The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - More on Caitlin Clark

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Ric Bucher stops by The Herd to talk about Caitlin Clark's impact on the WNBA, LeBron James' comments on "ring culture", the NBA Finals and more  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Well, we all watched the finals. We're watching Caitlin Clark, LeBron James comments, which I feel like is a little projection, little strawman argument on rings. Rick Buecker now joins us live. Let's start with Caitlin Clark.

And I've said the advantage to being in any business for a long time is you're rarely shocked, you're occasionally surprised, but you've seen everything three times. And so I can remember the Michael Jordan, Steph Curry early years when these flashy transformative players

came in, and I remember this with Hackashack, you're not quite sure how to officiate them, how to defend them, and when they score, they can humiliate you. Yeah. Carl Malone could score on you. He didn't humiliate you. Shack dunking on you.

Sean Kemp. Caitlin Clark, 33-footers. And I think the league's trying to kind of figure out a lot. So my take is this is part of the process. It starts with physicality, trapping, technicals, an ejection. They went and got Sophie Cunningham, who can be the Charles Oakley and protector. I think it's part of the process. I think people are overreacting.

What say you? Yeah, I do believe that part of it is her ability to embarrass opponents. But I also believe a big part of it is that she is going to. to talk trash and she walks like, I'm going to embarrass you. And that contributes to the reaction. And that's the part that I, the problem that I have is that she's being portrayed by way too many people is this sweet, sweet Caitlin Clark from Iowa, and she's being beaten up by these big bad WNBA players who resent her. Look, she's a bit of a flopper. She's certainly a trash talker.

And the biggest issue I have is she'll do the pushing back and forth and she'll talk trash. And then she walks away as if nothing is happening. And then she gets bumped and she goes down. Look, if you're going to talk trash, if you're going to push people, if you're going to get in their face, then stand up and chances are you're not going to fall over when you get pushed. So I feel like she contributes to this. And there's a lot of people out there that are feeding into it like she's being treated. in this malicious way. The reality is she brings it on,

she gives as good as she gets. But I do think that a big part of it is because you got, first of all, you have competitive women out there who were here before she was, and she's walking in, like, I'm all that, and they're going to push back on that. And then having a college hooper daughter,

who's pretty good, she's told me about the back and forth that goes on. Women are going to go back and forth. I think we're not really accustomed to seeing it and seeing them compete in the nasty way that they can. It doesn't fit our profile of women. And yet when you put them on a basketball court or on a field of play, they are very much like men, if not more so. You know, Rick, I said this too, and I had noticed this. I wasn't a big WNBA fan.

It's not a vertical league. Nobody jumps over anybody to score. It's a horizontal league. It's actually been a chippy league for 15 years. I know people that watch the WNBA, and I asked them last year, they're like, this league has been dirty and chippy. And by the, I'm not knocking them, but they don't jump over you to score. They put a shoulder down.

I think that's part of it. No, there is a physicality to the women's game. inherent physicality and you're right part of it is because it is a it's not a vertical league it's not a vertical competition so there's that but look i i went to the seattle valkyries game uh over the weekend and uh and there was just as much chippiness there so anybody who thinks this is a kately clark phenomenon no it is a wnba phenomenon and if you don't watch it on a regular basis then the physicality and the way that they play and the contact is going to shock you. So I think I've mostly been a LeBron fan.

But I said today when he talked on his podcast with Steve Nash, and it was a bit of a straw man argument where he said, you know, the idea this whole ring culture thing that, am I supposed to believe that Alan Iverson is not great, or Charles Barkley isn't great? My take is everybody knows they're great. Nobody's ever said they're not great. But the difference between MJ and Berkeley is the real.

rings, the difference between Marino and Brady isn't talent. It's the rings. And my take is LeBron now is not in the bubble, the NBA ring bubble. He's not going to win that. He knows it. And now he's trying to kind of marginalize rings. What did you do the first 15 years of your career? Yeah. Look, there is an argument to be made that the ring culture has gone too far as far as how we judge NBA players. There's no doubt about that. There's too much conversation about that. And we should have some discussion about it. LeBron James just isn't the one to lead that conversation, because he literally changed teams three times chasing rings. He saw what the Miami Heat were. He decided, you know what, I want to go back to Cleveland and get one. He utilized all their

resources. He got one there. He said, let me go to L.A. Let me finish up there. I'm going to get one more. So there's no question that this, what I believe is driving this conversation now is that LeBron knows that he's essentially done. He's not going to add any more accolades to his accomplishments, and he's still, and he realizes he's short of winning the goat conversation. So let me try to change the narrative or the measuring stick in order to see if I can convince people that I actually am the greatest of all time in spite of the fact that I only won four out of 10 trips to the finals. So, you know, the difference between really good players and great players is often consistency.

Now, you could say that Halliburton, no points in game five, just an all-time stinker, a star can't do that. And it's probably Chris Bosch had a finals game like that. My take is Halliburton's probably closer to Bosch than LeBron, right? He's a really special player. think the NBA going forward is going to be point guard driven because you can't have stack rosters and you need players who can elevate others. SGA can do that, Brunson's, Halliburton. My take is, did we get too hot on Halliburton? Did we get too infatuated,

myself included with Halliburton, and he's a good player, he's not a great player. Yeah, the tricky part with Halliburton is that he made a number of game winning shots, miraculous game winning shots, and yet I think at his heart that's not who he is. He's a facilitator and he's a distributor. And he's capable of making those shots and those are superstar moments. But I'm not going to judge him strictly on his points. I'm going to judge him on how much flow the Indiana Pacers offense has because their secret sauce has been they have multiple guys who can score

and Halliburton has been at the heart of that, getting you big shots, making big shots when he needs to. but for the most part, it's his dribble penetration, getting into the paint, and either shooting from there, or as a result of the defense collapsing, getting easy looks for everybody else. And my great issue with him in game four and particularly game five is that he didn't have that same aggression. And we've seen that lack of aggression at various times, and it is just crucial to the Indiana Pacers being all that they can be. So I said that he's not a superstar, that he's a superstar in the making. And I still, at 25 years old, I don't want to close the door on his potential of growing into that.

But superstars for me, you never question whether they're going, some of they may not get it done, but you never question whether they are going to try to get it done. There's just been too many instances, injury aside, throughout these playoffs where every now and then you have a halibund. Burton game where you think, where is he? What's he doing? Why is he playing so passively? I've just never known the superstars as I define them where you ever question that. They may not get it done. Derek Rose didn't always get it done. He was stymied by the Miami Heat when they met in the Eastern Conference finals, but I never got the sense that Derek Rose wasn't trying to get it done. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-heartedly. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories,

their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world. right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving well good luck

consider this your court side seat to the French Open listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the iHeart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts presented by capital one founding partner of iHeart women's sports okay so I'm a KD fan I don't always love his choices but I'm a fan only two guys in the NBA scored 25 points a game and shot 40% from threes Yokich and KD. Yet he doesn't appear to have a big market. Now, he wants a new contract, but he's not getting a max. He may get two years, 100 million, whatever. He is still the number one rated jump shooter in the league, according to the analytics. And he's 26 a night. Where's the market? He's a good guy. He's not a disrupt. I mean, that Brooklyn thing was a mess. He wasn't.

Phoenix was a mess. He wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Where's his mind? I don't get it. Yeah, first of all, the New York situation is a result of, I believe, the reason they don't have any interest is because Jim Dolan is one of the most vindictive owners that there are in sports. And back in 2019, Kevin Durant not only spurned the Knicks, but he spurned them for the Brooklyn Nets, the team next door. And that's stuck in Jim Dolan's cross. So the fact that they're not interested in getting him, I believe, is driven first and foremost by the owner and the history. Also, Rich Climman, KD's guy was looking to be the team president of the Knicks at one point, and I'm sure Leon Rose doesn't want that competition. So that's the New York Knicks.

But by and large, at 37 years old, this is a little bit like the Jimmy Butler situation. It's not so much the teams don't want KD and couldn't use KD as much as what are we going to have to give up for him, and are we going to have to extend him? And if we're going to extend him, how much? And the teams that could really use him are these young teams that have a lot of pieces. And as we saw with OKC, look, a year ago, they didn't get out of the second round. A lot of people were like, should they go back? Should they go get KD?

Should they go get a superstar, established superstar as the final piece? And they decided, you know what? No, we're going to let our young guys grow and develop. and that makes more sense than giving up a bunch of our young guys to go have a short-term rental. That's essentially what KD is at this point. And I think the reason that you're not seeing a more robust market for him is because teams are looking at it and saying, I don't know that within a year for what we might have to give up, that KD really moves the needle at this point in spite of his individual numbers. And the Phoenix situation, to your point, like, he went in there, didn't move the needle.

You got Devin Booker and you got Bradley Beal. You had enough pieces around him where you thought that KD, if he's still capable of elevating a team, that at the very least, at the very least, he was going to get them into the postseason, and he was unable to do that. Rick Bueger, is always. Bukes, great seeing you, man. Appreciate you stopping by. You got it.

Yeah. I'm a Durant fan. So I like buckets. I like easy buckets. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

All right, Colin, we got Lamar Jackson talking to the media. Listen, it was a tough loss back in January to the bills. Obviously, Lamar didn't play great, two turnovers, but it was Mark Andrews who dropped the potential game-time two-point conversion. Speaking for the first time since that playoff loss, Lamar Jackson talks about seeking revenge. I don't think I get over any loss, to be honest. I got losses from youth football that still hunting me, you know?

So I never get over loss. I don't care how small it may be to someone else or how great it might be. It's always the same for me. It's football, everything not going to go out away, man. You know, before it was like, oh, you can't win a playoff game. No, we won a playoff game. We got to the L.C. championship two years ago, and we just fell short, like two games short this year.

But we're going to bounce back, you know. When we come back, I feel like we're going to have vinters on our mind. He's going to get one, Jay Mack, so is Josh Allen. Going to get one what? Big trophy. Joe Flacco got a trophy. Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. Different era.

I mean, you think Lamar's breaking through, Colin? Yep, absolutely. When? Can you give me like a timetable on that? Next two years. Wow. Bold takes here on a Wednesday, Colin. Let's move on to the NBA.

Oh, geez. Doc Rivers. probably the biggest choke artist from the coaching spot in NBA history. Sorry, it's just the facts. You know, he's talking about this Yannis situation. Will Yannis request a trade? Blah, blah, blah. Well, Doc Rivers called out the bogus rumors around his superstar in Milwaukee.

No, I don't know how many more times Janus has to say he wants to be a buck, and he wants to win a title with a buck. And it's so cool to me, you know, because, It's not the way it's done anymore. But with certain guys, you know, I don't think Steph Curry would ever leave Golden State, ever. And I'm hoping, obviously, Yadis is the same way. That's the way he's been so far, and it's been great. It's been awesome.

All right. That's fine, but I don't know how you rebuild this roster. All I know is I'm looking around the lead at what Orlando just did. Orlando is now four elite players. Indiana four elite players is the young kid Ben Benedict

Matherd Matherin he's going to be I think by next year a really really special player Indies got four New York's not going anywhere Boston eventually will be good again so I mean they'll be good

they'll be great again I just think if you look at Milwaukee okay you got you got the $10,000 chandelier what's the rest of the house like you got to give me something besides the sports car in the front yard. What's the house like? Here's the problem, Colin. So we're seeing in these NBA playoffs, youth and depth are driving forces. Indiana, Minnesota, obviously OKC. Do you know when you look at Milwaukee's roster

how many guys they have over 30 who are in the rotation? They're an old, broken team. I'm sorry to say it. But with Dame Lillard and the Achilles out for next season, I mean, are they bringing back Lopez, who is now like in his mid-30s? I just, I don't see a path to anything. There is not. People are saying, oh, Janus is a nice guy. He won't ask for a trade.

All right, well, Janus will stay irrelevant for the next five years in Milwaukee. Yeah. They got a championship like Denver. If Yokic won, if Yokic, I mean, right now for Yokic, you'd get four first round picks, an All-Star and two reserves.

Now, you're not trading Yokch, but Yonis is going to get somewhere in that ballpark. Yonkich is better than Yonis. Better pass or better shooter. And younger. Yeah, so, and not the injury. So Yokic is better than Yonis. But Janus is going to get you four first rounds.

And like I've said, Houston would have to give me Shen Goon four first round picks and two other guys that are either number five starters or like first guy off the bench. So here's the thing. It doesn't take that long to turn the Titanic around. Look at OKC, Colin. That's right. Within three years, they got their act together. You just got to make the right moves.

Trading Janice is the first right move. Bottom out, you'll have a top five picnics here. Let's wrap up with baseball, Colin. How about this one? My Yankees lost their season high fifth straight last night, four nothing to the Angels. Worst part is it with their third straight game getting shut out. They have a scoreless streak of 29 innings.

Wow. At the end of last night's game, Yankees broadcaster Michael Kay kind of went off. Listen to him. And here's the pal. Swing and a minute. and that will do it. As the Yankees get shut out for the third straight time, only the seventh time in the franchise's history,

which started in 1903, that they've been shut out in three consecutive games, 29 straight scoreless innings. And when you see a lot of with this sort of talent base, it's almost incomprehensible that they have been shut down to this extent. Well, did they fire their hitting coach? Colin, I don't, listen, I don't want to go, overboard. What is this like, honestly, are we freaking out about three games out of 162?

What is that, the equivalent of like a bad half for Patrick LaHolmes? Well, and you have the best hitter in the lineup in that lineup, and that means the guys before and after him are getting good pitches. It's kind of not acceptable. It just feels, what, three games? You can't have a bad three game stretch? Listen, I'll be honest, Aaron Judge a couple weeks ago was flirting with 400. He's on a, two for 20 streak, so that's out the window. But like, come on, man. Everybody, I felt, listen, you have a clunker every now and then. Let's be real. Okay? Yeah. Well, I don't, but I understand your metaphor. I would say this. Um, because they're paying Aaron, Judge, and John Carlos

Stanton and Garrett Cole so much money, so John Carlos Stanton's hurt, Garrett Coles hurt. So two of their big contracts aren't playing. Well, what's the problem? The roster is uneven. I noticed it in the World Series last year is that when you watched them against the Dodgers, they had holes defensively. They had holes in their roster. They really were only viable in the game's Garrett Cole pitch. So it's like we always talk about the Dallas Cowboys are top heavy.

I mean, Garrett Cole, Aaron Judge, John Carlos Stanton are making a fortune, and they're not as aggressive upstairs as they were in the George Steinbrenner here. So my takeaway is this team was out of World's Dayburn. Series contention when Garrett Cole got hurt. They're too top-heavy. It'd be like Seedy Lamb getting hurt. Hold on. They're out of that. I don't care what their record is.

This is not a World Series winning team. Really? Look at the Padres. Cubs, Tigers. You don't think the Yankees can get to the World Series? Not without Garrett Cole. No. I think there's holes in their lineup.

My bet, Stanton just came back. So he is now back. He was gone for a long time. So, I mean, I just, I look at the Yankees and it's a bit if you, and I'm not somebody that sits and watch the Yankees every night but this team feels like there's holes in the roster. Do they manufacture runs?

Ask, I don't know. Do they... Colin, hold up. Time out, timeout. They have the second best record in the American League. They have the highest run differential in the American League by 16 runs. Like, I think we're overreacting.

The National League. The National League is better than the American. Yeah, it is, but I don't care about the National League. I just got to get to the World Series. then let's see what happens. But like the idea that the tigers are that much better than the Yankees. Like, come on. You think the Yankees are afraid of that?

But I guess my take is this, is that the minute Garrett Cole got hurt, it's not a World Series team. It's not a World Series team. It can be a good team. It can win a division. It's not a World Series team. And if you watch them against the better rosters in baseball, there's holes in it. So my question is around, now Stanton, John, you. just started playing, right?

Hasn't played. So now around Judge, before Stanton came back, what is there? And now Stanton's back, so he'll, you know, take him a while to get back in, he hadn't played in a long time. So I just don't know if this is the kind of roster that if Aaron Judge, and he's on a slump, so if Aaron Judge is in a slump, he said he was 2 for 20, how are they scoring runs?

How are they manufacturing runs? All my Yankee fans on the East Coast, listen to this, are going to clip it off, and when they're headed to the World Series in October, they're going to just tag you left and right and be like, coward, don't count the Yankees out. I mean, it's true. I would say this.

They're very Aaron Judge on a heater dependent. The minute Garrett Cole is out, they are very, by the way, the Dodgers are not Mookie Betts dependent or Freddie Freeman dependent. O'Tonnie's great, but if he goes, you know, he draws the collar and doesn't get a hit, they win games. They got Max Muncie. And I feel the same way with the Padres. The Padres are a good team.

Didn't last year they lost one of their best pitchers late? They were still a great team. So I remember this Yankee team last year had Soto. So they lost Garrett Cole to start the season. John Carlos Stanton was gone until two games ago. They don't have Soto. It's not the same team. It's not the same, you know, they can't manufacture runs.

when Aaron Judge is not hitting. He is the heart beat of that offense. That's my take from thousands of miles away. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. All right, wrap it up next, The Herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. we created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed the game. Morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, We break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down. on everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay.

Jen she won. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the Eyeheart. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. J. Mac, Sophie Cunningham's jersey for the Indiana Fever, according to Fanatics, is officially sold out. The defender, the enforcer on the Indiana fever, who's a very attractive lady, but is also the team's enforcer. she did the tackling at the end of the game last night she's got quite an iG quite a profile yes she does

she is very popular among young men who follow the wnbaa yeah fanatics navy explorer edition fast break replica jersey out of stock wow nobody knows she was like six months ago look at look at that's a little ufc feel to it's like a male and the fans reacting to it by the way the fans if she had grabbed you like that by the head You're coming up swinging. I thought that was out of pocket. I get the defending, Caitlin, but that angle where she's just, that's not a basketball play. Come on.

Well, she got, you know, she ended up leaving the floor there. So she, I, it really is gripping. It's really good television. It is. I'll say this. You and I have talked about this. We are loyal to interesting. Obviously, the NFL is a sport we talk about probably 65% of the show, 70% of the show.

But even in the NFL, we don't talk a lot of, one o'clock window teams. We don't do Carolina. We don't do a lot of Atlanta. We don't do a lot of Houston, although they've gotten better. We tend to talk about the biggest brands in the NFL. By week six, I'm down to about 12 teams that we talk about. Max.

Same with college football. Mid-October, you're talking about a handful of teams. There are not a lot of stories right now. In American sports, there are not a lot of stories more interesting than Caitlin Clark. You start naming them. I mean, if Rory McElroy, who's going through kind of a weird cycle of anti-media and dysfunction, if he was, if he won the U.S. Open after winning the Masters, okay, that would be big. She is the biggest story right now in sports.

If I would have told you five years ago, you're not going to believe this, but the WNBA is going to trump the NBA finals. And be like, what happened? Was there a moment? No, like all the time. You talk about it all the time. I mean, we've got stuff happening. Polic, stiff arms, the United States men's national team, the NBA finals.

We've got stuff happening. Aaron Rogers to the Steelers. This is more interesting. We just had a U.S. Open. We didn't talk about it. No juice. This league right now, and I shouldn't say this league. Caitlin Clark and how the league officials down are.

processing her and responding to her is absolutely fascinating. And you can't argue about certain things. The late John Madden used to talk about this all the time when he worked at Fox. Some games just sound big. The Connecticut Sun and the Indiana fever does not sound big. So the fact that it dominated half our show today, it just tells you how significant and transformative Caitlin Clark is. And I thought Rick Buker said, hey, she's not a victim all the time on this stuff.

She's bringing a little heat on herself. The biggest issue I have is she'll do the pushing back and forth and she'll talk trash. And then she walks away as if nothing is happening. And then she gets bumped and she goes down. Look, if you're going to talk trash, if you're going to push people, if you're going to get in their face, then stand up and chances are you're not going to fall over when you get pushed. So I feel like she contributes to this. The reality is she brings it on.

She gives as good as she gets. Yeah, I mean, there's some truth. I think if you look at the players that get tackled and get, if not hazed, get a level of physicality for their game, it tends to be players who have a certain aesthetic. Michael Jordan could humiliate you, not just score on you. Kobe Bryant got some stuff. Steph Curry, Caitlin Clark.

There's been a lot of great players in the NBA, but they score their points undramatically. I mean, Aunt Edwards is the kind of guy that can be really dramatic. You know, I just think her stylistically, some of it, the tongue out, the 33-footers, and she's now starting to demand the ball. so she's getting more performative on the court, which I think is great. But I never thought of her as drawing attention.

I thought she was kind of awkward. But her interviews now, she got a little more, just a little more in the last couple of weeks. And her style is when she came back, it's almost like she got injured. She was out five games. And it's almost like a buy week in the NFL. Like teams improved dramatically off the buy week. You know, they start scouting themselves. they're off the treadmill.

It's almost like she left for five games. She sort of watched the league, and she convinced herself, I'm not aggressive enough. Like, I'm not aggressive enough, because she came back, and she was hyper aggressive. And even the trash talking feels like it's gone up another level. So she had played 185 consecutive games

going back to her freshman year at Iowa. So she had been on the treadmill. She hadn't had a lot of time to sit back and watch her team. She was the star. She played the most minutes. She took the most shots. And she just got a couple of weeks off the treadmill to watch the league, watch the games. And she came back and she has got a little edge to her.

Do you remember, Colin, when LeBron was, took like a little sabbatical that one January? I think he was in Cleveland. And he vanished to Miami for like eight or nine days. Classic. I need a little breather. Kate LaCard gets a breather comes back and is breathing fire. And the players are responded and they did last night. We'll see you tomorrow.

It's the hurt. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

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