The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Jerry Jones, New Orleans Saints, and Jared Goff

Episode Date: July 30, 2019

Colin comments on Jerry Jones’s interview on Ezekiel Elliott’s hold out, New Orleans still not getting over the NFC Championship game, Jared Goff’s place on the NFL Network’s top 100 list, and parity in the NFL. Guests include Michael Vick, Greg Jennings, Mark Schlereth and Tom Pelissero.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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Oh, here we go on a Tuesday. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1 live in L.A. Joy Taylor is joining me. Somebody was putting a microphone on a couple of minutes ago and said, are you losing weight? And what I felt like saying is, no, I'm just starving for football. Oh. Yeah. It's great to have you. We've got nothing but football today. I absolutely love. it. Joy Taylor is joining me. Man, we're moving into August now.

I can feel it now. We've got a football game this weekend. I know. It's so exciting. It is so exciting. I love how it snuck up on us this year. It was like NBA Free Agency just let us right into it. It was no break in the action. So we got a story. Jerry Jones said something yesterday. Let's start here. Owner of the Dallas Cowboys, who through the years has been very good to his players. Let's not kid ourselves. This is not like an owner.

of a team that's cheap. That's not, this is not Charlie Finley of the old A's. You know, there's Donald Sterling. This is an owner that loves his players and takes care of his players. But you do run a business and football is a business. And Jerry Jones, and he's right on this, was talking about the Zeke holdout yesterday. And I hope Zeke is listening. Here he is.

You don't have to have a rushing champion to win a Super Bowl. But Emmett was the first one to do it. And that's one of the dilemmas at running back is that the league knows that you can win Super Bowls and not have the Emmett Smith back there or not have Zeke back there. Consequently, when we are looking and putting Zeke's contract in place, we've got to realize that the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl. Oh. Tone has changed. Zeke, by the way, is in Cabo. Jerry just said that and the Cowboys just signed a running back. Oh my, the story has changed, has it not?

Jerry Jones is not going to pay him what he wants two years out. And this is the mistake is that now, don't worry about losing the locker room. Jerry realizes this. He can now overpay DAC. If you're not paying your running back, what Zeke wants, overpay on DAC and you don't lose the locker room. Because DAC, who's never made any money,

is a year out and he's like, I just want to be at camp. So you always worry about in these situations, losing the locker room if a star isn't paid. Now, that would happen much more in basketball's culture than football's culture. But now what Jerry is telling you is we're moving off him if he doesn't come in and play. We just got to have to move off him. Zeeks and Cabo, Jerry just delivered that strike and they just signed a running back. And there is something about football. Jalen Smith has never made any real money in the NFL, linebacker,

DAC hasn't made any real money. If Jerry steps up and pays those guys in the near future, then the Zeke thing has no sting. There is a brotherhood in football that does not exist in basketball. Basketball, it's about getting yours. I mean, LeBron and D. Wade are best buddies. LeBron bailed on him, didn't give him a phone call. KD. bails on Steph.

Steph was in China. Could you have made the decision two days earlier? He bailed on him when he was in China. forced Steph to fly all the way to Brooklyn to say, I love you. The basketball brotherhood doesn't really exist. People say it does. Oh, I love Mello. Nobody wants to play with him.

I love Chris Paul. Nobody wants to play with him. But in the NFL, there is a brotherhood. And the reason there's a brotherhood is the fear of getting hurt. Tom Brady, you see these quarterbacks by their offensive linemen, lawnmowers, Rolexes, cars, vacations, golf carts. Why? Because if you don't have their back, you're on yours.

There is a brotherhood in football. Training camp is a grind. Training camp is grinders. Training camp in the heat in Louisiana. It's brutal. And so if you skip camp, players will say one thing, but they'll think another. Get your arse over here. And I think Jerry knows this.

I think Jerry understands the brotherhood of football. I think Jerry analytically knows where the game is going. You don't need to start running back. And I think Jerry knows in the end, if he doesn't sign Zeke, he can overpay on DAC and that will play very well within the walls of Cowboy Land. That'll play well. Pay for Jalen Smith. Pay for Dak who haven't made any real money.

Zeeks already made $20 million. He'd make $33 if he stayed there through the remainder of his contract, which he says he won't do. So let's not cry poverty here. Zeeks a first rounder. Zeeks made big money. Dax made nothing. Jalen Smith's a second rounder. He's made nothing.

And they've both been really good play. players, part of a winning culture. So Jerry Jones didn't just accidentally throw that out there. Jerry Jones picks and chooses, just like commissioners, he picks and chooses the times to allow interviews. Did you notice that interview? Under a shaded tree, nice lighting. Jerry was delivering a message from the Cowboys to Zeke.

Don't need you. The ultimate goal, Super Bowls. Star running backs, Panam a lot doesn't win Super Bowls. Listen, there's two stories, the one they feed you and the truth. That for Jerry Jones was his presidential address. Nice. Under a tree. The lighting's good.

He took it serious. He delivers it. I mean, you notice just it looked like a well done. That's like Warren Buffett does at Sun Valley every year. It's like, okay, this is going to play all year to the investors on Wall Street. Let's make it look real. This is not Jerry with 30 people in a microphone. Thought about it, delivered it, a sit down.

one-on-one. Good luck, Zeke. Good luck. Because Jerry, that's where he stands right now, and he wanted to make sure you see that as you work out in Cabo. I saw this story. Oh, boy. A Louisiana court orders testimony of Roger Goodell in the Rams Saints lawsuit. Oh, boy. New Orleans cannot get over that call against the Rams. Mark Ingram, who left the Saints and is now with the Ravens, said, quote, that is something no one on our team, no one in our organization will ever get over that call. Folks, the last several years, I've played a game before every season. Joy has seen this once. I've done it two or three years in a row, and I've hit it.

The NFL every year, and this is just not me making it up. This happens every year. A really good team gets inches from the Super Bowl, and the following year they see. stink. Last two years I've predicted right. Minnesota, 13 and 3 that didn't make the playoffs, and then Jacksonville, AFC to 5 and 11. Fans tend to think it's always linear. Like, you're kind of good, you're really good, and you're Tom Brady, and it doesn't work that way. It's cruel. Football's cruel. Free agency. Players get hurt in football. Like their careers end at 24 years old. They don't in basketball. They generally don't in baseball. Football, you're 24, you're great,

you got the world broken leg, it's over. Thanks for flying United. The Saints are that team this year. They're coming down, folks. They're crashing hard. I hate to tell you. They're crashing hard. There's a lot of reasons.

A, they're still fuming over a loss last year. B. Drew Brees at the end of last year looked old and tired. C. Their early schedule is absolutely the toughest in the NFL. Add Max Unger, valuable center retired. Mark Ingram, valuable running back left. and Michael Thomas is holding out. I'm sorry, ask Jacksonville in Minnesota.

You can see this from a mile away. That is why Drew Breeze. Louisiana and New Orleans specifically is a party town. And somebody stole their party and they're pissed and they haven't forgotten it. And they're holding the grudge. Folks, you can't see straight when you're in the fog of a grudge. You can't see straight.

You got to get over the divorce. You got to get over the loss. Football's cruel. it's not waiting for you to get over it. It moves on fast. New Orleans is coming down. And Drew Breeze has been around the block. He sensed this immediately.

And Drew Breeze, unlike a lot of the guys in this team, he's old. He's got like an hour left in the league. Remember when they lost that game. He went to the microphone and remember what Drew Breeze said. This shows you he understood the city he lives in and the impact of this loss. There's nothing we can do about it. so it's unfortunate. Last year after the loss,

and it really brought us together as a team and strengthened us. And I hope that this will too. I plan on being here next year and making another run at it. Get over it, turn the page, let's go. I've been in this league, 15 years, get over it. New Orleans can't get over it. They're holding a grudge. They want Roger Goodell to answer it.

By the way, New Orleans, people hate to look at themselves in the mirror. After that no-call, you kicked a field goal, took the lead. At home, went to overtime, lost the game. The call did not lose you the game. It was a symptom. It wasn't the cause. You lost the game. You couldn't get first downs.

You couldn't make a stop. At home, Rams couldn't hear. They beat you in overtime. You're Jacksonville, you're Minnesota, your quarterback's old, your schedule's brutal, you're still holding a grudge, you can't see straight, you lost Max Unger, Mark Ingram's gone, Michael Thomas holding out, won't go to a full camp. here it comes. Get ready for it.

Don't say I didn't warn you. Saints, you're the Vikings and the Jags. Put it down. Go to Vegas. Bet the under. All right. You know how yesterday I got so worked up on the Deshawn Watson-Baker-Mayfield thing?

You did, yes. I had three people yesterday come up to me. This doesn't happen very often. When I left work, a three-people grocery store, like, man, you were worked up about that. That was interesting. So we've got another one today, but I'm not upset about it. The NFL.com is released against top 100 players.

And players like somebody a lot more than you do. And it's a quarterback. And it's not Baker. It's somebody Baker's age. And they like them a lot more than you do. That's coming up. Plus Michael Vic, Greg Jennings, Mark Schlerath. We are loaded on a Tuesday.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok Podcasts. network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Cliverts show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier.

We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Great to have you in. Michael Vicks around the corner. Michael and I were at the Fox thing up on the mountain last night. We had this big Fox event sitting there eating fish, learning about Fox, Lachlan Murdoch and everything. It was big deal Joe Buck and everything.

And I saw Joe Torrey was up. there and Tom iso was up there and jimmyr and jimmyr and troykman and urban mire and it was amazing it's amazing i'm sitting there eating fish with amazing people last night so the NFL uh players vote on this nfl dot com list every year top hundred players and you know there's always yesterday the dashan watson below baker mayfield i know you think i'm picking on baker but i just i think we've gotten to a point where dischaun watson people you got to wake up you players got to wake up if you think this morning you'd take baker over to sean as an NFL player you know know what, watch more film. You just don't know what you're watching. DeShon's the most

underrated player officially in the league right now. I'm not saying he's Brady or Breeze or Russell or Locke, but Mahomes, he's really, really good behind a bad O line for three years in a row or two years in a row. So the list came out. They only have 20 spots left. So they're down to 100 through 21. And the interesting one now is Jared Goff is 32. So he is going to be the eighth best quarterback in the league, according to the players. And that is way higher than fans put him. So Goff at this point,

Deshawn Watson is far lower than he should be according to the players. And Jared Goff is better than the fans and the media think. So Jared Goff, according to this list, is higher than Big Ben, Wence, Baker, Dax,

Deshawn Watson, and Matt Ryan. And I don't necessarily think they're wrong. When he came into the league. I always do what I call a comp. I have a guy that I think you'll be at your best, a guy if you underachieve, and where are you in the middle? I use Tom Brady and Matt Ryan. I said if golf is at his best, he'll look a lot like Tom Brady, you know, notwithstanding the eight Super Bowls. And I said if he's a little under what I think he can be, he'll be Matt Ryan, solid but no Super Bowls. I think he's better than Matt Ryan and not quite as talented

as Tom Brady. So I think he's going to end up with a Super Bowl or two and be very, very effective. tall, lean, good arm, coachable, but does need a good offensive line like Tom or Matt to be more successful. He needs protection. He's not overly athletic out of the pocket. So he's got the five things I care about. Tall, coachable, good arm, accurate, and a low key personality. You know, he's not out there making, you know, and you know what out of himself on social media. But what would Jared Goff, the reason players get him and the reason fans don't and media, often don't. Because this happens all the time in the NFL.

If you are surrounded somebody by somebody that's flashier than you, Russell Wilson comes in the league. Pete Carroll's defense, Pete Carroll's brand, Pete Carroll USC. People overlook Russell Wilson, very quiet, shorter than average quarterback. Jared Goff plays in Los Angeles with Sean

McVeigh. Good looking. High energy. The next Belichick. And people don't pay attention to Jared Goff, but players do. And never forget, goff is the same age as Baker Mayfield. Goff came into the league a very young number one pick. Baker came into the league, an average or older number one pick. They're both 24 entering this season. So goff is more mature than Baker at this point. Shouldn't be. They're the same age. Baker spent all those years in college. Goff came out early. They're both 24. But here's the thing where I think players

bought in the golf. The biggest NFL game last year, the most exciting game was Kansas City Mahomes against Goff and the Rams in Los Angeles. It was an unbelievable, spectacular showcase of offensive talent. And Goff won. And Goff had four T-Ds and no picks. And Mahomes was wild at times and had three picks and was great but played a little out of control. That was the game, I believe, that players, and it got a huge rating.

That was the moment in the league that I think players look. looked at Goff and went, a guy can sling it. There were a couple of throws in that game. There was a throw to the back of the end zone where everybody involved was, oh, oh, Jared Goff's great. Oh, Jared Goff can make all the throws that Patrick Mahomes can make. He just looks where he throws it. So this NFL.com, players voted on this.

Goff's the eighth best quarterback in the league. His dad, by the way, was a major league baseball player. He's got good lineage. This is a kid that's athletic. Right? Dad played in the Biggs. This, to me, is the surprise of the list. He's going to finish ahead of Ben and Wentz and Baker and Deshaun and Matt Ryan. And I don't think it's wrong.

I think he's that kind of talent. Joy with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. So we're all discussing Zeke this morning. And according to a friend of the show, Jane Slater, she tweeted I can confirm today's reports that Zeke is heading to Cabo to train.

while the Cowboys and his team continue to work on his contract. For a source close to the situation, I am told his agent owns a place there, and he did the same during his suspension. It doesn't appear like the Cowboys are going to let Zeke's hold out force their hand, though, because Executive Vice President Stephen Jones said yesterday, my goal is at the end of the day we figure out a contract for Dak, for Amari for Zeke, that's fair, but they've got to understand there's a real salary cap out there. Any money we save is not going in Jerry's pocket.

it's going to another football player, it's hard cap, it's a reality. That is the NFL. They have a hard cap. Yes, it's very, very, very different than the NBA's salary cap, which there's exceptions. There's exceptions and some flexibility there. It doesn't really exist in the NFL. That said, it still feels like Zeeke is being extra in this space. I'm all for players getting paid, I think probably more than most. This doesn't seem like this is a smart idea.

With Levion, it felt warranted. It felt like this is something that Levion deserves. He's willing to sit out and lose this money. It's time for a new contract and he needs to get paid. I wasn't even thinking about Zeke's contract, honestly, as something that was going to come up this year. Like, we knew he was going to get paid, but it wasn't even something I was seriously considering as an issue for the Cowboys. It was Dak and then Amari and then Zeke. So to your point, I don't think Dallas thought about it either.

It's apparent. We all have bosses, right? Everybody's got bosses. You know, I mean, even the richest of the rich, the government's the boss. They can shut down the internet, right? Like, surprising your boss is rarely unless it's a birthday cake, not a great idea. Like, if your boss, you're a year out from a contract and you say, I think I deserve it, you're not shocking him because he's probably thought about it.

But if you're two years out from a contract and you drop a bomb publicly on your boss, that's not a good surprise to your boss. In a league where this is not a free agent league. Obviously, that's basically what Anthony Davis did, but those conversations are being had but well before those contracts are up. And now with the trades that are made, it's a completely different situation.

This is different. This is not something anyone really saw coming. I don't know how this is really going to work out for Zieg. And the whole Cabo thing is not the best. The optics aren't great. Not the best optics. No, especially when you were there last time, which I didn't have a problem with him being in Cabo during his suspension because it was kind of like get away. People will say this.

Well, he's working out down there. It's sort of like married guy who goes to a strip club and says, I was just looking. You probably shouldn't be there. You're married. It's just not the best optics. You're holding out for a contract two years out. And Cabo. And everyone else is in training camp.

It's not exactly the same kind of workouts. In 109 degrees in Oxnard. Right. And you're on a surfboard. But even if you are working out, I don't like the optics of it. I'm usually on the other side of this, but I'm with you on that. So the Ravens aren't going to shy away from letting Lamar Jackson use his legs this season. And NFL Network's Brian Billick asked John Harbaugh what the pitch count on Jackson's running the season will be. You see a guy like Cam Newton, a max of 139 times in a given year?

Is there an over under on that someplace? I'd bet the over on that one. I bet the over for sure on that one. No hesitation either. It's going to be interesting. I don't think we know the exact numbers or the math. What's the next day are going to be? Well, we're about to find out.

We're about to find out what the limits are on that. And I think it's going to open up opportunities for quarterbacks, you know, all across and in our league. And it's going to make it tough on defenses. So that's the idea. They're so, it's funny about this, Joy, they're so contrarian to the current league. Like they're just saying, listen, we're going to be almost a college running team. I think you can win a lot of games this way. I don't know if I think it's going to last eight years.

years. Can you win a lot of games this way? I mean, how hard is that scouting report? Kaepernick did a little bit of this early and it caught the league by surprise, the wildcat. I think you can win games this way. Right, but those things are trends and they die out very quickly because of exactly that. You can scout that and game plan for it, especially if you know that he was a 58% passer last year. Like, that seems very easy to game plan for. I don't think this is sustainable at all. nor do I think it's the proper way to develop him. Obviously, he's a running quarterback, so you want to take advantage of that. But Cam Newton is also a freak athlete.

And he got dinged up. Yes, and that was a big part of the conversation of how his career is going to be sustainable, because running is a big part of his game, but he was getting mauled. Omar Jackson's not built like Cam Newton. No, no. He's felt like Teddy Bridgewater. I don't know how this is sustainable or even smart. I do think that obviously his legs have to be a part of his game because you can't change a player's game that dramatically. Yeah.

We have a perfect guess for this. I'll ask it. It's a fascinating. It's almost kind of an operational decision. Yeah. And it's different. And I think it, listen, if I played pass happy Kansas City and pass happy Indianapolis and then Baltimore came to town and I had to literally tell my defense, okay, take the last two weeks. It won't look anything like that.

There is something to what they're doing. I just don't know how long a spindly quarterback can run. I don't know how it's sustainable. Finally, the Colts begin their second week of training camp today, but they'll be doing so without Andrew Luck, who is not practicing due to his calf injury. Coach Frank Reich told reporters, Luck will not participate in the next two practices.

He said he was not ready to take the next step, and Luck's calf injury now has been three months long. Wouldn't play him a snap. And I don't like to over-practice stars. This is worry you at all. I don't think, Joy, he's ever been healthy. I don't think he'll ever be the same physical being he was in the first three years. Now, that doesn't mean he could win a Super Bowl.

I think he was in a car wreck for about three straight years with that offensive line. I don't think he'll – and I've said this. This is why if you told me today Lucker Mahomes going forward, and everybody knows how much I love Andrew Luck, I'd take Mahomes. I just think there are times – and this has probably happened to people listening to our show. You go through some physical duress in your life, you're never quite the same. Whether you're 30 or 40, I don't think luck will ever be 100% physically perfect.

I think he's now playing at 90 to 85% physically, and I wouldn't play him a snap for the rest of his career in the preseason. Not a snap. You don't think that that is going to affect his rhythm at all going into the regular season? I don't think that he needs to be out there practicing if he's injured to this level. Listen, my theory, I'll take the week one loss. My theory on the preseason. get rid of it.

These are commodities. What are we doing with four preseason games? I think four preseason games is a lot, but I don't know that you can get rid of preseason. It's very crucial to building your franchise. Young players developing. No, it's something. Setting your roster. I get it.

The idea of putting out my star quarterback to get hit by a guy from Washington State who won't make the league and ends his career, I'm like not interested at all. I don't know. It's concerning to me. Yeah. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Heard Lye News. Four-time Pro Bowl are 13 years. Michael Vic joining us on the set today. Four Pro Bowls. I thought you only want a couple. Four. You're doubly as good as I perceived. Should have been five.

Should have been five. All right, let's go to Lamar Jackson. So I'm going to throw a theory at you. That, and I always said, Lamar Jackson to me is Mitch Trubisky. got you let them run for three years as they develop a confidence in throwing as you develop Russell Wilson did this a little for about two years I'm okay for another year letting Lamar be a 6040 pass run guy I'm okay for one more year right let's go back to you now you were a more honed thrower of the football than Lamar or Trebisky yeah I find them very similar limited

throwers super athletic. Are you concerned at all? You're also a little shorter and thicker than Lamar. He's got a little Bridgewater. Yeah, you know what? I agree with what you said. Year two, just let Lamar be Lamar. You know, obviously for the Baltimore Ravens, you know, it's, it's must win situations out there.

You know, I think they, you know, they've been putting in position where, you know, they have to win and they have to win now. So let Lamar be Lamar. Greg Roman is going to do a great job of creating. He did last year. Yeah, he's going to do a great job of creating run plays for Lamar. And then taking into account the fact that, you know, sometimes he's going to improv, pull the ball down, and run too. That's why I think, you know, when Harba is saying, you know,

betta over, he knows it's going to be design runs. It's going to be some runs. It's going to come off improvisation where he just pull the ball down and run. Now he don't have a body, you know, like Cam Newton, and like Joey said earlier, he don't have that type of status, so he has to be careful other than that. You know, this project won't last long. So, you know, within him being a running quarterback this year,

he has to be a or develop. He has to develop as a passer. Hands down, without a doubt. Yeah, they do have two rookie tight ends last year. They drafted a wide receiver. I do like that offensively, they're kind of creating this young unit he can grow with. I don't ever think he's going to be Drew Breeze. I don't think he's that kind of play.

And I'm kind of like, let guys run for two years until the lights come on. Russell Wilson admits year three, lights come on. You're like, okay, the game's slowing down. Jared Goff, by the way. And the last year, you're like, okay, lights are coming on for Jared Goff. Do what you got to do to get by. Do what you got to do to get by. And it's time for, you know, the opportunities to develop is going to always be there.

You know, and you can develop from week one to week three, from week three to week six. And you've started to add more and give them a little more and see what he can handle. Training camp preseason is going to be very critical for Lamar as far as, you know, kind of putting it all together or what this offense is going to look like and what he's going to be able to do. By the way, it's his team now.

It's his team. Okay, so this camp, it's his team. He's got a receiver, got some tight ends, got a running back behind him. You know, it's time for him to, you know, take the next step. Okay. Joy and I don't love holding out two years before your contract. I don't love the optics of you going to Cabo where your brothers are in 1,000 oaks and 120 degrees.

Yeah, man. It's a little, you know, it's kind of eerie. You know, I think everything should have been kept low-key. He should be somewhere working out, training, you know, talking to, you know, his teammates, seeing what's going on, staying up on what's going into the offense, where the team is as far as progression. And, listen, trying to find a compromise.

think in this situation. They have three great stars on this team that can make this team a much better team with, with Dak and Amari. And it's just, you know, the luck of the draw that, you know, they have a guy like Dak who was drafted in the fourth round, was supposed to be, you know, the heir apparent to Tony Romo, but not this soon. Right. So it happened a little early than what everybody expected. So now they're in a dilemma. And I think they all have to come together, Zeeke, Dak, Amari, say, listen, we're going to find a way to. Find a way. to make sure that we all on the field together and we give this team the best chance of winning.

And understanding that it is a financial aspect to this and the salary cap that we have to, you know, buy-bye. You know, it's interesting. Zeke and you have, I think, some similarities. You became iconic early. I mean, when the guys have one name, you know, Vic, LeBron, Zeke, KD, when you can go by initials. So Zeke came into the league,

and I think he's lacked a certain maturity. you have admitted when you came into the league you didn't study as hard if you went and did it again yeah I do it different you're totally different so you have much more self-awareness now than you did it 22 there are times with Zeke where I look at him and I think

I wish he was 34 now right he doesn't have the self-awareness he doesn't get that Cabo looks terrible yeah he doesn't you know have the maturity of a guy like Dak Prescott who seems very mature you know and obviously he plays a quarterback position and there's a different type of demand.

And, you know, Zika is a running back and a guy who can just line up and show up and be really, really good at what he do. Sometimes we don't take into account that, you know, at every position, you know, we're being watched and scrutinized. And I think, you know, Zika's kind of missing that, you know, and hasn't had that over the last, you know, a couple of years as far as guidance. And I think he'll mature. I think this and everything he's going through right now, a minute.

make him a much better person and make him a much better player. When did you mature? What was the epiphany? What was the moment where you're like, I got to button this stuff up? In 2005, when I flicked off the crowd, after a game when we played the New Orleans Saints. And, you know, I had a decent game. And, you know, I didn't feel like I made a lot of mistakes. And, you know, we lost the game.

And, you know, you want to point the finger, but you can't. And, you know, with some fans just taunting me. And I, you know, I flicked them off. And I was like, you know, I had a conversation with my mom and just knew it was time for a change. It was time to change my surroundings and grew up a little bit. And that had to happen like sooner than later. This may be the wake-up call for Zique. Maybe this is.

I think so. We got to get him out of cowboy, got to get them around the guys, got to get him a deal in place. And I would love to see this guy on the field this year because he's definitely somebody that has made the league continue to turn over the years. Okay. Stick around. We got some OBJ stuff. You have thoughts on. Kyler Murray at Arizona.

I cannot wait to watch. I have no idea. I'm so excited about that kid. I have no idea what I'm getting. Michael Vick, don't go anywhere. It's The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapidly. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still

chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about All healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck. My mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Georgia accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man.

They holding Kay Michelle back from Friday. like Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's gonna be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewise franchise,

the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it, I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Greg Jennings later next hour.

Michael Vick is joining us 13 NFL season six with Atlanta, five with Philadelphia four-time Pro Bowl. Most career rushing yards by a quarterback in NFL history, number one draft pick overall. When you, I look at Odell Beckham, I've said before, I think he's the first NBA player in the NFL. And Doug Gottlieb came on and said, actually, Michael Vick was. And he said, Michael Vick was the first NBA player. Like, it was like, we didn't even care about the Falcons.

We just cared about Michael Vick. Brand-wise. Brand-wise, do you see a little bit of yourself and Odell Beckham? Well, I see Odell just, you know, he's kind of like a walking brand. And he created that image for himself and, you know, started in New York. Right. where, you know, footballists like the Mecca, you know, a lot of media attention. And I think, you know, Odell and, you know, just this whole persona just kind of gravitated to it.

And it was, it was nothing wrong with it. You know, it's good to see a guy like Odell take advantage of everything that has come at him. Right. I think in a humble way, more importantly, you know, being on the field and representing yourself and being the best player that he can be as, you know, been the real, reason why, you know, he gets all his, all attention. So he takes care of business on the field and then off the field, he kind of, you know, just took advantage of everything that life has brung his way. So I don't think there's anything wrong with it. You know, I love the fact that, you know, he's been productive. And as long as the production don't stop, O'Dell can do pretty much whatever

you want. I remember there was a guy in New York years ago, went to the University of Miami, Jeremy and I always felt shocking was building a brand, but his game wasn't living up to his brand. I thought Mark Sanchez, who I like personally. Mark was into his brand and his on-field play wasn't up to his brand. O'Dell's production is equal to his brand. And I also, part of me, Mike,

I kind of look at it at wide receivers. Like, I get it, man. It's a perimeter position. I don't think I love my quarterback being this brand-centric. Our conversation will be different if this is the quarterback. That's how I feel. You know, being a receiver and we've seen guys do it.

It's almost like Dion Sanders and his Brandon the way he was. It's like, you know, he was his own walking entity. And that's, but I didn't build around Dion. I was okay, Dion, being prime time. Absolutely, yes. There's something about being quarterback. I kind of need you because the quarterback gets all the love anyway. I kind of want you to disperse it. Yeah. Give love as a quarterback. Let your offensive linemen, your receivers, you're tied in your back. You're getting all the attention anyway. I remember my second year, Dan Reeves, you know, before the game started, I was, you know, jumping around with the guys and super hyper and, you know, just ready for the game and,

you know, trying to look like everyone else and trying to just be as excited as, you know, all my teammates and he pulled me to the side and said, oh, hold on, hold on, you're the quarterback. You got to be different. You know, you got to be even killed. You can't be a big rah-rah guy. And I learned right then and there early that, you know, my mindset, you know, the persona that I gave off had to be different. It had to be, you know, a different tone, laid back, low-key. And I took that and I kind of ran with it.

And it felt better. You know, it felt better. And then I allowed the guys around me to be more flashy and flamboy. That's right. And more emotional. Yeah, more emotional. I kind of fade off them in that regard and kind of live vicariously through them. Mike, Vic, joining us.

You know, I looked at the players vote on the top 100 players every year, NFL.com. Yeah. And it's interesting. Yesterday I said Deshawn Watson is now the most undervalued player in the NFL. They have him under Baker. I think Baker's good. I think DeJon can be spectacular.

The other thing that comes out today, they're almost done with it. They have only 20 spots left. Jared Goff is going to be the eighth best quarterback in the league. Now, the fans don't want to hear that and the media may not agree with it. But could I make

the argument when he went toe to toe with Mahomes last year in that crazy game in L.A. That players around the league who vote on this were like, okay, okay, he's going toe to toe with Mahomes. I think that game changed among players, his rep. Yeah, and it was a nationally televised game. He played one of his best games when his best was required.

And I honestly think, look, I take nothing away from the New England Patriots. I think, you know, I always say this time Brady is the greatest. Bill Belichick is the greatest. but the Rams could have won that Super Bowl last year. I think it was a pass and a friend's call that was a little controversy that didn't get called at the end on Brandon Cooks. And, you know, I think his own got grabbed.

That was a bad call, by the way. And, you know, he catched that pass. And, you know, it's a different dynamic to that game. But up into that point, Jared Gough, and put that team in the position to be where they were, you know, in the Super Bowl. He played so sound. He played smart.

Yes, he had his hiccups, ups and downs. but throughout at all he stood in the face of adversity you know he stood there in the fire you know and did everything he needed to do as a quarterback here he is right here running the football and running one there and he's not even the most athletic guy so I think he's done enough to show the league that he's one of the you know rising stars young gunners of the national football league and it's exciting to see because we get to see him more and more as time progressed

by the way Patrick Mahomes is my favorite to win the MVP I'm not really an award guy but I do think he's the next great superstar quarterback in our league. I think he's coachable. I think he's got talent. And I also think he has Andy Reid. I was about to say, and he got Andy Reid. Okay, so I want you to take, and I love these stories. So Andy really rejuvenated your career.

Yeah. Andy took a chance on you. You had some stuff in the PR department that wasn't great. Your football was broken a little. And Andy said, I'm going to solve you. So take the first couple of years with Andy. and what is Patrick Mahomes hearing now from Andy? Because, by the way, Mahomes like you, hyper athletic, can make mistakes,

but can also do stuff off script that I can't coach. Yeah, he's a, you know, once-in-a-generation type of talent because of his arm strength. And now he does a lot of things where it's intangibles are through the roof. But when this kid throws the football and when you can attack every area of the field that Mahomes can attack, it keeps a guy like Andy up all night like thinking about how can I attack the defense what explosive play can I put in

to manipulate the defense and to catch him off guard and open up a bunch of other things and I know that because Andy used to text me at 11, 30, 12 o'clock at night you know, take a look at this play and it was all about taking advantage of what I could do arm strengthwise

and stretching the defense now the one caveat is going to be you know, McHombs and he'll see different defenses this year. It might not be as vanilla. I think teams are going to try to take away the things that he really do well. But when you got Andy, a guru,

who loves the offensive side of the ball, and that's what he do? He's a play designer. I mean, it's just going to continue to keep coming. And what we've seen from Patrick last year, that'll get magnified. You know, even with Mike Kafka,

the offensive coordinator in the room, he's very intellectual at the quarterback. He was this. He was a Northwestern quarterback. Northwestern guy and he was one of the guys that set in our QB room and help design plays, help, you know, Doug Peterson design plays and put it all together when we was all together. So

just, the ceiling is very high for Patrick. Does Andy ever bark and when he does bark? Is it a loving bark? It's a loving bark. He gives, I mean, the best you know, advice, man,

without, you know, really coming down hard on you. Doesn't make you feel bad about yourself. Yeah, he don't make you feel. feel bad about it. He makes you want to go out and do it for him. And you know he's telling you the right thing and he has a way of being really sarcastic that can get under your

skin and bring the best out of you. And every coach doesn't have that intangible. Andy got it. Yeah. Mike Fick joining us. By the way, I don't like the Saints this year at all. Oh, man. You know what? They're still pouting. They're still pouting about their loss to the Rams. I would still be pouting to

honestly. I mean, listen, you can't take calls back. Things Things happen in the National Football League. That won't be the first call or the last that... Max Unger's gone. Ingram's gone. Michael Thomas holding out. I heard some Ingram's comments.

Michael Thomas holding out. They still got Drew. Yeah. Still got Sean Payton. But some things are just hard to get over, and we'll see if that happens for the St. What was the hardest loss in your career to get over? Probably the NFC championship game in 2004.

Green Bay. Philadelphia Eagles. Oh, no, Philadelphia. Yeah, because it was so easy to get there. and things happened very early in my career, and we were super confident that we would get back, and we never made it back. Yeah.

By the way, I don't have time for Kyler Murray, which bums me out because I wanted to ask you about it. Kyle is going to be amazing in this league. We're going to follow them. We're going to track them. We got them on the track it every week. Yes, be careful. I love his statue.

I remember me of Russell Wilson a little bit. Super confident in his abilities, but just take it easy, bro. Just learn the game. have fun playing. You got Larry Fisher, Gerald. You got Cliff Kingsbury. You know, coach is going to help him get through.

So, year one should be good. Can't wait for it. All right. Ran out of time. Mike Vic, great seeing you. Greg Jennings next hour. Michael, thanks again. Back in L.A.

It's The Herd. One more Herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Ah, here we go, hour two. live in Los Angeles, this is The Herd, wherever you may be in, however, you may be listening. This show's on IHeart Radio. It's on Fox Sports Radio, and it's right here in FS1.

I'm new haircut boy today. Joy, meanwhile, looks so August. Do I? You look like you're going out this afternoon to have a business lunch in Bel Air with Earl. You look very professional, yet summery. Thank you. Yeah. I look like I just got a new haircut. I'm a little boy.

You did get a new haircut. I always tell them, you can always cut more gray off. Just get scissors. I'm always willing to let you cut all my gray hair off. It's great to have you enjoy. Great to have everybody in today. This is a, I love this part of the year. You know, in our business, there's like two lulls.

Right after the Super Bowl for about a month. XFL's coming, which I think is going to hit. I think spring football in America is going to hit. Legalize gambling. I think it's going to work. ESPN, Fox. and WWE are in kind of unison on this league, and I think spring football is going to work.

And the other time there's a lull is after NBA Free Agency, which is a crazy circus, which we love. And there's about four weeks of just kind of nothing burger. We're in the middle of that, but I love this time of the year. And it's conjecture and it's guessing and its predictions, and I think it's so much fun. And then baseball postseason here in September, October, college football.

One of the things I love about pro football over college football is the unpredictability of it. Now, the AFC is the conference of Tom Brady. The NFC is the conference of parity, and it's just the way it is. And I'll give you some numbers to back it up. First of all, no NFC team, not a single NFC team, even well-run teams, have made the playoffs three straight years. Not a single team. Okay.

Compare that to the AFC with Brady. The NFC North, three different winners, last three years, Bears, Vikings, Packers. NFC East. since 2004, no back-to-back champions. In 15 years. It's crazy, right? NFC South, four years, three different winners. The NFC is up for grabs.

And even though you know that as a consumer, you are a fan and you know that, you fight it every year. Colin, how can you say Minnesota's not going to be great again? Because I think Kirk Cousins is overpaid. And I think they got some breaks in the year they went 13 and 3. So here's the last three. years what the NFC has looked like. In 2016, the

playoff teams were the Cowboys, the Falcons, the Seahawks, the Packers, the Giants, and the Lions. And then in 2017, it went to the Eagles, the Vikings, the Rams, the Saints, the Panthers, and Atlanta again. But then last year, Atlanta

was out. And it was the Saints, the Rams, the Bears, the Cowboys, the Seahawks, and the Eagles. No Packers, no Falcons. So let's go to last year, the playoff teams. We know that in the NFC in the last decade, only one team has won it more than once, Seattle.

And that window closed quickly. And a lot of it is because the NFC is so good. The NFC right now may not win the Super Bowl over New England, but it's a much better conference. It's got very few bad teams in the NFC. The bottom is really good. It's like the NBA Western Conference. The bottom of it is still pretty darn good.

The bottom of the NBA Eastern Conference is Drek. So here are the teams last year, and I'll tell you right now, four of the six, I don't think will make it. I don't think the Saints or the Bears or the Cowboys or the Seahawks will be playoff teams. I think the Rams and the Eagles will. And let me explain all of them.

Let's start with the Saints. Drew Breeze and the last year looked tired. He's getting older. They lost their very good center, Max Unger, Mark Ingram, their power runner, Michael Thomas holding out. Their early schedule is brutal. I think Carolina has a bounce back year.

I think Atlanta. Remember, I had Atlanta in the Super Bowl last year, and they fell apart physically. Their secondary fell apart. I think Atlanta has a bounce back year. I don't think the Saints make the playoffs. I don't think the Bears make the playoffs, although I think they're really good.

But I think Minnesota, Kirk Cousins, year two, will rebound. I think Aaron Rogers is back and he'll have his best young defense. He's probably had in seven years. I think that division's really close. I don't think the Bears will be out of the playoffs until about week 16. I think it will be a slow, tough, competitive, fun to watch, a lot of hope, lot of optimism,

and then you wake up in December, and the Bears just missed the playoffs. I don't think the Cowboys are going to make the playoffs. First of all, I think Philadelphia is the best team probably in the NFC. So they're playing for a wild card. The problem with playing for a wild card on the NFC, San Francisco was bad, now they're good. Minnesota was off.

I think they'll be better. Carolina was down. Atlanta was down. I think they'll be better. I think it's going to be a numbers game with Dallas. I think Dallas is going to be a 9-and-7 football team, and you're just going to wake up and it's going to be a bunch of tiebreakers, and they're not going to get in.

I don't think the Seahawks make it. Why? Because I think the Rams are the real deal. They've drafted well. They're good, getting a little old on the offensive line, but they've drafted it, and they have replacements. I think San Francisco is going to be the team that doubles their wins or more. Frankly, with Kyler Murray, I wouldn't want to play them early in the year.

I have no idea what I'm getting for Arizona. Arizona is going to shock some people in the first month to six weeks because nobody knows what they do. You got to go watch college film to figure out what the offense is. They're going to catch people flat-footed. So in the NFC again this year, Saints, Bears, Cowboys, Seahawks. Now, in all four of those, I think they're competitive teams. But I think once again, and this is what the numbers say, and I'm not trying to be contrarian, this is the NFC. AFC is the conference of Brady.

NFC is the conference of parity. and I think it's going to look totally different this year. All right, let me shift to this. So Jerry Jones isn't on Twitter. And somebody asked Jerry a few years ago, why aren't you not on Twitter? He had the best answer. He goes, I like the fact of deniability. He goes, if I have every one of my comments on Twitter, I can't deny it.

He goes, I like to be able to deny stuff. I didn't say that. I didn't do that. He goes to Twitter, I don't want myself out there that much. Well, Jerry Jones yesterday, today, sit-down interview. He picked a station. He picked a person. He said, I'm going to do a one-on-one interview.

Nice shade. Jerry's got the cowboy hat on. He's got the branding already. This was very classic Jerry. Make sure you can see the cowboy logo. It's a one-on-one interview. There's nice shade. The camera's all tied.

It's just Jerry. And he had a message to deliver to one Ezekiel Elliott. You don't have to have a rushing champion to win a Super Bowl, but Emmett was the first one to do it. And that's one of the dilemmas at running back is that the league knows that you can win Super Bowls and not have the Emmett Smith back there or not have Zeke back there. Consequently, when we are looking and putting Zeke's contract in place, we've got to realize that the ultimate goal, is to win the Super Bowl. Okay, Joy and I have been in TV too long.

That interview was not your typical training camp interview. Jerry had a cowboy hat and a cowboy shirt. The lighting was perfect for an older gentleman. The tree behind him. Oh, it's so serene and calm. It was serene and calm. Jerry picked that spot and the logo to deliver a one-on-one message. This is not Jerry Ad Living.

Jerry sat down, picked the word, pick the spot, pick the trees, pick the logo, and the hat to deliver a message to Zique. You don't really get us to the Super Bowl. So the game is on now. And by the way, the Cowboys added a running back yesterday. Zeke now officially is in Cabo. I've said before, I think you can get a ton of picks for him. Now, if it was a one-year situation, I would probably pay Zeke.

I'd front-load the contract. But I do think you have to be careful here. And this is where Steve Kerr and Anthony Davis, when the... the NBA came out and said Anthony Davis is a troubling situation. What the NBA, it's the message behind the message, what they were saying, Adam Silver called Steve Kerr probably and told him,

can you come out and say that? It's easier for a coach who everybody likes to say it than a commissioner. This Anthony Davis thing is a little scary for owners. And by the way, owners are the capital of a league. They are the most important people in a league because you can't have a league. XFL's coming in the spring. Can't have it without capital. You don't have players if you don't have guys, rich guys,

who have capital. There's a very interesting thing here. If Jerry, who has always been sort of at the forefront of the NFL business, Bob Kraft and Jerry have been at the forefront of the business mechanism in the NFL, you start paying an NFL running back two years early. You really open up a difficult situation for the league and other owners. Okay, so there's a business mechanism working here. Bob Kraft and Jerry Jones make the big decisions in this league.

You know who calls NFL networks and tells them what they have to pay every year? It's not Goodell. It's Bob Kraft. He runs that part of the operation. Jerry Jones, as a business, that's why Jerry was very concerned about the anthem stuff. That's why he'll reward DAC. The anthem was bad for business in the NFL. Dak took the Jerry Jones side of it.

Didn't play well on Twitter. Played very well, Jerry forever. Dak will be his guy on that. This two-year situation here, the NFL has never been jealous of the NBA. Now, they have at times used some of the great advantages of the NBA. They've cherry-picked their best parts of the NBA. They look at the NBA free agency and they're like, we kind of like that. So the NFL moved its free agency to March because they were like,

NBA gets like five, six weeks of free agency talk. So the NFL will cherry-pick things they like about the NBA. It's smart business, as they always say. If you rip off everybody, it's research. If you rip off one person, you're a thief. The NFL uses all these leagues and takes all the stuff they like from them, not just one league. But the NFL does not want to be the NBA. Okay, the NFL, I went and looked at the Harris poll this morning, most popular sports.

Among men, 42% say their favorite sport is football. 9% basketball. What about young people? 40% of kids under 18 prefer football over the NBA. That's young people. Well, what about liberals? two to one NFL. And the NFL had a year last year.

They moved up, NBA this year, slightly down. But over the last eight years, football, and I think a lot of it's gambling. The more we gamble, the more we watch football, I don't think anybody's to blame. I just think that's our gambling-centric society. The NFL likes a lot of things about the NBA, the way they handle free agency. Some of the individualism celebrations that are fun on social media. It doesn't want to be the NBA. So it's very interesting here.

If Jerry complies and gives a guy two years, a deal. What is the message you're sending? Yeah, if you're unhappy, we'll just, I think, I think there's things happening behind the scenes on this. And that's why Jerry, hat, shirt, shade, interview one-on-one, state of the union address that he didn't want you to think was a state of the union address. By the way, Gack Prescott and Jalen Smith have been talking about the Zeeke situation, here's what they have to say. Knowing his love for the game, knowing his love for his teammates, I'm sure, but business is business. That's for him and his team dander.

I mean, I know I'm here. That's the beautiful thing. You know, we're a team. We're going to be together. And I love the hell out of Zeeke. I think Jerry likes the way Jalen and Dak are handling business. I think they'll be rewarded. Not that Jerry resents Zeeke, but I think there's a big macro picture here. You start letting guys two years out break contracts. They got to mean something, folks. Contracts got to mean something. They're not everything.

They can be broken. They got to mean something. Greg Jennings around the corner. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost. its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field. and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different. intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood,

pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a guy.

game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually need people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get to. It's your podcast. Greg Jennings is joining us. Lavian Bell, season long holdout,

apparently wrecked a lot of people's fantasy football teams last year, contract dispute with the Steelers. So as Greg Jennings is joining us, I don't play fantasy football. I bet on games in my life. I bet I win it's over. I don't want to play a season long. It's like Bitcoin.

It goes against everything I believe in. If a centralized bank says we don't count your currency, then I'm not putting my money in Bitcoin. Okay. fantasy football goes against everything I believe it. In fantasy football, running backs are more valuable than quarterbacks, and Tom Brady is about the 15th best quarterback in the league. I'm not playing that game.

Okay, now, you went to top golf. Now, I'm going to talk about this in a second with you. Joy, you played top golf recently. Yes, I went for my nephew's 16th birthday. And it's the opposite of real golf. Right. And I was very confused. And I've been to a driving range before,

but there's like these holes that you're supposed to hit it in. And some are sideways, so you would never want to actually hit a golf ball in that direction if you are playing real golf. And then the more that you hit it in these random holes, you get more points. So the higher your score, you win. It's the opposite of everything golf

is. So fantasy, and I want to ask, because Levy and Bell yesterday apologized to all the fantasy fans out there. And my takeaway is one of these things in America, cruise ships and fantasy golf, fantasy sports, I don't, I'm fine with you doing them. I don't really get them. I don't want to be stranded at sea

with insurance salesman in the middle of the Atlantic. I'm not interested in that mode of travel, a cruise ship. When you were playing Greg Jennings in the NFL, did you feel at the end of your career that you could sense fans saw you as just a

commodity, they could bet on? Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm going to be completely transparent. I hated fantasy football for that reason because all someone cared about, all a fan cared about was, oh, you

killed it in fantasy for me. Oh, you suck in fantasy. And what I want to say as a rebuttal is, I don't care. Like, I really didn't. This is my livelihood. Like, it's a, it's a game. It's a fantasy for them that they hope you're consistent. They hope you're productive every single week. And the reality is you're going out there to do that, but the odds aren't in your favor every single week because you have an opponent in an opposing opposition that is going to try to prohibit you from doing so. The better receiver you

are, it's almost a badge of honor that they roll their coverage over and there's going to be weeks. Of course. They take you out of the game plan. And it's the ultimate badge of honor. It's like Greg Belichick, Greg Jennings is not going to beat us. And he has done that to me before.

Like going into a Patriots game as a matter of fact, it was a game where Matt Flynn started at quarterback we were in Foxborough and I remember reading an article and in that article because the Patriots had an opportunity to draft me they did not. They took

Charles Charles Johnson Chad Johnson from Florida Chad Jackson. Chad Jackson. Chad Jackson. That's who it was. Not one of Belichick's great moves. No it was not but he made it a point. He came up to me after the game I wasn't going to let you do anything today.

He made it a point and it was I was frustrated the entire game, but after hearing him say that, it was the ultimate sign of respect. Oh, God, yes. Because everywhere I went, it was two and three guys across from me. So the fan, the fantasy guy thinks you're a bum.

It's the opposite of the truth, which Belichick on tape said, oh, he's their best player. Yeah, so I'm going to take him away. I'm going to take him away. So the fan is like, you have a bad day. No, the ultimate moment in your career after your Super Bowl is Belichick saying,

I wasn't letting you beat us. Yeah, no. at all. That's why I'm not a fan. By the way, fans, you keep playing it. I get you like... But like top golf and fantasy football and cruise ships is all about camaraderie and like joking and having fun.

It's just fun. And listen, I've played fantasy football for a decade probably. But I don't lose any sleep over it. The objective with all of these cruise ships, top golf, as well as fantasy, is to entertain and draw non-fans. of whatever sport or whatever activity that is. Yes, it is.

It is for fringe fans, yes. I'm not interested. I'm not interested in human interaction. I like my own football or quarterback. Or celebration or cake. By the way, I was talking about, did you ever hold out once? No, never.

Okay, I'm not a holdout guy. It's just not my thing. I don't want my, here's the thing. I don't want my teammates in 100 degree weather in camp, and I'm holding out. I don't like that. I feel like they're going to resent me. So Zeke now is in Cabo as the Cowboys are in camp.

Is it fair to me to say, I don't like the optics of that? It's fair to you to say it, but as a teammate, they don't care. They really don't. Because it gives not only the guys who are behind Ezekieli an opportunity to step up and show what you're worth and show that you can fill those shoes as an entire running back unit, but it also is predicated on everyone's individual. situation. I wasn't a holdout guy, but if someone held out or chose to do so, I wasn't going to

judge them based on I didn't know their position. I didn't know their stance. I didn't know their circumstances. I didn't know what they were really fighting for. Obviously, the money, we all know it's about dollars and cents, but ultimately why. And that's where it's like, that's none of my business is not for me to entertain. So I'm going to do my job and be where I need to be. Ezekiel I have absolutely no problem with what he's doing because it's his approach. A lot of guys, it's not the popular thing to do. And so that's why we make it a big deal. And for those who are now saying, oh, Jerry Jones, we don't need a running back to get.

Exactly. We don't need a rusher, a leading NFL rusher. Number one, Ezekiel Elliott is the reason why opposing defenses have problems defending your offense. You pose another threat with Ezekiel Elliott. Just being on the football field, not only in the running game, but

as a passing option as well. So for them to act as though all of a sudden he's replaceable, it's not something new. Our guy's replaceable? Of course. But would we be better with them? Of course.

It doesn't. Guys retire every week. What about the whole thing, though? if I am Jerry Jones, man, if I start letting guys two years out dictate contracts, as a business owner, I'm not a fan of that. But what we have to understand, every guy, just because one guy does it, the idea of every guy is going to start doing this. No, that's unrealistic. That's unrealistic because you have to know your value. You have to understand what you bring to the table and really have the goal to say, you know what, I'm going to bet on myself. every guy is not cut like that.

You have some of the top players in the National Football League that will not hold out simply because it's just not who they are. It doesn't mean they believe any less about their value and about what they bring to that organization and that team. It just isn't who they are. So you won't have that problem. All right. Hey, every time there's an Aaron Rogers article that comes out

and Bucky Brooks, who I respect, came out and said, scale back a little of the love. Everybody always looks to Greg Jennings. Greg, what do you think of this article? Do you not like that position? Do you like it? When basically the article says what I believe, what Bucky believes, you've never stated that Aaron's overrated.

But you have become an openly honest, critical voice of Aaron. And I know you've probably gotten blowback on that. Of course. From Green Bay fans. From everywhere. But you appear to be comfortable. with your place right now in Packerland.

So when you see these articles on, take me to where you are in Packerland now as the TV analyst of Note in America willing to criticize at certain junctures, Aaron Rogers. Oh, I'm completely disliked in Packerland when it comes to any comment, any topic. It's almost as if I speak down about the Packer organization

or I'm kind of the Aaron that always tries to put a spear or arrow in the head of what's going on in the Packer organization or Packer world. But let me say this. I've always been very critical constructively of Aaron Rogers because I have an experience not only with him, but within that organization. So I have been validated to do so. but I have never once been unfair when it comes to his ability on the football field. Now, with saying that, I respect Bucky.

I love everything that he does, and I think that his article validates his point. His argument is completely validated because of the statistics that he chose to put together and make sure that his point was made. However, I throw out every statistic in this, when it comes to this topic, simply because the eye test. That's all I need. I don't care if you don't, this monitor right now has no volume.

And if we showed Aaron Rogers and all his flaws and his highlights, we want that guy. Right. We don't have to have anyone show us or flash any statistic or anything, any general manager. this is why they rate him number one because they understand if I'm standing on the opposing sideline and number 12 in green and gold is on the football field I'm a little nervous actually I'm a lot nervous because I have the opportunity to allow what I feel like I can obtain as a win slip through my hands because of him you can't tell me there's one general manager out there or owner that wouldn't take that guy. Not one. Above. And when I look at Patrick Mahomes,

is he great? Absolutely. I'm not taking anything away from any of those guys. But you look at guys like Philip Rivers, he hasn't won a championship. Is he effective? Yes. But we have to pull the numbers to support that. But am I in terror when Philip Rivers has the ball with two minutes remaining? You don't think, oh, he's going to beat me. No, you don't think that. Can he? Absolutely. Drew Brees, do you think that? Yes. Tom Brady, do you think that? Yes. Russell Williams, Russell Wilson, do you think that? Yes. Guys like that, you think that about and you put them in a high regard. Aaron Rogers has never been a timing quarterback. He can be, but what makes him most lethal is his ability not to be. His ability to be effective, unscripted, without, being on time. That's what makes him so scary to opposing coordinators and opposing defenses. Yeah, he did not play within the system. He's got his own. He's a little bit like LeBron. He becomes the system. He's got a way of doing it, and then you kind of build it around his strengths. You know what? I'm glad you mentioned LeBron because this is another thing that bothers me about

this article. And again, I respect Bucky and I think he does a phenomenal job. And I agree with him to a certain extent. Just not when it comes to Aaron. It's not a top five quarterback. When you look at Aaron Rogers last year, his health played a huge role. And I know he mentions, you know, everybody's going to mention his health. Well, it's just, it's no different than LeBron James. We can completely snatch him from the greatest player in the National Basketball Association because he missed 18 games and we didn't see the best that he had to offer the entirety of the year. And most importantly, when it matters, when all eyeballs glued to a television, playoffs.

We didn't see him in the playoffs. So we started to see and respect and get exposed to other talent. That's what then draws us away from, man, this guy may be better than LeBron James. Why are we saying that? Because we don't have him to look at every single day like we once did. Aaron Rogers has been in that situation where last the year before last, he was injured. He's missed a bunch of games. He's missed a bunch of games.

So he hasn't been able to. So your stats are going to be tailored to make sure that. that, okay, let me cut off this. Well, you can't really say a full year because he didn't play a full year. We don't have a full two years to go off of for Aaron Rogers. So, again, if I'm a general manager, and again, I am very critical of Aaron Rogers. But when it comes to his play, I have never been one to say he is not the best. He is, I wouldn't say he's the goat because of Tom Brady and what he's been able to accomplish.

but Aaron Rogers is right there in that question because of the threat that he poses he just doesn't have the wins to align with it. Almost like you're making up to him right here in the hurry. Not at all. I'm not a makeup type of guy. I've never had a grudge or anything, but... I know.

Me the same way. I'll be watching what he does. Right. Same way with Westbrook. I'm not going to apologize to him, but he's welcome on the couch at any time. I apologize to him. Greg Jennings, Joy, with the news.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, up into this holdout, Jerry Jones has been pretty public about loving Zeke. He pumps him up a lot, and he did publicly defend him in the battle against the NFL and Goodell. But now Jerry is kind of changing his tune a little bit. Yeah. The point there is you don't have to have a rushing champion to win a Super Bowl.

But Emmett was the first one to do it. And that's one of the dilemmas at running back. is that the league knows that you can win Super Bowls and not have the Emmett Smith back there or not have Zeke back there. And so you've got to do all of the things, along with having Zeke, that allow you to have other players

so that you can win the Super Bowl. And that's what we're going through. You know, it may sound like some subtle shade that Derry is throwing there, but he is not wrong. He came with the facts on that one because it actually hasn't happened for 21 years.

Is that right? Terrell Davis in 1998 with the Broncos was the last time, with the last rushing champion. And they had John Elway. Well, I mean, I think most, yes, they did, but most players on that team would say that TD was a crucial part of them winning the championship. And if you look back, I mean, this is just back to 2009. I mean, it literally goes back to 98 that there's a Super Bowl winning team that does not

have a rushing champion. It really is not really the best kind of information. that you have when you're trying to negotiate a deal two years out. Analytics can be very cruel to certain positions in pro sports. Yes. Starting pitching, centers in the NBA, running backs in the NFL, analytics. And I like analytics, but they're not your ally depending on your position. It's a rough situation that seeks in.

I don't, like I said earlier, we didn't really see this coming and clear the Cowboys didn't either. But the pendulum has swung back the other way for running backs. I feel like it happens every couple years where you'll get an upswing and everyone loves the running back position and is willing to pay for it and one or two guys have breakout years that change the game for certain teams and then it swings back and this is kind of the space that they're in now and Zeke's catching it. So Mark Enger might be a Raven now,

but doesn't mean he's going to forget how his final season with the Saints ended this past year. He was talking to Peter King about the missed past interference call in the NSC championship game and he said that is something that no one on our team, no one in our organization will ever get over. It is tough. Some players play 14, 15 years without making it to a playoff game. So to be able to make it to that point, if you get this call, you've got a fresh set of downs and you're going to the Super Bowl, it was sickening.

Every time I see the play, it's a bad feeling. It's a dark cloud over me. Better get over that. Well, he moved to Baltimore, so he didn't have to worry about it. He didn't think about it anymore. I will say, though, it really is time to get over it. I gave Saints fans and the city and the organization, like a lot of leeway when it came to this because it is an all-time bad call.

But, I mean, there's so many instances throughout sports where you can pull up an all-time bad call. The Saints took a lead here with a field goal. They led the game at home. They make a stop. It went to overtime. I'm saying you're not the only team to get a blown call and have it in a devastating fashion. You have to get over it.

It's sports. You have to have a short game. term memory. Fans, I get it. But in some ways, in some ways with fans, I don't think it's good either because that energy kind of carries over to the team because they're going to be hammering media about it. And then the media are going to continue to ask the players about it. And then players are going to have to continue to talk about it. And it's like, it's like, cloud. That's what he said. Like, it's a dark cloud over you. It's just this constant, like, moving energy of negativity. Like, it happens. I understand it was devastating. Come back and win.

And then you'll never think about it again. But, It is what it is. So, finally, last season was pretty forgettable for Carmelo Anthony. He signed with the Rockets last summer and played 10 games before they traded him to the Bulls, where he was waived. But Mello's trainer, Chris Brickley, appeared on the breakfast club and had this to say. You could easily better than 60%, 70% of NBA players walking around. It's just, I think, teams are afraid of, you know, that I want to be a starter.

I want this. That's not the case, though. Mello just wants to go be, he just wants to have a final season, have a farewell season. That's what I'm saying. Do what D-Wa did. Do the jersey swap. He had a great career. He's a Hall of Famer. So hopefully that can happen. Damien Lillard agrees. He tweeted that

Mello deserves a farewell season. He tweeted hashtag vote for Mello farewell season. Hashtag Stop playing Mello. Although the Lee has actually stopped playing Mello. He wants them to do a farewell season for him. look, if you compare Mello and Wade, Wade has had a significantly more successful and consistent career.

People love playing with Dwayne. Well, I will say, though, I do think players have a lot of respect for Mello and a lot of love for Mello. You can see that from Dame Sweet, even though he is considered a team killer or whatever. He is kind of a Hoops icon. Like, he does have a significant place in Hoops culture. He's known for being a score and getting buckets. And, I mean, he was an 11-time All-Star. He made the playoffs 11 times out of 16 seasons.

Obviously, you can't compare it to Wade's career. Wade has three championships and finals MVP to all-em-all-MBA teams. Those credentials are not comparable. But there is something to this. I don't know if he's going to end up on a team next year, though. It could be a very weird, awkward ending to Mello's career. And that, I think, is what may bother some players, that they do feel like he is up there with that level.

to at least end his career in a... Well, he's one of the great... In a well-received fashion with some closure, as opposed to this weird limlo's space that he's in now. As great a talent as John Wall or Mello are, it doesn't feel like players love playing with them. That's one of the gifts of LeBron's first 12 years. People like playing with LeBron.

People like playing with D-Waid. People, you know, Kobe, for all his sort of ball-centric nature, he lasted like six years with Shaq and many years. with Gassal. It's not that Mello lacks talent. I mean, you watch the highlights. He's just a great mid-range player. There's no doubting. He's in a Hall of Famer. But, man, I know we all

think the NBA is an individual game. You've got to be able to play with dudes. You can't win by you can't... And what did all those guys that you just mentioned do win championships? Wade, LeBron, Kobe. So even though they may have been considered tough teammates from time to time, or certain

guys Kyrie might have left him or Kobe may have been hard on teammates, they won championship. So I'm with you on that. I just think that, I mean, we look back at certain players' careers just because they didn't win championship. They weren't, doesn't mean they weren't considered all-time grades. But I do think Mello's got more than that.

He wouldn't play defense. And I don't think that Mello evolved with the game. No. He's not known for taking care of his body in the way that most of NBA players do, at least in this era. But I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how this goes down next year. I never think anybody's a victim of their reputation.

Like mellow is really what he is, which is a great all-time score. Hall of Famer. But boy, he left a lot on the table. He left a lot. Definitely all-time score. He's 19th on the all-time scoring list. Yeah, that doesn't shock me. Joy with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Law News. Three Super Bowl wins. Mark Schlerth has a story. That's next. It's The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m.

Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial, calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and

explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world. that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection.

If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Three Super Bowls with Mark Schler.

Five minutes we got. That's all we got today. We ran late. I want to talk about Carmelo Anthony with you because Carmelo Anthony, a lot of times with pro athletes, once they get out of their prime, self-awareness is huge. Right? Like, here's what I can do. Here's what I can't.

I'm going to play to my strengths. So you knew, like Carmelo, I think, has always struggled with what he is and what he thinks he is. Sure. I think the Denver Nuggets could sign him and say, we need you about nine minutes. hit buckets in the playoffs. Well, you think about it with the Joker inside, one of the best bashing big men in basketball, one of the most skilled guys in basketball,

they don't have a guy that can kick out and can consistently knock down a jumper, right? They don't, like, you could be competing for a championship. If you swallow, you probably go back to Denver and say, man, I'll be your six, man. It's very. I feel, I just feel like the one thing that Nuggets sneak, because Millsap can knock down a shot, they don't have a guy, Barton, they don't have a guy that can consistently knock down a jumper. A lot of team, by the way, there's a lot of teams that have this, but mellow struggles with self-awareness.

When did you know? Oh, it's over. Right. I've told this story before, but like I was watching, I didn't have my glasses, and we were watching practice. And it was a snowy day in Denver, and we used to have these sweatshirts that we'd wear out of practice on snowy days, right? And I, like, I couldn't make out, I couldn't make out the number. And I'm watching the film, and I'm kind of squinting. and I'm like, oh my gosh, who's playing left guard?

I was like, that dude sucks. And I'm thinking of this in my head while I'm watching the film because I thought it was one of our practice squad guys because late in the season, and I was just coming off a knee surgery. At that time, that was my 20th knee surgery. I was coming off a knee surgery. I was trying to make it back, number 20,

and I was like, I was really struggling, right? Really, no, that was 19 because I had another surgery later and that ended my career. but I'm watching the film I'm like that dude sucks man oh he's horrible he's not gonna make in this league and then I got closer and I was like I almost stood up I was like oh my god that's me

like this is where I am and it hit me the realization for me and it was heartbreaking for me because I was like I'm more of a hindrance to my team than I am a help anymore and I was like I can't I can't do this anymore and I went and I literally talked to Mike I started one more game.

I was awful. I pulled myself out of the game about, I don't know, like five plays into it. I couldn't. I just was awful. And I'm like, but it was self-awareness. It was understanding. I like, I cannot. I'm not helping you anymore, man.

Like, I could always even injured. I was always good enough and I always understood the game well enough to say, hey, man, I can't put myself in this position because I can't recover, but I can still be pretty damn good as long as I don't get myself in trouble. And so I could take great angles, I could funnel guys, I could do things. And I was always, you know, I was always just strong as the day is long. You know, I mean, I always had that as part of my tool belt, so to speak. But yeah, when it was like I literally, I get emotional thinking about it.

I literally watch myself, I go, I'm not helping my team anymore. It's the end of your dream. Yeah. I was like, it's over. And then I ended up talking to Shanahan and it was like, Mike, this is not. Yeah. Like, I got to get my knee. fixed and this is this is it man

I'm not I'm I can't play this game anymore this is one of the things Joy and I have talked about this time and again will Russell Westbrook work in Houston and it will only work if he intellectually can come to terms with the old Russell doesn't

work Russell you got to shoot better threes you're not going to have the ball hard and is he's going to control the tempo you're going to have to play out the ball which means Russell move without the ball like Steph Curry and it's hard. It's hard. And I get it, by the way. I wasn't mature enough at 28 to be able to do that. Now, now I got gray hair. Now I can be, I do this. I don't do that. I'm confident.

I can, I, but to ask pro athletes, I mean, Carmelo, by athlete years, is an old man. Right. By life years, he's a kid. Yeah. He's like a kid. I was just listening to this, this Christian podcast with my daughter. Yeah. And how God created us to move. Like, you think about it. Everything moves. Everything in life. moves and we are created to move. We're created to be active. And it's not only active from a physical standpoint, but as you age and as you lose some of that physical skill set, it has to go from the neck up. You have to start thinking and movement with the brain of saying, what can I be good at? How can I still be effective? How can I still be productive? How can I help my team win?

even though I'm limited compared to what I was at 19 or 20 and there's this constant evolution of you as a human and if you can't do that if you can't do that you'll get booted out you'll be one of those guys that wonders what happened like what happened to me well you didn't evolve yeah Houston will work it's Hardin's team he's not in a position to have to change Hardin's not going to change his game is working

Westbrook is half going to have to have go, wow, I've got to now become a little bit different player. And when you have stacks of money and you're young and you're in your 20, that's asking a lot of an alpha male. We got to go. Mark Slareth, good stories. Hour 3 coming up next. One more herd?

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

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And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of the first. the game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, blue, 42.

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I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Well, we are at that time right now. It's really, I love late July, early August, camps, NFL, reporters bouncing around to camps. Tom Pellasaro has been a national reporter for the NFL network and the NFL.com.

Cover the league for over 15 years, joining us via the Coward Global Satellite Network. Eagles, Seahawks, Colts, Viking camps. So let's start with all of those teams. I think the Eagles are the best roster. Offensive line, defensive line. I like their GM. I like their coach. I mean, what was Eagles camp like?

I know it's early, Tom. What was your takeaway on Philly? The first thing that you noticed. when you go in Eagles camp right now is that Carson Wentz looks really lean. And you first think, all right, maybe that's just because he's not wearing the knee brace anymore. Naturally, he's going to be moving around a little bit better. But everybody I've talked to there through the course of the offseason and said the bounce is back in his step. You remember a year ago, he was still coming back from the knee injury.

He had spotty participation through the off season, missed a good chunk of training camp. Well, now the guy is healthy. The back issues are behind him. And he said he changed up his diet this off season. He dropped a couple pounds. He has leaned out a little bit. he looks really good. And then you look at the weapons that Howie Roseman has put around him. Think about this. Howie Roseman gave up two sixth round draft picks, got to Sean Jackson and Jordan Howard on a team that already had Alshon Jeffrey, already had Nelson Agalore, Zach Ertz.

They've got a ton of pieces around Carson Wentz, who, if he stays healthy like it was at the tail end of the 2017 season, Colin, we know this guy could be an MVP caliber player. Yeah, I have them getting to the NFC championship. You're from Minnesota. Let's talk Vikings. I think they'll have a bounce back. year. I think Kirk Cousins, year two in the offense will be better. I still love their roster. I think Mike Zimmer's a understated coach. I think he's all my NFL guys, all my scouts, all my executives, my sources. They love Mike Zimmer. They think he's an exceptional coach. I think the Vikings bounce back and have a playoff level year. What say you? I spent some time with Mike Zimmer at his ranch down in Kentucky a couple of weeks ago, and he is still the same guy he's always been. He's 63 years old now, says that he knows he can coach

into his 70s if he wants to. The thing that he keeps talking about is they need to do more to help Kirk Cousins. You pay the guy $84 million, I get it. Everybody wants to think that he's going to put the team on his back. But go back to a year ago. They had some issues along the offensive line, big issues. Dalvin Cook, the starting running back,

who might be the best player the Vikings have on offense. He was hurt. All of a sudden, they were in a shotgun type of passing offense. They were throwing the ball 40 plus times per game. It worked the first half of the season. Cousins, that offense performed pretty well. but it caught up to them down the stretch. So what did they do in the course of this offseason?

They overhaul the scheme. They bring in Gary Kubiak to work with Kevin Stefansky, who's a bright young play caller. They're going to run kind of that Kyle Shanahan, Mike Shanahan style of offense. Mike Shanahan, of course, the guy who drafted Kirk Cousins. Zimmer told me, Cousins is a really good on-the-move quarterback. So expect them to do a lot of play action, a lot of bootlegs.

They've got Adam Thielen, Stefan Diggs. Delvin Cook is healthy now. They invested some resources into that offensive line. year after year, Mike Zimmer's defense is going to be top five in terms of points allowed. They've just got to do enough offensively, and they're confident that these changes are really going to play to Kirk Cousin's strengths. Well, Philadelphia and Minnesota, I could certainly make an argument, two best rosters in the NFC. I do like Wentz more than Kirk, so I would take Philadelphia there. Let's move to the Colts camp where, and I said this before, many people, athletes or not, have had a physical, some duress in their life, and they're never quite the same.

I don't think Andrew Luck is at 100%. I did not last year. I thought his arm looked tired late. Right now he's got a calf strain. I think this team after this draft and free agency period, I do believe Tom they're capable, if not favored, for a Super Bowl. I think they're capable of it. Do you?

As I've been making these travels around to other camps, people keep asking me, how do the Colts look? They look good, don't they? Chris Ballard and his staff there have done such a phenomenal job of improving the depth on the roster. upgrading positions like cornerback where they had nobody when he got there. They'd gotten a lot better there. You go out and get a Justin Houston in the third wave of free agency, a veteran pass rusher, put him there with Darius Leonard. A lot of it's going to come down to what can

Andrew Luck do. In terms of his health right now, there's been a lot of focus about the calf strain that was lingering from back in the spring. He didn't practice today. Here's what I'm told. Luck is really, really in tune with how he is physically because everything that he went through with the shoulder. So he just wants to be really, really cautious, get this thing settled down because it does continue to nag at him. But I was told he was even doing some throwing on the side today, just wasn't doing it in practice. When I talked to luck, he told me, this does not weigh on me like the shoulder. He thinks he's going to be fine, just wants to make sure that he's going through the proper steps. No, they didn't spend big and free agency. They didn't make a push for Levi-on-Bel.

They had no intention of doing that. But they still have Ty Wylton. They like the acquisition that they made in Devin Funches coming over. Frank Reich told me he's a big man with little man footwork. They think in man-to-man coverage on those third downs, he's going to be a weapon for them. And their backs, don't overlook Marlon Mack. Didn't have an off-season a year ago because of some injuries. They think that with that full off-season,

he's gaining confidence he could be pretty good too. And let's go to finally the Seahawks, another camp you went to. Now, whereas the Packers knew Aaron's contract would be an issue about two years ago and where the chiefs today know they're going to have to pay Patrick Mahomes in a couple of years. You know, Russell Wilson, I think caught John Snyder and maybe Pete off guard a little,

wanting a new contract quickly, and they had to, in the draft, they'd made four or five picks into 11. It feels like, to me, they're a young team that will grow during the season. They've got a lot of new parts here. And by the way, Pete's a very good teacher. Maybe he likes young rosters. What was your vibe when you went to Kirkland and watched the Seahawks? You're exactly right, Colin. Pete Carroll's entire program is built on competition. You look at their track record through the years.

They are not afraid to put rookies, young players on the field from week one, even if they're not quite ready, because they feel like those game reps in addition to the practice reps really make a difference. And those guys will get better and better over the course of the season. I mean, I'm taking it back every time I go through there because they had so many big personalities. They had so many superstars when they were winning the Super Bowl. Now the guys who are left, it's Bobby Wagner, it's Russell Wilson. it's KJ Wright, and then it's a lot of guys you're having to look down at the roster and say, okay, I think I know who that is. Is this going to be the next guy who makes an impact?

Losing Jaron Reed for the first six games, that's a big deal for them. He was a 10.5 sack guy a year ago. Where's the pass for us going to come from after they traded away Frank Clark? That's probably the biggest question facing this team, but they have offensive line continuity. They were effective running the football in volume last year. They think that their running backs are really underrated with Chris Carson,

Rashad Penny, who has undeniable talent, their top draft pick a year ago. He's learning to become a pro. We'll see what D.K. Metcalf can do in the early going because the loss of Doug Baldwin's a big deal with Metcalf. What every scout I talked to to the process talked about was the things that he can't do. This guy can only run two different routes. He's a straight line speed guy. Well, the Seahawks coaches, when they reviewed him, they came up with a really specific plan. They're a vertical shot passing team going in.

That's the style of offense they want to play. And we all know D.K. Metcalf can do one thing. run a vertical. Tom Pellasaro joining us. Previously USA Today, now NFL network, NFL.com. The Cowboys, Jerry Jones yesterday, Joy and I were laughing about this. Jerry put on the cowboy hat. They found a perfect shaded area. It's a well-done one-on-one interview. It was like he's not trying to look like he prepared for the interview, but it's very well done. The lighting's perfect. And I believe he wanted to make a strong address. yesterday saying, you know, running backs don't get to the Super Bowl.

This was Jerry with a little bit of his owner's address. Zeke was hearing it even though he tried to act like, you know, this is just an off-the-cuff interview. I think Jerry took a stand yesterday in this interview saying basically, Zeke, we're not paying you two years out. And if we do, it's not the number you're going to like. That was my takeaway. That's how it landed for me, Tom. You heard it, I'm sure.

How did it land for you? That was my first reaction was that it's a very clear message from Jerry Jones. My second reaction was to think back to 1993 when Emmett Smith, the leading rusher in the league, held out into the season. They started 0 and 2, and all of a sudden the Cowboys found a way to get that deal done. They have a track record here of wanting to pay the running back position. They've not been scared about that. Jerry's talked openly about how excited he is that they feel like they've got their new triplets

with Dak Prescott, with Amari Cooper, who they trade a first round pick for a year ago, and then with Ezekiel Elliott. He has not had injury issues like a DeMarco Murray, which may have impacted the Cowboys' decision not to resign Murray for the long term. Zeke is still only 24 years old. There have been some off-field questions, but the Cowboys have been steadfast in their support of Ezekiel Elliott

through all that, sending Cowboys attorneys into his appeals hearings, speaking openly that they have Zeke's back, even when he was going through some difficult things, some of them self-inflicted. And Zeke himself has said he needs to be conscientious about the positions he's putting himself in, continue to work to be a better pro, a better person. The logical outcome to all of this is that Zechiel Elliott becomes the highest paid running back in the NFL. It is with the Dallas Cowboys that this thing does get done before the season.

What we know as of now, though, Zeke is in Cabo, Mexico. His agents are down there as well. Talks are active. This is certainly a guy who the Cowboys would still like to get into camp, even if the only real reaction when he's not there is to try to talk tough. All right, Tom Pelliserro, great stuff. NFL network, NFL.com. Love to have you on again, Tom. Appreciate your work. Nice job.

Thank you. Anytime, Colin. You bet. All sorts of stuff. He'd been to the Vikings camp, the Eagles camp. He said Carson Wentz looked thin. You know, the NFC is just so hard to predict. Again, two years ago, we loved the Vikings.

Last year, Kirk Cousins left us down. Minnesota probably has the second best roster. I mean, the three best rosters to me in the NFC are Philadelphia, Rams, Vikings. Like, don't, don't sell your Minnesota stock. That division is, that division is fascinating. Aaron Rogers is back with a really young team. Chicago's defense is frightening.

Minnesota's roster is amazing. And your fourth best team, Detroit, has Matt Stafford, who'll pick you off if you have to go to Michigan and play him, and he gets hot. So interesting division. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. Another interesting division, the AFC North, which the Ravens play in. They're not going to shy away from letting Lamar Jackson use his legs this season. And NFL networks Brian Billick asked John Harbaugh, what the pitch count on Jackson's running might be this season. You see a guy like Cam Newton, a max of 139 times in a given year? Is there an over under on that someplace? I bet the over on that one. I bet the over for sure on that.

No hesitation either. It's going to be interesting. I don't think we know the exact numbers or the math. What's the next day going to be? We're about to find out. We're about to find out what the limits are on that. I think it's going to open up opportunities for quarterbacks, you know, all across and in our league. And it's going to make it tough on defenses.

So that's the idea. They're so different in the rest of the league. So totally different. I'm just so skeptical of this. I don't. I mean, I love his game, and I would like to see him be successful. I think he's fun. But I just would like to see him add more of a passing element to it.

And I don't think that this is sustainable. You know, Joey, it's interesting about this. I've often compared Trabisky and Lamar Jackson. Really athletic. I think they're limited throwers. The difference is, Tribisky still has a great defense. Baltimore lost a lot of their defense, translation.

He's going to be in some shootouts. I mean, Baltimore last year, defense running Lamar worked. Now without that defense, you've got to score 27 on it, and it's hard with their offense. I just also think it's, if you have a limited offense, it's easier to game plan for.

I mean, this is the NFL. It's not college. There's elements to the college game that NFL coaches have been implementing, but you have to be able to throw the ball, and you have to be able to throw the ball from the pocket. This division's crazy. So you've got the Baker thing, O'Dale. Right.

And then you get the Steelers are reborn. And then you've got Baltimore's coming in and saying, we're kind of going to run a college offense. It's going to be, it's amazing how many fascinating divisions there are this year. This division, now, Cincinnati, it's nothing against. Cincinnati, but I don't love what they're doing right now at quarterback coach, so I'll take them off. But I'm telling you, Baltimore, I think they're well coached. I think they're contrary into the league.

I think Lamar's hard to play. If I got two weeks to prepare for him, like in the playoffs, but man, when he drops into town and you've been playing Drew Breeze and past happy teams. He's fast. He's athletic. He can definitely, I mean, it is hard to game plan for because it's a constant moving offense. I went to the Charger game last year where they played him for the first time.

They were completely caught off guard. They didn't know what to do with it. But that's what I'm saying. They're not going to be caught off guard now. And now they're really not going to be caught off guard because they're saying they are going to count on him running, which is part of his game. So I get it.

But I just like to see them develop more of it. So the Colts begin their second week of training camp today. They'll be doing it without Andrew Luck, who we're just talking about. He is not practicing due to his calf injury. Coach Frank Wright told reporters he will not participate in the next two practices. He is going to be out for the rest of. rest of the week, and he is not ready to take the next step.

His cap injury has been going on for three months now, and he will not be playing in the opener against Buffalo. You don't feel like he should play in a preseason game for the rest of his career. I don't want any quarterback to play. Outside of a rookie, I don't want any, I want Sam Darnold to play a little bit. I want Sam to have 60 pass attempts. I don't want my quarterbacks playing in preseason. I don't think that if you're a veteran quarterback, you need to play in preseason games.

I think training camp is very important, obviously, and you need to get in shape and you need to get in rhythm with your receivers, and you need to get in rhythm with rookies that are on the team as well. So there is some value in it there. And look, sometimes you've got to play. Like, injuries happen. That doesn't mean you can't have training camp.

It doesn't mean you can't have a preseason just because there's the risk of injury. You can twist your ankle walking on some steps. But with luck, it's just, I just don't know what to trust here. I don't. And he is their team. And we talk about how valuable Andrew Luck is. Good Lord. So this is concerning to me. I thought that last game of the year at Kansas City with

the cold weather, remember that game, I thought he looked tired. I thought Drew Breeze at the end of the year. I thought his arm looked tired. I thought luck the last couple of games I'm like he doesn't look like he looked in October. I mean, you take every rep, you're coming off an injury. Your body can take so many throws. I love to see him not coming off an injury. So finally, he talked about this a lot today. You do not play fantasy football. I do not. By the way, not anti-enna fantasy. I just don't get it. Well, you may not know this, but losing fantasy football can have some very serious consequences. Like if you are the loser of a fantasy team, sometimes you have to get your haircuts, you have to get tattoos.

Like the punishments for losing your fantasy team can be very extensive. So you don't want to do that. And Levy on Bell clearly understands that. He has finally apologized to fantasy football owners. He may have felt let down that he didn't play in 2018. He tweeted this is long overdue. But I want to take a moment to apologize to all the fantasy owners who picked me last year. I'm sorry, couldn't pull through for y'all.

But trust me, this year we're about to be way different. I'm bringing the trophy this year. The trophy means what? I mean, it can mean a various amount of things. I was in two fantasy leagues last year. I won one. You won one? Yeah, I won one.

And then the one where I picked Levion with, I believe, was the second pick in the draft. I did not win. I still made it in the playoffs. I won a consolation game. But it's a, you know, if you're not first or last. but I was, I was. So you got burned by it? I got burned by Levyon last year.

Now, Goulet, did you play? Yes, and similar to Joy in one of my leagues I had. I draft. We all thought he would show up, so he still got drafted accordingly, and then he didn't show up. Right. And then every week he continued to not show up. I didn't draft him in my league. I kept him way too long in my league.

Like, I should have tried to make a trade earlier on and get something for him. Got trapped? Well, the problem is with fantasy football, if you draft someone like Levyon, you're likely going to take him high, like Goulet said. and sometimes you can't trade those players because they're like your first pick and sometimes they're very you know you're stuck with them like fantasy football is the sport where Tom Brady has no value

yeah it's kind of hard to explain to someone who doesn't play fantasy football it's hard to explain I don't take fantasy football that seriously like it doesn't hurt me when I lose but I'm also not in a league where there's a whole lot on the line other than bragging rights so if there was more on the line I would probably be more amped up about it but I will say this

So if you're in a fantasy league, don't be the dork that's tweeting hate at the players for not performing. Yeah, give me a break. No one looks silly in that situation but you. Of course the players don't care about your fantasy team. Most people don't care about your fantasy team. That's the joke. No one cares about your fantasy team but you because nobody has the same team that you have. So the only thing that we can agree on is Goulet and I taking Levion and getting burned on him.

But it is fun that Levion acknowledges this. Like he's kind of making a joke about it. But there is some relateability to fans because a lot of people play fantasy football. Oh, a lot. I bet. I bet the games. 50 million people play fantasy football. I'm not anti-fantasy football.

Like there are things in America. I don't get cruises. And by the way, you keep cruising. I'm not into being stuck in the Atlantic with strangers. I'm just not into that. There's fun for families. They take the kids all day. On a cruise ship.

You can usually buy a drink package and drink the whole time. It's good family fun. To me, it's a living hell. It's a prison on water. I'm trapped in the middle of the Atlantic. I mean, you do have to mentally commit to being on a boat for three days with strangers. That's hard for me. Can't do that.

Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. So we'll play a fantasy game to show you how dumb I am with fantasy football. We have a fantasy game. And we'll play it next and best for last. You can play along.

You're going to ask me who has value, who doesn't. I'm going to try to guess. I don't play it. I bet it. But it is kind of fascinating to know what matters in fantasy football that doesn't really matter in football. And that's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. All right.

Levy and Bell apologized yesterday before not playing last year because it screwed up the fantasy football players. of which Joy plays and John plays, and many Americans play, 50 million Americans play. I do not. I bet on games. I like the closure. I like the urgency. Here's my 100. I want 100.

I'm going to go out and take my dinner out for great Mexican food. I like the simplicity of it. Year-long fantasy for me, I don't play it. There is weekly fantasy. That's different. So I don't really understand fantasy football. I'm not joking here. I don't follow it.

This morning I was told in fantasy football, Tom Brady has no relevance. I don't know how to reconcile that. So I said this before. I can't, that's not my kind of football. So Joy is going to lead a game here. The staff come up with a game that they'll give me two players and I have to guess who's more valuable. Yes.

And this isn't weekly fantasy either because weekly fantasy is very different. This is like the initial fantasy. Yeah, the traditional season long fantasy. All right. Do you have any fantasy music by the way? Who is more valuable? All right. Who had more fantasy points last season according to the NFL's official fantasy stats.

Cam New. or Tom Brady. Well, Cam Newton was hurt, so it would have to be Tom Brady. No, it was Cam. Cam was hurt. 282.6 to Tom's 281.3. So Cam loves those little short passes, Tom Brady does. And short passes are no good. I mean, sometimes if you have a lot of them. But Cam throws running yards help Cam a lot.

Yeah. So running yards for Cam were a big deal. Yes, they help a lot. So Cam beat up, no playoffs, lousy year. more valuable than Super Bowl winning Tom Brady. Yes. Dak Prescott or Tom Brady. Well, now, Dak Prescott by a mile.

Yes. Not by mile. But he did have more. 285.9 to 281. So all he does, Dak and Dunk, that's all he does. How did he get all the points? So he runs a little. He doesn't even run as much as Cam.

No. But he had a little bit more, a little bit more points again. So running quarterback, your quarterback should be running all over the field. Yeah, you run up the field, yes. Most leagues, you get a point for 10 rushing yards. You get a point for 25 passing yards. So a long run is more valuable than say... So I should draft Lamar Jackson.

He's literally... He's Michael Jordan of fantasy. He would be. He's a good, solid fantasy club, I guess. How does this survive? If he remains healthy. How does fantasy sports survive with this nonsense? All right.

Dak Prescott or Philip Rivers. Well, Phillips, an old man that couldn't outrun a bar stool. so I'll say Dak Prescott. It is Dak, correct, but it's very close. How's it close? Philip can't move. I'd have to take a look at the stats. So it's very close.

Very close. I don't know how many touchdown passes Rivers through last year. Philip does throw the ball. Rivers throws the ball downfield a lot. So he has a lot of passing yards, right? Doesn't he throw? They had three great receivers last year. They moved one of them to the...

But there's also, you lose points for interceptions, and Dak doesn't throw a lot of those because he doesn't throw a lot of all. So the way you guys are sounding it, Dak Prescott's an inch from Kevin Durant is what you're telling me. According to you guys. Chargers running back Melvin Gordon or Patriots running back James White.

Okay, now it's running backs. Are they graded differently? Every league has like different... Okay, Melvin Gordon can catch and run and had way more yards. So Melvin Gordon? No, James White. Okay.

It's close again, but it was James White by a little bit. How? Melvin... Now listen, like Melvin Gordon is not a bad run. fantasy running back. It's not like it's like a huge gap here. James White, they don't even play him four weeks a year. I mean, like they won't even put him in the roster four weeks a year. He's the Patriots. I mean, it's all about matchups. All right, Bengals, wide receiver, Tyler Boyd, or Cowboys wide receiver, Amari Cooper. Oh, give me a break. You're going to tell me Tyler Boyd is

worth more than Amari Cooper. Yes, yes. By, I mean, not a lot, but by enough. How? We have a lot of teaching to do when it comes to how to play fantasy football well. This has become the Bitcoin of my life. I didn't want to try to explain to you the difference between PPR and not PPR. Yeah, that's, yeah. So Bitcoin, not a single bank in the world, no centralized bank will acknowledge Bitcoin. You're telling me that Bitcoin is worth more than Wells Fargo today. I mean, it's not that dramatic, but, you know, there's...

Tyler Boy, it's better than Amari Cooper. Brown's tight end, David & Joku, or Falcons tight-in, Austin Hooper. How about we do a game where I just tell you who the better player is? That's not how it works. It's not how fantasy works. That's why they call it fantasy. You're dreaming about relationships you could never really have. Like literally one week Andy Dalton could have a great matchup.

You pick them up and sit your starting quarterback. Would be Andy Dalton. Maybe. It depends on the matchup. I'll tell you when that day will happen. When I'm buried, You did not answer the question. Okay. In Joku's better than Austin Hooper. That's not the question.

Who was better in fantasy last year. Austin Hooper was better than David and Joku. In fantasy. This industry is never going to last. Significantly. Significantly better. Yeah, actually, yeah. That is a significant difference.

Okay, what did Austin Hooper do? They put hurdles, staple cheese on the field? Like, how? What did he do? Did he have a bunch of touchdowns? I don't know. Atlanta was terrible. He started 20 points more than in Joku.

Yeah. fantasy-wise, actually, they were not terrible. Julio Jones is great. Matt Ryan is actually a good fantasy quarterback. He was last year. He's actually a good quarterback. I won a league with Matt Ryan. They got to the Super Bowl.

That should be the way it works. But this new Bitcoin game, you got Austin Hooper, best player in the league next to James White. Doesn't even play. What's your next one? Chief's defense or Seahawks defense? The Chief's defense was second worst in NFL history. It was better.

And the Seahawks defense was excellent. Let me guess. Kansas City. This game is stupid. Fantasy football is never going to work. How are fans playing this? It's very successful. Saints running back, Alvin Kamara,

or Steelers quarterback, Ben Raffauber. Now you're goofing around with positions. This, I have no idea here. Well, sometimes your running back can be far more valuable. Okay, so I'm going to go, it makes it sound like, quarterbacks have to be more valuable than running backs. Big Ben.

Not always, no. Ava Cimar. Is more valuable than a guy that touches a ball 65 times a game? My drafting strategy is usually to get a high volume running back first. Yeah, I usually don't draft the quarterback until like the fifth or sixth round, actually. And that's early. Most fantasy experts will tell you do it at the end of the draft. Yeah.

You should get your sixth receiver before you should worry about a quarterback. Yeah. How does anybody enjoy this? This makes Canadian football look fascinating. It's a strategy. It's dumb. So I take nine running backs before I got a guy to can throw it? I don't do that because I like to have at least one solid starting quarterback.

Well, thank God, some common sense in the industry. Shame on you for wanting to have somebody who you can hike the ball to. But she still takes them fifth or sixth round. Yeah, I don't take them high. Oh, God. How does Kansas City's defense, do they have more interceptions than Seattle? They were very high in the league in sacks because they were always leading. You get points for sacks.

They gave up a ton of points in yards. Does that mean nothing? Not as much. God. Who constructed this game? This game was strange. You have to figure out how the points work first and then, you know, shodd- And you've won these leagues before.

Yes. I won twice. Gouley, have you ever won one of these leagues? I won one of my two leagues last year. Lord. This is crazy pills. It's because I took Patrick Mahones in the 16th round. So according to you, I should take some guy named Hooper, the Chiefs Defense,

and no quarterbacks and I'll have a dynasty. Who's the best player in fantasy football? Lavian Bell would be, right? He's a running back and he would be... I mean, I don't know, but he's very good. The top four guys this year and kind of the order changes are Zekyll Ehrlich, Sequele-Eyat, Seque One, Barclay, Christian McCaffrey, Alvin-A-Marra.

So those are the four best players. Those are the top four picks in every draft. Yeah. When this whole shenanigans, Tom Foolery, started years ago, did quarterbacks mean more 20 years ago? Or do they just... So they've never met anything? You pass more now?

than you used to. It's not that they don't mean anything. It just means that certain quarterbacks can get you a lot of points, certain weeks. So I saw on the AFC championship, Tom Brady, rifle through the Chiefs defense. And what it meant is Kansas City's defense is way more valuable. Good hell. There's a reason I don't play. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific.

Good to have you in today. Michael Vick, Greg Jennings, Mark Schlerer, told a great story. Tom Palisaro had all sorts of. NFL Colts, Seahawks, Vikings, Eagles, camps. Good stuff today. Michael Vick was on earlier today. We were talking about Odell Beckham Jr. And Michael Vic, similarly to OBJ, kind of an iconic brand formed very early in his career,

where Odell Beckham is as much brand as football. Michael, certainly early. Advertisers kind of fascinated by this new style of quarterback in Atlanta. And I asked Michael, does O'Dell Beckham sometimes feels like more brand than football? How does it land for you? No, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. You know, I love the fact that, you know, he's been productive. And as long as the production don't stop, O'Dell can do pretty much whatever you want.

Our conversation will be different if this was the quarterback. I remember my second year, Dan Reeves, you know, before the game started, I was, you know, jumping around with the guys and super hyper. And he pulled me to the side and said, oh, hold on, hold up, you're the quarterback. You've got to be different. Yeah, which has always been kind of a strange thing. It goes counterintuitive. You think the quarterback would be jumping up and down with the guys.

He's one of the guys. But what you really need, the quarterback has to be less emotional, kind of the adult in the room. And that's the reality of the position, because whereas a wide receiver can play with a chip on his shoulder, quarterbacks have to forget bad plays. Like you're leading the team, running the playbook, coach on the field.

So it is a little counterintuitive to what you'd think. I want my quarterback jumping up. That's what I've said about Baker. No, no, I want you back here. You're the grown-up. Let the receivers, backs, linebackers go crazy. You're the coach on the field. I don't want my coach on the sideline yelling screaming.

You never see Belichick lose control. For joy and everybody here, we'll see you tomorrow. Speak for yourself. Coming up next. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

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What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this guy, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Look, quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's he at?

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