The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Kawhi Leonard, Lakers, and LeBron James

Episode Date: July 5, 2019

Filling in for Colin, Doug Gottlieb gives the latest news on Kawhi Leonard and why he should NOT sign with the Los Angeles Lakers. He also explains why LeBron James is not the best player in the league and perhaps not even the best player on the Lakers; especially if Kawhi Leonard signs with the Purple and Gold. Guests include Chris Broussard, Ric Bucher, Jim Jackson, and Stu Holden. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be making this part of your day. Colin says on a daily basis, I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd, who has promised to join us if Kauai Leonard makes a decision. Somewhere, the mountains, Utah, Colin Cowherd, who is backpacked. through the wild wilderness of the Wasatch Valley.

We'll join us via a cell phone if Kauai decides. And we wait. And there are three very unique and interesting possibilities here, right? Remain in Toronto, which by some people's estimation will change how we view trading players who don't want to go to a specific location. And Paul George last year, Kauai Leonard this year. if they both stay at a place that they previously said they had no interest in staying, what does it say about Los Angeles, where both players grew up,

and what does it say about trading a guy to a place he says, thanks, but no thanks, I don't even want to go there. It's just a way station. If he chooses the Clippers, I mean, we could be in an era where Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving choose the seventh most, popular professional sports franchise in in the tri-state area that's what they did the nets are the seventh most popular professional sports franchise in the tri-state area behind the Yankees the Mets the Giants the Jets yes of course behind the Knicks and

behind the New York Rangers and the same could be said for the clippers like the clippers are lovable likable they've built a good culture but if Kauai Leonard chooses the clippers over the 16 banners in the same arena that the clippers occupy its staples that is

they are at best the seventh most popular sports franchise counting USC football, right? Dodger baseball, the Lakers, the Rams. I would even put the chargers. All right.

maybe not the chargers. Chargers are better, just not as beloved. But the point is this, there are three very interesting choices, and none of them look or feel really alike. Of course, the Lakers would be aligning yourself with two fellow superstars, with almost no real culture of winning, been to losing his franchise in the NBA over the last six years. Like, that is stunning. It goes counter to what you think of when you think of,

the Lakers. But that's the decision that Kauai has. I grew up in Southern California. Twice in my life, I made the professional decision to move back home. Now, I was not making the 30 plus million dollars that Kauai will make. So different tax bracket, different lifestyle, different proximity to where I'm going to work, different profession altogether. But I can tell you that everyone does this thing. Why don't you put a pro and a con list together? You do the pros, you do the cons. I actually think that's a highly flawed process because pros and cons,

it makes every pro and every con seem like they're actually equal. And they are not. Like taxes that you're going to pay. They're high in California. They're higher actually in Canada. But that's not really what leads to happiness and enjoying yourself. I don't know how affected he is by weather. Like my wife does not like cold weather.

Does not. But we chose to live in Southern California and we live in one of the beach communities where, you know what, it actually doesn't get hot and she kind of doesn't like it as much because it's like, man, when's it going to get to hot? Like, I don't know. People like to live here because the sea breeze and it never gets hot. Well, that's not what I wanted. Whereas some people like the cool air.

Depends on where you live. Not every pro, not every con equals out to each other. And so let's just say it as we know it and as it's real. I'm Doug Gottliebilling for Colin Cowherd. It's a mistake to go to the Lakers. It's a colossal mistake. And it doesn't mean that if you went to Lakers, they wouldn't win a championship.

It doesn't mean if you went to Lakers, it wouldn't help his brand tying to one of the most powerful brands in sports. It doesn't mean I'm cheering against the Lakers or cheering for any other team. I'm just telling you that sports people, basketball people, adults will tell you it's a mistake. Unless there is something pulling you home. Like the first time that I moved home, my dad had his first bout with cancer. And in hindsight, even though it was probably a mistake professionally to move home, I look back in hindsight and I had two years with him that I will never get back.

If that's what's pulling him home, I'd back off. But in terms of playing basketball, when has it ever been fun to go in like, let's just go get the three best players? It's not fun. That's not what you look for. If the idea is, I want to win, he can win. It was just proven. Granted, a lot of things had to go in their favor.

Like, to people who think that the Toronto model is the model for the future, like look, yeah, I guess it is if you can promise that the better team on the other side of the bracket is going to lose half of their roster due to injury, sure. But the point is this. You know you're going to win. They've established a culture of winning over the past half decade that you help put them over the top. You know how they're going to treat you. You know how much time you're going to get off.

And oh yeah, by the way, you can still have your offseason life in Los Angeles while you have kind of your professional life. in Toronto. Heck, I'd make the case that the clippers are the better fit. You can still get Southern California. You still get a quality culture of winning and of guys that are playing together and playing the right way, and you get to have the ball. If you think that it's going to work out with LeBron James,

you might be right. Proof is in the pudding. He did go to eight finals in a row. But how enjoyable an experience was it really for Chris Bosch to be the third wheel? or for Dwayne Wade to be the second wheel, or for Kyrie Irving, who could not wait to get out from the shadow of LeBron James. If you're chasing brand recognition

because you're not getting it in San Antonio or in Toronto, maybe you should tell your uncle, hey, dude, I don't talk, I don't speak. It's kind of hard to be a spokesperson when you don't spoke, right? Maybe you have a new balance deal because it's just kind of hard to pitch a product and a guy that doesn't really sell any product because he doesn't want to sell himself.

His sale is, I'm the best player. You figure out the rest. I'm not Canadian. I'm very realistic with the fact that as much as they love basketball, they're going to always love hockey more. I get it's a foreign country. I get it's not a place that he chose. But I can tell you that moving back home to move back home is the most cliche thing ever. And oh yeah, by the way, there's a reason that there's another cliche statement. You can't go home again. You come back home, you're like, man, I'm going to reconnect with people. If you weren't connected with people since you left,

there's probably a reason. And it's not distance. It's definitely not expense. If he was a guy that was so connected and wanted to be interwoven in the community that he grew up in, well, then he would be connected and interwoven in the community. he grew up in.

He would be on Facebook on the MLK high school reunion page. That's what he would do. I'm not telling you that Southern California isn't a great place, and I can't imagine what it would be like to be worth $100 million.

You can live where you hear every morning. And you can kind of melt into a community where, yeah, you're a star, but you ain't the biggest star. The idea that people are going to track him down and TMZ him, not really. But from a professional basketball perspective, you never want to be a part of that circus. There is no established culture.

You have no idea about how the coach will coach your team, let alone your other stars or you. You've already been shown by Toronto. They give you the time off. They'll put the team around you. And if it's not working at the trade deadline, they'll go out and make some profound moves. Isn't it enough? I don't know what Kauai Leonard will do. I don't know.

I'm just as interested as all of you are. I have the people I know in the NBA and everyone feels confident in something, L.A., something, Toronto. He's going to stay. He's going to go. I've heard clubs are planning celebrations in Toronto. I've heard very smart people say, no, no, done deal, going to L.A.

I don't know. and it doesn't actually affect me either way. The league probably wants him in L.A., but the league doesn't have a say in this matter. They just don't. But the idea of lining up three guys who all need the basketball, who all play some form of the same position

at different times in their careers and putting them together on one team when you're already on a championship team, like, what are we doing? How do we get to a place in sports where you would ever leave a championship team that gave you 22 nights off in the regular season, built everything around you, celebrated your presence, and then would do anything for you to stay? What are you searching for? What do you need? Everything you have is right there.

And if home is what brings you there, isn't it pretty obvious the better fit is the Clippers? Don't know what he can do. Know what he shouldn't do. he shouldn't go to the Lakers even though they would absolutely be competitive for a championship with him and they may be competitive for a championship without him that's not always the point

the point is not always to win the point sometimes is how you play the game and unless you want to make a dramatic departure from how you've played and how you've evolved as a player oh LeBron's going to play off the basketball LeBron is going to let everybody else

everybody else make plays. When has that happened? Matter of fact, we'll get to that. What it would mean for LeBron, the uncharted territory that LeBron James would be in if Kauai Leonard chose the Lakers.

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This is The Her. Chris Broussard will join us upcoming about 10 minutes or so. We'll get you caught up on all the stories of the day with our top newsman, John Goulet, also the only one available. That upcoming, I'm Doug Gottliebind for Colin. Yeah,

this whole thing is fascinating, you know? I'm not sure if anybody's thought about this. And I know that Nick Wright's going to spit out his coffee as he drinks going back to his palatial estate somewhere in New York City. Look, stats would

tell you that LeBron James was not the problem last year. He was great. 27, 8, and 8. And if you don't actually watch basketball games, again, you simply go by stats. Russell Westbrook was the best player in the league. We average

triple double for the third straight year. So if we want to go by stats, you'd say LeBron was great and Russell was the best. Neither were true. Neither were true. If you want to watched LeBron James.

He tried to fit into a different style at times, and maybe that limited some of his production. But it wasn't a production thing. It wasn't about the number of points he put on the board. It was about the way he moved, or maybe the way he didn't move. It was about his inability to be, well, LeBron, impact the game at both ends

in so many different ways. He just didn't move like he used to. He didn't defend like he used to. He didn't obliterate mismatches offensively the way he used to. Sure, he's become so skilled that he can pick his spots and still make plenty of shots and get plenty of rebounds. But the actual substance of what he did, he was not the same. LeBron James is 35 years old and Father Time is in fact undefeated. And though I'm told he's down 15, 20 pounds, knowing he needs to play lighter and more agile at this point in his

his career. He's gone through this before. He's done the off-season, you know, uh, Jenny Craig program for basketball players where he's going to trim down and slim down. But at the end of the day, he's 35 years old. His contemporaries, the guys he came into the NBA with are mostly retired. Sure, Carmelo is still posting videos one on none dominating in a New York City health club, but between the toxicity of having him on your team or just his inability to play the other end of the floor. He's not in the NBA currently. Dwayne Wade has retired. Kind of Chris Bosch is retired.

Granted, that was because of blood clots, but at this point in his career, he probably would have been working his way towards retirement. That doesn't mean that LeBron needs to retire. It just means that a reasonable person can say he's on the downside of the peak of his career. Kauai Leonard is at the peak of his powers. It's a two-time finals MVP. he is, by my estimation, the best player in the game, because Kevin Durant's out with injury,

we don't know what he'll look like when he gets back. Age-wise, style-wise, skill-wise, confidence-wise, Quy-Lerner's best player in the game. And if we're willing to concede that we have not yet seen the best of Anthony Davis, one, because of some injuries, two, because of some age and some evolution, and three, because the players around him, what if I told you that if Quaii Leonard chooses the Lakers, LeBron's actually the third best player in his own team.

And look, we can all say, well, that's perfect for LeBron, because he's always liked to get everybody else involved. He's even said, and I love this statement, that he celebrates more when others have success on his team than when he has success. But ask yourself, when was the last time LeBron James wasn't the best player on his own team? When was that?

When was that moment? It wasn't high school. was an AAU. I could make the case that a couple times on Team USA, Kevin Durant was actually the better player, the better score, but if LeBron

was not 1A, he was a 1B. Outside of that, from the moment he arrived in Cleveland, the second he stepped out in the court in Cleveland, he was the best player. To Miami, where he joined Dwayne Wade, and let it be known, he was the best player. When he came back to Cleveland, he was the best player.

When he went to L.A., he was the best player. So a guy who's had the lead in every play he's ever been in, somehow now we expect him to take a secondary or even a tertiary role. What happens in movies? Scene stealer. What happens in television shows or radio? What happens in radio shows when you have a, a driver and a reactor, and the guy who's always been the driver's a reactor.

People fight over the mic. People try and make grandiose points. And what happens in sports is, LeBron may want Kauai or Anthony Davis if it all comes together to succeed, but he wants to be the guy that made it happen. And maybe this is unique to basketball. Maybe it's not. I think it kind of is.

The idea that Kauai Leonard may take and make the big shots, but would do so off the hands of a pass of LeBron James, that goes counter to every reality that we've ever seen. Like, we've got to stop and think about ramifications of this. If Kauai goes to the Lakers, LeBron James, based upon where he is age-wise in his career, you could argue with me all you want about, he's the greatest ever, the second greatest ever, whatever.

The third, greatest of fourth, we can argue all that different stuff. I'm not arguing where he has been at the peak of his career, the longevity of how long that peak has lasted. I'm not arguing that with you. I'm not doing the Jordan versus LeBron thing. I'm not doing any of that. What I am saying, and this is really important, is he has never been in a place where he was not the best player.

And he ain't the best player. He can still be great. He can still be a top five, a top 10 guy. He ain't as good as Kauai Leonard. and most people in the NBA think that Anthony Davis is right there and Anthony Davis is going to get better playing with better players around him

and being in the, coming into the prime of his career. That's not where LeBron is. So the idea that we know anything about how he would handle it, how they would handle it, how Frank Vogel, who was not close to the first choice, will handle it.

Could be the most fascinating element of what may be the biggest team and the biggest story of the upcoming NBA season. I'll ask Chris Broussard where LeBron would rank on this potential big three next. But first, let's get to veteran newsman, John Gullet. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So, Doug, one free agent that's actually still available that's any good is Danny Green. He spent the last eight seasons as a teammate with Kauai, 7 in San Antonio, one in Toronto.

he said on his podcast as to where Kauai's going, quote, it would be great to know. His decision seems to be dependent on Kauai. It sounds like if he goes to Toronto, he'll go back to Toronto. If he goes to the Clippers, I don't know. And if he goes to the Lakers, maybe Danny joins him, takes the mid-level, gets $5 million. How long can he realistically wait to figure out where Kauai is going to go? Because there's a financial obligation.

If he goes to the Lakers, Danny Green, to follow him has to lose money. he'll get more than $5 million somewhere else. I think it'll be okay. I'm not saying he's going to go hungry. I'm just... Right. I think he'll be like, listen, Danny, after that pass,

that was a turnover at the end of game six that nearly gave away a championship. That was a, here, please take the championship trophy away. That's how bad they have the lead. He's a good free throw shooter. He has the basketball, and he panic passes a ball, and it ends up going out of bounds.

where Steph Curry misses an open three point shot would have been the game winner. Like, dude, listen, you just sit there, lay in the cut and wait, we'll let you know when you know. Right? I mean, I'm a little sympathetic. It's only June 5th. It's not like we're going on August 25th.

Are we, like LeBron's original decision was, excuse me, July 5th. LeBron's original decision was July 8th. So just pipe down over there. We'll get to you when we need you. When we come to you, shoot a three-point shot, dancing pre-game warm-ups. Right.

Defend your position. So there is a big game tonight in Vegas. Zion Williamson will make his NBA Summer League debut. What makes it even more fun is the Pelicans are playing the Knicks, so he will play his college teammate at Duke, R.J. Barrett. Here was Zion talking about facing Barrett in Summer League. Obviously I is going to be exciting to play against my brother, but, you know, I really can't go into the game thinking of it like that because we're two different positions. So only way we'll be matched up if it is a switch or something, but I think we're both excited.

What are your expectations for what we're going to see out of Zion tonight in his debut? It'll be on national TV. It'll be on the SPN. Yeah. What do you think we're going to see? I mean, you look, some spectacular dunks. I think you'll see some flaws in his shooting from that sort of range. as a guy who's learning to be a better shooter. I think you'll see, I think RJ will play really, really well.

One, they have a better roster. They have more NBA guys than the roster. Two, I think his game does, his current game does fit the NBA. As this roster is comprised, like he's going to be the guy they're going to give him the ball. Like, if you want to lock in on something, R.J. Barrett is more likely to win rookie of the year because of the volume of possessions he will have the basketball with the porch spread out. Signs get me a little bit smaller.

than you expect. I don't think people understand. He's only about six, five and a half, six, six, yeah. I mean, he's thick now. Like, he looks like a football player. Yep. He will look different. But, I mean, kind of the usual Zion Williams and stuff, right?

There'll be a spectacular dunk, a spectacular block shot. He'll post up. They'll do a little bit of everything. I'm not sure how much he'll actually play, though. Like, he may want to play, but this is, it is kind of adding insult to injury to the Knicks. Like, you know, they didn't. get KD, they didn't get Kyrie, they didn't get Kauai.

They chose not take a meeting with Kauai. And now, like, the NBA is going to dangle Zion Williamson. Oh, yeah, by the way, you didn't win the lottery either. They are favored to win the Summer League. So it could be a big summer for the next. Summer League champions. Summer League, Sacramento Kings,

would Summer League a couple times. That's like the Indianapolis Colts when they got to the AFC playoffs and they put a banner up. AFC finalist banner. Yeah, a FNOLESA finalist banner. Some more bad news for New York, potentially. Eli Manning wants to play for as long as he can. In an interview with nola.com, he said, quote,

I'm not rushing into retirement and Peyton's not telling me to rush into it. I still love being around the guys and the teammates and playing this game. I'm going to play it for as long as I think I can hang with these guys. That's a bummer if you're a Giants fan. Why would you want to continue? I understand he gets paid a lot of money to play a game. But why would you want to continue to play at a low level on a team that likely does not make the playoffs.

I don't think he sees it that way. Like, again, we're having a reasonable, rational conversation. Sure. But we're also not a two-time Super Bowl champion in the greatest football family in the history of the sport. Definitely not. So it's hard to our, what is rational to us is not rational to Eli Manning. I think what Dave Gedelman hopes is that he plays well early

and then organically it takes care of itself. You know? I mean, he either gets hit and dinged and he's got to put the kid in, or it just gets so bad that it becomes obvious to Eli and everybody, because they're all gun-shy of it. They all saw what happened to the previous regime. They all signed off on sitting. The problem was they sat him for Gino-Smith.

If they sent him for anybody else on Earth, he probably never gets his job back. But for Gino-Smith, because it was New York, and everybody hated him, then it didn't work. But, like, he was washed up a year ago, year and a half ago. So I, but again, this is a rational conversation and I don't think you have to be rational when you come from that background. You've had that level of success. Yeah. And that's John Guley with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lie News. All right, let's bring in Chris Broussard, Fox Sports One NBA analysts. You can also hear his outstanding radio show. The Odd Cup with Crazy Uncle Rob Parker on Fox Sports Radio. weeknight seven to 10 Eastern time, four to seven Pacific. We have all kinds of percentages. You have said going to Lakers and then you said he had what great meeting yesterday

or two days ago with Toronto. He had a strong meeting with the Raptors. Drake, I don't know if it was all one meeting or if he met with Messiah, Ujiri and his staff and then later met with Drake. Obviously it was connected, but Drake, you know, made a big presentation. I think that may have even been a big part of why he did go back to Toronto, just to respect Drake, obviously respect the franchise. But right now, the last numbers I was given by somebody in the know after the meeting with

the Raptors were 50-50, Raptors and the Lakers. I think, no, look, the Lakers started with an advantage of Kauai wanting to play there. I tweeted a week or so ago that the lake, he had told the Lakers that they're, his to lose. He wanted to go there. So they had an advantage. I think now it's about, I would say, 55, 60% Lakers, 40, 45% Raptors. What does he want? Well, that's the thing. And I've heard you obviously talk about he shouldn't go to the Lakers. I felt the same way. When I was told right before the Anthony Davis trade, maybe a day or two before that, someone told me if the Lakers get Anthony Davis, Kauai, there's a strong chance Kauai is going there.

And I was like, what? Like all year I thought he's going to the Clippers. Maybe he'll stay in Toronto if they win, but I know he doesn't want to be in that city. He wants to be in Southern California. I thought it was always the Clippers. But then beginning to talk to people around this situation and you look at the things he wants, I think he will go to the Lakers and think he should consider what he wants. Number one, he does want to be in Southern California.

And I'm not saying in this order, but being in Southern California. So you got the Lakers and the Clippers. He also know, look at his health situation. Now, there are reports that he may take a short deal with the Raptors. And maybe that's true. But I've been told that is, and this was after the meeting with the Raptors, that he's looking at a long, a four-year deal with the Lakers or five years with the Raptors because he looks at his injury history.

In eight years, he's only played more than 66 games twice. Last year, he had 22 games off for rest and still was banged up in the playoffs. So he's smart to go get the long-term money. And you know this, Doug, it's kind of, it's a big disadvantage for Toronto. But in four years, we talk about the $50 million he could make with the Raptors. That's pretty much all in that fifth year, which if he stays healthy, that fifth year would just be the first year of a new max deal. You understand that.

So take that away. Because of the taxes in Toronto and because he lives in California, that's his residence, he would make more money over the next four years by actually playing for the Lakers, $11 million more. Wait, wait, hold on. Again, I understand it's like a basically 50% tax rate. And I don't know what it is when you're a foreigner living there,

but I'd assume because you're an employee. But don't you get paid? The taxes based upon where the game is played? He would only get taxed in Canada for the games and days he works. Yeah, plus football. And, you know, work days, practice days, whatever. So it wouldn't be the full season, but it would be enough. And this is according to an article that was in Forbes magazine,

that he would make $11 million more over the next four years if he plays for the Lakers or the Clippers. You know, so look, he wants to win. That's all he's known. In San Antonio, he won, in Toronto he won. But he wants to win long term. And as you said, he understands as well. Golden State was more than banged up.

Okay, they were decimated by injuries. They barely got out of the east. It took them seven against Philadelphia, who I think has gotten better. And certainly, Joel NB probably will be better. The best chance for him to keep winning long term is the Lakers, obviously with AD and LeBron and also

arguably the best place for him to stay healthy long term is the Lakers because you don't have the burden of carrying the team night in, night out. That was the knock against the Clippers. That where's your second guy? I understand, but there was no real second guy

in Toronto this year. Right, and he did it. And this was great. And they still had the second best record in the NBA. So if he went to the Clippers and he took his 20 games off, he'd still have a really good record. You still have... Well, the West is a little different, as you know.

It is. I guess the question is, like, are you sacrificing, enjoying the experience and being the guy and playing the way that he has evolved in the playing? Because you and I know, we both played basketball. Like, I don't care what anybody says. It's totally different when you have to play with or without the ball. No question.

Like, you're... Guys are used to playing with the ball. They just, they don't know what to do with themselves. Right. It's like Ricky, Bobby, what do I do with my hands? What do I do with my hands? Like, you have no idea.

And what inevitably happens is they end up just standing around. And they're not nearly as effective. Right. They don't move without the ball. They don't set uproids. But you know this. Kauai in San Antonio knew how to play without the ball. Sure.

It's only recently, before he went to Toronto, but the last couple of years in San Antonio, that he started handling it more, being at least to some degree a point forward at times, you know, handling the ball, making plays. LeBron has told him he met with LeBron solo. He met with LeBron and AD together. They all mapped this out.

LeBron has said, not I'm going to be the point forward like I've always been. I'm going to be the point guard. Which I like. I think I heard you talking about who's the best player. At this point, you would say Kauai is the best player. I would put LeBron ahead of Anthony Davis. But I love LeBron at point. And if he's at point, Kauai and AD should be the first two scoring options.

because LeBron is one of the rare players that can dominate or control a game without scoring a ton of points or trying to. Again, like if I work it out in my mind, it's LeBron working into a Magic Johnson sort of role, right? Easier said than done. I know you're going here. That's the whole thing, right?

In theory, like I liked the theory last year of LeBron James is going to play without the ball, I'm going to move the ball around. But there was a point mid-season last year when LeBron was like, look, you know, second quarter, fourth quarter, you know, he basically did the, you know who I am, I'm Kevin Durant. He did it in the middle of the season. Here's the thing, and you're absolutely right.

Like, the notion that he was going to play off the ball, I liked it too, because I thought that's what he needed to do, but he couldn't. His instincts to have the ball. He's a lot closer, though, instinctively to just playing the point. I mean, he plays the point. He is a point there. He is a point there. So now, one of LeBron's,

challenges with why he's never wanted to play off the ball is trust in the other players. So I think he'll trust that if I just play point, these two are good enough offensively that he's going to get his 20 points just by being out there. But these two are going to be able to carry the low scoring wise offensively.

So look, you're right. He's never done it, but I think he can. We're getting some post-mortem on Kevin Durant. Why he left, where he wanted to go, and how he ended up in Brooklyn. I want to discuss KD as we all wait for Kauai. Chris Bussartz getting hang around. That's upcoming next.

I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of The HARD Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapid.

up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about. All healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior,

and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This mental health awareness month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized. but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land

while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Doug Gottlie, been for calling. This is The Hurd on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports One,

the IHeart Radio app. Chris Broussard continues with us in studio. Odd couple with Rob Parker every evening on Fox Sports Radio, 7 to 10 p.m. Eastern Time. Of course, you see them on all of our shows here on Fox Sports One. So now there's starting to be some post-mortem on the Kevin Durant era in Golden State. One report says that the argument with Draymond Green is the reason that he left. There's other reports to say he didn't love playing for Steve Kerr.

There's other reports that say he couldn't break through because, you know, Steph Curry was always Steph Curry and Steph Curry's married and he's single and they just didn't have any sort of off the court relationship. What do you make of all the post-mortem stories as to why he left? Well, look, the Kerr situation, I don't know anything about whether or not he disliked Steve Kerr. What I do know about is that Kerr's offense was heavy in the moving the ball and passing and Durant could fit that to a degree. But there was also a part of Durant that wanted to go ISO a lot. And we saw that last year in the Houston series. So that, we know there was some friction there.

I don't know about any of the other stuff. How you could not like Steve Kerr is hard to imagine, you know, knowing him. People, you know, he's one of the nicest guys in the league. He's a players coach for sure. As far as the Draymond thing, what I'm told is they got past it to a degree, but they were close before that, hanging out and stuff. They never got back to that level. We're cool.

We've seen, you know, pictures of them talking and walking. It crossed that imaginary line that you just can't take, you can't get back there. And here's the thing, beyond the face value of it, the face value of why that, you know, just taking it as face value, obviously it was bad. He's calling him to B word and all that stuff. But here's the deal. What I do know is that Durant felt that when he went to Golden State. Now, there was nothing to what you said or did. You know, they made little jokes like, by.

Myers that added to this. But there was a feeling Durant got of that the organization felt like we saved you. You know, it wasn't said like that. But that, hey, we saved you. You needed championships. You got them here. And I'm sure

he felt like he saved them. Yes. Which I actually think is accurate. Well, he certainly felt that way. We don't know whether or not it's accurate. And obviously the Warriors can say it's not accurate. We won without you. they think they would have won that second year

if Draymine's not suspended. But yeah, so there's this sense of that, right? Nobody comes out and says it. But there's a sense you're getting, as Kevin Durant, when you're there, that they feel like they saved me. Like they showed me, they got me, made me a winner, got me a championship.

And then Bob Myers jokes about it. And then Draymine flat out says it. That's why that cut so hard. with Durant in addition to just what it was on face value. He strikes me and like look, as you know, I'm the one who said I thought he's been the best player in the league for the last couple years. Right. Right.

It wasn't just like when people started saying. Now, how did you feel when he went there? Were you among those that killed him? No, I got it. I understood because I watched him play one on two or one on three against the warriors at the end of that series. And I'm like, I understood. Well, two on three.

Huh? Two on three. No, but when he got, if you go back and watch. when they're up three games to one, the Warriors basically started not guarding Stephen Adams and Andre Robertson. Right. And they had, so Stephen Adam, so, I mean, so whoever they're guards. So Draymond Green, in addition, Andre Goddala is guarding him,

and then Draymond Green's right at the elbow. And their offense was so unimaginative. I mean, there's not much you can do. I remember getting arguments to people on radio in Oklahoma City. Why don't they have ball movement? Like, okay, move the ball to Stephen Adams, see what happens. Right, right, right. Move the ball to Andre Robertson, see what happens.

So I understood, like, in his mind, he was like, look, if I just get the space and I get LeBron on an island, I'm better than he is. Right. And so that's why he went there. He just strikes me, though, as a guy who, his defense for the social media stuff is, that's how I like to roll. I like to come back at people. Right, right. He strikes me as the guy that can dish it, but can't take it. And when they're busting his, busting his chops or his lower intestines, if you will, they're busting chops.

They're like, yeah, dude, you know, like, you're not a splash, brother. He can't take it. It really bothers him, and he's in his feelings about it. Yeah, and you're right. And that's the thing, because we did something on our show, Rob Park, and I, I said, look, because Durant, that is his defense. Look, I grew up with social media. I'm on social media.

People talk about me. I'm going to go at him. You know, that's why I text Stephen A or DM, whatever it was, when he's on the air. He's DM me when I'm on the air. He's like, you put my name in your mouth, I'm going at you. There's an element of that that's, that's, Gangster. Yeah.

So I'm like, okay, is Kevin Durant sensitive or is he gangster? The problem is the burner accounts. The burner, that's not gangster. Yes. And that shows you're overly sensitive. And then responding to every little thing. Every little, it might be a 12-year-old in his mom's basement, Instagramming or something, and you respond. So that shows the sensitivity.

But Durant, let me say this about Durant and Kauai. Because this is one reason I did not kill Durant. I was on TV with Stephen A. Smith when Durant announced he's going to Golden State. Stephen A was killing him. I didn't because I said, look, in two years when Durant has two championships and at least one finals MVP, he ended up with two, nobody's going to be criticizing him. In fact, they may be praising him as the best player in the world. And lo and behold, you and others think he's the best player in the world.

So for those that would say for Kauai, if you go to the Lakers, oh, you'll get lost, you won't get credit. No. I mean, we started with Durant. Durant went to a more table set situation, if you will, and ended up coming out of it looking like the best player in the world. Kauai could do the same. It's interesting because I've had guys tweet at me that I said a long time ago,

like the only thing missing from LeBron's legacy was multiple championships to be the greatest player ever. And the reason that I don't believe he's the greatest player is because I've watched all of these championships, and they're not all the same. And, you know, like, again, like, the thing about KD wasn't that he won the championships. It wasn't that they won.

It was that he was the best player in the court and that he was better in the second half and guarding LeBron and being guarded by LeBron. It was the context that actually mattered to me. And I would say the same thing about Kauai. I'm not going to make a statement about what it will look like until I actually see it. And Durant, and you know this obviously

haven't played at a high level. I agree with you. Durant was the best player in those final. However, you know it's easier to be that great when you got Steph and Clay and Drayman. You know, the attention that they draw from you. You're going to go to the stat argument. I'm just saying it was easier. He had an easier role than LeBron in those finals.

Okay. Okay. We forget the first year when LeBron had his full slate of players. We'll go inside the mind of Kevin Durant next in the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search heard to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the tri-exam. the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite there. Care Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're freed? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood,

pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior. And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected.

We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be in.

However you may be making this part of your day, thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlie, filling in for Colin Cowherd. If you're listening on Fox Sports Radio, you're watching on Fox Sports One, or of course, listen to us anywhere in the world in the I-Heart Radio app. Thank you so much for making this part of your day. Um, Congress exclusive podcast is tomorrow, right? And I believe he had a conversation, um, with Tom Verduci from MLB on Fox. And really, really interesting.

I'll, I'm going to play it for you upcoming in about 15 minutes. But it does, you know, like if you pay attention to all the baseball, Dodgers are 31 games over 500. 31 game. You're like checking the 31 games over 500. Now, look, some of this water will find its level. They had five consecutive games that were won by the Dodgers and walkoffs. And if you know anything about baseball, generally one-run games have a tendency to even out by the end of the year. And we're more than halfway through the season.

Next week you have the All-Star game from Cleveland, which of course is on Fox. but like do the math you're like they could end up 60 games above 500 that's it's it's craziness but there's there's something interesting to how they're building it and i'll give you a team in the NBA that may actually be able to do the exact same thing that upcoming with all the talk of kawai leonard as we wait wait we wait it should be pointed out that i i i i i I will grant you, Kauai Leonard, now the best player in the NBA. But that's only because we don't know what Kevin Durant's going to be like when he returns. Kevin Durant has led the league in scoring, what, four times over,

he's been a two-time finals MVP. I would think, and maybe I'm being presumptuous, I would think the Warriors would have won a third championship this year had he played. And he was playing at his absolute peak level. It's really interesting. like our memories get very, very short. They're playing the Clippers, and he's not killing the Clippers early on, and the media starts asking him about playing the Clippers

and why he's not just scoring every time. And apparently most in the media, and look, most people think you don't watch regular season, end of season, Golden State Warriors games, but he was basically telling the truth. Hey, last month of the season, he really tried to buy into the system, moving the basketball, he's playing fewer minutes, averaging only 26 points a game. Hey, I'm just going to be one of the guys.

I'm like, well, why don't you just go and score 40? Like, okay, I'm Kevin Durant. And then he did. And it was like charging, it was like charging. Remember the Death Star got charged up? It's going to take a second. And then all of a sudden, just starts obliterating planets and races of people. That's what he was doing.

It was amazing what he was doing in the NBA playoffs. Matter of fact, before he got. hurt against Houston, he was the one guy who they could count on to get a bucket. And there was this discussion about whether or not they were better or without him, you know, because they swept Portland, forgetting that Portland, they were going to sweep Portland whether or not they had them or didn't have them. They had to come from 17 down twice and 18 down to beat Portland the last three games. So look, I think Kevin Randan is the best player, but now he's torn to kill his tendon.

and if you know what he's going to look like. This is a expect the worst hope for the best sort of scenario. I think because of his body type, because he's seven feet tall, because he's not one that puts on weight, he's explosive for a seven-footer, but it's not like he's a tiny guard who's a jet who relies solely on explosiveness. My guess, or maybe my hope would be

that he has as good a chance as anybody to return to near or maybe even better form than before. While that sounds like blasphemy, Kevin Durant's ability to get off his jump shot at any possible angle because of his size and his strength, if you come off of this type of injury, you may lose a bit in explosiveness, but my working theory is you should be a better shooter

because for a good portion of your recovery, all you can do is shoot a basketball. You can't do the explosive movements. but I start to hear this stuff and read this Kendrick Perkins says that Draymond Green spat led to Kevin Durant leaving the Warriors there's been rumors that now it was didn't love playing for Steve Kerr

maybe what Bob Myers said bothered him maybe it was that he really yearned for those college-type atmosphere days like with the Thunder like when he was member of the Thunder if you remember the stories and they were true they'd practice, then they'd work out for hours together, then they go back to his house, which was at a golf course called Galardia. And his mom would cook,

and they'd all sit around and play video games and talk trash and go outside and shoot hoops, and sometimes roll back to the gym and do it again, and then go play games. That's what they did. And now he gets to Golden State, and they're grown-ups. Steph's got a family and kids. Clay goes and does his own thing,

and he and Dreyman. are close, but there's not the sweat equity of having come up together like there is with the Splash Brothers. And the rest of the guys are all grown up with kids, wives, adults, adult type of things, and they're in a big city where you may, one may live in San Francisco, the other may live over the hill, you know, in Lafayette or Orinda. Like that's not, those aren't close to each other. They may look close on a map, but it's not like Oklahoma City where you can live 15 minutes away and get there in 15 minutes. So I think some of this move, is because he misses the camaraderie of everybody being kind of about the same thing,

and it's a yearning for that. I don't know if he gets that, and maybe this year off will help him. There's a book, and I know Colin, I think, was one of the first people to turn me on to Malcolm Gladwell a long time ago. And among Malcolm Gladwell's bestsellers, one is called The Tipping Point. And it's basically a study of when something became an in-thing. right when did a certain type of shoes like have you guys seen these golden goose shoes ghouley are familiar with golden goose shoes okay do yourself a favor and google golden goose shoes

you will feel a lot better about however expensive your last sneaker purchase is when you look at these sneakers and you realize they're like fake worn in fake converse looking pro kead looking shoes that Hollywood types and the guy who sits in this chair I saw him wearing some the other night we went out the other night me him Clay Travis and Todd Furman and I was like dude's wearing Golden Goose shoes

he has gone Hollywood but I wanted like how did the Golden Goose shoe thing become a thing was it one person and then everybody was on Instagram and then everybody was it a Kardashian thing? Is that how it started? The thing was

Kevin Durant leaving and though there is supposedly a tipping point, and maybe it is Draymond Green calling KD the B word and saying, we won without you, we can win if you leave. But the easy guess, and the easy guess is he brought in some baggage because of where he played, how he grew up, what he liked, what he didn't like, how he thought it should be. When he got there, there were some points that were better than he ever thought on the court.

it was easier than it had ever been and there were times when it was harder than it had ever been and uncomfortable and did he love Steve Kerr in the way he coached him? Probably not. Probably because Steve Kerr challenged him to do things differently than he had done it before. Rick Barnes didn't really challenge him.

Scott Brooks didn't really challenge him. Billy Donovan didn't really challenge him. Didn't have the time to challenge him. Didn't have the equity to challenge him yet. Kevin Rand was a superstar. It's really hard. Scott Brooks is a former player, and he was a former assistant

who assumed the job, and they kind of grew up together. Like, it's just different than going to Steve Kerr, who's played for Phil Jackson, who's played for Greg Popovich, who's been a GM in the league, and though Steve Kerr comes across as, man, hi, I love that guy. I'm guessing

that Steve Kerr probably can say some things and challenge you to do things that were a little uncomfortable to him. Do I think he loved every moment of playing for Steve Kerr? No. Matter of fact, most great coaches, you don't love every moment of it at the time. You yearn for it when you leave.

Do I think that he loved the fact that Steph had a family and Steph was kind of the golden boy when he got there? No. But it probably helped KD find himself a little bit. And discover that he did, in fact, like things outside of basketball. He didn't have to hang around his teammates all the time. He may think he wants it back. to the way it used to be.

But dude, once you're in your 30s, like sitting around eating Cheetos and playing video games and you're not hooping, that's a really small class of people you're going to do that with. He may think that he's chasing New York City because if you've ever, one of the stories that Jay Williams put out was, man, he loved the energy of playing at Rucker Park or this other kind of made-up All-Star game when a game at Rucker was canceled. anybody who's ever visited New York's like, God, I love the energy of the city. It's an amazing place. And they do have a greater passion for basketball on a daily basis than they do in Oakland or in L.A.

I mean, look, Clay Thompson was honest when he said that the fans kind of became entitled and showed up late. That's reasonable. If you can afford Warriors tickets and you can afford to live in San Francisco, then you can afford to show up late to a game. It's just different. But just because you want it doesn't mean you know what you're getting. My guess is kind of like the tipping point. It's all these things.

It's not one thing. Draymond didn't chase him away. Steph Curry's family and not being really tight with him off the court didn't chase him away. Steve Kerr and his relationship or lack thereof of the way coach didn't chase him away. Warriors fans loving the Splash Brothers and them having more equity in chase him away. KD's social media misfires didn't chase him away. Dremont Greens, but all of it together, and Dremont's thing was the tipping point. And that's

essentially how we got to where we are. And while I'm fascinated and hopeful that he can return to form, and he's going to a place in Brooklyn that everyone in the sport, in the NBA, you ask people, who has the best culture? They may not be mentioned first, but they will be mentioned, the Brooklyn Nets. But you have two guys who have struggled to fit into other cultures, right?

Like Kyrie's struggle with Boston's culture that was supposedly solid before him and when he wasn't playing. KD. struggled, even though they're winning a couple championships with the Warriors culture. Now they're going to go into a culture of overachievers,

underrated guys. The Spencer Dinwiddies, who got hurt in college and then made it for themselves. themselves in the NBA, a franchise that was left in complete disarray by the previous regime without first round picks and cap hell. They had to take on bad contracts just to somehow stay above water. That was the Brooklyn Nets to now where they're the picture of how you rebuild after a basketball Chernobyl-like trade like they had with the Celtics.

And those two guys are going to fix it and make it better? I don't believe Draymond was personally responsible for KD leaving. I do believe that if you mirror it to the tipping point, which is a book from Malcolm Gladwell, it may have been the point that it tipped, but there were a lot of other factors which pushed it to that direction. All right, coming up next, we have reached that time of year where we look forward to a summer league game.

It might be the most anticipated summer league game. Well, in recent memory, in this year's memory. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source,

the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context,

and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough

because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. A rep, mom, I'm a one. want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, Tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown

and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection.

If you've been searching for, for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole. This podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Sunday, their quest for a record fourth World Cup has all come down to this. Megan Rapino, Alex Morgan and the U.S. women put their legacy on the line against the Netherlands. The FIFA Women's World Cup final coverage begins Sunday at 10 a.m. Eastern on Fox and the Fox Sports.

app. And don't miss the exclusive trailer, debut of Disney's new movie Mulan Sunday on Fox. It's now time for Empowered to Win, sponsored by Disney's Mulan in theaters this March. All right. So I'm looking at the New York Knicks. And I don't agree with what we're hearing out of New York in terms of why they canceled. their visit with Kauai Leonard. I don't know if you guys read this story. It came out about a day ago. And it was that the New York Knicks said, hey, if we make the trip and it's four and a half hours from Vegas to L.A.

Or they just hop on a flight from Vegas to Lle, they had a chance to meet with Kauai Leonard. Kauai would have conducted the interview with his sit-down with the Lakers, whether it's LeBron, and Anthony Davis and Magic Johnson, whoever he met with. Then he met with the Clippers and their presentation. And the Knicks had an opportunity that they passed on.

And what they've said is, look, we didn't think we were going to get him. And so we passed on it because that would have prohibited us from signing free agents, much the way it's prohibited to Lakers from signing some other free agents. I mean, look, I don't know, Wayne Ellington or Kauai Leonard. Like Wayne Lentington couldn't have waited a day. Of course he could have. I would always do, I would always do the sit down.

Always, always, always. It's a big reason that I'm not a proponent of people, even the anti-Trumpers, who won't go and go to the White House for a celebration when they win a championship. If you have a chance to have, even if it's a slight chance to have a one-on-one, even if you don't think you're going to change their mind,

you're never going to get that audience again. And if you're the Knicks, you're never going to get that audience again. Sit down, kick the tires, see how it goes. He could make him tell you no. Pretty woman at the bar, no ring on her finger. You're not married, engaged, or with a woman, like, go up and take a shot.

Never know. You never know. What is the Michael Jordan line? You miss 100%. shot, 100% of the shots you don't take. But we're going to see the Knicks tonight. And you're going to see more Knicks NBA players than you will Pelicans NBA players. R.J. Barrett.

Mitchell Robinson, of course, felt like a steel they got last year. Kevin Knox. Like, I think in the, in the ways to build, I'm not sure New York isn't, in a better spot than they would be had had they gone out and gotten free agents. Maybe if they got Kevin Durant, maybe because he would have sat a year and they would have been bad and these same players would have had a chance to kind of make a name for themselves and grow in terms of confidence. But I actually understand if you're the New York Knicks.

I get it. I go back and look at their last 20 years of history and from Amari Stademeyer to Eddie Curry who had the heart problem. They couldn't insure either of those contracts. And that's one of the things that gave the Knicks the Hebe-Geebies, is you couldn't insure a Kevin Durant contract. Do people know how that works? Like when you have a guaranteed contract,

if you get hurt, the team doesn't pay 100% of the bill. Insurance pays the bill unless it can't be insured. Eddie Curry's couldn't be insured. Mari Stadamier, because of his knee, couldn't be insured. I mean, you go back and look, remember, they just signed Joe Kim Noah a couple years ago. Joe Kim Noah could not play basketball anymore. He was washed up.

He was not the same. And that doesn't mean I think Kevin Durant will be Joe Kim Noah when he returns. But there's a possibility, maybe even a likelihood, that he is never what he was. Being a year older, into his 30s, multiple foot injuries, torn Achilles, tendon. There's a distinct possibility. He does not return to all pro or all pro level status, maybe even all-star level status. Possibility. So look, Stefan Marbury couldn't get along with anybody. You couldn't win with him in the NBA. Carmelo Anthony, you know, he got nervous

over the CBA expiring. They traded away all of their young players to get Carmelo. That didn't work. The Allen Houston contract didn't work. Eddie Curry, obviously because of health issues. Amaris Stottimer and Joe Kim Noah. Like, if I'm them, I understand. I actually understand being hesitant to sign KD to a max contract deal. And so you build organically with draft picks. This is how the Warriors were in fact built. Idiots like me thought, I don't know about Steph Curry.

And some of the same idiots are saying, I don't know. I like Air J. Barrett butt, little stiff in the hips. not a good enough shooter to be kind of a James Harden like. If he was such a winner, why didn't he win when he had the ball in his hands in college? This is the way you build. This is the way you build for a long time. You got guys under rookie control, rookie contracts. And we'll see what this next wave of Knicks looked like tonight.

And I actually think you're going to be more impressed than you would have thought. Because coming into the year, R.J. Barrett was the dude and everybody else was a secondary thought. and he'll get to walk into a situation where he'll be the guy. My fear for R.J. Barrett was if he was playing with a Kevin Durant, he wouldn't get to be the guy, and that's not bringing out the best in RJ. Now, I don't know if he can be good enough when he's the guy. But we'll see. You get a chance to improve, and he'll get a chance to learn underfire on the fly,

starting tonight against the Pelicans and Zion Williamson. Let's get to Rick Buecker is going to join us in a second, but at first year's veteran newsman, John Goulay. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So Andre Iguidala throughout his career has been asked to guard a lot of the best players in the league. He even won an NBA finals MVP for defending LeBron and holding LeBron to 36 points a game in that series.

On CNBC, Iguodala talked about who was the toughest player to defend. He said, quote, LeBron's able to make all his teammates take them to another level in terms of their play. he enhances all teammates like no other player I've seen. LeBron's able to do that and get 30 points, which kind of makes you scared to help. So it's kind of like you're on an island with him. But overall, Kobe Bryant is the hardest I had to guard. I'm sure Kobe agrees with that.

I know you've talked to Kobe before a couple of times. Yes. Do you agree with it? I know you didn't guard these guys. Do you think Kobe was the toughest, or is he maybe buttering up the fan base of the team he might potentially join here? Do you know who understand? And Andre Godala's agent was before his current agent.

He is currently the GM of the Lakers, Rob Polinka. Right, right. And like most people in the sport expect, Andre Goddala get bought out by the Memphis Grizzlies. And then end up with the Lakers, who are run by Rob Polinka. And Rob Polinka's the guy he calls on most for basketball knowledge, Kobe Bryant.

And the guy who he employs for basketball skill is LeBron James. James. Do I think that, does that mean that Andre Godal is not telling the truth from his perspective? No? No? Who would know better than him? Who would know better than him? So I'm not going to question him.

I would say Kevin Durant's got to be a harder matchup. He's not the passer of LeBron, but he's kind of impossible to guard because, remember, what Iguidala was able to do, same thing that Kauai and the Spurs are able to do is make LeBron James take, pull up jump shots, and make him think about it. And sometimes that works because his confidence had gone. I think he's a better shooter now, more confident now. But his confidence used to wax him lane a little. I remember hearing an interview with Kobe where he said Durant was the toughest cover for him

because early on he was fine. But by the end of Kobe's career, he wasn't the same defender. And Durant had become unstoppable. Right. You can't be as physical as you used to be either. And you used to be able to be physical with Durant. You still can summon the playoffs. And the question on him was strength and then the ability to shoot the three.

his health, there is no defending him. That's the thing. He's seven foot tall. Yes. Yeah. I mean, he, there's this hesitation pullup. Like, what are you going to, what do you, you just hope he misses? But a lot of those guys, you kind of hope he misses. The thing about Kobe that was always impressive. You really watched him was he very rarely got an open shot. Like, everything was off a shot fake, fade away.

Like, there was no just clean catch and shoot. Oh, he's open. It's in. And it's interesting. I had a friend with the Celtic. who told me that if you watch Kyrie Irving workout, he never takes an on-balance shot when he's doing his own private workouts.

And he asked him why, and he's like, well, I know I can make wide-open ones. I just never get any wide-open ones. So I practice the ones that I might get in the game, and that's why I can make them from all angles. That's kind of the Kobe Bryant belief. But I have no reason to believe Andre Godal is a liar, but he may be over-inflating

and over-valuing those two Laker connections for a reason. So as you know, speaking of the Lakers, they're going to have a tough time putting together a deep roster now that all the top free agents and role players have already signed with the team. Because of this, some players we all thought were done with the NBA have emerged as potential Lakers. According to ESPN's Jordan Schultz, Monta Ellis and Amari Stadamire are attempting NBA comebacks and have their eyes on the Lakers. the answer to your next question is Amari last played in 1516 and Monta Ellis last played in 1617. I don't know that those two are the answer to the Lakers depth problems,

but are they going to be able to find enough guys that can play? Yeah. They have, well, let's say they... Look, I like Jared Dudley, everybody loves, and I know he's on the show the other day. Yeah. I think Jared Dudley's a great culture and character guy. Sure.

San Diego, dude, but, like, I don't know how much he can play basketball anymore, and that's about at the limit in terms of, like, once you're, when you're done, yeah, hard. But I, Jared Dudley, we talked Igodala, maybe Corver. J.R. Smith will probably be bought out. Like, you're starting to see, you know, you're, you're, you're, Alex Caruso, I think they, they really want back. He's a restricted free agent.

Can I throw on a retired guy? Go. Maybe. Who? Think LeBron can talk D. Wade into playing half a season? De Wade still had a little left and the tank in Miami. The sons are going to play together at Sierra Canyon. Yeah, he'll be out here anyway.

Hey, hey, can you join us in January? Listen, you're in town. What do you, what do you think? You want to come play tonight? It's like a men's league thing. It'd be like a group text. Like, who's in for tonight? Like, ah, my back. I got a recital. I can't make it. It would be funny if, like Carmelo moved out,

the Duane Wade, you got the banana boat crew kind of have sort of together again. Somehow I think they'll cobble it together. The issue is going to be, older dudes get hurt more often. They just do. And injuries derailed that season as much as anything else last year. So I don't know how healthy they'll be.

But I do know from the people I know at the Lakers, if LeBron okays wants you, it's because he thinks you can help them win the playoffs. He's not as concerned with the regular season. And finally, the 2008 Celtics who won a title against the Lakers got together for a reunion dinner this week. Kendrick Perkins was there. He put out the picture on social media and there was Jam Kassel and Paul Pearson, Rayjon Rondo and Kevin Garnett and noticeably absent the third

member of the big three, Ray Allen. Rondo has always held a grudge that he left the Celtics for the heat. Kevin Garnett deleted his number from his phone. He was so upset that he did that. We're now 11 years past their last title and what was it? I mean, eight, nine years since he left them holding a grudge a little too long maybe most players get over stuff like that i don't think most players actually do get over stuff like that to not talk to him yeah i don't think they i don't think they really do like steve young and jo montana are not boys but they weren't boys to start i understand oh okay i mean joe montana is not over the fact that he was sent to kansas city he's still mad at the 40s he because he's like that was my fifth super bowl that that steve young won so he's still so

No, I, like, look, we, we want these people. What, what made Kevin Garnett great is what makes them flawed, right? I mean, he was petulant. He was petty, you know. He played angry. He played angry. And, you know, now he's taking it out his anger on Ray Allen. So, and by the way, Ray Allen was smart to do we did.

I'll say this about. Got another title out of it. We're going to talk about, and he hit arguably the biggest shot, that's arguably the biggest shot in the last 25 years in the NBA. Like since Jordan shot, but even Jordan shot that would have gone to a game seven, like they were done. They were dead in the water and he hits a three. And they come back and win the game and then win in game seven.

But I would argue that that big three, when it came together, was the best fit, best fit of inside, outside, shooting one-on-one and all around. I mean, Garnett was an unbelievable all-around weapon at both ends of the floor. That might be the best fit of any of the big three. Not the best talent, right? But the best fit. Yeah. The most talented might, we'll get to this a little bit later.

It's an interesting list. And that's John Goulet with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. We're waiting on Rick Buecker. I don't see Rick Buecher. Is Rick Buecker writing another article?

recording another podcast. All right, there's, now here he is. He's a Fox Sports One analyst, and we're waiting on him, much like the rest of the world is waiting on Kauai. Leonard is a well-traveled man. You have news to cover. Do you have news to break? Unless you have news to break, you don't have news to cover.

We don't. Well, I don't know if this counts as news. Okay. Been corresponding with a member of the Lakers organization who thinks he's. going to Toronto. So I don't know whether they're clued in. I don't know

whether it's known throughout the organization, but there's let's put it this way. There's not a consensus within the Lakers as far as confidence is concerned that Kauai Leonard's going to wind up in a purple and gold uniform. It is fascinating and this is like, look, it doesn't

work this way anymore in college basketball, but there's a reason that they always try to get you to commit on campus. because the second you go, every visit you have is going to be better than the next. You go, you're like, I love this place. Yeah.

You know, I mean, I remember when I visited Notre Dame, I wasn't a Notre Dame fan growing up. I'd never been to South Bend, Indiana, and I only went because they're playing Michigan and football. And I walk, I never forget, like, fly into Chicago. We all get on a plane, a little private plane that has the Golden Dome on the tail. And we go over the lake, we go around South Bend. They show you the stadium.

You land. You go right to the president's office. At the time, Monk Maloy was the president, and he was a big basketball guy. He knew everybody's name, shook your hand, looked you in the eye, talked to you about basketball. And then you go to the pep rally. And before the Notre Dame Michigan football pep rally, Lou Holtz walks in, he goes, Doug Gottlieb touching high school, you play for anti-ground. You're a great young point.

We need a point guard. Here we join the Biggie's conference. You want a chance to play for John McLeod. He's an NBA coach. This is an unbelievable opportunity. I got to go out there. We're just hopeful we can line up on the center, make sure the quarterback is behind the center, not behind the guard.

But I expect you to sign the University of Notre Dame. It's the greatest university on Earth. And I was like, Lou Hulse knows my name. Yes. Where do I sign? Yeah. Right? So I know that some of you guys, when I say you guys, I'm lumping you in with,

there's like five, six guys that we all trust, right? Insider says, well, you said he was going to Lakers. That might be a little longer, but love a list. But okay. Okay. 10 people, men and women, right? But there's a very good chance. No, I'm saying the list is shorter.

Oh, the list is shorter? Yeah. My bad. There's a couple people you trust. And maybe it did feel like the Lakers after the Lakers visit. Yes. But then he goes to Toronto and he only wants to do, I want to do right, I want to look them in the eye. Right.

They traded for me with no promises. Right. We won a championship. Right. Could it be the old recruiting thing, where the last visit is the most important. important visit. With almost anybody else, I would say yes, but Kauai really is about his own mind. The fact that it is taking as long as it is now suggests, and people around the league have taken as an indicator that he's staying. Because if it was a matter of, I need to hear everybody's

pitch and then make a decision. It really would have been, I'm going back to Toronto. They didn't need to make a tremendous pitch. He's been there for a year. He's won a championship. He knows everything he needs to know about that organization. It would have been more, I'm flying back, I'm going to give them the opportunity to give the last say because I said I would, but I know it's waiting for me in L.A. So this is really a matter of hearing their pitch and then saying, hey, you know what, I've made up my mind,

this is what I'm doing. The fact that he has extended it beyond this is an indicator to people in the league that he is staying in Toronto. The question, there's still a host of questions with the Lakers. People are focused on Anthony Davis and LeBron James. But Frank Vogel and the coaching staff. Not involved in any of these meetings. How is the rest of the roster going to be filled out?

Ah, we'll figure it out. Judy Cito comes in. She's worked on Kobe. Kobe has had both Alex McKechnie and Judy work on him, so he gets a little bit of a sense of what the health thing is. But again, he's got firsthand knowledge with Alex McKechnie. And I keep bringing that name up. He's the director of sports science for the Raptors assistant coach.

But basically he is the personal physician. He's the body guy for Kauai. And I've seen the two of them work together. I've known Alex for years. The trust that I see between those two and for knowing what is important to Kauai at this point, which is I don't want to go through a number. another season where I only play nine games. I want to play.

All right. We're going to continue with this discussion. Plus, I want to get into the Knicks if they actually made the right decision to not offer KD the max. What the Nets will, will that Nets thing work? I think that's fascinating. Will the Nets thing work? And if the Lakers don't get Kauai, will the Anthony Davis thing work? Let's get to all that next.

Rick Bueger, Doug Gottlieb. That's next to The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of The HARD. weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shape my behavior.

And that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection.

If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or where ever you get your podcast. Doug Gottlie, been for calling. This is The Hurt on Fox Sports Radio. Fox Sports One, the IHeart Radio app.

My esteemed colleague from Half Moon Bay, California, Rick, Buker, Rick. Not lately. Buker. Been an L.A. guy. Yeah, I've been, I've been an L.A. guy. I've got to get you down to Haney, get you on a board.

All for it. Okay, Buk. So let's let's get to the Lakers because it is fascinating on how we've kind of glossed over that you're reading, and again, I take your word for it, like you're reading all of these reports, and here they are again, not including Frank Vogel,

or Rob Polinka in the discussions with a potential star player, and they're handcuffed not being able to put a team around LeBron and Anthony Davis because they're waiting on Kauai Leonard. Right. What's the sense of what's going on with the Lakers outside of their pursuit of Kauai Leonard? It's all about Kauai Leonard. I mean, that's the heart of it.

And as Kauai looks at this, I'm sure Uncle Dennis and Kauai are doing their due diligence. There are a lot of questions there in terms of who's running it. I said this from the very beginning. How is it that you can have a guy like Magic Johnson who accuses Rob Polinka, the GM, of stabbing him in the back, does so publicly? Right. But then Magic is going to come out and say, hey, you should go. work with these guys. I get

that he's a Laker for life and he's, you know, beholden to the organization, but still you're asking a guy to go work with someone that you said was a backstabber. You know what it reminds me of? Again, and

this reference now becomes dated Caddyshack. Yeah. When Roddy Dangerfield walks into the pro shop and says, oh, look at this hat. This is the worst looking hat I've ever seen. What do you a free bowl of soup of this hat and he turns around and he sees the judge,

the judge smells, oh, but it looks good on you. Yeah, right. Right. It's like, this is the worst franchise I've ever seen. Oh, but Kauai, it looks good on you. Like, do we, does Kauai think he's the dumbest human being on earth? Like, yeah. Okay, so they don't get Kauai. What does their team look like?

That's where it really gets difficult, because I think there are a lot of guys, the Andra Igwadala types who, if Kauai gets there, they suddenly look at the opportunity. Well, let's go get another ring. If Kauai is not there, then that doesn't have the same appeal. And I think you're going to see those type of veterans disperse. And you'll have a good team.

You could have a competitive team. You now maybe have to up your offer to a Rajan Rondo, who's been offered a minimum to come back and hasn't agreed to that yet. So you're going to have to spend some of that money to get guys that you had otherwise hope would come there on the goodwill of winning a ring. You said to sit down, this was five, seven minutes ago. You said somebody within the Lakers organization you would just talk to thinks he's going to Toronto. Let me just ask you, though, in your basketball opinion, what do you think the best place

for him is? Right now, I would say Toronto, simply because he's familiar with them. They have young players like Pascal Seaccom and Fred Van Vliet, who I would expect are going to get better. He has a familiarity with Nick Nurse and Ville. vice versa. He's worked things out with Kyle Lowry. And just in terms of what he's allowed to do,

I mean, San Antonio, he had to do what we would expect he'd have to do if he goes to the Lakers, which is not everything's run for you. Sometimes you're going to have to play off the ball. And are you really comfortable with that at this point? You know this, Doug. Once you get a taste

of, you get to make all the decisions. What does you get to taste of personal freedom? You get to play. And I get where LeBron has said that he will defer, but the reality is you have Frank Vogel, and I keep mentioning his name, no offense to Frank, but I don't see Frank being able to ride

heard on on LeBron and A.D. and Kauai. It's going to end up being the LeBron show as it always is. Do you, what do you think of the decision that Nix made? And look, some of this is trying to craft a way in which they're like, well, we didn't know about

about his Achilles tendon, but I personally, I kind of buy it. Like they've, they've bought in a bad of goods, for lack of a better term. They bought the Brooklyn Bridge before, right? Amari Stoddimer. No, no, don't worry. His knees is fine.

No, it's not fine. Eddie Curry, don't worry about his heart. Not a problem. It is a problem. Do the Knicks actually make the right decision? Potentially. I mean, there's still a team to be built. There's still the next step to be taken.

But in April, May, before the Achilles injury, they were working under the... assumption for good reason that Kevin Durant was going to be in New York Nick. And they were comfortable with the idea of Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving coming as a package because Kyrie Irving wouldn't be the leader of the team. He wouldn't be the lone star on the team. The Achilles changed everything. And it changed everything in the last week or two prior to free agency.

Think about this. The Achilles injury changed who the change. champion was. And because of who the champion was, it might have changed where Kauai Leonard plays next year. And it changes where Kevin Durant likely plays. And it might, might have changed where either Kemba Walker or Kyrie Irving. Like, that's how big that injury actually, actually was. All right, last thing. Tonight we're going to see RJ Barrett, Zion Williamson. The Knicks have an NBA roster. The Pelicans don't. This is the thing that gets me is that it's being presented.

as RJ versus Zion. Right. It's really going to be Mitchell Robinson versus Zion potentially. And this is what I, it's always amazing to me to watch guys who have played in the NBA, even if they haven't played, even if they're just spent a year in the NBA.

Completely different dudes. And they come back to Summer League and they dominate. Right, right. It's like when you play to college, you go back to high school. Yeah. We go to high school party and you're like, man, it's just a little bit too easy. Rick Bueker from Fox Sports One, all of our shows, and Fox Sports Radio and Bleach Report.

Thanks so much, Buk. Good to be here. I'll tell you why the Lakers should be the third choice for Kauai Leonard. Next in The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. What up?

Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be. and however you may be making as part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb, filling in for Colin Cowherd. Uncle Colin will be back on Monday. What Colin got right, what Colin got wrong, and we'll see where Kauai Leonard goes.

We'll dig in to that in one moment. Listening on the IHeart Radio app on Fox Sports Radio or Fox Sports One, thanks so much for making it as part of your day. You can hit me up on Twitter at Gottlieb Show. My show runs usually following this show on most Fox Sports Radio affiliates from 3 to 6 Eastern Time the Doug Gottlieff show. Don't be afraid to download the all-ball

podcast. Had a great talk with Dan Wojke from the LA Times regarding Kawhide Leonard and with Pat Garrity, assistant GM of the Pistons, some really interesting stuff. One bite I'll play you hopefully later on this hour about where the NBA has gone and if it

will ever go back that upcoming. But we're waiting. Unlike Godot, where Godot never came, we're waiting on Kauai. Kauai will, in fact, at some point, make a decision. And while it feels like forever, let's just be honest. He's on his own schedule. And, you know, if he announced today, it kind of would make a little bit of sense because it's a news dump Friday. Right. Holiday weekend, on a Friday, in the afternoon, go about your business. You know, you feel like you couldn't

leave Canada on July 1st on Canada today and you couldn't leave the United States. States on the 4th July, our day of independence. And so you kind of remove yourself. And you look back historically, a lot of these decisions have been made a little bit later on in July. While we're rushing Kauai, it may seem that way, but the reality is other people rush to make a quick decision. I'm a native.

If I said my hometowns, I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I consider Stillwater, Oklahoma, like an adopted hometown. But the better part of my childhood from the age of 6 to 18 was spent in the city of Orange in Orange County, California. I know Southern California sports. I especially know Southern California hoopsie. And I understand the idea of Kauai Leonard coming back as conquering hero. I get it.

He was at MLK High School in Riverside, California. He was an unsigned senior's Gatorade Play, player of the year, and yet he wasn't a McDonald's All-American. He wasn't offered a scholarship by USC, UCLA, or Cal, the three biggest Pact 12 schools in Stanford obviously either as well. It doesn't diminish what he was able to do at San Diego State. And for a time, San New State was probably the best basketball program in the state of California, but to not be offered a scholarship by the Pact 10, which became the Pact 12. and then to come back in, riding in on a white horse with two finals MVP's,

and an entire city begging you to play for either one of their pro teams, it's a pretty powerful statement, right? To have an overlooked part of Southern California, an overlooked player who got better and better and better and better. And now, I would make the argument is the best player in the NBA. To come back home as conquering hero, it's a pretty cool statement. but by my estimation the Lakers should probably be the third option. You can come back to Southern California and be a clipper and why that doesn't seem cool to those of us who grew up in the area.

Like who chooses the clippers over the Lakers, it's about fit more than anything. Their culture, their style, even the fact that the clippers are kind of under the radar, right? There's no banners. The clippers have no banners in their own arena because there's no banners. You can't hang second round playoff appearance banners. There's no retired numbers. There's no markings of history because there's no good history really to mark. Oh, hey, remember when we drafted Danny Fairier, Danny Manning, and there was the Clipper Curse?

Remember that? Remember we were one of the best teams in the NBA, but Chris Paul got hurt or Blake Griffin got hurt? Remember that? Like, you don't have that. But that shouldn't matter. the team is coached by Doc Rivers, who's one of the few coaches in the NBA that has a championship ring.

It's, you know, run or consulted with by Jerry West. The owner is beloved because, hell, he overpaid by a billion dollars for the team. You know, I got 12. Here's two and a half, even though it's only worth one and a half. Sure. Bye. Right?

I mean, the GM's done a great job. The Scouting Department has done a tremendous job. And by the way, they've had guys like Trent Redden have a chance to leave the Clippers and go be a part of other. And they haven't left. Why? Because everyone's all in on this thing. Patrick Beverly comes back. Shea Gildes Alexander is going to be a star.

Like, they got all these things. I understand it's not the Lakers, but it's a better fit. Look, if you sold me on, can you come back home? home to be a part of the Lakers, normally most guys would say, hell yeah. And then you say you can play with LeBron. Oh, yeah. And you can play with Anthony Davis. Sign me up.

But then you start to like open the hood and you look inside. Like, who? Smoke coming out from under that hood. You know, Magic resigned without telling anybody before their last game so they couldn't have exit interviews. Magic goes on TV twice saying, that the current president is a backstabber. That president is not involved in any of the discussions with Kauai Leonard.

The new head coach was like the third choice. And though he's a good dude and a good coach, no one has any idea how that will actually work with LeBron James since they've never worked together. And it wasn't LeBron James's first, maybe even second choice. They're the only team without an assistant GM. And yet they have to find. a roster, they have to creatively find a roster around these guys?

They only have five players under contract. Whoever's played with LeBron James has received the brunt of the blame when things don't go well and a limited amount of praise when they do go well. And LeBron is selling you on, hey, don't worry, I'll let you take over the team. When that's never actually happened ever in LeBron James's life. I'm not talking about taxes or traffic or anything. of that nature. But you got an organization which

has had infighting. You have a player that's only played one way. You have a limited ability to go and fill out the rest of the roster. And if the question is, can I win the answer in Toronto, and I will grant you, Toronto's not as good

as, I'm like, they wouldn't be the NBA champions if they were in the West or if Golden State got and got hurt, but they are. So can you win? Yeah. Of course you can. You can't. you can do it again, you can run it back, and you'll be in the conversation. When you do it again, I don't know. Can it take time off?

And while you've had people try and convince me that, well, with the Lakers, you can take more time off because they got more star players. There's no other star player with the Raptors. No other star player. And yet he took 22 games off. They finished the second best record in the league, and they had home court advantage in the NBA finals, and they didn't need it to beat the bucks. can you win? Yes. Can you get along with your coach? Yes. Is the organization solid? Yes. Do you know where you're going to work and what the team's going to look like and how you're going to play? Yes. Is it a style that benefits your style? Yes. Are you important? Yes. Is basketball important? Yes. If you're going to make a decision based upon the weather outside.

Okay. a life-changing decision based upon the fact that it's going to be cold in the winter when you spend your time working indoors. Do you stay 41 nights out of the year in the best hotels in the states possible? Okay. Like if that's the basis of your decision, I can't argue with it. Can't. If you're going to argue taxes, well, the taxes are more.

So even though I can sign for one more year and I'll actually make less money, like, okay. But if the question is about can I win, can I be me, do I fit? And oh yeah, by the way, isn't this kind of what the sport has always been about? My team and my guys are better than your team and your guys. I wasn't bothered or ticked off when Kevin Durant left, but I did understand what it looked like. Arguably the best player in the league, joining arguably the best team in the league, making kind of superpowers unite, and it made them almost impossible, barring injury, impossible to beat in a seven-game series.

But that doesn't mean that's what the sport or any sport should be about. And that shouldn't be what Kauai Leonard is looking for by my estimation. He's already proven he can do it on his own. Why does he have to join somebody else? Why does he have to join a culture that is not established? And if he wants to be in Southern California, there's a team that plays in the same arena, that is perfectly built for him and his style of play and lifestyle. I could be wrong, but I look at it and I say,

Lakers aren't a terrible option, but they're not the best option. They're not the second best option. If winning is what it's about and knowing what you're going to get and knowing how you have to play and knowing you have to have the basketball is what it's about, Toronto's the best option. If you want to combine all those things and where you live is more important, then the clippers are the second best option. And if you think his brand has been hurt

based upon playing in San Antonio, playing in Toronto, the only thing that hurts Kauai Leonard's brand is the fact that Kauai Leonard doesn't speak to anybody. No one knows him. He doesn't want people to them, which is fine. But that's a hard sale on Madison Avenue. Kauai Leonard isn't the signature spokesperson for New Balance.

For any other reason, then, nobody knows anything about his personality. If Nike wanted him, they would have kept him. But they probably felt like it was a hard sale. No matter how ridiculously talented at both ends of the floor, he is. He's the best player in the NBA. He has the freedom and ability to choose any city he wants to play in. He can come back home.

I'm not going to sit here and kill him for whatever he decides. But I will state from a basketball perspective, what more could you want them, what either Toronto or the Clippers have provided you? And if you go to the Lakers, dude, you've been recruited. It's been snake oil sales. Because the same guy who's recruiting you in Magic Johnson

is the same guy who just crushed the organization from being dysfunctional, being insular, and being run by a guy that he doesn't personally trust and he called a backstabber. Like, wait, Magic, you're selling me on a thing that you just quit and left. and on a guy who I'm not meeting with, but you said you didn't trust. And look, I think Polinka's being made out to be the bad guy, which he is not.

Magic didn't want to work at a job that is, in fact, a job you have to show up at. I'm not saying that Magic is the good guy. Magic is trying to use this for a personal win. If Kauai doesn't go there, Magic is going to be like, look, I set it up. I gave you the meeting. I did all I could, but they couldn't close. He ends up winning either way. but man that shiny car you look under the hood

and it's got two guys and Kuzma who I like but that doesn't feel like a championship team or championship culture when you're making the pitch of the team and style you're going to play and the team you're going to build strike anybody else that is odd that the head coach and the president of basketball operations

are not included in those meetings All right, coming up next. Jim Jackson will stop by. I'll ask him how Kauai's legacy plays a factor in his decision. That's upcoming next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottliebun, been for Colin. This is the herd.

Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports One, IHeart Radio app. He is the ageless one. He is a league college basketball analyst and NBA analyst on all things Fox Sports. one and only Jim Jackson. He joins us. He covers the big three. He covers the NCAA term. He does it all. What do you think? Like we're sitting here and we're just waiting, waiting, what do you think? I think he stays, but let's back up. How about this from a perspective? If, and I don't know if Kauai's camp looked at it in this way, but if Kauai makes a decision Sunday or Monday, he falls into the same pile with Kevin Durant,

Kyrie Irving, Clay Thompson, and then get a lot of press. But since this thing has been stretched out, all across the media outlets is all about Kauai. So from a marketing perspective, you couldn't have it better because everything leading up to this is all about the Kauai. It's summer of Kauai now, but whereas before, it was all about where's Durant going, you know? So I don't know if his camp kind of played that out

or said this is how we're going to do it. They had to do with the interviews. But strategically, I think, is awesome because all we're talking about is Kauai. What would you do? I want you to put... Yeah. I don't want you to carry his burdens or his bag.

Just you personally, you played in what? Follow different teams? All right. So you're in Toronto. You win a championship. L.A. is home. You got clippers. You got Lakers.

You got Raptors. What would you do? The person I am, I'm a real loyal person. to a fault at times. And if I'm in Toronto and we've won, they've given me everything I've asked for. They proved to me that we can win a championship. The management has proved that they'll do whatever it takes to win.

We have a great staff, a great team. I would stay. I'm in the east. I got a chance to run it again. Yes, teams have gotten better, but so can we. That's me personally. Now, Kauai talked about his desire to play for the Lakers when he was at San Antonio. And so that has some value in regards to what he wants to do.

But for me, sometimes the grass is not always greener on the other side. Plus, Toronto can pay me more. Okay? So unless there's a sign and trade opportunity to go to another team. What if he goes to the Lakers, would it work? Like, I think they'd win. But like, you know how it is in basketball. When you're used to having the ball in your hands and like LeBron can say like,

hey man, you know, eventually it's going to be your team and I'll be the point guard. Like, yeah, but that means LeBron sets everybody up. You know, he doesn't mind you taking the big shot, but he wants to pass you to take the big shot. Whereas that's not how kind of what Kauai has evolved into. Does that actually work together? You know, I'm not for sure because even though LeBron has gotten older, you think about the year he still had, you know, this year. Some career highs in a lot of his categories, statistical categories, okay?

And it's extremely difficult when you're a ball handler or a career. reader like Kauai is. Because one of the big questions, you know, we asked, and I ask myself, could Kauai put a team on his back? We didn't really see it in San Antonio because he didn't have to. And he answered that question that he could. So now you're talking about taking that away to some degree if you go to the Lakers because LeBron is effective with the ball in his hand at the end of the day. Okay? That's, you know, that's the difference. And I don't know, I'm not saying it couldn't work. The three would have to figure things out. because Anthony Davis has to have a ball.

Would you get the same Kauai Leonard that we saw in Toronto? I don't think we would. I think we'll see it in spurts. I also kind of worry, Anthony Davis stands to lose the most, right? Because Anthony Davis runs the risk of becoming Chris Boss. Stay in the corner, will come to you and we need you. Doesn't he?

I think he's a little bit more dynamic. Oh, I think he's a lot more. I think he's a better player than Chris Bosch. Yes, he is. Keep in mind, Chris was a 2010 guy in Toronto. No question. I mean, getting buckets and getting numbers. Right, but he was a lot of.

But he was also the best player in a bad team, whereas Anthony Davis, and look, you cover the NBA for Turner, so you know way better than I do. But I operate on the, like, he's an MVP candidate. No, he is. Top five player in the game, which Bosch was never really in that realm. Yeah, he wasn't. And, you know, things change depending on what the system that Frank Vogel wants to run, I think is very important, too, on how and where Anthony Davis gets those touches.

Okay. How you spread the floor is going to be important. and how you fill out the rest of your roster to be able to get perimeter shooting is going to be very important to Anthony Davis, to give him the space that he needs to go to work. So all these things are still in the flux because what Kauai did by, you know, kind of delaying his decision is now you've taken the ability for the Lakers to build out the roster

with shooters that were on the market earlier. They couldn't offer them contracts without knowing what they were going to do with that max salary they had by waiting for Kauai. So it's still some pieces to the puzzles. We all know the Lakers still have to make. What do you make of some of this post-mortem stuff on Kevin Durant that I didn't love playing for Steve Kerr is one story, that he and Draymond, when they got into it, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. There's the, you know, it wasn't that he and Steph didn't get along, but, you know, Steph's kind of the golden child there. Plus he's married.

There wasn't much of an off-the-court relationship. Like now that he's gone, are these the seeds that has sprouted the tree that pushed him out? I think it was a combination of a lot of stuff from what I'm hearing. Not that he didn't get along with his teammates. Again, you've got to have flare-ups, okay, in regards to either coach or a player. That's going to happen when you're in the locker room. And plus, you know, understand that when I was talking to Steve Kerr before, he said this has been the hardest year they've had just because of the expectations,

just because of the drain, the mental drain of getting back to a finals, getting through the regular season. So you put that into the bowl of stress that you have to deal with the high expectations, not just from Golden State or from Oakland, but from the NBA by itself. And then you have an individual who's still trying to prove that he's still the best player.

But you have all these shots being fired at him in regards to, well, you're on the best team, you have this. And are you really? So I'm not surprised in regards to Kevin Durant, leaving because the signs to me were already there if you just paid attention to it, you know, and it could be a combination of all those things you talked about. Does it work with him and Kyrie in Brooklyn?

I hope it does. I really do because, you know, we were talking on, speak for yourself a few days ago, and I talked about the value of those two being really great friends. And I've heard they've been talking about this for a while. And then, you know, Marcellus and Jason was, I don't know Marcellus wasn't there, but Jason said, you know, you shouldn't do business with friends. I said, I get it. But it's been some guys that have been great friends that are great business partners.

Okay. So it does work. And I think those two hopefully, you know, when Kevin Durant gets back and those young guys, you know, with the Nets continue to improve, that they can have a lethal combination that they can get along. Now, it has to be a lot of growing up and growth in Kyrie. Correct. And I think that to me is the key. Yeah.

And I think KD has to grow up as well. And maybe this year helps him, you know, absorb some of the culture. you see the game differently. I do think it's funny when people say you shouldn't do business with friends, that people say you shouldn't do business with family. On the other hand, you want to do business with people you trust, and like, all right, so you're going to do business with somebody you don't know at all? Exactly.

Sometimes knowing someone too intimately, it's held against you at time. And I get it. Yes. But the respect level, like I did business with friends, and it worked out perfectly. I did business with perfect strangers that I trusted, and it didn't. Yes. So it just depends on the individual and hopefully the culture within the net system

with Kenny Atkinson and also John Marks, who I play with in Miami. That system molds these players. But more importantly, it holds them accountable. That's the interesting part you point about the culture. And look, I've been crushing Kyrie a little bit because the culture of Boston was really good. And then it was not good. The chemistry is not good this year. And I don't think he should have all the blame.

No. I think, you know, Jason Tatum got gassed up by people in the media to tell him he was better than he was. Jaylon Brown. I think Jaylon Brown. I think, you know, take care of Rozier, you know, thinks he's the dude because he played pretty well in some home playoff games. But I do think that he's a big, on the other hand, just because you didn't fit into one culture doesn't mean if you're a bright guy. And we would all agree, Kyrie is a bright guy. You can't learn from your own mistakes, you know?

It's part of growth. Nobody's perfect. And Kyrie thought maybe that he learned something. from his tenure in Cleveland that he could take to Boston. It was a little bit different, especially. Now, what happens if Kyrie doesn't get hurt and he plays, okay? Okay? When Terry Rozier kind of took off and Jason Tatum had it.

What happens if Gordon Hayward doesn't break his leg in half the first two minutes of his career? A lot of that, a lot of that fed into the culture of the locker room. Yep. Okay. And Kyrie being the elder statesman probably caught a lot of that hearing. Okay, well, do we really need Kyrie? okay is he really integral yeah you need kairi he's a closure but you're going to look at all of those factors on why and then to boot this was a test stress test for brad stevens the first time he

really had to deal with the ego part right of the NBA and how to manage that which is extremely difficult it's it's it's probably the point that's made the least you just made the best way possible which is well i consider brad a friend and other guys in an organization and i do think one of the things missing on that bench, you know, they just hired three assistants is a guy who has been a player who can't, you know, they used to have Walter McCarty, who's now the head coach at Evansville.

But a guy who has been through this, who can be a go-between between Brad, who is brilliant, okay? And just, he shows up to work, to do work every day, and a guy who can, you know, what he means is, what you need to do is somebody who's been there,

the Sam Casell types. I think Jason Kidd can be integral for the, I think everybody thinks that, that Jason kids just going to stab Frank Vogel in the back, which may actually happen, but while he's stabbing in the back, I think it's a big part of, like, he's been a superstar

and a head coach in the NBA twice over, who better to relate what Frank Vogel wants and what LeBron wants to each other as kind of the go-between. Well, the challenge you always have with young players, and this is what you love, is the barado, the eagle. You have to have eagle to be great, okay?

Now, if it gets out of hand, now it hurts the locker room, but Brad Stevens came from Butler. So the guys, as you know, recruited were three or four-star guys. They grew over four years. The ego was out the door. They had a little bit of ego, but he was able to manage those young men because they grew and they understood that they had to outperform, outplay, outwork because we weren't as talented.

Okay? So we had to do things collectively as a team. You kind of had that that first year, you know, with Brad there, okay? That same kind of attitude. But then once the eagles got involved, Brad couldn't navigate through that, pull back a little bit, demand certain things because he was just learning himself. Okay? So it was a learning year, I think, for all of that. And it played into why I think Kyrie pushed back a lot.

Now, that doesn't make it right because you're the older guy. You should be able to navigate and get through that and walk these young guys and have them understand the importance of keeping it together. But it was a hodgepodge of a lot of things going on in Boston that caused, I think, Kyrie, not to be the leader he wanted to be. Let's circle back. I started by asking you where he's. should go, where do you think

Kauai Leonard will go? I think he stays. I think he does. You know, it's interesting because I think the meeting with the Lakers is very important from the fact that you had to figure out what's going on upstairs, okay, with management. Because... But he didn't meet with management.

He made it with magic. I understand, but like, I don't know. It's a weird dynamic. Here's my thing. It's a weird dynamic that you wait this long. I think guys know where they want to go. Yeah. They just got be pushed over the edge a little bit. Sure.

You know what I mean? I mean, the clippers, you know, what they're going to do? Toronto, what else are they going to sell you on, bro? You just won a championship. They've been in your ear the whole year about why it's important that you're coming back. The meeting with Magic or the phone call,

getting the information, which is weird anyway, because Magic basically, you know, threw a lot of those under the guys under the bus in management. I don't know if there was confidence in that perspective about where they're at now, but more importantly, Doug, where they're going. Right.

Because post-Lebron, you know, L.A. needs a superstar or two. We get it. But from a management perspective, an unfamiliarity with Frank Vogel, those questions would hinder a guy like Kauai's decision on being comfortable for not just next year, but for the future. See, that's where I would be critical of LeBron. Like, look, if LeBron met with Kawhi Leonard and he wants it to work, he wants it to happen, then he goes and picks up Frank Vogel at his,

a hotel room and says Rob Polink and you guys are good with me. It's the old Pee-Wee Reese. You guys remember the Pee-We Reese story? So Jackie Robinson, they're playing in Cincinnati one day and the fans are heckling him and they're saying nasty things to him. And Peewee

Reese walks over and he puts his arm around Jackie Robinson. He's with me. And that ended that. And if LeBron would have simply done that. And I don't know if he comes through, but if you have any questions about how things are rolling and LeBron James rolls up to your house or to your

hotel room and he's got Polinka with him and he's got Frank and they don't have to say a word but they're with me I got it I'm good it's what everything LeBron's saying they're all lockstep and I think that's a mistake in how they're pitching this thing. Yeah I mean it's so important because the Bron James

listen no other athlete has been able to control the narrative like DeBron in sports okay he's changed the way free agency is he's changed the way we do training camps he changed the way back to back games spreading out the season I mean all of this. And we know that he has a level of control within the organization. If he comes to Kauai and says, listen, bro, I know Frank is new, but don't worry about it.

We got AD this, the management, we're going to work that out. I have full confidence. That's a whole different pitch. You don't even need management after that point. You don't think you need him there? No, I'm talking about in regards to going to get a pitch from management. I understand. You know, I think if LeBron does that, that's a whole different animal because one thing for certain you may not agree with everything LeBron has done

but you trust what he's talking about because he's been there. You know, whether it's been in Miami and he has some issues there, but management was great. He was able to control the narrative in Cleveland, okay? And with the Lakers, you know, think about it, they need to win.

So when LeBron gives you his approval in regards to where they're going, you know, that's a huge statement. It is. Jim Jackson, of course, a longtime NBA stud, two-time Mr. Basketball and State of Ohio. Back in the day. Back in the day.

All-American, Mr. All-American at Ohio State. Thanks so much for stop. You got it, brother. Seamon speak for yourself. First, let's get to Venture Newsman, John Gullet. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herd Line News.

So, Manny Machado was back in Dodgers Stadium yesterday, and in the middle of the Padres' eventual 5-1 loss to the Dodgers, he was filmed interacting with a fan from the on-deck circle. Take a listen. Eddie, congrats with that big of a contract. You've got 10 October's off now. 10 straight october's off. Come on, he could have had it all.

It's my contract. What? We'll win a World Series before you guys. Did he say what I think he said? Yes, if you couldn't hear that, he said, I bet you my contract will win a World Series before you guys do. That is a $300 million contract. You probably could have bet the guy $20. box. Hey, I bet you

20. I bet you 100 bucks. I bet you $300. Now, what? Now, I didn't sign anything. Verbal contract is verbal contract is good enough. Is this overconfidence in his own team or maybe underselling the Dodgers a little bit?

Padreys coming in real close to the Dodgers. There's 17 games back of L.A. right now in the N.L. West. It's late in the year. Well, it's mid-year. I will say this about the Padres. they do have an unbelievable farm system. Sure.

They got great young players. They have a good plan. Yeah. Okay. But the idea that they're going to win a world, the Dodger in the last two World Series, and they're a favorite, they're a favorite to win this World Series.

Yes. And they're young. Yeah. And they keep coming up with new guys. Like, I've never heard of that guy. I mean, Cody Bellinger's only his third year in the league, and he has just exploded after having a down. year last year. Max Muncie, no one had ever heard of,

for he was unbelievable last year. Him and Turner, I think at one point, were cut by teams and we're just available to everybody and the Dodgers end up grabbing them. It's amazing. So they just seem to figure it out. They're really well run. They're really, really well managed.

And, you know, they've have a superstar as their ace and it's not even Clayton Kurt. They've moved on from Kershaw who eats up innings now. Like, they're unbelievable. So, I look, I like it. I just, like, dude, my bitch of my contract.

Really? No offense to the Padres, but the answer to will the Padres win a World Series before insert any team? No, probably not. Will they win a World Series during my contract? I guarantee will win a World Series during my 10 years. That's a better one to make. The Dodgers could win a World Series in like three months. Yes.

Whereas they do in three months, that's a new league record, right? August, September. October, you're right. You're my bad. My bad. I forgot what month we're in. There has reportedly been little to no interest from teams in center,

Boogie Cousins. He even switched agents to try to find a bigger deal out there somewhere. It's always the agent's fault. Somebody else making the calls. Someone's offering $20 million, but no one told the agents about it, right? Spurs Guard, DeMar de Rosen,

has reportedly been in contact with Boogie about joining the Spurs, and now a billboard has popped up in Texas, recruiting Boogie to San Antonio, For our radio listeners, it says boot scoot and boogie and has a picture of him in the Spurs jersey. I believe that is a Brooks and Dunn. Yes. Boots Scoot Boots and Boots Boogie, yes.

Yep. Brooks and Dunn, by the way, no longer together. I believe that happens frequently, from what I understand. Don't they always break up and get back together? It's not their thing. No, I think that's their thing. I think they just kick ass for so long that they're just moved on for most part. Anyway, cousins to the Spurs.

Buying it, it doesn't seem like a cultural fit, although. I could argue if he went there and behaved like he did with the Warriors, getting that stamp of approval from Popovich could mean a lot for him going forward. Does it work? Like I guess then the Marcus Aldrich is there, moves to power forward some.

When the Marcus Algeist is really a center? I mean, look, if he wants to come on a minimum contract, sure. Fine. If you're going to do a minimum, though, wouldn't you just go back to the Warriors? If they want him. Yeah. You know, if they want him. I mean, I think that the issue is it's over pay and it's over the fact that the league he is he has it's not what

it's not okay he's coming up still come off the Achilles and then he hurt his his thigh as well so he's got the injury thing going against him he's got the personality quirks of his days going back to Sacramento right and even some when he was in New Orleans although he's better and I think he's he's really helped in terms of how people believe his character but the biggest thing is like look if you can't defend ball screens you can't defend the rim it's really hard for people to find major minutes for you in the NBA. And though he's made himself into a guy who can make a perimeter three, that's not what he does best.

He's a beast down low, and the league's gone away from that. I told you in the meeting, I have my Pat podcast with All Ball podcast on the Hurt Podcasts, on the, Hurt Podcast Network. Pat Gerardy's on there. And I asked Pat, I was like, look, we ever get back to the days where big guys posting up is a big part of an NBA offense? He's like, no, no, those days are. gone. Like the numbers, the math

all tells you, that's not smart basketball. And smarter is better. And finally, one free agent who has just basically tied himself to Kauai Leonard is Danny Green. So while we're all waiting, like, oh, I wonder where Kauai's going to go. Danny's waiting or wondering the same

thing because he doesn't know where he's going to go. He's probably one of the best free agents still available. But if Kauai goes back to the Raptors, Danny Green probably goes with him. If he goes to the Lakers, maybe he goes with him and signs for a little bit less money, or he's at interest from the Mavs. I don't think it's a great sign that he won't just sign with the Lakers.

That means they can't get him if Kauai doesn't come, right? No, I think that's part of it, but I also think that there's, it has to, in terms of salary, I think it has to work in a certain order. But yeah, look, he wants to go somewhere where he can win. He likes playing with Kauai. He knows who he's going to get. I do think it's interesting that Kauai is not communicating with him. Maybe we should track his planes instead of tracking Korn.

Kauai's plane, which may have landed in San Diego earlier today. Maybe that's what we should. We're tracking the wrong. We're tracking the wrong guy. And that's John Goulet with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The third line news. The U.S. Women's National Team plays

the Netherlands, the Dutch in the World Cup final on Saturday. I'll be joined by Fox Soccer analyst. Oh, is that Sunday? It's Sunday. Sunday. Soccer Sunday. I'll be joined by Fox Soccer analyst Stu Holden next. This is The Herd. Be sure to catch live

editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottliebend for Colin, this is the herd. So Colin's vacation, he'll be back on Monday. And there are very few things I can guarantee about Collins' vacation. If you follow him on Twitter,

apparently he's fishing right now. It's fishing right now, which I want video of that. But you will, there will definitely at some point, be a shot of him on Twitter following both the men's national team and the women's national team

who will play for a World Cup this Sunday on Fox Too Holden Fox Soccer analyst joins us as the women get ready to take on the Netherlands. Are the Dutch at our level? Like it doesn't I don't know like we're the best in the world of defending

champions. Are they the rightful second best team to challenge in the World Cup final? At this point you You have to say yes. I mean, you would have said France, but we faced France in the quarterfinals and ran them over. And so Netherlands are the defending European champions. So they come into this tournament with a lot of confidence.

They've played some good stuff. They also haven't – they're not as deep as us, Doug. So, you know, our team we've been able to change out an entire team in our game against Chile to still get the result. But yet, Netherlands have had to play their best 11 almost this entire way. And they go to extra time in their game against Sweden. they fight through that match and the semifinal. They come in one day rests less than the United States. And the U.S. are big favorites in this game and should win at this point.

The one day less rest, I'm not sure people understand how much that affects you in any sport. You know, we talk about so many things like conditioning and how your body feels. When you have 24 hours less time to get off your feet that you're a completely different athlete. Megan Rapino didn't play in the semifinal because of, of a hamstring pull. Her replacement did actually score the first goal. You think she plays, right? She's got to play.

I mean, when I look at this injury, I mean, they kept this so quiet. She pulled apparently a little bit of a strain on the hamstring in the game against France. They came out for warm-ups. She was just standing off to the side, didn't even participate for the game, the last match against England, and then came out after she thinks she'll make it. To me, if it was an hamstring injury that did not force her out of the game in France, it's probably a grade one strain that's seven to ten days. Seven days would give you right about the final.

So I think they get her back for the final and I think they need her. She is the heartbeat of this team and she, you know, on and off the field. It takes a lot of that pressure off of all the other players. All right, she got into it with the president and then she had that awesome celebration, right, after scoring one of her goals and she scored a bunch of goals. And then Alex Morgan scores a goal and she does the tea sipping thing, which is like an ode to Game of Thrones, which she's, She posted on social media.

But the women's that she came out and said like, look, it's a double standard, right? Here's a double standard thing. If men celebrate, nobody criticizes. Didn't you call them out for saying it was a double standard as well when they ran up the score on the Thailand woman? It's been interesting. I think when you clarify what the criticism over, when I was critical of this team in the game against Thailand, it was because it was 13-0s team celebrations. I have no problem with celebrations.

I actually think that's a fantastic part of the game. And I love to see, I will say one thing overarching about this team. They have invited pressure. They have invited criticism. They have become a team that embraces that, and they live in this pressure zone. And every single time, you can't fault them. They stand up. They block it out.

I mean, Megan Rapino gets into it with the president of our country. She has, they have all this stuff going on or off the field that they're fighting for, equal pay, fight with the federation, the celebration, the celebration, the celebration. She turns out she scores two goals. I mean, this team, they back it up. And that's the most important thing. You know, you can talk to talk, but you've got to walk to walk, and they've done that. I mentioned Colin because he's a, he's, he like has Pulisic's autograph.

We had a 30-minute conversation in the hallway. I got Pulisit the other day. I mean, he's all in on Polisic. Okay, so they take out Mexico this weekend. And this has become kind of a real rivalry. We used to dominate them. What, how do you think the U.S. men's national team is playing? They're playing well. I would say coming into this game against Mexico, the United States

needed the game against Mexico more than Mexico need the United States because the coach has been saying throughout, we're trying to restore respect for the United States globally on a soccer level after not qualifying for the World Cup. I would say you need to get respect back in your own country and your own region first. And you know how you do that? You beat the best team in the region, which right now is Mexico. And coming into this game, coming in this tournament, in fact, I would said Mexico were the favorites. I actually was thinking they were going to roll the United States if they played. I have been pleasantly surprised because my expectations were so low for this team on what they have done to us over the past year and a half. And I think they come into

this team, this game with confidence. They play well against Jamaica. Polisic is playing lights out. He is the best player. Collins should be all on this train for a reason. He is the real deal. And you have other players that are playing well, scoring goals. Michael Bradley's playing well, Josie Altador. So coming into the game, this one's going to be close. reasonable expectations for the future of our men's national team. Reasonable expectations? You know, long term, I hope we can get to a point where we are once again taken seriously in World Cups and that we could go to quarterfinals, semi-finals, even a final.

Right now that's not realistic. We need more players like Polisic when you look at other countries and you look at... Do we have them in the pipeline? I mean, the future is bright. We don't have any Pulisics yet. I can't say I've seen any other players. But the amount of investment at the youth levels, our youth national teams, our 20s just had a pretty good performance at the World Cup.

So there's guys that have to, that I'm saying, okay, I can see this guy's going to be good, but can they get another level up? That's the question. When you have a guy like Polisic who goes to Germany from 16 years old, performs on a high level, goes now $73 million to Chelsea. We're going to see if he has another gear. But these other countries have 10 Polisics.

We have one right now. So, you know, we need to A-qualify for the World Cup. 2020 is an absolute necessity. And then, you know, we'll go from there. 2026 is where we're hoping this team can really start competing. Stu Holden. We're planning on like Texas, Notre Dame in 2026 and, of course, the U.S. Smedge national team.

Huge weekend for U.S. soccer. Colin is back on Monday. Maybe we'll have clarity on Kauai Leonard. Maybe, or maybe he just drags this out and makes it the summer of Kauai. In the meantime, I think he should stay or go to the Clippers and not chase the jewelry with the Lakers. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is The Hurt. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

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