The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Kyrie Irving the Flawed Messenger

Episode Date: June 15, 2020

With Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin Cowherd today, Doug tells us why Kyrie Irving is right with his opinions but may not be the best voice for the message, MLB's ongoing dispute over the start of the season, and reaction to Lamar Jackson playing pick-up football on the beach. Guests include Chris Broussard, Eric Mangini and Ric Bucher. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Find your local station for the Hurt at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHartRadio app by searching Hurd. Fox Sports Radio. Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be making as part of your day. It's live from Los Angeles on the IHeart Radio app, Fox Sports Radio, and here on Fox Sports One, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie, filling in for Colin Cowherd.

Lovely and talented Joy Taylor alongside. Joy, how are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. It is weird. It is still weird. to be in June, be home on a Sunday, and to only have golf to watch. Right?

That was, it's supposed to be NBA finals right now, right? There's a lot to be going on right now, yeah. There is. But the NBA is interesting because the league which, I think anyone would deem to be the most progressive of the major and even maybe minor professional sports leagues is the one who, over the weekend, there was, some pushback as to the Orlando bubble plan.

Get to that. Should point out to you that Eric Mangini is going to join the show. Chris Broussard will join the show. Rick Buecker will join the show. I have this thought. I have this thought for you on baseball. A point that I have reached on baseball that in one hour we will share with you, which I think speaks to all of us collectively on Major League Baseball.

We'll get to that. But let's start with the fact that no matter what else you, you think about the NBA, about who the best player is, about who the team to beat is, the voice, the face, the leader of the league is LeBron James. And I point that out because over the weekend, we're actually on a Friday night. And can you imagine, I just like, sometimes you got to understand the day and time in which you pick it, but Friday night, there's a phone call. And apparently there's 80 players, some WNBA players who WNBA is going to have a season, they're going to get full compensation. It's going to be in Bradenton, Florida. I understand why they're

kind of collectively bonding together. I do think, though, that too many voices and too many perspectives at times are a bit too much for this particular discussion, but there's 80 players on a call. And one of the dissenting voices as the Orlando bubble plan was not another than Kyrie Irving. Now, it should be pointed out that, look, Kyrie Irving does have this weird ability, weird ability to generate a reaction, not based upon always what he says, but some of the things he has previously said. Or the thought that there are some to think,

well, the only reason Kyrie wouldn't want to play is he doesn't want LeBron to get another championship. Cairo, of course, carries the badge of being a flat earther, which I don't actually think is what Kyrie Irving is. I think Kyrie Irving's flat earth philosophy is more challenging conventional wisdom, right? It's the don't always just believe what you've always been taught because you've always been taught it. And he uses being a flat earther as an example. The problem with that is it goes directly in the face of science and arguing to the rest of the world,

something we know to be a scientific provable fact, isn't a scientific provable fact, does cause anything else he says to have us roll our eyes. But when Cary Irving says, hey, look, is it possible that playing this season in Orlando in a bubble, which takes all of these talented men away from their homes and puts them on TV in an empty arena playing basketball, does that distract us, us as a country, us as a league, from what's most important long term, which is this push for justice, for equality, for the things that we want to see happen as a country in this time of change. So here's what I want to do, and this is really important.

Look, I'm not going to shoot the messenger, although I can point out that Kyrie Irving is the same guy who apparently the week before on a similar call offered no sort of pushback on the Orlando plan and simply want to know would there be booze down there. It's the same Kyrie Irving who's not even going to play in Orlando. Wait, you don't want us to go on a trip and decide a champion even though you're not actually going to play and be on the trip and decide a champion?

That strikes me as odd. No, no, no, no. look what what so many Americans not just minorities okay but people who there are others that are disenfranchised you had all these gay pride parades yesterday across the country all black lives matter changing the black lives matter for for a day we're seeing change and progress but in this particular form hey we want to be heard that's it that's what black people have been telling white people I was like, listen, you have to understand your perspective isn't our perspective because you don't live in our world, in our skin on a daily basis.

You don't know what it is like. Let me explain to you what it is like. We're being told, listen. So you know what? I think that's a good plan. Let's listen. Let's listen to what Kyrie Irving's saying. Does he have flaws as a messenger?

Sure. Of course he does. Kaepernick had flaws as a messenger. But what about the message? Is there some validity to the idea? that if we're really all in for the cause of changing things, why get distracted and go back to work and play basketball? Now, my personal perspective, again,

I'm a white former basketball player. I don't know what it's like to be a black basketball player, especially one that has the type of wealth and influence that NBA players, especially superstars like Kyrie and LeBron and others have. But my personal perspective is, especially working in the media, don't you have a greater platform when you're playing six nights a week on national TV across multiple platforms and multiple networks, right? Like, yes, you could dedicate yourself.

You could dedicate your life to trying to change the world. But couldn't you also do that while playing in the NBA? I mean, the perfect example is LeBron James. LeBron James, who has been a champion for social justice going back years. LeBron James, who has fostered change in the school system in Akron. LeBron James is a part of a coalition of star athletes trying to bring about change and pushing people towards voting. And you know what? LeBron James can say that every time he has a postgame interview or in between interview or no matter what network he's on,

if you're playing in Orlando and you're one of the select few media members who gets to interview LeBron James, it's in LeBron's court if he wants to push people to vote, if he wants to push for continued awareness of social justice reform, right? Like my perspective is, I think it's an ill-thought-out strategy, but it's really, really, to me, an important case study in, are we actually listening? Because if you watch enough, you do realize that no matter what argument you're making, there's a lot of still shouting going on.

There's more listening, maybe not enough. so why don't we use this Kyrie Irving argument hey if you're if we really want to have social justice reform then being distracted by playing basketball and going back to work and being on TV that that'll cause people to not watch these protests not pay attention to so many of these videos and not pay attention to what's going on not just neither cities but in the suburbs and the chains that we're trying to have take place. I'm willing to listen. I don't agree with the argument, but again, the exercise and the importance of this time is to not think you have all the answers. Instead, listen to other people's perspective who do not share your own background, your own

viewpoints, your own perspective. Joy, let me ask you, when you, Ice Cube tweeted about it, Dwight Howard also was in support of Kyrie Irving. Do you think is it a, when you hear what Kyrie says, what do you think? Well, I mean, it's important to remember that everyone in the black community doesn't have the same opinion about how to go about things as well. But we all agree that there has to be change made. In my opinion, I think having a platform is very impactful. I am more powerful with my platform than without it. If Kyrie chooses to not play basketball anymore because he feels like that's,

going to be more effective, then that's the path that he's going to take and he'll put his efforts towards that. I don't think that that changes the impact that anyone who does play basketball and continues to talk about it is going to have. I think it's best to continue playing basketball and using the platform for that purpose. Because in my opinion, while it may take some eyes away from the news, it's just going to redirect those eyes to the sport, in which in which case, they must hear what you have to say. They must listen to you. They must see you before games.

They must hear your interviews before games and after games. You can't avoid it. And for all those people that are out there saying, you know, we're not going to watch sports anymore and sports are canceled and we're not going to watch the NFL anymore. Like, okay, then you just really weren't a sports fan to begin with. I don't believe that. I don't believe those people.

There's a very small percentage of people that I think will, out of principle, stop watching sports. The world's going to pass them by anyway. So to use your platform to continue to have, that platform that influence that power, the money that comes along with it that can go very far in the community to me is what I would do. But I fully understand what Kyrie is saying. I think that the situation in Orlando is questionable at best. And I mean, ideal is an understatement. There's

nothing ideal about that circumstance. So I'm on both sides of it. I fully understand what Kyrie is saying. I support what he's saying. And if players want to go back and play and they feel like they can use that platform as they should use that platform, I'm supportive of that as well. I take what, look, what Pat Beverly said is really powerful in the sport. And Patrick Beverly tweeted out, if LeBron's playing, we're all playing. And here's the tweet.

If you're watching on Fox Sports 1, if you're listening on the IHeart Radio app for Fox Sports Radio, hoopers say what y'all want. If King James says he's hooping, we all hooping. Not personal, only business. Hashtag stay woke. which I think speaks to while Janus won the MVP last year and may win it this year, while I believe that before injury, Kevin Rant was actually the best basketball player,

and James Harden is a great offensive player. And there's a lot. It's still LeBron's league. He is still the leader. And they are still following him. And one of the flaws to Kyrie's argument is that it's Kyrie presenting it, not just based upon not just based upon his own history

or you know with the Celtics fan if they'll help me back I'll be back next year or some of the other thing just last week right the same people are on the call and he's all for it and now all of a sudden he does a 180 it doesn't though take away from what you're pointing

out which is hey look we actually have to listen to this and see what is the best path for social justice reform so that so that people feel like they are being heard and I'm with you. Well, I disagree. And I also, like I pointed out last week, I think the bubble idea is a terrible idea for different reasons, for more sports reasons than anything, right?

Three months in a hotel, you're not going to get your best performance. Hell, two months in a hotel, you're going to hate your best friend because it's just too much time around one another, especially when the rest of the world is opening up. But just the idea of coming back in, will I play or will I not play simply based upon what's best for social justice reform? I hear you. Okay. I respect the thought. I just greatly disagree because you and I share the same perspective.

You have a much bigger platform. And oh yeah, by the way, you got a lot more money to spend on whatever causes you want. That it's not your money. It's somebody else's money that while they're profiting, they're going to continue to shuffle money to you, funnel money to you, and you can use it for all those same causes. Meanwhile, you have a greater platform to share whatever your thoughts are

on the right process torch change we should have. Anyway, listen, it's a discussion. That's the big thing. Are you willing to actually listen to somebody who has a different perspective than you do? It doesn't mean you have to agree with them. But a week in a couple days ago, you and I sat nice a judge.

Like the flaw to Drew Brees, this thing was, wasn't his perspective on the flag, it was, I will never agree with anyone who. You can't start a sentence that way, which is why anyone who's in our position can't say, Kyrie, come on, man. It's Kyrie. No, his, his perspective is X. My perspective is Y. Is Y willing to listen to X? And the answer is yes. And yet I still disagree. In the age of social media, you have to remember what's actually important. One Superstar or former superstar quarterback needs to remember what's most important NFL teams.

I'll share that with you next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the HARD. Weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs,

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What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we,

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famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue. 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Let's sit back. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. This is the heard. Chris Broussard will join us just around the corner. Joy Taylor is going to join us with the news. She's got some great stuff. Interesting updates. And there's only one thing that baseball needs to know, I will share it with you. next hour.

I follow Cam Newton on Instagram, and he's got some great stuff. Like, there's a video that he put on IG yesterday. It looked like it was at UCLA, if you know anything. But I always do that. When you watch videos, you look at the background, like, where is he? Where is that workout? And Odell Beckham Jr. can see the OBJ cleats. OBJ has no shirt on.

He's throwing the ball to Odell Beckham Jr. You're like, oh, that's UCLA. I see Pauly Pavilion in the background that's at, you know, one of UCLA's practice fields, Right? And then you see like a UCLA football like, oh, hey, I know where that is. Actually, right down the street from where we're broadcasting from. So, look, it's cool. It's set to music. You know, he's got iron sharpens iron. That's great.

It looked really good. Like, no downside to it. But I do think that there's a separation between social media and the real world. right like i i saw this quote it is possible for you to work out without it being filmed right it is possible there are workouts all over los angeles not just in football and basketball and baseball that aren't being filmed just mrlander just posted on his instagram him throwing in it throwing in a cage right like guys are working on their games they are making preparations for some sort of upcoming season and for cam newton that new doesn't have a job

who's trying to show that he's healthy and ready whenever called upon can do the job and if you don't believe me, just ask O'Dell Beckham Jr., one of the elite wide receivers in the NFL, who he's working with and honing his craft with. But Kim Newton doesn't have a job and there's a litany of reasons why.

If the argument is or was, well, it was 19 million, first of all, it's actually not that much in the grand scheme of things if he's legitimately a starting quarterback. Secondly, now it's not a $19 million salary cap number. It's whatever you want it to be or whatever he's willing to accept. And for Cam Newton, if you talk to people in the league, whether it's the fact they haven't been able to evaluate him because of quarantine, or it's because, hey, look, Carolina

had him, allowed him to go through rehab and then released him. Or maybe it's that the Redskins and his former coaching staff chose to bring over his backup instead of Cam Newton, or that Brandon Bean and Sean McDermott, who were in Buffalo, also used to be part of Carolina's staff. They haven't shown any interest. When people who know you and have worked with you haven't

shown any interest, and then other teams are suspicious of the health of your shoulder, which is the most important part of your body if you're a quarterback, especially one as athletic as Cam Newton is and most definitely was early in his career. He has to be more of a thrower

now, especially once he hits 30 years old, he's had multiple leg operations. Like he's got to be more of a thrower. And people are wondering not just if he's healthy, what his throwing motions like, and if he can stay healthy. It looks cool. But does it really translate the message you want to the rest of the NFL?

I think the answer is not really. If you're trying to get likes, put it on IG. If you're trying to get better, you should be working with specialists, especially, and if you're going to put something on, like, this had to, this, this is planned out. Somebody doesn't just follow you around with one of those really cool cameras and film a workout and set it to music. You got somebody who's editing and it looks, it's movie quality. It looks, I am not disputing that it looks cool. But if you're trying to sell yourself to an NFL team as being ready, have a specialist working with you. Show us film of,

you're working on your footwork, your release, and the ability to replicate time and again the exact same release. Show us that. That's actually working with other elite quarterbacks, working with guys that are making you better, that's actually iron-sharpening iron. This is just two superstar athletes

going out and throwing the ball out in a yard. It looks cool and it's fun, but does it actually say to the NFL, hey, I hear you. I hear that you think I'm not healthy. I hear that you think my throwing motion was a little bit screwy, and that's why I was throwing dirt balls before I had a shoulder operation, and then before they shut me down for the year.

And here's what I'm doing to improve my craft as we get ready for this upcoming season. Look, it's not going to be easy for him, and he may be in prime position, because you can love RG3 all you want. If, God forbid, something happens with Lamar Jackson, you saw the video that was out there yesterday, you're like, oh, man. Something happens to Lamar Jackson. Something happens in Buffalo to Josh Allen.

Something happens to Deshawn Watson. Something happens to Dak Prescott. Something happens to any legit starting quarterback. The first call you make should be to Cam Newton. It should be. And so maybe he becomes the country's backup. But between carrying the badge of, hey, the guys that worked with him to this point have chosen

not to employ him, Carolina, D.C. or in Buffalo, the fact that he still is trying to be a social media star and not an NFL star. Like, look, all these quarterbacks are working out. They all are. Aaron Rogers is in L.A., is throwing the guys. Don't see it on IG. Dishon Watson is throwing the guys. Lamar Jackson throwing the guys apparently on a beach and making guys fall and getting tackled by a jet. causing us all to hold our breath, but they're all doing their work, making their preparations. You're the one who's putting out a music video

instead of showing us that you can throw, showing us that you're honing your craft. Maybe I'm missing what he's trying to show us, but I do think there's a disconnect there between trying to be social media popular and showing the NFL world that you're ready to work. Let's get to Joy Taylor with the News. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Tua has been dedicating to rehabbing since his hip injury in November. And his physical therapist, Kevin Wilk, is amazed how far Tua has come in such a short amount of time. He said he's doing miraculously well. The miraculous part is that he healed so well. The second part, he's done so well at getting his strength back, which usually takes a long time after something like this. He's laser focused, one of the most focused I've ever seen anyone.

He spent around three and a half hours each workout on his hip ankle. and left shoulder. Wilk has been in contact with the Dolphins Head Trainer as well. I guess this is good news. I mean, obviously the dolphins are my team, and I want two to be successful. And I think he already has the star factor in place. Obviously, he's top of the jersey sales

and all anyone can talk about in Miami. But I'm not a doctor, right? So who knows? Maybe he is recovering miraculously well. That doesn't make me any less nervous. about him starting right away, which I think he will. And if the dolphins feel confident about it and his doctors feel confident about it and he feels confident about it, sure.

Because I think that there's going to be a lot of pressure for him to start week one. I also don't think Brian Flores is the kind of coach that just bends to pressure. It's just going to be one of those things where they get in camp and he looks great and they're going to want him out there. If it was my preference, I would like him to sit a little longer. I would too. I want to know he's fully, like, I'm not trying to in any way disrespect his physical therapist. But this goes along the lines of your

quarterback coach and guys that work with these guys. They're employees. They're paid by you. So, of course, this is incredible. Well, I mean, they can... Yeah, like, miraculous is a very big, strong

term to apply to this. And maybe it's true. I'm with you. What are you going to say? Now, he doesn't have to go that far. He can say like it's coming, it's progressing well. He doesn't have to go as far as miraculous. But he's certainly not going to say that he's doing terrible and that this is not going to work. He's not going to say that.

I agree. But the thing that concerns me this year is transitioning to our next story is that they're not going to have as much time in the preseason. These rookies are as they have in previous years. So they're obviously going to have to adjust to this unusual offseason. Pete Carroll is concerned that those younger players won't have as many opportunities to prove themselves, especially if the preseason is cut to two games. Yeah. I mean, like you're... That's one thing that it changes.

is the opportunity for the young guys to show themselves. There just might not be enough time to really give them the chance. So you might be behind in that area a little bit. Maybe the free agent doesn't get as many shots as he needs to show. You know, he misses those last two games are so crucial, you know, for a young guy trying to make a club. So I would think that would be the area of focus. There's a volume of reps.

And it's not just to a offensive line. Like they've made, they've basically turned over the whole roster in Miami, right? With a couple exceptions, they've turned a whole. whole thing over. And the idea that it will be humming week one, the likelihood is it won't. Now, you can trim down the playbook and you can simplify it and keep him safe. Or, like, if you really believe that Tua Tunga Tunga Vailoa is your quarterback for the future, the future is not limited to this year. It's a 10, 15-year partnership between team and player. What's the rush, right? Like, what really is, what really is the? What really is the

rush. People are excited. He's the guy that everybody thought you tanked for and he end up falling to you in the draft. But he's been hurt every year he's played in college football and he's coming off of a devastating injury and he's playing with a newly formed team. And you have Ryan Fitzpatrick who's fine. And Ryan Fitzpatrick has played this game before. Be the starter until the backup is ready. That's what he is. He's a professional at this. I think you're much smarter not putting any sort of pressure, not using words like miraculous, not trying to sell us on his readiness, because whether he's ready or not, he shouldn't play,

and not having a trim, not having OTAs, having a trim down preseason, a new team coming off a devil, all these things are telling you, don't rush it. And yet the people around him are telling us he's ready, he's ready, he's ready, I think it's a mistake. Well, they want to instill some confidence in the fan base, obviously, as well. And that's what Pete Carroll's point is. Rookies are not going to have as much time to prove themselves.

Now, obviously, someone like Tua or Justin Herbert or Joe Burrow, like, they're on the team. They don't have to make the team. So the other rookies that are, you know, further down on the draft or fringe guys that are trying to make the team, it's going to be more difficult for them, these younger guys. Again, I'm with you. I don't see the point in Rushing him if you have Fitzpatrick, other than just the fan base is going to be demanding. Like, they've been waiting for this. And a lot of fan bases have been waiting for this.

The only difference is in a situation like Tua, it's a catastrophic injury that he's coming off of. And that's not his fault, but it is just the reality of the situation. But all rookies, rookies and young guys and teams that have new head coaches or young, new head coaches and young quarterbacks, like, for example, the Giants. I just feel like they're going to be up against it this year. And the way I'm looking at it is just going to be a more patient viewer with those teams. Like there's no need to overreact if they have a bad start to the season. It's completely understandable. That doesn't mean that's not necessarily going to reflect how it goes into later in the season

and obviously what their career is going to be. It's just a different circumstance this year and everyone is up against it. Finally, as the NBA gets ready to restart, some of the younger stars are looking out for their futures. According to Wojj, there are intensified concerns about the increased potential for injury following the long shutdown and rush training camp leading into regular season games. So Bam out of Bio, Deeran Fox, Kyle Kuzma, Donovan Mitchell, and Jason Tatum, have spoke with the Players Association to discuss asking the League to finance insurance policies

to protect them against any long-term or career-threatening injuries when the season resumes in Orlando. They're all members of the 2017 NBA draft class, so those five players are eligible for rookie extensions, beginning with the start of free agency period in mid-October. So the union in the league are still negotiating terms to revise terms to the CBA before the 22 team restart. This might be something that they include in that. I think that's a completely fair ask for these guys. These are not guys that have made all their money yet. They're in a situation where they're rushing back.

We've all discussed the possibility of injuries and what the concern is for that based off of the fact that a lot of people, even if they have been working out, have not obviously had intense workouts that are going right into this. It is a concern. And for these guys, they're completely vulnerable to that. It makes sense to ask for that.

I think it makes a lot of sense to ask. I think you also might get the answer back of, yeah, we'll do something, but you've got to split it with us, right? Like, do I think the league wanting to play is, it's reasonable to say, hey, we're going to play. We're going to show you the goodwill of playing. But you've got to show us some understanding of there's a likelihood, at least a slightly higher likelihood of injury, even though they're going to have training camp and their slow rolling this thing out. Look, again, I think it's a reasonable ask. But I also think, and this kind of goes, you got to understand, the NBA might say like, all right, we'll split it with you.

You know? I mean, wait. I have to pay you to come back and I'm paying you your full rate of salary even though there's no fans in the stands. And I got to pay for your insurance to play? But the players are assuming the

health risk in this spot. And while the owners are taking a hit, everyone is taking a hit, if one of them, one of these guys, for example, has a catastrophic injury, that's going to affect their money moving forward for a shorter amount of time. Like, there's no limit to how long you can own an NBA team.

There's a limit to how long they can play the sport. So it is a fair ask. And I think that the NBA is going to be, they've obviously been very involved in having open conversations with the players. I don't think that this is something that if they really insist on it, that they'll overlook. Yeah, I don't, again, I don't know the cost. Like, yeah. I mean, what the details of the cost are going to be, will be negotiated, but I think it will actually happen. Agreed. And that's Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. All right, come up next. Bruce Ard is going to join the show. Does Kyrie speak for a very slim minority of the players?

A vast majority of the players. There is pushback towards the Orlando bubble idea. Does Kyrie Irving have a point? Well, that's Chris Brousard. He joins us next in the Herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to history. historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to SportsClace on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed. That's correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me.

He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio

app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What up, Doug Gottliebend for Colin? This is the herd. Joy Taylor alongside. And we got a great show for you. Let's welcome in Chris Broussard. He's joining us on care of Mercedes-Benz, the best or nothing. And of course, you can hear Chris on the odd couple. He and Rob Parker every afternoon, West Coast time, 4 o'clock, East Coast time, 7 o'clock on Fox Sports Radio on your I-Heart radio app. Chris, in addition to hosting a national radio show and appearing on all of our shows for a long time,

you've covered the NBA. Just give me your sense. The call on Friday, how big was, or how loud was Kyrie's voice and his pushback towards the Orlando bubble in comparison to the rest of the call? Doug, yeah, I talked to somebody who was on the call. And from what I'm told,

Kyrie's voice was certainly the strongest. but the notion that Kyrie made this call to convince everybody not to play from what I'm told is not true. What I'm told is that after they took the vote a week or so ago, which Kyrie voted to play in Orlando, right? He began having conversations with other players

who were telling him they were upset that their voice wasn't heard. It was a lot of players. So he set up this call so that guys can have their voices heard. He invited pretty much the whole league, including LeBron. And so on the call, Kyrie shared his view that they shouldn't go play in Orlando. But what I'm told is he also said multiple times, this is my, this is how I feel.

But whatever you guys want to do, I'm with it. This is just my feeling. I'm also told he was not the only player who had the sentiment that they shouldn't play. We know it's been reported to why Howard, Avery Brad, kind of echoed Kyrie's points, but I'm told there were a few other players as well. But Doug, from talking to agents, other players, people in front offices around the league,

from what I'm being told, it's all systems go on the NBA plan. If certain guys don't want to play, then fine, they will replace them because obviously they're expanding roster to 17. There are players that would love to be signed and haven't yet had a chance the NBA or we're out of the NBA for this season like J.R. Smith,

Jamal Crawford, guys like that. And so they are planning to go ahead and play. The only real obstruction to this that I see is if superstars get on board with Kyrie Irvin's thinking and then decide not to play, that's when you've got a problem. Or if the numbers are in the hundreds of guys that don't want to play and agree with Kyrie. Also, it was a smaller point. The main thing was the racial discussion, but the COVID-19 concerns and also concerns about being in the bubble over a long period of time.

Some guys, you know, have wives that are pregnant and they were concerned about, you know, being away from her being in this bubble. So there were other concerns, but it was mainly the social justice stuff. He also said that there's a tiered system and only 20 of us are at the top tier. He said he's included in that, said something's fishy. I want to get your perspective. As a black man, do you think it's a bad look or it's a distraction from the cause to get back to work to playing NBA basketball in Orlando at the end of July? I don't think anything's fishy.

You know, I don't think there's some conspiracy to, I don't know, sequester the black players in Orlando and do something. So I don't think anything's fishy. I do agree with Kyrie's overall sentiment. And I like, not that they shouldn't play, but I like the way he's thinking. Because I have said for the longest that black athletes have a power that they don't understand. I actually think black athletes have more power than any other group of African Americans to make change in this country because of their popularity, their wealth, their connections to corporate America through endorsements and marketing and their unique skills. set. No one can really do what they do. So that makes them irreplaceable and that gives them a leverage

that your average African American, including politicians, don't have. So I'm glad he's thinking in terms of let's use our power and our leverage to make systemic change. What I don't like at this point is that I don't see a plan. I'm told that they have, they do want to talk about some type of plan or demands, but nothing's come out yet. And so just sitting out to sit out, Doug, does not accomplish anything. But I believe that the players should make demands and attach demands or asks, if you will, to their willingness to play. Adam Silver is a player's commissioner.

Sure. The league has said they want to, you know, stand against systemic racism. What have they done, though? They are better than the other leagues in terms of their internal hiring, but the NFL just committed $250 million over 10 years. I haven't seen anything like that from the NBA. I would like the players to go to the league, Adam Silver and such, and say, look, we would like for the owners in the league to make a real,

we want to ask them really to address systemic racism by starting, say, management trainee programs within their other corporations and companies for African Americans. With the goal being that within a certain period of time, 10% of their management and executive class is African American because 10% of the college graduates in America are black, but we're not getting those positions at the same rate. So they can demand that the NBA or the owners make contributions, hefty contributions, to historically black colleges and universities, build up their athletic programs

so at least basketball-wise, they can compete, and a black college or high school star isn't making this huge sacrifice of losing out on training and equipment and technology if he goes to an HBCU over one of the big predominantly white schools. So I think those are things the players can ask for

as a concession for them to play. Do you believe that any of the stars are willing to not play basketball? Because that's one of the things that Kyrie said is, you know, the idea of maybe I, maybe I won't play anymore. Do you think there is anyone who feels so strongly that they would walk away from an NBA career for this cause? Well, let me address Kyrie because I know some of your sentiment is he's, the messenger is kind of different. And there's truth to that. I think Kyrie, if he were talking about COVID or the bubble being reasons they shouldn't play, I wouldn't feel he's qualified for that because he's not playing.

But the racial and social injustice stuff, of course, he's well qualified to speak about that. Now, there are some around the league, Doug. Maybe you've heard it as well that feel like Kyrie just doesn't really want to play. Like he's questioning going forward. You know, that's, I've heard that for a while. I don't think he, I think he will play, but there are those who just wonder how much he really wants to play in the future. So that can put his statement about I'm willing to give it all up, you know, to heal this

land as far as social injustice. So that's legitimate. As far as stars, I think at this very moment, the overwhelming majority, if not all of them, are planning on playing. Everything I've heard about the Lakers, LeBron, A.D., Kauai and Paul George with the Clippers, James Hardin and Russell Westbrook in Houston, Janice, Anta Dekulba. Like, everything I've heard is that they all want to play. I did talk with a player last night who said that he is told that some stars on an Eastern Conference playoff team don't want to play, but he said they will play. He said they really don't want to come back, but they are planning to do so.

I think right now it's full system goal on playing again. I don't know if these recent developments with the recent shooting in Atlanta and Kyrie's call, does this make players think twice or change their minds or now COVID is surging in Florida and other places? Maybe things like that can change their mind. But at this very moment, from everything I'm told, it's all systems go. And to me it speaks to it's still LeBron's, it's still his. league, right? And Patrick Beverly's tweet was LeBron says he's playing, we're playing,

and as LeBron goes, the league goes. Fair? To some degree. I think more so it is the players understand how much money they stand to lose. And they understand that they lose a lot of leverage in the new collective bargaining agreement and negotiations that will take place in the future.

Their feeling is that if we don't play, the owners may lock us out for some new negotiations and we will not have much leverage in our new agreement and we'll we'll lose we'll take a step back so and i think that's legitimate i think that is the driving force now because i think if lebron were to join kairy and maybe i'm wrong i he certainly is a powerful voice and i do think a lot of players would think twice uh about joining in that but i also think some players would look at well lebron i mean you don't have to make another dime for the rest of you

your life and you're set and your kids and their kids are set. So I think there's always that a lot of these guys only going to be in the league three or four years. A lot of these guys are going to make about a million dollars a year or less. So they're looking at it like, man, I need this money and I need it now. A lot of guys in the league, Doug, live check to check. And so I think it's more the money that is driving guys than LeBron not quite being or not being on board with not playing.

Last thing, Chris, I got about 30 seconds, 45 seconds for you. My concern with the bubble is quality of play. Like we've seen teams, Lakers, their longest road trip, they played the Bucks the last game. They just had no gas in the tank. I just feel like you get to three months in the bubble NBA finals and guys are going to be tired of each other, right? Like any road trip you take with your buddy, you're tired of each other. And the quality of play won't be championship. Quality of play, how much concern is there over that?

I think that's a legitimate concern. We've talked about the injuries, but look, Doug, they're going to be playing every other day. And you better believe that some of these teams, they're going to load management at eight games. I would not expect to see Kauai all eight games, you know. So they're going to be playing every other day. That's going to take a toll on their bodies. And so you're absolutely right. Like the quality of play may be low for these playoffs, which is obviously not great.

Chris Broussard, check them out on the odd couple. that's tonight, 7 o'clock Eastern, 4 o'clock Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, along with our crazy uncle, Rob Parker. And of course, you see him undisputed on all of our other TV shows. Chris, hope you're well. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks, Doug. All right. Chris Broussard joining us.

Really fascinating. All right. I want to continue the conversation about Kyrie Irving because, boy, he's quirky. You know, he's interesting. He's intelligent. He's talented. But is he a leader? It's a fascinating discussion.

We'll have it next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Herd. One more Heard? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games,

from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice.

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast,

learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett, my mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be in. However, you may be making it as part of your day. Thanks so much, live from Los Angeles. I'm Doug Gottlie, filling in for Colin Cowherd,

whether you're listening on the IHeart Radio app on Fox Sports, Sports, radio or watching us on FS1. Hope you had a great weekend. And many of you getting back to your full and regular work day, stay safe. How are you? I would continue to be a very conscious of COVID-19 wear your mask, even if you're not

legally forced to do so. Like, what's the point? Just because you don't have to in some places doesn't mean you should. Enjoy Taylor alongside. you're still going full mask, correct? When I'm out in public, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, we wear masks around work. It's not really that inconvenient. It's not. Plus, it's a little style to it, and, you know, I don't have particularly good-looking face, so covering it up, not that bad a deal. It's good for the sun, you know, it's protecting your face of the sun. If I throw on a hat, covers up the hairline, I throw on a mask,

it's great. It's really great. It takes away all of my bad attributes, and, you know, all of a sudden, it's just a, you know, just a hat-wearing guy with blue eyes. So that actually kind of points out the one positive I got working for me. Joy, I hope you had a great weekend. We're in this weird space where we'll get to baseball in 15 minutes.

We're in this weird space where I think, I think a good portion of Americans. And I'm willing to, I really don't like the fact that we do as media members, biggest pet peeve I have is people who are in the media talking about the media as if they're not in the media, right? Like, we're all kind of different part of the business, but it's still our business. And one of the thing, so number one thing I don't like about media guys is where they go, the media, like, well, you're in the media.

Well, the mainstream media. Well, like, you're, whatever. You're in the media. You're part of it, either part of the solution, part of the problem. And one of the things that we do is we do have a tendency see to turn the cameras to whatever the fringes are when the meat of the middle is where and i think most of everyone in the middle is like look this got to be a time we got to listen to each other right like let's let's listen to different perspectives people whose either faces look different than ours or skin is a different color of us or come from a different area live in a different area want to hear you out right that that's part of the deal so we started the show and when i initially

heard Kyrie Irving talk about the possibility hey maybe we shouldn't go play basketball in Orlando because it becomes a distraction and distracts America from the change

that is needed and the transition to that change which appears to beginning to take place in the country. I immediately thought it's Kyrie. Right? Like Kyrie is that guy especially considering Kyrie was the guy who on the very or similar call the week before when they voted,

Kyrievin's biggest question, biggest question was, will there be booze there? Which is like the question you ask any time you're invited to a wedding. Will it be open bar? And so it really felt like he wasn't connected to the social justice aspect of it. And then all of a sudden he organizes a call. And he is.

Like what happened between that? And maybe it's because you watch enough. TV. You're on your phone enough and your Twitter feed fills up in your Instagram and suddenly you start to become aware. Or is just Kyrie doing the Kyrie thing, which is all I want to do is resign with the Celtics to the get me out of here as quickly as possible. Right. That's Kyrie Irving. So there's flaws in the messenger. There's flaws in the message. This is Chris Broussard talking about Kyrie Irving and what some people around the NBA are saying about him. There are some around the league, Doug.

Maybe you've heard it as well that feel like Kai Rie just doesn't really want to play. Like he's questioning going forward. You know, that's, I've heard that for a while. I don't think he, I think he will play, but there are those just wonder how much he really wants to play in the future. And that's a good question. And that's one of those, the description that you get, and you get in football, and you get in basketball is, does he love basketball?

and it's interesting because Kyrie Irving, by my estimation, has the best finishing shots in the NBA. You know, Rod Strickland's his godfather. Rod Strickland was the best we had had for 15, 20 years, and Kyrie Irving's probably a better version of it. In no way is it meant to disparage

Kyrie Irving's talent because he is, and you don't just magically have the ability to finish shots around the basket. That is ours. upon hours, upon hours of work in a gym. That's the only way you develop the ability with either hand to make these odd-angled shots. It's really amazing how much work he has to put in and how much thought he has to immediately be able to realize to get these shots off and to make them. Like he has a supreme amount of creativity.

But does he actually like basketball? Look, over the weekend, I think it was Saturday night. The days do run together. I think it's Saturday night where some of these quotes came out and one of his quotes was basically that, you know, he's willing to give it all up. And I tweeted out saying like, look, Pat Tillman gave it all up, right? Now, some people took this extra step and I know there's a difference between giving it all up and ultimate sacrifice. And if you don't understand the two, look up what ultimate sacrifice means. it translates into dying for your cause or dying for your country, which is unfortunately what

happened to Pat Tillman. That wasn't what I said, and it wasn't what I meant. What I simply meant was Pat Tillman had a contract to play in the NFL, and he chose to leave that and go and pursue something that he thought was for the greater good. And I just don't think Kyrie is that guy. Is that me questioning, like, his moral code? No, it's more, I've seen this from Kyrie. Right.

I've seen the, he almost feels like the guy, and I see it because I see a little bit myself, where no matter what your argument is, he can find the counter argument to it. You look up with the sky, and it's clearly blue, and he can say, that's a gray sky. No, it's a gray sky. Your perspective is wrong. Maybe it's your eyes. Maybe it's the way the color translates to your brain. That's a gray sky.

That's who Kyrie Irving is. Yes, he offers counterthought. And yes, in this age of. where we are, we are being told and, you know, frankly, it's right, we should listen more to one another. All right. Maybe it is gray. What do you think? But at some point, you realize the sky is, in fact, blue.

And at some point, you realize that the idea of not going back to work because it will somehow disrupt the push towards social justice, I believe, and most people believe, is, while it's a thought, the best way to achieve what you want is to get as much attention as possible towards your cause and you'll get more attention if you're playing on national TV. Kyrie won't because he's not playing. I do think that a big part of the message getting lost is the messenger. I think that's what happened with Colin Kaepernick. That's what happened. right his message has finally started to be received more by sorry for the word the mainstream but he was such a

flawed messenger he did have the pig socks he did have the castro shirt he did go to seattle and he did have an interview with the seahawks but he did tell them he wanted to be a starter and when they have russell wilson the only thing they want to hear if you're coming in his backup is hey i'm just coming in to learn. I just want to get better. You know? There was the girlfriend who had the meme about Steve Bishotti, a place where

he rightfully and smartly would have been picked up because Greg Roman, his former offense coordinator was there. Like, sometimes the mess, the flaws in the messenger, do cloud the message. And I'm trying as hard as I can to really, really listen to Kyrie's message.

Because I do think that Kyrie, as bright as he is, and as talented he is, as he is, he's a confusing messenger because the messages do have a tendency to change week to week. And you're like, all right, this week, Kyrie wants to play. Next week, he doesn't want to play. Which is it? Just to put a little bow on the Pat Tillman tweet, my thought is this. I know Jim Brown walked away from the NFL.

Obviously, Muhammad Ali, because of his religious beliefs and didn't want to go to war, he walked away from boxing for three years. but in the modern era of sports Pat Tillman's the only guy I can think of that walked away for a cause he believed in. You know? And I just, Kyrie's been a guy who it would not surprise me

if he left the NBA earlier. You know, he didn't play until he's 40 years old. I think that when Kyrie, if he can get another run towards the NBA finals, if he wins the championship, would not be crazy to see him walk away. But look, man, you're the same guy who convinced Kevin Durant to,

come on over from Golden State because you could build something special. Do I really believe that in this time of social justice awareness, you're going to leave a huge platform in the biggest city in our country and great opportunities for this cause when a week ago, all you want to know is would there be booze there? No, I don't believe it. I don't believe it. And it's not because I don't think you believe in the cause. I just think he's a guy who's changed his mind so often.

Is that crazy to think of? I mean, I don't, again, Chris Bristard also said that he's, if we're just talking about COVID or just talking about, you know, health reasons or, you know, scientific reasons why we couldn't go back. Maybe Kyrie's not the most qualified. But he's certainly qualified to speak on, on this topic. And the cause is, it's not just a cause. It's a lifelong experience. It's your parents' experience. It's your grandparents' experience.

your family, your friends, your children, it's not like, it's not a choice. So almost to say it's a cause, it's a cause for anyone who is, that's not their experience. So he's qualified to speak on in every capacity. So the idea that it's Kyrie and he could change his mind or something like that, like he just simply raised a concern. Sometimes headlines start to, you know, become a story of their own, especially in a time right now where we don't have sports. So every headline becomes bigger. From the sound of the call, he just had this conversation with other players, right?

Like, is it a good idea to go back? I don't feel comfortable with what's going on there. And he's not the only player. And while Kyrie may not necessarily want to come back, and that's the macro part of the situation, there are other players in that call who clearly agree with Kyrie who are not thinking about ending their basketball careers. Like, there's an overall anxiety about what's happening in Orlando.

And I think that's fair. And if I was a player, I would be concerned about it too for multiple reasons. And the idea that sports are going to distract from what's happening right now is a legitimate concern. I don't agree with it because I think that having a platform is powerful and also having a platform that isn't necessarily an echo chamber where you have to force people. Like they must hear what you have to say because they want to watch what you do. Like Chris said, black athletes have an incredible.

incredible amount of power and leverage. There's no one else in the world. They're not replaceable. You must listen. And everyone watches sports, right? In a time now where there is no sports, you're going to watch whatever your opinion about what's happening is. So the idea that he's a flawed messenger, I don't agree with because this is not something

he's choosing to do. He is a black man. This is his life. This is his family's experience. His experience is not like a choice to feel the way that he does. I think, well, maybe it's the way and which at least it's been portrayed. Granted, I wasn't on the call.

Right. No, I think that the story has become a story in itself. I don't, I think that the different perspectives about what actually happened on that call are starting to show that it was a conversation that he was having. Like, he's willing to give it all up if he has to, but he may not have to. So if he does decide to continue playing, that doesn't take away from what his original concern was. Listen, I understand that it's an experience that I won't have.

I will and I'm trying to understand more and trying to and it's an interesting you know it's it's the I was trying to relate to my kids how different an experience is you know when you feel like you're being you feel like you're being unfairly judged just based upon how you look right it's like it's not fair it's not right you know and you start to try and relate to people but I think what happens with Kyrie and this happens with a lot of people is you get a little bit off message and if the message is, hey, let's take a breath. And, you know, maybe we agreed to this a little bit too early. And let's, let's take it, let's pause for a second, take a breath and understand the possibility of the distraction, the possibility of the COVID concerns, the possibility that, uh, that things escalate and things back home are more important than just playing basketball. I think, you know, what happens is when he gets into statements. And I believe that it was a quoted from our Chris Haynes that he gave or he said, I'm willing to give it all up.

Right? That's when the eye rolling a little bit starts because it's away from the message of, hey, let's stop, let's pause. Is this really the right way for people to listen? I agree with you. The greatest platform you're ever going to have is playing in the NBA playoffs

on TV when there's limited other options. You're going to be on every night and the NBA has allowed their players which, by the way, the NBA they change owners to governors, right? They don't talk about the players working for the league. They talk about a partnership. The NBA is the most progressive of the professional league.

You're going to have a voice. You're going to have a voice. You're going to have multiple, many opportunities. And by the way, these are the kind of guys that can join us whenever they want and have their message, have their beliefs being shared. You're going to have that more readily available if you play than if you do not. Coming up next, speaking of sports not coming back, Baseball still isn't back.

I think it's coming back. But I think I can speak for the world. I'll do so next in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. This weekend, NASCAR returns to Talladega. First on Saturday, it's Xfinity Series racing at 530 Eastern on FS1,

then Sunday on Fox. Catch the Daico 500 at 3 Eastern. Both races are also on the Foxx. Sports app. Alvin Kamara at the race over the weekend. It was pretty cool. Talladega. So there's limited number of fans at Talladega.

Like, this is the opportunity. It's on Fox. I don't know. I mean, I've never been to a NASCAR race. I've been to a truck race before. And liked it? In Daytona. Yeah, it's very fun.

I mean, going to, I love going to sporting events. Like a baseball game just in the middle of the summers, like, so fun. Yeah. The best. The baseball is, for summer, it's great. And you can take your kids and you don't feel like, you know, and you can have a conversation. Sometimes maybe too common, you've missed some of the game or whatever.

It's a great time. It is. Which brings us to Major League Baseball. We're at a really weird spot. Tony Clark is a former player. By the way, he's a Hooper at University of Arizona as well as baseball player and a good one. And now he's the head of the Players Association. And they basically said, like, look, we're not going to go back and forth anymore.

we're done with counter proposals. Rob Benfraud has the power as the commissioner to tell us what the schedule is and we'll figure it out and we'll show up. We're done negotiating. But we've heard this so many times before. We're not going to have a counterproposal, but here's a proposal which runs counter to what the owners are proposing. And then the owners wouldn't have a counterproposal, but they would have their own proposal which runs counter. let me just say something that I think we all need to say. And you and I both like Major League Baseball.

I actually love Major League Baseball. There's no greater disparity in terms of level of intensity than regular season baseball and postseason baseball. It's awesome. But the two are great and unique into themselves, right? For the summer, baseball just works. You go, you have a beer, you with friends, you have a conversation, you want to much a baseball game. You catch up. You're out a nice park. The park is usually, you know,

they create them so they feel like you're in the old and days. Like, all that stuff works. And then you get to the postseason and everything's tense and important and every pitch matters, right? I think the two actually work together quite well. So this isn't guy telling you baseball doesn't matter. But I've been told for the last decade by baseball guy, hey man, why don't you talk more baseball? Well, you know what? You got an opportunity. opportunity. Nothing else really on. Sure, we can talk NASCAR. We talk about golf. Golf is fun this weekend, especially with the players being miced up. But in terms of major sports, baseball is kicking away a great opportunity. Do the owners have a point that they're losing money with every time

they have a game when there's no fans in the stands and they had to pay any sort of salary, prorated otherwise? Sure, that's a valid point. What hurts their point is they just signed a deal with just, or at least it was announced, was leaked, there's a deal with Turner Sports for part of the postseason package and part of the regular season. They're going to make over $450 million per year, right? So

baseball's doing pretty well. Do the players have a point? Like, yeah, they agreed to a deal and now the owner's like, you've got to take a bigger haircut. That kind of stinks. Now, the should be pointed out that the owners as part of that deal had three different things that had

happen you had to have free travel here and into canada um there had to be no sort of safety measures that had to be taken um and there had to be fans in the stands and all three of those haven't been met so there's some fine print that have the owners can change the deal can rework it like both sides have a point but you know what we don't care no one cares anymore baseball we just don't care they've already decided the safety concerns have been alleviated. Korea's been playing baseball for, I don't know, a month and a half now, right? My poor guy, boogshambi, no sleep, middle of the night, broadcasting games or whatever. Just play baseball.

If it's not about safety and it's only about money, I understand. Money is important, right? But I've been told for a day, talk about baseball. I can't because other things are going on, which usurp them in our bigger drawing cards and people care more. You want to make us care, go play. To the owners, you have a point. You put out all that money. You're losing money every time you open up your doors.

I get it. I get it. The long-term play, you're going to make money. You just want to get back. To the players themselves, I also understand. There's a collective bargaining agreement that's going to expire at the end of the next season, and you don't want to lose now and then lose. I hear you.

But in this age of listening, I'm done listening to baseball. Done. You should be playing 4th of July. You want to be Americana. You want to be, you know, you were the sport that brought us back from 9-11. You found a maid to make it work then

during the scariest time I can remember in my life on Earth. Okay. If you can do it then, you can figure it out now. You absolutely, And you know, 4th July is too soon. No, it's not. No, it's not. Okay, so pitchers only pitch an inning or two innings or whatever.

Go play baseball. Make us remember. Because what I was told was last night, there was a 30 for 30 with McGuire and Sosa, and they didn't talk steroids until the very end of it and made it seem like that wasn't. That's the whole story. That's not a documentary. That's a TV show. It's a propaganda piece.

You want to make us watch you, and there are great young players in baseball. Great. But I can't appreciate them because you guys are nickel and dime at each other to death. Just go play. Baseball. I know where you are. Football? Basketball.

Baseball still does really, really well. And it's going to do well. But you know what? If you want us to care, play. And if you don't, please stop arguing in public because we just, I think we're all done. We're just, we're done. There's Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Cam Newton is continuing to post workout videos to prove that he's healthy and ready to play. He's got another elite player helping him out now. Cam worked out with O'Dell Beckham this weekend, and he showcased the duo's throwing session on his social media accounts. They are obviously at UCLA. You can see the UCLA banners around the stadium, which, as you mentioned earlier, is down the street from us. Yes, UCLA has a beautiful campus and great, great facilities, great athletic facilities.

I feel like Cam Newton is at a place now where he can't win for trying. Like you feel this is kind of useless and not really helping his cause because it's still social media and it's obviously very highly produced. It looks great. It's got a song to it. Colin completely disagrees. He thinks it's great. He thinks he should only post workout videos. He wants to see him working out. He wants to see him throwing. He wants to see this every single day. I personally don't like I don't need proof that you are working out if you're an athlete just like I don't need to see you post your lunch to understand that you ate today right like this this is what athletes do they work out every single day yes now if you want to post workout

videos great you post whatever you want it's it's completely irrelevant to me if you don't post workout videos and all you post is pictures of your garden I'm not going to think that you don't work out I'm just going to think you're really into gardening and that's what you want your social media brand to be. It is completely irrelevant to me. You know that Cam Newton's been working out. Cam Newton is a specimen, and he's coming back from injury, and he wants to continue playing football.

You think he's just, like, sitting around, doing nothing? I think this is great that he's doing this because it does help people, it does remind people that he is, in fact, an NFL quarterback and does want to play NFL football. If he didn't post it again, it wouldn't bother me either way. Cam is dealing with two circumstances, three circumstances, actually. One, for some reason, people have this idea that he doesn't really care about football because he wears scarves and big hats. The scarves thing is weird. Which is absurd to me.

But yeah, okay. He is coming off of injury during a pandemic, so we can't really go around and get evaluated by teams and do team visits. And three, the market is saturated for starting quarterbacks at this point. And for a while, the story was out there that he didn't want to be a backup quarterback. Now he's saying he may take a backup quarterback job or he's just going to wait and get the job that he wants. which he can do. Cam Noon still has a lot of high-level football left to play. It's just when is that going to happen,

and it's going to happen when it's supposed to happen. Right now, there's those three things working against him, and the only legitimate one out of those three is that we're dealing with a pandemic. I haven't heard that doesn't care if he plays football. I haven't heard that one. It's not just does he want to be. The backup mentality is a different mentality to be in a starter. And he is so, because he was a league MVP, went to Super Bowl,

Superstar. It's really hard when you have a young quarterback to have Cam Newton in that building because whether or not he's still that same guy, to fans and to some of the team, he'll still be that same guy. And you can't hurt these guys' confidence. Confidence is such a huge part of performing

as a starting quarterback in the NFL, right? And if you're looking over your shoulder at a dude who looks like an action figure and used to be an MVP, you're like, man, the team doesn't believe in me, the coaches don't believe in me, the fans aren't going to believe me. The second you have a bad game, they call for camp. Nobody wants that.

That hurts your leadership. So that hurts him as a backup through no fault of his own because of his previous success. Some of it is, like, is he, does he really, part of being a backup is, you have to be all about helping the starter. Is he about that? And I don't know. I would guess he's not because he thinks he is a startup. He's not a backup quarterback.

He, when healthy, Cam New, and unless you assume that he's not the same anymore, that there's not a place in the league for him. He is a starting quarterback. Well, okay. Hold on. What is he when he's healthy? Okay, one, can he stay healthy? He hasn't recently. That's a, that's a different conversation.

But if he is healthy, you think that Cam Newton's like next role, the next phase of his career is to be a backup quarterback? No, I think he would, the question is, does he get in that Iverson sort of middle, or Carmelo Anthony? Where he goes and the system that he goes and how they use him is going to be important. Right. Okay. So let's have that conversation for a second. Okay. He's not going to be the guy that runs the ball 15 times a game anymore, right?

Right. Okay. So now he's got to be a backup thrower, which is he can throw, but one, accuracy-wise, was the weakest part of his game. And two, he's had shoulder issues, which brings you to the inability to evaluate, but also will his shoulder hold up? Right. So that's the biggest question is, is he healthy? How healthy is he? What is he?

Like, is he a dropback thrower? If he is, then he's in the bottom 10 starting quarterback of the league. And that's if he can get and stay healthy, which we don't really know. Because the full complement of Cam Newton is absolutely a starter, absolutely. But he's not that guy anymore. This is a different phase of his career because he's been so beaten up because of the way he played. Right. So that's what I'm saying.

The market is saturated right now. Like if he's going to take a position in the league right now, it's going to be a backup role. But someone at some point in this season, because it always happens, not something I'm wishing for, it's just reality. It's going to get injured. Or just stink. And that may be where he ends up and then we'll see what he is at this point in his career. So without the usual offseason program, NFL players are having to create their own workout plans. Matt Ryan has experiences from the lockout in 2011.

And he told Albert Breer that the Falcons have found some positives in work. working outside of the structured schedules that teams are required to follow under normal conditions. He said there's a lot of time in an offseason program where the amount of time you're allowed in the building and on the field is structured through the CBA. So for us getting together on our own, outside of that environment allows us to work at the pace that we need to work at. That part of it has been really beneficial and I think we're going to be better for it. He's limited the size of the groups.

He worked with the two or fewer teammates at a time, and he's tailoring the workouts to the players that were present. So basically he's saying we're getting a lot of one-on-one time. within the team that you wouldn't normally have in a regular off-season program because of the structure of it. I think it's going to be so interesting how teams react to the limited off-season programs and not having the normal training facilities and all that.

Like the veteran teams, I think, are going to benefit greatly. As I said earlier, like rookies and young quarterbacks with new coaches, it's just going to be difficult because you're not having the ability. You're doing lots of classroom work, and that's great, but then you have to get on the field and actually translate that classroom work to actual on the field work. And they're not being able to do that. Whereas an older team that knows how to study and then go practice on their own and implement the things that they're working on through the Zoom calls and watching film,

it's just to me it's going to be such an added advantage to a veteran team. Well, there is part of this, which is all businesses are going to go through. What positives can we take from the pandemic that we will use in the future? and the idea of not having coaches there all the time and, hey, let's just get together and go to a park and throw the football around and then go out and get a cup of coffee and talk afterwards. Like that kind of stuff, that team-building unity.

My question is more offensive linemen, your inability, you know, how many of those guys are able to get to facilities, keep their body, they keep their strength up, the cohesiveness of it. Positions of supreme athleticism, the cornerback, those guys are out there doing work. Defensive lines, you know, they can still, but the interior, I wonder about.

But I do, this is, all businesses are having discussion. Ours, theirs, regular business, marketing sales, what can we take from this? That's actually a positive. Right, this is making our jobs more efficient. So the next season is over and they're looking for their next head coach, while Tom Thibodeau has reportedly been the front runner, former Nets head coach, Kenny Akison, is also being seriously considered. according to Ian Begley of S&Y, Atkinson has legitimate internal support within the NICS organization to be the next head coach and they're particularly interested in the success he's had developing young players.

Nicks have several young players. They have R.J. Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox. That's kind of interesting to go from the Nets to the Nets. I mean, it is really interesting, right? Like the Nets fire him before he ever gets to coach Kyrie and KD in one single game. And the Nicks, who have been an abject disaster, house, bring in Leon Rose to run the thing, and like, you know what, let's get the net just fired. Although, like, Tom, Tom Thibodeau's out there, and he's a guy who, you know, he got the Bulls to a level, and then that fell apart.

Then he rebuilt the Timberwolves, and then that fell apart. We kind of know what he is and how he rolls. It is fascinating that both our relative retreads and recent retreads, and they might get an opportunity. Atkinson, I feel like got a bad deal with the nets. The Nets whole situation this year I felt like it was... I've never felt like this was a good year to evaluate what the Nets are going to become. Like, if you don't have a healthy Kyrie and Kady, what is it this year? Except for like... Stay stable, right?

Like, continue building the culture, developing any young guys you have. But, like, you're not going to be able to evaluate what the Nets are going to become. I don't know if Atkinson was the right guy for the job. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't. But he's not there anymore. What's going to take for the NICs to change is not whoever the next coach is. Well, but the NICs have to change the perception of...

their culture. And last year, not this year, last year, the Nets had what everybody thought was the best culture in the league and he gets some of the responsibility for it. Goet Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie Eric Manjini joins his upcoming next.

He's former head coach in the National Football League several times over. Get his thoughts on Cam Newton and how he's perceived in the league and what good can we take away from not being able to meet in facilities. Find out next in the herd. Sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports

Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsLice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast. Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

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growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast. Learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

A rep, mom, I'm a one. want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Here in the herd. Rick Buecker is going to join us next hour. I'll ask him if we're sure the NBA is going to return to Orlando with this bubble concept,

which, look, I questioned a week and a half ago, but more in terms of quality of play and the rest of the world being open. now Kyrie and Dwight Howard and Avery Bradley questioning whether or not it's the right time to be playing basketball instead of trying, you know, joining this push for social justice. Let's get to that next hour. Joy Taylor alongside. Let's welcome in Eric Mangini, former head coach, the New York Jets, the Cleveland Browns. And of course, you can see him on first things first as well as all of our shows here in the Herd Global Satellite Network. care of Mercedes Ben is the best or nothing.

Eric, I want to start with Cam Newton. Look, there's a video of him, and it's well produced, set to music. I mean, he looks great. Odell Beckham Jr. looks great. But it feels more social media friendly than NFL friendly. If you're an NFL executive or when you're an NFL head coach, you watch it. What do you think of Cam Newton? Well, you're trying to figure out what, what,

is what Cam Newton wants to be. And the talk of him being a backup is hard to imagine. This isn't the video of a backup quarterback. And to be a backup, you've got to be willing to support the starter. You're going to get less reps. And Cam's used to being on the marquee. In addition to that, most backups this past year, we're talking about $3 million for Andy Dalton,

like a million for Brian Hoyer. Is he really going to be comfortable with, with that type of money. And you don't know where he is from an injury perspective. And look, there's nothing he can do about that because of the situation that we're in. But even if you brought him in and even if the shoulders seemed fine, he was working on changing his throwing motion and never really got to see whether that throwing motion was consistently changed and never got to see whether that was going to hold up once there was a lot of

pressure applied, once there's a lot of anxiety and all of. those things that come with big moments, would he revert back to the way that he used to throw or would he be able to maintain the motion that he was working on? So there's a ton of questions. Now, all that being said, he should wait and someone's going to go into camp and not like the quarterback situation they have or someone's going to get hurt and he's going to have a much better opportunity and a lot more leverage. Yeah, I agree that that's the best. And the throwing motion thing is interesting. I talked to an NFL GM and said, I don't even know. he throws the ball consistently.

I didn't like what I saw last year before he shut it down for the year. There's nothing that leads me to believe it's going to be consistent when they play football. I think we, in the media, sometimes get far afield as to what he used to be is not what he is now. And NFL people are trying to figure out what does Cam Newton look like? What is he? He's not a runner anymore. He's never been a true dropback thrower. And the throwing motion is a very big question.

Is that fair? It's the nobody really knows what he will. be in this year and to the future? It's not just knowing what he will be. It's knowing what he's willing to be. And if he can't be a starter, if he isn't physically able to do the things that he used to be able to do or achieve at the level that he used to be able to achieve that, what role is he willing to play?

Is he really going to accept a backup role? And if he is in a back roll, when's the last time that's ever happened for? Now you have less reps. You get less attention meetings. It's a totally different level and type of preparation than what he's used to. So would he be willing to accept that? And I keep going back to how is that throwing motion, that change throwing motion, going to hold up when there's pressure, when let's say he goes through two or three bad games,

Does he revert back to the throwing motion that he had so much success with? And if he does, does that create an injury situation again. Yeah. Listen, we call it game slippage, at least. That's how it was, to me, and, like, in basketball, everybody in the off-season works on, you know, perfecting their form. And then you get in real games, and all of a sudden, you revert back because of the years spent. And muscle memory.

Yeah, muscle memory. You spend shooting a different way. Matt Ryan said, look, there's some good coming from not being facilities, getting together, throwing the football around. What's the bet? What position group, what part of a football team will be most challenged by not having OTAs and not having the actual physical time together in a facility? Well, rookies, for one, are going to be challenged. Any players that are new to a team are going to be challenged.

Any first-year coaching staffs are going to be challenged. We've all been through learning processes or changes when we first go to college or start a job or whatever it is. and there's all those things that you have to do just to feel comfortable in your new environment. You've got to know where the cafeteria is, where your locker is, what your coaches are like, how practice works. There's so many things that these guys don't, they haven't experienced. And now they're going to go into training camp and you're going to try to cram all of that learning that usually takes place over six, eight, ten weeks into a very small amount of time.

and it's going to be hard. It's going to be really hard, especially for, in my mind, young players. Speaking of young players, Tuatung of Ialoa's physical therapist said, miraculous the recovery he's making. I put you in Brian Flores' shoes. You don't have OTAs with him.

It hasn't been the facility yet. How do you proceed with Tua, who you believe is a quarterback of the future, but how do you proceed with him now? It's funny, Doug. I've never had a player who had a medical procedure where the doctor didn't say how well it went and what a great job they've done. So you've got to take that with a grain of salt.

Two is a great example of what I'm talking about. He hasn't been able to be in with the players. The coaches don't really know how well he picks up the system because doing it on the board, doing it in the classroom is totally different. What's it going to be like in the huddle? What are his mechanics like? You can't evaluate any of that. Now, he also hasn't had a pro-offseason program.

So as much as he's been working with his therapist, he's coming off an injury. He hasn't been in a pro program. And now you're potentially putting them right into games. And look at those early games. It's Patriots, Bill's Jacksonville, and then I think it goes either Seattle, San Fran, or San Fran, Seattle. You're talking about a rough early part of the schedule for a young guy in an abbreviated offseason. and it could be extremely detrimental to his confidence if he goes in and gets beat up.

Really quickly, Lamar Jackson is a video post, Lamar Jackson, playing football on a beach, he gets tackled. And to any of us who are old enough, we remember Robert Edwards, who was a star with the Patriots, right? And as a rookie, he goes and plays in a beach football game before the Pro Bowl and blows out his knee never the same. How do you, you got to have a conversation, right, if you're John Harbaugh with Lamar Jackson, don't you?

Yeah, there's a couple things with this. There's social distancing. I mean, not like that, that's real, and obviously that's not happening here. And then you take chances like this, and no one ever anticipates getting injured by a jet ski when you're hanging out with your buddies and having a good time. But you just can't put yourself in these positions. and there are a lot of clauses built into contracts about whether it's playing basketballs, for some guys, it's horseback riding, it's motorcycles, or whatever it is. You have a responsibility to the team to protect yourself as much as you possibly can

so that you're available when the season starts. Oh, man, I just hold my breath. I think the whole league held their breath when he gets, he goes like, no, not the jet. Oh, gee. And then he gets just tackled by a buddy. thankfully, thankfully, he's okay. You're coming out of quarantine, lean, mean, football machine. Eric Mangini, thanks so much for joining us.

Good to see you. All right, great to see you as well. Saw that video. Did you know Robert Edwards? Like, I'm older, so I remember Robert Edwards tearing up his knee in 1998. It was a beach football game. I'm sure it sounded like a good idea at the time, but God, I watched Lamar Jackson. I'm like, please don't get hurt.

I mean, that was scary. There's no other way to put it. Like he meant well, it's not, I don't have a problem with him running around on the beach, but it's just scary. Yes, yes. I don't want anything to happen. Who's the dude who tackles him who lays him out? Like, dude, the guy is going to sign a massive contract soon.

Just, you know, red jersey, red jersey. Nobody touches Lamar. All right, coming up next. In case you did not know, the NBA is still LeBron James' League. Don't believe me. I'll prove it to you next in The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Doug Allieman for Collin. This is The Herd, along with Joy Taylor. We'll get to Herd in one second.

Rick Buecker is going to join us. Did you watch any of the 30 for 30 last night on the McGuire and Sosa? I saw most of it, yeah. Huh? I saw most of it, yes. What did you think? That was my favorite time. baseball in my lifetime. So, I mean, it was

fun to watch it again. And I mean, I don't know. I have mixed feelings about it. Go ahead. It was so fun. It was fun, but it was a ruse. They were on, like, and listen, I do get the idea that baseball was

fun, right? And they're hitting the balls. But, and this will get to our best for last, it's so skewed the stats, so many guys got cut up in the whitewash of it. Plenty of guys who did not juice will never be recognized. And the guys that were juiced, I think rightfully aren't recognized. Like, I just, I watched it. I was in college at the time. And we used to turn on

baseball and watch because these guys were hitting bombs. But we all, like as athletes, we all knew. Like, you look like that guy's. But I mean, they call it an era for a reason, right? Right. But the- Like, it wasn't like Lance Armstrong. Yes, but Lance Armstrong's documentary, the first question they asked, all of those guys was, when was the first time you doped? Whereas that one was, it was, when was the first time you doped, whereas that one was supposed to be a documentary, and they kind of buried it like 45 minutes in. Right, but I'm saying, like, he was one, one guy. Yes.

Like, there were so, it was a whole era of baseball. So do we just remove everything that happened during that time? You can't do it. You can't tell the story of baseball without the steroid era. However you feel about steroids, I don't really feel that strongly about it. It doesn't anger me. I do understand that you can't have it, and then it's going to trickle down into college sports and into high school. because that's the effect that it has when guys are trying to make their career in a sport that is affected by steroids.

I just takes away what the whole idea of sports is, which is I'm better than you, right? Because I've worked harder and I'm better than you. I mean, the guys were good before. They were great before. So, so went from 36 home runs to 66 home runs. Mark McGuire was good. I'm not saying it didn't make them better than the great that they already were. That's the whole point of them doing it.

If it didn't make them better, they didn't take it. I'm just saying you can't disregard an entire. era of the sport. It wasn't limited to McGuire and Sosa weren't the only guys. I'm not saying everyone was doing it, but it was a whole era. Like, we called it an era for a reason. Either remove the entire era, because you can't go back

and investigate everyone. It covered such a span of time that it's impossible to tell the story of baseball without it. To me, you just accept it for what it was. The records are what they were. And then, you know, we move forward and have changed the rules. You actually can. You actually can find out.

I will tell you how, a little bit later on. First, though, let's get to Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Heard Line News. I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind another summer like that, is all I'm saying. It was a good time. So Kevin Stepanski was the Vikings' offensive coordinator last season, and running back Dalvin Cook put up some great numbers. And now that Staphancy's in Cleveland, Kareem Hunt is excited to get a chance to work in that offensive system. They've run a lot of two backs, you know. I've seen a lot of different guys running the ball there.

you know, with Dalvin Cook. So, you know, I see myself just coming in and being a one too. Nick and I just coming in, taking over the game every week. He's running the ball first type of guy out here. And you can tell by Dalvin's stats. Again, I'm really interested to see what the Browns are this year. I completely bought into the Browns last year, which was obviously a mistake. So I don't want to, not that I have Brown stock, but I don't want to bail on them to,

soon. I do think that they are at least trying to establish a culture, which I think is the biggest problem in Cleveland. The division's just not, it's just rough. The Bengals are going to be what they are, right? No expectations for the Bengals, even with Joe Burrow there.

I just don't think that's good. And Joe Mixon and probably A.J. Greenback and their offensive line, you know, is markedly better, but okay. I mean, there's just too much going on now for me to, like, expect anything of, I expect him to have a nice season for a rookie, but I, as much I love Joe Burrell. He's working against a lot in Cincinnati. Then you have

Pittsburgh who's getting Ben Rothesberger back. Whatever you think Ben Rothesberger is going to come back as. He's certainly better than Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges and they were on the verge of making the playoffs last year. And that guy's a big time coach. Right. And then it's the Ravens. So you have to win your division first, right? I understand you wild card situation. One more playoff team this year. I know. I just said that. Okay. Can I give you my issue with the Browns? Yeah. Too many mouths to feed. Yeah. Okay. So you have, so Kareem Hunt is the second back. He comes from being, before he got suspended or whatever, and cut.

He comes from being a star in Kansas City. And then you have Odell Beckham Jr. and Jarvis Slandry. Two stars who want the ball. And remember what happened? Yes, the Vikings offense was good last year. They did run the football a ton. And Stefan Diggs was ticked, right? Because he had two wide receivers that needed the football.

Look, on paper, this thing works. The problem is you have guys that need a volume of. touches in order to feel like they're involved. That's Odell Beckham Jr. That's Jarvis Landry. That's Kareem Hunt. You didn't mention the tight ends. They didn't mention the tight ends.

Look, I think the plan works on paper. I don't know if it works on the... You know what? Maybe that's what it is. I think any time we start describing a team as good on paper, I'm starting to become skeptical of how that works. Games aren't played on paper. They're played inside television. So, right, they're in the TV.

So Mitchell Chubesky will be competing with Nick Foles for the starting job this year, and he said the trade. for Foles gave him extra motivation to go out there and perform. I was kind of pissed off in a good way. I've been motivated ever since. I've been motivated since our season ended last year. I didn't feel like it went the way we wanted to, and we left a lot out there.

But I'm excited for this year. I think it's going to be a good competition because it's a small sample size, I think the advantage goes to me. But at the end of day, it comes down to on-field performance. I think we both know that. The coaches know that and our teammates know that. I'm not a fan of quarterback competitions

because it really just means you don't have a really good quarterback. If you have two quarterbacks, you don't have one. That's the expression. I also don't really love this from Mitchell Shribisky. I get what it is he's saying, but to me, if you need to have someone come in

to threaten your job to be extra motivated, he did say he was already motivated by the end of the season. Look, here's what's working against him, okay? So everything's about who you've worked with before. Okay, so Foles comes in. He works with Matt Nack. Maggie before. He worked with Bill

Laser, who's her offensive coordinator before. And John D. Felipe is a quarterback coach. He worked with in Philadelphia when he won a Super Bowl, and then he was his offense coordinator in Jacksonville. The thing working for him is Foles is like the world's great. He's the opposite of Cam in that. He's totally cool

with being a backup. Right. If that's what you want. If you want to be a starter, be a starter. If you want to be a start, if you want to be backup, backup. So he'll have the complete support of Foles. He's a really good coaching staff. He has total knowledge of it. The problem is that that everybody lost confidence in him last year, and I don't know if you can get it back

simply by being motivated because they brought in a guy who's won a Super Bowl. Well, I mean, it's very simple. You just go out there and win the job. I mean, if you are better, all of those factors aren't going to matter, right? Like, if he's that much convincingly

better than Nick Foles in camp and at the beginning of the season, then all those connections and experiences that Nick Foles has with those guys are not going to matter, because at the end of day, they want to win games. They all want to keep their jobs they want the bears to win. So that's, that's going to be the number one factor in who's going to start or not. If it's close, I'm with you. That's what's going to happen because we've seen both of these guys play and we've seen Nick Foles, whatever, obviously, circumstances were completely

different, but they win a Super Bowl. So, but his Foles has been here, here, here, here, here, 100%. I don't like either, I don't like either of the options, to be honest with you. And I, I like Nick Foles, a considerable amount more than most people do. I just don't see it with a Trubesky and I don't love that you have to have your job threatened in order to be to be in the mode that you need to keep your job finally Ravens fans pretty much all NFL fans held their breath after a video of Lamar Jackson taking a scary fall surface this weekend he was playing football on the beach and was running around dodging defenders and what are you doing he collided with a jet ski and fell into the water he is reportedly fine after the fall

not injured, but this was, that was scary. How about a Jetsky can do with no one in the AFC seem to be able to do, which is tackle Lamar Jackson? This is, look, you have to, I remember Robert Edwards was a young star running back, New England Patriots, 1998. At the Pro Bowl, they had like a sand football game for like rookies versus second year players. He planted his, shredded his knee, was never the same. and anybody knows the history of football is like, dude, somebody's got to tell Lamar. Like, you just, thankfully he's okay.

Yeah. But you got to be smarter. This is when Ben Rothsburger showed up with a motorcycle. Everybody's like, dude, what are you doing with the motorcycle? No helmet? Oh, I'll be fine. We know how that is. Yeah, I mean, the motorcycle is a bit more extreme than some, you know, light football on the beach.

I don't have a problem with him playing football on the beach. You can't just, he's not going to do any physical activity. Like, it's all fine. You just got to be a little careful. That's the only thing. You've got to be a little careful. Football on the beach just gives everybody in the NFL the heby-jeebies because of the Robert Edwards thing.

And like, look, dude, you're Madden NFL MVP, face of the Ravens. He's one of the faces of the league. Yes. It just made me nervous. Just be a little careful. Just be a little careful. That's Joy Taylor with News.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. All right. Let's get to the Herd Global. satellite network and bring in Rick Bueker, who of course works for us here. He writes for Bleacher Report. Buk, what are your sources telling you the reaction was to Kyrie Irving, questioning

whether or not it was the right time to come back and play basketball? There was a certain faction of players in the league who were glad that that conversation was being had, that they felt like they hadn't necessarily been heard or had an opportunity to speak. But there was also a great deal of confusion because Kyrie Irving had the opportunity when this conversation first started about coming back to express questions about should they be playing and whether it was health. Obviously, the timing of this with the death of George Floyd and the rise in the Black Lives Matter movement has changed things. There's far more question about why is Kyrie doing this and where does he really stand in part because he was on board with going and then was told that he wasn't going to be able to go. So this is much like, look, I hate to draw the parallel, but it's a lot like Colin Kaepernick.

Nobody questions the cause. Nobody questions the intentions. but you can't separate the messenger from the message. And when there's been confusion over what the messenger intends in previous situations, it's going to muddy the waters. And this is just a subject for me that is too important to have the message muddied. I agree with you. And also I look at LeBron James and the fact that he organized an original call to get guys back to work.

And I feel like this is still LeBron's league. And then you look at what Patrick Beverly tweeted, which is, hey, with LeBron's playing, we're hooping. That's, you know, we're still in it for the cause for the right reasons. But it does feel like though not everyone is down with LeBron in terms of wanting to play with him, he does kind of lead the league, does he not? Without question. And that leads to another, I don't know,

theory, conspiracy theory, however you want to phrase it. But we know the relationship, the contentious relationship at times between LeBron and Kyrie. The Kyrie has wanted to be seen as being on LeBron's level. So is it possible that Kyrie is raising this simply to be the alternative to LeBron James and LeBron James's position and the ability to say, well, hold on a minute. LeBron may have decided this, but this is what I have to say, or this is where I'd like to go with it. Understood that it's only a theory. But the truth of the matter is that Kyrie's reputation precedes him, and you can't separate the two. Look, I'm not even sure if LeBron, if LeBron took the stance that Kyrie was taking, I'm, it would be more powerful, for sure.

but I don't know that his stand on things because he hasn't necessarily been consistent or he hasn't been clear, that that would be the guy that I would want leading the charge either. And I got me to thinking, like, who would. Who from the NBA would I lean in and listen closely to if they said, you know what, I'm not so sure it's a good idea that we come back and play? And there are a couple of guys. Who's that? Steph Curry is one. Damien Lillard is another. Victor Oladipo is a third. Mike Conley.

And for me, I would listen to Draymond Green because he may have been contentious and he may be controversial, but he's always been direct in what he believes and how he feels. But certainly the first four guys that I mentioned, those are the guys that I would want leading the charge. And for anybody who wants to say, like, don't confuse the message with the messenger, look, that's not the way real life works. Your reputation matters. Your stance on things previously matter if you want people to trust you and follow you and believe ultimately in your credibility. Yeah. Look, I'm just sitting here. I'm trying to listen, trying to not combine the two and trying to continue to evolve.

All right, explain this to me. I don't think the argument actually holds up, really, right? Like your platform is so much bigger when you're playing. And oh, yeah, by the way, by the time they're playing, other sports are going to be going as well. Like baseball is going to be going. Football is going to be close to going. And so if the idea, it's not like it's either the NBA is on or nothing's on.

That's not really accurate. Now, I have questions about the bubble and whether or not it'll be good for the sport. I don't, the rest of the world feels like it's opening up. So that'll be awkward. Additionally, the quality of play, Buk, three months in a hotel, and in the third month, you're deciding who is the champion of the league? I don't know, three months in any, I don't care how nice the hotel is. That does not seem like a smart plan.

I've been saying this from the beginning. We need to reset or recalibrate our expectations of what this is going to be. It's going to be labeled playoff basketball, but it's going to be the kind of playoff basketball you would expect if you were playing the playoffs coming directly out of training camp. We've never seen it before. So I ultimately would expect that this is going to be a rough go. Aside from the fact that you have guys that are going to be performing in very unusual circumstances,

no fans, you don't have your facilities to prepare game to game, et cetera. And so, yes, it is going. But look, there's also just leading the charge to getting back to normalcy that is really important. And so I think it's worth it. It is going to be a hardship on the players. They are going to have the biggest issue. But look, and maybe I'm being selfish as a sports fan, I'd like to see it happen. And this goes back to what Kyrie was suggesting, which is, okay, so not playing.

how does that further your cause? What do you want? If you're going to use that as leverage to improve things, what is it that you want to see improved? I believe that has to be part of the conversation understanding what is it that you're going to get out of this if you don't come back and play. Otherwise, it just seems like, okay, we're making a statement,

but we're making a statement for what? I want to see real results ultimately. and if this can get you that, I'm all four. We're not playing. But you need to tell me what those results are in order for me to fully buy in that it's worth not coming back and playing. Kind of quickly here, Buk, Kenny Atkinson, rumored to be one of the candidates for the New York Knicks job.

You combine him with Tom Thibodeau. Thibbs we've seen before, okay? Tibbs is a guy built up the Bulls and, of course, went to Minnesota, cleaned house, and made them at least a playoff. team, but it wears out its welcome. He wears down these younger players, but he is a fantastic coach. What about Kenny Atkinson? Could a Brooklyn Nets castoff become the next head coach of the Knicks? I just haven't heard a lot of people talking, and I'm surprised by it, because I was a fan of what Kenny Atkinson did last year. And I thought that the way the Nets played this year, particularly

seems to be a hyper-analytics-driven style that didn't always make sense. I was told that that was really that was Kenny's doing. I thought it was more of a management thing, ownership thing, that was driving that. And so I'm not convinced. I have not heard his name attached with that. And what I don't know is exactly what Leon Rose is looking for in his next head coach. But I would be surprised. Tom Thibodeau and Mark Jackson, there's cachet there with the Knicks fans.

And I've been told that that matters. I don't know that the former Nets coach is going to have the same cachet, even though technically he coached in Brooklyn last we saw him. Yeah. I think within the league, the culture they created everyone and the way they played, everybody liked, whereas other names like Mark Jackson would be more like by fans.

I don't know if it would be received the same by the players. The whole thing is really, really, as is the coaching market, which generally all that stuff gets decided in Vegas during Summer League. Now it'll be in Orlando, but only 22 teams down there. What about the other teams that aren't there like the New York Knicks? Well, I would say this very quickly about Kenny. I was surprised at the reaction that I've heard from people around the league. he's not as highly regarded as I thought he was

and as highly regarded as I held him in talking to people around the league. I was surprised by that and that's what gives me reservation when you talk about him potentially being a candidate with New York or Chicago or any of the openings. I'm just, I'm not getting the sense that he's as hot a prospect

as we thought initially when he left the nets. Rick Buecker, you can check him out. Read his work in Bleach's report. Okay, see him on all of our show. including speak for yourself, which follows this one. Buk, great stuff. Whoever was opening the door, look like one of your golden retrievers.

Tell them to stop budding in. Not a golden retriever, but yeah, dog decided to come in halfway through the show. What is it as a pound puppy? What kind of dog is it? Rescue, indeed. What's the dog's name? That would have been beans.

Frank isn't here right now. Franks and beans, Franks and beans. Beans and Franks and beans. Thanks, Pugh. You got it. Something about me. Mary, by the way, in case you're wondering at home, that's a movie I've seen probably

at least 20 times. At least, what's Brett Fav doing here? All right, coming up next. The most unbreakable records in sports history. Part of our best for last. It's next in the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours

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SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black. people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

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learn the hard way and listen now what's up guys this is cliver taylor the fourth and on my podcast the Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her.

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along with Joy Taylor. We're going to have some fun with this one. I don't have the same affinity for McGuire and Sosa. I should, we should. Like Sosa, Sammy Sosa, if he just told the whole story, right? Like, look, this is where I came up. I was, you know, he was a shoe shiner as a,

a little kid came from nothing, and yeah, I use steroids. You know, I use steroids and look what they did. Look what they did for me, for my family, for the Cubs, for baseball. You know, I would say, like, look, that's not the core of what sports is about, but I do get it. The problem with Sosa is he's never owned up to it. Never, you know. He's in Congress. Don't speak English, right?

Afterwards, like here we're how long removed? We're over 20 years removed from it. And there's not like, yeah, I did it. And here's why. And even now it's the, yeah, I did it, but everybody was doing it. Like, that's not actually the point. But I, so I use that and I have to be fair. And I believe that Barry Bonds holding the all-time home run mark is inauthentic.

And so I don't consider him the greatest home-run hitter of all time. And that's my perspective on it. Is that a crazy perspective to have? I don't think it's crazy at all. I just, again, it was called an era for a reason. It wasn't like, you know, you have those three guys who, you know, have this mark of cheating. Roger Clemens as well. There's lots.

I mean, there's lots of guys that have either been suspected of using steroids or have been caught using steroids. And when it was an entire era of baseball, I don't know how you pick and choose what, you think is legitimate or not. Like if you just feel strongly about steroids, that's your prerogative. I do not. I don't, it doesn't make me crazy. Also, I understand the value of, you know,

fair competition and all of that. I also understand that this is a profession and it is entertainment. And that was a really fun summer. So, you know, and it saved baseball. It saved baseball, which is what they talked about in the documentary. Like, it brought back a huge,

amount of fans and excitement for the game. I loved it. And I was just a kid, like, loved it. And we have the pirates in Pittsburgh. So, yeah, I mean, I am not. I am not. I don't know if it's saved. I think it helped baseball. I don't, I do not have the reaction to that, to that era and to what happens. It does not make me angry at all. And I think that Barry Bond should be in the Hall of Fame. And I think you should consider the, the vast scope of how much cheating was going on and how long it went on for. and if you choose to just remove all of those years,

whether there were guys that weren't cheating or not, then that's fine. But I don't know how you tell the story of baseball without the steroid era. You can, but you also look, for bonds and for Clemens, you get to keep the money. You get to keep, you know, we can't take away all that fame that you had. Even the

awards that you won. What you lose is immortality in the Hall of Fame, and I believe, asteris by your record. And to anyone who says Clemens and bonds were Hall of Famers before, that's fair, okay? But try that with a teacher. Like, hey, listen,

I was getting an A and yeah, the last couple tests I might have cheated on, but the first four tests, I got all A's on, right? So what's the big deal? I'm an A student. Like, that doesn't really work. So, and look, you can go back and find out who was using

because they all have medical records. You have to submit to a physical before every season and there's blood taken and those still exist. They're still out there. They're still out there, somewhere and if you want to tell me that you're not cheating, show me the records because the pop

as being positive for steroids. I believe there's a greater percentage of players that weren't using them than that were. They've remained kind of silent and there's a good portion of players that never made it because these guys not only were great, but they stayed in the league longer because they were on these substances. Anyway,

my point is, I still believe that Henry Aaron is the rightful home run king, which brings me to our best for last. It's almost the end of the show, but that doesn't mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind to the very last segment. It's time for best for last. Yeah, McGuire hits 70, then Barry Bond's hit 73.

Those records have never been challenged, but they're not the rightful records. I'll tell you what are the rightful records. The top 10 greatest records in all of sports. Ready? Yes. Let's get to number 10. Michael Phelps, 23 career gold medals. 23.

He's the most decorated athlete in Olympic's history. 28 career medals. 23. The next most is nine. Nine. Nine gold medals. He has 2.5 times more gold medals than anybody else. No one's ever breaking me.

No one's breaking. Number nine. Jerry Rice has 197 career receiving touchdowns. He also holds the record for receptions, yards, and touchdowns. Now, listen, I'm willing to believe that we throw the football more now than we did during

that era. But I don't think any wide receiver will have the longevity will be a focal point of two great offenses, not just Niners, but also the Raiders when they went to the Super Bowl. And I don't, because the money is so great now, I don't know if players' careers will last as long as Jerry Rice. Larry Fitzgerald is the active leader with 77 touchdown receptions.

Jerry Rice has 197. There's the disparity. Fitz would have to play until he's 47 at this pace to catch Jerry Rice. Number eight. Sy Young, right? 511 career wins. I don't think we'll ever have a 300 game winner anymore, let alone a 500-game winner anymore, let alone a 500 game winner.

96 more than anybody in MLB history. Greg Maddox, also not on steroids in that era, 355 wins. That's crazy. Number seven. Jack. I don't think Tiger's catching Jack. He's three behind.

I don't think he's catching him. He's got 18. 18. Brooks has been dominant in majors. He has four. Rory, four. Nobody's catching. Number six. Wayne Gretzky, career point total 2,857.

936 more points in hockey than Yarmir Yager, who was second. Yarmir Yager played up until it felt like last year. If you don't count his 894 goals, he still has the most points in NHL history. Number five, nobody's breaking Cal Ripkins' Iron Man streak. 2,632 consecutive games. played. Okay. I mean, Calhard can't go a week without taking a day off. Kidding, he'll be back tomorrow. Calhriken Jr.'s Iron Man streak, not being broken. Number four, stick with baseball. Joe DiMaggio, 56 game hitting streak. Okay, that was in 1941. It broke a record by Willie

Keeler 46 in 1897. Nobody's breaking Joe D. Nobody's breaking Joe D. Number three, Will Chamberlain. Not that record. The 100-point record. Kobe scored 81 with a three-point line. Couldn't get within 19, got within 19 points. Number two, Barry Sanders, 37 rush touchdowns in one year. Keep in mind, they count bowl games now. They play more games now than they did then, and no one's come close, except for Monty Ball, but he played two more games.

And number one, Henry Aaron is your rightful home run king. He never hit more than 47 in the season. Major League Baseball actually only played 154 games his first eight years. So he had less games. They had to lower the mound. And Bonds has only seven more home runs, even though he played in a park and used park built for him. Anyway, all right, that's the best for last. Collins back tomorrow.

She's Joy Taylor. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is The Hurt. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happens. happen. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the

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