The Herd with Colin Cowherd - HOUR 3 - Taunting, offseason

Episode Date: November 11, 2021

Colin gives his thoughts on the NFL taunting ruleDecisions NFL teams should make in the offseasonGuest: Antoine Walker Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's our number three. Live in Los Angeles, it's the hurt. Wherever you may be in, however you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio FS1. I was just thinking about this. The taunting stuff, Mike Tomlin yesterday, it was funny with Joey and I. So Tomlin's, you know, most of the coaches don't like the taunting stuff. And it's funny.

So ask yourself if you, there's always been this belief. I would say a lot from Democrats, which is, you can give a longer sentence, a prison sentence or jail sentence. It will not curb, like, violence, like people are emotional. And so you can say, life in prison, if you do this, but it won't solve that. Like, people do what they do. There has to be other measures to avoid, like, really bad crime. And in taunting, what the NFL is essentially saying is, the longer sentence, you're going to suspend it for four games, it will not curb it.

the only way to curb it is we're not letting you go near the other bench. We don't even, because we don't trust in an emotional game with regulated violence, we don't even trust you. People go crazy. Like the kid for Chicago. Of course he's going nuts. Belichick literally has been caught on film saying you should celebrate. He's made a great play.

You put all that time in. I mean, the NFL is the only sport in America, maybe soccer, where you practice for a week to play one game. You got a lot of stuff pent up. I mean, baseball, there's another red bat. Basketball, there's another game. hockey we're playing tomorrow night. And so that's why the taunting thing, I think what the NFL is basically saying is,

we don't think our players in this sport, it's so emotional. It's unrealistic to go, don't get excited. Of course you're going to get excited. What we're saying is, when you get excited, do not. We think we can control this. Celebrate with your team. Well, the issue is there's complete lack of consistency with the calls from the referees. So if it was just every time you are in a opposing player's face, there's going to be a taunting call, then maybe.

But it's worked in the NBA. The NBA completely regulated this out. That's why you don't see huge brawls anymore. I mean, it's very punitive if you come off the bench or if you get involved in an altercation. If there's any punches thrown, and that was because of malice in the palace. But remember, that's not as violent a game. No, but I think the issues, one is there's no consistency. So when there's a rule with there's no consistency,

that means it's left completely up to the subjective determination of the referees, which if you come from one place in the world, you might think that that's taunting and that's over the line. You come from another, you might not. And that's just, you can't have rules like that. Like past interference is past interference, period. Like for the most part, we can all agree, okay, that was or that wasn't. Right.

Well, I think what Mike Tomlin is saying, and Albert Breer talked about this. We had a bunch of fights last year, and they're just saying, okay, we got to do something. So what do we do? So the argument is, well, let's suspend them more games. Well, we know there's a lot of politicians that believe that does not work. There is data to suggest that doesn't work. Right, but this is also not, these are also not crimes. No, no, no.

But it is a very, it's a very regulated, violent. It's hard to control your emotions in place. football. But you shouldn't be regulating the emotion out of the sport. But you're not. That's the issue with baseball on the unwritten rules. You're not regulating the emotion out. You're trying to regulate the fight out. But yeah.

I mean, it's a very nuanced conversation. I think the rule is awful and they should get rid of it. It's terrible. It's not being officiated correctly. There's no way to determine with one official feels as taunting and one is another. And that's why these rules are affecting the outcomes of games because it is a completely utterly subjective call.

Is this taunting to me? I don't know. He was kind of close to where. He kind of wasn't. So how is the NBA gotten out of it? Because it's very clear. If you leave this space. Right.

So again, so that's my point. The NBA is doing, saying, we're literally going to create places on the court. Right. Okay. So what the NFL is saying in their way, although you don't have places. The NFL saying. But that's the issue. The line is so wobbly.

That's right. For what is taunting and what is not. And where these calls are being made and where they're not. But we know the NFL often. has a rule. They don't always get the first rule right. No, it's very clunky. That's why it shouldn't exist.

Because until you can sit there with every single referee and say, this is the line like the NBA has, if you are over this, this real estate. This real estate, this is the punishment. But everyone's just picking and choosing. It's kind of the mood. And then they're at a referee throwing their side into a player and making a spectacle of it.

If the real estate was more exact. Yes. Okay. So because we. know why they're doing it. Right. Well, that's debatable as well. I think there's a lot of get off my lawn guy stuff going on with this. And that's definitely my issue with it.

I think that's what a lot of fans are complaining about is if there's a rule, the lines have to be clear. This is and this is not. And this rule, there are no clear lines. Okay, but now here's my argument. Every sport has an area where there are no clear lines. Like we all admit in baseball playoffs, I mean, you go to Twitter. during a baseball play-up game.

The home plate umpire... Yeah, but that's like that's... Those are rules that are... There's still a... Okay, this is a foul and this is a ball and this is a strike. Like, we know what the rules of the game are. This is about regulating emotion.

This is not about the rules of the game. But the NBA does it too. Right, but they have a lot. There's like a literal actual line you can see on the floor. Don't cross this. What I'm saying is, the rule's right, they just don't know the real estate of the rule. I don't like the rule at all.

But if you're going to have the rule, you've got to make it an actual rule. It can't be up to like the mood of the referee. It can't be a situation like the other night where he's throwing himself into the player and flipping it in the air like he's on the ice capades. That is idealistic because we know statistically there are officiating crews. I mean, this is like understood. Well, then you can't have it because it's not a rule. No, no, because there's officiating crews that call more.

PI the calmore holding right but there is a PI rule and we can look at and say it's subjective to a degree but we still know you can't do this but it's really subjective about emotion this is a this is not a this is not a rule it doesn't say you can't be emotional in football I think it's a real estate rule and they haven't figured out the real estate I I think we agree that is the issue the basketball's figured out the real estate of it there's going to be a line that you draw then it needs to be a literal line. Like, you can't go within this many feet of another player or then it's taunting. Here's a solution. So in the NFL, because you have to have parameters. Like in hockey, you know, like in hockey, you can't go in the crease. A lot of people in baseball are like,

you shouldn't have these defensive shifts. We have, like in basketball, can't be in the key three seconds. Right. In hockey, can't be in the crease. So we know this. And by the way, in the NFL, the other night, who was the guy for the bears that lined his helmet over the ball? There was an offside. There are zones. all over football. You can go there, you can't. How about this? I'm just, I want a solution for this.

Because I really do get what the NFL's doing. We know that saying your punishment will be worse does not deter bad action. We know that from our judicial system. We know that's not the case. You can't tell players don't be, but if you give them lines, do not go to this place. The key for three seconds, the crease. Or in NBA, don't leave the bench during a fight. So you know what when you, you were allowed in the NFL.

once you roll out, there is a line in which you can now throw the ball out and it's not intentional grounding. Correct. So again, the NFL clearly defines real estate and everybody gets the rule. There's very few times we argue about, I can't believe that wasn't a ground. Yes. How about, so let's just think about what would be the, this would be fun game, the short game, but a fun game. So what would be the rule on taunting? So how about this?

When you make a play, the obvious stuff is finger pointing. We all know that. Grabbing finger bumping. Let's get out of that space. That stuff was a flag five years ago. Right. Okay. If you make a play and you make a concerted movement toward any side other than your sideline,

meaning let's say I joy tackles me and goes right to the sideline makes so you're saying the other so let's say this rules in place and that's the change so the other night in this bears steelers game if marsh was facing his sideline it wouldn't have been taunted not a taunt it's not a taunt it's not a taunt now again there's the referee bump let's get out of that space because I thought the whole thing was weird but when when when he went over to the steeler sideline you'd be like no no no no no you can go celebrate all day long at your sideline. Because if you look at the NFL, all these sports, they figured out the real estate. Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm, we're arguing the same thing. By the way, I don't, I don't mind the kick. It's weird, but I don't mind the kick. I don't mind it. Now, here's what I don't like. Okay, so this part. Bro, get out of there. If he's facing this way, then it's not taunting. Get out of there. Okay. I'm okay with that. I'm a solution person. No, I mean, because whether we agree or disagree with it, the NBA is just on a really good job to define, here's the lane, stay out of it,

here's the fight, stay out of it. Because they had a disaster malice the pal. And everyone knows what the punishment is. And no one is ever really, rarely willing to take the punishment for that. Hockey's also done an amazing job. Stay out of the crease. And players do. The league, the NFL's made a mistake on,

players don't know exactly what the hell they can do and where they can go. Yeah, I agree. So it's not on the player right now. So far, it's hard blame the player. Because by the way, when Marsh goes over, when this kid goes over to the Steeler bench, the flag didn't come out. No, the flag didn't come out until the ref walked intentionally into him and threw his body into him and threw the flag. And I still don't blame anything. This doesn't look. I think he's, that's a ridiculous flag there. That, that's, I would have been okay with the flag for the move to the Steeler bench. Right. That's a stupid flag. No, that's an embarrassing. That's a

horror. It's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. Okay. Okay. What you don't want ever is, is fans thinking that the referees are inserting them themselves into the game. So Alex, Alex just told me the flag was for moving toward the Steeler bench, not the butt hit. No, no, no. It was for the bench, but it wasn't thrown until this. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. So maybe he was going to throw it first, but for whatever reason he felt they needed to throw his body into him.

So I am okay with that flag. Now, now, the problem is it hasn't really been defined by the league. I agree. Yes. And we, for the record, the NFL did this on the catch for about. seven years. None of us could figure out what a catch was. Yes, but again, that is a, that is a functional part of the game. Pass interference. Yes. Offsides. A catch. What is not a catch, in bounds, out of bounds, movements once you have the ball. All those are functional parts of how the game is

played. This is regulating emotion. It is not affecting the play of the game. Yeah, like I, I don't want to regulate a motion out. I want boundaries. Yes. And that's what Tomlin's saying. I want, I want, Mike's saying the game's getting sloppy and there's too many fights.

Right. We want to clean the game up. They don't want a situation like that. What happened with Miles Garrett. Giants Rams got ugly. And Mason Rudolph. Yes. And what Albert Breer said earlier was the real point,

which is that there's no way of knowing because the calls are so subjective. And now there are so many of them as compared to last year because of the intensification of the rule, that we don't know what it is. And because it's already a subjective call, there needs to be better, more clear, outline parameters. If you do this, it will be this. And then call it consistently.

Yeah, the UFC is an example. So when the UFC started, you could do eye-gouging. I mean, literally, you could do anything. And then Dana White took it over and said, listen, if we want to get Budweiser and big sponsors, there has to be regulations on what you cannot do. this is too gory, which it was really smart. I mean, that's when the sport took off is when they finally regulated some of it. But what the UFC did, and this was a real thing for several years, there were classes.

I mean, it was, here's the rules, you can't do it, you do it, you're out or suspended. So the UFC did a really good job to say, hey, man, we're teaching you. You can't go there. And so I think what happened with the taunting rule, they thought they were just going to bring it out in the preseason, over call it. and everybody would be like, all right. Yeah, that's why I think the both of us didn't really have a problem

with the rule change. I didn't think it was going to spiral into this and we were going to be having conversations about it affecting games in November. That's not sense. You have to figure it out before that. So the league has to, and they've done this their whole life.

They'll create a rule, they don't quite get it right, they tweak it the following year. Things can be changed. Yeah. But it's, I do, I will argue that commissioners are terrified of helmet off throwing punches.

Yeah, I mean, you don't want fights. It's brutal. I just think that there's a bit of an exaggeration on how many fights and how bad they truly are. It's not real bad. It's mostly just pushing and shoving and maybe a couple times a year we'll have one that we'll significantly talk about. But it's a collision violent sport and you're going to have. have those. You know where we get fights.

The Miles Garrett Mason Rudolph situation. Where you get fights is in the inter-squad games. When you practice for three straight days against the team, those are not, those are bad. Yeah. Those are, but they happen every single year. Yeah, and they happen because you scrimmage hard. And you're out in the blazing sun. For three days in a row, Raiders, Rams, or whatever it is.

And they're not televised. So the league doesn't get too worked over that. The problem is when you have like 70% of that and it's televised all these, you know, we're one of them. We talk about it. It's ugly. Yeah, but I think there's an exaggeration for how ugly and how often they are. So to me, I'm a solution person.

I agree with you. It just has to be very clear and called consistently. Or you're going to have fans freak out. And players, for that matter, too. Because it's literally affecting the outcomes of games. Don't make players guess. Right. Right.

NBA, three seconds key. We put a box around it. And it makes it more consumable for fans. Yes. Because when the call is made, everyone's not freaking out that it's a terrible call. That's, you know, it's fixed. And, you know, the reps are, you know, going for the other team.

And like, there's just, okay, like, that was a mistake. And we know what it was. And you're not allowed to do that. But the rule has to be called consistently for it to be in that space. See, I have 13 minutes of a good sports argument. And there was a solution. Yeah, we come with solutions, nuance. NFL, get your real estate right.

NBA's got the real estate figured out. See, Twitter? That's how you have a conversation. Yeah. That's how you have a conversation. And then you get a solution. Completely opposite sides. And you meet in the middle and a solution.

Give them parameters on where they can't go and they won't do it. By the way, I think in the touchdown celebration rule, they also give them parameters. Don't give them time parameters in the celebration. You get like, there's. Well, I mean, I don't know that there's a time parameter. Most teams don't eventually, like someone's like, all right, we're done with the bowling celebration. But the celebration thing was a good example of it. For a long time, it was awful.

We were like, why should you not be able to celebrate? It's so hard to score a touchdown. And some guys did and didn't get called. Right. And then some guy, so it was weird. There were celebrations. And it was fuzzy. But that's not harming anyone.

No, that's not. So that was an easy change to make. Like, okay, obviously this is too much. We live in a social media era. Kids want to celebrate. They earned it. Fascinating. Just get a little celebration.

And they changed it. That's right there. You just watched Undisputed right there. That was like 20 minutes. No, Skip and Shannon don't agree at the end of the argument. Antoine Walker next. It was an interesting night in the NBA. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

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Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

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Tonight, the most electrifying player in the league is on Thursday night football. Lamar Jackson and the Ravens square off against the dolphins. It all starts at 7.30 Eastern. 4.30 Pacific on Fox, NFL Network, and streaming on. on Prime Video. Don't miss your chance to win $25,000 of Terry Bradshot's money on the Fox Bet Super

6 app. The Super 6 Thursday Night Football Jackpot has been hit four times already this season, and you could be next. Scan the QR code, download the app and answer six questions about tonight's game for your shot to win. Colin, one of the questions is who will win and by how many points? What do you think? Oh, Baltimore's the much better team, and they'd probably win by 7 to 10.

I think Baltimore's a way better team. You know what I think is interesting about this? is that it's a very reactionary league, right? A copycat league. So because Miami, let's take Arizona. Arizona had a quarterback one year in, rolled the dice, went to Kyler Murray, and now they're the number one team in the league.

Miami could have done that. They had the number three pick. They could have had Trey Lance. They could have had Justin Fields. They could have had Mack Jones. They didn't. They moved down, doubled down in a quarterback who didn't look apart.

So now what does that mean? That, I think, will affect teams going forward. So when something, I mean, Arizona could be Miami today, and Miami could very well be not maybe as good as there. Kyler Murray is really special. But Arizona went super aggressive. They've been rewarded. And Steve Kime and Cliff Kingsbury, if they still had Josh Rosen, would be out of work.

Now Greer and Flores, especially Greer, are in big trouble. because they didn't go get Justin Fields. Justin Fields with that bad old line would work. So what does that mean? So the interesting team to watch will be Philadelphia. So Jalen Hertz, there is something there, sort of like Tua. There's something there, but they have three of the top 15 picks. So I think Philadelphia looks at the Arizona-M-M-A-M-I-M-I-M-I-M-I-I-N-I-M-I-M-I-N-W-N-A-M-I-M-A-ROMI.

We may not get Kyler and end up as Arizona, but what we don't want to do is end up as Miami and be passive on it. So even if they kind of like Jalen Hertz, and there's some things to like, watch Philadelphia, watch that situation and go, I mean, it's just like in our business. If you watch somebody go in a direction and, you know, this. platform gets hot, we're like, oh, I should be on that platform. That platform works. Oh, that platform doesn't. So I do think that the Arizona risk, the Miami willingness to move out of the

quarterback where they could have Justin Fields, I think it's going to affect other teams that are on the bubble who have a quarterback. They kind of like they're just going to draft one. If they can get one, they're just going to do it for no other reason than job retainment. Like keep your game. Antoine Walker, three-time All-Star NBA chant with the heat, 12 years in the league. So I was watching Andrew Wiggins, and he does this every time he plays the Cavs or the T-Wolves, light up the world.

He drives me nuts because he's really talented. And then about six times a year, he's the best player in the league for a night. But I watch Golden State, and it's very interesting, Antoine. Clay is going to come back. They're not moving off Dremont. Steph is a star. Jordan Pools. They're not paying him anything.

He's very good. And then you watch Wiggins. And Joey and I were talking about this. I'm like, he does have nights when he does this. Now, many people consider Wiggins just a trade piece at the deadline. But I start looking around this league and I'm like, it's a shooter's league. What would you do with Wiggins? What do you think his future is with the Warriors?

I think he's a perfect fit for him because he's a guy that doesn't need a lot of shots to be effective. I think one thing Wiggins has done, if you've seen the transformation from this year to last year, he's bought into his role. He still shooting 35% for the 3, but he could be a great two-way player. I think the one thing that's really interesting on this run that go to the States or this tremendous start that they start up with,

is they're really good defensively. And he's a big part of that, with Draymond Green and Gary Payton the second. Those guys are really good defensive they can guard, but he's a perfect fit. Everybody's not an A-list start. I think because he got picked one in the draft, our expectations go really, really high.

for certain guys. But he's a guy that can play along stars, be a great contributor, be a great role player, and a great contributor to Steph and Clay. So I think he's in a great spot. I would keep him. Yeah, no, that's really interesting because we said this earlier. He has games like this and all you need, you know, you get one of those games of playoff series, and that's the difference between winning the series and losing it. So I got to ask you about the MJ Pippen stuff because, listen, I know Michael was difficult and Michael wasn't perfect. And, you know, players that liked him said he could be intolerable at times. He's punching teammates. He's

and Scotty's the greatest Robin ever. And I understand the MJ documentary. Michael had the final say. We all know it's going to be all. But I never felt when I watched the documentary. I never felt, wow, I'm being misled.

Like I got that Michael, the flu game. I got Jerry Krause. I got Pippin. Not like they ripped Pippin. They showed what Pippin was. When you watch the documentary, do you think Pippin has a point that it was really pro-Michael and everybody else was useless? Well, this is always tough to me because Scottie's a friend of mine.

Right. And I understand where he's coming from a little bit. Scotty wants the same respect that people give Michael. And, you know, for whatever reason, he doesn't feel like he gets that respect. And Michael had the microphone at that time. They're the last dance. It was the pandemic. Everybody was watching.

I mean, we were looking forward to watching this every week. and I just think it got blown out of proportion for Pip on that side because the game got highlighted that he should have went back in the game with the Tony Kucco situation. I think Pitt wanted everybody know he played hurt. He did the same things that Michael did. He made the same sacrifice. And now he gets his chance. But, Colin, everybody gets their chance to tell his side of the story. He's just doing his in the book and getting an opportunity.

You know, they say Michael made $10 million out of the last dance. So I guess, Scottie, like, let me see if I can. make $10 million off my book and tell my side of the story. Fair enough. You know, it's interesting. I watch the Celtics, and Jason Tatum to me is a number two on a championship team. He's a one and a good team, but not a championship team. I like Jalen Brown, but they need another piece.

They need another asset. And there are rumors that Ben Simmons is somebody they're interested in. He's a little indifferent for my taste. I like guys who love the game. not what the game provides for them, and I don't know if he loves the game. What do you make of the Celtics and the Simmons rumors?

Does it feel right to you? Could it work for you? It does not feel right. I'm in the same boat, what you call on this. I'm not sold on Ben Simmons. I'm a guy that believes that every year's going to be different. Obviously, every player strives

to be the best they can be. Hey, he had a tough playoff. He still was an all-star. He's one of the top players in his league. You bounce back. get in the gym, you figure it out. And obviously, he's a guy that doesn't want to get in the gym and figure it out. It's a problem.

He doesn't shoot jump shots. I'm not saying he has to make 10. We're just trying to get the guy to take a couple of them and be aggressive a little bit. And he doesn't want to do that. And the way he's handling this situation, I couldn't leverage my future if I was Boston to get him. He's just, I'm not in a place right now where I trust Ben and think that he's ready to step onto the big stage.

Because let me tell you something. Philly fans are tough. Boston fans are tough too. Boston is not the easiest place to play either. So they want guys that want to come in there and play and give you 110 percent. And that's something Ben is not willing to do. I would not leverage my future for them because Jaylon Brown is getting better year in and year out. He's improving every year. We know Jason Tatum can be a big time star in this league.

So I would not leverage my future for Ben Simmons right now. You know, it's fascinating. Years and years and years and years ago, the NBA, NBA changed rules because of Wilt Chamberlain. They made the lane bigger that you couldn't jump from the free throw line because Wilt was literally manipulating rules. And they made a couple of changes with Wilt. And the NBA had a hand check and then they got rid of a hand check.

Sports changed rules all the time. So with James Harden, the NBA is like, you're manipulating the rules. We're not letting you do that. Well, Antoine, he's not the same dude. And by the way, he's not a young kid. he's coming off an injury, he's 32, that's not a time when you can like alter or modify your game dramatically. Is it possible that the new James Hardin going forward is 18 a game and not 30

and four free throws a night, not 12? It's probably going to be more, I say 20 a night because he has the ball in his hands a lot and he is a very good three-point shooter. So I say 20 a night, but the nights of getting to the line 10 and 15 times are done. And these are moves and things that he's practiced over the last six, seven, eight years. So it's going to be very difficult for him to just say he could turn it on and off. So it's going to take some time. I think he'll get better as the season goes along.

I'm not sure how is he 100% because he doesn't really drive to the bass as much as he used to. That's right. So I'm a hamstring or him just trying to get his legs up on them. So we're saying some decline a little bit in this game, but he's going to have to figure it out. And I can say this for Brooklyn. They need him to be the James Hardin. If Kyrie Herb is not coming back, they need him to be the aggressive James Hardin

that gets 25, 30 a night because that's too much pressure on KD if he's not able to contribute like that. That's very, very happy. Yeah, and let's also be honest about this. Milwaukee's a bear. And so you can't just rely on Kevin Durant playing 46 minutes a night

and getting 17 out of Hardin because Milwaukee's the champ. This year they'll probably be just as deep and play with just as much confidence. Antoine, it's great seeing you. We're going to run now. but you're all, we love having you on the show and I appreciate it. All right, thanks for having me all.

Antoine Walker. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Kyler Murray was forced to miss last week's game against the 49ers with an ankle sprain

and they did quite well without him there, but he's optimistic that he'll be able to return this Sunday against the Panthers. Yesterday he said he's feeling much better and has made a lot of progress despite missing practice. But today he was once again

not seen on the field during the portion of practice that's open to the media. DeAndre Hopkins was also not at practice during that portion. Now they're 10.5 point favorites against the Panthers. Why not play Colt McCoy?

He just won in San Francisco. I would play Colt McCoy again if Kyler's not 100%. Why not? They played great against San Francisco. This is overall a great team. Now obviously you may be without DeAndre again as well.

And you don't want to ask too much of your backup and get, you know, get a little too crazy here. But it's more important to have Kyler healthy for the rest of the season. And also, I mean, if you go back and look at Colt McCoy's game, I'm not in any way insinuating he's Kyler. But he is a mover. So you can do a lot of the same things with Colt. Colt doesn't have Kyler's arm. But Colt's a mover. He's a smaller guy.

By the way, that's why they have him as the backup. He's a really good backup. He's grown up. He moves. You don't have to revamp the offense. Well, ideally, that's what you want in your backup. You want a lesser version of what your starting quarterback does, so you don't have to change your entire offense if they do have to come in for a few games.

Lamar had RG3. Baker has cased. Colts like he's got some of the traits. So I would just play Colt McCoy. I think you're going to go to Carolina, who by the way is a mess. Well, they just brought in Cam Newton. If you haven't heard, Cam Newton is back with Carolina. Yeah, I mean, 10 and a half points still feels like a lot,

but I would not rush Kyler Murray back. There's no value in that. You want to make sure that he is healthy for the rest of the season. So the Chiefs have won back-to-back games and seemed to be trending in the right direction, but the offensive production from the team, and especially Patrick Mahomes hasn't been what we've seen over the last couple years, but Mahomes says he's not going to stop trying to make big plays down the field. He said, I'm going to take shots.

The last few years I've taken those shots, they've worked. I've taken those shots and they haven't worked and we've still been able to find a way to score points whenever I've got a guy with a chance to make a play downfield, I'm going to give him a chance. Fuxbet has a chief's favorite by two and a half against the Raiders this weekend. Well, I will say this. I'd like to see him commit a little more to the run

but we also have to give teams credit. They've won the last two weeks. San Francisco was a favorite at home and got crushed. Rams were a favorite at home and got crushed. The bills lost the Jags. So we have to give Kansas City credit. They are winning football games in the NFL.

But you made this point, I think it was last week. Maybe it was this week. Everything's blowing together. But once you see something, it's hard to unsee it. We are used to seeing the chiefs play a certain way and Patrick Mahomes play a certain way. So even though they're winning, it's still kind of ugly. We want to see more from them.

And we want to see that high flying magic that Patrick Mahomes is talking about. I don't have a problem with this because shoot or shoot. Like this is what Patrick Mahomes does. He's leaned into it. It's been successful to his point. Sometimes it's not successful, but you can't just stop doing what you're great at because you're going through a slump. You've got to get out of that in some way.

So I don't have a problem with him saying he's going to keep taking it. Now, I'm with you. I do think you also want to take the easy stuff, take the stuff the defense is giving you. Don't force it because that is what has led to the obscene amount of turnovers, which you're putting your already struggling defense in a worse position. But this is a very important game for both of these teams this weekend. I'm with you.

Got to give them credit. But it's still hard to unsee what we've seen from the Chiefs the past couple years in that kind of production. And also now the division is pretty feisty. Yeah. So the NFL season has reached the halfway point. And Daniel Jeremiah ranked the top rookie performances so far. Here's top 12.

See what you think about these. Michael Parsons is one. Jamar Chase. two, Roshan Slater three, Kyle Pitts and Mac Jones run up the top five. Javonte Williams, Creed Humphrey. Denver. Yeah. Just another good offensive

player. Well, he has two in the top 12. I know. Jemante Williams and Patrick Sartan at 12. Denver teams got talent. You guys mocked me for putting them four. I'm not saying they're four, but they're Tampa before Brady. I think they've got a lot of talent. They're very young. They've got some good pieces.

I just, I personally, me, Joy Taylor, am not trading Russell Wilson unless he comes into the office and looks me in the face and says I will never play another down for this team ever again. And he does and Denver gives you five ones and Patrick Sertain. Yeah, well, I mean, if he does and he forces my hand. So yes, I will, I mean, I don't think that Denver's going to part ways with Patrick Sartan, but I, then I'm in a different situation. But if it's like we got to work things out or I need this or I need that, what do you need? Here's a blank check. Ryan, why are you laughing at my suggestion? that is a very viable trade.

There's no. I am not trading Russell. I am not trading a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterback in his prime. I'm not doing it. I will not do it. I think it's a poor decision too. You have to make me do it. Force me.

Otherwise it is not even a conversation. It is such a big gap between the teams that have their guy and the teams that don't. And you are not going to put me in that position unless I absolutely have to be. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. All sorts of stuff today.

We just, new ground today, arguing about real estate for 15 minutes. We are a solution show. That's what we're all about here. Journalism. We're not about complaining, whining. Like the chew on stuff. Yeah, it's like we're looking for the answer on this stuff. This show is journalism.

Solutions is the new theme for our show. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. I'm George Reister, host of the Reister or Wrong podcast. This is the intersection where sports, business, society, and pop culture meet the truth. Absolute fire on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Facts only. Make sure you check your feelings at the door because no BS is allowed. Keep it 100.

This is where real conversations happen. Listen to the Rights or Wrong podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes, a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle

growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say it. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about

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and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the look I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, literally. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and

conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions. bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Escape QuickBooks, QuickBooks, QuickSand with NetSuite by Oracle. Go to NetSuite.com slash heard right now, number one financial system. All right, Joey, we're going to play. Spurn or Return? give me these quarterbacks on the bubble. And should the teams spurn move off them or bring them back? Spurn or return? The Dolphins and Tuatung of Aloa. I would spurn. I would move off him less than 200 yards passing in almost half of his starts. So I don't get the big arm. I don't get the athletic ability. He may miss his 11th start tonight, but I'm not getting an upside. Carson

Wentz had injuries, but when he's healthy, I feel like I get a big upside. Deshawn Watson, you know, I always worry about some injuries, but I get a big playmaker. I'm getting not ready to play, and when he does, I don't get any big plays. Should the Steelers bring Big Ben back next season? Spurn. He's a free agent. You can move off him. Now, you should have a better succession plan, but he's averaging 4.6 yards, air yards per completion. Folks, That's dink and dunk. That's 32 out of 33 quarterbacks. And they have like receivers who can get open.

Now, the offensive line's not great, but they have the lowest scoring offense for a team with a winning record. What does that tell you? They've got players here. What they don't have is a viable quarterback. How about the Colts and Carson Wentz? Return. To me, he's not the issue. I mean, let's be honest about this.

He has six games with multiple touchdowns. passes and no interceptions. That's tied for the most in the NFL. Now, when he's bad, it is awful. And he has struggled against Tennessee. But that's been the exception. I think he's viable. He's big. He's athletic. Clearly he and Frank Reich work. So I don't think it's crazy third, fourth, fifth round to maybe draft a quarterback and develop him based on his injury history, but I'd bring him back absolutely. How about the Eagles and Jalen Hertz? Well, I said, I want to see him the rest of the year, but I would, I think I'd spurn.

Here's why. So he's four and nine as a starter. That's not where I'm judging him. Here's what worries me. He has not completed more than 18 passes in his last four games. So as people get more and more and more and more film on him, he's not completing a lot of throws. And according to the film, the coach is in Philadelphia.

are watching. They don't trust him to make those big throws. So my issue with him is it's a little like Drew Breeze. Like Drew didn't throw the deep ball late, but you got so much accuracy and so much experience in Moxie, you were still viable. So I'm not getting that because he's a kid. Plus, I don't get the over-the-top stuff. Eagles have two picks top 10, potentially 315. I think you've got to take one of those in a quarterback. The Giants, should they bring back Daniel Jones? It's not easy, but Here's why I would say return. A big strong kid who can throw. This year, nobody's healthy.

Andrew Thomas left tackle. Tony, Barkley, Evan Ingram, Galdane, the offense, a mess. And I will say this. What was his big flaw? His turnovers were outrageous. Eight giveaways this year.

He led the NFL with 39. So he had a James Winston issue. With James, he just never cut it down. So Daniel has gotten rid of the number one liability. He has made a concerted effort, and he has improved in the area which was outrageously awful, which is turnovers. What Darnold can't get better at. What James can't get better.

Daniel stopped turning the ball over. So I give him another year. Bring him back. How about the Lions and Jared Gough? Again, I would return him. First of all, you're not paying him a ton because the Rams are paying him. Here's the other thing because their record is bad. you all want to say he can't play.

He's completing 67% of his throws this year. He's a tall kid that when the pocket's not muddy, they don't have good wide receivers. They lost Gala Day. They don't really have a number one. He has a 90 plus passer rating in five of his eight starts. This team's got a lot of issues. I can make an argument.

He's not one of the primary issues. And again, what's out there? It's not a great quarterback class. So to me, fortify the O line. go get a receiver on the market. Like, go pay for a receiver. You're not paying for all a golf's contract. Go pay for a receiver.

Should the Panthers bring back Sam Darnold next season? Spurn. Love him. Now, he's on pace for his fourth year with a completion percentage under 60. So he's always had a quirky motion. That's never been disputed. I loved him, and I didn't love his throwing motion. He is not an easy thrower. Now you've got, it's not the first time he's been hurt.

Like Sam has been hurt multiple times now. He is reckless. You can't coach it out of him. Either with injuries or picks, it's time to move on. Should the Browns bring back Baker Mayfield? Give me one more month. They play the Patriots, the Lions, and the Ravens twice. I am leaning return because there is a number that is very important.

He averages 13 yards per completion in the NFL. That is a huge number. So what does that mean? The way this offense is built, they run the football, they suck you in, they suck you, they suck you in. And then Baker delivers over the top. His arm strength is not his issue. So I see a formula with Baker.

And right now, he's cut down the awful throws, mostly. The formula I think is working. I think they'll have a very good second half. But the formula is pretty clear. We run the ball. we pull you in and then Baker goes 13 yards per completion.

That is a big, big number. There's no dink and dunk here. Baker can drive me crazy. He'll air it out. So I am leaning return. But I do want to see now he plays his contemporary Mac Jones, a young guy, then he plays Lamar twice.

Let's just watch the last month. After that second Ravens game, I will make a strong, I'll have conviction on Baker. here Mayfield. See, that's the kind of fairness you get. And I also offered a solution. Go three of four, win three of four, and then you come back.

Yeah. Well, we have until Thanksgiving to make a determination on Daniel Jones. That was the rule. That was a rule. Right now, I lean return. First ever national check your wiper day, November 16th, Michelin Wipers. Right now to enter. Could win a trip to New York. Go to wipersday.com.

No purchase necessary. All right. We'll see you tomorrow. Ravens Dolphins tonight. It's the Hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the Eye Heart. Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kare Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing.

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