The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - The NFL heach coaching cycle

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

Thoughts on the NFL head coaching cycle so far More on the Jets chaotic season and what we can expect next season   Guest: Jordan SchultzSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Live in Los Angeles, it's the hurt. Wherever you may be, and however you may be listening. Thanks for Meganas part of your day. So yesterday I did start of the show with a little bit of a four or five minute Taylor Swift Ramp defending her 20. second appearances on football games that last almost four hours. Apparently, that morning Joe was running it today, the staff just told me it's our highest clicked anything during the football season.

Oh, my. So apparently the Swifties came to support our show. That's my understanding is that they come in fast and furious. The Swift clip aired on The View today. Really? I've never been on the... Still on TV? I remember that for like 15 years ago.

It was on The View. It was on more. I know Joe Scarborough. Wonderful. I don't know who that is. He's very politically engaged on MSNBC. You don't know who he is? That's why I don't watch that channel.

Maybe we should rank Taylor Swift songs, like top five. I said, I'm not a Swifty, but I do think men who are deeply bothered by 25 seconds over three and a half hours need to get their priorities right. I said this before, too, because I have. My mom was a very strong woman. At 14 years old, my mom got on a boat by herself in London where she lived to go to New York City. Very strong woman. My wife, Irish outspoken, very strong woman. My sister has a point of view.

My daughter, again, opinionated. I just have a lot of very strong women in my life, and I have throughout the course of my life. I've had women who are bosses on the set with me, always have a strong opinion, always thoughtful. and so I would just be as a man, it would be horrifying to be outraged by 25 seconds of Taylor Swift. How would the women in my life react to me and view me? Now, some guys grow up with brothers only, without a sister. You know, maybe dad's the force in their life, not mom. They've never had a female boss.

They haven't had the opportunities I have. But I've just happened to have a very strong European mother who came over on a boat by herself to New York, strong sister strong outspoken wife uh daughter big opinions you're going to know about them and and just the women i've worked with in media in my life so that's been my life that's been my um my reality is i've had strong women and i and i don't know why this is psychologically i'm not Freud obviously uh but it does matter what women think of me it does matter what my daughter my wife my sister it matters what women think of me it's not an appearance thing i know what i look like i've got a mirror but it does matter that they don't think I'm a lunkhead and a meathead.

And I think if you're getting upset over 25 seconds of video over three and a half hours, you need to get over it. We put guys on sports all the time. I remember very famously in the 80s. It was a real thing. The NBA had this marketing campaign. It was really cool. And it was famous people.

It'd be like Rob Lowe, who still, by the way, looks 28, and Jack Nicholson. And it was NBA. It's fantastic. And they would go to Laker Games and they would show, celebrities and it was cool that the late ciscoll and ebert would be at a bulls game and we've had all these male figures and it's okay guys if women like sports too i don't care if they're dating a player who cares you know i've always felt this about sports hey man you're a casual i'm a sportscaster i'm a casual outside of the nfl i'm a casual i love my life i like my sports and i try to

bring that perspective every day i don't want to go down these tunnels and rabbit holes and being If you want to hear a crazy person, go have a beer with your buddy and watch a game. That's not my job. I want to be the judge sitting atop with a gavel and listen to the prosecutor and the DA. And that's how I sort of view my role in this whole thing is I want to come in. You know, we all have biases, but kind of agenda free, and this is how I view the game. So I guess my takeaway on Taylor Swift was, and I didn't really watch a lot of the feedback. I try to stay off that stuff.

I don't want to know if it's too good or too bad. I don't think Dennis Miller used to have a great line. You'll get arrogant if your feedback's too good, and you'll get insecure if it's too bad, so I don't care. But I do think what's amazing about sports is I want more people under the tent. Because when I was a kid and I was a sports fan, I never understood people that got into soap operas. Like I understood sitcoms and Mary Tyler Moore, Mass Cheers.

Anytime you can make people laugh, could be Johnny Carson Letterman, Lennon. It doesn't matter that's good. But I never understood people that were so loyal to. pretending. And I always felt like all the real stuff is sports. How do you not like sports? And I grew up in a family that nobody liked it except me. So when Russell Wilson went to the Seahawks and Pete Carroll and they won, my sister finally liked sports. And I thought it was so cool. She's like, oh my God, I'm getting nervous. The two-minute drive. And I'm like, my sister's using football terms. So that was it was a really important part of this sort of growth as a sportscaster. It was nobody in my family's ever like sports. And my wife, similarly, I've never, I've never, been involved with people who care about sports much. But I love when they're under the tent and they get nervous and anxious and I'm like, you don't get this with sitcoms.

You don't get this. This is real life. It's so wonderful. And we should just open our arms to everybody and let them in. This is so much fun. And these athletes care so much. And they make a lot of money, but they play through pain. They play hurt.

Lamar Jackson's crying when he loses. How do you not love these guys? How do you not love this stuff? And I've thought about, I tell my wife this all the time. I don't want to retire and go play golf and be removed from people. I want to be around young people. I want to laugh. I want to cry.

There's an old saying in the news business. It was in broadcast news. I was talking to an old friend Jim Snyder, who's a newscaster in Las Vegas yesterday. We were texting back and forth. And there was a line, because the news business is so hard and you see so much death and pain that there's a line in broadcast news. Get out of news while you can still cry. because it numbs you.

Sports never numbs me. I can't wait for the next game. I can't wait to watch Jim Harbaugh with the Chargers. I can't stand what's going to happen in September, October, November, and politics. I don't want any part of it. Negative, angry, accusatory, conspiracy-driven. Yuck. News is sad.

politics is weird and tribal. Sports is amazing. So a beautiful, talented girl dates a superstar, and she loves this stuff. My wife doesn't like sports. She's from Detroit. The lions were losers her whole life. My wife's going crazy Sunday. She's literally calling me swearing because she's at a different place than I was.

We're texting for an hour straight. And I loved every second of it. invite people into the tent. It's so rewarding. It's so amazing. If you landed on this planet and you didn't know what sports was, I would say it's totally unscripted. I was absolutely sure Kansas City was going to lose. I can't believe the lions are good.

Michigan's now way better than Ohio State. The best basketball players are from Europe. You never know what you're going to get. and to me it keeps you young politics ages you news ages you sports keeps you young let's just be happy

people love it as much as we do good for Taylor Swift Matthew McConae M&M Drake Bradley Cooper I love seeing Bradley Cooper at Eagle Games it's like this famous actor who's doing duets with Lady Gaga

bleeds green God he cares so much for the Eagles he's so irrational This talented, brilliant actor is so absurdly irrational for the Eagles. God, I love that. What a feeling sports gives all of us, and I'm done ranting. Okay, a youth movement in Seattle. The Seahawks expected to hire the Ravens, D.C., that's defensive coordinator.

Mike McDonald is their new head coach. Finalizing the deal, Seattle has its man. At 36, he's going to become the NFL's youngest head coach. So so far in the coaching cycle, here's who we have. Chargers, offensive coach Harbaugh. Raiders defensive coach Antonio Pierce. Very little experience, but a former player. Patriots defensive guy Gerard Mayo.

Titans offensive guy Brian Callahan. Panthers offensive guy Dave Canales. Falcons, defensive guy Rahim Morris. Seahawks defensive guy Mike McDonald. Commanders. Frable? Mike Rable? I guess it's possible.

By the way, I was just reading up on McDonald's. So he spent a lot of time with the Ravens, then went to Michigan under Harbaugh, and then came back to the other Harbaugh. How much do you think being in the Harbaugh orbit for close to seven, eight years, helped him get this gig. I mean, Jim Harbaugh, one of the best coaches in the league.

John Harbaugh and elite coach, I think it's part of the reason he got this job, no? Yeah. So we have one, two. So four defensive coaches, three offensive coaches. You know how I feel about that. And I think the commanders may go Vrable. I mean, if Vrable's available, he's the best guy out there.

Is there a dark horse? I don't even, I mean, it's tough to think of Dan Quinn. What does this mean, by the way, for Dan Quinn? Does he go back to Dallas? Yeah. It's all interesting. Greg Olson earlier on why teams want to lean generally offensive coach

over defensive coach. I think the reason why teams gravitate towards offensive coaches is because typically to get an offensive play caller in your building, you have to make him the head coach and the greatest connection between the quarterback is with his play caller. And if you have success,

success, success is going to get your staff poached. Look what's happened to Sean McVeigh, right? Every coach on his staff over the years has been poached, but what has always stayed the same? The play caller has stayed the same. If Sean McVeigh was a defensive coach, and they've had the same exact success, every time these guys are plucked off his staff,

his quarterback, Gough, and now Stafford, would have had to work with a new play caller. And it's just teams don't want turnover for their quarterback. and if you anticipate success, your play caller, if it's not your head coach, he's going to get plucked away from you, and teams don't want that revolving door. It's not so much that defensive coaches aren't great coaches. They are. I mean, Bill Belichick, I mean, you can go down the list.

They're just harder to find guys to change the game on offense. So if you can get them in the building, you've got to make them a head coach. All right. So one coaching job left Washington. Remember, winnable division, good roster, nice young skill people, most salary cap space. I think you have a backup in Sam Howell, but they have a top pick. They have the second or the third pick.

They have the second or third pick. Bears, Washington, second, I'm sorry, second pick. So they're going to get the second best quarterback, or they can move up if Caleb Williams doesn't want to be a bear. So they're going to get the first of the second best quarterback prospect, most salary cap space, good young receivers in an offensive league. I think Vrable would win there immediately. Hot take. The Washington job is better than the same. Seattle job. I don't want to face

Shanahan and McVeigh four times a year. No thanks. That's not a terrible take. That's not a... Not a terrible take. Thanks so much, pal. It was... Way to back me up. It was a pretty solid plus take. No, that's... Certainly you can argue that. Most cap space and the number two pick.

By the way, just for the record, that entire division, Philadelphia coaches on the hot seat this year. You can't replace both coordinators back-to-back years. Dallas and Philadelphia. The other both have old stars, old expensive stars. Dallas coach is lame duck, and I know you didn't mention him earlier, but Brian Dable comes into this season after beefing with his DC, offense fell off a cliff, and they committed to Daniel Jones. I think the Giants are also in trouble.

Washington, the arrow is pointing up. I think you're right. Good take. Reluctantly good take. Stay tuned. Live on LA, it's The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays and noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

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When he is, we put him on the set. My friend, let's start with the commanders. So Ben Johnson was the leading candidate. There was a quarterback, Boomer Osiasin, guaranteed it was done. Something unraveled. You told me during the break, the last two to three days, it wasn't Ben Johnson. I think Ben Johnson, you talk about Washington. Yeah.

Ben Johnson was in a really interesting position because he knew that Adam Peters, the GM, the new GM in Washington really likes him. He also knows that he has a great, basically perfect situation coming back in Detroit next year. I have no doubt that Gerogov's going to get extended. He'll get 40 to 45 million this offseason per year. He's the guy now, right? He was the placeholder with the Stafford Trade. He proved himself. He's the guy.

You have Gibbs. You have St. Brown. You have Jameson Williams. This dynamic young offense, Leporta, great offensive line. Brent Johnson knows he's going to be a very hot candidate next year. And when you think about it, over the last five years, Colin, eight candidates are available, eight jobs every single year. In other words, a third of the league is fired every offseason.

So if Ben Johnson does what he's supposed to do next year, he'll be even in more demand heading into 2025. Okay. So commanders is the only job not filled before we get to Seattle's being filled. Is Vrabel still at all, Belichick-Vrayble at all up? for that one? I'd say Belichick, no. Vrable would surprise me. I think it's down to Weaver from Baltimore. You got Dan Quinn and Aaron Glenn from Detroit, the defensive coordinator. Now, Ben Johnson told Detroit, as they were on the airplane, I'm going to stay here. But Aaron

Glenn is firmly in the mix as well. So you basically have three guys. I'd be very surprised if Vrable got in the mix. He hasn't interviewed there. Listen, this is a new ownership group with Josh Harris that spent $6 billion plus on this franchise. They want to be the antithesis of what Snyder was. They want to have a sustainable franchise, right? So you think about those three candidates, Weaver's and uppercumber, really well-liked defensive guy, Aaron Glenn, defensive guy, Dan Quinn, defensive guy. So regardless, even if they went Vrabel, that's pretty much a defensive guy as well. So they want a defensive guy now. They've shifted off of Ben Johnson, and I think all three of those guys are really in the mix. But Dan Quinn, to me, makes a lot of sense because

he's like he's a perfect I believe place not placeholder replacement of Ron Rivera because a lot of the things that Ron Rivera wasn't willing to do take full control of the defense Dan Quinn will be willing to do that Dan Quinn in his mid-50s they had a top five defense across the board in Dallas last year interviewed very well has a really good relationship with Adam Peters I think he makes a lot of sense I'm not sure if he gets the job because I was told Weaver did awesome as did Glenn in the interviews but I like the Dan Quinn effect just because of the culture he can instead. So Harbaugh's had the job for a few days. Jim, this appeared to be a really good match. Take me behind the scenes why it was. We said six weeks ago, the Chargers targeted Jim Harbaugh. That was their guy. Jim Harbaugh was suspended, what, six games last year? Yeah.

He already had a ton of just a cadre of violations for 2024. He knew there was a really good chance he was going to get suspended again. He wins the national championship. He goes to three straight college football playoffs in Michigan. He did everything he was supposed to. to do. So he goes to the Chargers, and that was really the only organization, Colin, as it was described to me, willing to cede full control. Now, the GM they bring in from Baltimore was with John Harbaugh. So he goes from John to Jim. Okay, he has the quarterback. He has the quarter billion

dollar facility. He has everything you'd want as well as, again, full operating control. So as it's been described to me, he will work in collaboration with the new GM, but ultimately Jim Harbaugh is going to have final say that was incredibly important. And as we just talked about, five years at 80 million 16 per year, he's getting a tremendous amount of money, lifetime security, really. So it made a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. And then by the way, he wants to say to John Harbaugh, oh, I also have a Super Bowl. I also have a national championship.

You don't have that. Well, right, you're from the Pacific Northwest. You're tied into the Seahawks. Mike McDonald, you know, this Ravens defense. J. Mack talked about this yesterday. Everybody in the league is buzzing about this guy. It's got a little bit of a D'Amico Ryan's feel where two years ago, somebody from the Niners said, we got the next great coach on our staff.

And it wasn't solid necessarily, though they liked him. They were like, keep your eye for D'Amico Ryans, the guy that just played. Yeah. So you're hearing similar things with Mike McDonald. Yeah. It's a great point comparing D'Amico who just had this cataclysm, I should say, meteoric rise through the NFL ranks. And when you think about Mike McDonald, what does he do really well?

I had a GM described Mike McDonald to me as Kyle Shanahan, Mike McDaniel, and Sean McVeyer on the defensive side of the ball. That's how creative he was. Think about all the all-pro years that he was able to instill this season in Baltimore. Kyle Hamilton, Matabuque, you think about what he did for Patrick Queen. Roquan Smith became the best linebacker. He literally changed the whole defense. Roquan Smith was unbelievable. But so was Patrick Queen.

that duo was the best linebacking duo arguably in the league. And what did he do? He took Patrick Queen, whose option was not even picked up by Baltimore last offseason and turned him into a Pro Bowl caliber player. So I love the Mike McDonald hire. His creativity, look what he did after the first two drives with Kansas City. I mean, that's the best quarterback. That's the best player arguably in pro sports in Patrick Mahomes.

After those first two drives, he created problems. He was sending exotic blitzes. You didn't know where Kyle Hamilton was coming from. obviously that's great personnel, but what Mike McDonald's going to do with 36 years old is take a Seattle defense that has been in the bottom half, bottom third, the last three years. With some really good players. That's the thing. They have great talent.

You think about Jordan Brooks and some of the young safeties and corners, obviously woolen and spoon. He's going to take those guys to an entirely different dimension. And I believe at 36, the runway is so long for him that he's the exact type of fit that Seattle needed after Pete Carroll at 72. So Belichick is interesting because I had said earlier, sometimes Nike from the Northwest makes you after 10 years take five weeks off. Reboot. Don't come to the campus. Get out of the country. Get off the treadmill.

We want you to see the world beyond your current borders. And it's a really nice reboot for people, you know, I think emotionally, intellectually, go see other stuff. In the NFL, you can't, you know, you don't get those. But I would say Bill was no days off as GM and coach for over 10 years doing both. he got a little allergic and tone deaf to the cultural changes of the league. I don't think it's horrible that he takes a step back and does some TV. What do you hear about what he wants? Was it a, you know, the Atlanta thing didn't work.

We thought he was in the lead. That's very well said, Colin. And you talk about B. I love the Biverton Nike comp. Listen, I believe that both Bill Belichick and Arthur Blank, heading into the process, believed that Belichick was going to be the guy. Belichick interviewed twice. He's almost 72 years old.

He's won. six Super Bowls, he is the greatest of all time. The fact that the interview twice tells us he really wanted that job, but I think was also willing to work with Arthur Blank. But I think what happened with Atlanta was that it became abundantly clear. Two things. One, Bill Belichick, the last three or four years when he had full control, wasn't the answer. You just talked about the last decade, kind of losing touch with that.

It's hard enough to be a head coach in the league. It's really, really hard to do two. I think Bill Ballencheck, at this point in his career in his 70s, should just be a head coach. but what I'm told is that Arthur Blank, the people around him were telling him, listen, if you hire Bill Belichick, even if Terry Fontno is still here as the GM, he's still going to have the final say, because that's what he wants, and the type of money and the ego that's all there is not what we need. So you take in all of that, and then the fact that Rahim Morris came and absolutely blew it out of the park.

His interview process was tremendous. He brings in Zach Robinson from the Rams, who was the OC. and I think what Rahim learned from Tampa was, I've got to delegate more. So let me focus on the defense and let me have Zach run the offense. I think both hires were terrific. I'm not saying that Bill or Pete Carroll wouldn't want to coach moving forward. But I think both those guys need to wait it out, maybe do TV. I think they'd be awesome, potentially revolutionized TV.

They'd be phenomenal. But weighted out to the 2025 cycle where, again, the last five years tells us there's going to be eight jobs available. So the senior bowl, Michael Pennix and Boe Nicks, the North, West kids who are going to get drafted. Bonix for sure in the first round, I think Pennix. Penix, there's some concerns at Indiana, you know, about some, you know, some injuries, surgeries. So what did you hear down there?

So what I was told was there's a lot about Pennix that people are going to find out this week. Number one, he had the highest, I'm sorry, the biggest hand size, Pennix did, of any non-linman in Mobile. Massive myths. Now, we know evaluators love the big. Big Mitz. He also has a 6-9 wingspan. He's freakishly long. He stands about 6-2-5, 6-3. So what he's able to do, and I talked to John Beck yesterday, who's his quarterback coach, whose work with C.J. Strau, Justin Fields, Bryce Young. I said, what is it about Mike that you love?

You see the Oregon State game right there? He said, go back and watch the Oregon State tape. That was a really talented defense in horrendous weather. Look what Michael Pennix did to them. Look at the big throws he made when it mattered most in the elements. That's what's going to separate Mike from a lot of other quarterback prospects. And then you talk about the composure. This is the greatest quarterback and greatest player in Husky history. He had Romo Dunes Day. He had Polk.

He had McMillan. Those guys are terrific. And then you see West over there. The way he spreads the ball around, he's like Steve Nash. That's how one assistant GM told me. He's like Steve Nash. He's so unselfish with not committing to one guy over the other. He's going to find guys when they're available.

He's never going to panic. And his intelligence is through the roof. And then you just have the match. Matthew Stafford arm angles. That's what Jack Beck told me, or John Beck told me as well. He said, Pennix reminds me of Matthew Stafford with how he can dip his arm angles in the slots. And that really matters in tight windows. And he said, because he's so composed, Michael Pennix is able to see those windows, see what a defense is presenting him.

Never panic. And then obviously deliver on time inaccurate. Okay. So we don't have a lot of Aaron Rogers defenders on this show. But there was a massive article in the athletic this morning that there were 30. sources on it. My takeaway was it was mostly, honestly, about Nat Hackett and how

Nat Hackett has lost confidence in the building from coaches and people, but he's Aaron's kind of buddy. And so Aaron's like, he's my guy and he lets me do what I want to do. And I've said before, owners, Belichick, Aaron, it's not, if you want to really win in this league, you can't do everything on your terms. Yeah. Sometimes

Mahom's going to get barked at by Eric B. Enemy, right? Andy Reed. You can't just do things to be comfortable. this sounds like Aaron's really comfortable with him. That's my takeaway. With Nate Hackett? Yeah, he's his guy,

but it sounds like from the athletic article, Hackett's lost a lot of confidence with multiple coaches in the building. So your takeaway on the article, 30, so I haven't heard of the 30. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, I never heard of 30. Listen, if Aaron Rodgers was so hated in that building,

I'm going to say this with great respect to everybody else in the team, would he have been voted most inspirational like he was by his teammates. The answer is no. It's definitively no. Now, I've talked to 5, 6, 7 guys throughout the last few weeks about what went wrong this year. There were a lot of things. Aaron gets hurt. That's the main thing that gets wrong.

They didn't have a contingency plan. Zach Wilson and resident ready to play. But Aaron Rogers is not hated in that building. Like anywhere else, there's going to be problems day to day. But listen, to me, I'm not saying the reporting was inaccurate. What I'm saying is that Aaron Rogers has a lot of fans in that building from the staff to the players all the way up to Woody Johnson, the owner. And he's going to be back next season.

They're going to run it back. They're going to improve their offensive line. That's a big factor. They need another receiver. They need another running back to help Bruce Hall. But I think with that defense and Robert Saul are just focusing on the defense, that team can be competitive next year. But again, the fact that Aaron Rogers was voted most inspirational without playing

what four snaps all year tells you all you need to know. Yeah, I thought the article, and J-Mack, you may have read it, I thought the article was more about Hackett than Aaron, and that Aaron likes Hackett, and Salah's lost confidence, clearly another coach on the staff, they didn't like it at camp. I thought it was pretty hard on Hackett. I mean, it's not going to damage Aaron at all, but it did come across like, hey, he's Aaron's buddy,

and Aaron's going to get what he wants. Sure. But, you know, it's the Jets. Of course he's going to get what he. When LeBron came to the Lakers, LeBron got what he wanted. Of course. I mean, is Aaron Rogers one of the three at worst, best quarterbacks of all the time? Does he have the most unbelievable resume of pretty much anyone in the game today, other than the homes?

Yes, he's going to get what he wants. He wanted Nathaniel Hackett. He got him. They were tight in Green Bay. I also asked Randall Cobb. I said, with Aaron not being in the building, and obviously they go back to Green Bay together 10 plus years, I said, what impact did it have? He said, Aaron is a calming presence. Even if we're not playing well, we know eventually Aaron's going to get us there.

He's a calming presence. We didn't have that. But Aaron is one of the most beloved guys in this locker room without having been here more than half the year. That was Randall Cobb. So to me, this jet situation is unfortunate because of the injury. Nathaniel Hackett's not going anywhere. Sala's not going anywhere. Joe Douglas isn't.

They're going to run it back. And I have to believe with the healthy Aaron Rogers, they're going to win 10 plus games next year. By the way, J-Mack, did you notice the fairness on this show? We talked about- I was waiting for Jay-Mack to jump in and say, no, I didn't like it. If you give both sides, this is somebody defending Aaron. He doesn't watch our show, but if he did, see, we take both sides. I'm not going to defend him.

I am curious where you guys think, why this story now, we'd like to ask that question, and who's doing a lot of the leaking? I know with 30 sources, it's tough, but there's clearly someone with the agenda. Well, there was two courses, there was two coaches that were critical of hacking. So it was, listen, everybody's jealous of power. If I had a bunch of power here, you're going to get somebody, right? Like, that's just the reality of it. And Aaron does have a lot of say, but he's got say because it's been a dysfunctional organization for 12 years. That's why he got say.

So I do think some of this stuff is just jealousy. But it's funny, I thought it was more damning of Hackett. You know, Aaron did. Aaron gets attached because he wanted Hackett. Yeah, and I think one of these things with Aaron is, and I've said this about Belichick, if you really are all in on winning, and I've criticized NFL owners for this, then it can't always be on your terms. Owners and say it with the Chargers had to relinquish power to Harbaugh.

They'll be better. Belichick relinquish some power to Tommy. They won a lot. I do think Aaron deserves power. I've always said, Hackett sounds like a great guy. That doesn't always mean a great coach. No, it doesn't.

It's not a prerequisite. What is a prerequisite is having the respect of your guys, even if they don't like you. It's like any great team. I don't have to like you, Aaron Rogers, but I do need to respect you. My sense is that he is very well liked and respected, and as soon as he comes back,

Are we talking about this? If Aaron Rogers played 17 games last year, we're not talking about this because even Hackett's deficiencies aren't going to be exposed. So to me, this is a non-story heading into next year when Rogers and Hackett are back on the same page and this thing's rolling again, as I have to believe it will. Look at that.

Can I get a pre-seat early prediction on the Jets next year from both of you? I'm just curious. No, that's good. Let me see. Let me do this because we were very accurate this year. You are? Ryan, we got this division. Perfect.

How many games does Aaron? and Rogers play. The over-underer is going to be what? Come on, 13, 14. 15. Come on. He'll play. Okay. Okay, hold on. We don't have the schedule in front of us, but you know, a rough kind of... I'll go 10 and 7. All done. 10 and 7, solid. Let's playoff. By the way,

would you agree, Zach Wilson's probably the leaker, his camp of this? A lot of the stuff just see... But hold on. Set with the starting quarterback and hack it. But Rogers was so good to Zach. And Zach, idolized Rogers. At the beginning, he was. It sounds like in the story that petered out here the end. Yeah, but does

Does that matter, does it matter if Zach Wilson doesn't like Aaron? Who cares? Who cares? I think he's trying to help his stock going forward. I think this division is going to look the same, because I don't think Miami's going anywhere with two and McDaniel. I think Buffalo's fine. New England's going to be bad, maybe improved, but bad. They don't have any weapons. I think the Jets will be a viable 9-10 win team. So I had them at 9-10 this year. You know, I'm not not, but I will say this. Nine or 10 wins in the NFC can be Detroit. I can get the conference championship. Nine or ten in the AFCs not getting into the conference championship.

So Burroughs back. Herbert's back, back. And Buffalo, Baltimore, Miami, Kansas City. They're not going anywhere. And also, Sean Payton and Russell Wilson are not going to be awful for the first six weeks. Regardless of, we don't know where Russell's going to be next year. Maybe they get a quarterback. Maybe they don't.

But Denver's, I have to assume, be better. And the Raiders will be better. That whole division is going to be tough. Jaguars with Trevor Lawrence. Jaguars, I mean... AFC, if the Jets win 9 to 10... The Texans? The Colts?

By the way, Shane Stuyken has Anthony Ray... Again, 10 wins in the AFC doesn't mean... Doesn't guarantee anything. 10 wins in the NFC, you're a playoff. You're Sean Watson's back as well. I know you love him a lot. Cleveland was... They're going to be very good next year.

I thought Stafansky was probably the coach of the year. Over Campbell? Over Ryan's? Yeah, Campbell's got way better players and one quarterback. Demico? Nice story. I go to Dmitico. get to the playoffs with four quarterbacks, you win my coach of the year.

In the AFC, in a division with Pittsburgh's roster, Baltimore's roster. Okay, Jets have, let's see. So the Jets play, we made this a Jets segment. The AFC West, oh, good luck. Awesome. Awesome. And the AFC North, so they get the Lions, Jordan, or AFC. So the AFC West and North.

Okay, okay. Oh, that's brutal. All right, so you got John Payton, Antonio Pierce? Just think of the quarterbacks. Okay. The Jets are going to face beyond Josh Allen twice and Tua twice. They're going to face Mahalms, Herbert, and Russell Wilson, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, and Deshawn Watson.

They have an elite defense. Well, they better stay healthy. They do have a great defense. Maybe instead of 10 and 7, I'm going to go. 8, 9, 9, and 8. Kind of like J-Max rec team. Remember? No. They didn't they beat the Eagles last year? Jets did?

They did. They did late in the season. And they fought hard against the Chiefs. I don't remember. They battled the Chiefs on a Monday night game that was actually really close. AFC West, AFC North. That was like, that's brutal. Okay, I got to read. You got to read that.

8 and 9. We got free agency. We got the draft. No, Carolina on that schedule. All right. Great stuff. As always from you. NFL Insider, Bleacher Report, Jordan Shultz.

And back with you. J-Mack herd line next thing. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Pauli Fusco here with Tony Fusco. You know, as the host of the number one rated Pauli and Tony Fusco show, we get tons and tons of fan mail every day. Piles of it. In fact, Tony, why don't you open up one of those letters right now and read what's inside? Yeah, listen to this.

Dear Pauley and Tony, your sports takes are the dumbest and most terrible... Not that one. Wait, what? Open this other one. Dear Paulie and Tony, you suck more than anyone. Not that one. Wait, try this one. Dear Paulie and Tony, you guys are the absolute best.

There you go. At coming up with the stupidest takes possible. You know what, just forget what those clowns say. Just listen to the Pauli and Tony Fusco show on the IHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Yeah. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment.

And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, personal health, personal health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th

with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two.

Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, we had made a mistake earlier. The jet schedule is actually the AFC South and the NFC West, which is no day at the beach because you get Stafford, Brock Purdy, Kyler Murray. You're also going to get Trevor Lawrence,

C.J. Stroud, Anthony Richardson and Shane Steichen, Josh Allen twice, two at twice. You also get Russell Wilson. Not a lot of those guys scare me. I'll be honest. Tyler Murray doesn't scare me. I'm not like up at night worrying about game planning for Kylo Murray. Really?

Like Stratt had a good year. The Jets bodybagged him in New York in a ring game. He got literally knocked out of the game. So they face our bad. AFC South, NFC West, which is I wouldn't want to face the AFC North. I don't want to face Burrell Lamar. Yeah, that schedule is actually, I don't say favorable. No, it's not good.

You're not nervous about Seattle. I mean, sorry. You face, by the way, as a defensive coach, you face offensive coach Jacksonville. Offensive coach twice Miami. Offensive coach Rams. Offensive coach San Francisco. Offensive coach Indianapolis. Offensive coach Minnesota.

Offensive coach Denver. I'm going to take O Coach over D-coach most of the time. Am I wrong on that? That's not goal of report. Jay Mack with a news. No. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So we talked last hour about the Seahawks locking up Mike McDonald, the defensive coordinator of the Ravens. He's 36 years old. which is kind of insane. Now the youngest head coach in the NFL, this is a big swing from Pete Carroll, who was the oldest coach in the league in 2023. Wow, that's like a 37-year swing, something like that, 36-37?

I think Washington dropped the ball here. I like McDonald a lot more than others. I just thought he was tremendous. And by the way, he did a great job against Shanahan and almost all of his coaching tree guys. Now he faces Shanahan twice. we'll face McVeigh who they struggled with in the room. Well, he'll be as good as his quarterback.

He's not going to win any games if he doesn't have a quarterback. Great with all your defensive schemes. This league doesn't end up 13, 12 games. You've got to get to 20. So can he get a quarterback, then get him 20? I think they could be a playoff team in the NFC next year. I'm not doubting that. I think they could too.

I honestly thought nothing against Pete Carroll. I thought they underachieve last year. How can you be last in total defense for two years? I love their linebackers. I love their corners. They've got a rush end I kind of like. They've got an interior lineman I like. And I think they have excellent young receivers,

tight end, running back weapons, good offensive tackles. I thought they underachieve last year. All right, let's get to the Chiefs and the Super Bowl. They have chosen to wear their red jerseys for the Super Bowl this season. So that means the Niners will be wearing white. This could bode well for San Francisco. Why?

Teams wearing white jerseys 16 and 3 in the Super Bowl since 2004. however one of those losses did come from the Niners in Super Bowl 54 obviously fun and silly white jersey team 16 and 3 I don't bet those those props don't do it for me I know people that bet the the coin toss

100,000 dollars tails never fails like that's just stupid but this is they always bet the duration of the anthem which people get all geeked about that just doesn't do it for me well I think Super Bowl's fun

because every family member can play along. It's kind of a... Yeah, but before the Super Bowl, aren't you doing like the squares and buying squares at whatever Super Bowl party you go? Are you having a Super Bowl party, by the way? Nope.

Probably watch it by myself. Solo? I take notes on the Super Bowl. You know what I did last week for those games? I have reams of paper. I take notes the entire time. I'm totally boring. People, what are you doing in the games?

And I'm like, because I had a buddy call, hey, what are you doing? And I'm like, nothing. I'm boring. And this is what I have. Are you doing anything exotic for food or because you're so low, you're just like, you know, rummaging. Well, I'm not going to buy, I'm not going to order out. You'll never get food. So I'll be stocked at home and I'll probably cook myself something.

That's sounding a little sad. Well, it's not sad. You're culminating the NFL season by sitting alone, taking notes and eating like weak old Cheetos. Well, that's not what I'm going to eat. But, you know, it is a workday for us. The American public, they got to go get liquored up. It's a work day for us. Super Bowl parties last year, boozing at both of them.

And I came in and I gave 100%. It was an awesome Super Bowl. That's your perception of it. We thought you were closer to 70%. Final story. Joel Embed, oh man. Left knee injury last night in the fourth quarter was invisible pain after Cominga. Oh, look at that. Kind of lands on him.

Camiga's... He's a large individual. Ow, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow. Now, Embed missed two games prior with the soreness. Everybody was mocking him from missing the Denver showdown with the Yonk. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. He's been, and you know I'm not the biggest Mbid guy,

he's been the best player this regular season in the NBA. Unbelievable stats. He's not going to get enough games to win the MVP award because of this new 65 game limit. I understand why Halliburton earlier you mentioned he bashed the 65 game mark. But like, Mbid clearly has been the best player at home. And now he's going to miss more games, MRI, knee-sortness,

probably out two weeks, who knows. Don't, do you think that's a little bit dumb for the NBA to say, hey, you're playing enough games, you can't qualify for all NBA? I don't think it's dumb at all. I think asking players to play 79% of games, nobody's taking away your game check, nobody's taking away your shoe deal, nobody's taking away your social media deals. They're just saying you're not going to get your bonus if you don't play 79% of the games. And then 15 years from now when people are stacking Joel and B versus David Robinson. Who? David Robinson, the host on WIP?

Who cares? No, you know, the meatballs on it. NBA. Who cares? Slam Magazine. It doesn't matter. Awards don't matter. How many times have you been the radio host of the year? I don't care about a while. I never, I don't care about, you could ask me any award. I watched every Tom Brady snap that he played in arguably. I mean, almost every one. I have no. I think he was an MVP in the Super Bowl five times.

It could have been four. Who cares? It's called Google. I don't memorize anymore. I memorized when I was 12 and then Google happened, you know, and I was probably 40 or 30 or whatever. was and then I didn't have to memorize sports anymore. Just look it up. So I don't think that it's just the stat part of this whole thing. Just never, I mean, Derek Jeter's a great player. I don't need to see the back of his baseball card. You know he can play.

We don't have time here to go into it. But you mentioning like, oh, the stats are nice. Like, well, then what are we using to compare players and historic greatness? Your eyes, titles, your eyes. Your eyes. The eye test is what matters, right? Okay. You know who had really passed the eye?

No, you're saying awards. Yeah, Mahomes is great. Titles. Better than Marino, no titles. I don't care about your MVP's. What is it, Matt? Aaron Rogers has never been a great come from behind quarterback. I can see that with my eyes.

I don't need stats to tell. Oh, he did this. You have to quantify it. Some guys have great offensive coordinators. Matt Stafford's a lot better in L.A. now than he was in Detroit. It's got a better coach. So if Matt Stafford would have had better coaching,

Stafford would be viewed much differently. What if Matt Stafford would have been with McVey for 12 years? I guarantee he's got three Super Bowls. So, I mean, again, if, I mean, if Belichick doesn't have Brady, what is he? Probably nothing special. So I think all these stats and awards that so much of it's who was your coach, who was your star player, who was your owner? It's very hard to win Super Bowls in, I think Stefansky's a great coach. Cleveland's ownership, not been great.

So, I mean, I think the kid at Minnesota, Kevin O'Connell, I think it's, I think he's tremendous coach. To bring it back to NBA. Then have a quarterback that's Mahomes like. So Joel Embed, injuries, as in one of finals, better career. Joel Embedd or Patrick Ewing? Joel Embed is a better player? Why has I?

I've watched both of them 100 times. Joel M. B's a better player. Offensively, I don't think it's that close. I can't get to the conference finals to save his life, but he's a better player. Got it. Okay. Ryan. Joel M. B.

He's a much better offensive player. He's very talented. He's like the closest thing to Shaq we've had. Yeah. Patrick Ewan just happened to run up against this guy named Jordan, and when Jordan left, who's in the final? Patrick Ewing, baby. They did lose to a Lazoan, but they got to the finals.

You think Ewing's better than B. I don't know that Embed's definitely better. Talent, maybe, but like better player overall? I think it's very close than I would lean Patrick Ewing. I'm a Yling guy. I'm a Knicks fan. You, okay. When Ewing's done playing, Mbid's got minimum five years left,

it's not going to be close. With that body? I don't need an MVP. I don't need a title from Barclay or Embed. They're all-time greats. Okay. All-time great great. What does that mean?

That means you're an all-time top-20-ish player. Barkley top 20? Absolutely. The only people that argued that didn't see him play. Charles was, there's three ways to score. Down low perimeter transition. He was an A at all. of them. Michael Jordan wasn't an A from the perimeter. He was a mid-range shooter.

Yeah. He was good in transition, great low. Barclay. Here we go. Pippet or Barclay. Barkley, not close. Not close. Not even close. Not even close. J. Mack with the news. There you go. Yeah, Barclay's a much better player than Pippen. I just floated it. I didn't say Pippin, but. Come on. That's not even a debate. That's not even a debate. I'm going to lead tomorrow's show with this. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast Guaranteed Human