The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Marcedes Lewis

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Colin talks to NFL TE Marcedes Lewis about his interest in still playing in the NFL, training camp, how long it takes to see if someone can make it in the league, and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jen should win.

She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Leonard Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast.

Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com. or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. J. Mack, you're just figuring out that Stephen Colbert story that was a big hot topic all weekend. Listen, man, on the weekends, I try to spend time with the fam, do some sports. I play volleyball and basketball. Saturday was amazing.

I'm not online. I'm not reading. Come on. I'm relaxing. Enjoying summer. Okay. What are you doing in Chicago? You're reading about Colbert, the demise of late... Yesterday by 1130, I was watching the British Open, reading my Fox Sports College Football Preview Book, and I may have tipped an early one just to feel good about myself. So, by the way, do they have cigars in Chicago,

or are you off the cigars now? Do they have cigars in Chicago? Yeah, they even have them in Wisconsin, the state above us. Kenosha has a cigar story about you. Come on, that's not an actual town. What Keegan probably does as well. Kenosha, that's a town? Yeah.

It's got, yeah, it's beautiful. You have to get out here and realize there's a world beyond the 213 area code, 818. You know, so, what's the big, what? I forgot what the area code was there. All right, J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Let's talk a little Detroit Lions, Colin. I still remember that loss in the playoffs to Washington. Golf was horrible. But, Jamir Gibbs, the great running back for Detroit. He said he's ready to do whatever it takes to win a Super Bowl. He's willing to line up at safety or nickelback. I guess he's been reading about Travis Hunter. I don't know, Colin.

I feel like the windows kind of closing for the Lions. Gibb's a superstar, but it feels like the ship is sailed. Windows don't close when you have a really good general manager and scouting department. And unlike the Bengals, the Lions have poured more money into it. So this is an organization that has drafted. Similarly to Philadelphia has hit on so many first, second and third round draft picks that they are going to keep the books reasonable. Aidan Hutchison comes back this year.

They did lose a center and they addressed that in the draft. They went heavy interior lineman. I think there are certain team. Baltimore drafts too well. Philadelphia, the Rams. Buffalo is drafted very well. Green Bay historically drafts well. If you draft well, your window.

Those may regress, but they don't close. Dallas is closed because they have not. New England, Belichick at the end, closed. They drafted for them. I did see that they suffered another injury. The Lions over the weekend lost a defensive starter for the season. They just can't stay healthy. It's unfortunate.

But let's move on to next up, the New York Giants, Colin. I think both of us were shocked when they drafted Jackson Dart in the first round. Did not make sense to me. Russell Wilson still expected to get the start, but everybody's expecting a lot of Jackson Dart this season. Dart told the New York Post he ain't scared of the pressure that comes with playing in New York, adding that this is where he wanted to be. Any thoughts here on Jackson Dart?

I'm just telling you, every time I read about the Giants, the coaching staff loves Jackson Dart, loves him. Well, I mean, there's things that I think work in Jackson Darts favor. Think about it. As a rookie quarterback, if I said, what three things do you want? Number one, offensive coach, number two, a good left tackle, number three, a number one receiver. He's got all of them. If I came into the league, or my son did, I'd say, please give him an offensive coach,

please protect his backside and give him a weapon. And they have all those. So the idea this is a bad place for Jackson Dart. Now a bad place for Jackson Dart would have been drafted to the Bears last year where Caleb Williams got an O-line that regressed, a defensive coach, kind of a number one, but there was just in a really good division. This is about as good as you're going to do as a rookie quarterback. And it's funny about the Giants.

I like their defensive front. So I do think defensively, you know, it's, they can make things uncomfortable for you. Whoever quarterbacks them will not have to win shootouts every week. It's, if the Giants right now had the quarterback right, I'd think differently about them. The schedule is brutal, but there are elements, defensive line, receiver, left tackle, coach. There's some stuff there I like. Yeah, I had an analytics guy on my podcast last week, and he said the Giants unequivocally have the toughest schedule in the NFC.

Yes. So, I mean, I feel bad for Jackson Dart. I mean, I don't see a ton of wins on this schedule. Maybe you get the layup in New Orleans. But again, facing right out of the gate, Washington, Kansas City, Chargers, Eagles, Broncos, Eagles, those are all playoff teams from last year. Like, I don't know how Russell Wilson's going to still be the quarterback come like Halloween. They're going to just have to try Dart.

The only reason I don't think this is good, Colin, is because what happens if Dayball gets blown out? If they win four or five games, he's getting dusted, right? And then it's like DART has to win over the new head coach. Yeah. I don't see it. Now, maybe Malik Neighbors is heroic. I'm still surprised he's considered like a top seven receiver in the league already.

But I don't see it happening for Jackson DART and the Giants is here. Final story, Colin, let's go to the Kansas City Chiefs, and we got some good news for them. George Carl Laftus, the edge rusher, I believe he went to Purdue. He got a four-year $93 million contract extension. First round pick of the Chiefs. He's been solid since his rookie year. I don't think he's been spectacular, but you need a bunch of these good edge rushers to deliver

because you've got to rotate them in and keep them out of. Look who's in the division now. Bo Nix and Sean Payton, Justin Herbert, and Jim Harbaugh. If you're going to pay your defense, it's pass rush guys. So he was a good player at Purdue. He's been a very productive. Chris Jones getting a bit older, although Chris still has some years remaining on his deal. But if you're going to pay, when you get into a division, you've got to look at your division and say, who do we have to stop?

Well, if you're Kansas City, now the Chargers have two good offensive tackles, a real run game, Harbon Herbert. You probably want to pay a pass rusher. And by the way, you got Sean Payton, Bow Nicks, Garrett Bowles is a great left tackle. So if you start looking at the matchups in the division, Karloftis is a guy I'm probably going to pay. Yeah, I'm looking at the Chief Super Bowl stats. Carl Laft has actually had one of the two sacks in the Super Bowl. Yeah, not a lot of highlights on that team.

They got just boat-raised by the Eagles. One of us here on this show called that, but, you know, that's either here or there. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Not only as he played more NFL games than any current NFL player,

He didn't miss a game for the Chicago Bears the last two years. Now he's a free agent. He's our buddy Mercedes-Luice, a pro-bowler 19 years in the NFL, who I'm told just got done working out. Last time I talked to you wanted to play, are you still willing to get on a roster? Would you play today? Yeah, I mean, right now, the goal is to play one more year.

You know, just 19 is amazing. I'm super grateful for that. Obviously, we've had a conversation about it. 20 kind of grounds off the legacy for me. So right now it's just standard operating the seizure, just working out and doing my thing, man. Is there a team you fit? Who needs blocking Tide End who's smart?

Who needs a guy like Mercedes-Lews? Where do you fit? I mean, obviously, a team that's definitely going to run the ball, a team that play pass and play action that kind of ties the running and pass game together. I'm not necessarily going to throw teams out there, but there's been a few that have kind of reached out

kind of probing to see if I'm going to continue to play. So we'll see our source out. You know, obviously with me, it's all about controlling what I can control. And what I can control is being in great shape and being ready when my name is called. So, you know, here we go. Did Green Bay reach out, Baltimore?

No, those two didn't reach out. Okay, well, they both have a very extensive run game. Okay. All right, throw it up there. Did Arizona reach out? What did you make of that one? Did Arizona reach out? Okay.

Hey, man, I'm a journalist, Mercedes. That's what journalists do. No, I know. No, I get it. I mean, it's, again, it's been like three or four. Obviously, they're trying to make sure they have what they need on the roster. And, you know, we'll see what happens once camp gets going. You know, the grind.

as far as camp and how hard it is to stay healthy in this league. So for me, it's just about kind of figuring out what that magic number is going to be for me in my mind of when I want to go ahead and retire, you know, because I don't see myself necessarily waiting the whole season. Right now, I'm still very inspired and motivated to go for one more year. I'll just take them one day at a time and see what happens. Live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Hey, we're Kavino and Rich. Fox Sports Radio every day, 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern. But here's the thing. We never have enough time to get to everything we want to get to. And that's why we have a brand new podcast called Overpromised. You see, we're having so much fun in our two-hour show. We never get to everything. Honestly, because this guy is over-promising things we never have time for. You blubberlips. Blame and me. Well, you know what?

It's called Overpromise. You should be good at it because you've been Oprah promising women for years. Well, it's a Kavino and Rich after show, and we want you to be a part of it. We're going to be talking sports, of course, but we're also going to talk life and relationships. And if Rich and I are arguing about something

or we didn't have enough time, it will continue on our after show called Overpromised. Well, if you don't get enough, Kavino and Rich, make sure you check out Overpromised, and also uncensored, by the way. So maybe we'll go at it even a little harder. It's going to be the best after show podcast of all time. There you go. Overpromising.

And remember, you could see it on YouTube, but definitely join us. Listen to Overpromised with Kavino and Rich on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis.

And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. She went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Seek. Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays,

the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments, to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClace on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Well, you didn't miss any games with the Bears. We talked about Caleb Williams. I said one of the things that's fascinating about him, there's a wide range of outcomes. most of his issues, in my opinion, are solvable. Like Lamar Jackson, when he came into the league, didn't have much of a pocket presence because he had such a capability. He didn't have to sit in the pocket. Two years later, from about year three to now, you're like, okay, he's very comfortable in the pocket.

He senses pressure. He doesn't just bolt. Josh Allen wasn't accurate. By year three, you're like, oh, he's developed accuracy. I think that's kind of Caleb. It's not an arm, elusiveness, toughness, smart. I don't worry about that stuff. You played with him.

I don't worry about that. But he does miss laps. He can be a little hero ball. He does hold on to the ball too long. When you are playing with him, the holding on to the ball too long, I think that's understood. A lot of people have talked about that. How do you solve that? Having a plan.

If you remember when we spoke a little while ago about Caleb, it was about just a disarray that the offense was in. and the firing of the coaches and just different philosophies. I think it was just too many cooks in the kitchen at that time. And obviously coming in for his rookie season, it's kind of tough to kind of go through that. But at the same time, you know, who he is as a player, as a person, who he sees himself as every day when he wakes up in the morning. The guy wants to be great.

He wants to be coachable. I think right now he's in a really good situation now. with the new coach and staff, when they added some support there for him, and I think everything that you just mentioned won't be an issue soon. I mean, he's a guy that, as far as just a dude being able to play the game of football, he can do it.

So it's just about having a plan and making sure that, you know, what he wants and what he's really good at is in alignment with Ben. And I'm pretty sure they're over there working hard at it to make sure they're putting their thing so that he's successful this year. I just look forward to sitting in and play. I think he's going to be silent. So quarterback's over 40 and the NFL have won 12 playoff games ever, and Brady's got 10 of them.

All right, so it's hard. And I was surprised Aaron went to Pittsburgh. My take his first ballot hall ofamer. He did New York. Like Farve, it was messy. I could see him just retiring. He's a West Coast guy. And I do think that Pittsburgh's been a little tone deaf on offense.

They can't get the O line right for six years, even though I like some of their offensive personality. I think they've drafted the West Virginia Center, the Oregon State linemen. Like I like some of their offensive line personnel that can't get it right. Were you surprised he did decide, because he could have retired, were you surprised he decided to play out east with the Steelers? No, I wasn't surprised. And I don't know if you remember when, you know, you asked me that question maybe a couple months ago,

I picked for him to go to Pittsburgh. I just felt like, you know, to get out of New York, get on a team where you're doing, defense is solid. Obviously, they, you know, they're trying to figure it out on offense, but A-Rod may be that piece, right? Like, if we think about it, the quarterbacks that were there, if you name, you know, five or six quarterbacks as they've had, I'm going to still pick A-Rod over all of them, and they've been able to get to the playoffs and have winning season. So, you know, I'm looking forward to see how A-Rod messes in with Pittsburgh and see if he can get that offense going. But I think with him there, it gives them a good shot.

you know it's funny about you came into the league big tall athletic you could go vertical and then you pivoted at some point in your career to more of a blocking tight end you always blocked but you became more of a blocking tight end you know tight end is weird Antonio gates was undrafted that's crazy Travis Kelsey, George Kittle, like fifth round guys. It's just, it's crazy to me. And I go back to, you were at the end of the first round of Jacksonville. It does seem, though, that many tight ends have surprised us. Nobody thought Kittl was going to do this. I mean, seriously, Antonio Gates is an undrafted Hall of Famer. When you watch young tight ends, what do you look for that maybe I wouldn't?

You watch college football and you say that works, that doesn't. Like what would you look at if you ever coached or you went into a front office? And I said, Mercedes, we got four tight ends on the board. What do you like and what do you don't like? What would you pinpoint? I think the first thing I'd probably look for is toughness. You know, obviously you can go out there, run around, catch a ball. Cool, but are you tough?

You know, are you a willing blocker? Are you down to get dirty? Can you, you know, do the dirty work. And as far as like your skill set, can you bend, right? Like a lot of the guys that, you know, block really well in this league can bend. And for me, that was one of the things coming out. Obviously, I was a high, like high cut guy, long legs. But I was flexible and I can bend and I was a willing blocker.

So as far as where I am today in my career, it's just been a steady progression of just getting better at the basics while still keeping my flexibility and being able to bend and then most of all just my toughness. When I watch the film, I'm looking at how tough you are as a person

when everything is not going good and when you're down, are you still doing your thing? Are you still blocking and doing the little things? Because when you're playing tight-in, it's not just about catching touchdowns. It's so much that gets put on our plate that, you know, just the naked eye wouldn't even understand. And you have to have a certain mental fortitude to kind of battle through, you know,

those fault lines of, you know, trying to be the best you can every day. It's tight-in position. So those guys that you name all have that similar thread about them. And, you know, that's, you know, why they are where they are now. You know, I love asking this question. So occasionally you have to get a lined up across from a mile. Garrett or a Jared verse and because of the situation in the set you're like oh brother if I told you there's one player that you've played against in 19 years that you wish you didn't have to play

against if there was one guy when you're sitting in that hotel the night before a game you're like oh crap this is I'm just I got to get ready for an ice bath who is the single toughest guy when he shifts over that you have to block you'd never show him you'd never let us you never let him see it but you were like not a good time I'll say this. So I'll give you a couple. One, I'll say probably Julius Peppers or Javon Curse, right? That was earlier on in my career where those dudes are monsters, right? And like, that's who I kind of like looked up to when I was in college. And when I had the opportunity to play against them, you know, I learned a lot of lessons and it kind of made me better as a player. But those guys were just animals on the edge. And it kind of helped me build my, you know, I learned a lot of lessons. And it kind of helped me build my gristle for who I am today and you know being able to go against all these freaks at this point in my career and I would say right now it literally would have to be Miles Garrett Max Crosby I think I think those two are just dynamic and what they do both both different but the same and how they get after as far as their motor and then having a plant right and those two have really good counters to whatever their favorite moves are. So you just always gotta be on your toes

because they're just different. They're different. Like those guys jump off the screen and you know what type of game is gonna be when you play against those guys. And the last time we talked about it, I kind of alluded to the night before the game, like if I'm playing against either of those guys

or guys that like, my whole body feels different. Like my mentality, it kind of shifts in a way, but my body feels different because I know that I'm going to be in a dogfight. And, you know, at the end of the day, it makes this game what it is. Like, I'm grateful to have those moments and kind of be in position to kind of feel what it feels like to compete at the highest level. And those guys being the best out of me. One more question for Mercedes-Lewis. Can you tell, how long does it take you as a guy who has been in this league 19 years?

if you go to a camp, go to your last six or seven years. Do you know instantly how many practices does it take for you to go, oh, crap, that kid's not going to work here? Or, holy, that guy is, like Jared Verse, literally game two, you're like, yeah, that's going to work. But how many practices do you need to see? And you're better at this because you're blocking them. Do you need to see, oh, that's not going to work? That kid's not going to work. it would take me three practices with four pads to know that like if I'm going to get somebody if it's obviously it'll probably very dependent on the position right but if I'm going against a guy who's either a linebacker or deepness of end is over me and I'm actually getting you know to feel that that interaction or that side of it I'm probably say about three practices with full pads if you if you're like a

a skill guy or quarterback, maybe it'd take a little longer. But as far as being in the trenches, probably like three practices, to know that, like, you're either going to be a dude or you're just going to be a guy. Yeah. Mercedes-Lewis, 19 years, still available. Man, I don't want to get nosy,

but that NFL pension, that's going to be slipped. Yeah, man, I don't, maybe when it's, I'll probably look at it when it's all set and done, but it should be sweet. You'll go to Craig's four nights a week and order chicken parm and not even worry about it, bro. Yeah, just work out, order good Italian food, and mind my business. Great seeing you. We'll talk soon, ma'amay. Likewise, brother. Thank you, man. All right. 19 years playing pro football. Oh, my God.

And didn't miss a game with bears last two years. Like some guys, like LeBron's like that. LeBron got, I mean, LeBron's obviously worked at it, but some guys, I mean, John Lynch at safety, I asked John Lynch led headfirst. I mean, he was one of the hardest hitting safeties. He and Chuck Cecil for over a decade. And I asked Lynch once. You ever have a concussion?

He's like, no, never had one. Like, what? How did you not? What? No, never had one. Like some guys just got the man upstairs, the entity upstairs, you know, touches them with something that very few players have. They just stay healthy in very physical environments. Grab it up next in Chicago.

It's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests. in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenschen went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs,

the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome back. I think one of the interesting stories, and this has been the case, and I think we're a long way from over. The WNBA, again, is in the news because the players went out this weekend and wore shirts, pay us what you owe us. So it's very easy to say this league has lost so much money over. the years. They don't deserve any money. But the truth is, as an investment, it only really

matters when the negotiation process takes place. And it's taking place now, and the WNBA finally is hot. Now, you could say it's only hot because of Caitlin Clark. But when Tiger Woods came on the tour, nobody else was driving the revenue that Tiger was. So what? If you were an advertiser, you wanted to be part of the PGA because everybody was watching Tiger. The truth is, whatever broadcast network has, the WNBA games, they put Caitlin Clark on all the time. And Angel Reese is getting a brand, not to that point, but I mean, the point is right now it's negotiation time and it projects for 10 years to be very positive and they're hot right now. So like, you have to pay them. Now, what are you going to pay them? The NBA players make 50%

of revenue. But the NBA players drive shoe sales. They drive all sorts of apparel. They drive social media. A handful can drive television ratings. They drive attendance. WNBA players, Caitlin Clark, is sort of a one of one. But they're still value there. I don't think they'll get 50% of revenues. Could they get 30% of revenues? But the idea that like they, well, they've always lost money. Again, think of it like you have an investment. And all of a sudden, I was talking about earlier in my little podcast company, if I had a podcast for four years that lost money for four years and there was five months left on the contract

and it suddenly got hot. Well, I'd probably re-sign them. If they made me a bunch of money for the first three years and in the last year of the contract, they hemorrhage money. I probably wouldn't sign them. It's all about momentum. WNBA has it.

When are we negotiating? Well, the WNBA is negotiating. as merchandise sales are going up, attendance is going up, and ratings are going up. Even if it's only driven by one or two players, it's still working. Attendance through the league is up. I would think about extending

the season 10 games. My take on what to do with Caitlin Clark, lighten up on the officiating, call more fouls, keep her healthy. Secondly, I'd add 10 more games to the schedule. More revenues as the merchandise goes up

and again, the play then say, okay, we'll pay a 30%, but we want 10 more games or eight more games. Because right now the WMBA schedule is, it's like a college schedule, there's not that many games. But the idea that, well, they've lost a bunch of money. All sorts of companies sell at a premium having lost money. The example I used earlier was The Athletic. It was hemorrhaging $45 million a year. The New York Times still bought it.

It still doesn't make a profit. It adds scale and subscriptions to the New York Times. that's very interesting. A lot of these companies that get purchased are not making an annual profit. The bottom line is the WNBA merchandise, ticket sales, ratings up, and they've got a star that drives a number. I want to be in that business for the next 10 years. The problem, Colin, and I was reading about this last night, is some of the teams are profitable. And I can guarantee you the Indiana fever are going to be profitable to say. Yes.

But do you all of a sudden want a blanket statement that, you know, they players go up from 9%? percent generating revenue to all of a sudden everybody gets 33 percent well if i'm one of these bad teams where i'm losing money and all of a sudden i've got to pay my players way more i don't know that we can do that blanket thing because yeah well you know what you know what then sell your franchise because i can assure you there are billionaires and 500 millionaires around the country that would buy these franchises for 250 million dollars you just lost money on the uh i don't know pick a team here, you know, Atlanta Dream. You've been losing money on them for years.

And now all of a sudden you've got to pay everybody way more money. Why would I, why would I sell? You're going to force me to sell now as the league's ascending? Well, you just said you don't want to pay money. The bottom line, when you buy a pro sports team, your parking income. That's all you're doing. The bottom line, if you lose at an annual basis, but you buy it for $250 million, what you're predicting, it'll be worth $375 million in four years.

If you go back and look what WMBA franchises were seven years ago and today, they've gone up like 10 times. The MLS, I've tried to buy into the MLS twice. I didn't have the money. When I wanted to buy in, it was $35 million. They were then, three years later, worth $85 million. I tried to buy in small number at $85 million. They're now worth $270 million. The bottom line is you're buying into it.

It's not the people that can afford that own these teams. They've got 38 businesses. Mark Cuban owns 70 businesses, not, when he owned just the Mavericks, you have an operating loss in some of your business. So, Colin, the problem with that is the league is so dependent on Caitlin Clark now. If Caitlin Clark decides I've had enough of basketball, I'm retiring. That's not happening. She walks away.

Tell me where the WNBA growth is. Is it still going through the roof? Paige Becker's is a really nice player. She ain't moving the needle like Caitlin. Tell me a bunch of pro athletes who at 24, 25 said, no, I'm just tired of my sport. I don't want to say injury. Fine. She's out for the year.

Boom, the league's earning. Again, the league is very reliant upon her. Why can't we do the baseball model where we institute some kind of salary floor around the league? Like, hey, owners have to spend X amount. That's what baseball fans want. I just don't like all of a sudden, hey, the league is growing. Everybody has to get paid. No, no, we're just going to pay those that are profitable.

By the way, those guys get paid. When Michael Jordan retired, the league lost 50% of its ratings. They were very reliant on MJ. Very. Yeah, they just signed a $76 billion $11 year contract. 30 years later, come on. Well, no, I mean, after that was Kobe and Shaq. You know, there were a lot of great financial stories.

We've had the Spurs, you know, legendary dynasty. We had the Kobe and Shaq Dynasty. We had the Warriors dynasty. We had the Heedles. The safest place you can park money in the world is in pro sports franchises. The Yankees are going to be around in 100 years. You don't know if Google is. You don't know if Apple is.

People used to think Apple was untouchable. Steve Jobs left. It tanked. I mean, Phil Knight stepped out of Nike for a couple years. Nike tanked. Then he came back and rebounded. These big companies, you don't know what they're going to be in 15 years. Bad management.

Starbucks has been all over the map the last three years based on who they hire as CEO. That's interesting. You said you tried to buy into MLS. I bought into a Liga MX team in Mexico. By the way, another team right now is on the market for 400 million. I won't even tell you what we bought in at, but it's significantly lower. So if you were given the opportunity right now, would you buy into a WNBAT? Absolutely.

In one second. All right. I'll play middleman and see what I can do for you, big guy. I know some people. But I'd like to see you put your money where you're mad. I mean, like, honestly, if the, nobody's offering. Seattle Storm, if they were looking for an investor at a certain evaluation, you would invest in the WM. Absolutely.

Now, that's interesting. Oh. Yeah. Two years ago, I was interested in the MLS again for the third time. I mean, listen, soccer is going to get massive over the next 18 months with the World Cup coming up in this country. That is 100% coming. I just, I do think there is upside in the WNBA. This rapid expansion has me a little concerned.

Are the rosters deep enough? There's just not that many great players in the league, Colin. Are there enough to justify like two four teams? They said their word, are they going? Cleveland now is one of the expansion teams? Well, every league is overbuilt. You could cut six hockey teams. If the St. Louis Blues left tomorrow, how's the league?

You could cut four to five NFL teams and NBA teams. Look at Major League Baseball. The bottom six teams payroll can't compete. If the pirates left tomorrow, I love the pirates as a kid. If they left tomorrow, the sport would be buying. But those are all leagues with like 30 teams. WNBA has like 15 teams, 16 teams. Yeah. I think they'll get, I think they should get to 20 very quickly, and I think they will.

All I'm saying is if I had a, if somebody just said, here's $2 million, I go tonight, and I scratch off ticket, and I have $2 million. After taxes, I keep 1.25, I'd put it in the WNBA tomorrow. Really? You would just put it in a low-cost ETF and just watch the money roll in? Boring. I know, you're an exciting guy with it. I want to own a team and go courtside and be like, hello another cocktail for uncle Colin. I want free fun. Coward, the coastal elite now owning sports teams.

What a life. What are you having for dinner tonight? Lobster? I'm just telling you. The only way you can get a good value on anything you buy is not when it's the hottest thing in the world. So as there's all this, oh, the WNBA's not worth it. I think the smart people are like, yeah, I'll invest.

I'll invest now. I would invest. I'd have no problem. I'd like to really invest in the Indiana fever. I admit that. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care. you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy,

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Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind,

and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear.

Listen to SportsSlics on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know.

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