The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 3 - Leadership, Westbrook

Episode Date: October 26, 2022

Comparing the leadership skills of Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers The Lakers issues will not be fixed by getting rid of Russell Westbrook   Guests: Jeff Pearlman, Ric BucherSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm live in Los Angeles. We are. It's the herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Iheart radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. So one of the things, so like a lot of us, I played high school football, I played high school basketball, and I was a, you know, I played baseball when I was young. You played a lot of sports, too. I played a lot of sports growing up and currently.

I'm playing tennis today, Big Mac. All right, big match. So one of the things about football that I really liked about football, practice was hard. I grew up in rural Washington State, very wet, played in the rain a lot. But in basketball, like football is the ultimate team game. We used to have, you know, you'd set up for a play in practice, and if one person jumped off sides, we all ran. So it creates sort of this bond to get it right. You know, in baseball, you strike out, you strike out.

But in football, the left guard jumps. Our coach made us all run. We're in a unit together. And so quarterback's a very unique thing. It's football in itself as a brotherhood. All sports are to some degree. But leadership is really important. There's six receivers on every NFL team.

There's eight linebackers. There's 12 offensive linemen. If you have two quarterbacks, you really don't have any. There's a starter and then a backup. So it is. really important for you to understand that you're one of the only guys that doesn't get hit much and you don't even have to compete for your job in most instances. Mac Jones Bailey Zappy is very rare.

So there's some things that come with that. You don't have to compete for a starting job. You don't get hit at practice. You wear a jersey. Don't hit me. Leadership is a lot of things. And I believe for quarterbacks, part of that responsibility is falling on the sword, not blaming others. Eli Manning was great.

When he won, he let the other guys talk. Every game he lost in New York, he talked to the media. That's leadership. Who knows? It's fuzzy. It's nebulous. What is leadership? I don't know, but that's it.

All right? So, Russell Wilson's having the worst seven game stretch of his career. He's optimistic. Aaron Rogers is having the worst seven game stretch. He's blaming his coaches and players. Brady, who, by the way, like Aaron is thinking a lot about retirement. It's having a terrible seven game stretch.

This is so Brady, though. Brady's asked by Jim Gray about how it's going, his commitment to the franchise. And he may be BSing all of us, but he gets that everybody's going to hear this. And here's what he says. You know, I made a commitment to this team, and I love this team, and I love this organization.

I told him in March I was playing, and I've never quit on anything in my life. And I know a bunch of teammates that we all count on one another to be at our best and to work hard and to put the team first. And that's what you commit to. And that's what you want your teammates to commit to as well. That's leadership. He could be BSing all of us. He could be retiring.

But he knows in this moment, in this seven game awful stretch, I got to go deeper with my resolve and commitment to my teammates. I have to go deeper. I got to tell them, I got your back. I love you. I'm all in on this. And I don't care if it's cringy. And I don't know what leadership is, but that feels like it. Devante Adams left Green Bay.

Here's the exact quote. Because I don't think talking retirement's the thing to do. I've been very critical. Don't talk retirement. The minute you talk it, you're thinking it, you're gone. DeMonte Adams left, he said, I have aspirations of doing big things. And I was appointed my career. career, you know, I don't know if Aaron was going to be there or not.

Don't make your star receiver in a market that doesn't attract free agents to begin with this incredible athlete. Devante Adams may be the most, I mean, everything, the work ethic, the guy that make him think, I don't like living here anyway. I'm out of here. Again, I can't describe leadership. It feels like Brady on that podcast. That's what it looks like.

That's what it sounds like. I love you more. I'm more into you. I'll never quit. I've never quit anything. That's inspiring. That's like crap. I've got to go to work today.

I got to get a lift in. He's 45 years old. That's what he's saying. All right. Imagine having 10 New York Times bestsellers. I don't think there's ever been anybody as profound in terms of volume and writing excellence that tells stories that need to be told and are fascinating. Jeff Perlman, I just finished this summer, three rings.

circus. Kobe Shack, Phil in the Crazy Laker years. There's Gunslinger, Sweetness, Walter Payton, Boys Will Be Boys, the Glory Days of the Cowboys. And the new one, the last folk hero, the life and myth of Bo Jackson released yesterday. I've got a copy at home. I am going to get to that in one second for a long time. But I want to do two questions because you've done two Laker books. You know this organization back and forth. And the Westbrook thing is fascinating. I was texted during the break, is it text or texted? During the break.

Yeah. By an NBA executive, he said the deal for Buddy Healds was done. It was done. This is somebody that would know. And they push back thinking, ah, draft picks. I believe that LeBron signed up for a business venture in L.A. And basketball was second. I don't think this is a good front office.

office. I think the ownership is wobbly. Having covered Jerry Bus, do you think it's a suboptimal second tier level operation upstairs? I think that's being optimistic. I think it's a nightmare. It's a disaster. Someone asked me the other day if Jerry Bus were around right now, what would he do? If he just reappeared, he'd get rid of Palinca in a second. He would take control of the organization. He would at least find a way. I mean, they're not even fun. Like his whole thing was this half to be entertainment. They're not entertaining at all. It's a desire. I was thinking when you were just saying this. Right now, the Brooklyn Nets have Joe Harris and Seth Curry on their roster.

And the Lakers have nobody who can shoot whatsoever. I mean, it's so preposterously, poorly built. I look at Darvinham, and I think he walked into one of the worst coaching situations. It's like Luke Walton when he became coach of Sacramento. But you just can't win. I don't see how Darwin Ham wins in this environment. It's just a disaster of a roster. Davis is a shell of what he was.

Russell Westberg is an anchor in a bad way, like you're sinking with him. It's the worst I've ever seen for the Lakers. You also wrote Gunslinger, which you should really go by this book. I think it's as good as anything you've done, the remarkable, improbable, iconic life of Brett Favre, which has some Aaron Rogers in it. And I said this, you were walking into the studio, you didn't hear it. I said, Farve had a few fastballs left when he left. His couple years in Minnesota were like, we went and showed the numbers.

Good. Aaron's got two or three great years left. I think they would move off him tomorrow if they had even Teddy Bridgewater in the building. But Jordan Love can't play. So my takeaway is if it was Gino, I mean, Pete Carroll said, I got one with Gino. If it was Teddy. I think they're over him. But they have no back.

I think they were over far. I think, you know what's so funny. One's from the south, one's from the west. They've become each other. Yeah. And you know them both. It's so interesting. I actually think, forget the anti-Semitism for a minute.

I think Aaron Rogers and Kanye West are on these similar trajectories where we love them, we love them, love them, they were the best. And then you start hearing them talk. And you're like, maybe this guy isn't the best. Maybe I don't actually love Aaron. Wait, so he's anti-Vax. So he's kind of selfish. So he throws teammates under the bus.

Like, maybe I don't love this guy the way I thought I love this guy. It's the same way. Like Kanye West at one point was Jay Z, Kanye West. You know, like, maybe I don't love this guy. Maybe this guy isn't really who I thought he was. Right, right. And I just, I'm done with Aaron Rogers. I find him not interesting.

I think he's one of those guys and we all deal with them in sports who thinks he's a lot smarter than he is. Yeah. And I just, the train is left. Yeah. No, I think it's fair. Yeah. So let's get into the Bo Jackson book. I mean, there's a very short list of people in the history of sports that can do multiple things well.

It's really hard. Randy Moss tried basketball. I don't care. Randy's great. He tried basketball. Michael Jordan tried baseball. What makes, let's start with this, the book is titled The Last Folk Hero. What makes Bo the Last Folk Hero?

Well, he did so many things in a Paul Bunyan-esque sense that you can't possibly believe, but he actually did him, and there's no video around to show it. And the example, first of all, he ran a 4-1-3-40 in college, which is faster than Tyreek Hill,

and he outweigh him by about 35 to 40 pounds. He went to the Raiders in 1987. Tom Flores was a coach. He wanted to have him run a 40 on grass, in pads. 419. They didn't believe it. He did it again, ran in 417. His first Major League hit,

he was with the Royals against White Sox in 86. He beats out a ground at a second. He runs it in 3.6 seconds. It's the second fastest time from home to first by right-handed hitter ever recorded. He gets it off a ground. Steve Carlton, who at the time was a 320 game winner. Admits later, he had new idea who Steve Carlton was.

Didn't know who he was. In high school, he set five state Alabama records in track and field. He twice won the state decathlon championship, both times, without doing the last event, which was the 1,500 because he hated distance running. The second time he did it on a sprained ankle, the day after winning the decathlon and not running the 1500 because he had a sprained ankle, he started his only game of the year as a pitcher for the baseball team in a state playoff game, struck out. out 13 for the win.

And he ended his senior year. He set a national high school record with 20 home runs in a season. He did it in only 25 games, missed seven games for track and field events. And he stole 90 of 91 bases in his high school career. I found the one guy who threw him out. He was a guy named Sam Doss, who was a catcher from Jess Lanier High. He said he just got a high fast one through it really hard. And the next time up, Bo Jackson hits a home run, touches home play,

looks at Sam Doss and winks at him. What was the motivation? I mean, most of your books, there is, there's, I mean, like, FARV is a story that needs to be told. The Cowboys, the Lakers, some of them are obvious. But this has a documentary feel like a 30 for 30, which is you write it and I'm like, oh, what a great idea for a book. So tell me, what was the inspiration or the reason behind it? Nostalgia. Like, which drives me quite often in sports. Like I think about being a kid growing up in Mailpack, New York, having the Bo Jackson poster on my wall, the ball player, being in college at Delaware,

having a Bo Jackson poster on my wall with him in the different sports, thinking about Boe-Nose, just thinking about everything I loved. And the thing is, there are a lot of athletes I loved his kids who I wouldn't write books about. Like, I'm not writing a Don Mattingly book anytime soon. The fact that he vanished,

and the first thing people say is, what could he have been? what could he have been? Right. It's almost like writing about someone who died young, like writing about a Kennedy or writing about a Tupac. Or rock stars. Yeah, right.

People would just vanish. He's not dead. He's six years old. He's a grandpa in suburban Chicago. But it's like he died because he just vanished. I give people, I was a huge fan of the doors, Jim Morrison. And I think sometimes you're tortured. A lot of geniuses are tortured.

Or they're difficult. I had not a friend, but somebody I knew one time years and years ago, I was at a dinner in Seattle and somebody worked with Bill Gates. And this was like 25, 30 years ago. We knew who Bill Gates was. He was a genius. It was like one of the first like, like Elon Musk where it's like, oh, he's smarter than the whole world. And he said that, and this person I was having dinner with was the smartest guy at the table by a mile.

And he said, he goes, Gates could walk in to a monthly meeting, have not read any prospectus or anything. you had worked on something for a year and a half and he could pick it apart instantly. Of the 400 departments instantly. And it's just like, oh, yo, yo, this isn't even smart. And he said he could have a high volume and be difficult. And I'm like, and I remember thinking of that dinner, if you're that smart, it is frustrating.

You get everything sooner than even smart people. There are in your book, Bow's not always the most hugable guy. Now, let's talk about. about that. Do you think when you written a book, he was tortured a little bit? Like he's, he can be rough on people. It's not all pretty here. No, and I think it's important in sports, in particular, we're such a diverse clientele we cover to remember where guys come from and look at their background and explore it. He grew up dirt, dirt poor to a single mom in Bessmer,

Alabama. He was one of 10 kids in the house at the same time, a three-room house, not a three-bedroom house, or three-room house. He slept on the floor. He would get burns from the heater when he would roll into the heater that had an outhouse because they had no running water. It was tar paper ceiling. His father, A.D. Adams, who had very little ado with him, lived across town with his own family. Bo Jackson had a severe stutter. He was held back in school. He was a bully, et cetera, et cetera. So when all of a sudden you're thrown onto the national stage and you're this athletic phenom and people say, you should be happy. This is amazing. Look, you should. Why are, well, you have to remember where this guy came from and the tortured background he came from. And the miracle of Bo

Jackson is all he overcame. I mean, he overcame so much to become so much. I just think his life as a triumph. And you know what I love about the guy? Like more than anything, he's not saying to anyone, I could have been Eric Dickerson. I could have been Jim Brown. I could have been whoever, Sean Green. Like, he's not that guy. He's the guy who just plays golf, gave money to the Uvaldi families. I saw that. He's just a decent guy. He's a grandpa. Like he's not, we're all like, what a shame. And he's like, I don't really see it. Yeah. I think. like if you're young, let's say you're 25 years old and you love sports, it's hard to explain how big he was.

I mean, Bo knows was for a long time, the biggest, everybody referenced it constantly for about seven years. It was the biggest ad campaign in the country. Presidents, everybody said Bo knows. Like it became a running,

you know, like an iconic term. Is there a favorite, um, Bo moment for you? I know I don't like to bring it down. Well, I'll relate to that one for one of them.

So the Bo knows campaign, Remember the, Bo, you don't know, Diddley campaign with Bo Diddley. That was kind of the big one. With all the different athletes, Bo knows baseball. Okay. It's 1989. Bo is about to start his only All-Star game. Tony Lewis is the manager.

He says, I'm going to lead you off in Bat Wade Bog second just for the moment. And Nike decides, before that decision is made, the whole Bo-Nose ad campaign is really going to premiere in a commercial during the baseball all-star game. The baseball-all-star game, as you know, used to be an enormous, enormous event where we would all watch it. Oh, yeah. Right. This game is an Anaheimmon-A-Han Angels. stadium. It's 1989. Bo Jackson's leading off for the American League. Ronald Reagan and

Vince Scullier are in the booth calling the first inning. Tom Seaver was calling with Vince Scully, but Reagan came in for an inning. So he's calling it. Bo Jackson comes up and Rick Russell is pitching. 40-year-old started for the Giants. Second pitch, he throws a slider. Jackson swings, hits it. And the ball, it's this beautiful day in California. It soars onto the black behind, you know, in the center field. And at Mickey Mantle's restaurant in New York City, all the Nike executives are watching this on TV because they have the ad premiering in the fourth inning of that game. And they are leaping up and down, jumping, high-fiving because this moment is the introduction to the world of the Boe-Nose campaign.

And literally it happens after Bo hits a home run to lead off the All-Star game. Wow. It's crazy. When you did exhaustive interviews for this, didn't you interview 700 people or something? Yeah. That's insane. I have no life. Well, at least something comes of it.

Did he have, obviously there were awe-inspiring interviews. Give me a teammate or two. What did pro athletes that you interviewed, what did they make of Bo? I mean, they're all the best high school athlete, the best, a pro athlete's the best athlete in Los Angeles. You'd be the best athlete in Orange County. Yeah. And you may make the pros. What did other pro athletes make of him?

So there's this run. Bo Jackson's first touchdown run in the NFL came against the Broncos. You've seen the video. You may not remember it. He runs over Mike Hardin. Like just run in the Broncos, runs over him. And I talked to Tony Lilly was a defensive back with the Broncos. He played against Boat, Florida.

And he said on that play, James Lofton, a Raiders wide receiver at the time, was blocking him. And Lily sees Bo Jackson run over Hardin. And he says to Lofton as he's blocking him, don't let go of me. Don't let go of me. Don't let go of me. I don't want. And the Broncos other defensive back who was near the play was Mark Haynes, the former giant defensive back. And he literally said, Haynes said to him later, I just decided I want no part of that. And if you look, he's kind of off to the side of the play.

Like they were terrified. I talked to a lot of guys who played in the Seattle game, the Monday night game with, with Boz. They said two things. Number one, they all hated Brian Bosworth. All his teammates hated him. Like, they love that Bo Jackson ran over Brian Bosworth. And number two, is they're all like, tackling Bo Jackson was like running into a freaking brick on the front of a train. Like it just hurt. It hurt. And you didn't want to do it. So seeing Boz get steamrolled was joy for them.

Yeah. And they just didn't want to deal with him. Yeah. The only, the two running backs in my life that it looked semi-similar were Earl Campbell and Adrian Peterson. Neither ran a 4-1-3-40. No, no, no.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I remember talking to an NFL guy years ago. It was a coach, actually, and he's like, we had guys that, You know, they got hurt that week. Yeah. When Adrian, you know, it's almost like John Kruk with Randy Johnson. I'm going to take a pass on this. Yeah.

So the book is called The Last Folk Hero, the life and myth of Bo Jackson. You know, I think it's what's interesting is we don't understand. Everybody's got a different path in life. As you were documenting, documenting this, just as you tell me the story, I feel so sad for kids that live that life. I remember talking to Jerry DeNardo, a former coach. He recruited kids in the South. There were dirt floors occasionally. Former Vandy coach.

Neat guy. I think he owns a restaurant now in Bloomington, Indiana, and he told me stories about recruiting in the South. I'm a Northwest kid. I didn't even understand it. So he goes to Auburn. So now Auburn's got like, you know, you're an athlete. Bo going from abject poverty to Auburn.

Are the Auburn years at all fascinating, or is it just a brief stop? Oh, no, riveting, absolutely riveting. So, first of all, Auburn is, at the time especially, it's a very conservative, 99% white school. They literally have a fraternity of the time, Kappa Alpha, that does a Southern Heritage Week, and they have a parade, the Southern Pride Week, I think it was called, where all the brothers dress in Confederate soldier outfits,

their girlfriends dress in antebellum dresses, and they would get kids, local African-American kids, to dress up as slaves. they would pay them and they would do this thing um i talked to lionel james little train james yeah i don't remember he played for the chargers later he was bo's teammate he died actually a couple months ago lovely guy and he said to me uh beau and lino and another teammate lived together sophomore year but the athletic dorm was called suel hall and it was under construction so they put all the athletes and trailers and lionel told me that pat die the coach said to him said one day look i know you guys are dating

white women. He goes, it's fine with me. We brought you here. It's fair. I don't know how it's going to go over in the community. Probably not great. I'm going to put you guys on a trailer on the outskirts of town so people don't really see what's going on. And that was sort of, it was a crazy, like, they were basically athletes at Auburnback, then African-American athletes were in this dormitory. They were sort of secluded. They were, they were fed great and they were treated like Kings. But Lionel James said this to me too. He's like, he said there was a game against Florida. I broke all five fingers in my hand in this game. everyone's cheering for you, but you do ask yourself at times,

am I just to use the N-word? Am I just an N-word carrying a football for you guys, or do you actually care about me? Do I matter to you? And I think that was a fair sort of question about playing at Auburn back in the day. Do you care about me? Would you want your daughter dating me? Or am I just entertainment for you?

So take me, I don't remember this. He leaves Auburn. Take me to the end of Auburn and the beginning of the mythical pro career. Well, the best is this. He's a, so the Buccaneers have the number one pick in the 86 draft, right? Tampa Bay Buccaneers have the number one. They finished 2 and 14,

number one pick in the upcoming draft. You call overhouse as the owner. Yes. And they decide they're going to fly Boe in for a physical before the draft, which was against SEC rules at the time. And they fly him in, Bo doesn't know what he's against, and he's playing baseball.

They fly him in, they give him a physical. Hal Baird was a coach at Auburn, the baseball coach, and how Baird says to someone, where's Bo? It was before they were playing a game that day against Alabama Birmingham. Where's Bo?

I think he's on a plane. I think he went to Tampa. He what? I went to Tampa to meet with the Buccaneers. He what? Bo comes back. Turns out he lost his eligibility. The Buccaneers cost him his eligibility.

Bo always blamed. Bo had a business manager, which you couldn't have anyway, dealing with the Buccaneers. And he always blamed the Bucs. So the Bucs have the number one pick in the draft. And Boe's like, I'm not playing in Tampa. You'll play in Tampa.

You'll play in Tampa. His agents convinced him after the draft of fly and meet with the Buccaneers. You, Culverhouse, gets Steve Young to go to dinner. Steve Young was a quarterback, the bucks of the time. I remember that. It's a dinner. Steve Young, Bo Jackson, Culverhouse. Steve told me this story.

Culverhouse is like, I'll leave you two to talk for a little bit because he wanted Steve Young to give Bo the sales pitch. Culverhouse gets up. Bo Jackson leans into Steve Young and says, just so you know, man, there's no effing way I'm ever playing here. And Steve Young's like, I guess my job's over. and they drafted him number one. Lehman Bennett was a coach of the buck.

He said to Culverhouse, you can't draft him unless you know, oh yeah, we'll take care of it, we'll take care of it. The Royals draft him. They take a flyer on him in the fourth round. He hates the Buccaneers. He likes the Royals. He doesn't mind shocking the world. He's a man of integrity.

He feels like the Buccaneers did him wrong. I'm going to play baseball. They play baseball. Wow. It's crazy. So these are the kind of stories you get with Jeff. I'm also the host of two writers Slingy Yang podcast. This is really good stuff.

There are so many stories here, and this is why we bring Jeff on. I wore shoes this time too, by the way. I wore shoes this time. Last time I was in flip flaps, but I wore shoes. California guy. I will say this. This is a movie.

Like not every book's a movie. This is a movie. His story is amazing. It's amazing and it's inspiring, and it's cool that he walked away and was comfortable walking away. walking away. And he's a granddad, burbs of Chicago. He goes up to that cold weather of Chicago. Shovels his own driveway, drives a Ford truck, just a good. He's a guy. He's just a guy. He's not

going to see him ripping Derek Henry on TV next week. He's just not that guy. He's not that guy in a great way. What happens if it would be so funny if you had like a Thanksgiving game and all the 60-year-old men showed up and you have a sweeped old bow. I don't know if his hip would hold up, but it'd be kind of cool. That's probably right. Yeah. What a pleasure to see you again. You as well. Thank you. Jeff Perlman. The book is The Last Folk Hero, The Life and of Bo Jackson, it was released yesterday. So go, you know, Amazon, wherever books are, you'll get it. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports

Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all. Bet it in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Drapes it into the knees. Weiler, seven scoreless innings. Strike three.

Bullseye. Swarber was ready. Kyle Swarber tees off. Harper coming up. One swing from the World Series. Hits one in the air. Left center field. The 2022 World Series begins Friday as Bryce Harper and the Phillies

look to continue their storybook postseason run against an Astros team making their fourth trip to the fall classic in the last six seasons. Coverage begins Friday at 7 Eastern 4 Pacific only on Fox and Fox Sports app. Jay Mack with. The news. This is the

herd line news. I feel like the show hasn't talked New York Giants this much since I've been at the network. It's crazy how bad they did. Six and one? Yeah. It's a real team. So we're going, Daniel Jones here. Remember, the Giants declined his fifth year option, which will make him a free agent

after the season. Giants are six and one having one of their best starts in years, so could they decide to keep him anyway? Former GM, Scott Pioly, thinks it's a real possibility. he said, I think there's a great chance. The Giants made a business decision that was the right decision at the time. What Daniel Jones is showing, not only that he's playing well, but that he's developing well under Brian Dable,

he knows he's in a situation right now where he's got a coach who knows him, trusts him, can accentuate his positives and his limitations. This, at the end of the year, can be a great marriage of both sides are smart and fair with each other. Colin, my only problem with this is every quarterback that's eligible is going to want to work with Brian Dable. Like if Aaron Rogers tries to force a trade, you want to get him. Dibble. Look at what he did with Josh Allen. He's resurrecting Daniel Jones.

I don't know that Jones has any leverage here. He doesn't have a bunch of leverage. Dable is so outstanding. I think the way the market is interpreting it is, he's so good that he's taking a C and making it a B-minus. But the next coach probably would revert back to a C. You've seen this before. Jeff Tedford had this for a while in college. His quarterbacks would be great in college.

They'd go to the NFL and not play as well. Like a Joey Harrington. And, you know, so after a while, people are like, it's the coach. Saban did this with corners. For years and years, Saban, remember his first six, seven years in Alabama? His corners would go to the NFL. You remember Dee Milliner? Well, there were a lot of them.

The Jets took him in the top 15, and he was a colossal bust. So sometimes you do get a coach who is so good. He elevates. I mean, take Jerry. Garrett Goff, a bust with Fisher struggling with Dan Campbell. Is he good or is it just McVeigh? I think that's a legitimate question. After watching the four turnovers against the Cowboys, I'd say no. Now, the interesting thing is, let's say the Giants say, thank you for your service, Daniel Jones. We don't want you back. What do you think the market is out there for Daniel Jones?

Is there any team that would have him as their starter right now? I think if you had an offensive coach that you really liked, you'd consider it. but I don't think it would be, it would be not, it would be option B. Yeah. But I think if you had, you know, you had an offensive coach, you liked him, you didn't have an answer to a quarterback. Like the Green Bay Packers, Aaron retires. I think Daniel's on a short list.

I don't know if he's at top of it, but he's not right. He's had Jordan love in the system for three years. Come on. No, no. That's done. That's over. A decision's been rendered. That's over.

Bold. Okay. All right. Moving on. Taylor Heineke got the big dub over the Packers in his first start of the season for the injured Carson Wents. One of the conditions of the Wents trade was that if he doesn't play at least 70% of the snaps, that Washington draft pick will be a third round pick in exchange for Wence instead

of a second. Ron Rivera isn't going to let that effect whether Wenz gets his job back. Yeah, right. Here's what Rivera said. Well, it shouldn't have to, but then again, we'll see. I don't want to bench a guy and not play a guy because it's something that we put in a contract. We're going to try and win at the same time.

We also got to try and develop our younger players. Ron Rivera's being very politically correct there. Carson Wentz is toast. I'm telling you, no shot that he gets a starting job back unless Taylor Heineke's injured. And they have the young kid Sam Howell from North Carolina that they haven't seen. I think they've moved off Carson Wentz. Yeah, I don't know what the future holds for him. Three teens and three years, Colin?

Done. Finally. Oh, this is good. NBA last night. I know you were watching. Things got heated between Clay Thompson and Devon. Evan Booker last night in the Sun's win over the Warriors. A lot of jaw jacket in this one.

They were exchanging words for several minutes in the third quarter and then bumped chest and got the double technicals. As Clay turned away, he shoved bridges when the two walked into each other and then he got the second tech and was ejected. If you're looking, he's flashing four fingers at Devin Booker. I got four rings. How many you got? Listen, I put this on social media last night.

Can I love both of them? I love both of them as players. You can, but Sun's fans got a lot. angry at this, because this was Clay's, the first ejection of his career. The Suns, since they got Chris Paul, have been the mouthiest team in the NBA. Chris Paul is still jealous of Steph Curry.

Because remember, Curry, Chris Paul was next in line with the Lob City Clippers. And Curry passed him like a comment. And remember, Jake Crowder talks a lot of trash with the Lakers, Devin Booker and the Mavs last year. Like, the Sun's team really thinks highly of themselves. I don't like

the Suns this year. Something seems awful. You know, I watched Dallas last night. What do you make of that? Why isn't Christian Wood starting? I know I lost half your audience with that comment, but Christian Wood's a good player. Luca does not look happy when they lose. I don't know.

I just don't love the chemistry. I don't love what I see. Pelicans last night, fun. You like new and fresh. I do. I like new. Anthony Simons. How about that?

Six-3s. We do a morning call, and you're raving about Anthony Simons for minutes. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Six-3s. He could not miss. That guy's giving you seven tomorrow, He's like Jordan Poole on steroids. I mean, that guy's just a bucket getter.

He really scores. All right. J-Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, this is Jason McIntyre.

Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day. Straight Fire. gives you honest opinions on all the biggest sports headlines, accurate stats to help you win big at the sports book, and all the best guests. Do yourself a favor and listen to Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun. Thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little count? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years

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Good stuff today. Jeff Perlman's books, fantastic. Joel Clatt, Nick Wright, All-Star show today. Rick Buecker is going to be joining us. He's been covering the NBA since the early 90s. And it is interesting as the Lakers play again tonight. And so I think they play Denver tonight. Denver just got surprisingly beat by the Blazers.

So Denver's going to be on high alert. bad mood. Yokic, I didn't see a ton of it. I saw a bunch of highlights. Yokic apparently didn't play well. So Lakers are going to run potentially into a buzzsaw. Then I had a more talented team off an ugly loss, and they'll be totally focused. And so much of the NBA, so I would presume the Lakers are going to face a Denver team in a bad mood tonight.

Let's start with that Rick Buecker, Fox Sports analyst. I mean, at this point, the Westbrook thing doesn't work. Darvin Ham probably wishes they would have moved off. Let's just get to this then. Do you believe they move Westbrook, move him before the trade deadline? Yes, I do, but that's not the solution to their problems. I'm taking exception to all of this Westbrook slander as if he is the cause of all their problems and addition by subtraction and all that.

Colin, I don't know if you're on that bandwagon or not. Are you of the mind that getting rid of Westbrook solves everything? This will be, I think, the eighth straight year. They'll be in the bottom 10 and 3-point shooting. So this is a systemic issue. They don't get where the league is going. So I've said, I put a moratorium on Russ Slander. I said, he's not the problem.

He is, what do I say? He's a symptom of the Lakers problem. He's a symptom of it. He's not the cause. Agreed. Agreed. And for that reason. And not only do they not shoot the three well, they don't defend it particularly well.

But Westbrook is only taking four threes a game. You look at Patrick Beverly or Austin Reeves or Lonnie Walker or LeBron James, who's taking a career high nine three-pointers a game and only shooting 25%. That's not going to get it done. So especially with LeBron, I don't need LeBron out at the three-point arc. He's the only or at least best playmaker that they have. So if you're going to create open shots for other people, he needs to be working inside, not outside. That's one of the many issues that the Lakers have.

But it's not resolved with Westbrook, and I said it. And you and Jason are the resident wagerers here on the show. And I hope that you took my advice at the beginning of the year, which was for the, the Lakers total wins that you take the under on, I believe it was set at 44 and a half. I hope both of you got in on that when I offered it because it was very good advice. Okay. By the way, last night, Clay Thompson doesn't get thrown out of games. He's pretty chill.

The Devin Booker stuff. Yeah. What do you make up? You got Monty Williams in the center. Chris Paul's aging. Is it possible that Phoenix is the Sacramento Kings? They got close. They never get back.

back and it may be time to rearrange the chairs here that remember sacramento we thought was going to be going to get it they lose a heartbreaker to coby and the lakers and it just took the wind out of their sales is that what phoenix is you're you're on to something i do not like the vibe that i'm getting from the phoenix suns i've been told over and over again when they matched and they kept dandre aighton while everybody thought that kept their championship hopes or their window open DeAndre Aiton doesn't look like a guy who wants to be there or is in any better alignment with Monty Williams than he was at the end of last season. Chris Paul just looks old. Doesn't look like he can get to his spots anymore.

All his shots are short. I don't know if that evolves over the course of the season. But I agree with you. There's just something about the chemistry there that isn't working. Now, what I find interesting is this back and forth with. Clay Thompson and the Warriors and a lot of jawing by Clay and the Warriors. And the sense that I get is that the Sons and other teams sense a certain vulnerability with the Warriors at this stage, particularly defensively. And Clay and the Warriors are feeling that and they're feeling disrespected. And Clay

once upon a time, he might have chirped a little bit, but then he was going to lock you down and he was going to hit some threes in your eye, and that was going to be his answer. I don't know that Clay has that ability at this stage. So there's a little less playing and a little more jawing as a result. Anybody in the NBA that surprised you so far, Utah, obviously, we thought was a tank. They played well. I don't think they'll sustain it. But is there anything you see and think, oh, that's sustainable. That's surprising. Ooh, sustainable is a good... Portland?

That makes it a little trickier. The New York Knicks are better and more competitive than I expected. And obviously the Portland Trailblazers and what they are doing, being undefeated at this stage. I didn't know what to expect. I've always liked Anthony Simons. I thought that they were going to move in that direction and move C.J. McCullum along. I saw that coming. Shaden Sharp has been a relevant.

revelation. But I really like this. I like this Portland team. And most important, I think that Damien Lillard made the wise choice in terms of staying. Not only is he getting an additional $120 million, but this is a young team that he can grow old with, certainly better than any of the other options that were presented last summer. Yeah, I mean, Nerkitz has always been good when he's healthy. And they got Grant from Detroit. He's a good player. He can give you 16, 17, 17 to So it's a pretty legitimate team. All right, Ben Simmons, early report card on what you see with the enigmatic guard, forward, whatever he is. You know, we never expected, or I never expected, the offense to suddenly transform itself in terms of what we're getting from Ben Simmons.

But I thought he would be a positive defensively, certainly. I thought he would change the equation there. I don't know if you've looked at his defensive rating. As of right now, it's 123. The highest previous defensive rating he ever had was 106, I believe. It is through the roof. He has been a negative defensively. All his defensive numbers are in the negatives.

I never anticipated that. But maybe the most embarrassing thing was the play against the Grizzlies, and it starts here, where we had the foul. Actually, where it started was the inbound. They rolled it up to court. The grizzlies are leading by six. And Ben Simmons is guarding John Morant, and he allows him to roll the ball all the way into the front court, burning off 30 seconds before the shot clock starts. That's taking an entire possession away from. from the Nets as they're trailing in a game in the final minutes. It was such a brain cramp that all the ideas of the Brooklyn Nets being so talented,

they're too talented to fail and all of that, not when you're making decisions like that. And Ben Simmons, forget the offense. He was supposed to be the guy, your floor general, your defensive catalyst. He has been none of those things. And it's why, again, I don't know if you did it, Colin or Jason, but I told you to take the under on the win total for the Brooklyn Nets as well. So I'm hoping that you guys followed at least some of my advice.

Well, we always do, Rick. Fox Sports, NBA analyst. Talk more regularly with Rick in the next month or two. Good seeing you, buddy. Good to see you. We all have different ideas about success, achieve it at different times. retirement coming up, don't go alone, go with Steeful, invest in your success, a Steeful Financial Advisor, S-T-I-F-E-L Midwest Bay, Steeful Nicholas and Company.

See you tomorrow. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy

far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.