The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 3 - Lakers, Murray

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

Stories are leaking about the relationship between LeBron James and Russell Westbrook More on Kyler Murray's new contract with the Cardinals Guests: Dan Woike, Lavonte DavidSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. Hour number three, live in Los Angeles. It's the hurt. Wherever you may be. However you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1.

So Jason McIntyre joining me. The story today, it broke in hour one. Kyler Murray has agreed to a five-year deal, a lot of money. You don't care about that. It's reasonably team-friendly, but also friendly for Kyler Murray. I said it earlier this week that Derek Jeter is not overrated or underrated. He's appropriately rated.

Nobody thinks Tom Hanks is the greatest actor. We all acknowledge he's a movie star and a little odd with Scientology. Nobody said he's the best actor. He's appropriately rated. Everybody on the internet, overrated, underrated. There's no perfect actor. You know, there is no perfect quarterback.

I'll give you an example. So I would have paid Kyler Murray. So I'll go through all the quarterbacks. Patrick Mahomes is perfect. No, he's not. We have seen three different five or six game stretches where his mechanics go into the tank. Thank God he's got Andy Reid there. Last year, he had a five, six game stretch.

And we knew this coming out of college. The scouting report on Mahomes out of college, he was wild, he could mechanically get really loose. We've seen it now. Multiple five game stretches where it gets ugly, he unravels, and he brings him back. So he's not perfect. Aaron Rogers. Aaron's prickly. Aaron's moody.

You know, Aaron's talking nonstop about retirement. Aaron has a very low number of come from behind wins. His last 16 playoff games, he's under 500. He has trust issues. You know, like last year, we saw it. He just wouldn't let it rip. He trusted Devonte, maybe Mercedes-Louis, and that's it. That's not a perfect quarterback.

Tom Brady. Old, doesn't have mobility. I think Matt Stafford's really good, but he can be reckless. So when you say, well, Kyler Murray gets hurt and he's small, there's an argument to be made that in terms of perfect quarterbacks, Justin Herbert, a 4.2 biology major, big, can move, huge arm, coachable, it's about it. Like Herbert is, like Josh Allen's close, but he can be reckless.

Herbert is the argument like, and they say Herbert, can be too mechanical. But Justin did not have a lot of holes in his game. He was a tutor in college. He was a 4-2 biology major. Big, move, strong, arm, lets it rip. It doesn't erode when he throws a pick. I mean, he has the best numbers ever in two years.

Like Joe Burrell throws a lot of picks. Aaron Rogers, won't let it rip. Derek Carr, average arm. There's a lot of, you can pick all these guys apart. You know, Russell Wilson, Sometimes we've heard Greg CoSell say this. He disrupts a play himself. He ad-libs when he doesn't have to.

He's a little short. O'Lyman or 6-6. He's 5.11 and a half. He sometimes moves out of the pocket when he should just sit and throw. Again, Herbert and Josh Allen, big, strong, mobile, you know, coachable, that's about as good as it gets. But I look at Kyler Murray and I'm like, we can pick all these guys apart. We can pick all of them apart. Michael Jordan never shot long distance.

could be brutal as a teammate, was never a great passer, best basketball player ever. LeBron, don't trust him late at the free throw line. Second best player ever. I mean, it's, you know, Magic Johnson couldn't really shoot, not a great defender. So if you're looking for the perfect athlete, the perfect politician, the perfect host, it doesn't exist. He is not, there's no duplicate on the market in college for him. He's as good as anybody. I did my top 10 quarterback list earlier this week or last week.

He's one of the 10 best. I'm paying all these guys, and they've all got flaws. Herbert, I haven't seen a big overarching flaw yet. But it's Mahomes, Alan, Brady, Rogers, Russell, Stafford, Burrow, Herbert, Kyler, Derek. I got Dak 11, Lamar, 12. A lot of people disagree. You'd have them in there. You wouldn't have Derek Carr in, but he leaves the league in fourth quarter comeback since he arrived.

That's a big thing to me. Can you play from behind late? That's why I docked Lamar and I elevate car. I trust Derek with three minutes to go trailing. He's a great come from behind quarterback. They all got issues. So Chris Sims earlier, I talked to, you know, he likes the signing and here's his thoughts. Hey, you got something special.

You know, you don't just throw that out the door or, you know, let that go down the river there to find something new. You don't. You know that he got injured and that kind of, you know, disrupted things. Didn't play great at the end of the year. are some things that we'd like to see him improve or be better on? Sure. But man, he's got some elite traits about him that are special. We don't even care about the Arizona Cardinals before he got there. Now they're in the playoff conversation. And I think what also gave him a little more

power in this conversation. And rightly so is, hey, you know, they formulated the team around him. They're playing a system and getting personnel that fits Kyler Murray. Another thing to think about, and it's important here, is that the division has Sean McVay in it and the division has Kyle Shanahan in it. I believe those are the two best young coaches in the NFL, both are offensive coaches, and that's where the league is headed. I don't know if Cliff Kingsbury is a great coach. So I got to have a playmaker at quarterback because there's no reason Shanahan's got a long deal and McVey just signed the next. extension. Okay. So I know in my division, my shot to beat them probably not schematically. I'm not going to beat Shanahan twice a year schematically. And in terms of building a culture,

McVe may be the best young coach in America at that. So I'm not necessarily going to beat him on culture, on schematics. How can I beat him? Kyler Marie's feet and arm. That's how I can beat him. Where are you located? You know, know, sometimes, you know, the reality is when Peyton Manning was in the NFL, all the teams in the division, Bill Polion told me this years ago, he goes, I knew when I had Peyton Manning, I would lead most of my games late. So I drafted pass rushers because I knew teams would trail late and be throwing. So we wanted to make sure we had an edge rusher.

When Brady was in the AFC East, right? Buffalo would overpay for a pass rusher. The Jets would draft defensive linemen. Miami was always looking for pass rushers to slow down. Tom Brady. If you're in a division with Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVey, regardless of the quarterbacks, you're going to have to win some shootouts. You're not holding those guys to 17 points.

You're going to have to win shootouts. Kyler Murray, I like my chances in shootouts. He can do a lot of things off script. And I don't even know, I may have the fourth best quarterback in the division. He's not McVeigh and he's not Shanahan. Most would argue he hadn't proven he's beat Carroll. So you start looking around that division. those are your six games that make or break your season.

I mean, the reason the Packers keep winning their division and struggling in the playoffs is we keep getting fooled how good they are because they keep dominating an average dysfunctional division. Arizona is the opposite. That thing is brutal. It's SEC football. It's brutal. You're facing the best coaches, the best roster, is the smartest guys.

Gotta have a dude. You got to have a dude. You know, in the NFC East, the Cowboys. are dysfunctional, the giants are a mess, Washington's dysfunctional. I'll give Jalen Hertz a couple more years. Why not? I can experiment. I mean, they were rebuilding with Jalen Hertz and they won the division.

So I think it's the right move. And with that, Dan Wojke, who is always such a great guest, L.A. Times. So let's pivot to this. So I just talked about this end of last hour. Stuff leaks when somebody wants it out. And that doesn't mean reporters aren't great, but somebody wanted Watergate out, that's why it got out. Okay, so I got multiple ripping Westbrook stories, stuff from a film room. Sure. I've got Dave McMinneman is LeBron is over it. Some of this stuff comes because

somebody wants it out. My assertion or hunch, I don't really know this, is that the Lakers have sort of decided, like LeBron's been like, we're done. Let's, we're just going to either buy them out, eat it. We don't, Darvin Ham asked him to play defense. He didn't want to do that. And the Lakers are sort of setting the stage just moving on and he won't be in, he will not be in camp. So I don't think they're going to buy him out. But I don't know. And I think that's the thing with this story that's been so hard to follow, right, is that it's constantly evolving. Right.

Like the Lakers were for sure going to get Kyrie Irving, right? And then that changed. And then it was for sure not going to happen. And then that changed. And so this stuff is like. Like, it's all like an incredibly fluid situation. I think, Colin, we can point to the things that we know are true. And I think this actually a little bit ties into the Kyler-Murray thing you were just talking about, right?

Like, what's the best superstar in the league? It's the one that's on your team, right? Because they're hard to find. Right. And I think, you know, Russell Westbrook is not the star, certainly that he was. But when you have a team with LeBron James and Anthony Davis, especially guys that are getting older, guys that you can't really count on maybe as much as you were, you could, you know, two, three years ago. it's hard to let

$47 million of your sort of your plan just go away. I think that they would still try to see if something would unlock, right? That being said, it's been incredibly sloppy. It's been very

messy. It's always public. Everything leaks. Well, and since the end, I mean, even like this, this, a lot of this stuff isn't even like necessarily like leaks, right? Like, I asked Russell Westbrook at the exit interviews, like, you know, like throughout the year, you know, LeBron and Anthony Davis went on their way to say, we need to let Russ be Russ. And Russ, like, before I can even finish the question, is like,

well, that's not true. Well, that didn't happen. You know, and like, this is all of us are in the room. We're like, okay. Like, we're off to the races now. And I think what we're seeing is, is a combination you have egos at play. You have people who are used to winning, who didn't, who lost pretty spectacularly. And then you've got guys that are trying to come to grips and Russell Westbrook, specifically, as to like, what is his new place in the NBA? Because it's not

MVP, certainly anymore. And that wasn't that long ago. Maybe it's not even All-Star. But trying to figure out what he is, it's a lot of growing paints are happening and it's with the biggest brightest spotlight because these are the final

years seemingly of LeBron James's incredibly long prime. This is the winning window. It seems like all of this stuff is just like, what a disaster, right? This is not the way you maximize your LeBron time. So I think Kevin Durant thought, I'm going to go public, I want out,

and there'd be a big, robust market. Sure. And there's not. And the NBA is going through an interesting time. Totally agree. The Warriors, Celtics. bucks, Phoenix are about culture and about drafting and developing, adding pieces. And now six, seven years ago, get the star.

But it's a cyclical league. And I think teams are looking around owners are saying, I don't want these expensive. Harden was a, it didn't work. Simmons didn't work. Kyrie and KD are not guaranteeing anything. And I'm not saying it's a cyclical world, right? Like Netflix is hot. Sell their stock.

Now it's a buy. Listen, I think you're looking around. the league in culture drafting and developing is winning and people like it and the big star it may only be for a few years but there's not much of a market for it but it really was never not winning though too right i mean like the warriors are the best draft and develop culture yeah you know and i mean they're the patriots right and and and the NBA at least over the last decade plus so yeah so i mean i think like that part of it isn't new um i do think though sort of the ownership around the league is calculating a little differently,

like who are the guys are like a full chip pushing for, right? And the Durant thing is interesting just because I don't think you talk to anybody, GM ownership, whatever, the people, my sources. I mean, like, everybody agrees. Like, Kevin Durant is one of the best players in the NBA. He can win you a playoff series. Like, he is one of those dudes. It almost doesn't even matter who he's around.

Like he is good enough to score 50 points three times in a playoff series and lead you on. But I think, you know, if you're talking about four first round picks, if you're talking about three players, you know, pulling apart your depth, the question sort of becomes, okay, well, he's, you know, he's at the tailor end of his prime, he's a little bit older. He doesn't. He has injury concerns. I've said this too. Owners, players, fans want to be able to put their arms around you. He doesn't allow it. And I just think durability right now is a thing, too.

It's like just when it is one of the people talk about it. But as you talk about these stars around the league and stuff like that, like, you know, guys that you can kind of count on to be out there 75 times in a season and be there for you in the playoffs. Like there's a tremendous value in that. And, you know, with Kevin Durant, like you'd be a little nervous. And I think you'd be rightfully so. You know, he's an older player and he's had injury history.

I do think, though, I think that the weird trade market for him isn't representative, though, of how good he is. Right. Because he's obviously spectacular. But it's just, I think, to your point, the league is in a weird position where the buyers are, A, I think teams look around the league and they don't see a great team. And so a lot of people think they have a chance. You know, the Clippers think they have a chance. Denver thinks they have a chance. Yeah.

Boston thinks they have a chance. Milwaukee. Miami. Phoenix. I think the Lakers, if they knew they had Anthony Davis and LeBron James healthy for four rounds of the playoffs, they'd feel like they would have a chance. I think they're a different tier. But there are a lot of teams that believe that they're there. So why are you, unless you're a team, say like Minnesota, you know, why are you cashing everything in? You know, it's a really interesting time in the league, especially as we see a young group of players

guys like John Morant, Luca Dachich, and stuff like that kind of threaten the status quo and are going to kind of change the game and that could be the next cycle. So Joe Lacob knew he would be fine when he went out and said, you know, listen, this is way too punitive. And I actually agree

with Joe in this instance. The four things that matter in this league are players and fans and the league as a whole and the teams, viable teams. The Warriors draft and develop and then they can add an occasional piece. I don't think you should be as punitively punished for drafting, developing, and resigning players. I think it's a gift for players.

They don't have to find another school for their kids. They don't have to bounce around. I think Steph Curry lives the perfect NBA life. Loved. He can be a charitable Bay Area person. Sure. His kids go to the school. He is totally all in on helping the community because he's part of the community.

Well, all those guys, I think, with Golden State, right, are intertwined, interwoven into that fabric. I think Wiggins, KD, Bogot, Iggy, if you want to go get and take chances, whether it's poach or trade, that should be not a heavy penalty, but what Joe Lakey is saying is, we're doing it the right way, and you're crushing us for it.

Well, I think, too, right? So the point of the luxury tax is to spread talent around, right? Is to have as much talent around in the league as possible to make it hard for teams to stack talent. I kind of agree with you on this, Colin. And like, I don't think you should be penalized necessarily for being good at the draft. You know, it's good for, I think it's good for the league that Steph Curry is going to play,

potentially his whole career in Golden State. I think it's good for the league that Clay Thompson can go on Instagram live and be on a boat and be, you know, sailing to work. Like, all of these players have been able, not only you talk about like their kids and stuff like that, but they've all been able to be themselves. And like, and that to me is the NBA's, that's the Trump card they have over every other league, is that player personalities are so apparent. There's nothing between you and their emotions. You get that all the time.

And I think when you're Draymond Green, when you're Steph Curry, when you're Clay Thompson, and you're working at the same place for a long time, this is true with any job. You're able to be yourself. And I think that's ultimately the thing. Now, you know, look, should Joe LeCup say these things on a podcast when he's negotiating these things?

Probably not. and that's where, you know, that's where that fine comes in. But I think in premise, I agree with you, I think that maybe if there were a system in which, you know, players you draft don't count against your luxury tax bill, or count less. Maybe they're not subject to the repeater tax or something like that. To me, that seems like something worth examining

because I do think that, here's the other thing, too, when you talk about spreading out talent, if you can't afford these guys, it's not like Clay Thompson is going to say, I demand you trade me to a team in a bad market with no talent so that everything can be equal. He's going to want to go to a big market with a chance to win, and guess what's already going to be there?

Plenty of talent. So you're one of our last NBA guests for the foreseeable future because as we move into college, we kind of pivot into the camps and stuff. So the exception would be if Katie gets traded. I could be back here, Colin. And we think there might be something coming still. Do you think so?

I don't know that is Kevin Durant. So I think, I mean, but whether it's Kevin Durant, whether it's Donovan Mitchell, whether it's Kyrie Irving, I do kind of view, and I think a lot of people around the league view that Durant and Irving Domino's as being connected, you know, that it's probably the most likely scenario. Okay. So throw this out, explain to the audience. Okay.

I hear Miami, and they've done it before, how in the hell could the Miami Heat without giving up Bam because of the Simmons contract? how could they make it work? I keep hearing this and I'm like, it doesn't make, I'm not taking Tyler Hero and Duncan Robinson and draft picks. How does Miami make it work? I mean, I think, well, market suppression would be like one place to start, right?

There's no market. Is that there would be the places that there's no other really good options. I do think the one thing Miami can offer, especially to a team, like if this is the tricky part with where Brooklyn is, that, right, is like, what is their interest level in being competitive in the foreseeable future? They don't have their own draft picks. So it's a weird, it's a weird tanking sort of situation. If they do trade Kevin Durant, it's not really incentivized for them to be awful.

Like, they should still try to be in the playoffs, really, because they don't have their picks. So I think, you know, what Miami can do is Miami can throw rotation players at you. You know, they, they find them everywhere in South Beach, right? Like, it's the easiest that you find Cuban sandwiches. You can find places to part. and you can find rotation players from Miami Heat. They're everywhere down there. And so I think that would maybe be it is if Brooklyn wanted four or five guys,

and every pick in the foreseeable future. But I mean, I think the biggest thing, right, is that if you've been betting against Pat Riley for the last 40 years, you lose. Okay, here's the other thing I don't get. Jalen Brunson, small wants the ball, not a plus defender. Donovan Mitchell, small wants the ball, not a plus defender. You got one.

It doesn't make basketball sense. to get Donovan Mitchell. You'll be small. It feels a little like Dame C.J. McCollum. You're kind of getting a little bit of the same thing. Yeah. Steph Clay, Clay is perfect for Steph. Catch and shoot and defense, right?

Mitchell's a more talented Jalen Brunson to some degree. They don't defend and they're small and they need the ball. So I like Jalen Brunson. I'm a Jalen Brunson guy. He's from Chicago. I kind of have followed his game a long time. I think tough-minded, like for sure. And it's like the defense part of it, I don't think,

want to. It's just size limitations. But I do think like playing off of Lucanacic, right, like you have to learn how to fill in the gaps. Right. You know, and I think the gaps with Donovan Mitchell would be a little bigger than they were with. So there would be an opportunity to still do more. Like, look,

if you're Jalen Brunson, you don't go to the Knicks to do less. Right? Like he is there to cash a bigger check and to expand his game, expand his sort of thumbprint on the NBA. I do think though, it does feel like it's not the destination. Right? Like the destination shouldn't be Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, the back court, like the garden's going to be packed for the finals.

There are many more steps that you would need to come from that, you know, developing, you know, a star wing. I mean, that seems to be like something you definitely kind of need to be in this mix. Right. If you don't have a super duper star, you need a excellent wing. And, you know, I mean, I don't know, is that R.J. Barrett? Is he in the trade? Like, who knows? Okay.

You're connected to the clippers. One clipper question. Okay. There is obvious frustration. I've said this about Kauai. I'm not building my culture around him. He's nonverbal. But you can add him to San Antonio's culture.

You can add him to Toronto's culture. He's good enough to win. He's about the right things. I'm not building around him. And I think now they know that's probably not his thing. Paul George, similarly like him. I don't know if he's good enough to completely build around, but I love him. So I always feel like Balmer.

Deep down there's this reservoir of a little disappointment. Okay. The Lakers are bad. These two years, they should have seized the market. Yeah. And they didn't, right? There's a little bit, Balmer's highly competitive. And he's thinking, we could have taken this market.

So here's my takeaway. Okay. Donovan Mitchell, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant. Is it possible on a fairly deep roster that Clippers could make a shocking move? I would say if they didn't like what they had as much as they do, and they've been waiting for it for a long. long time to like, you know, if you order the, the dish at dinner that takes like the 60-minute baked chicken, at minute 50, you're not going to audible to something different, right? Like,

you've been waiting, right? And they have been waiting to see all this come together. This is the result of all, like, years of work, really to point to this season, you know? So I think there's that. But I think one thing the Clippers have, and this is a huge advantage, is because they've got ownership that's been willing to go deep into the tax, they have. so many tradable, movable contracts. It's incredible. They can put together a deal. And to me, they have the chance to be, I think today, no.

I don't think a shocking movie is coming. But in December or in January, they're as adaptable as anybody in the league right now because they can put things together. I think to your point about their culture, the one thing, though, that that sort of culture vacuum is allowed, it's allowed for Tailu to step in and be that kind of guy. And we've seen that with certain teams with Doc Rivers and stuff like that. There is a place for your coach to be the guy. It can only happen in certain circumstances if you have sort of that vacuum of outward personality.

And I think Ty has sort of filled that void for them. It doesn't feel like the hole that it has been in the past when it's been filled by kind of lesser players and stuff like that. All right. Dan Wokey, L.A. Times. Great seeing you as always. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college

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advisors out there for you. So Kyler Murray is an Arizona Cardinal for the foreseeable future. A lot of guaranteed money. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Collin, we love talking about quarterbacks.

Let's go to a gentleman named Justin Fields in Chicago. We know the bears have a new regime in place for 2022, new GM and Ryan Poles, new head coach in Matt Iber Flutes. However, former Bears' offensive tackle. He also played for the Eagles. Jason Peters thinks Justin Fields is poised for a big year if one position group can get it right. Here's the sound.

All he's going to need is the offensive line to block for him and give him some time because he young, you know, to go through his reach. Once he gets older and get into the groove, because right now he's going to be like a rookie again with the new system pretty much with the new coaching staff. I'm pretty sure they got a whole new system for them, new plays. Long as the offensive line game some time, he'll do okay

this year. Once he gets that office and line set, that guy going to be special because he can throw, he can run, he can make all the plays you need to make. We have a feeling on Trevor Lawrence is talented with a bad organization. Mack Jones is limited with a really smart

coach. And then we have the Trey Lance, Justin Fields, situation where we think they're really athletic and talented, but we just don't know. So I think those are the two most interesting quarterback spaces in the NFL this year. I don't know what Trey Lant and I don't know what Justin Fields. I do think that Shanahan's so great at elevating quarterbacks, Lance has a greater chance to succeed. Remember, defensive coaches have not been allies of quarterbacks over the last four to five years.

So I think, I don't know what I'm going to get from Chicago. And I don't, the offensive line has been an issue for, I swear to God, since Olin Croyd's left, it's been an issue for like six years. What a pull that was. So, Colin, a couple bad things for fields. Pro Football Focus has the Bears ranked 31st on the offensive line. They're starting two rookies at tackle. Okay, that's bad news.

And then you know how we talk about the quarterbacks on the rookie deal getting a good receiver. Jalen Hurst just got A.J. Brown. Here are the starting receivers for the Bears. Darnell Mooney, Byron Pringle, somebody named Velvis Jones. Venus, I know him. He's a USC. He's a rookie. He's a fast guy, but not, yeah, he's a fast guy.

And they just traded for Nikiel Harry. So that's what Justin Fields will be throwing to in Chicago. On to story number two, Colin. Golden State Warriors talked about him a little bit today. They're back on top. Four titles in eight years. They've been able to keep their core together, but they've also supplemented it with young players.

GM Bob Myers is already looking forward to what they can do. next season. He said, I like our team and where it's at. I can give the young guys a chance to do it again. It's a good group. We're lucky. It'll be fun to see. We were really hunting last year. Now I guess we're back to being the hunted, which I didn't think we'd be. We'll see. I think we can handle it. Colin, Warriors are set up to contend for several more titles, correct? Seems like it. Clay Thompson should be better next year. Kvon Looney was actually the classic warrior where not much developed. Now he's a rebounding force.

Moses Moody. Jonathan Cominga, who I still don't think is quite ready. James Wiseman. My guy, Jordan Poole. Come on. Can't forget Jordan. Yeah, he's awesome. I know everybody hates it, but they've been in six finals

in eight years. I do think the Clippers match up okay with them, but I don't think they have the offensive firepower. So I think they should be favored to win the championship, along with Boston. I will say, I do think Malcolm Brogdon, is actually a nice get for the Celtics, and I think Joe Ingalls

elevates the offense from the perimeter for the buck. So I think Milwaukee, Boston Warriors absolutely should be the finals and the clippers in that second tier. How about Dante DiFincenzo, right? He's in the Warriors rotation, nice pickup. He was the final four MVP, top 20 pick, another nice edition.

And finally, Colin, staying in the NBA for story number three. Donovan Mitchell, you know, we talk about cryptic tweets and scrubbing social media. Donovan Mitchell this morning tweeting out, man, God is good. That comes after Utah Jazz

reportedly in a stalemate. Apparently, they can't find a deal for Donovan Mitchell. Now, you've been talking all day about why does this get out there? Well, why are the Jazz in a stalemate? They're not getting the six first round picks from the Knicks, right? Your thoughts on Donovan Mitchell, will he get moved?

The Knicks are a bumpy brand. They love trade rumors. People are talking about the Knicks. So you have both New York teams, the Mets and the Yankees, all over the press. NFL camps are going to start. And I really believe this. So the Jets and the Giants are going to be the talk.

So four teams in New York own the papers. And Brooklyn has stayed in the news because of KD. The one brand that nobody is discussing is the Knicks. So I think the Knicks love this stuff because people keep talking about the Knicks. Because right now this morning, it's all Yankees Mets. In three weeks, it's Yankees Mets, Jets, Giants. And Brooklyn, if they make a deal for Durant, they'll get $5. five days of press. Nobody's

talking Knicks. So I don't know if a deal is going to happen, but I know Dolan. I know how they think. They love being discussed. And right now, nobody is talking about the Knicks. Yeah, the Knicks, they're struggling. But it's going to take five or six first round picks for Mitchell. I think it'll ultimately

get done this offseason, right? At some point. Yeah. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd line. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Ben, host to the fifth hour with Ben Mallor.

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Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the Iheart radio app. podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

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A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

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got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence.

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CFOs that get it, get it. CFOs that don't, don't. Head to netsuite.com slash herds, special one-of-a-kind financing offer. NetSuite.com slash herd. I do not join fantasy leagues. I bet football games all the time. Jason McIntyre joining me today and tomorrow. Joy's back next week.

Do you, are you a fantasy football guy? I'm in at least three leagues. I got my 11-year-old in two leagues. He went to the championship last year. Fantasy and gambling, Colin, football. I love it. Come on. But you also bet a lot. I do gamble a lot, yes.

You want to go to Vegas soon, day trip with me? It's like 125 degrees. Do you see Austin, Texas? You know, my car has air conditioning, Colin. Or we can take your private jet. No, not going to do that. 11 years, three pro bowls. Levanté David of the Bucks has had an unbelievable career.

and he's joining us again. So Kyler Murray just signed a big, massive contract. So you haven't played him since I believe your rookie year. Let's go back, Levanti. You are an experienced all-pro linebacker. Here comes this kid from Oklahoma. He's kind of small. He's running around all over the place.

Take me back to that game. Do you sense Levanti he was special? Yeah, thank you for having me. But when we first played him, it was his rookie year. And we kind of knew he was going to be a threat already, especially with his athleticism. And, you know, for, you know, not a shorter guy, he's kind of stout in his stature. Got some size on him. So we already knew he was going to be a threat.

He got a nice ball. You know, he's real fast with the ball. You know, I mean, he real fast, you know, with the speed, I mean. So the way they use him, I think they utilize him the right way. And he's definitely going to be a threat for years to come. By the way, that game was a shootout. you guys won that game, but he went 27 of 44 for 324 yards and 3 TDs. I thought initially, I said this, Levanti, I said he's a little small.

I do worry about that. When you watched him, and the lineman now are 6'7, when that game was over, were you like a little surprised how successfully was throwing from the pocket? Yeah, I really was surprised. You'll think you get into him, you get hands in his face, you get him to move around a little bit. But he does actually sit in the pocket a little bit and can make the precise throws that you need to make as a quarterback. So it doesn't what a problem to see, but you can see why he's been a great player in his league. And you can see why the carton is playing the money that he deserves.

25 years from now, you're going to be sitting somewhere talking to your grandkids. And they're going to say, Levanti, what was it like to play with Tom Brady? And they're going to ask that, but beyond just winning, and they're going to ask you, tell us some stories. What has it been like for you? For me, personally, man, just seeing them come to the locker room, just being in itself. You know, every time, you know, when you get a guy like that in your locker room, you would expect them to act a certain way or be a certain way, you know, kind of be like ag and, you know, an A-hole as much. But with Tom, man, you know, with all his success and all the stuff that he's done throughout the league, man, he's just a normal guy. You know, he just want to be a part of the locker room.

We want to be like everybody else. He want to joke around with you and want to just talk to you. He knows everybody in a locker room, you know, got great relationships with people. And just the way he leads, the way he carries itself, man, his own and off the field is just incredible to witness. And I'm lucky to have him on the team. You know, you heard all the stories before, before he even came to us. you know, get a chance to experience all that. It's really cool to see.

And then, you know, obviously, you know, I'm telling my grandkids, you know, I got the chance to play with a seven-time Super Bowl champion. A guy who shattered almost every quarterback record in the NFL. So it's definitely a great kid to all of his history and his success. So it does feel a little bit. I mean, good God, he's been playing for 25 years. It does feel like, hey, this is probably the last year for him. Will it feel a little bit to you, Levanti, like, hey, man, I better.

I better suck this in. Like, this is the last year for Tommy. Does it feel a little bit like that? I mean, you never know. When somebody hit 20 years, you never know what year is going to be there last year. But this guy, he keeps going. He keeps going. But, you know, every opportunity you want to feel, man, you want to make the most of it.

And, you know, the first year he came to us, you know, definitely that chance, you know, turn over and, you know, step up in a big way. And we was able to win the Super Bowl. And then last year, you know, we did get the job done. But we was pretty successful in some areas. But then again, at the end of the day, that's not our ultimate goal. Everyone's ultimate goals, though, you know,

being in the Super Bowl and winning the Super Bowl. And that's gonna be the same mindset for this year. You know, just a guy like him, man, you wanna play hard for him, hard for him just because, you know, just type of teammate he is. Just everybody in the locker room, you know, everybody in the locker room just gravitates to him, just because, you know, already his accolades,

who he is. But I just feel like we got a bunch of great leases, in the locker room as well. He helped out with leadership as well and everybody needed. So Todd Bowles is a quiet guy. He's a great coordinator. But when he tried to be a head coach last time, he's kind of quiet. And sometimes you need somebody up there barking and yelling or whatever it is.

Yeah. Are you bummed? You probably won't see as much as Todd Bowles on a daily basis now that he's elevated to head coach. How do you got, I mean, how do you think it's going to feel? I mean, quiet as coach Bowles and not as quiet as you guys think. It's just what you see on TV or what you're around him. But when you're around him, when you're around him, when you're in a meeting room with him,

when you, you know, just see him out there on the practice field. He's talking a lot. He's talking a lot. Whether it's trash talking, motivating, or whatever it may be, he's doing some talking. So, you know, Coach Bowles is always going to be involved, obviously with the defense. He's a defensive guy.

And one thing I love about Coach Bowler, his door is always open. You know, that's one thing he told us as a defense. If you want to have questions about anything, you want to talk about whatever it may be, just come out of him. And it's just going to go the same thing. It's going to be the same thing. But this time for the whole football team as a head coach, you know, anything you want to talk about, you know, he's open to it. And that's one thing I really love and respect about him.

And he's definitely a guy who I feel like the team will love. And it's been so far as it's good. You know, everybody's been doing a good job and cooperating with him. And we're going to see how to see the go, man. but I think it's going to be real great. Your last game was a loss to the Rams. You had 11 tackles. You led your team.

You're second in the NFL and tackles since you arrived. You got money. You're set for your future. How long are you going to play? You know, every tackle takes a little off you. You've been an unbelievable player. Do you still wake up in the morning and can't wait to get to practice? Yeah, I really do.

I was just telling my friends this other day at work out. You know, I'm ready to get back to count. You know, you know, right this time is just, it's repetitive. It's the same thing. You wake up, go to work out, do you do the rest of the day. But now, man, I'm ready to get into football mode since it's getting close. I'm ready to get there. So, you know, I'll be in Tampa soon, getting ready for my Atlanta training camp, man.

Just get back around the guys, just get ready to compete and just go out there and just have fun. And as far as, you know, how far I got left to play, you know. You never know. I never know, man. I'm just playing like every year. You know, every year I feel like I'm playing. I'm going to come with a rookie mindset, come in to learn, come in and pay my best, do my best,

and we're going to see how I go from there. Levante, great player, going to get Hall of Fame votes. Congrats. Good luck in that Tampa humidity in camp. It's no day at the beach. I've covered it. I've been in it. And good talking to you again.

Appreciate you, Colin. Thank you for having me as always, man. All right. Second most tackles in the league since he was drafted. I just watched the other night. I watched the Rams' Bucks game. a replay of it. I went to work out and, as you know, lifted very heavy weights several times. And I watched the second half of it. I was tense watching that. The Rams really controlled the game,

but there were two Camaker fumbles that let one right before half, and then the second half late in the game gave them a short field. One of the great, there's so much urgency in the NFL, you know, it's a sudden death playoffs, fewer games than baseball hockey basketball. I'm watching that game. I know the outcome. And I'm nervous for the Rams. I'm like, Stafford's going to get beat by Brady. He finally has the perfect team. And then Maddie went over the top.

The other thing you realize, watching the Super Bowl in that game, good God, is Cooper Cup? Unbelievable. He is literally in big drives. He and Stafford are the office. And the Niners game. Just he is it.

I think he had six third down conversions in that game. Cooper Cup's amazing. But like you said, the Rams' Super Bowl run three like heart-stopping games to end the season. It's fun. They earned every second. I like Cooper Cup, man. I followed him on Instagram.

That's how much I like him. I don't follow a lot of like guys, you know, just like athletes, but I followed him. I'm a fan. He was a zero-star recruit. No. He's a Washington guy, right? Eastern Washington. Zero-star recruit.

Yankees Astros double-header is today's Discover card key matchup. Other banks complicate things. The redeem credit cash reward. at Discover are easy. Redeem your cash, your rewards in any amount at any time. Discover.com slash redeem rewards

terms to apply. Jay McI and I are back tomorrow. See you. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite unhumored me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make

you funnier. This week my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford

and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick you here, unpack what when you. down and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.