The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - The best for last

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

More on the Thunder winning game 2 of the WCF The Knicks need to win tonight after their tragic loss in game of the ECF Doug saves the best for last   Guest: Marc Stein   #douggottliebshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. How are Doug Gottlieb in for Colin? This is The Hurd. On Fox Sports Radio, the Iheart radio app. Welcome, welcome, welcome aboard.

We got about an hour left till my show, Doug Gottlieb show, takes air here on Fox Sports Radio. Let's get into last night's game. Because, you know, the Knicks take the floor tonight after what was an absolute epic and complete choke job. And again, I don't, Colin, it was, Colin has, is brilliant in the simplicity of how he does what he does. And I don't think that Colin takes a cue from anybody and decides to be a contrarian. I'm the same.

If I'm a contrarian, it's because I have a contrary opinion, not because I'm a contrarian. But Colin is the guy who yesterday said what you heard on the intro. Hey man, the Knicks just made a bunch of shots. I mean, the Pacers just made a bunch of shots. Knicks didn't play poorly. Like, yeah, they missed two free throws. They turned the basketball over. And they didn't defend Aaron Neesmith for several of those shots.

Like, you can't allow a great catch-and-shoe shooter to get open catch-and-shoot shots on little handoffs and not be there. Like, yeah, they choked that one. Is any choke helped by great plays? Yeah. or any great comeback help by chokes. Yes, they do work in concert with each other. So we'll get to foreshadowing forecasting for that game. Let's look back at last night.

Last night, Oklahoma City. So game one, the wolves lead at the half. And in the second half, completely different shade guilt is Alexander. Anthony Edwards doesn't score a point in the fourth quarter. and while they trailed in half, run the second half, and the game was over. Yesterday was obviously a celebration of Shea Gildesis Alexander receiving his MVP award before the game.

And here's, here's Shea talking about balancing fun and competing. We just prioritize what matters. And like we've come to realize that you win games and all that other stuff comes after. And it's, you guys saw it last night with me. myself and Lou and Dubb today getting a recognition. When you win games and you do it together and you have fun out there, everything else, all the individual stuff you want, it comes with it.

But it starts with taking care of business on a basketball court and we know that. Here's Mark Dagnot, who's their head coach. Talk about Shay's impact on the game. And I thought he led tonight just with his approach and his force and his blend. You know, he threw great passes down the stretch. You know, the attacks Nick was talking about. You know, I thought he had a good blend of attacks and early passes and he kept the scoreboard moving for us down the stretch.

Here's Chris Finch Wool's head coach, talking about the difficulty in scheming against the MVP. Yeah, obviously, you know, Shay's a handful to contain. You know, he's getting around us to, you know, to when there's contact, he's getting around us. And, you know, we've got to do a better job of squaring him. Squaring him, I mean, got to keep him in front.

Once he gets on your hip, that's when he gets you on his hip, that's when he can glean India, cut off angles, make you foul him, throw his hands up, heads back, throw the ball up and or just you know pivot and you go kind of flying by like he he's amazing at his use of angles there's a little james hardin in terms of his foul merchantry there's a little cobi bright in terms of his footwork and understanding of angles and cutting into guys um there's

there's a lot there's also a lot of Kobe in terms of the footwork as well like the pivoting it there's parts of it which are incredible to watch it's just hard with that them falling down all the time. And what I think is sort of missing, one is defensively how the Thunder are scheming, where they're playing much more of a college style. It's called, you know, they're just loading to the ball, which means they're over into the gaps, deep into the gaps and to help, daring you, not just to make that easy pass next to you, that pass doesn't really, but daring you to get a dribble and then skip that ball to the

weak side corner or the weak side low wing, right, where now all of a sudden you, have a harder closeout. And the counter last night for the wolves was they put Anthony Edwards in the post, which helps some, but he's not really a post player. It's not really what he does. He's a downhill attack guy, which means you have to skip the ball to him and then let him get downhill attack and then give him the answers, knowing where the questions are going to be posed to him.

But I think the bigger thing is that there's nothing unlikeable about the Oklahoma the city thunder, right? There's nothing really unlikable about them. I mean, tell me what it is. They've put together this team. You know, Shea was a big piece, but just a piece of the Paul George trade. You know, they've drafted well, they developed, they've added some really smart pieces, but nobody crazy.

They obviously value Alex Caruso, who helped the Lakers win a championship and then was just mired in difficult seasons with the Chicago. Bulls and he's become kind of their defensive energy and stalwart here in the playoffs. Plus he's got that championship experience. There's nothing like. It's just it's not a great watch when the best player is constantly falling down and constantly drawing fouls. Constantly. And the difference is probably that we see it more clearly now.

It's a lot like officiating. People can say a fish yang's worse now than it's ever been. But what's the reality to it? The reality to it is we see the calls way more clearly now. You know, you remember the first time you watched H.D. TV? You remember that? Remember when I think it was ESPN was like the first sports network? I was working there at the time.

And they came out with ESB and H.D. And you flip over, we're like, man, that looks so much better. You go back to standard death. You're like, how did we survive on this for 50, 40 years? And with the much better technology, more cameras, more slow-mo, you're like, even that, have you guys seen the replay of the Halliburton 3 where he dribbles? It looks like he was grabbed twice, but then he double dribbles and then back dribbles back for a three.

Like even that, those are three things I didn't know happen if not for that slow motion and camera angle. I had no idea. And I was watching the game in real time. think anything of it. So I bring that up to point out that it's not that guys didn't draw fouls before. Michael Jordan drew a ton of fouls. Magic Johnson drew a ton of fouls. Larry Bird drew a ton of fouls. It's that it's one thing to draw fouls, to draw contact, to jump into guys, to absorb contact on drives, to get smacked on drives. It's a whole other thing to grab somebody else's arm,

lock it in with your arm and then as you go to shoot throw up your arm which is then contacted by his arm because it's stuck kind of in your bread basket if you will and get fouled like that's free throw merchantry

free throw artistry that no one has seen at this level and it's way way way more obvious now with replays with with the best of the best of the cameras with all the different camera angles Now you're like, yeah, this is hard to watch. Hard to watch.

And battle fouls have occurred for years. Years. Years. But now it's just way more obvious. And it takes a really likable bunch that honestly is winning because their defense, more their offense. That seems to like each other. This seems to not take life all that serious. Like, they check the boxes for all the things you want.

But their best player constantly falling down and ending up at the free to line. It's just one of those like you. I get it, but I don't love it. I don't love it. I don't love it. You know, we do have a sense of, like, manliness with our drives and our fouls and the sense that, like, playoff fouls. But, I mean, we went from Hardin constantly throwing his head back and getting calls and not getting them in the playoffs to Shea Gildes-Alexander, literally cutting in front of people, purposely tangling their legs. falling down, locking in their arms, drawing vows, and us getting annoyed by it.

This is all new. This is his first time being the MVP. This is their first time in the conference finals with this group. All of this is new. And yet, I would guess that this is going to be, in addition to the fact that it's Oklahoma City, it's just not that great a watch. It's just not that great a watch. whereas the Pacers Knicks series,

and this is even before the Pacers came back in one, just the way in which the Pacers play, the frenetic pace, the number of possessions, and fewer fouls because of, you know, foul merchantry. And don't get me wrong, Jalen Brunson, he draws a lot of fouls. He does bang into guys and fall over. He doesn't do the lock-in arms. the way that Shea Gildes-Alexander does.

But that, a better watching product. That's a better product. So you can hear what Chris Finch is saying. Hey, don't let him get you on his hip, keep him in front, square him up. They can't call fouls that way, but it's frustrating. And his head coach saying, look, the best thing he did was pass tonight. But I would say that that Shay is, you know, the bigger the stage, the better he's got to play. but the more obvious it's going to be

that so much of his success is based upon his ability to get to the free-to-line. That has to be a benefit of how good you are, not you can't benefit from the free-thal-line to be that good. I think that's, I think there's where the disconnect is. He's great at what he does, and he seems like an awesome dude.

But as somebody who coaches and has watched and evaluated basketball for 25 years, yeah, that's a hard one to watch. And again, when we're recruiting, we like that, volume of free throws. You get in there and do you avoid or do you go to contact? There's a difference in going to contact and creating artificial contact

in order if there would be any contact to get a foul. That's where you kind of draw the line. All right, coming up next in The Hurt, I'm Doug Gottlieb. When someone is waiting on you and they say, well, wait a little longer. How do you react? More importantly, how will Aaron Rogers react? We'll discuss next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide. range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and Headwere writer Streeter Seidel, help an

a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call

changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Live 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis.

And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen should win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Doug Gottliebend for Cohn. It's the Hurt. Fox Sports Radio.

Iheart Radio app. Mark Stein is going to join us after we get to Herdline news. Of course, long-time NBA reporter and insider he publishes a substack called Steinline. We'll get to get to that upcoming. Jay Sue, what up is down, day is night, black is white, the angels have won seven games in row, including sweeping your Dodgers? Is that what's happened here in baseball? I mean, is that our baseball update?

That makes no sense at all. It happened. And Angels are kind of having a weird season, right? They started off hot. I want to say they were in first place after a couple weeks. Then they played like the Angels. And then, yeah, they lose Trout and they've won seven in a row, including sweeping the Dodgers.

I think Dodger fans could take solace that will likely won back-to-back championships. But losing three in a row of the Angels, that's a tough pill to swallow. It's got to be a tough pill. as well. And then the Rockies are a team. Again, I challenge people to name a current Colorado Rocky. They're off to the worst start, what, in the history of baseball through 50 games, right? They've won eight, eight and 42. Yep. Yeah. And imagine being a Rockies fan. Like, I know we're on in Denver. I actually can imagine this one. This one I can imagine. It is not, it's like imagine. No, no, no, don't have to imagine.

I know the feeling. It sucks. And again, I don't think they were designed to be good, but I'm sure there's some of that when things go wrong. They just all go wrong. He was like, ah, just get it all in, right? But man, you're talking historically bad with, I mean, it's like baseball. It should even out.

You should be at least decent, you know, win one game in a series where they don't take it seriously. But that's a crazy one. considering the consistency that the Rockies had in terms of success once they kind of figured it out to now being just dormant in terms of success the last five or so years. All right, Mark Stein in a second. We'll also talk some Brock Purdy later on the show, but let's get to Heard Line News. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the Heard Line News. Doug, Steelers owner, Art Rooney, must be sick of this question. Remember, back in April, when he was asked about Aaron Rogers, he said that the team would, quote, not wait forever. So recently he was asked by ESPN, same question. And Art Rooney says, we'll wait a little longer, a little while longer. Now, how do you, what do we do with this? Because I think Mark Dominic last hour just told you that you want Rogers around for OTAs.

I think that's starting June 5th. So what transpires here over the next five days? I mean, it's just got to be like, are you coming? You know, it's the invite to the party that you had to invite somebody because they are the life of the party or they used to be the life of the party. and he got invited if you don't invite him and they're like, I'll let you know

I got a really busy schedule. I just for an organization like the Steelers that I think partly trade away George Pickens because they didn't like entitlement they want a guys

that are more part of the team more part of culture to wait on Aaron Rogers and I'm not somebody who tells you that Aaron Rogers is terrible for the culture but just the way in which he's handling it where a lot of

lack of decisiveness and not a, hey, I'm going to be a stealer. I'm going to be there when I'm there, you know, whatever. It's just very anti-stealer. And it just shows their desperation for a quarterback, especially one who even at the end of his career, like an Aaron Rogers, in comparison to what they've been throwing out there. I want to give Caitlin Carr credit here. She is so relevant that she has risen to the level of being an item on Herline News.

Last night, the fever went into Atlanta in spoilt. their home opener. I know most people don't care about that part. Caitlin Clark went an entire game without making a three for the first time since 22. That's significant. But the most,

I guess the most viral part of this game last night was Atlanta Dreams Ryan Howard confronted Caitlin Clark, mid-court and gave a little shove. And then Caitlin Clark looks like she's saying, I'm not afraid of you.

I'm not scared of you. I'm not scared of you. Honestly, this is kind of right of passage, basketball, whatever. They're trying to punker. They're trying to punker. And she's not going to let it happen. She didn't play great. But that's what, I mean, that's what all generations do to the young up-encummers, right?

It's the, was it Cole Hamils who threw it somebody? He was just like, yeah, I just don't like the way he is approach. I remember, you know, it doesn't matter if you're the young. up-and-coming hitter to people like to buzz the tower, or if you're the quarterback, that guys, you know, might, might hit a little bit harder or hold that block a little bit longer in football, whatever. It's kind of normal right of passage with basketball.

And the other part to it is, again, this is where it's normal to me. I'm pretty sure people aware. I am a white basketball player from Orange County, California. When you would play L.A. teams, doesn't have to be black kids, to be white kids as well. They would try and punk you because you were from Orange County. You were seen as soft. I don't think she's seen as soft,

but people are trying anything they can to rattle her. And I think that's what this was the case of last night, just trying to rattle the young and trying to physical her up. And it worked to limited success, but didn't work overall as they lost the game. Final item here. David Falk, for those that don't know, he was Michael Jordan's agent, a longtime agent out of D.C., but it looks like he's entered the hot take space this week. Yes. His quote about LeBron and the goat conversation.

I really like LeBron, but I think if Jordan had cherry-picked what teams he wanted to be on or with two other superstars, he would have won 15 championships. Mike dropped, David Falk. Yeah, I guess that's a mic drop. That's a lot. I don't know about 15 championships, but it is interesting on how we sit here now and act like Michael Jordan played on super teams. Okay. Okay, if we're honest with ourselves, Michael Jordan's first championship team,

They had Bill Cartwright. They traded Charles Oakley for Bill Cartwright. Do you know what Bill Cartwright's nickname was in New York, Jason Stewart? Medical Bill Cartwright. I thought you would love that name. That's like right up your alley. Medical Bill Cartwright. So they had Bill Cartwright.

They had John Paxon. Craig Hodges came out of the bench. They had a young Scotty Pippin. And Scottie Pippin became an all-time great player. during his first championship run, he went an all-time great, man. He was young and people had thought Scottie was soft. Horace Grant was their power forward. Right?

That's their team. That's their team. He won't look longly at center. These are not great, all-time great players. The point is that you can say what you, some people will say, hey, Jordan played against a wateredown league because they had the expansion. It's not inaccurate. but you would also point out that let's not act like Jordan's teammates

were all-time greats who he joined in their prime to win a championship. Scotty Pippin, you know, was slightly younger than him. They grew up together, he became a great player. Robin was, had been a great player elsewhere, and joined them. Other than that, there wasn't,

I mean, Ron Harper was a shell of his former self since tearing his knee when he was a great scorer in Cleveland. So I actually, agree with the sentiment of David Falk, even if I don't really agree with the delivery of he win 15 titles. And clearly, anytime you say, oh, I like LeBron, you know that's like saying no disrespect, but, and there's disrespect coming. And that's Jason Stewart with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. Hey, let's get another opinion

in here. Mark Stein writes a substack called... we're going to get Mark Stein in a second. Going to get Mark Stein a second. Yeah, I mean, I actually enjoy those discussions about Jordan just because, again, I'm not trying to disrespect Jason McIntyre, but Jay Max's younger. He wasn't, he and Nick Wright, they weren't really old enough to have lived through as basketball people, those eras. And you can quote stats all you want, but when you've lived it, you understand it.

Now, you could point out that there were other teams that weren't super teams as well. That's fine, you know. You could point out that when they won their first title, right, that was after, that was after Kareem had retired. And it was kind of a new Laker team led by Magic Johnson, but not one of the great ones. And they, you know, as much as we want to say, he went through Charles Barkley. and Charles Barclay's team was great. That was at the end of the three Pete. The point is that, again, I don't know why David Falk got into the hot take thing,

and of course, he's supporting his guy Michael Jordan, but he's not wrong. Jordan's team wasn't a super team until after they won all those games. Mark Stein joins us. Of course, he writes the Steinline, it's a substack. I would encourage anybody who cares anything about basketball to read the substack called the Steinline because it's really good. Mark joins us now in the herd.

on Fox Sports Radio. Mark, let me ask you about last night. How is Shea viewed in the league as now I think mainstream fandom is finally starting to watch his games and some are calling him a James Hardin type of foul merchant? Well, look, he won the MVP this week.

They had the ceremony before game two and I don't think he could have delivered a better statement of validation about winning that award. And look, it was not a unanimous vote. It was pretty lopsided in his favor. But 7129 in terms of first place vote for MVP, but I think a lot of people who watch the league

and maybe even didn't have a vote would tell you that, you know, it should have been Yokic, but I don't think he could have been much more impressive, you know, gets the trophy and then goes out. and backs it up with that kind of game. And look, it's in this postseason,

especially with all the comebacks we've seen, I don't think we want to prematurely put the thunder in the finals before they actually clinch it, but they just won the first two games in really resounding fashion. And the way Shea Gildedis Alexander has played in this series and the way his teammates all rally around him, support him, fit next to him, they have a very good thing going that I think you would have to say

it's pretty much the envy of the league right now because remember this is still such a young team. I mean, Caruso is their oldest key contributor in East 31. I mean, this is just the beginning for what this team is capable of. And right now, if you had to say, if you had to pick a favorite to win the title from here, it has to be the thunder. Okay, Anthony Edwards has struggled through two games.

Let's assume he has at least one really good game, but that he struggles throughout the series. What do we do with Anthony Edwards watching him struggle now deep in the playoffs? Look, I don't think we have to do anything. Maybe that's just the way it is, that people will change the way they look at him. Look, I've been a big Timberwolf fan this season. I thought they were. outside of Indiana, the most underrated team in the league. They have not been able to show it in these first two games. They haven't been able to keep up with the thunder. Worse than that, they look like they're getting frustrated by the thunder.

And again, 2-0 is not insurmountable, but NBA history tells us when you go down 2-0, it is really hard to come back and win a seven-game series. And the big concern that I think everyone had about the wolves coming into this series was would they be able to score against this defense that is considered the league's best and the league's most versatile? And they're having all the trouble that their fans and their coaches, their deepest fears are being realized in terms of trying to manufacture offense against this team.

I mean, if that's held against Anthony Edwards, I mean, I heard you mentioning Charles Barkley at the beginning just before I came on, as Charles Barkley always loves to tell us, and remind us. The stars get all the blame and all the credit in the NBA. That's always the way it is. So I guess people will pin this on Anthony Edwards if the wolves can't turn this series around. But I would also say the wolves are in the conference finals two years in a row. In the first 34 years of their franchise history, they did it once.

And in the first 34 years of their franchise history, they only won a series in the playoffs. one. They won two series the year that KG led them to the West finals. That's it in terms of one series for this franchise before these past two seasons. So again, Anthony Edwards is still very very young and if people want to change their opinion about them, go ahead. But I think the wolves are a good team that is up against the team. Look, if you look at what the Thunder did in the regular season, just if you look at their point differential, it's the most

impressive point differential we've ever seen from a team in the regular season and all the teams they pass at the top of that list won championship. So the thunder are supposed to be doing what they're doing in this series. I actually was worried and they lost me a little bit struggling with such a limited Denver team, but they have clearly used that experience and winning game seven in resounding fashion as a great springboard and made anybody who doubt of them, and I guess I have to throw myself on that list, look pretty dumb. How would you characterize the Pacers winning game one? I mean, on one hand, you would say they've done it multiple times in this postseason,

but not like that. And, I mean, a 14-point deficit with less than three minutes to go. It's just unheard of. It was unheard of when the Cavs had a seven-point lead with 48 seconds to go, and the Pacers found a way to win that game. Now, it sure did look, it sure did look like Halliburton got away with something on that,

on that, on the buildup to his three, man, that's just, that's a comeback for the ages. I don't know if we've ever seen anything quite like that. No, nine with,

nine with 51 seconds, 52 seconds ago, I've never, I've never, I've never seen that. How do the Knicks, you tell me as a coach, I,

Listen, no, I'm just going to, it was, we, we, we, we drop one last game of the year. It was 14, but it was less than, it was more minutes. It was four and change or five in change or something, up five with 18 seconds to go. And they shoot airball, kick it out, make a three. They press us, we go along, try to get a dunk, they foul us, make one out of two, we foul us, they get a rebound on an intentionally miss free throw and put it in, and we lose an over. time. So I've seen it. I just, I think that I think that the knee-smith threes and the fact that the Knicks seem to kind of fall asleep there, right? They were, you know, like, O.G. and an Obie, like,

didn't even close out on two of those threes. And you're like, all right. I mean, I guess the game's over, but it wasn't. So the question is, you know, it's, it's like Boston. Hey, you did enough to be up 14 with under, under four to go. So you, you play better, you looked better. But, what's the likelihood that they bounce back from that sort of devastation? And look, I think our instinct when a team loses a game like that is to write them off and say, okay, they're, you know, they'll never recover from that. That is just such, that loss leaves such a scar that it will be impossible to recover from the only consolation that the Knicks can point to at this point is that it's so early in

the series. And, you know, they've had a great postseason run. look, I mean, they have to win this series validate their run. I mean, look, they were tremendous the game that Tate suffered the just horrendous

Achilles rupture. I mean, the Knicks were on their way to winning that or that injury happened, so they would have gone up 3-1 anyway, maybe from that position, even if Tatum, even if that doesn't happen, maybe the Knicks win the series anyway. So they took out the defending champ, but

are down now, I can't imagine where they'll be, if they actually lose this series and this opportunity to get to the NBA finals. We obviously everybody knows this is a franchise that's been desperate to win for more than 50 years. Indiana has been a lights out team since January 1. I mean, if you look at records since the calendar flipped to 2025, even before these playoffs, record-wise, the Pacers were right there with the 360-win teams. I mean, they have been a different team, and they have been a top five. team in the league since January 1st and in the playoffs have only gotten better with this

repeated ability to win games that NBA history and NBA math tell us they should not be winning. I mean, I thought coming in, I actually picked the Pacers going into the series because Brunson, to me, is the best player in this series. He is the best player left in the East, but I just think the Pacers have a more well-rounded team. And, yeah, I mean, to see, it's going to be fascinating to see just psychologically how they bounce back. I think the psych, yeah, the psychology

is the most most interesting part. Let me go around the league really quickly. So, is Janus staying? Is that, do we, do we know he wants to stay for sure? Still don't have a firm indication on what he wants. Around the league, I think everyone is still expecting him to say

that he wants to trade, but to be clear, that has not happened to our knowledge. And the bucks throughout this process, no matter what the rest of the league is hoping for, the bucks have clung to hope that Janice's very deep ties to Milwaukee been there 12 years. I mean, that's what's crazy.

It's hard to believe that Janus is already 30 and has been a buck for 12 seats. I mean, it's crazy how fast this stuff goes. I mean, so, The league is wishing, hoping, and praying for one thing. We're all waiting for a firm declaration. But to this point, we don't have it. And it does kind of hold things up because if he comes on, you know, teams want to be ready for whenever it is that he theoretically could emerge as a trade target.

And I think even as good as Kevin Durant is, and we're talking about our future Hall of Famer, I think even Kevin Durant's trade prospects will be, you know, the Yana situation has to play out first. What about the Celtics? They have incredibly tough decisions financially. The expectation certainly is that they're going to be active to some degree because obviously they're not going to have Tatum next season or if they do,

it's going to be very, very late in the season. And so had they won again, okay, had they won again, you could say, right, it's going to be $500 million to keep this team together for one more year. But if you've won two titles in a row, you can talk yourself into, okay, we just have to deal with that payroll and luxury tax check, those figures. But if you're not going to have Tatum for a year, they have to shed payroll. And the two contracts that everyone is looking at around the league, Porzingis has an expiring deal next season.

It's almost $31 million. True Holiday has three years and more than $100 million left. on his deal. I mean, we reported this week on my substack, Jake Fisher, who writes twice a week for me. He reported this, that the buzz around the leagues already, that Boston might have to attach something

as a trade sweetener to move off True Holiday's contract because as good as True Holiday is, as proven as he is as a title-winning difference maker with two different teams. He's part of title teams in Milwaukee and Boston, but

at his age and with the number that is still left on his deal, Boston might have to attach something to move off that salary, which makes it even less palatable for the Celtics. So there's no question that on your list of things to keep track of this summer, I think it starts with Janus, Durant, but Boston and what they do, it's certainly up there. Did the draft lottery save Nico? It does appear in the short term that it has. There's been no indication. of any looming change, the Mavericks are going to draft Cooper flag.

There's no doubt about that. And so, you know, it's, it is, it is all, it is still in Dallas a weird vibe because they're obviously, fans are obviously happy beyond belief to win the lottery, a franchise that has never even moved up in the lottery

and knows nothing but draft lottery misery. There's, undeniably happiness and joy and relief to have something good happen after three rough months, but there is still a lot of anger and dismay with the franchise, not just training Luca Dantje's away, but the way that it went down. So I can't wait for Summer League. Like, I, I, I'm going to, it's going to be really interesting to me just to kind of see what the reaction is from the fans when, you know, Cooper flag is playing, you know, maybe he, you know,

I think Wemby played two games when he came into Summer League, so you'd like to think Cooper Fag will play a game or two for the Maverick Summer League team. Like, there will be a lot of excitement, but, you know, it's still a fan base going through it on a lot of levels. Mark, you're the best, bud. Really appreciate you join us. Look forward to reading your next substack. It's called the sign line.

Check it out on Substack. Mark, thanks so much for joining us on Foxport Radio. Sounds good. Talk soon. All right. That's the one and only other Cal State Fortin Titan on the radio today. Mark Stein, longtime NBA reporter and insider. Coming up next, I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd.

This is the herd. Brock Purdy thinks he's the top 10 quarterback. Does anyone else think that? We'll discuss next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's Steve Kavino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Kavino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.

You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on 5. Fox Sports Radio and of course the I Heart Radio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything, life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world? We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture. Stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out.

We like to get you involved too. Take your phone calls, chop it up as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino & Rich live on Fox Sports Radio on the IHeart Radio app from 5 to 7 p.m. Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich, wherever you get your podcast and, of course, on social media. That's Coveino and Rich. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news?

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast

where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy,

not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer-beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports slice brings you closer to the action. with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenschen went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. What up? Doug Gottlieven for Collins to heard, Fox Sports Radio. IHeart Radio app. Welcome in. Hope you're getting ready to have a great Memorial Day weekend. Great.

Memorial Day weekend. Before we get you ready for our best for the effort, let me play for you. This is Brock Purdy. Of course, to sign his new contract last week. Here's Brock Pretty on K&BR in San Francisco. He had this to say. Are you a top 10 quarterback in the NFL? Yeah, no, I think for sure I'm a top 10 quarterback.

You know, I'll leave it at that. I'm not going to, you know, create a list or anything right now. Okay, so let's create a list with our best for last. It's almost the end of the show, but that doesn't mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind to the very last segment. It's time for best for last. Okay, so we're taking this from Pro Football Focus, PFF. They have their first-tier quarterbacks as Mahomes, Borough, Lamar Jackson,

Josh Allen. So that doesn't include Jaylen Hertz who just won a Super Bowl, play well on both Super Bowl's that he was in. But I think it's fair to go, hey, he's benefited from great defense, great running game. For some reason, again, and maybe this is something we need to change because it's even part of my own evaluation. We, and when I say we, I say most people who are yakers, not necessarily NFL analysts.

and I think NFL analysts are probably guilty of this, but I don't want to lump them on there. I think we do a bad job of not allowing rushing plays and rushing yards to be part of the decision, right? Because, again, we've all been told, hey, if you want to win a Super Bowl, you've got a winner from the pocket. You do, but you don't.

Anyway, PFF has high-end starters as Jalen Hertz, Jaden Daniels, Matt Stafford, Justin Herbert. Okay, this is your top eight, if you will. And now is when it gets interesting. They put Jared Gough in there, in their solid starters who have flashed high-end play. Jared Gough, Gino Smith, Brock Purdy, as that group. And then solid starters, but they need more help,

Jordan Love, Baker, Mayfield, C.J. Stroud, Caller Murray, and Trevor Lawrence. So those are your top 16 quarterbacks in the NFL. And I think most of us would go like, yeah, I'm okay if you take Gino out of there. Right? That would put Bertie squarely at 10. Now, if you said Jordan Love has maybe more talent, sure, but he turns the ball over.

More touchdowns, but more interceptions. Tyler Murray scrambles around, runs around, and has a better arm than Purdy, but doesn't make better decisions. Baker Mayfield also kind of smaller, whatever, coming off a great year. C.J. Stroud had a great year and a bad year. I think Purdy is one of those guys where we, we talk. so much about tangibles, tangibles, how big

you are, how strong your arm is. He is a guy who his intangibles are stronger than his tangibles. But his tangibles aren't so bad that he can't throw football. You know, it's not like Tim Tebow. It's just when they have guys that are injured, he doesn't seem like nearly the same guy.

If you're going to ask me, is the top 10 quarterback? I would say probably not. Is he good enough to win with? The answer is yes. And while, I think, most of us are like that's a lot of money for Brock Purdy. The general thought in the NFL is, hey, devil you know is better than devil you don't. If you got one, lock them in, keep them as long as you can because they're just really hard to find.

Really hard to find. Really hard to find. Beach or Lake this weekend, Jay Stu. Beach or Lake this weekend. Oh, man. I steer clear of anything with sand. I live in the wrong part of the world. I don't do sand, I don't do sun

But I guess if you're giving me a binary choice I'll always take beach ocean You're gonna do what you're I sense a hike in your future Yeah, I like that I like that smoke smoking hot girlfriend's gonna make you take a take a hike Good idea, love that Yeah yeah Ryan, beach or lake If I to choose I choose probably like a lake

I'm kind of antisocial but I'll probably go on a hike I like being by myself. There you go. There you go. Well, I mean, you can be anti-social in any of these two places. Usually, like, though, you go with friends. You know, you go tie up the boats out places. There are places where the water is still not totally warm yet in those lakes.

But quickly becoming more lake, although there is nothing like the beach. Again, I think the problem with both of these places is it's not the beach of the lake. It's the people. If you're there and the wrong people show up at the beach, you're like, yeesh. You get there at the lake and somebody just goes running by with the cigarette boat and, and they're causing wakes from they shouldn't. Eish. We'll see if the Knicks got any bounce back to him after that just horrific way of losing a game.

For my experience at the college level, when you lose one like that, it does have a tendency to beat you for half of the second game as well. So it wouldn't surprise me the Pacers lead at the half and we'll see if the Knicks wake up. And for Oklahoma City winning last night, like, again, I don't love the foul merchantry, but they're winning because they're defense and they seem to like each other. Have a great Memorial weekend. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is The Hurt.

Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Joey Dardano. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with thoughtful solutions.

Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to me. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite Wednesdays on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Conky, his best friend and business manager.

And we've got a new show called The 1021 Podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA. Listen to the 1021 podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.