put, including Kevin Durant in front of LeBron James. It's the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's Steve Kavino.

And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and, of course, the IHeart Radio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture.

Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio. Maybe the most interactive show on Planet Earth. Be sure to check out Kavino and Rich Live on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio,

app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Covino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we, how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast,

where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen, she won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too.

Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to a point game. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday, it's baseball night in America, featuring two of the biggest stars in baseball.

As show Aeotani leads the Dodgers against Juan Soto and the Mets. For the Guardians, take on the Tigers. Check local listings for the game in your area. Saturday, 7 Eastern on Fox. So the Tush Push, it's official, narrowly squeaked by, and it will remain for another year. I'm surprised. they've changed the kickoffs, the horse collar tackling, Cam Chancellor jumping over to block field goals. If there's a sense in the NFL, there's a little unnecessary danger.

Usually they ban it. Now, it should be noted that the Rules Committee and the health committees, like, they both encourage the League to ban the push. So the two biggest committees, the Rules Committee and the Health and Safety Committee, both said, no, I'd get rid of it. And the owners listened to Jason Kelsey, his spirited conviction for it. That's my opinion. He did speak. And I, you know, Jason's a very respected guy in the league. And the Kelsey's are, you know, they are the NFL right now, right?

Along with the great quarterbacks in the league. I think that probably pushed a couple of, you know, no votes to approval vote. That's my guess. Here's Chris Sims earlier on the owners not banning the play. They all took the side of like, man, it seems a little odd to take the play that the best team in football has been known for the last three years. We're going to take that away from them because we can't stop it. The play itself, if you want to even talk about the danger of it or the beauty of it, is the wedge created by the biggest offensive line we've seen in football since the Cowboys of the 90s.

for everybody else for two reasons. Jalen Hertz squats 600 pounds. I don't think any other quarterback does. I guess, but I don't think they do. And so he is so small, compact, and strong, he's just a hard guy, like Josh Allen or Justin Herbert, or bigger quarterbacks, you can go up high on them. Hertz is small, compact, and incredibly forceful

with his 600-pound squatting resume. So that's part of why it works. Secondly, it's the biggest offensive line in the league. I mean, the only other team that has an offensive line that's the equivalent or close is the Detroit Lions and golfs a tall, gangly guy that I assure you does not squat 600 pounds. So it just works for them. And Dion Dawkins from our show recently, he stands mostly with a tush push. It's very hard thing to do.

But it's so weird because we play a game of inches, right? Like, what's the best play to get an inch? The touch push. It's hard to take it out or it's hard to change it because it's so necessary in the game. Yeah, I mean, it's how many third and ones. The NFL is largely about moving the chains, move the sticks, keeps your defense off the field. You know, you own the clock. I mean, it's just get first downs.

And Philadelphia does that at an accelerated rate. They've done this play more than everybody else. So, yeah, again, the reason I didn't think it would pass, and without Jason Kelsey, I'm not sure if it does, is anything that looks a little dangerous or there's any data that shows it's dangerous. Now, there's no data that shows the tush push is getting guys hurt, but I don't think there was any data showing that Cam Chancellor jumping over line to block kicks. I don't think that was ruled as sort of unfair. Well, you know, Cam Chancellor can do it. Maybe everybody else doesn't have a Cam Chancellor. Chancellor, it looks a little risky. Where was the data?

So, you know, listen, when you get into politics, it could be the Senate, it could be Congress. If you get a spirited debate or a spirited speaker with great conviction and they're trying to sell you something, that's why a million people on the internet are selling you how to have great abs or how to get rich, is if, you know, if you, there are just people out there that you get them in front of a mic, you get them in front of people, it's performing. and they can sell their belief system. It could be Tony Robbins. It could be Jason Kelsey on the tush push.

And I think it probably swayed a handful of voters. So I'm fine with it. I'm surprised. Jay Mack, where do you weigh? Yeah, I'm pro tush push. I'm looking at the votes of how this broke down.

And it's interesting because, you know, the Eagles coach came out and was like, yeah, Shane Steichen is a head coach because of the tush push. And Shane Stuyken is not backing the tush push. I don't know if you noticed that. So I think it was 20. They were off by two votes.

My guess is this will be the last year of the Tush Push. Yeah, if I had a guess. I mean, they've been talking about the kickoff for years. They finally changed it. This is a rule of, this is a league of change. Yes. I mean, they changed the catch rule during an Eagles Patriot Super Bowl. It is a league of change.

Always been fluid. We'll see you tomorrow. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm CJ Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven

Mark keep coming to you. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And

most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most around here help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it. Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health, because most people out here really care. Find more information at loveyourmindtay.org. That's loveyourmindtay.org. Brought to you by the Hunsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.