The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - Selling Stock on Shedeur, Christine Brennan

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

Issues with Shedeur Sanders is forcing Colin to move off the Browns quarterback as a favored starter. USA Today writer Christine Brennan joins Colin to talk about her new book on Caitlin Clark and how the superstar is lifting the WNBA to its moment of widespread recognition.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRedio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Thanks for listening to The Heard. podcast. Oh, we just got a, in five minutes we'll have a little update on the Shadur Sanders story. Not great. Not great. You know J-Mack? I know. I was a big fan of Shadur-Sanders. I saw that. You know what? Sometimes even insiders on Wall Street sell their own company stock. I have a right to sell my dalliance, my interest in Shadur Sanders. I have sold all my shares over the last hour and a half. Well, it's also, by the way, the news you're going to come with,

it's not just the ticket that happened recently. Oh, yeah. There was another incident that we're only now finding out about Colin. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Celtics this week sold for $6 billion. Lakers said, well, we're already better than your brand. We're going to to sell for 10 and they did yesterday. Yeah, people are freaking out. I'm here to tell you, it is a great day to be a Laker fan with the new owners. So the group that bought the Lakers already owned a part of them, Mark Walter Group, really shrewd, L.A. resident.

All you have to do to wonder what's going to happen to the Lakers is look at the Dodgers, scouting, research and development, facilities, patients, A-plus, plus, plus, plus. Sharp dude. Don't know him. No people that do. They spend more money than anyone, but they are very judicious. They rarely miss. The Lakers have been a mom and pop shop for years.

It's Jeannie Bus and Friends of the Family. That's cute. But this is 2025 and it's pro sports. The organization needs more juice, more financing, more eyes, new eyes, and this is what they have. They're going officially from dial up to fiber optic. Yesterday was a great day to be a Laker fan. Now, the reports are, well, Jeannie Bus will still be the governor. She will still be in the front office.

Yeah, and that's what Mark Cuban told us when he sold the Mavs, and then he didn't know about the Luca trade. That's sort of a big deal. She's not going to have any power. Now, I think she's done great in operations. She's beloved in Los Angeles. A really cool person, having her around the organization is awesome. But it's a whole different ballgame. When you spend $10 billion to buy something, you're going to have the final say.

And that's what the Lakers need. This Dodger group, I'm telling you, man, they update and upgrade constantly. They don't get money away. They could have had Manny Machado. No. Cory Bellinger. MVP. Corey Seeger.

They'll move off people. Since Mark Walter and his group have arrived, here's the reality. The Dodgers are first or tied for first in wins, pennants, titles, world series titles. And I hear this stuff. I hear all the fearmongers calling just another oligarch, another billionaire that doesn't care about the team. You want to know the worst owners in my life? Ted Stepion, look it up. Donald Sterling, Marge Schott.

None of them were venture capitalists. None of them like Mark Walter were global asset managers. Small thinkers, bad people. Not this group. When you watch the Dodgers, man, they don't miss. It's impressive. By the way, a lot of teams spend money. Yankees spend a lot of money.

They're top heavy. Dodgers never are. So even the way they finance stuff, deferred payments, they're always a step ahead. They go and get the very best people. When they took the Dodgers over, Andrew Friedman was the hot shot GM in Tampa. They went and got him. They were working on that Otani deal three years. When he was an angel, three years out, they started working on that deal.

I would not be surprised if they doubled the R&D doubled the scouting department. the Lakers have too many friends and family. I'm looking for a meritocracy, not a barbecue. This is a great day. Don't be afraid of something that's been in the building for years. Now they own all of it. I think the Lakers, the bus family owns 15% for a couple years. Okay.

So you know I have been telling you, Shadur Sanders' accuracy is impressive. But for years and years and years, it just happens to be always with Cleveland. I've said quarterback in decision-making and maturity matters. The perfect quarterback in terms of maturity was Brady. Now I think Jalen Hertz is hard to be. I mean, he goes to the press conference every Wednesday. And, I mean, honestly, it's like, is he a managing partner at a law firm?

Like, he is a grown-up. If they got a Philadelphia has got all sorts of noise, he puts it out. That guy, he should just bring a fire extinguisher with Nick Siriani and Big Dom and AJ Brown. I think that guy puts out fires better than anybody. And then there's the Cleveland Browns. I warned you about Baker Mayfield. I said he's starting fires, not putting them out.

If he was a receiver, I wouldn't care or a corner. I was right. Johnny Mansell, talented. He's starting fires. He's not putting him out. As right. I know on the Reddit boards, Brown fans. took me apart. I warned you about Deshawn Watson.

You think that is a guaranteed contract? Those personal missteps to be diplomatic. Okay, so I championed Shador Sanders. I didn't love that he was sort of petty sometimes in games. But again, young athletes, I get it, a little bit of it. and I did not like the cringy draft room, legendary. I mean, you'd think Dion would have talked him out of that? Come on, man, you're a B prospect.

And I said at the time, and not everything, it's cringy. Then Word came out this morning, and I said, okay, I'm out. New information. I'm a pilot. New route. I'm off him. Report came out this morning. that he got busted for a 101 mile an hour speeding ticket.

Now word is out that he did not show up for his arrangement for that, and it's the second speeding ticket he's gotten. And remember, he's a pro athlete in Cleveland. They'd prefer not to give him tickets. They don't want to give Brown's quarterback's tickets. So I've got now drip, drip, drip, drip, drip. That's what I always said with Johnny Mansell. drip, drip, drip,

becomes a gush. That's what I said about Baker. Drip, drip, it's just this and this and this. If there was never a legendary draft room, and maybe this recent speeding ticket, you know, he's going

15, 20 over. Now I got the petulance as he played, the legendary draft room, 100 mile an hour ticket, Mr. Rainman, another speeding, ticket. I'm out. It matters. I'm out. I'm not interested. Starting tomorrow, we will have weekly Kenny Pickett features on the show. Say what you want my Kenny Pickett. I don't hear anything about his private life.

So, I'm sorry. And I've written about this in my first book, and I've talked about it for years. Go ahead, defend bad behavior. I remember having a friend. friend that was close, I don't want to call, he's a popular media figure in Chicago, was friends with Jay Cutler. And I had talked to him a couple times. I didn't like Jay Cutler's body language on the sidelines. And he said, listen, I've hung with him. It ain't great. And I started hearing about Jay Cutler off the field, and I was kind of out. I was like, I know he's talented. You had a big-time arm. Jay Cutler could sling it, baby.

He could sling it. But I didn't like what I was hearing about what he was like in the room, how he treated fans, get a little wild in his personal life, and I said, I'm out. And I've been consistent with this forever. I want you to be Herbert and Brady. I want you to be Dak Prescott. I may say Dak is overpaid.

That guy is a grown-up, and Dak's not perfect. Again, Dak had a little skirmish in college. I'm not asking to be perfect in college. I'm not asking for that. Shador's not in college. That legendary draft room, he's out of college. Now you're a professional. I'm done.

It's okay. By the way, Dylan Gabriel starting to be a primary topic on this show going forward. But you can say, well, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah, you or nobody in your family's ever had the corner office job been a quarterback it is when you're when you're a you know again people make mistakes people get duis people i like nobody everybody understands that but he already dropped to 144th in the draft he was already on fin ice i mean they're not even practicing him in the ones okay so he's on fin ice two tickets so Albert brir earlier it's not the end of the world but for me it is it we got you're

supposed to put fires out. I'm done. Here's Albert Breer. The issue now is that really, if you're the Browns, what you're looking for Sador Sanders to do from a work standpoint is come in and operate as if he's the 30th or 40th or 50th guy on the roster, because that's exactly what he is as a fifth round pick. He's a guy who's fighting not for their starting job for a job on the team period. This is a guy you're looking to blend in. And so this is, one of those things where it's like, ah, that's not great. Now, let's see how he'll react. Again, it's not something that's going to get him kicked off the team, but it's something you pay attention to. By the way, J. Mack, is it me or is Dylan Gabriel looking a little taller this morning?

Yeah, certainly, Dylan, Gabriel, very appealing. Cullen, I need to come clean with you an admission. I was cited out here in L.A. for a red light ticket last year. I just didn't want it to come out in the press. I wanted to make you aware of it before you were out of it. on me for a red light ticket. It was pricey, but it was definitely me. I made a mistake. Well, I'm a full stop guy, so I don't have to deal with that. Listen, Shador's going to bounce back from this. I have a

feeling, but I am very curious if other folks follow you. Cam Newton, who's been very defensive when anybody says anything about Shadour or D.N. Let's see what Cam Newton and company have to say. You can criticize me all you want for my

opinion. I don't cling to opinions when I get new information. I always say this. If somebody came up to you and let's say you, you know, you had some equities, you had a 401k, you had company stock, and you were 50 years old, you had kids, and you had some of your net worth and company stock, right? And somebody came up to you and said, dude, the CEO and two of the vice presidents are selling their stock. Would you be just like, hey, my opinion is this isn't This company, oh, I got new information. Why is the most important people?

Why are the most important people? Suddenly all simultaneously selling company stock. Do you want to get on a plane and the pilot goes, listen, we got new radar, but I'm going right into that lightning storm. New information, new opinion. I'm a pilot. I'm changing my route. I'm flying around Shadur Sanders,

and I'm bringing that plane down at Dylan Gabriel International. Oh, when is Stefanski talking to the media? Listen, nobody's asking about what's a running back situation in Cleveland or how's the wide receiver room? It's going to be like, what's going on with Shador Sanders and his speeding issues? I know I'm not even going to watch, but I can tell you the feedback on this. No big deal. That's what you said about Mansell.

What you said about Baker. And I kept telling you in Cleveland. And for the record, there is a belief that the coach and the GM did not want to draft him anyway. They're Dylan Gabriel fans. So you talk about on thin ice, if you thought you were on thin ice, right, or you thought you had a big contract coming up, wouldn't you just be a little more careful over those four or five months? I mean, there's times in life that we're all more careful, right? something's coming up oh oh you know it's like oh i've got a big event coming up i've got a

corporate deal coming up and it's just like i got to i got to act my age for this i got to be ready for this all of us do that in life we button it up for a party or an event or um where we have an off-site meeting uh i'm i'm gonna be you know best behavior yeah it's just like it's not it's just not difficult some some katelyn cluelan Mark thoughts from an insider next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHard Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers.

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And Christine Brennan now is joining us. She has a new book. I just started reading it last night on her. game, Caitlin Clark and the Revolution and women's sports. You've covered a lot of women's basketball. That book is available in July, early July. And again, I just got a sneak peek last night and started diving into it. So I was pretty critical, and you have as well, with the WNBA.

I mean, when they opened up with New York and Connecticut, I'm like, people, give this lady a break. This is rough. And, but I will be honest. I thought she would be a star. Can I defend the WNBA last year and say, hey, They didn't know she was going to become Tiger Woods with merchandise. Could I defend the WNBA, or did they just, Christine, did they, did they just kind of butcher her first year?

You know, Colin, I think there were signs of what was coming, and I think those signs were missed. When you look at, as so many of us did, watching her, you know, from home, right? And watching that junior years start to develop, obviously going to the final four, taking an Iowa team that no one predicted would go that far, than to the final game, losing, of course, to LSU, the logo threes, the 41-point games, the triple-doubles, just, you know, really the high wire act, right? It's, Caitlin Clark is a basketball player for sure, but she's really an entertainer. And that was clear, I think, to many of us. And then the senior year, where you've got people lined up in 18, 19, 20,000 arenas, seat arenas at, you know, at Maryland and Ohio State and in January, you know,

for hours waiting to get in to see her play. She's barnstorming, right? Around the country, or at least around a good chunk of it. I think the signs were there that this was a huge deal. And as I report in the book and talk about this issue, and I do have a lot on this topic in the book, I think that there was probably a thought within the WNBA, which I've really covered from the get-go,

that could this be possible? You know, the WNBA was basically ignored by the male-dominated mainstream sports media, uh... for years and you know that's that's one of the realities of our sports world well i'm wondering if it was just something like oh could this possibly carry over obviously it carried over

it's it has been an extraordinary story that you've covered that i've covered so many of us have and uh... i think yes i think you could see something was coming and i'm not so sure that the w nba a in fact i am sure the w mba was not prepared for the magnitude of the moment so chris broussard said something uh... yesterday or the day before on f s and Chris said it actually was a bit beneficial that her skirmishes were not by African-American WNBA players because we got into this whole racial stuff and Chris said no she's a trash talker nobody likes her off the Indiana fever

and I thought it was an interesting whether that's right or not I thought it was an interesting take is that when there was a lot of talk early about Angel Reese and and the kind of a racial component did you buy that that you think that was a fair story? Certainly the issue of race is a big deal in this story. And I delve into that with wonderful voices, black and white, great leaders, thought leaders, like Dr. Harry Edwards, of course, who was the impetus for the 1968 Mexico City Black Power Salute. Other voices, Brian Oskir, you know, I think it's very important to deal with that. I think we'd be naive, you and I talking if we didn't realize and, of course, understand, as Chris

would say and did say it clearly. that there are those issues involved. You know, the Kennedy Carter hip check, which I go into in depth, because that of course is last season. It was such a huge moment, not just with the WNBA, frankly, Colin, but in our culture.

You know, people are talking about it for days. You know, of course, that was Kennedy Carter, who is black. And the WMBA did not, the referees did not deal with it in the moment, just like the one with Marina Mabry, of course, who's white. So you've got two of these kind of blinds, in fact, not kind of, blindsiding situations of the person who is the biggest economic driver in the WNBA,

one white, one black. But yes, you cannot take race out of this conversation, nor should we take race out of this conversation, because there's so many elements of this story that do involve a 74% black league that never got, these players never got their due. Never. I fought for it. I've written about it. I talked about it.

And people will ignore them for decades. And thankfully they're not ignoring them now. Obviously, some of what we're seeing is stuff that we would really rather not see. You know, it's listening to you. Christine Brennan joining it for the radio audience. The game is the book is, excuse me, on her game, Caitlin Clark in the Revolution and Women's Sports. It sounds like you think the WNBA is again making a mistake by not at least sending a message and suspending the young lady that ran her over yesterday.

Am I right in interpreting that? Yes, yes you are. You know, we got some interesting data a couple of weeks ago. When Caitlin Clark was injured, missed those five games, gone about three weeks. The USA Today, my colleague Jeff Zildgoat actually reported that the TV attendance for the entire, TV audience for the entire league, not just the Indiana Fever, but the entire league, TV audience dropped more than 50%. That means that more than half of the entire league,

the TV audience for the WNBA disappeared when Caitlin Clark was gone. Crazy. You know, I covered Tiger the length of his career. We never saw those numbers with Tiger. We saw big drops when Tiger was gone. Michael Jordan, I looked nowhere near those kind of drops. So this athlete, Caitlin Clark, is so important to the financial future of the WNBA. At the time, by the way, as you know, that the CBA, the collective bargaining agreement,

is open and will be being negotiated. This is a key moment for the WNBA in terms of salaries and TV and the four times now that the TV contract is four times more than it was before. That's a wonderful development. Caitlin Clark is really the engine here driving all of it, and now you have this data. And I know that a lot of people don't like that. Facts are facts. Numbers are numbers. That's it.

And for me, the whole reason I even looked at this story, as I did, wrote a few columns for USA Today, and then eventually had a a book deal, but even before then, I realized having covered sports for a long time, Colin, that I never thought that I would see arenas packed to the rafters and TV ratings, more than the men, as we know, 4 million more for the women's final in the NCAA championship in 24 than the men the next night because of Caitlin Clark. All of these things that we would see arenas having to be, games being moved to bigger arenas, and that we would be talking about a female athlete. Never in my lifetime did I think I would see that.

And I think that's what makes this so remarkable and so different from another phenom coming into a sport, the magnitude for her and what she means to the W. And the WNBA, you know, we talked about Tiger. There was golf, you know, and Tiger did, of course, lift golf. But golf had already had Arnie and Jack and Tom Watson and so many others and even going way before that. the NBA obviously needed the boost of bird of magic. But it had also had, of course, great names from the past. Will Chamberlain, Bill Russell, those great teams, the Celtics, and others. So what I guess I'm saying is that the WNBA needed this more than any other of the sports

that we kind of try to compare Caitlin to with those great phenoms lifting a sport. She is even more important to her sport than those guys were to theirs. This is Rick Buecker mentioned this yesterday. Stephen Aid is well, that, you know, we're playing the victim thing with the skirmish, a little hot. She is a trash talker. She's Larry Bird. And by the way, I don't know, I never am going to assume you've ever watched anything, but my taking this whole thing is if you respect women, then let's treat them more like guys basketball. They're going to fight. They're going to flagrant. They're going technical. They're going to swear. They're going to be inappropriate. That's how this thing works.

Basketball. The WNBA is not a vertical league. It has been chippy for 20 years. It is. It is. they chippy, it's a more linear, more horizontal. They don't do John Morant and jump over you. They elbow. These are physical women. And we're finding out they talk trash. And my take is, it is a wonderful thing. But back to my initial point is, are we making her more of a victim?

That she's got a little Larry Bird and some of this stuff, maybe she's got it common. Oh, the last person who wants to be seen as a victim is Caitlin Clark. Obviously, I spent a lot of time around the team. And by the way, I disagree with Chris on that point about that they hate her or don't like her. They love her. They love her. And some of the new players they brought in wanted to come, right? They saw what was going on in Indiana. They saw the opportunities to do the deals and go to the supermarket and the gas station and whatever and meet people

and get whatever the fee is for that, the honorarium, that Caitlin can't do all that stuff. So there's a lot of people who like Caitlin Clark a lot. But she is a trash talker, absolutely. They had the de-escalation committee last year to drag her away from trouble when she was close to getting the seventh technical that would have meant she would have had to sit out a game. Oh, yeah, she's feisty, she's tough, she's strong, the way she revs up a crowd, and people love her for that, Colin. So I agree with you. I think there's absolutely no reason to coddle these athletes. I certainly, when the questions I ask, I'm not coddling them.

If I'm going to ask a man-man that question, a male athlete, I will ask a female athlete. Obviously, that was something that people got mad about last year. That's journalism one-on-one to me. And yes, now, Caitlin Clark absolutely can take it. Now, the question is, though, the cheap shots, the out of the blue, you don't see them coming, cheap shot, the freight train kind of thing of Marina Mabry. Is that smart to not have them punished, have that punished by a game or two suspension? I'm thinking not, with what we talked about before, Colin, the magnitude of Caitlin Clark and what she means for this league at this moment. Yeah, no, league send messages all the time.

I mean, the NFL will change rules in this season. And I said this earlier. I didn't know what to do with it. I obviously garnered technical, but you can make a compelling argument. They should probably just for messaging. They should probably sit that player down for a game or two. If nothing else, just tone and messaging. My mom would from time to time when I was a kid sit me down just for messaging.

And it was always very effective. So that leagues have been doing that my entire life. Christine Brennan, on her game, Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports, July 8th, it's out. I started it last night. Folks, last year I called her Taylor Swift in basketball shoes. This is a new frontier. This stuff is incredible. Think about this.

They out drew the Pacers, and the Pacers were in the finals, and the Pacers are the fastest-paced NBA team, so they play an incredibly aesthetically pleasing style of basketball, and the fever outdraw them. That is in itself remarkable. Christine, final thoughts on the book, and if I'm on the, I don't know if I want to buy it, tell people kind of where you go on this. A lot of stuff I've learned early that I didn't know.

Well, that was my hope. You know, it's a journalistic, no-holds-barred look at this time. It's unauthorized, and that's a good thing. thing. That means that I am not working with Caitlin. She answered all my questions. She is amazing. She is as good as you'd hope she would be. Looks you in the eye. Answers everything, goes on for several minutes. I write in the book, Colin, she's 22 going on 40 or 50. Remarkable, especially with the issues and the things that were thrown at her, for sure. And she's kept it up again this year. And, you know, I break a lot of news. More on the Olympic snub that I think is the worst team selection

decision I have ever seen in covering the Olympics since the 80s. Yeah. And a lot of, thank you. And yeah, I mean, it looks worse by the day. Obviously, it's a year old now so we can move on. But it is, I think people will be fascinated by that. A lot from Caitlin's friends, you know, Kate Martin, Tamika Catchings throughout the book, as I mentioned, talking about the start of the WNDA, how tough that was, how important that was. I really tried to touch. on every important issue of this last year and a half at this extraordinary time in our country. And I do think people who follow her closely will still be very surprised by some of the things in the book and very proud of it.

And certainly, again, Caitlin Clark is a worthy story at this time. I mean, truly, I think you can make the case. Not only is she one of our most famous athletes, she's one of our most famous Americans, period. You know, grandmothers and grandfathers in the produce section who would never watch that they're looking for where ion is or whatever on their TV set to make sure that they can watch Patelan Clark play. And that's a great thing for all those other players to get that attention as well. Christine, thank you so much. Good seeing you again. You too, Colin. Thank you. That's interesting when she, because I remember when they didn't put her on the Olympic team and I said, folks, get her on the team.

What do you do? And I got a lot of pushback. You're out of time. you don't understand. I said, here's what I understand. Sometimes an artist gets hot. Martin, you'd know this. You put them on the tour. Coachella's like, let's get them in. Well, I mean, they've only sold so many records.

You put them, you just, Coachella, get them out there in the desert. Is not putting her on the Olympics. I'm glad twisting Brennan has that take. because I just didn't get that at all. The league got a little too precious. A little too precious. All right, J. Mack. Where did you land on that one?

I'm like, put on the Olympic one? Yeah. Oh, that was goofy. I mean, you know, it goes back. Do you remember Steph Curry when he zoomed past like Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook and became like a major phenom in the country? Everybody knew Steph Curry.

There was jealousy and hate for him. him from Chris Paul and Westbrook. They were supposed to be the next great stars. And there were anger. I think the same thing happened with Caitlin Clark. She zoomed past everybody in the league. And they were like, well, we're putting a rookie on the Olympic team. Let's settle down.

Yeah, I got the Christine Brennan book. Very excited to read that thing. Yeah. You know, we're all in on. Caitlin Clark, Colin. She's a big story. Like, huge. Yeah.

That Olympic thing was really polarizing. And again, I remember at the time saying sometimes just don't out think the room. An artist gets hot and athletes get just make, make accept. People go, well, we don't want to create a precedence. Caitlin Clark is the precedence. There are no more, there's never been another Tiger Woods. Rory McElroy's got talent, but he doesn't have Tigers will enforce.

There are no other, like we may never see another Mahomes. Josh Allen's great. So is Lamar. Mahomes got Andy Reed. We may never see this again. Yeah, okay? So, like, a lot of the greatest of all time, we'll never see a basketball player like LeBron.

No way. Was it eight straight finals? Wayne Gretzky, eight straight MVP's. That's never happening again. We're never going to see that again. Yeah. All right. Herdline news around the corner.

Back in a second. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts around there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say,

Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field

and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness.

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levan this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds,

just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history. You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast.

Sunday, Alex Palo looks to continue his legendary season at Road America. While the rest of the pack battle for the checkered flag, the indie car series Sunday, 130 Eastern on Fox. Without further ado, J-MACC with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, let's start with your Rams. You remember Jared Verse?

What a season he had. boy, he was phenomenal. The sacks weren't there, but the pressures were forthmost of any defensive player last year. Well, recently retired, offensive tackle, Toran Armstead gave an interview and said he's glad he doesn't have to face Jared Verse anymore. He was a rookie from the Rams. That young boy, Jared Verst? Yep. I'm cool.

I'm good. I never got to see that man again. I'm all right with, I'm okay with that. never seeing that young man again in my life. Bull Rush different. No, it's different. You know that it's coming. You brace yourself.

He's different. Jerry Verst is different. He would be a defensive player the year one of these days. Mark my words. I think there's an argument that at some point here, this year he will be the second best pass rusher

to Miles Garrett in the league. That's how good he is. Put your money where your mouth is and bet him defensive player of the year. Take a flyer on that one, huh? Better than DJ Watt? I just hope Brock Purdy remains upright. This kid is, this kid is, he is different.

Well, Versus is going to have to get around Trent Williams, first of it. How old's Trent? Decent, decent tackle. Let me tell you this, I remember reading the draft preview on him, and, you know, we nitpicked these young athletes, and they were saying, like, Jared Verse, he's only got one move. He's just strictly a bull rusher. And then these 330-pound, oh, tackles are like, yeah, it's different.

Yeah, he may only have one move, but you can't block that move. He bulldozes, think about how hard it is to move an athletic, 6'5-335-pound diet. He knocks them backwards, and he is, what does he weigh, 265, 270? So he is 60 pounds less. He knocks these, and they know he's coming. It's not blindsided. Look at this. Look at these double teams.

He just man, and this is the Eagles O line. He just manhandles, pro ball tackles, manhandles him. You know, I never played football, but that's kind of how I think I would look if I played defensive end. I mean, versus every, what an animal. Let's move to the Denver Broncos, Colin. Boy, their defense was excellent last year, and they got the playoffs of Bo Nix and Sean Peyton. Well, Sean Payton, talking to the media, expects the team to have a real good defense. adding there are a lot of ways to help a young quarterback, any quarterback, and a good defense helps.

Now, a lot of people would say, oh, just give them the weapons. But the defense means, hey, man, you just have to not make mistakes, and we good. You don't need to throw the ball 30 times. We don't need weapons because our defense is going to keep us in games, and I think that's the idea in Denver. Well, that that's been one of the problems with Detroit, is that Goff, in his first couple of years, got into shootouts, and Jared Goff's not a guy, you know, because he doesn't have a lot of escapeability. keep asking your offensive line to pass block for 44 throws, it's a problem. So I think my take is always been, even with Patrick Mahomes, I want him throwing 28 times a game.

I do not want my offensive line. Offensive linemen love run blocking. None of them like pass blocking. Right? Like you make one mistake pass blocking, you're on the highlights. So, I mean, it just for all things considered, even Mahomes and Josh Allen, you get to a about 28. Go look at Dax numbers when they ask him to throw over like 33 throws. He has a losing record. There is it when you start asking quarterbacks and old linemen,

that's a high risk, multiple blitzes, balls in the air, just, it doesn't long term, it's not a way to win games consistently. Yeah. Final story, Colin is back to the Lakers and their new ownership. Well, Mark Walter, the big billionaire,

you know, he had a stake in the Dodgers, and it kind of went well. Well, after the news broke of Walter buying the Lakers, a reporter asked Dodgers manager Dave Roberts about some photoshopps going around of Shohay Otani in a Lakers uniform. Would your message to their fans being hands off? Yeah, yeah, I don't think, right. Yes, that's my message, hands off of Shohay. Yeah, they got enough superstars wearing the purple and gold. Yeah, leave him alone. It will be interesting, though, if you look at the way they have run the Dodgers, they will pay, but they'll move off stars in their 20s.

Bellinger, Seeger, Max Scherzer was older. I think he was in his 30s. Mani Machado had a good year with the Dodgers, and they knew he was going to the Padres. They knew the Padres were in it, and they're like, go ahead. And if I recall, I could be wrong on this. Zach Grinky was another one, a pitcher. I think Mark Walters group owned the Dodgers at that point. I could be wrong, but a lot of people thought they should have paid him.

They let him go to Arizona, if I recall. So pretty crazy stat, Colin, last 12 years since Walters took over in 2012, the Dodgers have been, how do we say this, decent? I mean, look at their MLB rank and wins first. Divisional titles, first, NL Pennants, tied for first, World Series, tied. That's just since this guy took over. Now, obviously, baseball, no salary cap. You could just spend as much as you want.

But the thing is, he's got the infrastructure with the Dodgers where they've got everything laid down. I mean, it is perfect. Their scouting system's impeccable. You start adding that to the Lakers? I think Luca at least wins one title with the Lakers, maybe two or three. They're going to get that roster stacked. I would say within the next three years. The key to it is, there are general managers in this league.

In every sport, there are general managers. managers, Howie Roseman NFL. Veach is very respected in Kansas City. There are general managers as these salary caps, like the NBA was the last, well, the NBA until about a year ago, two years ago, I mean, we saw Golden State do it. You could stack your roster. You could just have your paying Draymond, Steph, Clay, Katie, you could pay everybody. Who cares, yeah.

Boston was the last roster like that, and now they're moving off. They're going to move off multiple big contracts. The reality is general managers are really important in the NFL, and that's going to become the key. My first take is, now, Rob Polenka signed a new deal with Jeannie Bus. They like – I don't know – and they do like him. And he deserves some credit. Austin Reeves is undrafted.

But if you go look at the way the Dodgers did it, they got their scouting department up and cooking. I would not be surprised if they didn't. add extensively to the Lakers Scouting Department. Overseas, just add bodies to it. Well, I mean, if you go look at the Philadelphia Eagles, scouting department, and the Cincinnati Bengals,

why do the Eagles draft better than the Bengals? It's not just Howie Roseman. He's not in his Volkswagen van driving around the country scouting division FCS football. He's got a massive staff and he coordinates it. Well, JJ Reddick, when he came into the Lakers, was like, oh, I'm big on analytics.

Where's our analytics department? They were like, yeah, go into that office. Cubby hole. He's like, what the hell is this? You know? So he's already started to build out the analytics crew with the Lakers. Listen, they're going to be going to the moon. Buy Lakers stock right now, folks.

J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping back. The Herd-Lie News. We were talking about this a couple days ago. We were saying this, J-Mack, is like tonight's fascinating. I am actually, strangely, equally interested in the Indiana Pacers in OKC as I am Caitlin Clark facing one of the league's

most physical basketball teams. And I can't explain it. Like sometimes, we're all distracted. Our iPhones, I mean, I don't know how many hours a day you're on your phone. I try to stay under hour and a half, but I read a lot on the phone. But the truth is, we're just a very distracted nation. And so, and this has really hurt baseball, basketball, hockey, regular season rate. ratings. That's why it's kind of a...

Yeah, because like we'll watch events. NBA finals, playoffs, a Saturday night NBA game, college football. We watch events. I mean, because the Olympic events, Olympic ratings up, World Cup, up, you know, UFC pay-per-view, everything, the events have never been more popular and profitable. But getting people to watch Monday through Thursday or Monday through Friday regular season games is a real struggle. That's why baseball in the last couple of years has seen that. and Fox deserves a lot of credit. Our Fox management has gone to baseball for four or five years and said,

guys, you have to create events. Met Spilly's over in London. The game in Iowa. Fox management, I think I can say that now. I hope I don't call it into the principal's office. But Fox went to baseball and said, you don't have enough events. The home run derby is your highest rated non-world series game.

Do more stuff like that. And it mattered. And so baseball's been doing that. and changing rules. And there's an immediate payoff. Attendance again is up. Ratings are again up. So baseball, and it's harder for baseball, because you have 162 games, you have so much inventory.

There's no scarcity in baseball until the postseason. So you can see baseball is the greatest example. If you make stuff feel more urgent, you shorten the games, so every inning feels bigger. And if you create events, American people have always loved baseball. It just got long and we're on our iPhone. So I don't know what it is. I can't explain it. But Caitlin Clark Games, I literally check, oh, what channel are they on and what time are they on?

Yeah, tonight, Caitlin Clark's probably TV2 for Amazon Prime. TV1, USA Saudi Arabia. I'm just going to remind you, at the last World Cup, Argentina lost its opener with Messi to Saudi Arabia. So this team is no joke, no pushover. I am seeing a little bit of U.S. game day money coming in. They're up to minus 185 on the money line to win tonight. USA, Saudi Arabia. It's a big game.

You called game one. You said it was going to be four or five nothing. Yeah, they were going to roll. I kind of want to be a little nerdy and go one one tonight, but I will go to one USA over Saudi Arabia. I don't want Pochitino to get blasted here. You lose 02, and the sky is officially falling. I'm serious.

I mean, listen, in the big picture, it doesn't matter that much. A loss for our show tomorrow? You're probably going to leave with it if they lose. Oh, USA Soccer's on FS1. Yeah. Of course it is. We have the tournament. Massive.

Okay, FS1 tonight. TV number one, USA Soccer. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what?

We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick.

Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. a Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house, Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud.

But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you,

exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.