The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - The most entertaining

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Colin talks about the most entertaining people to watch  The effect Caitlin Clark's injury is having on the WNBA More on the NBA playoffs   Guest: Ric BucherSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis' keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the,

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to deep cover the family man on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. By the way, Caitlin Clark's injury has sent WNBAHR

ticket prices for her games, Tumbling, the Indiana Fever Chicago Sky Game, which right now maybe is the best rivalry in the league. Tickets are down 71%. So the animosity for her. Rick Bukers joining us, what do you make? I mean, I read some numbers yesterday on the air on Memorial Day. It is unbelievable. Like she's worth almost half the merchandise of the league. What do you make of it? It's a combination of things. One, I think WMBA was an untouching. market, certainly, and the value of live programming when it comes to TV and everything else has just shot through the roof, particularly when it comes to sports. So I think she stepped in at the right time to take advantage of all of that. I think of Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods, I think

over his first five, six years, he raised the value of purses like 140 percent for golfers, so he certainly brought a lot of money into the sport. Magic and Bird transformed the NBA. I don't have numbers on that, but obviously when you go from tape delay to actual live programming, that's going to have an influence. But I think really is, it's really a matter of right place, right time, along with the nexus of women's sports coming to the forefront

in terms of the general interest in sports and women's sports. So I think she just, she's, she, tapped into a lot of things that are happening at this time. So I said this. We were talking about this before you came on. And by the way, Alan Iverson, Jay Mack, it's another guy I can throw in. But I counted 15 players all time that played differently, that were dynamic, starting with, the first one I saw was Dr. Jay.

And then there's Neke. And then there's David Thompson and Michael and Magic and Bird and Shack and Kobe and Derek Rose and Drexler. And there's about 15 guys that literally Charles Barkley, that literally played different. Like they were more vertical. they were more dynamic zion could have been if not for injuries and weight but the majority of great NBA players are are closer scores to kowai leonard and sGA and tim duncan and manu genobly and so when i hear the criticism of fgia i'm like he's not here to entertain us yeah he's just a tremendous

all-time player what do you make of the free throw merchant you know uh label i think it's silly and it is inspired by disenfranchised fans who don't like the way or don't like the fact that SGA is getting over on on their team and their favorite superstar. The reality is that his ability to draw fouls is a function of all of the other talent and skills that he's developed. He's a three-level scorer and he's got the ability to get a step on guys going either direction and he can score in a multitude of He hasn't always had that. And by the way, being able to draw fouls is a skill as well in terms of being able to change pace, direction, speed, and score in a multitude of ways. So I have no problem with it. Every great player we've seen has been able to do it.

And one of the biggest reasons that he has it and the distinction between those players that you mentioned that are all dynamic players, and the ones that were dynamic players and were champions. And this is the thing that I think people don't really appreciate when it comes to basketball. We think of it as a vertical sport. The greatest players, the champions, the most efficient players also have a ground game. They have great footwork and fundamentals and can score without having to leap over somebody. And that's what we're seeing with Anthony Edwards right now is that he doesn't have that. And conversely, SGA does.

Jalen Brunson does. And until Anthony Edwards develops that, he's not going to be on their level, no matter how dynamic his game might be otherwise. Well, you know, it's interesting, Rick, in politics today, because you have to win primaries, it basically doesn't play to moderates in common sense. Either you're far left or far right, and that will get you in the running. Right. So like if you're a moderate, slightly left or slightly right, you're at a huge disadvantage. Right. You're better to be far right or far left. And analytics can do that to sports. in that it changes your game.

Like Aunt Edwards, I look at his game and I think, I want more touches, I want more dunks, I want more transition. I wonder if analytics is changing his game for the worst. Well, I don't know if it's analytics or falling in love with the idea of being Steph Curry and being able to shoot like Steph Curry from three point range. But there's no doubt that that's the worst thing that's happened to Anthony Edwards game was being on the Olympic team and deciding that he was going to spend the summer trying to be more like Steph Curry.

Because during the season, 50% of his shots came from three-point range. If I'm the defense, taking threes is the best thing that can happen because it's not going to open up things for anybody else. If he's hitting them, yeah, that's a problem, but he's very streaky when it comes to that. And when he gets into the paint, he's much more dangerous when he has his mid-range. game. All of the threes that he took this season were at the expense of the mid-range shots that he used to take. He was developing a mid-range game. That's almost not existent now. I think one of the most telling stats that I saw today was the fact that SGA averages six, five point eight, six field goal attempts from the 10 to 16 point range, the

foot range, the mid-range. Ant averages one per game. And you can tell that when he gets the ball on the perimeter and he can't see a path to the rim, he gets hesitant because as opposed to SGA, he just wants to get you on your hip. He gets you on your hip and he's going to get to the free throw line and then he's going to make a decision. Can I get there? If I can't get there, is Isaiah Hartenstein open for a lob? Or I can just pull up and hit this midrange. and I'm comfortable doing that, and he shoots it,

SGA shoots that mid-range at 55%. That eliminates the need, at that high a percentage mid-range, that eliminates your need to be able to shoot threes or trade two for threes, because now you've got to shoot the three at a high percentage. Ant shoots that same shot closer to 40%. And so that, to me, is the big hole in Ant's game, and until he gets that or develops that, or focuses on that, he's going to be limited,

and defenses are going to be able to corral him the way that OKC has. One of the hardest things for certainly fans and media, but even execs to remember, is that you should fall in like with your stars, not fall in love. Almost all players have holes and flaws. And whoever has the ball on your team, too many people, I think, fell in love with Hardin. Hardin didn't play defense.

He was too ball-centric. Didn't play well with others. Jalen Brunson, I don't think, is his naturally gifts that is hardened, but he doesn't defend. It doesn't work on the floor with Kat a lot of the time. And, you know, he needs the ball a lot. So when I look at the Knicks, I know the Knicks haven't been relevant forever. Like, I get falling in love, but I look at him and I think he's not ideal with his current roster. Move Cat, find a catch and shoot, while maintaining some size, like KD.

Doesn't that make some sense? I would prefer KD over Kat just because he's more reliable as a score, and he can catch and shoot or operate off of one dribble. But what I really need is to take one of the hats off of Jalen Brunson because he's not only Mr. Clutch, he's not only their go-to score, but he's also their playmaker for the most part. You can't really play through Kat or anybody else on that team. What I need, and these names aren't nearly as sexy as KD, but DeMontas Sabonis and what

he does for the Sacramento Kings as a triple double threat, they've played through him these past three, a couple of years, and he's demonstrated that he can be a playmaker or a Franz Wagner. It's the LeBron James Luca Donchich type that is not dominating the ball as a score. I can use Jalen for that, but I can't use him for both. And there is the element. Look, I think that Jalen tries to play defense. I think that he can play defense in certain situations.

But there's just a limit when you're six feet, 190 pounds or so, to expect you to win every matchup offensively and then be able to defend your position in today's Uber athletic NBA is a lot to ask. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it. one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know first hand, because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what

it really takes to win on Clay. Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lerner Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and I actually can win on any surface because if she's serving well good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the

games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Finally, you know, it's, I always notice on TikTok, one of the things you see just a bevy of is this fitness world we live in where eat this and do this and i always think to myself people people are what they are you can change for an hour but by february people who signed up for the gym are back to not going to the gym yeah so i hear that luca yeah his conditioning is really changing and i think he likes his beer he likes his off-season right what do you make of the lucca i just In the end, I think he is what he is, right?

Colin, if we wanted to, we could have had this conversation in 2022 or 2023. I've seen this iteration. I've seen the reports. I've seen the video clips. I've seen him working out. I was like, oh, he's slimmed down. I can't tell you, he's not alone. There's a lot of other players I've seen.

He was like, oh, he's in shape or he's lost weight. The challenge is over the course of the season, when you are traveling. and you've got weird hours and you're fatigued from games. That's when the Steph Curry separate themselves where they get in and they get their treatment and then they get in the wait room and they're setting that standard for themselves and for their entire team.

And that is where things have to change if they're going to change for Luca. He's still at a young enough age where I don't want to say that it can't happen because I've seen other players realize, you know what? injury-wise and everything else, if I don't take better care of my body, I'm going to get into trouble. But that said, it's not, the off-season is the easiest time to take care of yourself. It's in the grind that you've got to be disciplined.

Yeah, no question. You're on a flight from, you know, 1145 to 2 in the morning. You arrived. You can't sleep. And they've got food. Let me tell you, I've been on those team flights. There's food outside the locker room. There's food. There's food when you get on the plane, and then they ask you what you'd like to have as a full meal. So the opportunity to put on weight is absolutely there throughout the season.

Rick, good seeing you as always, my man. You got it. All right, J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, let's start with the Green Bay Packers. Haven't done much with them lately.

They've kind of been quiet. you know, maybe second, third, or fourth in the division this year. But Jordan Love has a new weapon on the outside. A young fellow named Matthew Golden out of Texas. He's a burner. And his quarterback says, Golden looks like a stud. Looks like a very polished receiver. I'm excited to just see how far he could take it.

My question is, I don't know how Golden cracks the rotation or what they do. They've got one of the best receiving groups in the league. No alpha, no superstar, but a lot of good players. Christian Watson, Jane Reed, Romeo Dobbs. What are your expectations for Golden? Dobs is inconsistent. Watson has hurt a lot. There's no problem having an extra receiver.

My take would be that the Green Bay Packers will go through camp, early stages of the season, will move one of those receivers, you know, get a fifth round pick or get a functional interior offensive linemen. But when I saw that draft pick, you know, that draft pick, you know, that draft pick, felt like to me is they're disappointed with one of the receivers in their room. It could be Watson because of his injuries, but my take was they have a lot of good tight ends, a lot of good receivers, and they drafted another one. Sometimes teams tell you what they're thinking about their personnel during draft

and free agency, and I thought they told you they're going to move off one of their young receivers. And somebody, they've got four guys that have moments. It could be Dobbs. He had the incident where he was benched last season for like, Bet getting upset with his touches. Wix is another guy who's pretty good, big body guy. But that is interesting, a trade chip.

Let's move off one of the other guys, create some new room for Golden. I don't hate that. Golden looks like a lot of Jaden Reed, who emerged as a potential stud. He didn't show up late in a big game. I think it might have been one game late in the season. I was like, where's Jaden Reed? So they got weapons. I like the Packers.

I don't know what to make of them, Colin. Next up, Janus has an idea. okay he is endorsing this USA versus the world all-star game now it's been floated before but Janice is now all of a sudden active on social media ahead of potentially his trade summer he is floating a USA versus the world all-star game and Colin I'm not going to lie this looks pretty awesome the problem is how do you get these guys to buy in when Curry and LeBron are old 80's old and then a lot of the Europeans like they need to the rest because they're carrying their teams.

Janice, Yokic, Luka. It's a bit of a tough sell. I don't know how you make this interesting, but splitting it into two, certainly, I mean, a talent is just, oh, I would absolutely in one second take this over the current NBA All-Star game, not even without question. You know, like, we care about stuff in this country when we're threatened or we lose. That's when we really truly care. watching 148-144 doesn't do it for me.

I love the idea of this. I think it's smart. So I guess the counter would be like what's the win? Is the win, hey, you get to pump up the USA or the world? The win is, you know, whenever the All-Star game is February, whenever it is, people are talking for two to three days about the NBA. There's some social currency to it. That's the win. Something.

Final story, Colin, is Aaron Judge. Oh, my gosh. This guy's on a tear. is hitting 398 right now chasing 400. He's first or second in almost every major batting category trying to break Babe Ruth's record for total bases, which has stood since. Is that right, 1921? Oh my gosh. Look at these numbers for Judge. First and average, OBP, OPS, total bases, extra base hits, second in home runs after Otony went yard last night. Aaron Judge is absolutely cooking with the Yankees. And I'd love a Yankee's. I'd love a Yankee's. Dodgers rematch in the World Series.

You get Judge versus Otani. Cubs may have something to say with that. Who? Oh, keep your eye on the Cubs. Just keep you on the Cubs. Why don't you toss the white socks in there while you're at it? No, let's not do that. Give me up, wait.

J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. Nick Wright, Rick Bueger, both stop by today. Live in Chicago, it's the Hur. Be sure to catch live. Live editions of the Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names

of our band before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little note had Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris.

every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen, she won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's always what's interesting about Aaron Rogers, who still hasn't made a decision. Aaron didn't win enough big games, and there's reasons for it. I mean, even with Brady Manning and Big Ben, in the AFC, there was a thought that Aaron would own the NFC.

He didn't. He didn't even own the NFC, which had weaker quarterbacks. And so my take is, there's a reason. He's not really a foxhole guy, can be passive-aggressive. I've been told this by he wasn't as committed as other players like, you know, Brady and Manning. He wasn't obsessed. He had a life. And so, I've always said it's very hard for me. What do you do with Marino and Aaron Rogers? because the four or five things that matter when you judge all-time quarterbacks, Super Bowl appearances and wins, division titles, productivity, MVP, playoff record.

And Aaron just, and Reno just don't match up. Now, Aaron's closer than Dan Marino is, but Dan Marino had Don Shula and got to one Super Bowl and couldn't win. Why? A little bit of a playboy, maybe, not as obsessed with work ethic. Middle, older, later in his career, didn't have his legs, a little bit stubborn, you know, relied too much on talent and not other factors. He had the coach.

It's a coach quarterback league my entire life. He had a running game. He had decent protection. So it's nothing against Marino, but it's on Marino. It's not in anybody else. They had good ownership. So when you talk about all these great plays, say what you want about Aikman.

When he had the opportunity to win titles, he did. Two with Jimmy and one with Barry Switzer. He was a leader. He maybe didn't have the talent. But he won. When Bradshaw had the great defenses and Chuck Norris. He goes four and oh in Super Bowls. And so you don't have to win all of them.

Elway got blown out multiple times. Mahomes has been blown out, but he gets to them. Elway is getting to them over Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. And so, like I think Josh Allen and Lamar are all-time greats. But if they truly are, they'll make a Super Bowl. They'll get the one or two. And so I've always been a huge fan of Lamar Jackson. but if he doesn't get to a Super Bowl,

then it's hard to put him in that class, right? He's just a winning regular season player. And, you know, a great example is golf, is that as great as Tiger Woods was, Phil Mickelson still won six majors and 45 PGA events because he's an all-time great. So, I mean, as good as Nadal was and Federer was, Jokovic is still winning those tournaments.

Three all-time great. rates, simultaneously you could argue, although Fedder's a little older, in their prime, they still won all those majors, because they're three all-time greats, as McEnroe was, as Borg was. And they were simultaneously, I think they were simultaneously in their prime. So that's the thing with Aaron. It's like, Aaron, Brady Manning and Big Ben were on the other ledger. You've got to get to Super Bowls, and he got the one.

Then you could say, well, who do you have his coach? He had offensive coaches. Well, did he have support? They always had good offensive lines. I mean, now, Green Bay doesn't get the free agents that other organizations do, but I would argue in the last 25 years, they've drafted better than any organization in the league. I really believe that. They draft and develop, especially O-Line, they draft and develop as well as anybody in the league.

So I've always said, I don't know what to do because as Aaron has been talking in the last couple of weeks, he said, I don't want to play in Louisiana. I'm not going to be a saint. So where he plays matters. He said he'd play for $10 million, so salary doesn't matter. He's telling you it's not about the money. It's about where I play. And at a recent event, he talked about maybe I could go to Green Bay,

so I'm not even sure right now if he wants to be a starter. But I've never known if you retire today where to put him. Jim Kelly, by the way, who also played in another league. I mean, think how good you can say what you want about Jim Kelly. You got four Super Bowls? and a lot of his career was in another league. So Jim Kelly has to be considered an all-time grade to me. Now, he didn't win him.

He was going up against the dynasty and the Dallas Cowboys, but the fact is Jim got to four of them. So I think when you talk about all-time grades, if Aaron retired today, I've never quite known, like I've never quite known what to do. Nick, here was Aaron over the weekend, asked about the possibility as retiring as a Packer. I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the reason for that is.

You know, at the same time, I grew up a Niner fan, and most of my favorite players retired as a Niner. So I understand the cool thing about it, but if I didn't do it, would that make a difference in how I'm viewed in the Packers' eyes? There's a lot of love for me and how I feel about the team. If I do or if I don't, I don't think it should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they approached me about it, I probably would. So Nick Wright and I were talking about this earlier. If Aaron retired today, Nick says he's top 10,

and I struggle with it because the stuff that matters is Super Bowl appearances and wins, division titles. I mean, if you can't win Super Bowls, you've got to dominate your division. Big Ben dominates his division. Brady dominates his division. You've got to dominate your division. I want productivity. I'll give you some MVP's.

I do not care about passer rating at all in your playoff record. And playoff records are, they're hard. Both Fav and Aaron Rogers were around 500. I get it. I think Farrve has a couple more wins in the playoffs, but it's hard. You're playing the best teams. But I also would say that Green Bay has a bit of a weather advantage. I mean, for dome teams and warm weather teams going to Green Bay,

like you can remember Michael Vick winning there. Like it was so shocking. You are not shocked when a cold weather team goes down to a dome and wins. That's much easier. So, I don't know. I mean, again, I'm not saying Aaron's not a top 12, 15 quarterback of all time. But when he's talking about retiring, he's a Hall of Famer, he's first ballot, some like Farmore. I always preferred Aaron as a quarterback.

I thought he was more of a thinking person's quarterback. I don't know what to do with him all time, and I don't know what to do with Dan Marino. NBA style matters, NFL winning matters, especially in January and February. And Marino didn't win a lot there. And I think a lot of it's on Dan. It's not on Shula. It's not on the organization. And Aaron didn't win a lot, didn't dominate the NFC.

I think some of it's on Aaron. I never thought he was a foxhole guy. People can push back. That's fine, but that's kind of where we stand now. Here's Nick earlier on Aaron Rogers, sort of the all-time debate if he retired today. Since the merger, I think there are, to me, six guys I would clearly have ahead of Aaron,

and then five or six guys, he's right there with them. And the Marino part is tricky, because you're right, He's got none of the winning, but the flip side to that is literally every person that covered the league in the 80s or played, they all swear a blood oath that he's one of the greatest players anyone's ever seen. And so I feel like there is some of that same almost mythological aspect to Aaron, which is guys who played with him and against him talk about his talent in such an amazing way. Yeah, and maybe it's just as simple as this. Athletes, quarterbacks consider Aaron all-time top 10,

but I think you have to consider this. If he is top 10, what happens if Josh Allen wins a Super Bowl? He's absolutely going to push him out. What happens if Lamar wins a Super Bowl with a 76% winning percentage in a division with Joe Burrow, the Steelers? That could push him out. So if Aaron is top 10, it's probably 9-10-ish, and there's no question.

and Mahomes is already in there. I'm not that far from, I mean, Alan may end up being Marino, where you don't get the Super Bowls, but you get everything else. And maybe Josh Allen is our current Dan Marino. But in terms of an athlete playing quarterback, I think Josh Allen's the most talented quarterback I've ever seen.

Second Elway, third Mahomes, just talent. The other thing is, I'll throw this out there, Jay Mack. This is one we've talked about. If Stafford wins another, other Super Bowl. You think it's crazy. He was a better high school quarterback than Aaron, a better college quarterback, a better first four year in the league quarterback, and a much better quarterback late. I think Stafford has signed that team-friendly deal, because I think Stafford is aware that with another Super Bowl, he moves into a, I mean, you can say what you want about Stafford, go look at

Stafford's playoff record. He just had the dysfunction of Detroit in the prime of his career. But if Stafford wins another Super Bowl, I'm sorry. He's. is really close to top 10 all time, really close, because he's been a good regular season quarterback where Eli wasn't. Let's settle down there, big guy. A lot of ifs with Josh Allen and if Lamar and Saffert. Let's just deal with the numbers because you mentioned Elway earlier. And when I hear Elway and I say Rogers, for sure, I'd go down a rabbit hole.

Colin, I know you're not going to want to hear this. Elway versus Rogers is super interesting. I'll just start with this. Every statistical category almost, Aaron Rogers destroys him. And I love Elway. Elway has a better culture of winning Super Bowls, obviously, and comebacks. John Elway was the master of comebacks. Rogers does not have a surprisingly low number of comebacks.

But if you just look at it from pure quarterbacking, Aaron Rogers is top five, and that's undeniable. Yeah, but you have to remember Aaron's careers in a passing league. Elway, it was a much more defense could do anything they wanted back then. Go look at what defense could do then to a wide receiver and a quarterback. And I like Elwood. I was a huge fan of Elway. I was distraught when he couldn't win until he got Terrell Davis.

But Roger's not top 10. That's one of your hotter takes of 2025. I'm not saying he couldn't be 11. I'm not saying it's not part of you. I'm 10, Colin. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe.

I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to us.

We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions. because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was partying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to him, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they're? are. I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to deep cover the family man on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.