The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Hour 3 - The NFL preseason

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

Why NFL teams should NOT play their starters during preseason games Tyler Guyton injured at Cowboys camp   Guests: GEOFF SCHWARTZ, BEN VOLINSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

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podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again,

I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis coming to you, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen point game on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Therapy is fantastic, but once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create

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Find your local station for the herd at foxportsredio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome back in to The Hurt. I'm Danny Parkins in for Colin. This is another surreal one for me because when I was doing radio in Kansas City, I also kind of cover, you know,

the Chiefs to get us sound for the radio show. And I was looking around and I was like, I don't know any of these guys. None of these guys went to Syracuse. That was the only football team I had ever covered before. And I was looking at the list and I was like, Jeff Schwartz, I'll go up to the Jewish offensive linemen and we'll become friends.

So Jeff Schwartz, Fox Sports analyst, former linemen, host of Fairbets with Chris Felica is with us on the herd. We've come very far, Jeff, from Kansas City. We certainly have. Yeah, I mean, I came on, I think your show once a week against the best wishes of the people in charge for some reason. They just didn't like you. I think it was a rival with a thing, right? You guys were the station that didn't cover the Chiefs, I think.

Yeah, it doesn't matter, but they really didn't like that you and I liked each other. It was very odd, but I'm glad to be with you now. Yes, and we're glad to have you. for four years in a row I have picked the Pittsburgh Steelers to have their first losing season under Mike Tomlin and I have just every year I'm like they can't keep getting

away with this and then they do and then this off season I actually think the moves on the chessboard made sense and I like what they did especially the John Hussmith ad for what they need with Aaron Rogers so I'll probably be wrong again but do you buy into what the Steelers have done heading into this year

yeah I mean look in the short term yes I've also been with you on losing money on Pittsburgh's under every year. I did it twice last year. It took two wages. It didn't matter. Look, I think that in the short term, this is the best they could have done. But my thought process, like, if the short term to worry about in the long term, right?

The long term is this team will look vastly different next season without Rogers as their quarterback, right? And they get older on defense with all their superstars. So in this year, this is probably the best they could have done. Could they have drafted Sanders at 21, sure? but they got Aaron Rogers, right? Who I think we all agree right now better than Sanders. They went and got some weapons on defense. They got some guys in offense.

Like, yeah, they did the best they could, but is it good enough in this division to really do much damage? I'd argue no, right? The division winners every year tend to be the best quarterback in the division. The best quarterback in the division is not Aaron Rogers. It's Lamar or it's Joe Burrow. Joe Borough has a defensive issue. So it's probably the Ravens.

So what becomes of this Pittsburgh team? Do they win 10 games again and lose? in the first round of the postseason. I don't know what the end goal is for this year. Just to be competent, just to make the playoffs again, just to be over 500. So again, they did what they had to do to put together a team this season.

But long term, this does nothing for them. I agree with that. I just think they don't have it in them to tank and rebuild. And yeah, they'll win 10 games, losing the wild card round of the playoffs and then be in the exact same spot they were in before. But they will be very interesting. And as you mentioned, in the AFC, you got to be more than interesting.

I've seen you on social media talking about Josh Simmons with the Chiefs. The explosiveness has left that offense the last couple of years, which is bizarre for a team that won 15 games and two years ago wins a Super Bowl. Simmons at left tackle, worthy, rice, Hollywood Brown, healthy and playing together. What do you expect from the Chief's offense this season? I know people have Chiefs fatigue. and you're going to have it for one more season, guys. It's going to be more than that.

Think about last year, right? Think about last year. So, he entered the season, very clearly Rayshy Rice was going to be the number one option on offense. And he was. He had nearly 30 catches in three weeks. He gets hurt. Now you're left with Hollywood Brown already hurt, he's heard in the preseason,

Rashid Rice hurt, and Travis Kelsey, who did not want to rely on to be your offense, right? You wanted these other wide receivers to help you out. So it turns into basically being a Travis Kelsey lead offense. And then a bunch of guys. guys sort of around him. Now, where they got better throughout the season, but it's hard to rely on a rookie in this office. We've seen so many examples of first year wide receivers, not even

just rookies, but Juju mentioned this specifically. We play one of them the first time. He said, it took me 12 weeks to figure out where I need to be in the office. Look at Ray She Rice's first season. When did it click? About 12 weeks and into the playoffs. So there was really no one there to help with the passing game until the end of the season when Brown came back. But by Again, he never really played with Patrick Mahomes. Enter this season, where he writes, healthy, ready to go. Now, he will be suspended, I would imagine at some point. But Brown, healthy, ready to go, worthy year too.

Travis Kelsey, looks like he lost 20 pounds. He looks great right now. I think last year we can admit, maybe came in a little bit overweight and a little bit out of shape. This year, not the case. He looks fantastic this season, right? And you add in Royals, you had the offensive line. Yeah, they lose Joe Tuny. That's going to be a loss for them.

They're figuring out left guard right now. but Simmons looks like a steal already. He looks great right now left tackle. He was going to be off of the tackle one before he got hurt. The question I have is, why did no one else know he was going to be able to play so soon? The thought was you draft Simmons and he has to sit for a little bit. He's the day one starter at tackle. You add in obviously more to play somewhere, left guard maybe or right tackle.

So, Danny, this feels like an offense that's just going to return to what it's been now. It's never going to be the Tyreek Hill offense. That's never going to happen again. That was a special player, a special offense, but it does feel like they're going to return to pass the ball down the field a little bit because they have healthy wide receivers. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific

on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it.

Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing. a bit for the podcast for people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funny. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

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Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. I'm with you. Justin Herbert is in that division was in the playoffs. Bo Nix in the division in the playoffs. Raiders upgraded coach and quarterback certainly got better. We'll see what happens. But on Herbert specifically, people say he's all hype. He's all hypothetical. He's all eye test. What do you make of what he's done and where he's going? I think like 27 teams that would like to have that eye test in their building.

Sure. He looks good throwing the football. wow, of course, you get to a certain point in your career. He was there very quickly where the talent and skills were very obvious, right? From his first start, which was odd enough against the Chiefs, right? Remember the punctured long and he played against Kansas City in week two that year? And incredible, like, immediately good. So when you immediately become good, we started judging you on other things, right? Quarterback wins, which isn't really a stat per se, but we judge you on that.

And then we judge you on like big moments in games, right? Do you make those plays on third down? Do you make those plays in two-minute drill? Do you make those plays now in the postseason? And Herbert's at the point now where he's only going to be judged in his career on postseason success. That's all it is. We know he can play. But it's all in front of him.

We know that. So now it's a matter of postseason success. And he hasn't had that yet. I think that's why people are down on him. When you say like, oh, he's so talented, he looks the part, why is there not the playoff success? It's always the next question. So that's where he's at in his career. He's evolved now is one of the better quarterbacks in the league.

league, it only matters what he does in the postseason. How many quarterbacks do we look at that way, right? Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Burrow, Jalen Hertz probably now. Stafford maybe. We look at the otherwise. No one else. Herbert's up in that class now where he can do everything he needs to do on the field. Now do it in the postseason.

So you've played on a bunch of different teams. You've seen a lot of different young quarterbacks. The reports are Caleb Williams struggling very early with the install of Ben Johnson's offense. But then you talk to people there and they're like, we want him to be drinking out of a fire hose. We want to overload him early. We'll see what he can handle. Then we'll scale it back as it goes.

In terms of realistic expectations of this type of offense, that type of talent, and all of the newness, what would you say is reasonable to expect from Caleb in the offense this year? So what you want to see when you have a new coach and quarterback, and I mentioned the chief squad receivers with Mahomes, it does take like eight to ten weeks for a new offense to get going. It just does, right? Like you need to see, so you mentioned they throw the whole playbook at him. They're going to do that because they need to see what works for Caleb Williams. Ben Johnson might have a thought, okay, these are the plays that I think will work for Caleb Williams. You get into practice and preseason games, and those don't work.

So they have to change and run different plays that work for him. You also have to play this thing against that defense, and it takes time to figure all those things out. That's why it takes sometimes a 10-12. I'll give you another example of how that works on, like the Eagles defense last season, right? It took half a season to figure out what works, what calls do we do, where do guys go, who needs to play, what's the rotation? It just takes time.

So you have to have some patience here. The thing I will say, though, is that the only reports that worry me is, like, with a quarterback like, I think he's going to be good. And I'll move off of that opinion if I need to at some point based on some more evidence. It does worry me, Danny, that we just haven't seen, at least reports, right, of like, wow. Like, there's some, like, you typically know with young guys,

there's some wowness in practice. And that only part of that worries me. We haven't seen much of like, wow, this was really great. It's also mostly been negative, which isn't great. But I understand how they're trying to build him up in this offense. I'm going to ignore the last 15 seconds of that answer. as a Paris fan from Chicago. Because I saw some wow in games last year.

So give me another couple of weeks before I get a little worried that there's not enough wow moments in practice. We have a Hall of Fame game this week. So that means preseason is starting. I know it was practice. And I know the Cowboys got lucky that Tyler Guyton did not tear his ACL as initially feared. But I am very risk-averse when it comes to playing guys in preseason. and I know injuries can happen in practice.

I understand that, and I know injuries are inevitable. Where do you come out on playing guys who matter in meaningless football games? I'm on the side of playing them a little bit. I saw it in my career, and I also just go off of what we see the better coaches do. Now, to be fair, this is mostly the older guys that are the better coaches, right? There are young coaches that don't play their guys. But Andy Reid, man, plays a starters every year. like there's a value in that the chiefs start hot every year when i was in kansas city we had a tough

training camp we played our starters and we came out in week one and kicked and kicked butt like we were ready to go um there's always risk in football injuries happen all the time um it's interesting that the bengals for example have talked about playing starters this year because they start slow every year like you do you need some of those reps at least i believe you do you need to play a half like we used to play, no, but also to mentally, when you are playing in a preseason game, you treat that week of practice or a couple days for the most part like it's a game. So you mentally prepare like you would for week one or week two or week three. You start going through your checklist of how do I get ready on Saturday night? How do I warm up? How do I feel in paths? Like all the little

things you do, what's my pregame routine? Even though you mostly know what it is, right? But you get to rehearse that. So when you get to week one, It's like you haven't done it in eight, nine months. And I get it. It's a physical sport. Things happen. But you would also think, like, would it be odd if a baseball player did take any live batting practice before they, or live at batts before they played a baseball game, right?

Like, you would think that was kind of weird. Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying, like, two drives. I think two drives the first game, one drive the first game, two to second game. It's just something. And the injury thing, like, it's very rare. We think it happens all the time when ones are playing. ones, it doesn't happen. They know how to play to not get hurt if that makes sense. So I'm a fan

of playing some of the preseason. I get why teams don't, but it seems to work out for some of the better coaches in the NFL. All right, so you host Bear Betts with Chris Felica. I've been a guest. I don't want you to keep mentioning that I was 65% against the spread in the NFL last year. Stop bringing it up. Stop. But I want to get you out of here with a bet. Yeah. Anything on the board. A Super Bowl pick, a prop. I don't care. Give me an NFL? Give me an NFL bet for this season.

Yes, sir. So I think my favorite one right now is the Giants under five and a half wins. It's a little juice now. That's okay. The problem is this with the Giants. I actually think they're a better team this year than last season. They're better quarterback. They're healthy and offensive line.

Neighbors is good. Defensively, they were good last year to add at Abdul Carter. But their schedule, Danny, is so hard. Like that's the problem. Look at their schedule. It's ridiculous. I'll tell my head it's like, it's like commanders, cowboys, two AFC West teams at New Orleans. And then it's like Eagles, Broncos, Niners, Lions, Bears.

It's just horrific schedule. And so that's my concern. I actually think they're better this year. But their schedule is very difficult. So I have Giants under five and a half wins. Yeah. At Washington, at Dallas, Kansas City and the Chargers are the first four. That feels like 0 and 4 out of the shoot.

Listen to Bear Bets. Listen to Jeff Schwartz. watch him. You're a good man and thorough. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, buddy. Appreciate it. All right. We'll talk soon. That's Jeff Schwartz, terrific Fox, NFL analyst. Coming up next, Drake May. I own a lot of stock in this kid. I think he's going to be an absolute star. Is he ready to take that next leap? We head to Boston. Next, The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Heard weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news?

huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we

actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, Hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas,

and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy.

Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm Breast. breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian win.

I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Back in on the herd, Danny Parkins, in for Colin. I'll be back doing this again tomorrow. We've got an NFL game on Thursday. We've made it to football season. College football right around the corner, trade deadline in baseball, any sort of slow time that people think it is coming up in the past. Let's talk to a terrific NFL reporter right now and head to Boston, where he's covered the NFL since 2007, senior NFL writer for the Boston Globe. Ben Volan joins us on the

herd. Ben, thank you very much for the time. Very few teams in the NFL have undergone more change than the Patriots from last year to this, and Drake May did not have much talent around them last year, but I thought acquitted himself very well. I think he looks like a future star. I own a lot of stock in that kid. What are you expecting in terms of a year one to year two growth for Drake May with all these new people around him? Well, for any NFL player, I think it goes without saying you want to see that big jump from year one to year two. And especially for the Patriots, you want to see that from Drake May now that you've got a much better and much much more credible team around him. You've got a real coaching staff with all due respect to last year's coaches now

with Mike Rable, Josh McDaniels running the offense, a lot of of experience on this staff. Now, Stefan Diggs is the best receiver of the Patriots have had in a long time, assuming he can come back healthy and be close to what he was. They've spent the most money in free agency over $180 million fully guaranteed. They brought in like 10 new starters on both sides of the ball, new offensive linemen, new defense, new receivers, just everything new to upgrade the situation around Drake Bay. So, yeah, if they go 4 and 13 again, that's a terrible sign for May in the franchise.

I think they want to see a nice jump here in year two, not only in Drake May's performance, but in the team's one loss record. Offseason videos with Cardi B are one thing. How does Stefan Diggs look? But, you know, Stefan Diggs, I got to say it looks fantastic. And yes, he got off to a bad start with that video in Miami, not what your new coaching staff wants to see when you're joining a new team.

But Stefan Diggs showed up to the offseason program towards the end. And then I think most impressively passed his physical to start, training camp, putting him at full go just eight months after having ACL surgery. So I think a real testament to how hard, despite the video, how hard Stefan Diggs worked on his rehab in the offseason, how hard he's been putting in time both away from the Patriots and now with the team. And he looks good. You know, it's almost to the point where it almost might not be fair to him because he's coming back from an ACL receivers. That first month is going to be a little slow. But he looks really good. his teammate, Kendrick Bourne, said he jokes with Stefan Diggs, says he's going to have an Adrian

Peterson-type season. You remember, Adrian Peterson rushed for 2,000 yards coming off of his torn ACL. So again, maybe the expectations, not quite fair for Stefan Diggs, but physically he looks great so far. The Patriots maybe had the worst offensive line in football last year in terms of talent and production. They used this top five pick on Will Campbell. I've seen some conflicting reports on how he's looked so far. What do you think about how he's zone? making the transition. Well, yesterday was the first day in pads, and he got tossed around a little bit by veteran Keon White, and that is a concern with Will Campbell.

Keon White is a big, lanky, physical, defensive end. And Will Campbell, you know, we heard it all throughout the pre-draft process, the short arms, the narrow shoulders, is he going to be able to handle the defensive ends who have the long reach here in the NFL? So day one, not so great. Also, a little surprising. I want to cut them some slack, but the heat here in Foxborough has been very hot this week, and the heat definitely got on top of Will Campbell the last couple days where you think maybe

a guy from LSU is maybe used to it, but it's been very hot here. And Will Campbell, the heat has definitely gotten to him, but it's early. It's only two days in pads. He did have a much better day today. But, you know, the real question is going to be the arm length thing, and I think it's a real concern. It's one thing for him to block guys in training camp and the preseason. but what happens when he's got to go against Miles Garrett and T.J. Watt and some of these,

you know, elite pass rushers that the Patriots are probably going to face this year. So we're not going to have the answers to that question until Will Campbell steps on the field and does it, you know, so far, kind of an up and down performance, but it is still early for Will Campbell. Yeah, it's early for everybody. And, you know, we maybe should have talked about the addition of head coach, Mike Grable, at the start, because it's a homecoming, it's in theory, a floor raising thing, it's discipline, it's competence. What is a Mike Vrable training camp like so far?

Well, I don't know how much credit he deserves versus just the circumstances, but one thing that stands out compared to last year is there is no drama. Last year, Gerard Mayo trying to build a program had to deal with Matthew Judon, upset about his contract. They got a big fight at practice.

They had to throw Judon out. He comes back to scream more at the coach. Just a lot of drama. They eventually traded into Atlanta and moved on. Mike Vrabel has had nothing of the sort to deal with. Everyone is under contract. Everyone is happy. Everyone generally knows their role or knows what they're competing for.

And it's been very calm and business-like and professional. And that, I think, also speaks to the larger point of why Mike Vrable was brought in just for credibility. Gerard Mell, with all due respect, was learning on the fly. And that coaching staff they gave him last year, no one had any experience. The play callers on both sides were doing it all for the first time. Now it's Mike Vrable's been a head coach for six years. He's one coach of the year. Josh McDaniels has been a coordinator from 15 years.

All the defensive coaches are Vrable's guys from Tennessee. These are guys who have a plan. They know what they want to do. And it's just a very professional sort of training camp so far with no drama and no real hiccups yet for Mike Ravel. How is Mike Vrable similar and how is he different from Bill Belichick? Great question. Well, I think the fact that he's younger and a former player just gives him boatloads of credibility with the players. Like, Jabrille Pepper's, the safety was joking.

It made a joke to Mike Grable. And Vrabble's response was, yeah, why don't you go check out the Patriots Hall of Fame and then get back to me? So it's like, that was a great one. The guys got three Super Bowl rings and he's in the team Hall of Fame. It just gives him so much more credibility, which, you know, Belichick, a genius. He can never, you know, manufacture that. He was never a player the way Vrabel was. And Brable, I mean, he is the most active head coach I've ever seen in practice.

He puts on the scout team Penny. He's playing free safety on the scout team defense, and he's getting up in drills. He's coaching guys one-on-one. He's wearing the blocking pad. Like Mike Grable is 49, almost 50 years old. Don't tell him that. He still thinks he's playing in the NFL that he's so active. I do see similarities as well.

He's a very smart coach. This is the guy that he stole a win over Miami a couple years ago, smartly going for two. you know, late, the analytic, following the analytics, that sort of thing. But then also the way he coaches, and this is obvious because Vrabel spent 12 years playing for Belichick. So he's going to take a lot of Belichick's tactics. But the one thing you see from Vrable is he's constantly quizzing guys and peppering them with questions and keeping them on their toes, whether it's, you know, what did we talk about in the meeting yesterday, or what do you do in this situation on third and six versus when was the last time the Patriots won a division title?

he's just he's always quizzing guys and keeping them on their toes and that was like a staple of bill bellichick's coaching style and it it creates accountability as well because you don't want to be the one guy who kind of lets down the position group or shows that you're not prepared um so i i you know there there are all kinds of uh similarities but you know things that brave will learn from belichick but he's also being a younger guy and a former player definitely his own man as coach so it's years now since the Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft, professional divorce, but they just can't quit each other. Sometimes it's like, oh, you're doing something kind of interesting

and taking a shot together at the Netflix roast. And then it's like, oh, that's kind of weird. You're taking shots at each other because Robert Kraft wants to get into the Hall of Fame. And he's like, I took a huge risk on Bill Belichick. And then Bill Belichick's at North Carolina issuing statements being like, I actually took a big risk on you because you actually, what do you make of it? Like, what context is relevant here as to why we are still dealing with the fallout of the professional separation between Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick?

Well, I think it just shows how bad the relationship is between the two. And it's only gotten worse since Kraft fired Belichick a year and a half ago. So I think, you know, it's all there for us to see just how poorly the, how poor the relationship is right now. And that shot of alcohol, they took at the Netflix for us that you mentioned. I mean, if you watch Belichick, you want it nothing to do with that, I'm trying to put them on the spot. Belichick wanted nothing to do with that. For me, personally, being in the media, I love it.

It's great material. It gives us something to talk about. But I think for the fans, you know, the word divorce, as you said, I think that's right. It's like watching your parents divorce. And it's like, can't we just stop the fighting? Because it just, the more they fight, it just seems like it detracts from everything they accomplished here over two decades.

And it really just, it looks like, you know, Brady was so much of the end. engine of this thing and these two are just like fighting for scraps of credit. And it's like, you know, I and a lot of other people, I think were on Team Bill last year when that Apple documentary, the dynasty came out. It was just the crafts just like bashing Belichick needlessly. Like that was, that was a bad look for the crafts. And I think Belichick got a lot of sympathy out of that.

But then this little dust up, as you said, no, you know, Belichick having this lengthy response about some innocuous quote that craft made. It's like, well, now Belichick doesn't look great either. And I think that's the point. The more of these guys fight, it doesn't look good for anyone. You know, you fight with a skunk and everyone comes out smelling pretty badly. So I love it. It's great material, but I think for the fans and for their legacy,

I think it would behoove them all to just kind of knock it off and just kind of go their separate ways and let it be for a while. How will you define success for Bill Belichick at North Carolina? you know if he can win a few more games than just what the schedule lays out for them you know this first year it's going to be tough they have i think 70 new players on that roster and it's still uncc football i don't know what kind of recruiting they were able to do and you know as the last few years in new england proved with belichick he's not exactly a miracle worker when they have talent he was great with the patriots when they didn't have talent especially a

quarterback they were very mediocre and then pretty bad at the end so You know, if you're Carolina, you just want, A, you want Bill to sell out the stadium, you want to be on national TV. I think that's a win in and of itself for UNC, the fact that they've sold out the season tickets already. They're going to have a behind-the-scenes documentary. They're going to be all over TV this fall. So that's a win for the tardials.

And then if, you know, to be impressed with the coaching job by Belichick, you don't want to just see another 7 and 5 UNC season. You want to see 10 and 2, winning a few games on the road, beating ranked teams. and showing some of that, you know, Belichick magic that he used to have with the Patriots. Ben Volan covers the NFL for the Boston Globe. Great stuff, man. Thank you very much for the time. We appreciate you.

Awesome. Thanks, Danny. Thank you. Patriots are a fascinating team, but really, Drake May. I mean, that quarterback class from last year, it's remarkable. Jaden Daniels has the best rookie season. Any of us have ever seen when you combine the statistical performance, what they asked of him to do, and then,

you know, the wins. Caleb Williams was the number one pick. The Bears didn't even consider drafting anyone else. Drake May had the least help. I mean, he had no coach, no offensive line, and no pass catchers. And as the year went on, it was just like, oh my God, Drake May is making plays. The stats weren't insane, but just, again, if you watch the games,

it was very clear he belonged. Justin Herbert, by the way. Little eye test, little similarities between Drake May and my guy, Justin Herbert. then Pennix, only three games, looks good. Bo Nicks, 29 touchdowns, second most ever for a rookie in the playoffs. His first games, he was terrible. And then J.J. McCarthy is just sitting over there with a national championship with an elite offensive head coach and Kevin O'Connell.

And he gets to come in to a team that won 14 games last year with one of the five best wide receiver duos in the NFL. There's a real chance that we're going to look back at last year's quarterback class. And in two years, be like, is this the best quarterback class? ever? Is it going to be in that conversation? Like, how good can it be? So, and I think Drake May is at the focal point there because they've made a ton of upgrades around him. So all of those guys. And they've got joint practices, by the way, the Patriots with the Vikings and the commanders. So we're going to get Drake May v. Jaden, Drake May v. J.J. McCarthy coming up

this training camp. Fun day here on the herd. Thanks again to everybody for welcoming me and making it so easy. Can't wait to get going on the new expanded first things first, which is coming. up in just a little bit. Before that, I'm back in for Colin tomorrow. So you're not done with me yet. Danny Park is in for Colin on the herd. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way

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