The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Jordan brand, Steelers, NBA Finals, NFL predictions

Episode Date: May 19, 2020

Colin explains why Michael Jordan's shoe brand preserves his legacy, why the Steelers will probably have a bad season, why the path to the NBA Finals has gotten easier for LeBron James, and his NFL predictions. Guests include Ric Bucher, Kyle Long, Rob Parker, B.J. Armstrong, and Craig Fite. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The HARD podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1.

Find your local station for the Hurt at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHartRadio app by searching Hurd. Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on a Tuesday live in Los Angeles. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Rick Buecker this hour, NFL or Kyle Long next hour. Joy Taylor is joining me this morning as we continue to find engaging topics,

believe it or not, without sports. Also a very encouraging day. We live in the state of California, which was the most cautious, big state. We were very cautious. Our governor Gavin Newsom, very cautious. I don't know what happened in the last 48 hours to 72 hours. I've been texting people this morning. Somebody put heat on him.

Business leaders, the billionaire group, put heat on him. But suddenly, California is open for business. Come one, come all. Did you notice that yesterday? Joey, it happened very quickly. I was very surprised to get that alert on my phone. I was like, what's this? We think we skip. Okay.

But again, like any positive news I'm here for, so. It feels good this morning. It does feel good. California, New York are open for business. I think people are finally realizing it's just not a health issue. It is an economic issue we have and a mental health issue. We got to get stuff rolling. So, you know, one of the things about the Jordan documentary that's fascinating

that reminds me of football, we may watch football. we may watch football more, but I think we love our great basketball players more. I think we have deeper connections, and I'll get to that in a second. But I've never thought it's really a fair fight with Michael Jordan and LeBron. Michael Jordan was coming up. He was Nike's first big shoe star.

ESPN, the highlight machine. Michael was the best highlight machine. It was this convergence of all things. And Michael, who's great, rode the wave. It's impenetrable. Popularity. Ronald Reagan is arguably the most popular president in America. He made mistakes all the time, said things that you wouldn't say,

eh, just Teflon, just bounced it off because everybody love Reagan. If you love your own kids and you'll complain about him, but if the neighbor's kids had the same faults, you'd call them bad kids. Your kids, wow, they're children. Neighbors' kids, those are bad kids. They stole something. Those are bad kids. Your kids, well, they're just kids.

You love something, and we love MJ. and we love our NBA stars, but think about this. Joe Montana, Joe Cool, great-looking, legendary franchise. I mean, the Bulls run a legendary franchise before MJ was the goat. Four-for-four in the Super Bowls. Never threw an interception in a Super Bowl. Had teams coming from behind, the most watched Super Bowls.

He was the MVP in 3 of 4. Joe Cool had a nickname, great-looking, legendary franchise. We bailed on Joe Montana the minute Brady won his fifth Super Bowl. We bailed on Joe Montana like a New Year's resolution. Joy came up with that line. We never had a debate. I never did a single segment on my show. Joe or Brady, not one.

Either to the other network, either to this network. To this day, I've never done a single Montana Brady segment. Well, well, that's because Tom had more Super Bowls. Tom had only been MVP and half of them. Tom was five for seven. He'd lost two Super Bowls. Don't you always tell me it's about Magic Johnson went to a lot more finals than Michael Jordan did. A lot more.

Bill Russell won 11. It can't just be numbers, right? Because Russell's got almost double the titles that MJ has. I've never done a Bill Russell segment. You don't count him, so it's not just volume. We bailed on Joe Montana after Brady beat Atlanta. I don't even believe there was a segment on a debate show arguing it. We just bailed.

It's over. Yet LeBron James is going to crush Michael Jordan statistically. He already has in many areas. Michael's beaten a great team in the finals. Michael never did. LeBron is bigger and stronger. LeBron is one with two franchises. Mike went to a second.

It was a disaster. LeBron could win another. championship on a third team. But you know what you would say? Even if LeBron ends up winning seven championships, like Brady to Montana, winning more in sheer number, you know what you'd say? Well, he had to leave to do it. Yeah, I mean, I had to bounce around and go play with great players to do it.

Why? Why did we bail on Joe Montana? Joe Montana like Jordan was perfect. Joe Montana. Hey, Michael didn't get to the most finals. Magic got to more. A lot more. Nine.

30% more. You never gave him a shot. Bill Russell's got double the titles. You wouldn't consider arguing he's better than MJ. But the minute Brady had one more Super Bowl than Joe, we didn't even give it a debate segment. Why? It's the power of Nike. It's the power of shoes.

It's the power of glamour. And you saw that in the documentary. I am not saying Michael's the best player. What I'm saying is he and LeBron is not this Grand Canyon gap. A poll this week on the 17 comparisons, Michael and LeBron, Michael won all of them by an average of 70% to 30%. And I just, I noticed this with the death of Kobe Bryant. it gutted the city of Los Angeles.

Not just a city with thousands of stars, but a city with a franchise, the Lakers, that have five of the biggest seven stars in league history. Why? Because you felt like you knew Kobe. You wore Kobe. You connect with Kobe. I think we watch the NFL,

but I think we love our NBA stars more. Why? because of these shoe companies that build these incredible campaigns that let you know them behind the scenes, the access we have to the sports apparel, you'll wear a Kobe, you'll wear a Steph, you'll wear a Michael. But it's remarkable to me that we didn't give Joe Montana a single segment. We bailed on him, Mr. 4 for 4, Mr. MVP,

never threw a pick in a Super Bowl, good-looking, legendary franchise, come from behind wins. You had him mic, he was the coolest guy talking about the comedian John Candy in the stands as he's leading you to a win. Didn't get a segment. Didn't get a segment. Not one. I've never seen it. I've never done it.

Russell didn't get a segment ever. Double the MJ titles almost. It shows you the power of MJ is not Michael. LeBron James isn't just fighting the game of Michael. He's fighting the mythology. And it's why the first thing after. the documentary was done. LeBron came out yesterday and started talking about how he would have played great with MJ. He's covering the brand a little bit. Got into an argument with Brian

Winhorst. I did not say that. I said this. I did not say that. LeBron later came out and said, I think my Olympic dream team with Kobe D. Wade and me and our prime would have beaten the dream team. I'm not knocking LeBron. I'm just saying I think LeBron understands. He's not just chasing Michael. He's chasing a virtual bulletproof mythology that grows. every year, even when he's gone for 20 and we're just doing documentaries with old footage. All right, so I saw this story. One of the things I talk about a lot of this show is sort of evolving and adapting. Don't have opinions based on, you know, yesterday.

I mean, I refuse to be loyal to a bad restaurant. If I go to a restaurant back-to-back times and it's bad, I don't care if I went there 20 years. It's not good anymore. So I saw a story yesterday, some video, Big Ben Rothlessberger, he's trimming his beard. Everybody's like, Big Ben, Big Ben's laughing. He's throwing some passes. And, you know, it's nice to see. It's a good guy from the mountains, right?

And when I laid out my NFL standings about two weeks ago, the one legendary franchise that everybody thinks is really going to be good this year, and I don't, is the Pittsburgh Steelers. I have them at 7 and 9. And I think I no longer think of the Pittsburgh Steelers as a great organization. To be a great organization, you have to be A at owner, A at GM, A at quarterback, and A at coach. I've told you my feelings about Mike Tomlin. I think he's going to be a great TV analyst. I think he's a great guy. I think there are moments I like him.

But he's kind of sloppy, light on the details. I felt when he faced Belichick, he was completely out-coached. I never feel that when Andy Reid faces Belichick. I didn't feel that way when Doug Peterson faced Belichick. I never felt that way when Tony Dungey faced Belichick. I never feel that way when Pete Carroll faces Belichick. I feel that way when Tomlin faces Belichick. I also think Big Ben is off an injury, 38 years old, high on the drama,

doesn't have a star receiver, offensive line is aging. does everybody realize about Big Ben? Let's be honest about this. If you take out last year because he played a game and a half, so let's just pretend last year it didn't happen. He leads the NFL in interception since 2015. He doesn't work very hard in the offseason. Russell Wilson does.

Andrew Luck did. Carson Wins does. Drew Breeze does. Deshawn Watson does. Lamar Jackson does. I don't know if Patrick Mahom does. I don't see him much, but I imagine he does. Big Ben doesn't.

I talk about on this show, don't base an opinion on what happened yesterday. I've never understood the loyalty to sports. You would not go in an airline if you had bad experiences. You would not go to a restaurant if you've had bad experiences. When I look at the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Big Ben story, I have him finishing third in their division. I just don't, and I don't know any clear way to say it. It's a head coach quarterback league.

I don't think they're an A& either. I also don't think there is well. run as Kansas City right now. I don't think they're as well run as Philadelphia in their own state right now. I think there's seven or eight teams in the NFL, including San Francisco, Baltimore, that are just better run. Nothing against them. But when I see the Big Ben video, I'm like, cool, I still think you're finishing third. The league's evolving. It's adapting. Lots of smart people, some brilliant young coaches, some quarterbacks that work harder. Big Ben has become more legacy than legend to me.

All the good stuff feels like years and years and years ago. Coming up next, a sneaky, big story happened in sports. And it was good news for LeBron. Sneaky big. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed the game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible, guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross

double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George We've got to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys?

This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Come out.

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. apart these days. We're sharing more, though. Geico's sharing more. Geico give back. 15% credit car and motorcycle policies, both current and new customers. Geico.com. Get info. Eligibility on the

giveback. Good to have you in. Rick Buecker's got a great article out. There's a lot of dispute whether KD and MJ could have played together. He's got some thoughts on that. He's talked to people around the NBA. So this is a sneaky big story. One of the reasons I do believe the NBA needs to come back is because the Lakers are good this year and the Celtics are good this year. And here's a story that helps the Lakers, actually. Bojohn Bogdanovich, a 20-point-a-game score for the Utah Jazz, a sneaky good player for an offense that can struggle in Utah, for a very well-coached team and a very good defensive team and a very good team at home, he's out for the season.

He's going to have a surgery. He'd been playing with discomfort. So he's one of the best three-point shooters. He's a 20-point-a-game score for this franchise, and LeBron was going to face Utah in the second round. So Utah would have been sneaky tough on the Lakers because they have a good. great rim protector, Rudy Gobert. He's a great, great rim protector. LeBron historically struggles at times against teams with great rim protectors. Why? Because LeBron loses confidence

regularly in his jumper. And when he does, he just wants the ball, go to the basket, and score. You just don't do that with Rudy Gobert. He's a block shot machine. And so now Bogdanovich is out. This offense was 17th in the NBA. That's with him. They can't win without him. They just don't have the offensive weaponry. And so now it's Clippers, Lakers, in the Western Conference final if the season returns. Denver's good, but depends too much on Yokic. They're still really, really young and haven't gone through the steps necessary to win a championship. So for those suggesting LeBron doesn't want the season to happen, Rongo. It's now Lakers Clippers. This is another roadblock out of the way. And again, Tillman

Fertita owns the Rockets yesterday, was talking to Donald Trump and says it looks like we're going to play when you have opportunities to have a Yankee in the World Series, Dodgers Yankees World Series, or a St. Louis Cardinals Red Sock Yankee World Series, where you have these legacy teams, or you have a chance to have, you know, a USC and an Ohio State in a Rose Bowl. You don't get these very often. You think you'd get them more?

I mean, you think LeBron and Kobe would have played in more championships, right? They were both kind of in their prime. You don't get as many great matchups, Phil Mickelson and Tiger, down the stretch at the Masters. You know, they play together in their prime for 15 years. You'd think, oh, you get that all the time. You don't. So when you get the Lakers with LeBron and the Celtics

look like they'll get to the Eastern Conference finals, you got to push it through. Sneaky big news for the Lakers. Bojan Bogdanovich is out. 20-point a game score. Great three-point shooter for a team that's got a hot and cold, not very good offense. Now it'll be really struggling to score.

Joy with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. The Phillip Rivers only signed a one-year deal with the Colts this off season, but head coach Frank Reich is hoping that the Rivers will decide to stick around for longer than that. He said, I really believe it's Phillips intent to play multiple years. I'm very optimistic it will be a multiple-year thing.

He has a one-year deal for $25 million. Chargers had a 5 and 11 record last year, 66%. percent completion rates, 20 interceptions, 23 touchdowns. 38 entering his 17th season. Yeah, what do you do when you like the GM, you like the coach, you think they've got good young personnel, but you feel like at a position that's getting increasingly athletic, you have the least athletic player in the league. And that's what he is right now.

I mean, nothing against him, but he outside of not counting kickers, that's the knock on Philip is you can't roll the pocket out. You can't do anything athletic. It's just like 1978 football. I mean, he did not have a great year last year. No, and I mean, the team is stacked. I mean, this should work for him because the offensive line's excellent. But, you know, I was talking to a friend about this the other day, Joy.

These sports all change with rules. The NBA used to be more physical because the rules allowed you to bang in the guys. And now the league's a shooters league. You know, the NFL used to be defense wins championships we grew up on. Not really. Not really. Kansas City wins championships. It used to be pocket quarterbacks win.

The rules are changing it now. You want your quarterback at minimum to be Dak Prescott or Jimmy Garoppel. At minimum, they can move a little. But I mean, he's 38 years old. That's not an unfair ask to be a little bit mobile. I don't even think that if you're 35 or 32, that's an unfair ask. The league is just getting younger. There's guys coming in who can play right away who are winning MVP.

and their second season in the league. That's incredible. Multiple, multiple quarterbacks. And it's not that I, you know, you need Philip Rivers to be able to run, you know, the length of the football field. But the idea that he's going to be there for multiple years is, I mean, I thought he was going to retire this year. I was like actually very surprised.

Even though I do think it's a good fit for him, I guess my bigger question for them is, what's their plan moving forward? Like, is it really Philip Rivers? No, it's Jacob Eason, if he's as good as they think. That's really the plan. So then I guess you may want him to be there for more than one year. I just think there's a ceiling on it. I just, I feel like the team that he left, the Chargers has a ceiling,

and the team that he came to, because of Philip, the Colts has a ceiling. Doesn't mean they're not playoff teams, but I don't think they're Super Bowl teams. But that's not your goals, just to make the playoffs. Mostly no. So like Jacksonville. Right. So the bills should have an easier road than the AFC East now that Tom Brady has left the division. And on the Zach Gelb show on CBS Sports Radio,

former Bill's quarterback Jim Kelly thinks the pressure is on Buffalo to win it this year. I mean, if they don't and something's wrong, Tom Brady is not there to block you anymore. So that, to me, is huge. I think, you know, Tom, of course, is getting older, but he still can play. And I tried to talk them, you know, into retirement

like two or three years ago, but just wouldn't listen to me. I don't know why. But now that Brady's not in it, I definitely do think that the bills are the team to beat. Thank you, Jim. Thank you for having some perspective. Well, they have the best roster. On the bills.

We know they have the best. We think they have the best coach, and we know they have the best roster. And we know they absolutely have the best defense by far. Well, I mean, Belichick is still there. Oh, you're right. You're right. He's the best coach. But you would say he's the second best coach right now.

Ryan Flores and Adam Gays are still unproven. Although I feel better about Flores than I do about Adam Gage. They have a really good roster. They're bringing everyone back. They should be the team to beat. This conversation about the Patriots is nonsense. They've made the playoffs two of the last, what, three years. Like Buffalo's real now.

Buffalo's a real team of the real coach and real players. Although they haven't won the AFCE since 1995. Well, that's a reason for that. Tom Brady. Finally, just like the rest of us, Aaron Rogers enjoyed watching Michael Jordan's last dance, his career during the last dance. And he reminisced about how he was an MJ fan and always looked up to him.

I was fortunate up in 1998. She was sitting at the top row at Arco Arena and watch MJ's last game as a bull in the regular season against the Sacramento Kings. And was always an MJ fan since the early 90s and loved the runs that he was on and always looked up to him. I've gotten to know him a little bit over the years and always had to do our interactions and have a ton of respect for what he accomplished in the game. He's the greatest basketball player of all time. Really, I'd love to debate anybody on that. I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Obviously, we don't have a professional sports team.

and I was a Bulls fan like everyone else, like Aaron, and him talking about going to an MJ game. Like, you know, we didn't get to go to basketball games. When if we traveled, you know what I mean? That's not like an extra expense. You're going to go to a game. So we're in Detroit. My grandparents lived in Detroit.

And somehow my dad got tickets to the Bulls game. Took my little brother. Oh. Who was like too young to even know what was going on. And they're like all the way up in like the peanut gallery, but still I was like, seriously, you're going to take Noah? No, no. And there's no way he remembers going to that game.

It hurts. How old was Noah? I mean, he was, I don't know. He was very young. He was probably like five or six. There's no way you remember it. What's the point? Yeah.

What's that? That's, you got dissed. I did. But honestly, I'm with Aaron. It was such a great experience watching the last dance. Like, it brings you, like, it's more than just a trip down memory lane. It's, it's my, it's my. Much like music, right?

Like, that's a great thing about sports, is that it brings you back to this specific time in your life and those experiences that you were having when you were watching that. Yeah, yeah. Like, everyone remembers a certain Super Bowl their team was in and, like, where they watched the game and what was going on. Being on a couch in Las Vegas watching Sun's Bulls with at the time like a girlfriend.

And it was like a big deal. Yeah. She was a basketball player. And it was like, it was a big deal. Like, it was really excited. We were like all geeked up for it. Yeah, I think that's something else the documentary brought.

Like, it brought everyone back to like those moments. Isn't that why you listen to like 70s and 80s music? Yeah, it triggers you into like Mario Speedwagon. I get emotional. Well, I don't know about that.

That's funny. Joy Taney with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. You know, it is, it is funny. Jerry Krause

is getting all. sorts of heat, you know, Jerry Krause has passed away. And there's been this whole thing where Scotty Pippen, it's not fair how they treated him. And my takeaway is, no, I think Scotty was, you know, the documentary said he was a great player, sometimes immature. That's totally Scotty. Great player, not a great leader. And people are banging, you know, Jerry Krause.

People say he's the villain in it. You know, the reason, you know, when somebody passes, you shouldn't say, you know, mean things. They can't defend himself. The reason I think it's okay to be critical. of Jerry Krause is, he was antagonistic toward Michael. He was antagonistic toward Phil Jackson. So Jerry Reinsdorf

yesterday was talking about Jerry Krause. And he tells a story where Phil Jackson at one point had moved on to the Lakers and they were playing the sons and Reinsdorf apparently has a home there. And he met Reinsdorf for lunch. And Phil Jackson said can we mend fences? I just want to meet Jerry Krause.

It's really silly. Like, we're growing men now. Let's get along. And then Ryan's Dorf, the owner of the Bulls went to Jerry and said, hey, Phil wants to mend it. And Krause was like, nope. No, I'm not going to mend fences. Okay, then you're a grudge holder and then you're petty. And like, that's not anybody's problem.

That is a you problem. If you're petty and a grudge holder, it's a you problem. there is a difference between being passive aggressive. Sometimes, you know, Aaron Rogers, I say he can be a little passive aggressive, but that's his personality. Some people don't like conflict. That's okay. There's a big difference between being passive aggressive and not always confronting people. Maybe you're physically intimidated, age intimidated, power intimidated.

If I confront this person, what will they do? If I confront MJ, what will he do? There's a big difference between that and antagonizing people. And when you go to Phil Jackson before a season and you say, you're not going to come back if you're 82 and oh. What? You just didn't, that's something you should never, ever, ever say. So that's why I don't feel a ton of pity for Jerry Krauss.

I'm sorry he's gone. I wish he would be in the documentary if it was possible. But when I watch this documentary, there's a reason he came out as the villain. There's a reason when you watch a movie, it's pretty clear who the villain is. He's the villain. He's the antagonizer. He's doing bad things. Krause made it difficult for an organization.

And part of being a good GM, frankly, is getting along with people. Getting along with a media, getting along with a coach, getting along with the owner. Being a general, I know about 10 GMs in my life on my cell phone. It's a, you got to, you know, get along with lots of people. The media matters. The owner matters. The president matters. Your star matters.

The agents matter. You've got to get along with people. That is a huge component. He knew basketball. He wasn't good with people. Let's bring in Rick Bueker via the Coward Global Satellite Network, brought to you by Mercedes-Benz. The best or nothing.

Let's start with this. Having covered the Warriors close and personal, a lot of people are saying now, you know what, MJ Kevin Durant couldn't play. Just would not work. Personality-wise, I think to myself, maybe they're right. But I also think people like to win,

and Katie and MJ would have won a lot of games together. You know KD, your thoughts about this. Yeah, look, it would have been a dynamic duo, but I really believe that they would not have complimented each other as well as some other stars because of their talents. Certainly Michael could have been a facilitator. Rex Chapman just put something out on Twitter about the time that they played him at Point Guard. He had like 10 consecutive triple doubles in an age where nobody had triple doubles. So Michael certainly was able to do that. But I'm not sure that KD could have handled the intensity of Michael Jordan, the demands of Michael Jordan.

That would have been the big question. Now, there's always the matter of if a guy comes into the league with a guy and he's conditioned for it right from the beginning and molded to it, could it work? And that's a possibility. But look, the reason that KD left wasn't just the win. They were winning. He was winning with Golden State. But he was never going to be recognized as the best player on the team. And deserve to be recognized as such and just knew I'm never going to knock Steph off of that perch.

And so I need to go someplace else where I think I'm going to be fully recognized for who I am. at some point if he's playing with Michael, that same situation would have occurred. So maybe, yes, maybe they could have won, but they wouldn't have won indefinitely. And that's just a guess that it would have ever worked because Steph was able, like Steph Curry, Steph Curry could play with Michael, demonstrated that he could move aside for KD. KD ultimately was always bumping up against the idea of that he had to move aside for, for Clay and for Steph and for Draymond. By the way, LeBron yesterday came out immediately after the Dock and said,

I would have loved to have played with MJ. MJ was cooler than LeBron, would have sold more shoes than LeBron, would have been more beloved than LeBron. So it's easy to say. But LeBron would have had to have, I think, taken a little bit of a back seat. Do they work together? It's funny how LeBron shaped this in that I could have been Scottie. He's welcoming himself to be Scotty Pippen. And the people that I've talked to in the league have said, yes, he could have been, he would have been Scotty Pippin on steroids. He wanted to be the facilitator. He didn't want to be the go-to guy at the end of games. He could have filled that role. From a basketball standpoint, I believe that 100%. And if he comes in to the league as,

the number two to Michael Jordan, then maybe we never get there. But at this stage, the way he described Scotty Pippen, you would have thought Scotty Pippen was the driving force of that team. And he's like, yeah, I could be that. And I'm thinking, dude, if that's what it has to be for you to be okay with it, this would not ultimately work. And so we're also in a different era where we've got two guys who,

I mean, Michael Jordan never had to compete with anybody for a, brand. I don't know that that was ever, I think that happened organically for him, that he became the shoe salesman and the logo and the, simply the brand ambassador that he became. But nonetheless, he became that. And nobody else was close. And LeBron came into the league saying, I want to be the first billionaire athlete. So from a basketball standpoint, yes, I think it would have worked. from a personality standpoint and what LeBron's ambitions were, not so sure. I think Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan's mom came across looking great in this. You don't.

See, I think the reason Krause was a villain is he's a petty and a grudge holder. And he antagonized people. And I think the GMs I know in basketball and football are like, listen, man, I got to deal with owners, agents, stars, valets. You've got to be a people person. Jerry wasn't a people person. But you think Phil deserves more heat, I'm told. Phil deserves. Phil is the reason why the dynasty ended. Why they didn't get a chance to come back for a four-peat.

Now, everybody's saying, and I heard you say it, like, you wish that Jerry Krause could have been part of this. The director wishes Jerry Krauss could have been part of this. I did a story on Jerry Krauss. I knew Jerry Krause. It would not have served Jerry Kraus well to be part of this documentary. However bad you think he looks, if he had been interviewed, it would have been worse. I did a story on him about him for ESPN the magazine. Basically, this is after everything had gone down with Tim Floyd.

And he was getting killed for being a terrible GM. And I thought that that was unfair. I thought he deserved credit for putting the talent around Michael that he did. I thought he was right and correct in thinking that they had. run their course and that Phil wasn't the coach to coach a rebuilding situation. I thought he was spot on on all of that. But Jerry Reinsdorf was willing to overrule Jerry Krause and say, Michael, Phil, you guys earned the chance to come back and try one more time. And Phil said, I'm good. It's time. I need a break. So all

he's the one who decided, I'm good. I don't need to coach Michael another year. And Michael was like, I'm not going to play for anybody other than Phil. So that was the end of it. I honestly, I don't believe that if they had come back. In fact, there was a moment on the court after they beat Utah in 98 where Phil is telling Michael, you did it again, you saved us. It was unbelievable. And Michael's saying, I never doubted it. I never doubted we could get it done. And Phil is looking at him like, well, that's amazing. Because the thought bubble is, I sure did.

And I just believe that's where Phil was. Like, couldn't believe that they ultimately got it done in 98. And when they did, he realized we're not going to be able to do this again. I'm ready to go out on top. I don't want to be here dying on the vine with Michael. So let's move on. So that to me was what the documentary clarified was. anybody who's saying that Jerry Reinsdorf and Jerry Krause

were the brought this thing to an end. No, they were willing to continue for one more year in spite of the lockout, in spite of all the uncertainty, in spite of knowing they're not going to be able to replace Scotty and he's probably not staying. They were willing to give it another go. And Phil said, nah, I'm good. Finally, be remiss if I didn't ask you this,

NBA this morning, California's governor went from the most cautious big state governor to far more aggressive in the last 48 hours, obviously facing some business pressure. Yeah, obviously facing the business pressure in the state of California from conservatives and Democrat billionaires. This morning, do you feel like we'll have an NBA season? Oh, without question. I mean, I've been fairly confident all along based on what people in the league were telling me, and I was feeding off of their confidence. I had a few people that were saying the logistics are tougher than you think, and I was listening to that. And I knew that a lot of this had to do with outside influences in terms of the testing,

essentially, was the number one thing. But, you know, we're at this point now where testing is going to be widely available. There's not going to be a PR nightmare if they're testing the players every day. And let's face it, we're in a position now with the NBA and with professional sports. everything is going to start from zero. You'd have to blow up to collect a bargaining agreement, what the NFL would look like. Nothing can end.

You can't not have resumed the NBA season. You can't not have an NFL season unless you're willing to say, we're just starting from scratch on all these because all the TV money goes. And the whole salary cap strike. of those two sports in particular are completely destroyed. So it's a matter of let's find a way to make this work. Let's try to minimize the risk.

But ultimately, if we want our sports to continue as we know them in some form or fashion, we have to get back to playing. And everybody knew it. And that's why when Adam said there's no back end to this, like we'll start next season as late or at least the reports were we'll start next season as late as we have to. I said they're going to find a way to resume this season and get it back in place because if you don't, then it's very difficult to have the structure that you need to play next season. Good stuff. Rick Bueker, good talking to you, bud.

You got it. Good to see in the office again. Yes, we are on the office. It's very, very exciting for us to be honest with you. It feels like a real show. Back at the in-and-out desk. I'm so glad to see that. So are we.

Now, if I could just get somebody to do my makeup and hair and I wouldn't look like a 12-year-old who just rolled out of bed. Coming up next, I made a big mistake, I think. I'll talk about that coming up with the NFL. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the Internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

and nobody's telling you exactly. what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsLice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two. different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out. on The Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Cleaver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office, blue, 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What?

Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Good to have you in. So I saw this story yesterday. 49er general manager was talking about the 49ers losing Joe Staley and then getting Trent Williams. And he said, Joe Staley's great. He's not Trent Williams. Trent Williams,

by the way, was drafted by Mike Shanahan. So Kyle Shanahan knows him well. Trent Williams will walk right in the 49ers, have a really good opening schedule that works to their favor. You know, when it comes to overs and unders, I almost always take the unders because fans, When I bet college football, I'm betting the game. When I bet the NFL, I'm just betting against the public because so many people bet the NFL. I think most beters are suckers. They bet quarterbacks. They bet teams on hot streaks.

They bet what happened last week. They bet favorites. They bet big brands. So in the NFL, I just bet against the public. That's really what I'm doing. I'm looking at the number and betting against the momentum of the public. And usually I take unders because on over unders, fans are always optimistic.

They love their team, and they bet the over. I'm starting to think I made a mistake. There's seven teams in the NFL that bring back a very good team. What does that mean? They won double digits in the regular season last year. Doesn't mean you made the playoffs. I'm not talking about nine and seven made the playoffs.

A very good team that won double digits in the NFL and you return your quarterback, your head coach, and both coordinators. There are seven of those. Three in the AFC. The Ravens, the Chiefs, and the Bills. And there's four in the NFC. The Niners, the Packers, Seattle, and the Saints.

I have seven for seven making the playoffs. But in a lot of them, I've got an over, I got some unders. This may be the year you just take overs on all of them. So 2011, nine years ago, there was a lockout. So you didn't get all the OTAs. You didn't get the practice. You go back and look at that year. That year there was a 15-1 team.

There was three 13-win teams, and there were two 12-win teams. Why? Five of the six teams, Saints, New England, Baltimore, Green Bay Steelers, brought back the coach, brought back the quarterback. So there are just some teams this year. We don't have OTAs. Right now, you can go to the facility if you're rehabbing, but coaches now are only communicating through Zoom. And I think this is going to be a year where we got a bunch of 13 win teams at the top. And I think I know who they are. And we're going to have some 14 win teams. And I've got to be

honest. I don't see Baltimore losing more than one or two games at most. They don't even go to the West Coast. So, and I also think we're going to have some really bad teams because of the opposite. I'll give you Cincinnati, for example. They brought in a bunch of new free agents defensively. They've got a rookie quarterback and a second year head coach and a brutal division. going to be a bad team. Nothing against Joe Burrell. Cincinnati is going to be bad. The New York Giants. Second year quarterback, new head coach who's never been a head coach, new offensive coordinator, new defensive coordinator, and they're counting on a couple of free agents and a couple of draft picks to make a real impact. That's going to be a bad football team. Washington,

new coach, new culture, still a young quarterback who hasn't started a season. Dallas and Philadelphia, they got better players. Washington's not going to be very good. Now, the team that I think is, better than Vegas or Fox Bet think, but my staff basically talked me into this morning's going to be bad. So blame them if my over-under is wrong, Carolina. I love Matt Rule, and I like Teddy Bridgewater. I love Christian McCaffrey. But Matt Rule, the coach of Carolina, again, new coach, new quarterback, new system, new young coordinators. Matt Rule is a guy that comes into a program and he tears it down.

down to the studs. Now, he turns it around in year two, but his first year in Temple, he won two games and his first year at Baylor, he won one. And this division's really good, and Brady's in it, and Breezes in it, and Matt Ryan's in it. The truth is, Carolina's going to be probably bad. I think I was wrong on that. The more why my staff talked me into it this morning, again, I'm going to blame them if anything happens. It's not going to be my fault, but I think they're probably right. I think I'm too high on Carolina. They got too much new stuff in a brutal division. Kyle Long is coming up.

Former Chicago Bears around the corner. It's the herd. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversy. and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context

and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12

and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in front. possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough

because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me Kear games is we have real conversations about healing growth fatherhood pressure and purpose on my my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue. Artitude. Hey, Rhett, Mom, I want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Ah, here we go. Hour 2, all fired up live in Los Angeles. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Kyle Long is young kid, just retired. Generationally, I say young kid, 31 years old, very mature for his age, knows his dad very well.

He's going to come on in a couple minutes. But I was thinking about this, Joy Taylor. We were talking about it this week, is that leagues can change. All they have to do is change the rules. Years ago, the Baltimore Ravens won a Super Bowl because the rules were you could just grab receivers, and now you can't win that way.

Kansas City's going to win Super Bowls. Lamar Jackson's going to win Super Bowls is because it's a quarterback-driven league If the quarterback has the right play designer, it is so crucial. You can't grab receivers. You can't touch them. It's good to be a receiver in the NFL today. The rules favor the offense.

NBA used to be able to hand check, lean on guys, can't. Now what is it? Now it's guards and wing players winning MVP's. Centers don't matter as much. One of the things I love that the NFL, and I'm a big believer in this, and owners in the NFL don't want to hear this. But I have always believed guarantee more money to players. You don't have to give 10-year contracts like baseball,

and you don't have to have as formidable a contract as basketball. But here's my theory on it. If you guarantee more money to players, they'll retire early. Why is that good? Because when they retire at 33 or 32, increasingly you don't have to hit in 7th, 8th, 9th grade football, right? Hitting is happening later, 7-on-7 camps. people are smart enough to realize you shouldn't have

six, seven, eight, nine-year-old kids, 10-year-old kids, 11-year-old kids, 12-year-old kids hitting each other. And so the hitting window in football, which used to be seven years old to play to your 37, is 30 years of hitting. You got broken down players going on TV, you got lawsuits, and you got debilitating injuries. It's bad for humanity, bad for football.

But now, with less hitting, until kids get into high school, if players can retire earlier at 31, 32, just when they start to suffer, like the second, back issue, the fourth knee surgery, that you get more vibrant human beings who can go on, broadcast, be dynamic. And the symbolism is, this sport is okay physically. It's rough. It's tough.

But you don't got guys hobbling around with fingers pointing in nine different directions. And so, you know, as I bring on Kai along via the Coward Global Satellite Network, this is somebody that retired at 31, got all his faculties. So what do you make of my theory, which is guarantee more money to NFL players? I know owners won't like it. But allowing guys like you to make your money, get out at 31, go broadcast, your vibrant, your dynamic to symbolism is great. Am I nuts on this?

I would be remiss if I didn't come on here and say, absolutely, you're right. Guarantee more money to football players. I mean, I'm a guy who dealt with 13, 14 operations. in the course of, you know, 10 years of trying to play this beautiful game that I love so much and appreciate. So to your last point, it is a great game. But the knowledge we've accrued over the years has told us we don't have to start hitting at seven years old. We can play other sports, gain other skills. You look at a guy like Russell Wilson. He's incredibly talented because of his wealth of knowledge in multiple fields of sports. So Russell, kudos to you.

Hopefully kids are taking notes in that department. You know, you retired. Was there a moment or an epiphany or a flight or a practice, Kyle, where you said, this ain't working for me. I got to go. Well, you know, they always say the straw that broke the camels back. There were many straws along the way, and they were mostly physical, sometimes dealing with the emotional side of being injured is tough. But I remember playing in London, and it was half time I wasn't playing well.

We were getting crushed, and I just remember getting the verbal feedback that I wasn't getting it done. and it was really the first time of my career that I was getting that so cut and dry. And that was really the red flag for me. So you flew home from London and you're like, did you call dad and say, Dad, I'm going to have more spare time on my hands? Well, you know, sitting across from Matt and Aggie on a, you know, what seemed like a million hour flight. And me and Matt are buddies, but we didn't say a word.

The guy couldn't look at me. His right guard who has been signed for a lot of money is not blocking anybody, unfortunately. So I knew it was time to start dropping the LBs and start tailoring the suits and maybe get on here with you. Well, this is great. We'd love to have you as a teammate. Let me ask you about this. There's a big hot topic in Chicago. I like Mitch Trubisky, the guy. We don't want to make it personal. Never been a fan. Don't think you can win. I think there's a ceiling with him. I think the organization, I think Matt Nagy's great. I think he's great. I think he's limited. It feels like to me, Nick Foles is without, saying it publicly, the leader in the clubhouse. Am I misreading it? I think that's a wrong judgment. And I know that you have, and I respect the fact that you stood by your judgment of Ms. Trubisky for a long time. But I got to say, as a man who has blocked for him, as a guy who's been in the building with him, Ms. Trubisky has not reached his potential yet. But he's an

extremely hard worker and he is ascending towards that. I think if I'm Mitch, the only thing I can control is cutting it loose. Be a freak. Let your freak flag fly. My dad always told me that and you know what Mitch if you're listening do that thing man go out there compete and do the thing that everybody says he can't do which is kick somebody's you know what and go get that starting position um do you think he beats out foals foals is a many i believe foals the better pure thrower i think uh you know i've spoken to chris about this chris speaks very highly of nick fulls my brother chris long who was uh on the super bowl team with nick speaks very highly of Nick, but, you know, I speak highly of my guy Mitch as well.

And I think if there is a true competition and Mitch is given the opportunity with this shortened off season and his understanding of our team, he's going to be the starter. But you never know when a team brings in a guy like Nick Foles, it speaks less about Mitch and more to how the Bears feel about the quarterback situation. And they went and signed a guy named Nick Foles, a Super Bowl champion. What did you make? Let's talk some division questions. What did you make of the Jordan Love Pick by the Packers?

Well, initially I scratched my head like everybody, but then I thought, well, here's a great player that's emerged on the radar as a quarterback that people around the league or to want. Then the question is, do you want to play against this guy or do you want to have him there when a guy like Aaron Rogers, who maybe gets beat up early or late in the year the last few years, you need a guy like Jordan Love to come in and there's not as much of a drop off there at the quarterback position. And in the NFC North, you're going to need to score points. And I think that's important to have a guy like Jordan Love there. and also you're going to groom him behind one of the greats. Do you believe Aaron today is Aaron four years ago? I think when protected, Aaron Rogers is as good as anybody in football. And I think that he's a rare guy.

Physically, athletically, we've all seen him do special, special things. He's one of a handful of guys that I'll leave the bench to go watch when we're playing against him regardless of the game. And I look forward to seeing how he does this year. Yeah. Let's move to this. No fans in the stand. I think to myself, well, you guys are at practice all the time,

scrimmages, you're probably okay with it. But then I think to myself, in a game that's as physical as football, when you have to get amped up, crowds can really help that. Do you think it would be hard to play without a single fan in the stands? I think for any position other than the offensive line, it would be unwelcome to play in a stadium with no fans. Defense, they love the crowd noise. They love that stuff.

But as an offensive lineman, people ask me, where are the toughest places to play? Seattle, New Orleans, you name it. We can all think of the places that teams dread to go on the road. Now imagine that place without fans. And it's kind of the squeaky toy with no teeth now. It's just football. Guys aren't going to have that mental edge of saying, you know, we're at home. It's the 12th minute.

No, it's 11 on 11, boys. Yeah. By the way, no OTAs, perhaps truncated, camps. The relationship now is just Zoom coaches to players. I was just saying this about 10 minutes ago. I think it's a big edge for the Peyton Breeze, you know, Lamar Harbaugh, Mahomes Reed, Russell Wilson, Carroll, guys have been together for years and years. I don't recall 2011. You played in the NFL for seven years, so I'm not sure if you're there for the lockout. You weren't that. But I do think, boy, what an edge to be a veteran player.

Are we right on that? Well, to have the wherewithal and the understanding of anything can happen, because right now it's like Groundhog Day, you know, we're Bill Murray. We're waking up every day. There's no real answers. What the hell's going on? We hope the season starts. Well, we're giving word that July 26th, whatever the date is, we're going to show up to camp.

If I'm a player, that's in mind. Now, if that bumps back, if I'm a rookie prepping physically, I don't know if I can handle that mentally. You know, you gave me a finish line, coach, and now you're bumping it back. But as a veteran, we've dealt with stuff before, whether it be injuries, home life, taxes. So you've got to deal with this stuff and just deal with it as it comes. And vets, as you say, are going to be the guys who deal with it the best. You live in Chicago.

It's one of the great, great places in America. My wife and I love it. You love it. It's just a fantastic city. And the Michael Jordan documentary probably landed differently in Chicago than other places. What was your, you still live there? you're there right now. What did you make of it? I really enjoyed it because it's a amazing time capsule of a period where social media wasn't a thing. The 24-hour news cycle wasn't what it is today,

but what we get is an idea of how massive Michael Jordan was and how impactful the Bull's success and their run was on the world of sports and the world around sports. So it's been incredible to watch as a kid who was too young to appreciate it in my youth. But you're looking at these clips here, the tongue out, you know, switching hands, left hand. This guy's amazing, MJ, the goat. Yeah, he was not, he was only the best player. It was the coolest player and the most handsome player in the league. And I hit it. Oh, he was a bad boy. Yeah. No, that was it. He just had all. He had the look, the dress, the earring, the smile, the perfect, you know, symmetry, everything about

vanity plates. The vanity plates. You could do an entire segment on Michael Jordan's cars and his vanity plates. Good stuff, Kyle. Good senior. Thank you so much. Thank you, Colin. All right. Great stuff. Kyle Long, dad. Howie Long, obviously. Chris Long, a lot of longs. All good. All smart. Rob Parker this hour is going to yell at me for something. I mean, I see, so here's the thing with Rob. I don't even want to know what he's going to say because I know Rob's going to have strong opinions on the Jordan documentary. Like incredibly strong opinions. And I told my staff, I don't even want to know. Don't give me a heads up on anything he thinks. because he's going to come in and drop hammers, and I'm going to think he's nuts on all of them,

but Rob Parker will be joining us. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live there. them listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast and for more follow timbo slice life 12 and the ticot podcast network on ticot welcome to my new podcast learn the hard way with me your host and your favorite therapist care games and in recognition of mental health awareness month i'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests i'm talking tripp fontaine ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood,

pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out

on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. And, yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys?

This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, right. My mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Red. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Well, fans, NASCAR is back tonight on FS1.

We've got Xfinity Series racing. Then tomorrow night, we finish up at Darlington, the Toyota. to 500, live in primetime and only on FS1. And Sunday, we're back on Fox for the Coca-Cola 600, live from Charlotte. You know, I saw the comments Michael Jordan talking about, you know, the documentary and then LeBron coming out and saying, I would have loved to have played with MJ. I think it sounds great. It wouldn't have worked.

They're just simply too good. It's amazing to me how rarely you get two legends playing at the same. time. And even when you do, Brady and Aaron Rogers, Kobe and LeBron, they don't meet enough in big spots. It's why Bird and Magic is so unique all time. In the 80s, one or both of them was in every finals. Bird was the best shooter in the league at six, nine and a half, and the best passer maybe. Magic was the best point guard. They played in iconic franchises. The league was, to that point, never even close to that popular. It's only been about three instances. where the two legends played at the same time. Brady Manning, Magic Bird, and Wilt and Russell.

Lemieux and Gretzky overlapped a little. Kobe and LeBron overlapped a little. But the truth was, even though for 12 straight years, LeBron or Kobe were in the finals, they never met. It's like Brady and Rogers. They didn't meet. So Bird and Magic was so incredibly special. But I said this earlier. LeBron's not just fighting MJ. He's fighting huge mythology here. Just think about how great Jordan is and his mythology. Very quickly, we never had LeBron Kobe debates. We didn't. It was not on debate shows.

We didn't have LeBron Duncan debates, LeBron Steff debates, LeBron Kauai debates, and the LeBron KD debates lasted for about a summer. LeBron quickly dismissed all those debates. The KD thing lasted for about a summer. LeBron can't get close to Michael. Now, just think about that. Think how great Kobe was, how great KD and Stephar, how great Duncan is. We didn't really do a lot of LeBron is not as good as that player debate.

And we either didn't do it or did it really quickly. So that's how great LeBron is. Jordan hasn't played in 20 years. And the polling, 75% of you think Michael's better. everything. That's not just basketball. You think he's a better passer than LeBron. LeBron isn't fighting MJ, just MJ. He's fighting mythology. And this documentary is another layer. It's like a vest. The Nike campaign was this bubble of invincibility. His looks and glamour is another layer. This documentary is another protective layer. And that's why Michael

Jordan agreed to do it. It's another protective layer assuring Michael is viewed. as the greatest basketball player of all time. Here's Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. By the way, Joy, it did happen in tennis. Tennis is the only time in my life where the three greatest players played all the same time.

And Nadal's the best clay guy. Federer's the best grass. Djokovic is the best hard court player. They've all won over $100 million. Now, that's individual sports, though. but this is the only time of my life, the three best ever, all in their prime mostly at same time. Federer's a little older. Yeah, because I mean, the NFL, I mean, if we're going by positions,

we've had all-time greats at different positions play at the same time, obviously. But at the same position. It just doesn't happen. Yeah. Well, when the NBA returns, the Jazz will be missing a very important player. We got some big news yesterday that Boyan Bogdanovich will undergo risk surgery and will be out for the rest of the season. And he injured his wrist sometime in 2019, but continued to play through the pain. And the decision to have surgery now gives him a chance to fully recover before the 2021 season begins.

That is a very, very big deal for the Utah Jazz. He is a 20 points per game player, 4.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists. He's second on the team and points behind Donovan Mitchell, who's obviously the first. It's a big loss for the Jazz who are currently fourth in the West. Yeah, I mean, it's a very good defensive team. They're like the Celtics not quite as good offensively, and now they just got worse offensively. So to me, they're not a conference final team.

Like, this eliminates them from the Laker-Clipper conversation. Yeah, I mean, if you're going to lose your second highest score, 20 points per game guy, that's... On a limited offense anyway. In a situation where you're not going to have as much time as you would like to get back into the full swing of things. I mean, it makes sense from his perspective, obviously, to have the surgery now.

we don't know what's going on with the season, just have the surgery and be ready for next year. But obviously a huge, huge blow for the jazz there. So Jerry Krauss was largely viewed as the villain of the last dance. Who would be seconds? Let's think about that. Well, Reinsdorf coming in. Reinsdorf should probably hold a lot more of the villain.

A baseball-loving cheap owner, I thought coming in would be the bad guy. That was my guess. And Kraus, maybe Reinsdorf is just so smart that he was able to talk during this and position Krauss as more of a villain. And also, I think him being on it probably helps, like, smooth things over for him a little bit more. I think it does. I can't think of who, like, Rinesdorf should be the second as far as villain goes. I think there's such a big separation between who's next because I guess maybe Rodman a little bit, but everybody loves Rodman. Do they?

I was. I mean, I don't know about love. but like people think it's funny, they think it's crazy, they think it's like zany. I don't think people are really mad at Robin. And Phil's reaction to Rodman and Jordan's reaction to Rodman kind of, kind of simmers down the outrage that you should have for Rodman skipping practice in the middle of the finals to go wrestle with Hulk Hogan. I've never been a fan of Zany guy. Like practical joke guy at work wears me out.

Like I don't like Zany guy. Jerry Glanville wore me out the coach. Tactical jokes past college are... Embarrassing. Kind of... Unless you're, like, at camp, like, training camp or something like that. Like, you feel with the rookies carb with popcorn or something. But the history of zany guy in sports, I'm just like serious guy.

I like guy that's about winning games. That's what I like... No backwards hats. I'm not a backwards hat guy. You know me. I'm not. I'm not into, like, rebel. I'm like, win games.

I think you need those guys. I know, you do. You can't have too many of those guys on one team or things. Rodman wore me out during this. I thought he was selfish and needy. He's, I mean, yeah, he had a little bit of selfishness and neediness to him. You can't argue that. Leaving your team in the middle of the finals to go wrestle is selfish.

There's no other way to put it. But, like, he says he needed that. And for whatever reason, Phil Jackson and Jordan agreed to it. And they also knew how to handle it. Like, they just teased them a little bit, and then they knew he was going to perform. And that's what he always said. I'm going to give you 100% when I'm there. And he played his role.

Anyway, Ray Allen thinks that Jerry Krauss should have been the one to leave the franchise after their sixth title. The Bulls should have been together. They should have won more than six rings. You know, Jerry Krauss should have been fired. There's no way because, you know, when you got a team that's rolling like that, you can't, you can't break up the harmony. You know, it was so selfish of Krause to say this was going to be the last dance. and they won a championship.

Yeah, what team in sports would let go of their coach who just brought you six championships? It's like we all got robbed of further greatness. The conversation about how many more they would have won.

It's really overplayed. It's fun to have, but... Let's be honest. Pippin was leaving, period. Houston was offering $50 million. You gotta know when things are done, too. Like, I'm with you. I don't like watching things unravel

into cheerier. Last year, we watched the Patriots. And all year, we both said the same thing. They look old. They look tired. Like, it was like they were, I mean, Belichick wanted to move off after the Atlanta Super Bowl. Belichick's sense was, we have tapped it. Like, let's get out and they couldn't.

Last year, the Rams Super Bowl, they looked tired. But they beat, they really outcoached an L.A. team. Right. Last year, it was ugly. All year, they were four and five down the stretch. I mean, it was ugly by Patriot standards. Like, I don't, I don't think that, I mean, for another team in the league, the dysfunctional team, that would have been a great season. So I think it was just, it was, it was ugly by the Patriot standards, but I understand what you're saying.

But even still, like, Belichick was still a year or too early on that. They won another Super Bowl after the Atlanta Super Bowl. So I understand the, the idea of moving on before things start to unravel. And I like that the Bulls did that. Like, but I think, again, I kind of agree with Kraus, but Phil Jackson did the right thing. You can't go into a. season at the beginning of the year and say you can have a perfect season and you're still getting fired. Like once you say that it's over, there's certain things in relationships,

there's certain things you say that you cannot take back. Like you know there's the line, there's the line. Once you cross it, there's no coming back. It doesn't matter how great it goes or what you achieve after that. It's just the thing's been said. Right. And you can't take it back. So speaking of the Patriots, many members of the Patriots have come out in support of Jared Sidham. And the latest is fullback Rex Burkhead who said, and made a great impression on the team as a rookie. Very impressed, you know, last year, even though he didn't step out on the field that much,

just seeing his improvement every day on the practice field in meetings. I mean, he's a very humble guy and became in eager to work right away and picked it up so quickly. I think that was what struck me is how quickly he picked up the offense from the get-go. And, you know, he's out there making calls, making adjustments and audibles,

like he's been in the system for a lot. while. And so I'm excited for him. I'm excited for his opportunity. Now, we'll see. Seems like Belichick wanted Brady back, right? Are we being tricked? I'm getting, it's like the 13th person that's told me how great he is. I watched him in college. He never, he had 18 touchdown passes in his big year for Auburn's got NFL receivers, NFL tight ends, NFL alignment, NFL running backs. Auburn's a top 10 program. They have NFL players everywhere. He had 18 touchdown passes. I mean, I just, we just don't know anything about him. And now all of a sudden,

He's great. He's, like, ready to go. He's ready to step in. Tom Brady's shoes and take over the greatest dynasty the football's ever seen. Come on. I mean, like, we protect, we try our best to protect these young draftics that come in, Joe Burrow, to, without, like, keeping this ridiculous amount of expectations on them. Joe Burroughs the next Tom Brady, he's Montana. Like, we've talked so much about it.

Like, just relax. Like, let the kid have his time. Like, let him go out there and play without having these ridiculous expectations on him. And Jared Sidham, I mean, again, like, I don't want to make, I don't want to poke fun. Like, I hope he does great. It just, I feel like I'm, everyone's like I'm a crazy person for being skeptical. I don't even remember when Jarrett Stidham got drafted. I don't remember there being a segment on any show about it.

I don't think anybody talked about it. I remember when Garoppolo got picked. I remember it well. We were all like, oh, this is the highest bills drafted a quarterback. And I remember we talked about what he looked like and how he was a bigger, stronger Tom and then we talked about his preseason games. Then we talked about he got hurt. And then we talked about Bill

wanted to keep him. There was a buzz around Garapolo the day he got drafted. Why? Because when you're not playing in the NFL and you're special, then you hear from practice reports. You hear, you see exhibitions. Right. I remember years ago, Germaine

O'Neill, this is 20 years ago. I covered the Portland Trailblazers. He got drafted at a high school in South Carolina. He didn't play for two years. The buzz about him was, oh, no, he dunks on Rashid. He dunks on Sabonis. You cannot believe. I remember Kobe Bryant. His first year didn't play.

People were like, you got to see this kid at practice. Like, that's the reality of it. Like, you hear, you were hearing about Russell Wilson first in camp with Seattle. I remember that. People saying, this kid's going to win the starting job. You're like, what? It's exhibition? Well, even like, you know, people still have questions about Doc Prescott,

but first preseason game. I was like, oh, like, tore it up. You can play. I don't, I don't know. Again, I hope he does great. I just, I feel like it's okay if I'm a little bit, I'm going to wait and see. I'm a little skeptical. All right. Good stuff.

Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. Like a little more than one hour from now. The Jordan documentary, there's that controversial thing. It's called the flu game. And we find out from Jordan, he got food poisoning, eating a pizza.

And yesterday, Doug Gottlieb said, I don't believe it. I do believe it because I don't believe in conspiracy theories. And Tim Grover said there were these guys that showed up. They delivered a pizza. And I thought to myself, this looks a little sketchy. Jordan ate it according to lore or history and got really sick. We found the guy who delivered the pizza. His name is Craig Fight.

and we're going to have him on next hour. So he delivered the pizza. I want to know where he worked. I want to know what he put on the pizza. I'm not a conspiracy theory person because I don't think anybody can keep a secret. I don't believe any, like the whole JFK thing, nobody can keep a secret. Everything leaks out. And so you're going to tell me with Michael Jordan for 20 years, this thing,

somebody would have talked. I believe Michael Jordan ordered a pizza. Now, the knock is, how did they know it was Michael Jordan? Because my theory on this is, I've been to Salt Lake, I have a place in Utah, I go a lot. Salt Lake City is dead. And if the game was, I don't recall, if it was on a Sunday, it's really quiet. And you have to, most of the places you would have called 10 at night would not have been open in Salt Lake City. They just would not have been open.

So you get down to a handful of pizza places, Michael was hungry, and you end up with one. And from what I hear the story is it was a ways away, and they probably had to talk them in to delivering the pizza out of their zone. You know how pizza places are. You know, we'll deliver within an area code. This was out of the area code. So I'm just going to tell you an hour from now. My guess is what happened is the people on the phone said, listen, we know we're 40 minutes away, but there's nothing open. But we don't deliver there.

Hey, it's Michael Jordan. And the pizza place went, all right, it's Michael Jordan. and they drove because I know where the, I know I think where the pizza place was and where Michael was staying, and I think it was a ways off. It was a long drive. That's why I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. The pizza place said, listen, man, we don't do 45 minute away,

40 mile away deliveries. It's Michael. That's why they showed up all of them. I don't think it's suspicious. I think it's reality. I could be totally wrong. Listen in an hour or so. We'll find out if I'm wrong.

Rob Parker's next to yell at me, scream at me and say things that will tick me off. That's coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search Learn the Hard Way and listen now. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42.

Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. America's ready to get back to work. New economy, going to be difficult.

Smart companies run by NetSuite by Oracle, the world's number one cloud business system. Receive your free guide right now, net suite.com slash her. NetSuite.com slash H-E-R-D. Well, he's part of the odd couple, the fastest growing radio show in America. Sports Talk Radio Show, a Fox Sports contributor, the instigator.

He gets people worked up. Rob Parker actually was an NBA beat writer during the Jordan era. He covered the Jordan shot over Craig Ello, the Pippin Migraine game, Eastern Conference Final against the Pistons. So Rob Parker's been doing this a long, long time. And he joins us now via the Coward Global Satellite Network. All right, let's start with this. Your big takeaway on the 10-part Jordan documentary, your big takeaway is what?

Colin, before it started, Chris Bussar and I talked about this, and I said I thought that Michael Jordan would have way more fans after this thing ended because it put his career in context. There's a lot of millennials, a lot of generation X and Zs or whatever, who only watched the YouTube games. There was no context to it. And when you saw what he went through, what he battled through in order to become a champion

and how people doubted him early on, he didn't flee Chicago. Colin, you notice. Chicago was a terrible sports town when he showed up. The Cubs hadn't won in a hundred years. The Blackhawks were terrible. The Bears were the only good team in that town. They had won a Super Bowl.

But other than that, it was a bad thing. sports town and the bulls were a terrible organization. And Michael, look at what he did to it. He turned it around. He didn't leave after seven years and go, oh, I want to go to New York and play with Patrick Ewan so I can sell more sneakers from New York. He did his own thing, and I think people saw that. They saw the way that he was beat up, going to the paint against the pistons and the Knicks. They saw the way the reporters came after Michael Jordan when some scandals and stuff was out there, man, he did not have an easy ride and he rose above it all to become the greatest player of all time. There are suggestions by LeBron in the last 24 hours that he would play

beautifully with Michael Jordan. What do you make of that? I think that's wishful thinking. I'm just, LeBron, I get it. He wants to get into the conversation. You know why, Colin? He just got crushed. He just got crushed by this documentary. Did you see that ESPN poll where they had 17 categories and Michael won all 17? I mean, some of them, LeBron should have won and he lost those. I don't know. I mean, I don't see those two guys the same or, you know, they're not the same player, but I don't see them playing together.

Michael wants to do his thing. LeBron is ball dominant. He wants the ball, has to have the ball all the time. I don't see it. I think it's easier to say that. I'm not so sure it would work. You know, you covered the pistons. Michael sometimes came off as tough against Isaiah Thomas.

Some said petty. I would think it's somebody who covered Detroit side of things. And you saw Detroit beat Jordan for years. You saw Jordan as completely beatable. I would think you would be not as in awe of Michael. No, I do look at it from a standpoint of it was a point of, it was a progression, you know, like he was starting out. He couldn't get past them and then eventually did.

So I saw his career develop where he couldn't get past him to finally getting there. And that's what I appreciate. The Isaiah stuff and the stuff he has with the Pistons, I'm 30 years later still shocking to me that he still holds that grudge on the Pistons. But they were legitimate champions. They made it a tough road for Michael Jordan. They're the ones who I think made him the player that he wound up being because he had to get bigger, get stronger.

He had to fight through things. It wasn't like a cakewalk. People didn't go, he's the next star, so let's step aside and let Mike take over. It didn't go like that. Even going back to his first All-Star game, Colin, when he had eight points and the freeze-out game, you know, where they didn't want to pass on the ball.

I think the Pistons helped Michael Joy and become the player that he became. Scotty Pippen doesn't like how he's portrayed. What do you make of his portrayal? Scottie Pippen should look in the mirror. All this stuff is true. I get it. There was a lot of bad Scotty in that documentary from a guy who was selfish to wait to get surgery, who signed a terrible contract when his agents told him, don't do it.

a guy who wouldn't go into a game and let his teammates down. So all that stuff, there's nothing that was made up. I understand why, because when you look at it, and I'm sure Scotty, for the first time, seeing it in living color was like, man, that was pretty lame. That was pretty bad. But I don't think they did him any injustice. I thought all the stuff there was real.

What do you make of Michael playing with today's players? People are saying he's too rough. guys are skinny jeans. They get offended by mean tweets. They couldn't play with Michael. What do you make of that? I think that they could play with Michael. I don't believe in that.

I think that his tactics and the way he went about his business wouldn't be accepted today. Colin, things are different. And calling people the H word and the B word and all that kind of stuff, it just wouldn't be tolerated. And Michael would have to adapt the way people have to adapt when things change. But talking about playing, with the guy, all you have to do is look at the Steve Kerr story.

I think that that tells you about Michael Jordan and Michael, you know, making him eventually want to fight Michael Jordan and then being able to pass that guy to ball in the biggest spot. And when you watch that video, and it's incredible video where he's talking to Steve Kerr on the bench, and he's saying, Steve, be ready. They're going to double, be ready, I'm going to give you the ball. You're going to be open.

I mean, this is not like some wise tale. This is, they got the video of it. It's incredible. And that's why I think, look at, if anything, nobody wants to play with LeBron. I mean, Paul George turned them down twice. Kauai Leonard would have had an easy street to come to L.A. to play with A.D. and LeBron with the Lakers, he turned that down. Kyrie Irvin won a championship with LeBron, asked for a trade.

and the only guy who was able to come play with him was like a star, and nobody wanted to come to Cleveland. That's why I went to Miami. And AD, that was an agent thing because he signed with LeBron's agent and whatnot. So in reality, nobody wants to play with LeBron. I don't think that's the case with Michael Jordan, no matter what Channing Fry says. I'm calling him Channing Small Frye because I'm not buying that.

Why do you think people don't want to play with LeBron? I think they understand. You know what? It's this whole thing. LeBron and the minions that he had. They call him the goat, Colin. So if he doesn't win, you become the scapegoat because it's not going to be LeBron's fault. So how do you win?

If they win, it's about LeBron. If they lose, his minions go, well, he don't have anybody. Well, look at his teammates. They're no good. They're old. they're tired. It's always about somebody else. And I think that's why it's not attractive. There's

nothing to gain by playing with LeBron. That's really interesting. I don't think you're necessarily wrong on that. Yeah, no, I don't think you're wrong on that. Jerry Krause is the villain. I think he antagonized people. I don't think you should speak ill of the dead. But I think people criticize Jerry

Kraus when he was living. So I don't think they should have to apologize now that he's not living. And I do think he was antagonizing people. What did you make of him getting you know, crushed in the dock. He was a good general manager, a very good one. There's no doubt about it when you look at some of his moves. But here's the one, Colin, that people can't escape.

When you tell somebody Phil Jackson, whose one-you championships is not coming back, even if he goes 82 and O, you got to wear that. You have to wear that. What general manager in their right mind would X out a coach who's won you championships and tell him no matter. what he does, he's not coming back.

That's the ultimate ego. That's a guy who's not comfortable with what's going on, needs more attention. And that's why I think he gets crushed. Because that quote and that statement alone makes absolutely no sense from a general manager standpoint if you've had success with a guy. And remember, he's the one who handpicked Phil Jackson and brought him along. So he should have been a part of the success. of it and not be so worried about getting, you know, general managers just don't get a lot of,

a lot of accolades and stuff. They just don't. They mostly get it when they do a bad job. It's about the coach. It's about the star player. It's just not about the general manager. 30 seconds to a minute left. Your old school guy, I would imagine you love Michael even more after this documentary. Absolutely. I just, I think you got to see. Michael Jordan, who he is. Yes, he can be petty. Yes, he can be mean-spirited, but the dude gave you his all,

wanted to win at all costs. That's what we're missing. Everybody calling his buddy, buddy, come work out with me. Let's go on vacation together. I'm not saying you can't be somewhat friendly. But on the court, it should be about trying to win. I always say sports has a short menu.

wins and losses. And Michael Jordan won. And that's what it's about. That's what we revel in. That's why he's crushed LeBron and all these polls now. LeBron has six losses in the finals. Michael has zero, zero. And nothing better than perfect.

Rob Parker, part of the odd couple. He doesn't get out much. You basically have been in your, you've been the very good, Rob, really appreciate. So even in my important. I have to wear this. Rob, we appreciate your thoughtfulness. He said he goes out once a day, and I'm not going to tell you where he goes, but he goes and gets a Diet Coke from a little fast food place.

Very safe. Thank you, Rob Parker. He's a real good. Thanks, Colin. Look at that. Very, very mindful and thoughtful, Rob Parker. Whether you are reworking from home or working on the road, you want to hear your music, not your roommates.

15% off Raycons, Wireless. earbuds. 15% off. Go to Raycon. Buyraycon.com slash herd. Byraycon.com slash H-E-R-D. B-J Armstrong. It'll be one of the last times we talk about it. One of the last days of the documentary. Coming up next.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard radio app. Ah, here we go. live in Los Angeles. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1.

It is great to have you in today. BJ Armstrong, now an agent, played with Michael, played against Michael, joining us in 15 minutes. And the guy who delivered the famous pizza to Michael Jordan's room that gave him food poison. His name is Craig Fight. He fights for the right to deliver pizza. We'll be joining us this hour.

Joy Taylor is joining me as well. Now, by the way, a lot of people go on Twitter and social media, Joy, and they have big, strong opinions on COVID-19. I have two opinions in the last three months. One, social distancing matters. Be respectful. Watch out. Two, the sun matters. Florida is not getting hit.

California is not getting hit. And they have widely different variations on restrictions. These apartment complexes that closed pools, what are you doing? People sit 20 feet from each other at pools. Get outside. Sun. How do the hell do you explain Florida? They got people wearing no masks at restaurants.

They have the most intense sun in America. Hawaii has intense sun and Florida. You've lived there. It's not like California. California sun. Like, you get burnt. It's quite hot, yes. The biggest sunburned I ever had in my life was in Florida.

Hour and a half building sand castles with my son. I literally couldn't sleep on my back for about three weeks. So that's all I got to say about this virus. Socially distance. Get outside. Soak it up. Free base vitamin D. Whatever you got to do, get sun.

And I'm lactose intolerant mostly, so I can't drink milk. Get outside. That's it. That's my COVID rant. I, my opinion is I'm not a scientist, so I'm not either. Listen to what they tell me to do and avoid people as much as I can. And I wear masks mostly everywhere. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. One thing I realize as we start hour three about this, about this Jordan documentary, is that we form deep connections with our NBA stars, especially when we talk about greatness. I've never thought it's really a fair fight with Michael Jordan and LeBron. Michael Jordan was coming up. He was Nike's first big shoe star. ESPN, the highlight machine.

Michael was the best highlight machine. It was this convergence of all things. And Michael, who's great, rode the wave. It's impenetrable. Popularity. Ronald Reagan is arguably the most popular president in America. He made mistakes all the time, said things that you wouldn't say, eh, just Teflon, just bounced it off because everybody love Reagan.

If you know, you love your own kids and you'll complain about him, But if the neighbor's kids had the same faults, you'd call them bad kids. Your kids, wow, they're children. Neighbors' kids, those are bad kids. They stole something. Those are bad kids. Your kids, well, they're just kids. You love something, and we love MJ.

And we love our NBA stars. But think about this. Joe Montana, Joe Cool, great-looking, legendary franchise. I mean, the Bulls run a legendary franchise before MJ. Was the goat. Four for four in the Super Bowls. Never through an interception in a Super Bowl. Had teams coming from behind, the most watched Super Bowls.

He was the MVP in 3 of 4. Joe Cool had a nickname, great-looking, legendary franchise. We bailed on Joe Montana the minute Brady won his fifth Super Bowl. We bailed on Joe Montana like a New Year's resolution. Joy came up with that line. We never had a debate. I never did a single segment on my show. show. Joe or Brady, not one. Either to the other network, either to this network. To this day,

I've never done a single Montana Brady segment. Well, well, that's because Tom had more Super Bowls. Tom had only been MVP and half of them. Tom was five for seven. He'd lost two Super Bowls. Don't Joe has tell me it's about Magic Johnson went to a lot more finals than Michael Jordan did. A lot more. Bill Russell won 11. It can't just be numbers, right? Because Russell's got almost double the titles that MJ has. I've never done a Bill Russell segment. You don't count him, so it's not just volume. We bailed on Joe Montana after Brady beat Atlanta.

I don't even believe there was a segment on a debate show arguing it. We just bailed. It's over. Yet LeBron James is going to crush Michael Jordan statistically. He already has in many areas. Michael's beaten a great team in the finals. Michael never did. LeBron is bigger and stronger.

LeBron is one with two franchises. Mike went to a second. It was a disaster. LeBron could win another championship on a third team. But you know what you would say? Even if LeBron ends up winning seven championships, like Brady to Montana, winning more in sheer number. You know what you'd say?

Well, he had to leave to do it. Yeah, I mean, I had to bounce around and go play with great players to do it. Why? Why did we bail on Joe Montana? Joe Montana like Jordan was perfect. Joe Montana. Hey, Michael didn't get to the most finals. Magic got to more. A lot more.

Nine. 30% more. You never gave him a shot. Bill Russell's got double the titles. You wouldn't consider arguing he's better than MJ. But the minute Brady had one more Super Bowl than Joe, we didn't even give it a debate segment. Why?

It's the power of Nike. It's the power of shoes. It's the power of glamour. And you saw that in the documentary. I am not saying Michael's the best player. What I'm saying is he and LeBron is not this Grand Canyon Gap. A poll this week

on the 17 comparisons, Michael and LeBron, Michael won all. of them by an average of 70% to 30%. And I just, I noticed this with the death of Kobe Bryant. It gutted the city of Los Angeles. Not just a city with thousands of stars, but a city with a franchise, the Lakers, that have five of the biggest seven stars in league history. Why?

Because you felt like you knew Kobe. You wore Kobe. You connect with Kobe. I think we watch the NFL, but I think we love our NBA stars more. Why? Because of these shoe companies that build these incredible campaigns that let you know them behind the scenes, the access we have to the sports apparel,

you'll wear a Kobe, you'll wear a Steph, you'll wear a Michael. But it's remarkable to me that we didn't give Joe Montana a single segment. We bailed on him, Mr. 4 for 4, Mr. MVP, never threw a pick in a Super Bowl, good-looking, legendary franchise, come from behind wins. You had him, Mike, he was the coolest guy talking about the comedian John Candy in the stands as he's leading you to a win. Didn't get a segment.

Didn't get a segment. Not one. I've never seen it. I've never done it. Russell didn't get a segment ever. Double the MJ titles almost. It shows you the power of MJ is not Michael. LeBron James isn't just fighting.

the game of Michael. He's fighting the mythology. And it's why the first thing after the documentary was done, LeBron came out yesterday and started talking about how he would have played great with MJ. He's covering the brand a little bit. Got into an argument with Brian Winhorst. I did not say that. I said this. I did not say that. LeBron later came out and said, I think my Olympic dream team with Kobe D. Wade and me and our prime would have beaten the dream team. I'm not knocking LeBron. I'm just saying I think LeBron understands. He's not just chasing Michael. He's chasing a virtual bulletproof mythology that grows every year, even when he's gone for 20, and we're just doing documentaries with old footage.

All right, so I saw this story. One of the things I talk about a lot of this show is sort of evolving and adapting. Don't have opinions based on, you know, yesterday. I mean, I refuse to be loyal to a bad restaurant. If I go to a restaurant back-to-back times and it's bad, I don't care if I went there 20 years. It's not good anymore. So I saw a story yesterday, some video, Big Ben Rothlessberger, is trimming his beard. Everybody's like, Big Ben, Big Ben's laughing.

He's throwing some passes. And, you know, it's nice to see. It's a good guy from the mountains, right? And when I laid out my NFL standings about two weeks ago, the one legendary franchise that everybody thinks is really going to to be good this year and I don't is the Pittsburgh Steelers. I have them at 7 and 9. And I think, I no longer think of the Pittsburgh Steelers as a great organization. To be a great organization, you have to be A at owner, A at GM, A at quarterback, and A at coach. I've told you my feelings about Mike Tomlin. I think he's going to be a great TV analyst.

I think he's a great guy. I think there are moments I like him. But he's kind of sloppy, light on the details. I felt when he faced Belichick, he was completely outcoached. I never feel that when Andy Reed faces Belichick. I didn't feel that way when Doug Peterson faced Belichick. I never felt that way when Tony Dungey faced Belichick. I never feel that way when Pete Carroll faces Belichick. I feel that way when Tomlin faces Belichick.

I also think Big Ben is off an injury, 38 years old, high on the drama, doesn't have a star receiver, offensive line is aging. Does everybody realize about Big Ben? Let's be honest about this. If you take out last year because he played a game and a half, so let's just pretend last year didn't happen. He leads the NFL an interception since 2015. He doesn't work very hard in the offseason.

Russell Wilson does. Andrew Luck did. Carson wins does. Drew Breeze does. Deshawn Watson does. Lamar Jackson does. I don't know if Patrick Mahom does. I don't see him much, but I imagine he does.

Big Ben doesn't. I talk about on this show, don't base an opinion on what happened yesterday. I've never understood the loyalty to sports. You would not go on an airline if you had bad experiences. You would not go to a restaurant if you've had bad experiences. When I look at the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Big Ben story, I have them finishing third in their division. I just don't, and I don't know any clear way to say it.

It's a head coach quarterback league. I don't think they're an A&E. I also don't think they're as well run as Kansas City right now. I don't think they're as well run as Philadelphia in their own state right now. I think there's seven or eight teams in the NFL, including San Francisco, Baltimore, that are just better run. Nothing against them. But when I see the Big Ben video, I'm like, cool.

I still think you're finishing third. The league's evolving. It's adapting. Lots of smart people. Some brilliant young coaches, some quarterbacks that work harder. Big Ben has become more legacy than legend to me. All the good stuff feels like years and years and years ago. BJ Armstrong, former Michael Jordan teammate, joins us next,

and the guy that delivered the pizza to Michael that created the food poisoning. A lot of questions. Hopefully get some answers. He worked at a pizza place. He doesn't. No, I don't want any more mystery. I tend to believe the guy. Was he a jazz fan, a Bulls fan?

We'll find out. You know, from now on, we should just do more interviews with Randos. I really think so. I don't take calls. I think we should do interviews to try and debunk the conspiracy theories. Remember that show Mythbusters? Oh, yeah. That's us.

Remember the one show. We are kind of the Mythbusters of this industry. I mean, listen, I like a good strong, conspiracy theory when it's the appropriate time. You're more prone to that than me. I don't let it consume my life, though. I'm just like, I don't believe that. And then I continue living my life like a normal human.

Well, not normal. But, you know, I don't let it consume my entire existence. Most of them are nonsense. Penny dropped from the Empire State Building will kill somebody. It won't even dent your head. Mythbusters. Like, it's not true. I don't think you should throw stuff off of buildings.

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't throw a big apple or something at somebody's forehead off the empire, you know, off a big building. But the point is, Even when you tell people that my problem with conspiracy theorists, when you prove this and they look at this, they still deny it. So if it's not food poisoning, and I don't think it was the flu, which is why I tend to believe it was food poisoning. I think Michael ate a lot of pizza and pepperoni is kind of a greasy meat and he got sick. He ate too much of it. I just don't think you can be that hungover.

Yeah, that's the earth thing. People said he's hungover. I mean, I couldn't tell you the last time I was hungover. I mean, I get terrible hangovers. But one, if you drink consistently, you can fix a hangover. Go you know what your limit is. Drink a bunch of water. Yeah.

Take to Advil. Like, I've never been that hungover in my life. I don't know how you could have possibly beat. Why would he do that? Yeah, no kidding. Like game six of the NBA finals, I'm going to go drink Bacardi rum all night. It just makes no sense. It makes no sense.

Yeah. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. FS1 and the IHard Radio app. Get your free credit scorecard today. Even if you're not a Discover customer, include your FICA credit score. Go to Discover.com slash credit scorecard.

Limitations apply. BJ Armstrong has a unique relationship with this documentary. First of all, he was part of the first three Pete with Michael Jordan, had private discussions about retirement with Michael Jordan. He is now an agent. So he's representing players. And there's a lot of discussion that could current players play with Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan. I don't know. I think players like winning. I think a lot of these NBA players

take significantly less money because they want to win. And I think if you're playing with Michael, you'd win a bunch. That's always been what's driven players. People think it's money. Baseball players never turn down the money. They'll go, Robinson Kanoa, go from the Yankees to the Mariners for money. NBA guys turn money down all the time. They want to win games. I mean, they want to be playing in June. With that via the Coward Global Satellite Network, BJ Armstrong, he's become one of my favorite guests. Let's start with the, you know, as you represent players, yeah, Michael was tough. Do you think current players, first of all, would Michael adjust to the current landscape?

Would players adjust to him? How do you think they work together today? Well, absolutely. Would you adjust? As the game evolves and evolution is part of life, right? Change is life and life has changed. So would Michael Jordan adjust to the time? today's game and the way the game is played, absolutely. And, you know, he will always figure it out.

I think as you're watching the documentary, that's one thing about him that we always come to understand and always respect about him that he was always going to find a way. So the goals don't change, right? The goal of the game is to win and to try to figure that out. And you are just doing the course of the game. Sometimes you'll have a great game plan and you should have a, to veer away from that game plan because it's not working for whatever the reason may be. So I think that was part of his makeup and anyone who has achieved success understands that you have to change. And sometimes you have to change on the fly and he would fit without question he would have figured that out. You played for the first three-peat team.

Compare them to the second. Where do you think your three-peat team was better and perhaps inferior to the other three-peat team? Well, you know, there was certainly there was two players talking about Michael and Scotty who were on both of those teams. And I think the difference was physically the first repeat. They were physically superior. I mean, Michael Jordan in 91, 92, 93, he could just physically overwhelm, overwhelm you, his opponents, and whoever he was playing. And we were all young. We could extend the game for 94 feet. There was no denying that. And we had the We provided the energy, and obviously we were a team that dedicated to doing the effort or whatever is necessary to win.

So I think physically those teams were probably superior than the next three. But the genius of, you know, especially those two players in particular, Michael, was they were different players. And they adjusted, you know, they reinvented themselves. Michael basically became a, you know, he was a six-six, you know, center at that point of his career in many regards. because most of his touches were below the free throw line. And he figured out how to get the same results, even though physically he wasn't the same dominant player that he once was. He was obviously very dominant still and could do things,

but he wasn't the same athlete that he was in 91, 92, 93. You talked to Michael about retirement in 95. Did you talk to him before he retired or after? Take me to that discussion. I think he retired right after the 93 season, right, going into the 94 season. So he had already been retired as we were talking. And, you know, there was a lot of things going on off the court at that time, Colin. And, you know, you just wanted to be a good friend.

And you want to support your family any way you can. And we had built up a relationship, all of us, where we had shared something that was very, that was going to keep us all connected and winning chance. championships and planning all the time we had spent together. So the big thing was, you know, you just wanted no one, no one on that team. And in this instance, we're talking about Michael, no one to fill alone, that they were going through whatever they were going through in their life alone. And you didn't need to know the details of it. But what you wanted to do is to make sure if they needed an ear or just someone just to talk to or share time with that, you know, we were all there for them.

So for all of us, that was just common. We were going to be there with our friends, our brothers, and try to really be a good friend. And that's all we were trying to do. Watching this documentary, I wonder if the first three Pete, which you were part of, was more joyful. And the last three Pete felt like more of a burden and protecting a legacy. Because I look at some of those your championship teams,

and the kids were young. It's the first big present you get from your parents. And then I watched the last championships and I think, man, these are heavy. You know, until the buzzer sounds, they're heavy. I mean, go back to your championships. You're younger. Did they feel joyful, the ride? Yeah, well, I can tell you the very first championship against the Lakers was just,

I just remember that moment after game five. It was so joyful for all of us because it was the first. We didn't know what to expect. We didn't know how to act. You're overcome with joy. You're overcome with emotion. You're overcome with so many things. So that was great.

And I don't think anything will ever replace the first. But as you're playing and you're, you know, you're accumulating all of these games and all of these battles and all of these intense moments, you know, it wears on you. You know, father time is not going to pass anyone. And certainly as an athlete, you understand that, you know, at some point, you know, the show is going to end. And so you're just fighting, you know, your clock, your internal clock. You're fighting, you know, trying to stay at your peak as long as you possibly can by working out, so forth and so on. And most importantly, you've got to find a way to get through that grind. You know, you've got to play 82 games.

You've got to try to figure out how to win 16 games. and it becomes literally a race against time. So I just think you respond differently because you know at some point it's going to end and you just don't know when it's going to end. And, you know, it just becomes, you know, just an internal struggle. And you do the best you can. And in this instance, they were able to keep that going and figure out how to get six championships out of it. I think Phil Jackson's looked really smart in all this.

What was your relationship like with Phil? Phil was great. And I thought Phil had a great way of breaking up the monotony of the season. He was very unconventional. I think he loved to jar people a little bit. He loved to do things where people would ask, you know, what is really going on here. My favorite word in dealing with Phil was whatever. That was, you know, like whatever was going, like, you know, as I've recovered,

counting the stories and all the things that we did and listening to how he handled Dennis Rodman. And, you know, my kids were like, God, Dad, did Dennis, you think, did he really do that? And then it's like, whatever. I just didn't think twice about anything that would happen in the NBA. So, you know, I think he had a great sense of the way he handled people. I think he understood that everyone, you know, we're all individuals and we're going to bring this to the team. But I think overall, he had a sense of community. And he had a very unusual way of

making you feel connected to the group and the group dynamics. And I think he always respected that. We respect that for anyone who played with them. And you can't argue with results. Finally, it does feel like today, BJ, as an agent in the NBA, more hopeful. We're getting more testing. Testing into now widely available. We're not rat. We're not rationing that. It feels like centralized location makes sense. I feel very optimistic about the NBA today, and I didn't two weeks ago. How do you feel today representing current players?

Well, I think Commissioner Silver and the entire NBA has done an excellent job of informing the players to the best as they can. And really trying to give a sound of advice or a sound of information, that's possible. But the fact remains is we still don't know. There's a lot of uncertainty. I think like everyone would like to return back to some form of their normalcy, if you will, and to becoming normal. But I think as we are gathering more information, as we're beginning to understand the magnitude of what does happen

or what we're currently going through, no one knows. And I think the NBA has always held, first and foremost, the safety of the players. The safety of all, their fans and all of the people, especially in the communities that we all live in, that all of these players play a part of. So I think there is optimism in the air, and we all would like to go back. But at the same time, I think the safety of everyone is at the forefront, and it should remain that way. So we'll see how this plays out. We'll see where it goes. But I don't want to get too far ahead of myself because it's going to, you know, in order for us to get through this, we're going to need everyone to play their.

part everyone to be responsible and be accountable if we're going to get through this and come come through and see what's going on on the other side. By the way, did you get along with Jerry Krauss? Doesn't seem like anybody got along with the late Jerry Krauss. Did you have a relationship with him? Yes, I did. You know, Jerry, Jerry Kraus, he drafted me in 1989. He took a chance on a kid from the University of Iowa. And he drafted me and thought I could, you know, maybe or maybe not, you know, help this team. So, and then after I got done playing, I worked in the front office for five, five or six years as an assistant general manager. So I got along with Jerry Cross, got a chance to understand and work with him as a player, got a chance to work beside him

to see, you know, some of his techniques that he had. And so, yeah, I got along with him, you know, he was fine. Okay, we got one person that got along. I just wanted one. BJ Armstrong. Good talking to you, man. All right, thank you. Whether you're working from home or working on your fitness, you want to hear your music, not your roommates. Order Raycon. Wireless earbuds, 15% off.

Buyraycon.com slash heard. Byraycon.com slash heard. Joy Taylor with a news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, speaking of Jerry Krause, the fallout between Jerry Krause and Phil Jackson is well documented.

in the last dance. And according to Jerry Reinsdorf, Phil tried to make amends with Krause years after he had left the Bulls, but Kraus wasn't interested. Reinsdorff said Phil asked him to be the middleman so the two could bury the hatchet. But Kraus rejected the offer,

and Reinsdorf believes it's because Kraus was too prideful and he couldn't move on. That pride is pride before the fall. It's a naughty little thing, isn't it? It is. We get very prideful. Yeah, Jerry was a lover scorned. was so proud of the fact that he had found Phil and turned him into a brilliant, and he turned out to be a brilliant coach that he felt that when Phil turned on him, he was not going to like Phil again.

Now listen, I'm a very petty person. I'm a grudge holder. You are? I am a chip on the shoulder person. You're a grudge holder? Well, it's not, yes, but not in the way that I feel like it's unhealthy. Like in this situation, if someone that I felt like or I had a grudge with wanted to talk. I'd much prefer to talk. All right.

I'd much prefer to communicate. All right. But like if someone scorns me or if someone underestimates me or talks about it about me, like I just don't forget it. Now, do you get along with any of your ex-boyfriends or anything like that? Mostly, yeah. All right. I mean, I don't, it's not that.

Like, I'm just saying, like, in general, in life. Like, you've had people who have doubted you or fired you or didn't think that you were going to be successful at all or anything like that. You remember those things. Yeah. Competitive people don't. don't forget the people that turn them down. And I think Krauss and Phil Jackson kind of both had that thing.

Like, but Phil reaching out is not a good look for Krauss. So let me ask you, the people who doubted me, if I'm always rooting for them to get run over by a bread truck, is that grudge? Is that grudge? I think that counsels a grudge. Okay, maybe I do hold grudges. I don't know if that's healthy either. I don't wish, I don't wish ill on people.

Oh, I just make it a personal, a personal goal. to, you know, be the greatest to ever walk the earth. You know that every day. Yeah, I must hold some grudges. I must. I think it's a competitive person you have to. Like, we talk about it all the time in sports.

He's a chip on his shoulder. He plays with a chip on his shoulder. That's nothing more than a grudge. I don't, I root to beat people. I don't root for their demise. I root for to beat them. Like, I'm not rooting for somebody with kids to get whacked. But I do root for me to beat them.

Yeah. Okay. Is that a grudge? I think that qualifies as a grudge, but I don't think that's unhealthy. I think that's how, I think that's what motive. I don't know, whatever. Maybe we're just weird. But I do think that a lot, especially in sports, I think that's a thing. Like you got cut or someone fired you or like, you know, in this case, the dynasty kind of disintegrated.

Because Krauss believes he could have this rebuild. And Phil wasn't going to come back after being, after going through an entire year. It's like talking about the last dance and it's over and it's over. And then Rinesdorf comes and says, you know, let's give it one more year. I mean, think about the mentality of that alone. You've played this entire season. You've wrote up this beautiful plan with the last dance and you've had this whole poetic moment at the end of the season,

burning things in the flame. And it's over. And now you want to come back another year. It's too much to reset. So we talked about this a few weeks ago. Mike Tyson released a video working on a boxing combat. Oh, boy.

Some training videos. Well, he might have his next opponent. On Instagram Live, Shannon Briggs announced that he has been talking with Mike Tyson and the two are planning to fight in an exhibition match for charity. I didn't want to watch those two the first time they met. Why do I want to watch it now? I'm going to watch this. Tyson retired in 2005 and he went on an exhibition tour in 2006. He's 53. He's going to be 54 soon. Briggs is 48th and hasn't fought since 2016, but he is on a nine fight winning streak and hasn't officially retired. I don't doubt Mike still has incredible punching power.

The question becomes, is he in shape? When you're old, you can still do things at a high level. You just don't have the ability to do them back-to-back days or three times. Right. I'll be able to do a good segment when I'm 90. A good segment? Oh, I'll do it. I will still be the king of American media.

But I won't be able to do back-to-back segments at 90. Well, right. So that's why I think that this, I mean, it's an exhibition fight for charity, right? So it's probably going to be shorter rounds, not as many rounds. So like you said, maybe there'll be a couple big hits in it. It's just not going to be as long of a fight. I'm still interested in it. The first round will be everything.

I'm really, yes. The first round will be everything. I am going to watch this. Finally, LeBron James continues to build his resume off the basketball court. He and Maverick Carter are set to produce the Netflix film Hustle starring Adam Sandler. So in the film, Sandler will play a basketball scout who tries to resurrect his career by bringing a talented international player to the NBA. Oh, now that kind of stuff interests me. That's not bad at all. Did you see Uncut Gems?

Last night we were almost going to watch Uncut Jams, and I told my wife, it's about sports gambling, and it's supposed to be really intense. I have seen cuts of it. I've seen some of it. Like enough of it where I got, it wears you out. It does wear you out. It's very, you've seen it. It wears out because it's very, it is very intense. It's a great movie, and it has a great ending. So, I mean, I thought it was excellent. But it is. It's an. intense movie. It's about subject matter that everyone isn't comfortable with because it is gambling and it's it's an intense movie. But you told me you

did an amazing job. You told me you watched it so I watched about 45 minutes of it and I had something else going on in my life and I didn't finish it. You got to you have to really watch it. Yeah. It's really intense. It is intense but it's a great movie though. So I'm very interested to see how this is. Yeah. All right. Joy with the news.

Well that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. Yeah, I do that a lot. I watched the movie for 30 minutes last night. I watch a lot of movies and just bail. I get something else happens, phone rings. I'm just done.

I'm not going to get into specifics, but they're just movies I move off of. Do you fall asleep during movies? Are you that person? No, no, the color purple. It's the only time I went to a theater and fell asleep. No, not in the movie theater. I fell asleep.

At home, are you the person that's like, oh, like, let's watch a movie, and then you fall asleep. Yeah, occasionally. Or I just bail on stuff. And sometimes it's not that it's terrible. It's just not engaging enough. I got to tell you about the whole Netflix thing. I'm now watching documentaries.

I thought were boring the first time I watched them. Like, I need sports. I'm watching stuff I didn't like the first time. Like, there's just, I mean, I'm done with Netflix. It's fine, but I, you know, and I think the percentage of stuff that's good on that Netflix is low. Like, you've watched everything. I know. It's a bunch of junk.

There's a lot of junk on there. It's got about an 8% hit rate for me. I tell you, if you told me, Narcos and Mine Hunter, I could do without the channel. Those are the only two things I've ever like been. Wow, they're great. Mine Hunter Narcos. Netflix just did Last Dance. I do what?

Netflix just did Last Dance. It's a partnership. Well, now that was ESPN. I don't count Netflix on that. That's gravy training. They didn't have any of that footage. Making a murder. My bad, that's the third one.

That was good. Take away those three, you could have it. I like sports, politics. That's pretty solid for an entire network. They've been around for 20 years, haven't they? They used to be Blockbuster or something. I mean, they've been around forever. And Netflix,

used to be Blockbuster, I think, or in the same business. They sold videos, and then they, you know, they became you know. They make original content. I just think they've had three shows I like. Stranger Things I watched about five episodes. It was fine. It was... What? Stranger Things was fine?

It's just not real. I don't believe in aliens. I don't believe in sorcerers and aliens. Tranger Things is excellent. I got to talk to the guy who delivered the Jordan Pizza coming up. That's coming up. He's going to join us on the show. I'm not. There's a rando.

I'm going to bring him on and talk to him. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHard radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. All right, welcome back. So there's been a lot of mystery about what happened on this pizza gate. Michael Jordan tells the story. He got food poisoning.

It was not the flu game. It was food poisoning. And a lot of people don't buy it. So I thought, can we find the guy who delivered the pizza? we got lucky and we found him. His name is Craig Fight, and he is working right now, but he's been kind enough to join us

via the Coward Global Satellite Network. So here we go. All right, Craig, I'm going to be the trusted reporter and ask you some probing questions. So let's start with this. Do you remember the night? It was a Wednesday night. Do you remember it well?

I remember being Tuesday night, actually. It was the night before the game. I think they played on Wednesday night, didn't they? And so this was the night before that it happened. Okay. So you worked what city and where? Park City, Utah. And it was at Switch, which it's been all over the place.

And hopefully the company doesn't mind. But it was for Pizza Hut. Okay. And where did Michael, where were the Bulls staying? They were at the Marriott Hotel down at the base of Park City Main Street. It was brand new at the time or relatively new. Now, Craig, that is a 40-minute drive. that would seem to me to be out of your jurisdiction as a pizza place.

Oh, all right. So maybe that's part that's getting out there. That's not correct. Park City, the pizza was in Park City. It was actually across from the high school, which is the pizza that's not there anymore. It's been turned into an instant care or something. But it's roughly about five minutes from the Marriott,

which is at the base of Park City's Main Street right there. So when people are saying that it was. in Salt Lake and that I drove. No, none of that happened. We were five minutes from it. That's why I believe the trainer was saying, hey, we looked all over the place to try and find a place that was open. And that's what they found us because there were us and Dominoes were open. Okay. So now people are saying, I mean, why did all these five pizza guys, do you remember the phone call from, who called you guys at Pizza Hut? So I was not on the phone call. what was happening was the driver had gotten the phone call.

He was taking it. And just to preface it, the bulls when they would order stuff, would actually order a large amount, like 10 pizzas at a time or something along the line. And that would generally happen during the daytime, sometime, because they had been there for about three or four days already, because they'd already played a game there before this game came up. So when the call came at night,

the driver kind of waved at me and pointed down because he knew I was a Bulls fan. He pointed down at it, finished the call, and he says, hey, I think it's the Bulls, over to the Marriott. And, you know, I think it's the Bulls. So he goes, I don't know who it was. We didn't know what was a player or anything along those lines, but that's what was happening.

Okay, so then you make a pizza and you make a pepperoni pizza. Thin and crispy. Thin crust. Yes. Was the pepperoni good, moist, fresh, or what? Yes, it was funny. I happened to make the joke. I was like, I need to take care of this.

Because, you know, and joke in manner, mind you, I was, said, I got to make this pizza. I don't trust any of you guys. You're all a jazz fan. You all do something to this pizza. So I went ahead and made the pizza. So you made a delicious pizza, thin crust. Then you went over by yourself? No, I had a driver, which I keep telling everybody, God forgive me.

I cannot remember who the driver is. And hopefully he'll see this or whatever. he'd be willing to come forward. But I can't remember the individual I was with. But we went ahead and I had him take me over because it was my first delivery. So it's not abnormal, if you will, to have two people go to a delivery at once just to watch the, you know, to learn the process. But let's be honest, we went hoping that obviously you're going over to the barrier. I'd hope you meet a bulls or beat some of the bowls or whatever was going to happen.

Oh, I totally get that. So then you deliver it. And then Michael, you hear get sick. What was your reaction? Well, it was it was insinuated that he got sick. And in fact, right when they announced it in the beginning, I want to say it was Ahmad Rashad or whatever, but they announced that he had flu-like symptoms or whatever

and that he got sick. I actually got a phone call, which I can't remember the details of the phone call. I know it was from someone at work. They were just, they were giving me a hard time about, you know, thank you me. Hey, way to go. Way to try and get Michael Six so the Jazz can win. Great job.

And so I remember that part. But I was like, oh, no way. I didn't do that. No way. In fact, I even geeked out and watched the pizza being made to make sure it was, it didn't puff up or make a bad pizza. You know, I wanted to help the Bulls there, not, you know, lose it for them or make them sick. Yeah, you're a Bulls fan, right? Correct.

Well, I was a Bulls fan. I was a Michael Jordan fan. I wasn't a big fan of what Jerry Krause did. So I stopped being a Bulls fan when Kraus got rid of all the Bulls. But I had worked because I lived in Utah. I had worked for the Jazz before. So the jazz, I'd always watch me. It was fun. My wife's a big jazz fan. So I've always been kind of a jazz fan. But I was a Michael Jordan fan, especially since, you know, when I first watched or saw Michael Jordan, I remember when he had the shot and beat the Hoyas in the championship. I was 12, I think what had happened. I think what had happened.

I think, I was 12, I think what had happened. And I've always paid attention to him since then. Craig, Craig, fight. Okay, it sounds real to me. Michael, I don't know. I don't know what the heck happened. I don't think he got a hangover. First of all, Craig, thank you. Go back to work. You're very kind for doing this. Thank you for the accurate portrayal of what happened. Thank you. Real quick, just so everybody knows, just because it's information, to people want to know where I come from. My son's name is Alexander Jordan Fight.

So Jordan, I'm a big Jordan fan, and no, I don't have any issues with him with all this stuff going on. But I appreciate the chance, Colin, to come on and talk. Craig Fight. I am a fan of Craig Fight, and I know now where he works, and I'm going to go and buy something from where he works. How's that? Craig Fight, thank you very much.

Listen, Mike, he, Sometimes I don't have an answer. The mystery continues. See you tomorrow. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like

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