The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Jenkins and Jonez - Jokic MVP Discourse

Episode Date: February 23, 2023

The guys discuss the nuanced Nikola Jokic MVP discourse, if gushers are candy, how cold is cold weather, and more. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The volume. It's Jenkins and Jones, presented by Fandul. The NBA season is kicking into gear, and there's no better place to get in on the action than Fandul. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. Fanduel has exclusive offers, boosts, and more all month long. When you win, you'll get paid fast. Fanduel has lots of ways to play, like the spread, money line, over, unders, team totals, player props, and so much more. Jump into the action at any time during the game with live betting,

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Thanks for listening wherever you're listening To this very stupid episode I'm gonna make a promise up front This is gonna be a really stupid episode Are you all comfortable with that? Hey man hell yeah Fuck it All right

Is every episode not been stupid To an extent though? We dumb as fuck We dumb We dumb as hell dick As always Jenkins and Jones Hosted by Dragonfly Jones

A.K.A. Tyler Everybody have the gun With Jetrow Jenkins A.K.A. John who beat both of us to the Zoom today. What's that, Bubba? We ain't going to talk about it. We're going to talk about it.

No, credit where's due, John? Black history was made this man. Hey, Tyler, you was late for about three years straight, digger. I mean, when we ain't have, it's different in the Patreon days, bro. We just kind of, it was not a hard, you know, to hop on it.

It was a window. You know what I'm saying? It was like a 10, 50 minute window. There was a day where we were supposed to be on the pot at night. Black history was making. Before Mike got on here, you got on at 11, nigga. It was an hour. I ain't never been, no, no.

It wasn't. I ain't never been an hour and a half late. I'm, actually, I'm going to hit my home grill that was like, is there going to be a pod today? Because I was sitting there. Well, hold, but it's different when you're hanging out. You can show up a half hour late to hang out with your friend. I didn't care. But it's producers now.

Dude, it's been like, what, two months that I've been late? Because it's because of my workouts. I'm reeling it in. I'm reeling it in, guys. I told us. I was complimenting you. I don't know why you're being so defensive. Tyler said you made history, bro.

He wants to put you up on the mural. Like, I ain't never been on time. Come on, man. Give me my credit. Let's me. All right. I'm guarding me,

A.k.a. Hey, wait, wait. Hey, we might have started up, bro. I wouldn't record. Jackson, are we good?

That was a good intro, Jackson. Come on. Did you get it? Fine. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. Okay.

You didn't make sure he's recorded too, Jackson? I'm talking everybody out. I said. I said. Did he say that? I said, is everyone recording? Damn, I'm tripping. That's about two, three times out this motherfucker.

I'm tripping. All right, bro. Let's run around. Let's come on. And John didn't move his camera down as ghost Jackson. Nick, nigga, hey, all being jumped, bro. Y'all need to chill out, nigga. That'll teach you to show up on time, John.

I'm showing up on time from here on now, though. It's a new me. I'm telling you all right. All right. talk about. I do before we get back into being dummies for the rest of the show. I do want to briefly have a serious conversation about Nicola Yoakic being a third consecutive MVP in the NBA, which does appear that it's going to happen unless somebody puts a stop to this madness. I want to just foreground this conversation with a couple pieces of historical context. Number one,

MVP voters vote with history in mind. and it is stupid to pretend that they do not. It is stupid. I've seen some people defending this with the, well, you just got to go by what's happening this year. That is never how the MVP award has been awarded in any sport, especially not in the NBA. Pretending that they should do that or that they have done that is dishonest.

So with that in mind, Yokic will be the ninth three-time MVP. That's iffy, but that's okay. To me, he'll be tied with bird and magic. He will have more MVP's than Steph Curry, Tim Duncan or Janice. He will be the fourth ever, fourth ever person to win three consecutive MVPs with Larry Bird, Wilk Chamberlain, and Bill Russell.

He will be the first in 34 years in the NBA to win three consecutive MVP's. What do you think of that with that context in mind? Um, my thing is, is Yokic has been phenomenal. I don't want to take anything from him. He is absolutely phenomenal. I think he's a top five play in the world. He has, you know, the season he's putting on, it's been one for the ages. But, you know, it goes back to what you said, Mike, about how there's, you know,

there's precedents that have been followed. But it seems like we're always willing to bend these presidents or break away from these presidents for white guys, it feels like, right? Because Janus came up against the, we can't give this guy three straight. He hasn't done anything in the postseason. He came across that. right but we're willing to bend the rules for yokish now you know we gave nash two straight when when i think he probably only earned one of those you know what i mean colby deserved one of them for so yeah and and and and that's my whole thing if we're gonna change the president let's change it you know without you know the white guys who who are just you know the the advanced that nerds love because it seems like people are way more willing to go to bat for those guys to say a guy like yonis you know what i mean and it's so blatant it's so very blatant if he were to get the MVP he deserves the MVP.

He's been the MVP this year. But like you said, with that context you add to it, there's no way he deserves to be considered in any of that. You know what I'm saying? So like, like you said, I mean, and if we're keeping it at a stack, like you said that third MVP, that was Janice,

that was, that was Joe, Joker's first MVP. Right. Probably should have been, probably should have been, and they literally said, I mean, literally part of the narrative was, is Janus on a Mount Rushmore with,

Larry Bird, Wilts Chamberlain, and Bill Russell. No. So it was almost like he's not eligible for a third straight MVP. But as Tyler pointed out, something is different about Yokic. Maybe it's a race thing. Maybe it's a foreign thing. Maybe it's that the analytics conversation over the last three years has changed. It's much louder.

But there's no denying that it would be a real break from history and tradition. I personally think that that's nuts to say Steph Curry, who has done. done more, in my opinion, as an individual to change basketball than anyone since our childhood. Has he had three in a row? Has he? LeBron has not won three in a row. I think they gave his third. Michael Jordan did not win three in a row. Yeah, yeah.

So to me, to consciously make the decision to put Yokic above those guys to me is disrespectful and a historical. I don't give a fuck. I mean, I recognize the greatness of Yokic. And I recognize that he's had the most MVP caliber year. But like I said, I'm having this personally having this conversation in the context of the way these voters have voted for 60 fucking years in the NBA, right? And that's the part of it that bothers me is, again, if you come see eight-year-olds, nine-year-olds, 10-year-olds playing basketball anywhere in America, they're playing Steph Curry's basketball. They're playing a completely different sport than we grew up watching.

That's one human being who changed the game that much. LeBron James, arguably the greatest ever. Michael Jordan, the other person who's arguably the greatest ever. And you're just automatically elevating Yokic over both those guys by doing this. And it honestly feels wrong to me no matter how easily the justification of this year's statistics would make it to vote for. Yeah. And the whole thing is this. You cannot say it's just a regular season award.

That has never been the lens that we have evaluated MVP's through ever in NBA history. there is a factor in the MVP it's okay you are the best player in the world this season you know you have to show us something in the post season as well right like all those guys you mentioned

will Russell Bird they all got a ring or multiple rings in Russell's case during that three run MVP stretch Yokesh hasn't even gone to the finals you know what I mean so so that's my whole thing here is you can't say that it's just a regular season war postseason always factors into it

You know, fucking like, like, you know, Luca, he'd have those postseason where he'd go nuts. And, and he was always kind of a front runner, you know, at the beginning of the season with the odds because of how crazy he went in the postseason. They were like, you know, this might be the season where, you know, he really goes nuts. Regular season and probably does something in the postseason. They always kind of played a factor in how, you know, he had a head start in the odds. Janus's falling short in the playoffs, you know, set him back a bit, handicapped him a bit in the MVP race, you know, for his third one that he would have gotten. So that's my whole thing is that you have to, it's not, it's never been just a regular season award. We have always evaluated it on basketball is the one sport where one player can influence, you know, the outcome more than any other sport.

If you are truly the most valuable player in the world, the best play in the world, you're going to have to show that shit in the postseason. And you talk about the difference between how Yokic is considered versus someone like Braun. Think of the way that people talk shit on Braun losing in the finals. Yokic hasn't been good enough to do it. He hasn't been good enough to do it once to lose in the finals once. And I remember when Braun got that fourth MVP in 2013. It was as obvious, I mean, arguably the most obvious of his four MVPs. Yes, should have been unanimous.

A hundred percent. But because he was being elevated into that top five with Kareem, Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, and Wilts Chamberlain, no one talked about the statistical basis for that year. what they talked about was, is he worthy of being in that top five at this stage of the game? That's what they talked about. And now that it's Yokic 10 years later, all anyone wants to talk about is, well, there's fucking Raptors over 14 right now. How could you even think of giving it to somebody else?

I just think that's crazy. And I think that people talking about this like it just pertains to this year and that the historical context and that the playoff context, as Tyler pointed out, that that's like, we have to separate all that and just look at the numbers for this year. It's like, well, okay, you can make that argument, but you should be honest about the fact that we're doing that for the first time. Do you, I have a question. Do you all believe that Derek Rose should have got the MVP that he got? Um, because I mean, if you look at, look at his numbers, I mean, I know that the Bulls were the best team in the East, one of the best teams in the league. You know what I'm

saying they were playing better than other teams. And he had a great, great season. I don't want to take anything from that. But like, Braun season, Dwight Howard season. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I think like that, and that got in the way of what Bronn getting his third, right? Or three in a row, correct?

It would have been three. And then I think it would have ended up being five because I believe he won two and then Derek Rose and then Braun. And he won two, yeah. I would just, I'm super curious to hear what Tyler has to say. I would just quickly say, I think that in, at the time I did think that and looking back, if they end up giving Yokic three consecutive, and Braun and Steph never got three consecutive, I think retrospectively would be wrong that Braun didn't get three in a row.

I think Derek Rose checked all those boxes where we've seen it so many times in MVP history where if this was a team that wasn't the best team in the league last season, but they become the best team in the league the next season, the best play on that team is usually going to win MVP. That's kind of how that shit works. And Derek Rose checked all those boxes on that. I also think that, you know, that was Brown's first season in Miami. People were like, okay, how, you know, we can't really evaluate Miami's record being that, you know, they're so loaded with D. Wade and Bosch. So that kind of hurt Brown a bit, too.

But yeah, I think, you know, Rose for sure checked all those boxes, you know, elevating a team to be the best team in the league and you're the best playing on that team. He checked all those boxes. But if you look at the numbers, you know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I, like I said, I would give Dwight Howard that MVP before I gave that to, you know what I'm saying? And that team was great. You know, I think, so like, I don't know, bro. Like, I feel like, you know, like you said, like Michael was saying retrospectively, it makes more sense to get Bronn that.

And also in that year, I thought, like, to me, I'm looking at regards to how loaded they are, that was Bronzed team. They said all day, he came in saying it was going to be De Wade's team. You know what I'm saying? And everybody was saying, bro, that was bronze fucking team from Jump. You could tell by game 10. You know what I mean? So, like, I don't know, man.

But all right. I had intended on not jumping into MVP discourse, but watching over the last two weeks the way people have talked about this and hearing, I mean, it does feel almost a little bit like gaslighting where you're like, I remember, like we were alive. We're old enough.

We remember what these conversations were when Braun was getting his fourth and all this other stuff. Like you can't tell me that it's like, oh, I'm ludicrous for thinking that there's a rationale for this decision outside of this year's efficiency ratings. How old are the people that are saying, telling you you're ludicrous? Those are people that were like alive, but there are people who are older than us on television who are saying that.

You know what I mean? And just as a result of, you know, being active on social media for this podcast, it's like I just see a lot of that content that's like, but look at how much better he is this year than he was the other years. It's like, okay, well, again, the first one, not that he didn't deserve it. Yeah. But the narrative at the time literally was we can't give it to Janus three years. That was the one knock on Janus. We can't give it to him three years in a row.

Had nothing to do with fucking basketball. You know what I'm saying? That's my whole thing. I'm fine with us not making the same mistakes in the future that we made in the past. But, you know, don't make you with a white man. This is the guy, huh?

Yeah, but right, but I'm just going to say, I'm just going to hold you out to this. When we come to these crossroads again. Racism, racist, right? I'm going to, I'm going to hold everybody to this when we come to these crossroads again with a guy who might not be, you know, and, you know, a favorite of the people who are championing yogic.

You know, damn well. what I mean by that. When Anthony Edwards in seven years is going for his third straight MVP for sure. Don't talk about, you know, what's happening in the past. Jason Taylor.

Okay, there we go. There we go. Good call. Good call. Tatum sort of got the people who are championing Yokic on his side, right? Because he's in Boston?

Yeah. No, Boston was putting shit in Russell in, in Russell's fucking bed. Like, after winning a chip for them, bro. They don't give a fuck. He's still a nigger

You know what I'm saying? I do I did also want to point out And I haven't seen a lot of discourse around this This will be and I do assume that this is happening by the way And just to be clear I'm not going to lose one fucking second A sleep about this

So please do not assume Yeah, yokech has been phenomenal And I do think he deserves MVP Yeah yeah yeah Totally Yeah right, yes And I right, yes Exactly

This will be The fifth straight Non-United States player to win the MVP. That had happened four times from 1955 through 2018, and this would be the fifth year in a row, which I also think is an interesting thing to keep an eye on. And it does actually kind of make me wonder how much some of the analytics community who hates AAU basketball and what it's teaching kids and all this other stuff, that there is this rift between some of the analytics community, in my opinion, from what I see on television and on Twitter, and actual

basketball culture that kids in America and especially black kids. But as we talked about, Tyler Hero, like, if you grow up in American basketball culture, it is kind of a monoculture. And I do feel like there's a disconnect between the people who decide what's great in basketball and the kids who grow up wanting to play in the NBA. And I think that's not healthy. We'll see how that shakes out, I guess, over the next 10 years. all right all right um i have on here as the next topic uh mike reads about the raptor metric to john as punishment i don't have anything that john is being punished for what is this like where are we going i said that i'm like bro what is the raptor fucking metric did they just make

that up yes so let me so here's what i'm going to do i want you to heckle me i want you to heckle me as much as you want to and feel free to literally knock the microphone out of my hands through Zoom. In 2019, 538, Nate Silver's website, and I believe this was one of Nate's personal pet projects because he is a big basketball fan, wanted to come up with a new metric that used the fact that they have player movement tracking technology, right? They have the ability to capture things statistically that they didn't have the ability to capture before when we were just going off of counting numbers. And so they came up with Raptor, which stands for robust algorithm using player tracking

and on-off ratings. Robust. Fuck robust. All right. If you're using robust to describe anything besides like a good-ass soup or something, I don't hear. Right, nigga, right. I want a robust suit.

I don't know you on some bullshit. Let's not talk about robust. bustness when we're talking about basketball. Keep that. You know what I mean? Starting there, I hate it. Go ahead. First, we wanted to create a publicly available statistic that takes advantage of modern NBA data, specifically player tracking and play-by-play data that isn't available in traditional box scores. Second, and relatedly, we wanted a statistic that better reflects how modern NBA teams actually evaluate players. That's interesting to me. And that is fair that whether people like analytics or not in hoops analysis and in uh in media mike i already stopped listening

dog i'm listening i accidentally like i'm but i'm back though i'm back all right okay i'm tapping this is interesting whether whether or not and this actually i think is a bigger debate in baseball than it is in basketball whether or not you fuck with analytics it is now how all teams are being run right right right like if you like if you look at baseball the astros and the dodgers they think fans who are like, whoa, this is what, you know, just tell me about the batting average. They think that shit's funny.

Like they think sports fans are cavemen, right? And like these analytics, and the thing is, whether you agree with them or not, the teams that have been the most advanced using analytics have been the most successful teams, especially in baseball where there's so much, to sit so many games.

Is that the same case in basketball? Now basketball, I think you certainly, would make the case that like I know the spurs during their run were the the team that was really the first to be all over this shit and I think Kirk Goldsbury has kind of made a career out of having been a part of that right but like and so now I don't know because basketball is different from baseball in that yeah the bucks hitting with Janice as their pick was he the 16th pick or whatever I don't give a fuck what your analytics are that was he yeah I think it was 14th I think Okay, okay. You know, that's what makes you into a winning NBA franchise. But there is no doubt. I mean, that is what's driving a lot of the role player, et cetera, et cetera. It is not a guy who knows basketball really well. All of these, every pro sports team in America at this point has hired people away from Wall Street who do quantum equations. That are saying, this is efficient, this player is it? You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think some franchise have actually read quite a bit about the Dodgers. Some franchises have done a good job of basically.

hiring translators between the math people and the athletes to say we're trying to, these guys are trying to make you better. They're trying to point out what the weaknesses in your game that you might not be aware of are. And, you know, and so guys like Mookie Betts, for example, has really embraced that. It's like, no, this has really shown me the things to improve that would never have occurred to me. And I know that there's guys, like, I've heard Braun talk about analytics. He's like, absolutely when I found out what my, you know, where my most efficient shots are and where my least efficient shots are, he's absolutely incorporated that, right? So there is a balance on that.

Yes, yes. But that is, that is easily like something. I mean, I think that's something that you all kind of can see how that can help you, right? Yeah. But this doesn't, like, this is something that Brian could say or any player. You know, me and you could go out and be like, I shoot better from this spot. This is the spot. Like, you know, we see players playing like that all the time.

Like, you know what we said about Shay, how good he is. It's like, Shay isn't like, I got it. He got his not the craziest bag. You know what I'm saying? But it's like he knows his spots and he knows how to get to them. And you can't keep away from getting to his spots. He makes the basket. He makes the game much easier on himself by going to those spots.

So I mean, but what in this sense, like Raptor, continue. But I don't think like this is something that you can really put into place as a, as like a basketball player to make yourself better. You know what I mean? No, this is purely reactive for sure because it's purely like a measure of a, okay. How many words. would you guess are in the methodology post that Nate Silver wrote about his metric?

2,000 of the motherfuckers. It's like a 3,500 dog. No way. No way. See, I mean, look, I love advanced stats, right? I think that oftentimes they show you shit that you might not have seen or they highlight shit that you saw and you're like, wow, okay, yeah, you connected some dots from me there, right?

Like, for instance, this whole conversation started because I think John posted like there was a under 25 best in the league Raptor list. Yeah, and Tatum was eighth on the list. Right, right. And Luca was number one. I'm like, okay, yeah, that checks out. Okay, I get that. And then I think, yeah, and then I think Jaron Jackson was second, right?

And I'm like, eh. Job was third, fourth is SGA, fifth is Darius. Six is Isaiah Joe above Tatum. Tyrese High LeBirden, great player, then Jason Tatum. Yeah. Lori marking it and then Trey Young. That's the. So you got to take the shit with a grain of salt.

You got to know when to kind of, you know, be, you know, be a bit skeptical about shit. because, you know, like you mentioned in the definition, they said that this factors and shit that doesn't show up in the box score. And Jaron Jackson, he's for sure the doesn't show up in the box score guy, right? So I can see how this algorithm has him play so high.

But he's not the second best under 25 guy in the league. No, no way in hell. And I love Triple J. He's phenomenal. Like pushing up. Second episode straight, I'm defending its honor after it has been besmirched by the All-Star Game and by Raptor metrics.

But yeah, man. So here's the, and so like I said, So the biggest thing is like spacing and everything else. You see what Jackson said, though? You see what Jackson said? Alice Caruso has the 12th best Raptor this season. Alice Caruso.

That is not a metric we need. That is not a metric we need. That's actually not true. It's the 12th best defensive Raptor, I think. I'm looking at the list right now. I'm looking at the list right now. Raptor fight. Raptor fight.

It's the best defensive Raptor. Number one, defense. He's the number one. Come on, man. He's telling you, this is not an analytic we need. And, like, defensive efficiency, things like that. I love that shit, bro. It makes a bunch of sense.

It's important to know that, dog. I don't need to know, I don't need anything that has Alex Caruso number one. Or that has Isaiah Joe above Jason Tatum. That's not a raptor. You know what I'm saying? That's not a analytic that's necessary for me. You know what I'm saying? The list I'm looking at has Alex Caruso number 35.

But to give you a sense of why the analytics people are making the arguments about Yokic that they are, Yokic's Raptor is a plus 14.3. No one else is in double-digit Raptor. It's Luca and then Juel Embed and then Dame and then Shea is number five. Bro. That makes sense. I'm just not. I'm not with it, dog.

Oh, no. Jackson, wait. Jackson's right. Fuck. There's two, even within Raptor, it's confusing. There's total Raptor and then there's Raptor wins above replacement. I know. I was looking at the fucking Rafter.

I was looking at the Raptor War. I was looking at the Raptor War, Jackson. I'm sorry. So wins above replacement. So wins above replacement mean that when he's not playing, like when he's playing, like the team is that much better. Like no team is better. No, what wins above replacement means and it actually comes from baseball. And I would add, by the way, like, I'm a sports writer.

I like math. I'm also like Tyler, like I'm very interested in advanced analytics. I just think that it's a tool, not a worldview. That's the way that I feel about analytics. But wins above replacement, I think is a really interesting concept. The idea is if you were to take an average baseball player and put him into a baseball team, then replace him with mooky bets. How many more games does mooky bets win you than that?

replacement player, that average player in Major League Baseball. So it's not like, it doesn't matter like how bad the team is when he's not playing. That has nothing to do with it. Right. It's just like, okay. Okay. So, and so, so one of the things that's interesting about it and as AI and quantum math become like more and more mainstream, we're going to start to get equations that maybe can accurate.

Like the challenges of these things are that of course no mathematic equation can actually tell you how many more wins, Muky bets or Shea are giving you that a replacement player. Would help you get in a regular average basketball player. And they're also reactive stats because if the entire NBA gets more efficient than the replacement player is better. Right. So like, you know what I mean?

So like the, so they're, they're not tied to a specific, um, objective starting point. But Jackson was right. I was looking at the Raptor War. The total Raptor, Yokic is still number one at 14.3, no one else is over 9.0. But Alex Caruso is number 12, tied with Jimmy Butler at plus 5.5. Here's an even better stat.

Guess who the player who's one spot below Alex Caruso is? Who? LeBron James. This is what I'm saying, dog. This is what I'm saying. So, like, we're using something that rates Caruso over LeBron James to, you know, like, I just don't think that's, bro, that's, we're going too far. a step too far.

You got to reel that motherfucker in, bro. It ain't it. You know what I mean? This is how I kind of view advanced stats like Raptor is. I feel like it's kind of like NBA GPS, right? Like there's times where your GPS holds you down

and you're like, oh, yeah, that's great. Yeah, got me to where I needed to be. There's other times, you know, you plug that shit in and it's like, bro, hell no. You are taking me 15 minutes out the way, sending me through a toll. Just show me how to get on the interstate and I'll take it from there.

You know what I'm saying? Right, right. Like I feel like that's kind of how you have to of, you know, approach advanced stats. And fucking Caruso number 12, that is your GPS telling you, you know, to go 15 minutes out the way and pay an $8.0.00 when you don't need to, bro. Hell now. Get on the freeway and get off two stops later to get back on the same street you are on.

That's the Caruso Raptor rating. But with that same stat, we saw Jason Tatum play solo too. So there's obviously a blind spot in that stat that needs to be fixed. You know what I'm saying? So we shouldn't be using that, especially not in the motherfucking MVP race. You know what I'm saying? So here's my world deal. There's the image.

Not now, at least they fix that blind spot. Right. I think it's the best meme graphic in sports discourse. You know the, I hate describing memes, but it's the guy on the bus who's looking out the window to the right and he's looking at the cliff and he's miserable. And that's advanced analytics. And then the guy looking out the window to the left at the beautiful view. And he's got that dog in him watcher. He got that dog.

He's just watching the game, dog. He's just watching basketball. That's all, bro. So here's my worldview. Nobody sits in the same spot on the bus, right? Every time that, like, you look at the side that has a better view. And sometimes the better view is the advanced analytics. Sometimes they're explaining to you.

I'm interested in the arguments about why Yokic is so much more efficient and valuable than other players. I'm interested in that. But sometimes it's telling you that you should buy a ticket when Alex Caruso is in town and not when LeBron James is in town. And you're looking out the wrong window, right? Like that's the time to go look at the and be the you got that dog in an NBA viewer. I just, I'm hardly ever. I think it's important.

Like, motherfucker, I'm a fucking nerd. I went to school for math. You know what I'm saying? Like, but I just, I think it's really hard for me to just to say that the better view is ever analytics than just watching the fucking basketball game. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just, I just, I don't know. Maybe I am a fucking, maybe I, maybe I am.

Twitter. Unknowingly. You know what I'm saying? But I think what I would just add is like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Like, like, and I've seen people make this argument with Kirk Goldsbury. Like, this is not homework. It is a, it's a TV show, right? Like, it's meant to be something that's entertaining.

Some people are entertained by, and I'm with Tyler on that. I'm interested in the statistical analysis of why you like, I'm interested in that. But it's not what I'm thinking about when I'm watching a basketball game. I've always, I've never been anti-analytics. That's the first fucking, no, advanced analytic I've ever since y'all like,

what the fuck? You know what I'm saying? When generally talking about, I think they're interesting. You know what I'm saying? I got to, shit I do this called stats only where we look at all analytics.

You know what I'm saying? And it's interesting, bro. I think this one in particular is a step too far. You know what I'm saying? I'm not a kid. I'm not a kid. I'm not a kid.

Nig. Bro, we have, like there are multiple, We pointed out multiple fucking issues and fucking the four seconds we looked at this motherfucker. He wrote 3,500 fucking words on this motherfucker for Brian to be worse than Caruso

and Jason Tater to be ninth and under 24 you. Get the fuck out of here, bro. Start from scratch. Burn this bitch down. I'm not fucking with it, dog. You know what I mean? Start over, G. All right.

Question. This is coming from the favorites, one of our volume teammates. Are gushers candy? I don't think fruit snacks are candy. I don't think so either. I think fruit snacks are their own category. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're unanimous. They are related but distinct subgroup of food. They're in the not true candy genus or whatever. If you were to describe how they were made, it would sound like you were talking about candy, but they're not candy. And I agree with John. They're somewhere between food and candy.

Exactly. They're not food, but they're more food than candy is. You know what I'm saying? Like candy's on a little further down the not food spectrum. You know what I mean? All right. Question. Is a hamburger a sandwich?

No. It's a hamburger. But technically, I think it's a similar like candy versus not candy debate, you know? No, I feel similarly about the hot dog and hamburger being a sandwich as I do like, I am to those arguments what John is to advance analytics. And it's like every time people are like, well, why isn't a hot dog a sandwich? It's like, because it's a fucking hot dog.

I don't know. I'm a rat versus squirrel debate. I'm not that. What? Advanced analytics. I don't want to say that, bro. It would advance analytics is just this one in particular, bro. Tyler, if I said, let's go get a sandwich.

You would respond to me. How about yes, I would like a sandwich in the form of a cheeseburger. I think that a burger is its own thing But I also think it's in the sandwich family Technically I think it's a sandwich Technically it's a sandwich I think but I'm never If you call a burger a sandwich

I'm going to call you a psycho You know what I'm saying If you're like let's go get a sandwich And then pull up to a burger spot Bitch you said sandwich Okay nigger Let's talk to know like bro

The purpose of communication is understanding nigger going to think of a hamburger if you say sandwich. You know what I mean? So like that's my purpose. That's where I met with it. Yes, it's a sandwich technically, but don't call it a sandwich unless you're crazy

or unless you want people to think you're crazy. I don't think, I'm trying to think, are there any other sandwiches that you would classify as a sandwich that have ground meat in them? I think the distinction is a patty. For example, a chicken burger versus a chicken sandwich. A chicken burger is ground chicken that's made into a patty form.

right but yeah but a chicken sandwich is a piece of chicken but like technically it's meat vegetables in between bread which I think is what qualifies it as a sandwich right but the argument I've made to people to say that is you could put my cat with vegetables on it and a piece of bread on either side and that would be bread meat lettuce nigger bread right like that would not be a put that motherfucker

and they call it a sandwich but I'm getting but I'm not but I'm not but No, but I'm just saying the way the meat is prepared and presented is part of the topic. I don't think that just because it's ground, it's not a sandwich anymore because would you say a meatball sub is not a sandwich. I would say it's a sub. I've never referred to a meatball sub as a meatball sandwich. What is a sub? It's a substanduism.

It's a substanduism. I'm sorry for bringing it up. I'm sorry for bringing it out. No, no, no. No, no. This is my favorite conversation. I was good at algebra. I was not good at geometry.

So Tyler wins because he said transitive property. I got nothing from the transit property. A equals B, B, C, A equals C. That's like the only shit I fucking remember from. From high school, how old year? Bet the NBA on TNT with a no sweat same game parlay from Fandul.

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RG. All right. Question. Do we fuck with the mukab. If you've been on social media for the last couple weeks, you've probably been blasted in the face on one platform or another by the sponsored ad for this new mega

mall slash hotel that they're building in Saudi Arabia. It's a big gold cube in the middle of the desert. It will be fully climate controlled inside and big enough to hold 20 Empire State buildings. My first question is, why 20?

Why not 25? Why not 23. Why not like five, nigga, you don't need anything bigger than that. Bro. I said, so first of it, if you haven't seen the video, I'm not going to encourage you to go look at Saudi Arabia's sponsored content on Twitter. But I'm assuming that most people have seen video about the mukab. Gentlemen, I sent you guys a video earlier today. What was your reaction to seeing? Bro, like I said, it looks like a clip that someone in a movie about the future would watch. Like it looks like a clip. that they would show stakeholders in a board meeting in Robocop. You know what I'm saying?

Like that's what that shit looked like. It looked like, you know, very futuristic and look like some shit I want no parts of because for one, like I've told you that, like, once I saw like those fucking 10 foot tall holograms just popping up out of all, I was like, nah, y'all can keep that shit, bro. My nerves are way too, my nerves are way too bad to get popped upon by a fucking 20-foot hologram when I'm just trying to, you know what I'm saying, eat a fucking corn dog. Hell no, I want no parts of that shit, dog. I, in general, do not like malls, okay?

Like, period. They're just too big. There's too much going on. As I was telling y'all, like, nigga, like, it's already hard for me to find auntie annes. You know what I'm saying? In that motherfucker. You're in a regular mall.

One that has the size of 20, 20, well, come on, bro. Like, Empire Statements, I don't need that shit. And then, like, dog, like, it's just, to me, it's future. futuristic in a way that is impossible to like it's impossible for what they create to live up to what they showed us at this in this day and time they had like cars hovering over like fake you know over like you know highways and shit drive that's what the fuck we don't where does that exist where we even

seen anything close to that nigga also they use the word leisure that makes me think is that a leisure they said leisure that makes me they're trying to get over on me that shit that somebody says when they want you to think they're smart if they're not smart. You know what I'm saying? Like, bro, I don't want with it. I think it's a scam. I don't know if they can actually create

what they have, you know, put in front of us. Right. So, yeah, I'm not, I'm not, we'll see, we'll see. I think a lot, if they can, a lot of people will like it. Yeah. And it'll be, you know, and, you know, and it'll be an amazing feat. I know personally, I will hate it.

There's not a place I ever want to visit. It's just too much going on. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be phenomenal. it's going to be a world wonder. It's going to be a smash of success, I think. I want no parts of that shit, though. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, do you really think they can create what we saw, though? Is there technology that can create that? Yes. In 2020, in 2003, Saudi oil money, absolutely, yes. They are like that, yes. The Saudis spend money in a way that people living with American public infrastructure cannot really wrap our heads around, I think. Cars, like, we've never seen a car.

move like a hovercraft. You know what I'm saying? We don't even have hoverboards. Like, you know what I mean? We've been begging for that for fucking 30 years. It's just like the Disneyland. It's just like a sky gondola. You probably just, they probably just didn't let us see the

Okay, the wires and all that shit. They cut that out of the graphic code. All right. I've been on Twitter for 14 years and I have learned very few useful things. But I have learned that when we've, played in that cold weather, it was cold. A fact that is being disputed on Twitter.com because I said Southern California has its coldest storm of the year coming over the next week

and put up a screenshot that showed it's going to be in the low 50s with rainstorms and Twitter made fun of me and called me a pussy basically. And I just want to say this, having experienced both things. 50 degrees in Southern California is colder than 10 degrees. in most places. And John, I, John, no, John, don't shake your head. I need you to back me up. 50 going down to 10.

I don't know. I don't know about that. It's colder than 30 degrees. Oh, yeah, I'll say that. I'll say that. I'll say that. Yeah, it does feel colder. But the thing is, though, niggas.

Like, I went to, I went to Chicago this weekend, right? It was 27 degrees. I stepped out. It was cold. And I was like, damn, it's cold as fuck. It was cold as fuck, right? But I didn't have the clothes to wear in that type of cold. We dress differently here.

You know what I'm saying? So if we were to dress in the way that people dress in Chicago, it wouldn't be cold to us. You know what I mean? But if people were in Chicago would have dressed the way we dress, it would be cold. For instance, it was 50 degrees, 40-something degrees this morning, 44 degrees this morning. I walked outside in the hoodie and shorts, empty the trash, came back in it, it was cold. You know what I mean? But it's cold to anybody that dresses that way in that type of weather.

So we don't dress the way they do. That's why it's cold to us. because I went to Chicago this weekend and it was cold, but it wasn't like unbearable. We was out walking outside and shit on some whatever shit. You feel me? And I am a admitted pussy now when it comes to cold weather. You know, that's what L.A. has done to me.

You know what I mean? It's just we just don't, you know what I'm saying? They be layered up. They still wearing long johns. I forgot what long johns. I don't know where you get them in Target now. I don't know what they're going to order them up on Amazon. They still, you know what I forgot how to dress for cold weather.

That's why cold weather here when it's 40 degrees. Be beat my house. You know what I mean? So that's my logical. That's why I think about it, but go ahead. We have had a little 65, 70 degree heat streak this last fucking week. And the whole fucking city has come alive. Like, yeah, I don't think y'all know how good y'all have it, bro.

Like, real shit. Like, cities that actually do experience winter, those cities die during that time. No, I know how good we have it. Yeah. I would pick this over that hellas. I'm just saying, like, because we have it good, we aren't prepared for what things are parked good. You know what I mean?

What do you mean the city dies? Like you're like, it's not really, people don't leave the house. Yeah, don't, people don't leave the fucking, the night scene is dead.

The bar is a fucking empty. Like, the streets fucking goes to sleep during the water, bro. Like nobody's at the park for six months. Hell, Louis. No, nigga,

you don't, you go from your car to, to work, back to your car to like, to home. Like, you might, you know,

you, Nobody's out walking and enjoying the weather. There's nothing to enjoy, bro. It's, it's hell. I'm the opposite to the hell, you know what I mean? But, like, it's hell figuratively. You feel me? It's cold hell.

It's cold hell. It's a cold hell. Bro, so like, no, shit ain't popping. No, gee. No, no. Shit ain't popping, bro. Like the streets, it's just how the leaves fall off the fucking trees when it's cold. That's what the city feel like.

City feel like, you know? And when it gets warm, it feels like spring again. They can start coming out. You start seeing humans. exist outside of buildings, dog. Bro, yeah. Shit, yeah, the city dies. You ain't never, you imagine that?

My getting to remember, people are not outside in parks? That, that happens? No, bro. Motherfuckers do not leave their house when it's cold, bro. That call be beating your ass, nigga. Sometimes your car don't even want to start because it's cold, not because the car is at ready. But I've heard of that, right?

But like, I assume it's like you said, it's like, but you're expecting that to some extent if you live in a place where your shit freezes, right? Like your pipes, that happens to the houses too, right? The pipes freeze or something? Sometimes, you know, like if it gets super, super, super, super cold. Yeah. Keep the little, yeah, keep the, yeah, keep the, yeah, keep the little, yeah, keep that's sometimes.

But yeah, all. All right. So I'm a pussy too, though. I'm a pussy. And I think we all are pussies, bro. Nobody likes cold. People that live in cold places always complaining about it. Nobody likes that shit.

Yeah, nobody likes that shit. Yeah, nobody like that shit. We all hate that shit. We shouldn't be living like that. Don't blame us. You live with like that. that dick. It ain't my fault.

You were the projects, then. I'm just playing. All right. Before we get out of here, we've got, I thought maybe we just talk about music for a couple of minutes.

John and I are in, we're in negotiations. We're not really in negotiations to start our new podcast, Jazz Boys. I'm excited. I told y'all, I told y'all before the pod

how I'm approaching life differently, right? You know what I'm saying? as far as like, you know, I'm not, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the part of my, my, my, my day of shit. And jazz has definitely helped me with that, nigga, like, bro. And, you know, I, you know, I play jazz in the morning's for somebody baby. You feel me? She'd be out here, you know, doing a little, you know, you know what I'm saying?

But yeah, nigga, that's, that's, that's my whole shit. That's my whole shit. What's your name. the guy who has the album that you sent me you're talking about the white man that might have been called the white man the white man Matthew Matthew Hallsaw

Halsoe Hallsall Hallsall trumpetist yeah yeah yeah bro specifically the album is the sending my love and I usually I'm I feel like I'm I feel like I was the podcast president Jazz Boy but I've been stuck on that album

since you said it is fucking great Adrian sent me that joint and then he had bought the album and he bought this other album I said you color yes it's spelled oh you because I guess he's from Canada anyway that makes me think second I shouldn't have maybe be promoting it's but no it's cold

but yeah uh he was playing that at the crib when I was at the crib with him this weekend and I was like I got a tap in this I'm like he got a whole bunch of fire shit dog you know what I mean so yeah bro we we move and different it'll be crazy if I was still dropping the music in between like

my you could see that I am older based on the music I would put in between the, you know what I'm saying? Right. If you just found us since the show's been on the volume, John used to put, John, what used to be the DJ in the SoundCloud days, Patreon days, and just put, he was spliced music in between the segments, which we can't do now because it's illegal. But, uh, I couldn't do then either.

Right. But, uh, but it was, it was more legal when less people were listening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, just, you know, because we weren't getting paid, you know what I mean? Right. Right. Right. And then before we get out of here, Tyler, you had a really interesting conversation going on the group chat. I know that is it that De LaSole is now going to be streaming for the first time? Is that what's occurring? Yeah, yeah, yeah. March 3rd, their whole catalog is dropping. It's something that we know for months. You know, it's like when we had that discussion, you know, about the iPods and shit like, like, you know, when I got the tragic news that day passed, I went to my iPod because you can't stream that shit anywhere. But I had their whole catalog on my iPods. So, so yeah, so people.

who aren't familiar with De La So, March 3rd, tap in one of the best deseges in rap, one of the most fun deseges in rap. If you're not familiar with De La Soe, they were very artistic with their shit, put a lot of humor in their shit, and they could flat out rap and make good music. It's a really fun ride, and I

implore everyone, you know, fans and people who want to get, you know, familiar rides that like to just tap in on March 3rd. I'm excited. I'm tapping in for sure, because I definitely miss the De La Sol train. De La Sol train. But, ah, the soul trained in the day-law, ah, okay. But I missed it in part because my high school,

my high school's biggest rival was De La Salle High School. And so I think somewhere subconsciously I heard DeLis-Lau, and I was like, fuck, Taylor's too much of a real one, dog. You know what I mean? It's too close to the ops. Too much of an idiot, yeah, too much of an idiot meathead. No, but I'll definitely be playing that for somebody, baby. You know, I told you, that's why we was talking about it

because I wanted to, I've been playing like some, like the old school shit. for Somi and whatnot. Did you, I hate this, I got, did you hear, I was playing PM Don, I did some research.

Did you hear about what happened with PM Don? Like when Caras won't beat their ass or? No, no. That happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah, I believe that, you know what I'm saying? But I think, the, like when they went real weird into like the Christian rock shit or? No,

the brown, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, that other dude, that other dude, I heard he was like, a,

There's something about him being like a... He was on his carb alone, shit. Ah, I did not know that. Yeah, so can't even run that no more? Like, damn, man, man. What, man? Shit. All right.

You know what I'm saying? Was that a... Was that a right? Was that a dumb episode? I think so. I feel like we asked a big conversation. I started out with me arguing about Tyler being I would have late 17 years ago.

I think it reached peak stupidity right there. We kind of kept it. We got to come in close. It dropped a little bit, but that was the dumbest thing, I think, that happened. Yeah.

Had a nice little raptor fight. Rector war. Right, right, right, right. All right. Well, I hope it was dumb enough to help get you through the rest of your week. I hope you have a very dumb weekend. And we'll see y'all on Monday.

Bye. Bye.