The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Kevin O’Connell joins The Herd

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Vikings HC Kevin O’Connell joins The Herd to talk about their offseason and the NFC North More on the legendary life of Jerry West  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Rick Buecker was really good on Jerry West. We'll bring that back at the very end of the show. I went down to dinner last night with Rick Buecher, and we were talking about all things Golden State and NBA. So with a heavy heart, Rick was pretty close to Jerry West and Bill Walton, and he shared that with us about an hour ago. So we'll bring that back. Kevin O'Connell is going to be joining us here pretty soon.

So the NBA finals resumes tonight. It is in Dallas. I like Dallas big. I do think Kyrie Irving and Lively, the rookie, both bothered by the intense environment of Boston. NBA, the proximity for a rookie to be in an NBA finals, I'd sort of marveled at how well lively had played through the playoffs for a 19 or 20-year-old to be asked big assignments in the playoffs out of Duke.

One year at Duke, I think. I think he's been terrific. your role players and your young players, generally in the playoffs and the finals, are better at home. Your stars, you know, you usually get a pretty reasonable performance. You know, same thing every game.

Again, will Porzingis play? And I mentioned this earlier. I think Porzingis, I think when Porzingis signed, because he was viewed as sort of unsuccessful and not working in debt, Dallas. When Porzingis signed with Boston, people didn't watch him in Washington and had no idea how well he played. He was sensational, and he has been when he's on the floor, absolutely every data metric would show this. He makes Boston a much better team. Cross your fingers if you're a Celtic fan. Will he play tonight?

J. Mack with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. All right, let's stick with the NBA finals. Kyrie Irving has been absolutely terrible, averaging 14 points per game on 35% shooting. It seemed to me like the Boston crowd got to him in game two. Did you see a couple gestures to the crowd? Yep.

It just wasn't a good. Look at him. I'm trying to take Jason Tatum here, just turn over. Kyrie's not been good. Here he is talking about having to play better. Well, started with me. Just telling my Hermanos, I got to play better for him alongside him. and, you know, in order for us to, you know,

accomplish our goal, we both have to be playing well, and we both have to be doing the little things and doing whatever it takes to win. So easy conversation, but it started with me reaching out, just letting him know that, you know, it's my fault, taking accountability for not playing particularly well. So we know what we're in for, but now we've got to raise it to an even higher level,

and it starts with me. Yeah, I think there are certain environments. Like, we know at college, college players unravel very quickly on the road, basketball, football, they're younger. Generally in the NBA, you don't think pro athletes are bothered by it. But Kyrie was a Celtic, you know, felt like a little bit of a kind of a tense relationship. And so Boston fans have let him have it, and I think it's affecting it. I just wonder, Colin, watching him play, I know LeBron said he's the most gifted player ever.

He looks limited out there in what he can do against length. Well, like he's settling for mid-range garbage. He's not getting to the rim. He attempted two free throws and two games, and he hasn't made a three-pointer. Well, Luca has had lower numbers of assists, so it does feel like, this is what I said after the game two game. It does feel like Luca's doing his thing and Kyrie's doing his thing. Kind of like Dame and Janus, when you put him together this year initially, you're like, there's no symmetry. Brown, Tatum, Derek White, when you start playing with guys and it feels different, Boston feels like they're a cohesive

collaborative unit tied together with a string. In Boston, it was like, Luca, your turn, Kyrie your turn. I didn't feel any symmetry with that combo at all. I do wonder, you know, a lot of people have made this small guard can't win thing. Steph Curry against these Celtics, I know they didn't have holiday, but they had Marcus Smart who was awesome. Curry lit these guys up because of the three-pointer. He moves great off the ball.

Watch Kyrie Irving off the ball tonight. Tell me what he's doing. Not a lot of movement. Standing around. He's not even close to the player Curry is. He's not. No, he's not. And they're also flawed players.

Luca is poor defensively. Yeah, he's having a row. And Kyrie is more of an ISO player. You know, so Steph Curry may not be great defensively, but offensively he's flawless. Floaters, at the rim, movement. Steph Curry is a flawless offensive player. Both Luca and Kyrie do have holes in their game.

The only Boston hole in this series, to me, has been, who closes it? Is it Tatum or Brown? They haven't had to worry about that. So that's right. That's noteworthy. With Porzingas, they've had leads. You take Porzingis out, these are going to be much closer games in Dallas. Then who's closing for Boston could be the problem we've been concerned about.

It just hadn't been an issue in the first two. What about Porzengis, 75 percent? Is that still a problem for them? Yes. I say, you give me Porzingas for 18 minutes, 9.5. That's rim protection. Okay. That takes the lobs out. Watch Dallas's lob game come back in tonight and in game four if Porzingis doesn't play. Yeah. All right. Next up is the commanders. They drafted Jaden Daniels with the second overall pick. They hope he's the franchise QB. They've covered it for a while. Terry McClurentz.

Scary Terry will surely be happy to have a proper quarterback under center to get him the ball. here's what he had to say about the rookie at camp so far. He came in really prepared. I felt like when he was getting one's reps or where he's working with the twos, he does a great job of getting the most out of the reps that he needs to accomplish. He's humble, but he's confident in his ability. He's played at the highest level. He's played against really great competition,

and he knows that he can make all the throws. So he's not putting the cart before the horse. He's literally taking this thing day by day. and he's doing a really good job right now. Have you noticed everybody says the same thing about him, how mature Jaden Daniels is? That is so important. We always joke about the hat on backwards thing,

but all the comments about Jaden Daniels, college, Brian Kelly Pro, they're all the same thing. This guy is really mature. I'm telling you, watch out for this kid. Everything I hear, I have a good source, around that organization, they love him. They don't like him, they love him. He's going to have a chance early at Tampa,

which is not an amazing defense. Vers the Giants, you know, defensive line is good to rest. Bengals, and then Cardinals. There's a schedule. So there's a world where they start two and two, three and one, and he all of a sudden is like right there with Caleb. That's a very workable schedule. It does get a little more difficult with Browns and Ravens after that.

I have them in the playoffs. I think they'll make it. That's crazy talk. Final story is... Oh yeah, here we go. You're going to love this one. So Christian McCaffrey got the big contract extension recently,

and he was named the Madden 2025 cover athlete yesterday. In an appearance on NFL network, McCaffrey was asked about landing the cover and whether he's worried about the Madden curse. No, I'm not superstitious at all about it. I was so excited, man. I mean, this was such an honor to be able to...

You know, when I first... got the call, I was in shock, is something that I just never thought what happened to me. I never thought that somebody would call and tell me I'm on the cover of Matt. But I got the call, I wasn't figuring out any curse. I was just excited. And no, I mean, I think that stuff is kind of myth and, you know, whatever happens happens. But I'm excited to be on the cover. Yeah, it is a myth.

We have enough conspiracy theories in the world. Let's just not pretend. The only problem is, if you look at some of the cover guys, they've had to be a lot. they've had the worst seasons of their career. Josh Allen last year, Colin. Yeah, it's still a pretty good season. I'll take Josh Allen. I'll take his worst year ever.

I mean, do you need me to go through all? I don't want to go through all of them, but like Antonio Brown. Like, there's been a lot of guys who went sideways. You're not worried. You're not worried. You're not worried. Jay McQuil News. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Well, he's entering his third season as head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, and in his time, this division, has gotten really, really good. Kevin O'Connell is joining us. This is supposed to be the offseason for guys like you, but you've been very busy assigned Justin Jefferson.

And, you know, I got a million things to ask you. I want to go back to Sam Darnold. So I always predict how the quarterbacks are going to do. I love Darnold out of college. I loved him. People remind me all the time that he's not as good as I said. But Kyle liked him and you like him. So I trust smart guys.

What do you see with Sam that hasn't, necessarily always worked in terms of winning in the NFL. What do you see as a guy who played the position and coaches it? Yeah, I think, Colin, you weren't, you know, as far as talent goes, as far as ability. Sam Darnold coming out had everything that you look for. And, you know, a quarterback, you're willing to invest a first-round pick in. And look, we all have different quarterback journeys. And I joke about this.

I use that term very loosely for myself. But we all have different paths. We go, different situations, you know, what type of mentality you have in that moment to execute the offense that you're in. What is that offense asking you to do to attempt to try to go win football games? And I think that, you know, when we're getting Sam is as important as getting Sam himself. I think he's in a great place in his career. I think he really did some things, even last year in a limited amount of time, but he really benefited from, from Kyle and Brian Greasy and playing, you know, in a quarterback room with Brock Purdy and watching,

you know, a guy execute an offense at a really high level and then getting a chance limited, but getting a chance to, you know, execute that offense himself. I think he's matured a ton. He understands, you know, exactly who he is as a quarterback. And when we went to try to get Sam to come to Minnesota, him and I had some great dialogue about my feelings. towards Sam and his excitement about joining our team, a lot of which has to do with playing with some of the teammates he's going to get to play with. And Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, T.J. Hawkinson, Aaron Jones and Ty Chandler. We've got a continuity along the offensive line.

And oh, by the way, we're challenged by, you know, a really, really good defense and practice every day that's only gotten better with some of the additions that we've made. So I'm looking for Sam to continue what he's done this spring, which is he's had a great spring. But ultimately, it's going to be about training camp and preparing to be the quarterback of our team. And can he stack some days together and build confidence not only in himself, but through his teammates watching him go to work every day and tirelessly prepared to be at his best. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app.

Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast.

or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting.

On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it, I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this.

At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart. I'm Tab Ramos. I'm Tom Boe.

On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers,

he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you

a paramedipausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with the Adamalia Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own. I was like, what the hell is that?

I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How hard can it be getting naked at 50 with the new guy? That one's kind of hard. Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try.

So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of My Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You have had the most interesting career in terms of teammates at quarterback and players under you. You've had everybody from the goat to Stafford to trash talking Philip Rivers to the nicest guy in the world, Kirk Cousins, to young Jared Gough, to cocky Johnny Mansell. You've had everything.

I mean, you had all these personalities. If I said to you, what is the one thing that you're going to miss about? about Kirk Cousins? The one thing. You've had this breadth of quarterback personalities. What do you miss about Kirk? Yeah, really, I mean, Colin, Kirk and I go back to my time in Washington in 2017, building a relationship as his position coach, watching him do a lot of, do a lot of really good things. And then, you know, unfortunately, we, you know, we didn't have him the following year. He found his way to Minnesota where, who would have known three, four years behind that, I would get a chance to come here and be his head coach. And really, this,

the relationship formed, the amount of, you know, just belief we had in each other and both chasing, you know, like-minded goals of the Minnesota Vikings being the best team we could help make it be. You know, I really enjoyed my time with Kirk. I think the world of them as a person and a player, a leader, you know, those are things that, you know, I look and will continue to look back on really fondly, you know, of our time together. But in a lot of ways, Kirk's helped me become the coach I am today. And I'm excited to coach the quarterbacks we have on our team, whether it's Sam Darnold, JJ McCarthy.

Nick Mullins is a guy that's been here essentially since I became the head coach of the Vikings for, you know, that, you know, coming right before that first season started. And then Jaron Hall's, you know, continuing to develop and growing every single day as another young player in this league. So I'm excited about that quarterback. room. I'm learning things every single day about the different aspects of my job, starting first and foremost as being the head coach, but also I still like being around the quarterback position. I still like having that role as the play caller, where I build those

relationships with the quarterback so that the amount of connection and the trust that's built, we can go feel like we're having a chance to really be at our best when it's time to go compete for 17 ops this fall. So, Jay and Jay McCarthy, when I watched him, my takeaway was the tough part for him would be he always had a lead at Michigan. He always had a run game in Michigan. That's not the NFL. I mean, there are times you can have a good run game, and you figure out after two

series, we can't run on these guys. The NFL's a whole different ball game. You almost, even Brady's playing behind all the time. Mahomes is playing behind in Super Bowls. So that transition, he's tall enough, he can move, he can make the throws, he's smart enough. The Alabama quarterback sometimes come into this league and it's like, oh, they know I'm throwing. How do you create stress for J.J. McCarthy, which is what NFL quarterbacks face. Real game stress, because at Michigan, with that group of dominating line play and that coach,

it didn't feel like an NFL experience to me, or am I wrong? Well, Colin, I think we can absolutely create it by the environment that we put him in. And that's how we structure practices. He's going to be playing against a Brian Flores defense every single day with a variety of different looks. They're going to confuse him. They're going to put some stress and some pressure on him at times. He's going to get the opportunity to respond to snap in and snap out adversity. there's going to be some days in camp where maybe, you know, he walks off the field frustrated,

and it's about what he does in those moments. Can we continue to have growth? Can we come out the next day and not make some of the same mistakes twice? And then I think the other part of it is, Colin, you know, in my evaluation of JJ, it took me down a road where I really wanted to sink up a lot of the quarterbacks in the draft based upon, you know, what Flo and I call the weighty downs and those important days. downs that are third down, third downs in the red area, some of the two-minute drives where you've got to find a way to move the team with maybe necessarily not having the clock as your ally.

And you've got to be able to adapt and play regardless of how the game is gone, you've got to make some of those plays. And I think that's what defines successful quarterbacks in this league. It's not the games where you're hitting a bunch of layups and moving the football at will. It's the games where it's been tough. Yeah. We've got to make this play on this third and seven. right now to have a chance to capture momentum in this football game.

And there was evidence when you studied J.J. McCarthy. It's one of those things where the run game at Michigan obviously was a real benefit to him, you know, marrying that with a play action game that allowed him to, you know, show his traits to throw on the football down the field. But you can't really build a team and a philosophy around, you know, some of those traits and principles without having a really good third down operation. And some of the throws that he was asked to make, reading coverage, tight window throws.

And I'm talking third and seven, eight, nine plus, Colin, where the quarterback is the main driver behind the ability, you know, for that unit to have success on that play. And then ultimately, once you get that third and nine, you can go back to running the ball and imposing your will on the opponent, but there's still going to be those weighty downs, even in games you're leading, even in games you're trying to hunt down the lead, close games and the playoffs that he was able to experience.

I would just say that there was enough there to show that he's more than capable of continuing that growth and development at our level. And then you've got to look inward. You've got to look at what you're going to be putting that player into from an offense standpoint, from a scheme standpoint. What type of playmakers does that player have around him to where it's a simple, do your job premise and can you go execute with great detail what we're asking you to do snap in and snap out distribute the football to your teammates and kind of let the offense work hand in hand

with you and then ultimately there's going to be some downs where we need the quarterback to make a play that is the facts of life in the NFL and and I feel very strongly that JJ is going to be capable of making those plays and those moments to not only experience success but continue on a trajectory that we're pretty excited about where he can get to. By the way, I'm guessing I saw your son behind you. Is it bring your kid to work day today because I saw him right behind you? Yeah, you know what? We did.

We brought, you know, we last day of OTAs today figured get these guys out and put them to work. We had a bunch of our coaches, kids out there helping out with the footballs and spotting the ball and just kind of getting to be around it. I figured, hey, in other professions, people get to bring their kids to work. why not in the NFL, especially this time of year, where we're in the, you know, finishing up the offseason, great time, kids are out of school. And I'm always looking for any extra moments I could have, you know,

with my kids and making up for a lot of time that we commit to these jobs that we have. Yep. Congrats on Justin Jefferson, Coach. Appreciate you giving us the time. Good camp. Nice talking. We'll have you on again. I appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely, Colin. Appreciate you. All right, Kevin O'Connell. Yeah. Bring your kids to work. I brought my kids a couple times to work. The studio. They kind of like that thing. They got no interest in doing this, but they kind of like the studio. You never brought your kids to work. You want me to one day? I don't care. It doesn't matter. I got some hot takes.

I got one troublemaker and then one rule follower. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Everybody has that. One kid falls in line, the other just argues with me. So what do you mean? Trouble maker. What does that mean? Take a guess. Well, there's a lot of different troubles. It's seven. It's different than 17. I know where you live. It's 17. It's real trouble.

It's seven. They had an extra cookie. I got two great kids. I look forward to bringing them here one day. All right. There you go. All right. Rick Fuecker, real touching stuff on Jerry West. He was on earlier today. I want to bring some of that back coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern.

But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show. We never get to everything. Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for. Yeah, you blubberlips. Blame and me. Well, you know what? It's called Over-Promise. You should be good at it because you've been over-promising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show, and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course. But we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I

arguing about something or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Overpromised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino & Rich, make sure you check out Overpromised, and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Overpromising. Perfect. And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us.

Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castor. 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend, and business manager. And we've got a new show called the 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise. the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about.

As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it, I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. I'm Tom Ramos. I'm Tab Ramos.

I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers,

he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Deanna Maria Riva, actress, mother, lover, and a Gen X woman walking through life one hot flash and hormonal crying jag at a time. You ladies know what I mean. I'll bet you a perimenopausal chin here you do. So let's talk about it. Join me on my new podcast. How hard can it be with De Anamanea Riva, where I call on my Gen X squads from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. All of a sudden, I'd had hanginess happening on my own.

I was like, what the hell is that? I was married when I had her, so I didn't even consider how empty that nest was going to be. Mood swings, night sweats, fupas, sex drive. Wait, what sex? Dating at 45. How high can it be? I'm getting naked at 50 with the new guy. That one's kind of hard.

Well, that's lighting. They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears or tears of laughter, and dive into it, unfiltered and unbothered and ask, how hard can it be? I cannot believe I'm about to say this out loud in public. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva as part of my Cultur Podcast Network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When it comes to those that you want to protect. the most go to simply safe colin.com 20% off any new system no safe like simply safe sensors, windows doors. We had Rick Buecker on earlier today who was very close to Jerry West who built the Lakers

dynasty and then another Laker dynasty and then helped in the Warriors dynasty. The first great guard, Mr. Clutch became the logo a multiple time executive of the year and he always felt like the all time great basketball consultant. If you had an issue,

you called Jerry West up until very recently. And earlier today, Rick stopped by, and we discussed how important Jerry was to the game of basketball. This is why I'm always amazed when people don't put him in the top three or four all-time Lakers. And it's a combination of what he was as a player and what he was as an executive. And I mean, this news is kind of hard for me because Jerry was, as you said, a singular guy and you I would joke about it like I would get on the phone with him and I'd ask him one question and I'd have a lot of questions for him I'd ask him one question and 45 minutes later

I'm waiting to ask my second question his breadth of knowledge is I mean he he just and it was one of the things that made him so special as an executive because he could talk to great players as a great player. He never lost, he never lost that feel for what it meant to be a great player, even when he became an executive. And his going and getting, and at the same time, he figured out ways to make the front office numbers details work. I mean, his getting shack from Orlando to, to the Lakers, was no small feet at that time. That took a lot of heavy lifting. But the other part was that for all that he did,

there was a humility about him. I always felt that. He never lost. I've said this about Tom Brady. Considering how good he looks and how good he's been, there was always sort of a, like Bill runs the show. I'm just a quarterback. There is a humility to Jerry.

Now, Jerry could be very relentless. If you looked at his childhood, all of our childhoods shape our personalities as adults. Sure. But there was, I mean, when he made that Shaq deal, I can remember reading a story where he said he got sick. Yeah. It was such a big deal. And Shaq was regarded as literally an immovable unicorn. There was no Shaq.

He made the deal. He felt for the bus family, for the city of Los Angeles, he was so nervous that, I guess, He got sick physically. I mean, he couldn't watch games. He would get into his car and drive on the freeways and listen to games. Because he couldn't stand just sitting there in the stands watching games. And look, I mean, some of our greatest assets are also our biggest defects, right? Sure, sure.

And what drove him and what kind of fueled that humility was this feeling like, if I don't work as hard as I possibly can, I'm not going to make it. I'm going to lose. I'm going to be, I'm going to not be good enough. And it was almost like a paranoia and an obsession to work as hard as he did. And so that fueled him, but at the time it made him a little crazy too. I mean, he was known as both the logo and El Loco. He had both nicknames.

and lived up to both of them. But man, just a tortured human being in some ways, but just a genuine, I got to tell you, just between losing Bill and now losing Jerry, like those are two guys that were, they brought such a humanity to the league. If you were in the league and you got a chance to know them, that's what made the NBA so special

is the fabric of it and the people. that you got to know and who they were well the NFL's always been very corporate basketball has been the artist league it's why I I always feel that basketball NBA basketball is similar to international soccer that messy may be flawed and Ronaldo's not perfect but this is an open canvas the ball is yours yeah make art yeah football is diagramed a lot of practices marching band stay on task that's right it's marching band Basketball is where our great sports artists live.

Same with international soccer. And so because of that, aesthetics matter. And personality does too. Yeah. Like the personality of somebody is visible and informs how they play. So a flawed player that, I mean, for a long time, Kareem was the best player on the planet. But he was never really embraced because it was a bit prickly. Dr. J.

there was more flavor, there was more color, or magic. Magic Johnson, right? So it's like in basketball, these are artists that can, you're going to spill some paint. Yeah. Like, right? Like the greatest players shoot 48%.

There's a lot of paint to be spilled. And so when I look at Jerry and I look at his, the logo, El Loco, that's part of basketball, his tough childhood. There's also something to be said about small state or small town people who go to big cities have sort of that intuitive fear, like, oh, I'm a little kid small town, and it drives them for... Jerry always felt a little West Virginia. A thousand percent. Without question.

As long as you could put the suit... I mean, just take a look at that. Like, you can put a suit and tie on him. Small town kid. But he's still got that West Virginia look to him. What's interesting about Jerry is a lot of times as people age in any industry, The young don't really listen. The young, they're disconnected.

It's the old guy. It is fascinating to see the reverence. Michael, Kobe, Durant, LeBron, there's a reverence to an mid-80-year-old guy, and I don't know what that is. A big part of it was the fact that as we get older, sometimes we fall into, I know it all, and this is the way I've done it, and this has been my formula for success. And Jerry was never that way. Yes, when I would ask a question and 45 minutes later,

but he wanted to know what I knew. And that's often where the conversation started. He was, as to the very end, was looking to pick other people's brains about what's going on and how things have evolved. He was an amazing listener and he was all he he never approached it like when he would approach great players He would it wasn't like let me tell you how this works He would ask them what's going on and When you have somebody who's accomplished what Jerry has has accomplished and they want to know first where you're coming from Now guys feel like you're invested in them as opposed to You're just trying to show them

the ropes. No, you understand that this individual's ropes might be different than what I've experienced. Let me see how my knowledge applies to their situation. It's nuanced, but that was Jerry to the very end. Condolence is to his family and those around him, Jerry West passing away overnight, surrounded by family at the age of 86. So Kevin O'Connell dropped by today. Rick Buecker has some thoughts on Jerry West. And

tomorrow we will have Dan Hurley on our show and tonight game three Dallas back home Luca a bit hobbled my guess Kyrie plays well lively the rookie plays well role players tend to at home play better Dallas

has the energy early no porzingis or limited poor zingas Boston loses I would say 118 110 good game fun game to watch a lot of intensity. Dallas is, it's a big, loud arena. You're going way over the total. Huh. Interesting. Well, what is the total? Total is around 2.15.

Oh, no, you have 218. I can't do math this morning. Oh, no, you had 228, 118, 110. Interesting that you have it as Dallas winning. I think there's a real concern here, Colin. Celtics. They win this game, it's over. And these NBA finals have been a massive dud. Well, there's been many of them because of the Celtics. There's been how many sweeps and gentleman sweeps. The West had some really good series. Minnesota, Minnesota, Denver were great series. Nick's Pacers and Nick's um, but the Knicks Pacers was really good. Those ones, sixes. I know, but Knicks fell apart physically. So you didn't get all

their good players. I wouldn't call it an all-time great series. So what were the other good series? Well, I think OKC Dallas was great. Yes. I think Minnesota, Denver, game seven was fantastic. Okay. I thought most of the West was compelling. I thought the East was a play up for the Celtics. I think if the Knicks would have stayed healthy, they could have pushed Boston, made them uncomfortable, but they didn't. So you ended up not having Mitchell Robinson, Randall, I mean, everybody got her. OG got hurt. So at the end, it was just a very muted, mediocre team. Was the East mediocre because the Celtics were that good, or because everyone else is that bad and injured? Well, I mean, the Celtics did go 23 and 7 against the West.

So the Celtics are very good, but the East, two things can be true. The East stinks and Boston's really good. How long before people are like, well, this title's okay, but they didn't beat Denver. You know, because everybody thought Denver would be here. Well, I think if they sweep Dallas and Lucas, not 100% it's not going to feel as big. Oh, come on. You had

Dallas. What do you talk about? I mean, I was rooting Dallas. Let's give Tatum his due. You're not going to try to bury Tatum if he wins this series. Almost their fourth leading score. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on

humor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, You already know, there's a lot to break down. Norsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man.

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