The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - No more dynasties

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

There have been 7 different teams who have won the NBA title over the last 7 years. Which means it is now harder to have a dynasty in the NBASee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. My mic was not. Alexie Lawless. Hall of Famer, Fox, sports, soccer analyst. A man I lean on often agree and disagree with. I don't view you as controversial, but the soccer people get very feisty with you.

Yeah, I don't view me as controversial either. As a matter of fact, we were just talking about being a man of the people. You claim to be one. I have been for many, many years. Can I derail this just for one second? What's your name over there? Mark. Martin?

Martin? Yes, yeah, Martin. Martin. Mark, I came on air today, and we were backstage, and he was talking to me. It was the kindest thing that's happened to me in a long time. He was explaining that doesn't know anything about soccer, has not watched soccer. To be quite honest, isn't necessarily interested in soccer. But he was saying that oftentimes when he sees me talking about soccer,

he sees that I have a passion for it and I'm excited about it, and it gets him excited about it. And that was just one of the nicest things that anybody said to me in a long time. So I really appreciate that. And if that's happening, great. And we say in television, as you know, if you're not excited about it, why should the viewer be excited about it? Well, and I'm ridden with anxiety. So I said at the last World Cup, we hold England scoreless.

Netherlands is an elite club. We're not there. But it was a good test point for us. Here's a veteran strong, physically aggressive team. We're not there. We need four years. We had all these on-ball, midfield, Pulisic, Weston McKinney, so hopeful. Then

Burrhalter, who I liked, maybe didn't love, gets booted, Maricio Pucetito, who has a history of Tottenham Hotspur of young, playing young players. And my take is, okay, I don't need to see the second unit. So we go into this friendly nose dive,

and Pulisic doesn't play, and it feels like the wheels are coming off, and yet, we have a plus seven point differential, we're the highest scoring team now, and my take is, is it just bad competition or do you feel better than you did two weeks ago when this team was in a four-game skid friendlies, albeit friendlies, but a four-game skid? So quick answer

is I feel better, and I think winning just does that. It's not a magic elixir, but it certainly helps you make you feel better. And we also understand that success is not linear, right? So back in the previous World Cup, when we were talking about this team, but we were also talking about how young they were. Yes. And so we extrapolated it out. I don't think in the summer of 2025, we would have envisioned that we would be here with this type of anger and concern and angst. And as I said before, last time I was on this show, an apathy. So what this team in this moment has started to do is kind of claw back some of that relevancy, some of that caring belief, if you will. It's not all there. Rob Stone and I were joking that when we started this tournament, a lot of people with

their arms folded, right? After the first round, like you said, undefeated, three wins sitting pretty, maybe hands are out in the pockets now. What is hopefully going to happen at the end of the tournament is people start to embrace this team and to clap. But to use, I guess, another sports analogy, in the baseball game, right, they take batting practice, right? And they throw the ball so you can hit and you can get a flow and you can get a feel and a rhythm and all that kind of stuff. So I think that's what this group stage was for this U.S. team. Not great competition. They did what they needed to do, but they got kind of a mojo back about winning.

Now we get into the elimination rounds. Costa Rica is a whole nother level. So in my life, it could be Tim Howard, it could be Brad Friedel, Casey Keller. We've been a hands country. We have good goalies. We've always had goalies. Sometimes it's been our best asset. Matt Freeze yesterday really.

a really bad moment. He froze. I don't think they trust Turner. I wouldn't trust Freeze after yesterday. This is a problem. So as we've gotten more skilled, now on the back end there are major concerns? Are there not? Evidently, as a soccer nation, we can't do two things at once. How did we screw up goalkeeping? I mean, that for so many years, like you mentioned, all of the greats when it comes to goalkeeping. And now we're at a point where we don't know who our goalkeeper is, and even the goalkeepers that we have are, eh, we're like, okay. And I think I've just accepted the fact that come next summer in the World Cup 2026,

we're going to have a goalkeeper, whether it's Matt Turner, whether it's freeze, whether it's somebody else out there, that we just kind of say, eh, but eh, isn't good enough. Well, Maricio Pochitino, the new coach, is very aggressive. He is not going to play, you know, for most of my life, certainly on the teams you played, losing once to a Brazilian team, won nothing that went on to win the World Cup is you are known for defense you were a great defender you were a physical team you had to be we have more offensive skill in that we have more midfield creativity and that allows us to be more aggressive so my take is can you maintain

that aggressiveness because that's pochitino style if you don't trust the goalkeeping yeah i mean goalkeepers are a necessary evil right you can't live with them you can't throw them off a bridge um but they will save your ass and in that moment you accept and recognize that for all their eccentricities and they are, you know, what crazy. Well, they also are kickers in the NFL. Exactly. So because in that moment, you need them to make this save. And from a U.S. perspective, traditionally, historically, we have had somebody back there that

when it breaks down, and it will break down, they come through. And that's important. And if we don't have that going forward, yeah, I think that's a problem. But it goes back to what you said about as we've tried to evolve, as we've tried to progress as a soccer, playing nation and how we play. We just got to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater because the traits and behaviors and characteristics and personality that have been established over the decades, there's some good stuff there.

I'm not saying we can't get better and I'm not saying we can't add, but some of that, you know, the physical play, the set pieces, you know, the, for lack of a better word, the spirit fight, all that kind of stuff. That still has to be maintained while still improving when it comes to the skill and the technique. So if you look how we've pivoted from anxiety and arms cross to now hands in our pockets over the course of 10 days, it leads me to believe that when a Tyler Adams or a McKinney or a Christian Pulicit come back, we'll have plenty of time to right the ship. So I want you to take us because this is the last major tournament before. Less tournament period and last competitive situation. So take me, I'm, you know me, I don't consider myself a casual.

I watch every time they're on television I watch, but a lot of our audience is. So my take is you can play friendlies. Pucatino could go to USA soccer and say, I want more travel. I want, what do you expect if we thrive or struggle going forward in this tournament? I need Pulisic, Weston McKinney, I need our top six players to play together consistently. Does the schedule permit it with their European access? Yeah, there's specific windows, but the reality is that we're only going to have

eight to ten more games before the World Cup kicks off, okay? And so, yeah, that's not a lot. I think best case scenario for Pochitino, and I think Pochitino has been biting his tongue. I think some of the things that he has seen, whether it's Christian Polisic or others out there, and I guess the old guard, which we know is still kind of still young,

but it's still the old guard, has made him think about some things. And you know this, and your viewers know this, when it comes to sports, any sport. It's not about the best players. It's about the best collection of players. And as he starts to think about it, I think some of his decisions are going to be made.

I think this person, while not necessarily as talented as this person, this person's going to run through a wall for me, and this person isn't going to cause me problems. And this person doesn't think that there, you know what, doesn't stink. and I think there will be some messages sent and I think there will be that will elicit some consternation out there because there undoubtedly is incredible quality

that is not with his team right now but ultimately for Pochitino he's being paid rumored $6 million a year to do well in the World Cup and whatever he feels is appropriate to do well in the World Cup whatever that group is that's what he is being paid to pick Is it possible that our young players

understand the Pulisic decision better than the staff does. And I've defended Pulisic because I have said for the first time in my life, we have multiple players flourishing abroad. And whereas I've seen us in basketball, if you look at Yokic, he plays in the Olympics and he plays in the NBA,

cash in country, LeBron, cash in country. The Fiba basketball tournament, they called Cam Johnson. Right? They'll call it Derek White. Is that our basketball stars have said, listen, man, we'll play for the country.

It's cash first. Well, A.C. Milan for Policix, the cash, and he'll be at the World Cup. And I'm saying this is a new frontier, is that our best players look at this tournament and think, I've got to make choices. This will no longer make the cut. Does that irritate you?

That irritates me. It irritates me because it lacks self-awareness or just general awareness of where we are right now. You know, I mentioned the angst and the apathy that has crept into this team. Now we are less than a year from the 2026 World Cup. I'm sitting in this chair because of the 1994 World Cup. We remember the 1999 Women's World Cup. These were seminal moments that didn't just change the way we think about soccer.

It ultimately changed soccer in our country. And 2026 can have that again. And so a part of me says, you're abdicating that responsibility, Christian politics. or anybody else because as people are kind of, eh, I don't only think about this team or I feel like they're not that good. A year before the World Cup, that's ridiculous. So anything that you could do, or I put myself, and I know I'm an old guy, so it's a different game, but I put myself in those shoes, why wouldn't I do anything in my power to do everything I could to make sure that this is as successful as possible, which includes energizing or re-energizing,

igniting or re-igniting the fan base out there that right now isn't showing a whole lot of excitement about what's going to happen next summer. Give me a player or two, and this is mostly our second, well, not mostly, it's our second tier group. But are there, give me two players watching them when they play Costa Rica that you think could make the World Cup team?

Oh, there's definitely some players that will make it. I even think a guy like Chris Richards, who is a young player who's a centerback. I think he's actually right now a starter. And I'll be the first to raise my hand. This probably happens in a lot of other sports. When players are young, you look at them and you're like, I don't get it. I don't see it. It doesn't quite move me.

And yet, after a few years, because he was, there was an aloofness to the way that he played and for lack of, for lack of a better word, seriousness to the way that he played. But he realized this is his job. and yet he'd never lost this incredible smile and joy. So I think he's going to be really, really important, and he has matured into a man on the field. Diego Luna is kind of a wild card, just bringing an incredible grit, young player.

And I think you just, you see him on the field, and you say, that's my guy, because he'll run through the wall for you. So those are a couple of players that I think you look at when this Costa Rica game comes up next Sunday. Wednesday next time, Pulisic will join the lads in a friendly. Well, if he is called in by Pochitino, because again, Potchitino, Mike, say, well, you didn't want to come in this summer? Maybe I'm going to go in a different direction. Not leaving him off, but again, who knows? Maybe he sends messages? I don't know. It's September. There is a window, and the U.S. will be playing games in September. Those will be friendly games. They're not, you know. Now, when is the A.C. Milan season start? So that starts in the end of August. So, you know, the European season starts. But those windows, they're not playing in Italy at that time.

All the Italian players that he plays on it with A.C. Milan will then go to their respective clubs in that window to prepare for the World Cup. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hi, this is Jay. I'm the producer of the Pauli and Tony Fusco show. Usually in these promos, they ask you to listen to the show. I'm here to ask you, please don't listen to this show. The host are two absolute morons who have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to this show so it can get canceled. Whoa, whoa, what the hell are you doing in our studio? Get him, Paulie!

Ignore that fool. Listen to the Pauline Tony Fusco show on the IHart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. He's still moving. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. Starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Head, writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen can win.

I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So finally, what, you know, Pocetino, we always blame the coach. We always blame the manager here in the States. We always do. Is there something that you either like or are concerned about with our new guy?

Is there something that if I said, you know, Well, actually, I got a minute here. I'm a jumping on a train. Where are you on the new guy? So what I'm concerned about is this is a coach who's never coached internationally. And coaching club is day in and day out coaching. Coaching internationally is you've got three days here, three days here. And it's just, it's a very different type of proposition. So my concern would be that he didn't do his due diligence in what he has to work with. And therefore, what the realistic expectations are. And now the reality is coming into focus for him. And he might have had the best laid plans.

And now he has to pivot. That's a concern, but I'm okay in that I hope he gets through that and gets to the other side. If he is going through that, maybe he's got it all planned out. And this has all been part of the master plan. And he sees, you know, all the way around the corner, which is the next summer. What I like about him is that I don't think he suffers fools. And I don't think he cares how much money you make, how famous you are, what has been said about you. He will choose what he thinks on the field is going to enable him to win.

And if you're not on board, I don't think that he is going to have you on board. Yeah, we're not the same team without Pulisic. No, no. And the Pulisic, it's okay that we had this moment and this controversy. He's going to be there. Nobody's ever questioned his ability and his talent when he gets on the field. And so if he needed a rest, fine. I can disagree and it can rub me the wrong way.

But ultimately, take this rest. But now the onus is on Christian Polisic when he comes back, because there's no more excuses. And I would expect to see the best version of Christian Polisic. Because we acquiesced. He got what he wanted. Fine. It's not a power play, but he got what he wanted.

Sure. All right. Now bring it back and give us the best version. Arrested Christian Policic, who has another good season with A.C. Milan and then comes all guns blazing next summer for the greatest country in the world. It's great to see you. It's great to see you. I mean, I told you, I walked in here. I got one of the greatest compliments I've ever gotten. And Martin doesn't hand him out much.

He can be irascible and difficult. I mean, the fact that he was just so easy going. John Middlough, thanks, buddy, with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Okay, Colin. Terry McLoren. skipped mandatory minicamp as he looks for a new contract from the commanders. McCloren is entering the final year of his current deal coming off a career high, 13 touchdowns. According to Albert Breer, McLaren is looking for something in the $30 million per year range,

adding that he thinks eventually the two sides will agree to a deal. Well, you can do it for about three years with Jaden, and I also think McLaren has, I think, fairly been probably underpaid for a bit of his career. There's a, you know, sometime you know this is a scout. It's a position that creates personality, and it can be an inflamed position. McClorn is a grinder. He is a wake up, put on the gear, deliver. That's one of those guys.

I don't love, I think there's a bit of a wide receiver bubble economically in the league, but I really like him. I think there are some parallels, you know, production-wise in this offense, he's never going to be a hundred 20 catch a year guy. like Jamar Chase. But the going rate for these guys is $31, $32, $33 million. We saw Brandon Ayuk last year, 75 catch a year guy. They regretted that immediately. Now, I feel like McLaren's one of the heartbeats of this team. Oh, I do too. Hasn't missed a game in years. Total tough guy. Adam Peters, long time. John Lynch, you know, right-hand man, has seen these holdouts up close and personal.

Debo years ago, Trent Williams, Nick Bosa. He has an understanding, like, they got a lot of good vibes coming into this year. That's right. Jeremy Tunzel on their team. He wants a lot of money to. You know, Debo Samuel contract here. So this is, there's a lot going on here. But they got a veteran coach. They got a GM that's, while he's a younger guy, he's been around the block. A lot of pressure on this team to, you know, it's easy when you get to sneak up on everybody. They're not sneaking up on a soul this year. Yeah. And I do think, um, I like the Debo acquisition. I think, listen, when you're, sometimes you draft a quarterback like J.J. McCarthy and it's bad luck, they get hurt. Or it's

panics and they're not quite ready or how it's viewed. When you get a guy as good as Jaden and like over delivers, and I don't know if I remember a rookie quarterback being that good, including Andrew Locke, you almost owe it to him to go big on offense. Draft your defense, keep it cheap and twitchy. Do kind of what the chiefs and the Rams are doing now. Keep your defense cheap, but they know Matt Stafford's got a couple of years left. We're loading up the offense.

I think this kid for two years, when he's this good, you almost owe him a run because Philadelphia is the only team I look at and think they're not beaten Philly consistently. Outside of that, I think they match up with a lot of teams. Well, I mean, they beat Detroit last year. Now, Detroit was injured, but I would say that they have added a lot more firepower just talent-wise on their team coming into year two of this regime. Okay, Colin, the Jax. They have officially signed Travis Hunter to a rookie deal over the weekend. Landing a $30.57 million signing bonus paid up front. Good to Florida. Hunter is the first non-quarterback, not drafted first overall,

to get the signing bonus entirely up front. Hunter has spent the majority of OTAs and Midecant working on offense, but he did devote at least one full practice on defense so far. I don't know. I contend that you've got to make Trevor Lawrence work. I want him getting 10 targets. I think, you know how sometimes when you're trying to discover with Caleb Williams, Is it going to work? You load up the offense. I mean, Chicago's paying a lot of money for a lot of people, because they have to figure out in the next 17 games, is Caleb Worthen?

Jacksonville's already signed the deal. So my take, it's almost like Dak. Go get George Pickens. You're paying all this money for Dak, it has to work. I think Trevor Lawrence at this point, I know Travis can play defense, but we have to make this thing work. Or financially, as an organization, if Trevor Lawrence doesn't work, If you decide it just doesn't hit.

Where are you then? So to me, I want to see him be a 12 target guy. Yeah, I don't think it's possible to go both ways starting out like he did in Colorado. I mean, the Big 12 is not exactly the NFL. But I also think, you know, what would a team do if you put him out of corner? They would pull a tackle. They'd like, okay, he weighs 185 pounds. So I think easing him in an offense is clearly, I think that was the mindset when they picked him.

But playing every down on defense, have you seen the wide receivers in this league, Colin, the guys you have to cover. And even John Harbaugh, earlier this offseason said, they're not enough hours in the day to do this. And he liked the player, but he's like, this is crazy. Yeah. And I also think,

even if you're a great corner, there's ways to manipulate it so you're less effective. I mean, nobody's throwing to Patrick Sertan. Sauce Gardner was amazing. And then he suddenly wasn't. Jalen Ramsey aged fast. A receiver with a top quarterback feels like they can last a long time

if they get along. And if he's good with Brian Thomas with the quarterback, I mean the quarterback, a lot of pressure on him to succeed this year, like you said. Okay, last but not least, the Ravens. They made a big addition to their secondary last week, signing former Packer Corner, Jair Alexander, after his release from the Packers.

Lamar Jackson played a role in recruiting the pro-bowler, and Marlon Humphrey spoke to adding Alexander to the defense. A quote that's never been said And probably will never be said in NFL history Is we got too many corners that can cover So I think that's a great That's a great problem to have And I'm really excited for that addition

Obviously he just got off the plane But I'm super excited to add him I think it'll match really well with the team And it'll be a good secondary This to me after Philadelphia is in the running For second best roster in the league Baltimore is pretty good. They have been for a while.

I mean, defense is never going to be their issue. They have lost in these playoff games. You know, Lamar, the two turnovers last year. Mark Andrews drops. He did not play well two years ago against the Chiefs. If the Lamar Jackson that we have seen become a superstar these last couple years can put those games against Josh and Mahomes,

they can win a Super Bowl. Because their defense has been, Colin, they've been good for 25 years. The Baltimore Ravens defense is actually the one, I think the way we talk about the Steelers, Steelers defense hasn't been as good as they were way back in the day. And it's very T.J. Watt reliant. This team's got players, young players, older players, veteran players,

Roquan Smith. You know, Wiggins coming out of the draft like him. Marlon Humphrey resurrected his career moving into Nickel last year. So not worried about the Ravens on defense. It's all about Lamar Jackson playing one in these playoff games. That's really where they're at now. Yeah. John Middlecough with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lod. News has flown by today. Rick Buecker and Alexey Lawless. You know, it's the NBA's moved into a sort of a new Adam Silver era. I'm not sure what to make of it. I felt last night it felt like a little bit of a downer and didn't feel like it had a lot of gravitas, but I'm happy for O KC and I'll wrap it up with some thoughts on that coming up. The Hurd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd. Weekdays and noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast.

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down

on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. and we don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin won. I mean, she went down in three to Roebuckina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So as of last night, seven different NBA franchises have won titles in seven. Years in succession. So I got fooled a little bit. I thought Boston had a chance to, you know, be a dominant repeat team.

They were a very good regular season road team this year, kind of quirky at home. And I thought Denver could not keep really important pieces like Brown and KCP. And, you know, Jokic feels like he just doesn't have enough support. He doesn't have another All-Star. So I was saying if I take the last seven champions in, terms of, you know, how good are they? None of them, I believe, are great. I think, you know, listen, if you're great, you win multiple championships. Shaq and Kobe, Michael Jordan, Katie, Steph, Duncan. I mean, just San Antonio gets overlooked. Duncan's arguably a starter on the all-time starting

five. Man who's the best six-man ever, and Tony Parker was an MVP, and they had Bruce Bowens, you know, fighters, tough guys, legendary coach, well-funded, great international scouting. And that team's overlooked. I think all those teams would take O KC to the Woodshed. OKC doesn't have a consistent number two score. Depth has never been that important. We don't talk about depth with Michael Jordan's Bulls or KD's Warriors. Depth wins now. Roster construction, the new aprons, and CBA, you have to build with depth. So, but I mean, SGA is their only dependable score, and he's great, but he could not shoot from three-point land in this series.

So I would say of the seven last champions, the weakest team was Toronto. Kauai was absolutely a rental. They were very Kauai dependent offensively. In three rounds, they went six plus games and got a very fortuitous bounce against, I think, Philadelphia. So it was a team, it was a great story, but a much better story than an actual team. I would put the thunder at, you know, number six. Listen, they don't have a number two score of note consistently. Chet Holmgren will be much better over the next three years than this year.

I do think the coaching is good. It's not sensational. And they were 500 on the road. I think the bucks in 2021 because Janus is better than SGA, was a much more dominant player on both ends of the floor. Janus was a basket if he got the ball within five feet. And he was the best defensive player in the league at that time. Chris Middleton, Drew Holliday.

Now, they were a team. They were not a great team. And they got old very fast, Chris Middleton especially, and they fell behind 0 to 2 in series. So Milwaukee, again, we thought maybe all-time stuff, and they got old two years later. I think number four is the Warriors. It was their four title in an eight-year run. They, you know, they miss KD. But I thought from their coaching and their fortitude between Steph, Clay, Wiggins had a nice final against Boston and Steve Curran, Dremont,

I think it was such an intellectually, I think it's one of the smartest teams ever along with LeBron Wade, Spolstra, Badiye, Ray Allen, those Hegel teams. I would put the Warriors at number four. I would put the Nuggets at number three because Yokic at that time had certified himself as the best basketball player in the world. Dominant run in the conference finals and the finals, they only lost one game. I was fooled by this team. They were so dominant, so long. So confident. I love Malone the coach, but again, they lost some peripheral pieces and became very

Yokic-centric in following years. I think number two is the Celtics who had the best roster by far of the last seven champions, but it was still Jalen Brown, who was winning MVP of the conference finals and the finals, so you were never quite sure who was going to take that final shot, but they did not lose more than one game in any series. Most would put them number one. I would put the Lakers number one because I think AD is better than anybody on that Celtic team, and LeBron at that point was better than anybody on that Celtic team.

And if you give me the two best players in a series, I think I'll beat you. I trust LeBron more than Tatum and AD more than Jalen Brown. They were not as deep as the Celtics. But don't forget, Alex Caruso was on that team before we all knew who he was or realized how great he was and KCP was on that team. So now, they also had the best record. People forget this. They had the best record in the West before the league shut down with COVID. So you're dinging them because of COVID, and my takeaway is I'm giving them credit.

That was the quirky weirdest year of sports in my life. Now, Rick Buecker was apoplectic what I told him and showed him my list. I agree with you at the bottom of the list. But the fifth team should be the Los Angeles Lakers. winning in an antiseptic environment. No home court, no road. You just talked about the Oklahoma City Thunder having to go through that. You have an Anthony Davis and LeBron James who can't stay healthy through an entire season,

and we're going to take three months off in the beginning. We're going to basically play two half seasons, and they win a championship off of that, and you're going to put them at the top of the list. Yes, I am. Now, again, it comes down to LeBron A.D. in their prime. really close to it. I think that's the best tandem of any team in this seven-year run. I mean, we have to be honest. The Thunder are very good defensively. Who do you trust after S.J.E. to hit a shot. Like, I think J.L. Williams is talented.

I think J. Deb is talented. He has a big ceiling. He's not there yet. He's still an ascending player. So if you had to do this, what would be your big push on this? I put the Lakers last, Colin. But I've disliked the Lakers for 30 years. I do think if you look at the top teams over the last 20, 25 years, I don't think the Thunder would be a betting, they'd be an underdog against the ball. Katie Warrior, some of the great LeBron teams, some of the Spurs teams, obviously the Kobe Sheck.

I mean, this is not, their record and results, but I don't know. I saw a rating over the weekend. I think it's called the SRR, Jason. You may look that up. You know, it's points for, points against. It's a fairly simplistic rating system. They said if Indy won the title, they would be the weakest champion since the 1970.

Washington Bullets, which was Elvin Hayes, Wes Huntsheld, Phil Sheenere, Bobby Dandrich, Kevin Grevy. I know I'm aging myself, but I love that team. I didn't think that team was weak at all, but they would be viewed as one of the weaker team. So it took a Halliburton injury to ensure the championship.

So, hey, listen, congratulations. If nobody in Oklahoma cares, good for you. It's a great day in Oklahoma. All right, we'll see you tomorrow. Hey, guys, it's us, and the Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it.

But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Tolodano. it's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Crimless, Rory and I welcome. a very special guest.

When I did a podcast, I wear my sleep mask. I like where this is going. So, if you guys will indulge me. That's right. The incredibly talented and hilarious Will Ferrell on an episode dedicated to crimes committed by people named Will Ferrell. You're good for 300 crimes? Yeah.

We got two. I'm ready to go right up to present day. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.