The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Lamar Jackson, Terrell Owens, Ezekiel Elliott, & the NFl helmet rule

Episode Date: August 3, 2018

Colin discusses Baltimore Ravens QB Lamar Jackson's performance on Thursday, how Hall of Fame WR Terrell Owens will be remembered, why the Dallas Cowboys should be concerned about RB Ezekiel Elliott, and his thoughts on the NFL's new helmet rule. Guests include Greg Cosell, Eric Mangini, and Jason McIntyre. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Joy Taylor's joining me on a Friday. All fired up. We are officially in football. season. I can talk football now for six months every single day. And I love it, Joy. And I know your brother playing the NFL. You know your football college of pro. There's a great time for us right now. It is. Good morning. Jason's actually, he's in Canton right now for a Hall of Fame weekend. I'll be joining Shannon. That'll be great. So let me start with this. I've been saying it's about Lamar Jackson. I rushed home to watch him. Just like I used to rush home to watch Tim Tebow.

And I've said, Lamar Jackson's a more talented version of Tim Tebow. And all he gets pushback. All I get is pushback. And I say, no, no, no, you watch what's going to happen. Baltimore and Denver were proud franchises with Super Bowls and getting very frustrated with their head coach on the hot seat. Both guys were overdrafted. Both guys are projects, not prospect. Tim Tebow was a project. He was never a prospect. Lamar Jackson's a project. He's not Sam Darnold. He's not Josh Rose. And you watched them last night. He's not even close. He's not even close. He's not even close. First of all, first two times he gets the ball, he scrambles. Third one, hands off, three and out. Next time he gets the ball, second drive, scrambles. Took him until a sixth play until he threw a pass.

By the way, it was 0 for three to the left side, three for three to the right side. So right now he's way more comfortable throwing to one side of the field and running to the other side of the field. There was way more bad than good. He's not close to RG3 at this point. He's not. Forget Flacco. RG3 is not as good as Flacco. Lamar's not even close to RG3. And it won't. It doesn't matter. It never mattered with Tebow. People forget how bad Tebow was. Tebow was terrible. He was on fourth string in Denver. They still put him in first year. Why? Because he was fun. He was new. It's a proud fan base. The coach was on the hot seat. They tried something new. They went into a losing streak and let's put Tebow out there and Tebow was terrible. By the way, Tebow was terrible a second year. But it didn't matter because you were crazy in love with a guy. Fan is short for. fanatic. It's like Donald Trump. If you like Donald Trump, his approval rating right now. It's like 50%. I mean, it's a lie a day. It doesn't matter. People like him. If you love somebody, your kids, your president, your backup quarterback, you don't care about data.

You don't care about it. When Tim Tebow was tearing up the world, he liked Lamar was a first round pick. I was like, he's not ready to play quarterback in the NFL. Saturday Night Live did a skit. funniest thing Saturday Night Live's ever done that's related to sports. And it was the most honest and accurate thing ever done in the history of Saturday Night Live in sports. Do you remember this? Here's the thing, okay? If we're going to keep doing this, you guys got to meet me halfway out there. I mean, let's face it, it's not a good week.

If every week I, the son of God, have to come in, drop everything and bail out the Denver Broncos in the fourth quarter, okay? I'm a busy guy. So, wait, wait, you're only helping in the fourth quarter? Yeah, yeah. Have you watched the game film, Tim, of the first half? I mean, come on, three for 16. You know, I can throw better, and I'm 2010 years old, huh? Oh, God, Tebow was awful.

And it didn't matter. Matt Prater, the kicker, and the defense was winning games. It didn't matter. You didn't like the coach. You didn't like the starter. You wanted something new, flashy, and fun. Listen, Lamar Jackson, with the best offensive coach, arguably in college football, as a three-year starter,

completed less than 60% of his throws last year. That is a three-year starter with Bob. Batrino in five of his games last year as a three-year starter with Bobby Petrino, an NFL coach coaching in college. In five of his games, he completed 15 passes or less as a three-year starter in college with Bobby Petrino, not even in the best conference in the country, six times he rushed for as many or more touchdowns than he passed for in a game. Lamar Jackson's not ready to play in the NFL as the starting quarterback.

he's not as good as RG3. He's not close. He looked nervous. The best moments were when he ran, just like college. He's a project. He's not a prospect. He was overdrafted. He was a second or a third round guy that he'd give a year and a half to two years of

development. And then I think he can, you know, become something. And everybody's going, Colin, that's not fair. It's totally fair. Folks, think about how Big Tebow got without Twitter, without Instagram. I checked on Twitter last night. Lamar was pretty awful. And all I heard was, we got a new starting quarterback in the NFL.

Welcome to 2018. He's not even close to RG3. Nobody was tweeting about RG3 last night. In fact, I call RG3 RJ7. He's on like his seventh version of RG3. Look at Baltimore schedule. Now, September, they're going to win some football games, but you get into that October and November,

and I see the Saints and Carol. Lina, Pittsburgh, and oh, at Tennessee. November. Here comes Lamar. And by the way, what's funny about this, stats didn't matter with Tebow. They didn't matter. He'd be six for 17. Back then there was email.

I'd have 5,000 emails. He is the next Tom Brady. People were comparing him to like Brady, and I'm like, he's six for 17. Denver with Tebow and Lamar Jackson with Baltimore have a lot in common. You got a coach in a hot seat. You got huge rivals in your division pulling away at the time from the Broncos, pulling away now from Baltimore. A popular college quarterback gets overdrafted.

I mean, Tim Tebow was really overdrafted. Lamar Jackson was slightly overdrafted. You have a fan base getting restless. And here you have a young quarterback who runs right now better than he throws. And he's new, flashy, and fun, and he's hope. he is hope and now add Twitter and stir

Lamar Ball is what we may be calling him by November things now just don't make sense stats don't matter data doesn't matter we like who we like and now it's just amplified

adding social media to it the tsunamis and the avalanches just pray that you never end up at the bottom of the mountain with an avalanche or a tsunami on Twitter. Of course Lamar's not close. I've never thought he was close. That's why I keep calling him a project. I never call him a prospect. Sam Donald's a prospect.

Okay, Baker Mayfield's a prospect. They'll play this year and they'll be able to move the chains. They'll be able to go. No, no. This is a project. This kid should not play for a year and a half. Maybe next year, end of the year, put him in, have some fun. But, man, last night.

As predicted, on Twitter, I'm already seeing, yeah, man. I'm like, are you watching this game? Are you, I mean, Joy, let me just ask you, did he look like he was ready to start in the NFL? No, he looked very raw. Raw is what sushi is. You know what I didn't like in the, I think it was in the third quarter where he went for that run

that everyone's flipping out about? It really looked like RG3. I'm like, slide, slide. Yeah, he got popped. Lamar got popped his first time he went for a run. I don't want to see another RG3 situation. But unfortunately, that's who's mentoring him there. All right.

Okay, this weekend, they're calling it the most talented Hall of Fame class ever. Randy Moss, Brian Erlacker, Terrell Owens, and Ray Lewis, just four of them. They're saying it's the greatest, Hall of Fame class ever. Of course, T.O. is not going to show up. Never forget this about movies. A good, solid movie can be ruined by a bad ending. And, by the way, a good solid movie can be called Excellent with a Great Ending, Usual Suspects.

This is a good movie. Great ending. People now say, great movie. Not really. Great ending. T.O. and Randy Moss had a ton in common. They really did. They both played about 218 games. They both played for five teams. They're receiving yards, receiving touchdowns, teams, almost identical. They both came with some baggage. They were both from the rural South. They both went to smaller colleges than you think their talent would land them in. But Randy Moss this weekend and today, you watched them last night feel so much bigger than T.O. Because the lasting image of Randy Moss will be this weekend in Canton, Ohio, humbled, emotional, perhaps crying, thanking people. And T.O. will look small and petty and immature somewhere in Chattanooga. I'm sure it will be a charming festivity, but pouting and petty. America forgives often, but to be forgiving, you have to be willing to have some humility. Randy Moss has all sorts of baggage.

T.O. has all sorts of baggage. They were both remarkable talents, same part of the country, same stats mostly across the board. But Randy Moss this weekend is joining another team. We'll cry as he does and will let us sell. celebrate with him. T.O. will be holding out. Yep. A good movie can be ruined by a bad ending. And as Randy Moss steps to the podium and speaks this weekend and his son speaks for him, he will look bigger than ever and will forget the times he drove us absolutely crazy. And we'll think about T.O. and his pettiness. And he will never look smaller when compared.

to Randy Moss. It is great to have you in. Something that I just saw this morning and a divorce is coming in sports and it's not here yet but the arguments are starting and both parties, although they would never

admit it, are coming to a real realization. It includes the Dallas Cowboys. A divorce is coming soon. I'm not talking about the death thing. That divorce has already happened. There's another one around the corner. That's coming up. All right, I saw this story. And a lot of people are going to think it's nothing, but it's something. The Cowboys Ezekiel Elliott facing a million dollar lawsuit over a January 2017 car crash. Okay, Ezekiel Elliott at the time said,

no big deal. I've been in bigger collisions, but Ezekiel Elias now has a list. And that's the key word here. He now has a list. Initially, he called out coaches at Ohio State. Then there was the Mardi Gras situation, the inappropriate situation, Mardi Gras with a woman. But now it's not just one in college and one in the NFL. That would be fine five or six years in. Kids are young. I understand that. But now we've got the incident at Mardi Gras. We've got an allegation of assault at a nightclub. He got into a fight. The assault against the woman allegation, a car crash lawsuit pulled over for going 100 miles an hour. Folks were two years in.

We haven't started year three yet. He's now list guy. By the way, Johnny Mansell was incident guy, then he became list guy. He now plays in Montreal. James Winston was incident guy and became list guy. Where is James Winston? Suspended. I've been tough on James Winston.

I've been tough on Johnny Manzell because they were incident. You can have an incident or two. But when you become list guy, you're in trouble. Rick Patino had an incident or two. Rick Patino then became list guy. Oh, Kentucky basketball scandal. Oh, a fair with his trainer's wife on the staff. Oh, a brothel on campus.

Then he's a list guy. Coaches that end up list guys end up out of jobs. Hopefully Urban Meyer isn't becoming a list guy. Okay, once you become a list guy, you've got an expiration date. OBJ is now becoming a list guy. You will not have a relationship with Ezekiel Elliott in Dallas in 10 years. You won't have it in five or six years. Des Bryant became a list guy, incident in college, couple in the NFL,

and another outburst. How's Des Bryant doing? How's James Winston doing? How's Johnny Mansell doing? How's Rick Patino doing? By the way, how's Urban Meyer doing? It doesn't seem like a big deal. It's just a million-dollar lawsuit.

No, no, no, no, no. Two years in, I count five, maybe six incidents. Once you compile incidents, one after the other, you become list guy. Ohio State coaches calls them out. Domestic violence, allegations, Florida and Ohio, throwing a punch at a nightclub, removing a woman's top at a St. Patrick's Day party. now a lawsuit and it can end well

never does list guy never ends well you don't think it's a big deal we're two years in we are two years in haven't even started year three yet and we got another story

here's joy Taylor with the news turn on the news this is the herd line news so last year for Tom Brady's 40th birthday the Patriots brought in five goats to celebrate each of Brady's Super Bowl wins. We had a goat in here a couple weeks ago. It's adorable.

So this year, the Patriots had to get a little more creative for his 41st birthday. By the way, happy birthday, Tom Brady. So at camp, they brought in a 1,200 pounds cake. The cake can serve as many as 8,000 people. Giant 12. There you go. It's red velvet and vanilla.

Red velvet is my favorite. They're digging in. Look at that. What bakery. I think you'd have to build this in sections I'm taking it. It's, uh... Is that icing or paint? Montilio's baking company.

Uh, is it icing or paint? Do you like cake? You know, I know it's awful for me, but even sheet cake, and I know it's just awful. I mean, if you eat sheetcake every day for a month, you look like a meth addict. It's terrible for you. Well, I don't know. I'm just telling you, I can't stop eating. sheet cake.

Where are you getting it? Well, whenever I go to parties, this place has a sheetcake about once every two weeks. I mean, I love cake, but every day, where you're doing like a supersized-me documentary? Anyway, happy birthday to Tom Brady. It's very impressive. So, you just mentioned Des Bryant and the Cowboys. They seem confident they made the right decision by parting ways with him. The latest comments come from Y-Recevers coach, Sanjay Lal, who was asked to the Cowboys

to have anyone who can go up and get a ball the way that Bryant did. during his time with the team. His response indicates he believes his status is better off without Des. He said, I would think so. I would rather have down the field guys that go run down a ball and score than live in the back shoulder world.

You know what, but I will say this. Aaron Rogers really created the back shoulder. And everybody now is like, ah, I love the back shoulder throw. You do realize Aaron Rogers created it and mostly has been the master of it. there's certain things that, you know, Gordon Ramsey, the chef can do, that the guy at Applebee's can't. Like, let's not do back shoulder throws because Aaron Rogers does back.

LeBron does a lot of stuff nobody else can do too. So I've always thought the back shoulder thing. Yes, if you have a quarterback that's great and a receiver who puts in the time is a grown, because that's a trust throw. Right. That is a, I don't trust Des Bryant. That's exactly why I think it kind of fell apart. because Dak and Des never seemed to be on that wavelength

than Tony Romo and Des were. That's exactly right, Joey. And Des didn't want to reinvent himself with Dak Prescott. It was almost like he was holding on to, just like that guy that's always bragging about how great he was in high school. Like, we don't care anymore, bro. Evolve. That's kind of what happened here.

And it seems like every bridge is burnt there in Dallas with Des, except for Jerry Jones. Because that's just how Jerry is. But it seems like they made the right decision. Finally, LeBron hasn't played a single minute as a Laker. But his mural in L.A. is getting the royal treatment. We've talked a lot about murals on this show here in L.A. Gustavo Zermainio Jr. updated the mural with LeBron's jersey.

This keeps getting pieces added to it. Some more Laker icons were added. Where is this at in Los Angeles? This is on Melrose. Okay. So if you want to go drive by and take a peek. This is great. Chick-Hern.

There's Shaq. There's Magic. There's Wilt over to the right. Jerry West. This is really well done. It really is. It really is well done. I like it.

I just think the Lakers fans are being so funny about LeBron. It's really amusing. Folks, in October. I mean, this is like the most accepted one, and it's just because it depicts LeBron in some sort of like humble way. This is more celebratory of the Laker franchise as a whole. Yes. The other one is, hey, here's the king,

and it was just too much too soon for people. The king of L.A. was, look, I can't pretend. It's ridiculous. that it's too much too soon for you. Who are you? What have you been the past four years? You've been the laughing stock of the league. You're supposed to be the greatest franchise.

It is. The cornerstone franchise of the NBA, you've not won more than 35 games and the greatest player currently in the league. Who wants to play for you? Who does nothing but go to finals decides, chooses to come and play for you. And you're just so bothered

at the notion that he thinks he might be good enough. He didn't even do it. Someone else is celebrating him. Listen, I like millennials, because I'm around kids all the time. You could be a millennial. I like millennials. I'm on the border. Okay, the downside to millennials is they don't like sports.

They like players. They don't care about the Lakers. They care about Kobe. But you know what that is? It's because back in the day, when I was growing up, you couldn't watch just any team on TV. You watched the team that was in your city or you watch the biggest franchises,

like the Cowboys and the Packers and the Steelers and the Lakers and the Celtics and the Bulls. So now you can watch anybody. So it's very easy for you to live in Miami and be a fan of Russell Westport because you can order the package and watch everyone. So that's just. the evolution of sports.

I have no problem with that. The evolution of sports is younger fans care about the player more than the team, and so when somebody comes to L.A. and threatens Kobe, even though it'll make the Lakers way better, there's going to be young fans that freak out. And then you've got to throw social media in it, too.

People feel like they have more access to individual players. Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Okay. So it's time to say, nice job NFL and oh here we go again NFL in the same segment so let's start with the nice job NFL

so the last kind of like 10 12 years we didn't know what a catch was we didn't know what in the world the catch was and very early in last night's game we had a situation that we've been living in the last 10 to 12 to 15 years and here's what happened and here's the call You're really looking, does he have control before the ball hits the ground? That's the whole point of this play. And it looks like you can make an argument either way. Can you say he definitively does not have control is the question? And in that case, you've got to go stand.

And what about hitting the ground, ball hitting the ground? If he has control first, he kept control after hit the ground, he's good. Whatever the official ruled on the field, if it's not absolutely clear and obvious that he made a mistake, go with the ruling on the field. put the ball in play and move on. Well, remember, the ruling on the field is a catch. After reviewing the play, the ruling on the field stands. There we go.

First down. Slow clap, NFL. Congratulations. That's a catch. Secure the ball. Knee down. I don't care about the ground. That's a catch.

For the last 12 years, this is what the NFL did. Now, my staff hates when I do this. But for the last 12 years, here's my phone. I've got possession of my phone. I've got possession. If my phone hit this table, take a solo shot on me. The NFL said that Collins lost possession. Well, I didn't lose possession.

The phone's right here. If it hit the table, hit the field, I lost possession. No, this is losing possession. Okay. So the NFL for last night, the NFL said, Collins got his phone. Oh, it hit the grip. Well, Colin still got his phone. Even if it moves in my hand a little bit, I'm not losing possession, right?

I know everybody hates this. But if I have my phone and it hits this and I still have, even if it jiggles a little bit, I've got possession of my phone. The NFL for 12 years, that was Terry McCauley, former NFL ref. They finally figured out. Now remember, they cleaned this up in the Super Bowl last year. There were two huge plays in last year's Super Bowl. And this is when the NFL really got it right.

They cleaned it up in the Super Bowl. Here's the first one, where the ball is. juggled but it is called and it should be a super it's called a catch because even though the ball wiggles he has possession he's got the bot to catch foot down foot down now the ball placement moves he never loses possession that's the right call they did it earlier or later i forget if it was before after zach ertz here's the one over the middle this is also the right call touchdown He has the ball. He has feet down.

He has established. That's a touchdown. It should be. I don't care that the ball hits the ground. I don't want different rules at the goal line than at the 24-yard line. So they started cleaning it up last year. And, I mean, America does this occasionally, Joy. America does this.

They lose their minds and they try to convince us of something that's good is bad. We did it with prohibition. You could drink in America. you could go to a local bar and have a gin. And then America said, whoa, prohibition. You can't drink alcohol. And we had people making bourbon in their bathtub. And then people finally went in America.

Wait a minute. What's wrong with people going out and having a shot of whiskey at a bar? That's what prohibition was. Obviously, it's okay to go down to a local watering hole, a pub, and have a beer with a friend. It's good, social lubrication. It's wonderful. Every neighborhood should have a nice pub. But for a while, America said, can't have pubs.

beer is bad and people started making gin in their bathtubs and then america figured it out and went what are we doing this is crazy this is nonsense that's what the NFL did here's a catch no wait no wait it hit the ground you you wiggle you gilly last night they hopefully figured it out okay now okay here's the bad news joy there's never a day with just good news here's the new confusing rule So we got the catch rule apparently figured out. The new rule that is going to be controversial, it is called the helmet rule and let me read it to you. NFL owners in May approved the new rule, the helmet rule, which states it is a foul of a player lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent. It applies to all players all the time in the field.

It wants to be the leader of the NFL in bucking the trend on some of the violent stuff of football, okay? So we saw this last night. We got some tape on this, I believe. Oh, boy, here's our new catch rule headache. It's called the helmet rule. You almost have to be a contortionist to avoid this. Yeah, but I think if you look at the verbi rule, I don't see this player lowering his head to initiate contact with an opponent.

It looks like he's trying to drive his shoulder. He's got his head out in front. It's up a little bit. I think this is just not a foul. What they've been told to do is just throw. In the preseason, just throw. They're going to take a library of plays and try and hopefully by the time we get to Philadelphia. Week one, they'll have a really good understanding of what they want as a foul

and what it is. Okay, this is the NFL's latest mess. This is going to be for the next 10 years until they clean it up a real mess. Players are confused. Riffs are confused. Terry McCauley is saying a former NFL ref. They're just kind of kind of figure it out during the preseason, get a library, a catalog of hits, sit down for a week or two and go, okay, that was a bad call. That's a good call. That's a bad call. You know what this reminds me? of and this is the reality of what we're seeing here. When any time you're changing something and we are watching it live, you see the warts. Right now in the NFL with a helmet rule, you as a consumer of fan are seeing how the sausage is made.

It's ugly. This is what we've had post 9-11 with airport security. You've watched them live as you stand in line into the airport, change the rules. Shoes on, shoes off. TSA, now they have something called clear. If I take my son, I don't even go through security. I go to this little door on the left with a plastic shield. Can I have shampoo?

Yeah, if it's this big. What if it's that big? Not sure if it's that big. Can't have water. I know that for sure. Unless it's in a small tube. What about my belt? Well, you've got clear.

You can get through. TSA, absolutely fine. How old is my son? 12? He goes here. My son's 14. He goes there. I ever stood in line in an airport and thought, like NFL rest, TSA people?

Is this a full-time job? This should be a full-time job. I'm confused. I'm at an airport. But that's what's happening with airport security. You're watching it live. That's why lines are so long. That's why there's confusion.

That's why there's frustration. You're watching them correct it with new data, new fears, new threats, new technology. You're watching it live. And you're seeing the warts. And the helmet rule is similarly, you're seeing how the sausages made. They don't even know. Players confused. Rebs are confused.

the announcers, Al Michaels, and Chris Collinsworth are confused. I think they'll figure it out. Well, it's just frustrating because it's all, like you said, it's always changing, but also these are huge fines and can get you suspended. And they can change the course of a game because you're getting a penalty in the middle of the game. They can't call in and say, oh, well, you know, it wasn't really that. Yeah. Coming up next, one of my favorite guys had him on yesterday's in town for two days.

Greg CoSell, some thoughts on Lamar Jackson last night. He's got an interesting piece of tape or two on Deshawn Watson. Remember, they open up with New England, the Houston Texans do. That's right around the corner. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Welcome back, Greg CoSell. We only get them on the couch a couple times a year, so we keep him in town yesterday, last hour, this today, first hour. NFL films.

40 years. You're the last of a dying breed. One company, 40 years. Yeah, I'm starting my 39th NFL season. You just made me feel old, Colin. I'm sorry. That's probably because I am. Well, not that old.

You stayed on the cutting edge of this stuff. So Lamar Jackson's the cutting edge of quarterbacks. Obviously, he's a kid that even with Bobby Vitrino, many games last year, six games at Louisville. He ran for as many or more touchdowns than he passed for, despite the fact he's got a pretty good whip on him, a pretty good arm on him. Didn't play well last night. Didn't shock me. Should Raven fans be concerned? No.

And I think you have to put this in a much bigger context. Okay. I think you have to put this in the context of how the NFL game is changing, because what you're seeing now in the NFL game is a lot more shotgun, a lot more misdirection, a lot more deception elements, a lot more influence elements on the defense that make it more and more difficult for the defense to be able to react. It puts a lot of stress on the linebackers, on safeties.

You know this you're a big college football fan. That's really where the game is going offensively. And I think someone like Lamar Jackson, yes, will it take time, of course. But when you do a lot of this in the backfield and make it difficult for the defense, you define the reeds and the throws much more easily for the quarterback. And that will help someone like Lamar Jackson as he develops. By the way, throws better to the right than he does to the left. You know, I've compared him.

I think he's a much better prospect than Tim Tebow. But I said Baltimore and Denver are proud franchises. The coaches are on the hot seat. People are getting restless. and both these guys run, and even though their stats and data won't blow you away, you're going to have these kind of plays where, like, Lamar Jackson runs last night, and I'm like, oh, that's exciting. I mean, as a consumer, I'm like, oh, I like watching that.

I wouldn't want to build my team around a running quarterback, but every time we have one in the league, I run home to make sure I watch him. Let me ask you this. Lamar Jackson, Michael Vick. I think Michael's... What was the difference coming out? Well, it was a different era. I mean, Michael was brand new.

I watched Lamar and I think I've seen parts of this. I think Michael was a better thrower, in my opinion. Yeah, I would agree with that. But I think, as I said, the changing NFL game makes it such that quarterbacks like Lamar Jackson can be a lot more efficient earlier in their career. Yeah. And by the way, the coaches now know how to coach quarterbacks who do that. Michael came into the league and it was an experiment. Without question.

Yeah. Okay. So Bill O'Brien, you know, Bill O'Brien similarly has Deshaun Watson. I always used the stat. Deshawn Watson, I read this, won the state high jump championship in Georgia as either an eighth or a ninth grader. He's a remarkable athlete. Right. Georgia's got a million division one athlete. He's like an eighth grader or a ninth grader who won the state high jump championship.

So you've got some tape on what Bill O'Brien did to use some of his gifts but still have him in the pocket. when Tom Savage was the starting quarterback, then when Deshaun Watson came. They put him in the shotgun. They did all this misdirection, backfield action, and you put three wide receivers on the field on first down, but did you still have a run game? You force the defense to bring an extra player in the box because the run game still exists as a major weapon, and you get a single high safety. And that's what the play shows.

This is against New England that we're showing you, and they play New England week one this year. So let's go back last year and look at this play, okay? This was his second NFL star. This was a touchdown passed to Ellington. Okay? So just what I said. What do you get? You get the three wide receiver look.

You get cover three. It's his own concept, the single high safety. You get the slot receiver running the seam route. So what's the quarterback's responsibility here? The quarterback's responsibility is to control and manipulate the single high safety. This is outstanding quarterbacking for a quarterback making his second NFL start. Watson moved the single high safety, so we had the clean window throw to the slot receiver versus cover three where he knew that he'd have an outside leverage player and that the window

was there and the throw was there. And you can see it from this angle really well that he looks to his left to move the safety. But this is what you're getting, Colin, in the NFL now. You're getting three wide receiver looks. As I said, this was first in 10. So you get the run game element. You see how the second level defenders react to the run, and then you get defined throws for the quarterback, so the progression reading is not as sophisticated or detailed as it was 15, 20 years ago. It's easier mentally. Now, let me just say, I consider Deshawn Watson, and I've been on this now for two years. I consider him a significantly better prospect than Lamar Jackson.

He's a better thrower than Lamar Jackson. No question. I don't even think of Deshawn Watson as. anything other than an athletic pocket thrower. I think he's a huge talent. He does not use his athletic ability as a crutch. He does not just run. Exactly. Correct.

He's a better thrower. But now we're talking offensive philosophy and the approach of football to maximize the abilities of your quarterback. Yeah, I think we'll look back in 10 years and we'll not believe that somebody drafted Mitch Trubisky over Deshaun Watson. I said that before the draft. But Trubisky is going to be in a similar situation with the offense that they're going to run in Chicago.

Yes. By the way, they do that RPO stuff with Trubisky. Right. People forget. Trubisky, by the way, has got all wiggle in him. And by the way, Trubisky needs that wiggle because he's not a great thrower by any stretch. He's not. Okay.

So here's another interesting story. So Cam now comes in, similarly, a lot of athlete, lot of running. But Cam's got a cannon for an arm. He is not a precision thrower. It's always been a nine knock. I call him roller coaster cam. But it's interesting. They bring in Norv Turner now.

This is fascinating because Norv wants precision. And Norm generally takes quarterbacks and their completion percentage goes up immediately. What transpires here to you? Because Norv teaches efficiency. Now, the offense that Cam ran before was philosophically the same. It's the old Don Correel offense. That's where Norve cut his teeth as well under Ernie Sanpici. Ernie Sanpici was with Don Correel back with the Chargers.

So you have continuity there. But what Norv is going to try to get Cam to do is take the easy throws. That's something Cam has not done well, Colin. That's why his completion percentage has not been high because he tries to make a lot of difficult throws. He can make wow throws. We know that. But he's been inconsistent as a passer in terms of accuracy at times being scattershot. So he's going to try to get him to take the easy throws, be an efficient thrower, throw it to the right receiver at the right time with the right kind of throw. Whether Cam can do that in his seventh or eighth year, that remains to be seen.

But that's the goal. Become more of a move-the-chains quarterback than a big play quarterback. And problematic for Cam is Drew Breeze and Matt Ryan are high-precision guys, and they're in his division. So he plays those four games every year he is facing the ultimate precision guys, and he tends to be, you know, I've compared him a little to Terry Bradshaw. Which was a different era of football. But Terry threw a, Terry made a lot of mistakes.

Terry threw a lot of picks. But Cam and Terry, I'm not sure. anybody looks more beautiful. It's a poster throwing a deep ball. It is stunningly beautiful. The confidence, the poise, anything. Okay, let's go to Sam Darnold. I like him a lot. I know you do. You're not as high on him. Now, let me say, let me preface it. I don't think he's as talented as Andrew Luck. He's not. But I like him. You don't as much. Why? Well, it's not that I don't like him. I think that he needs work. I think he needs work with its fundamentals and mechanics. You and I have discussed this before. There's a looseness to him. There's a recklessness to him.

Yes. There's a lack of discipline to the way he plays. And that starts with the fundamentals and the techniques of the position. Simple stuff. The quarterback exchange and dropping back from center, getting your footwork right, stepping with your feet, having your eyes and your feet work together so you step to your throw. He needs simple work like that. Now, the only concern I have is the Jets do not have a quarterback coach. Wow. There's only three teams in the NFL that don't. The Jets are one of them. They've got a young offensive coordinator who's very highly thought of in Jeremy Bates, but he's a young coordinator, and it's hard to coordinate and coach the quarterback with the detail and the nuance required do both of those things. So I like Sam Donald's talent, but he needs to

become a far more disciplined player because there are going to be routine throws. You can't miss those throws. He missed too many of those throws at USC. I know you know that. I know I do. I like him. I don't think he's Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck went 11 of 5, 11, 11, and 5, 11 and 5 with no talent. Had he been given a modicum of talent, he would have gone 13 and 3, 13 and 3, 13 and 3. Donald's not that. I think luck is a once a decade talent. I think he was totally underserved by people in that organization, owner down. I think now luck finally has Frank Reich. He's finally got Chris Ballard, the GM, and I think the impulsive owner will be kept at bay. Finally, you saw Big Ben recently. Big Ben did not get along with Todd Haley.

Big Ben's got Lavian Bell issues. Big Ben is called out Mike Tomlin. He's got a new coordinator in. I love Big Ben. I like the Steelers this year. What do you make of the whole new coordinator? Levian Bell. How is the feeling when you talk to Big Ben this year?

The offense will be the same in terms of the concepts. I think the issues they face are some personnel issues. As we sit right now, they don't have a true slot receiver. So they have to figure that out. And that's an important player. Now, they drafted James Washington in the second round from Oklahoma State. He's a home run here, though. He won't be in the NFL. It's funny.

I watched his tape, and he caught a ton of deep balls at Oklahoma State from Mason Rudolph, but after watching him, I didn't think he would do that in the NFL. And actually, in talking with Ben, he kind of indicated the same thing that he didn't see him that way going through the OTAs and the off-season workouts. But they need to find a slot receiver, and that's a concern. But I think offensively, conceptually, there won't be many differences at all. Okay, so it'll be, we'll still see Ben going over. the top. By the way, we only have 20 seconds here. Does he like Juju Smith-Schuster?

Loves him. Talk to him about him. Loves him. You know, I told you this a year ago. Yeah. I told you, I said he's my favorite USC NFL prospect in 10 years. Super competitive. He is a great kid, a hard worker. I think he's, I think he's a little more gifted than Anquan Bolden. He is. A little more explosive. But he's going to be in the NFL for a long time. He'll be a, he'll be Heinz Ward with more talent, Anne Kwan Borden with more talent. Greg Kosell, Nobody's got more talent. Hour 2 next, The Herd. This is The Herd, wherever you may be in, however, you may be listening live in Los Angeles, Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1, Joy Taylor, joining me hour two.

Some of you have said, Colin, what's up with a new music top of your show? I can't get into it. We can't use the music we had to. I think in the next month, we're going to try to find new music to start each hour. We may have a contest. We may ask bands across America to do it. I'll call my friend John Bon Jovi, not really. but we'll figure out the music thing.

It's August. We're messing around. It's like TSA and the NFL officials. You're just watching us make the sausage here. We'll figure out the new stuff. Joy Taylor joining us hour number two on a Friday. How are you, Joy? Great.

So this is a story. I love this story. The story I'm going to talk to you about is about not being a rat. It's about not being a snitch. And everybody these days is a rat. I work in the media. Everybody's covering their butt 24-7. They're leaking stuff to this media guy.

They're leaking stuff to that media guy. They're gossip into that media guy. I work around nothing but rats. But I'll tell you who's not a rat. Tom Brady. According to a new book, the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell offered Tom Brady a million dollar fine. Tom, pay a million dollar fine.

All you got to do is come out and throw Johnny and Jimmy under the bus and you can play. Here's the excerpt regarding to Flategate. In a new book called 12 The Inside Story of Tom Brady's Fight for Redemption, Goodell demanded Brady state publicly that former Patriot Equipment guys, John Jostremski and Jim McNally had purposely tampered with footballs, even without his knowledge. Brady refused to.

He said, hey, I'm not going to ruin these guys for something. They, I believe they didn't do. This is not a small thing. We live in a time now. these would have been the easiest guys to throw under a bus. There are a couple of guys might as well be working in back at Costco. Johnny and Jimmy did it. Those guys did.

I didn't do anything. Johnny and Jimmy did it. And Brady wouldn't do it. By the way, Lance Armstrong blamed everybody. Roger Clemens pointed fingers at his trainer. Rick Matino, it's my low-level assistant coach. Ryan Braun in baseball, it's the testers problem. That is the current climate in America.

blame somebody else. You're a victim. I can't believe it. I've been cornered. This is outrageous. I'm a victim, Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, Ryan, Braun, Rick Patino. I don't know, says this football coach. I didn't see it, says this basketball coach.

It is the easiest thing to do. That is the current culture in America. Be a rat. Be a snitch. That is what everybody does now. And Tom Brady wouldn't do it. And by the way, Deflate Gates going to ding his legacy. It is. They're going to mention it when he retires. DeflateGate.

And there's going to give more people when SpyGate is combined with DeflateGate. Those guys are cheaters. And Tom Brady, I mean, come on. Every NFL coach, bad record, who's Pete Carroll blamed this week? Ah, get rid of this coordinator. Get rid of that coordinator. I got to get a new coordinator because it's not my fault. It's the coordinator.

Tom Brady didn't. Tom Brady's worth $300 million. He could have written a fine, blamed a couple of Johnny's and Jim. and he wouldn't do it. That's why Tom Brady is a great America. He's just a real one. If you want to make America great again, there's your next president. Even Belichick said ask the quarterback.

Yeah, even Belichick's like, it's not me. Robert Kraft, not me. It's Tommy. Tommy's like, Tommy could have, by the way, Tommy could have thrown those guys under a bus. And he didn't. I mean, it is boss. You know what happens in Boston. Everybody's squealing to the cops.

Departed. You remember the movie? Everybody's connected to the cops. You know the greatest line in movie history? I'll butcher it. I can't say it because there's a swear word. I can't. It's the Alec Baldwin.

Remember the Alec Baldwin line about how he treats cops? He goes, it was Mark Wahlberg. He said, I feed them blank and keep them in the dark. They're like mushrooms. Cops are like mushrooms. I feed them blank and keep them in the dark or something like that. Okay, I'm all worked up.

God, he is a great American. He really is a great American. It's really remarkable when you look at how long. I mean, we forget because I think everyone was so excited to finally move on from that story, but how long that story dragged out. Oh, God, two years. And all the opportunities that Tom Brady had to just clip it. Barry guys.

To keep his reputation intact. And all he had to do was blame it on these two. equipment guys. Wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it. I mean, we got a lot of politicians in America today are firing left and right. Somebody else's fault. I'm a victim. Not Brady. Isaiah Thomas, we were talking about this yesterday. He was one of the great

players of all time. He was on a dynasty with the Pistons. By the way, Michael Jordan couldn't beat that team at their prime. Michael Jordan could not beat Isaiah Thomas in the Pistons. Isaiah Thomas was talking about Lanzo ball of the Lakers. and I want you to listen to this piece of tape. Alonzo's a great kid. I mean, I don't think you're going to be able to fix his jump shot that you can work with him and get it better at how it is right now.

He's a talented young player that's going to be special in this league because he has the tools to be special. But it's interesting. He said, I don't think they'll be able to fix his jump shot. Now, when Isaiah was a general manager, it should be noted, he had a good eye for talent. He had a very good eye for talent. Oh, that's the other Isaiah.

Yeah. So here's the thing about Lonzo Ball. Let me just say this. He isn't going to be able to fix his jump shot. He's not ever. He's not going to fix his jump shot. Give me the list of guys in the NBA who came into the NBA talented and we knew they weren't good shooters. And then 10 years later, you're like, wow, what a shooter. John Wall came into this league, not a shooter. John Wall eight years in last year shot 42% still can't hit a 3. Okay. Derek Rose came in this late,

been in the league 10 years. He still shoots about 43, 44%. Westbrook last year, three-point shooting percentage was 29.8%. Awful. It's not like they don't work on it. It's not like they don't practice. It's not like those guys don't sit outside

and want to be better. Like, Lonzo Ball's never going to be a good shooter. But that's not what they brought Lonzo in to do. Exactly. He's long. He has great. vision. By the way, last 20 games, he played Lakers 13 and 7. He won at UCLA. He left UCLA. It wasn't the same program. He's going to be a really good player, but they do studies right now. They do studies in America all the time. Your personality, by six, seven, and eight years old, it is what it is. You can go to therapy. You can get into a great relationship. By six, seven and eight years old, they will do tests on your personality. And 40 years later, you are largely overwhelmingly the same person. It's the same. It's the same. It's the same. same in the NBA. Now, LeBron and Mello both came in with a high ceiling.

LeBron reached his ceiling, Carmelo, didn't, because LeBron works harder. But Lonzo Ball, I've said this before, will never be a superstar in this leap. Ben Simmons has the same basic flaw could be worse than Lonzo. He can't shoot either. But Ben Simmons will be a superstar because he's much better physically, much better athletically, he's a much bigger body. Ben Simmons and Lonzo Ball have the same. problem. In fact, Ben's problems worse than Lonzo. He can't shoot at all. Lonzo can't shoot. Ben

Simmons won't. He's so bad. People are suggesting Ben Simmons should shoot with the other hand. But the point is, much like kids being developed at eight, nine years old, the difference is Ben's got a much higher ceiling because he's a better athlete. Ben Simmons will never be a great shooter in this league. I doubt he's ever a good shooter, but he can still be a star because he can get the ball to other shooters and he does finish at the rim. he shot 54% because he finishes at the rim. He's also a great defender. He's big, strong, long, all that stuff, great vision. But it's funny about Lonto. Jason Kidd is the one person everybody uses.

Right. Everybody goes, Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd. Jason Kidd. You ever thought of him as one of the great shooters in the NBA? Even his best year shooting in the NBA, Jason Kidd had one year where he shot 44%. Years before it and years after it? 38, 39 and a half, 40.

And Jason Kidd made a miraculous improvement in his shooting. He was never a natural shooter. He got much better at the three. But even his best year, he had years before it, and his years after it, where I went back to what he was. Everybody doesn't have to have the same skill set in order to be successful or to be a Hall of Famer.

Yeah, now I don't. And mind you, Lonzo had the same shot when he was at UCLA. It's not like the Lakers didn't have all that tape on him shooting the exact same way. Now, I do believe that LeBron will make, potentially, could make Lonzo the best, Lonzo can be. Right.

But Lonzo will never average 25. I don't think he'll ever average 20. They don't need him to. But I think LeBron will get the most, he'll pull the most out of him. But it's funny, when I hear people talk about, I don't think he's going to be able to fix that shot. Westbrook can't fix his shot. He's 10 years in the league. We just talked about it yesterday.

He's working on his three-point shot all summer. John Wall can't fix it. And John Wall wants to fix it. And Derek Rose can't fix it. You come into this league and there's certain things. You just are what you are. And Lonzo's long, but he's not athletic. He's not real strong.

He's not physically imposing. He has tremendous vision. He does win games. He makes teams better. UCLA fell off the map when he left. When he played his last 20 games last year, rookie year, they were 13 and 7. They were a real team with Lonzo. People like playing with him.

I think he's a pretty good on-ball defender because he's pretty quick and he's good rebounder. He's really long. But I don't think his shot will ever get significantly better either. everybody doesn't need to be a pure shooter. If it's not natural to you, then that's not what it is. But that's not what they brought him there to do. Also, the problem with his shot to me, everyone thinks that it's his unnatural movement with his hands.

But if you watch when Lonzo shoots, it's really how he lands. That is the problem with his shot. People have had unorthodox shots before. But shooting is not just how you hold the ball or how you bring it up. It's your entire body. It's your core and your hips. If you watch how he lands,

that's really what needs to be fixed. Coming up next, I am surprised. Nobody else is saying it, but it's going to happen, and it's the first time it's going to happen in nearly 20 years, and that is coming up next. I'm all for good sportsmanship. Huge fan of Hyundai, new Shopper Assurance Program, transparent pricing, flexible test driving, streamlined purchasing.

Check it out today. HyundaiUSA.com slash shopper assurance. Check it out. Learn more for yourself. By the way, it is amazing. Patriots have signed wide receiver Eric Decker to a one-year deal. I said this before. The only reason I like the Patriots to win their division is their divisions

kind of a mess with a bunch of rookies starting and Ryan Tannihill, who I don't love. And Miami's coach I'm not sure of. And Miami got rid of Endomican Sioux and Jarvis Landry. So I don't know what to make in Miami. I think they're kind of getting the bad guys out of the locker room. Bad guys in their opinion. Indomican Sue, more of an individual, not a team guy, kind of did his own thing. Jarvis Landry didn't work for Adam Gase.

He wanted too much money. Brown's overpaid for him, whatever. But what I do find interesting is they're kind of rebooting. People don't understand this. This is the worst team Brady's had since pre-Ranny Moss. This wide receiving court, look around the NFL right now. Everybody's paying wide receivers. Kansas City paid a ton for Sammy Watkins.

Rams played for Banning Cooks. Vikings paying for their guys, Stefan Biggs. Everybody's paying for wide receivers. Okay, everybody's, and people are saying, why? Why? Because the NFL's changed. Because people are looking around the NFL and they don't want to pay Khalil Mac. They don't want to play Earl Thomas.

They don't want to pay Aaron Donald. Defensive players can't stop anybody. I mean, you think it's a, do you really believe it is a coincidence that the best defensive tackle, maybe the best pass-racher, and maybe the best safety can't get even, they can't get phone calls from their teams. I mean, Earl Thomas has to write an article yesterday calling out the Seahawks because he can't get calls back. And they won't make him a legitimate offer.

And Pete Carroll says, no, thanks. Kalee, Mac, John Gruden, they're not even calling now. They're not even talking since February. Aaron Donald, where is he? When Rams are signing, giving money to everybody, where is he? It is a trend. The NFL tends to be a followers league. That's just the way that there's two businesses in America where it's a copycat.

Television, if you create a big hit show like American Idol, now we got the voice, America's got talent, it's a copycat business. TV always has been. Radio not so much TV is. College football is not necessarily a copycat business. You can watch a college football game in the South. looks different than a college football game out west, different coach, different styles. Chip Kelly's offense is different than Nick Saban's offense. One's power, one's finesse, whatever.

But with New England, the only thing saving them to me is their division. I wouldn't pick them to win the AFC North over Pittsburgh. I wouldn't pick them to necessarily win the AFC South over Houston. I wouldn't pick them to win the AFC West over the Chargers roster or the Chiefs. I really wouldn't. I wouldn't pick them to win the NFC. F. East over Philadelphia, Dallas, and I think it would improve New York Giants team in Washington.

I wouldn't pick them to beat Green Bay or Minnesota. I really think this is the worst offensive repertoire. I think their defensive lines a little better. Look at their receiving core right now. They've added Kenny Britt. Look at this. It's Braxton Barrios, a rookie. How many rookie receivers have popped for New England?

How about none ever? It's too complex. Kenny Britt washed up headcase. Eric Decker heard all last year. Philip Dorset was a bust in indie. Julian Edelman's out for a month. Chris Hogan's biggest year ever was five touchdowns. And Cordorell Patterson, who's kind of a punt returner.

I don't think he's ever had, I'm not sure he's ever, I don't think he's ever had a thousand-yard season. That is their receiving core. Now, I know Eric Mangini told me in New England it's finishing school. It better be. It better be the world's greatest finishing school. That is a bad receiving core. Go look at Atlanta's.

Go look at the Rams. I mean, look at some of the receiving corps. is in this league. Go look at Houston. Look at the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean, you don't have a guy on that list that could, other than Edelman, by the way, Edelman's 32 off an ACL. So he is an old receiver's fall off a cliff at 33, 34 years old. He's old off an ACL. That is a bet they're rebuilding their offensive line. Gronk is only starting 10 to 11 games a year. If Gromk goes down in the first month and they don't have Edelman or Gronk, that is your receiving core. That's a mess. And they're

rebuilding for the first time and a long time their offensive line. And Tom Brady just turned 41 years old. So you ever seen the show Pickers? Those two guys go into old barns and pick stuff. That receiving core for New England is the stuff even they don't pick. That's like the old flashlight and the old bicycle. Even those guys are like, no, that's not even, we can't even, we can't even fix that stuff. And they pick everything. Sometimes they find a little hidden gem. There's no hidden gems there. You better host Braxton Berrios who played. I really actually like Braxton Berrios.

When he was playing at UM, my thought was that he should go to New England. He's built perfectly for that. Yeah, a little slot guy, little clever guy. I mean, he'll probably start out on special teams, but. Car shopping's confusing terms like dealer price, list price, invoice. True Car shows you what other people paid for the car you want. You can recognize a good price. Truecar.com, new or used.

Here's Joy with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, so LeBron's living his best life right now, and he's been a little busy this summer. But you can find him on the sidelines with his 13-year-old brawny because he leads his AAU team.

LeBron helped coach the North Carolina Blue Chips to a USDA national championship last month. And a video just surfaced of LeBron explaining the importance of accepting your role to a group of young players. We got Hall of Famers, and some of the best players that ever played a game came off the bench. or didn't play. That don't mean you ain't good.

There's guys in the NBA that don't play. Does that mean they're not good? They got to the NBA because it was sorry? They're just playing a role. If you don't want a role, play tennis or play golf. Because then you can do what the fuck you want to do. And then you've got nobody else to blame because it's only an individual sport.

If that's what you want to do, play tennis or play golf. But if you want to play a team sport, there's going to be things that you've got to give up to get what you want. I like that. It's really great advice, actually. By the way, it doesn't bother me. Some people are bothered that LeBron swore.

It doesn't bother me. I swore it my son yesterday. He's being a goofball, and I, boom, got his attention. Look, I don't have kids, but that's, I mean, what is the point of sheltering your child in that situation? Were they never going to hear a curse word? I've been swearing at my kids forever. They seem well adjusted. They like me mostly.

My coach has curseded me a lot. I turned out mostly, okay. I had a basketball coach that broke a clipboard over my knee. I still like him. Over your knee? He was so frustrated. He went, Cowell. God bang! And it broke.

And I was like, well, that was awkward. I mean, that's very illogical. Yeah, but I mean, that was high school sports. I didn't care. Yeah. I needed it. I needed my coaches to yell at me. That's really great advice, though, actually.

And he wasn't yelling at all. No, he's like, you got to be a teammate. If you don't want to be a teammate, go ski and play golf. It's perfect. It's absolutely perfect. So Aaron Rogers got clobbered last year in week seven. And a hit from Anthony Barr broke his collarbone. Aaron was very upset.

about it. Understandably so, but he didn't do it on purpose. No, I didn't think it was a cheap shot. Barr wasn't penalized, but something similar this year would have a different results. That's the word from NFL referee Pete Morelli, who said players will have to kind of roll to the side when they make that tackle instead of plopping down on them. So yeah, Aaron Rodgers would be a foul this year as long as he's out of the pocket established and all that. If he's running, it's not going to be the same. So this year, that would be a penalty. Let me see this again. Here we go.

On. Here we go. Hold on. What are you supposed to do in that spot? Yeah, that's not a penalty. It's ridiculous. I get it. You're upset that Aaron Rogers is out for the season. It's not good for the NFL for Aaron Rogers to be hurt, but it's also football. It's getting ridiculous with this quarterback situation.

Well, I mean, everybody's really concerned about, you know, listen, the NFL is the most popular football league. We have a lot of football league. We have a new football league coming out in the spring. We have college football. We have Canadian football in North America. The NFL is trying to take a step on curbing all this stuff. They may abandon kickoffs, but at some point, it's a rough physical game. It's like being a cop.

You carry a gun. There are times in your career you can't take away. You can't be a police officer if you're scared to be in a dangerous situation. It's kind of the job. You can't regulate something like this. What is he supposed to do? Float? That's not a cheap shot to me.

No, it's just an unfortunate ending that he popped his collarbone. By the way, defensive players don't get shoe deals. They don't get, but God, now the great. great ones don't even get a call back from their organization. You know what's happening in football now. Defensive players are like, you won't pay us. We're being marginalized. We don't get the shoe deals.

We don't get the, well, you know what? Occasionally what they do get is a free shot at the quarterback and they're going to take it. Ray Lewis is going into the Hall of Fame. Didn't everybody like watching Ray Lewis? I mean, at some point. They're taking measures to make the game safer. and when there's a billion dollar lawsuit about concussions, that's going to happen. But you can't change a rule like that.

I don't like it at all. It's ridiculous. All right, let me get my stuff together. Finally, the 2018 preseason coach's poll has been released. Last year's preseason poll had Alabama at number one. Not shocking. That's exactly where the tied are to start this season. They're followed by Clemson, Ohio State, Georgia, and Oklahoma.

It's around out of the top five. It looks like last years. Yes, much like last years. The two in the top five, that we're kind of watching for some movement, obviously, Oklahoma with the replacement of Baker Mayfield and then Ohio State with all the stuff that's going on with Urban Meyer. That could drop dramatically.

I think Wisconsin's a little underrated. I think Wisconsin's going to end up in the playoff. Do you like Michigan at 14? I think Michigan's a little underrated too. I think the Big Ten, the northern part of college football, Wisconsin's good this year. has got an NFL quarterback. I think Michigan's under-served.

I think Wisconsin's going to end up in the playoff. And I think Michigan, no, listen, the SEC's got the best team. The best conference. If you go down to the six best team in the Big Ten, it's better than the six-best team in the SEC. Primarily because, not because of athletes, because the coaching is so much better right now in the Big Ten and the ACC than it is in the SEC.

Who's the second-best coach in the SEC? Kirby Smart. He was a valet. for Nick Saban two years ago. So, yeah, I think Wisconsin's going to probably end up in the playoff, and Michigan's a little underserved. By the way, everybody complains about the NBA. It's the same teams every year.

Look at the top five. It's the same teams as last year. Same teams as five years ago, except Georgia now is really good. You know, I mean, this is the reality of sports. If you're bothered by repetition, don't be a sports fan, because that's what we got in all sports. Well, I think the difference with the NBA, at least, and the college football situation is in college football,

it's all about the coaches and the program. Right. And not the superstars, the kids. Right. It makes a big difference. Yeah. Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The herd line news. You know, I said last night, and I made this comparison, and I'm getting a lot of pushback, and it's like timeout. Lamar Jackson is the 2018 version of Tebow. Now, he's more talented than Tebow, and I think he will last in the NFL, and Tebow did not. The comparisons, though, are very clear. They both go to proud organizations.

This is not the Bills and the Browns. This is Denver for Tebow and Baltimore. Neither one of them is close when they broke into the league to start. You watched Lamar Jackson last night. He ain't close. He's not even close to RG3. Tim Tebow was terrible his first two years in this league. But it didn't matter because both were popular in college.

both coaches are on the hot seat. The starting quarterback, Kyle Lorton, Joe Flacco, were sort of over though they've had success and they're talented. And I think last night reminded me of Tebow, where the stats aren't good, way more bad than good, but when Tebow would get out of that pocket and wiggle,

you'd be like, ooh, I want to watch more of that. And Lamar got out of that pocket and wiggled, and you're like, ooh, I want to watch more of that. But Lamar Jackson, with Bobby Petrino, as a three-year starter, had three games this last year. Actually, five in college he couldn't complete more than 15 throws. He's totally limited as a thrower.

It's a throwing quarterback league. People forget how bad Tibo was. Tebow won six straight games. Mark Slareth was at Denver Broncos camp his first year. And he has told this story before. But there was a time when I was watching practice and I thought to myself, are you sure you're left-handed? that's how literally that's how bad it was i was like my god put that thing in your right hand and see if

you're actually right handed it was it literally was that bad and by the way lamar jackson's college coach a great offensive coach bobby petrino tim tibos college coach a great offensive coach urban so they both came in flawed they're both projects sam darnald andrew luck were prospect Cam Newton was a prospect. These guys are projects. They need time. Tebow should have never played first two years. Lamar shouldn't play for a year and a half.

Now, Lamar is better than Tebow. They both had profound college careers, three-year starters under profound offensive college coaches. They go to proud franchises that have won Super Bowls and get restless fast. And both have coaches on the hot seat. And Tebow came in. His stats were junk.

But he ran and it was fun. And, oh, my God. It made no sense. Lamar Jackson, his stats last night were bad, his stats are not going to be good for a year and a half. It's not going to matter. It's not going to matter that Kyle Orton was a million times better than Tim Tebow. Kyle Orton was in a different galaxy than Tim Tebow.

Even when Tebow was winning in Cawton. Kyle Orton was still a million times better than Tebow. Joe Flackle's a million times better right now than Lamar Jackson. But now we have something that even Tebow didn't have as his benefit. Twitter and social media. And last night I'm watching them. I'm like, oh, he's awful. Of course he is.

He's a project. He's not ready. He's not close to RG3. It won't matter. Twitter's going to love him. This is what we live in now. Facts don't matter. Look at our president.

Facts don't matter. If you like Tebow, you were all in. If you like Trump, you're all in. If you like Lamar, I'm watching last night, you're all in. Mark my words. This is going to be, it's going to be, it's going to be, fascinating to watch, but I feel the same way watching Tebow as Lamar. Lamar's better.

Lamar, I do believe potentially it could be a franchise quarterback. I never bought that ever with Tebow. But I feel the same way. I rushed home. I wanted to watch it. And I was really not impressed throwing. But man, when they ran, I was like, oh, that's fun. Well, you know, Colin, everybody can't win.

So maybe for the teams that can't win, they can at least be interesting for us. That play that everyone is flipping out about When he's running And he does a little move That is that's the biggest indictment for me No I don't like the running stuff I don't mind that you run But you got to slide

What are you doing? You got a slide there Listen some people Are just more interesting to watch Some actors Some hosts some quarterbacks Tim Tebow Listen it would be bad

I like you couldn't take your eyes off Tebow Cam Newton sometimes has his quality. Even when he's failing, I'm like, oh my God, he's got a howitzer. Even his failings fascinating. Well, I mean, you can be an interesting writer and not win a Pulitzer. Like, there's levels to everything. Right. But this year, he's going to play.

And he's not going to be ready. And he's not going to be nearly as good as not only Flacco, but RG3. But he's going to play and the world's going to go crazy. Eric Mangini's around the corner. He's got some plays. He wants to break down for us. When you're ready for a new car, Hyundai is on your team. Shopper Assurance Program offers.

Flexible test driving, transparent pricing, three-day worry-free vehicle exchange, streamlined purchasing. Be a part of team Hyundai. Go to HyundaiUSA.com slash shopper assurance. All right. We have all sorts of fun stuff, Joe. We have Eric Mangini back, two-time coach, head coach, Browns, Jets. and I'll get to the Randy Moss thing because you know Randy Moss well going to the Hall of Fame.

I want to start with Lamar Jackson. Now, listen, let me state my case. He's better than Tpo, who I never thought was a draftable quarterback. And by the way, that was an unpopular opinion years ago when I was at ESPN. I'm like, this is not an NFL quarterback. I didn't care that he won. I said the same thing with Johnny Mansell. It's not draftable.

Okay. So Lamar's draftable. I don't think he's ready to play. Last night you watch him and obviously very frenetic he was playing a little hot I get that. Appears to be better on the right side than the left side

little more comfortable, runs too much for my taste. He's not a huge athlete like Cammer Ben that can take the hits and he does get hit on like Russell Wilson. A lot of people are saying I think he's going to generate a lot of excitement. But you could watch that game last night and go ooh Lord he's not even close to RG3. What did you see with his interception for instance?

Well, before we go there, the first thing is he's a rookie quarterback in the first preseason game. And it's hard. It's hard being a rookie in the NFL. It's really hard being a quarterback in the NFL. This is the second half of the first preseason game. There's no game planning involved whatsoever. And RG3 should be way ahead of where this guy is. All I was looking for last night was how was he operationally?

Were there false start penalties? Did he fumble the snap? Did he control things that way? And I thought that was fine. In terms of his overall performance, so much is made about the interception and the throw that he made. But there's a lot of good stuff that happened on that play as well. I can show you right here. Take a look at this.

Because it's not the end of the world like most people think. So on the interception, what they were doing is they had a fade route on the outside. They were taking the fullback. He was going to go down in the middle. And then they had a little hook route down here to the left. And he goes through his reed progression. He's looking to see where the corner is. The corner's on top.

Don't throw the front. fade. He doesn't throw it. If there's a safety in the middle field, don't throw the fullback. He doesn't throw it. So now he knows his read is down here to the left hand side. The throw's not great, but the wide receiver could help him a lot too. There's plenty of separation between the corner and the wide receiver right here. The receiver should push up two more yards, but he starts to throttle down early, so the corner throttles down. Now he's supposed to break it downhill, but instead he breaks it flat. He breaks it flat, which again allows the defensive back to come up and intercept the ball. So the receiver could definitely help him.

Now, all that being said, if he throws it anywhere on the outside part of the receiver's body, it's not an interception. But in terms of the reed progression, that was good. In terms of the help that he should be getting from wide receivers, especially if he's playing with the first group, that's going to be better. But to sit here and look at that one interception and say, okay, this is the end of the world, it's not at all. It's not at all. How much value do you, even put as a coach into preseason games? We would use preseason games like practice. And it would ramp up to the third preseason game.

But depending on where we were in the install, that's what we do. So defensively, if we were in the heavy zone install, then we'd play a whole game in zone. If we were in the heavy blitz install, we made blitz the whole game. It had nothing to do with who the opponent was. It was what we wanted to work on. It was the things we wanted to achieve. Sometimes you throw shots because you're not going to throw shots during the season. and you want to establish tendencies that are false tendencies.

You mix and match personnel. Now, when you get to the third preseason game, there's an element of install. It's much more of a true pattern, and you're teaching guys how we're going to conduct business during the season. But this is one of five for these teams. Yeah, this team plays five. Five. So when you're dealing with five prison games, you don't want to get people hurt either. You've got an extra opportunity to get guys hurt.

So I think is this start perfect for Lamar? No, but it's not going to be perfect for any of these rookies. Let's talk about two things that happened last night. First of all, for the last 15 years, the NFL said that if the ball hit the ground, you lost possession. Now, my argument, I always use my phone argument. Here's my phone. Even when it hits the desk, I've got possession of my phone. The NFL, when I grew up as a kid, that was the case.

Then for the last 12, 15 years, they said, no, because. Colin lost possession of his phone, even though I have my phone. Last night, I think the NFL is going back to the more common central. Play the tape. You're really looking, does he have control before the ball hits the ground? That's the whole point of this play. And it looks like you can make an argument either way. Can you say he definitively does not have control, is the question.

And in that case, you've got to go stanched. And what about hitting the ground, ball hitting the ground? If he has control first, he kept control after. hit the ground, he's good. Whatever the official ruled on the field, if it's not absolutely clear and obvious that he made a mistake, go with the ruling on the field, put the ball in play and move on. Well, remember, the ruling on the field is a catch. After the viewing on the field stands. There we go. First down. Okay, I like the call, did you? Yeah, I like the call. With all these rule changes, they're in the spirit of trying to get

to the right answer. But there's going to be a bunch of stuff that comes up this year with the new rule where guys are going to look, people are going to look back at moments and say, well, that shouldn't have been a catch. That obviously shouldn't have been a catch. And then we're going to start debating. Is this the right answer? To me, as long as there's consistency

from staff to staff on how they call it, the group of officials to group of officials, then you can coach off that. Then you can teach off that. When it becomes one set of officials calls it more aggressively, one set of officials calls it less aggressively. And you go and, game and games are decided by

like an element of subjectivity that you can't anticipate, that's when it becomes an issue. Now, I think they're going to solve this. Here's the new helmet rule. Let's roll the tape, Sam, on this. You almost have to be a contortionist to avoid this.

Yeah, but I think if you look at the verbiage rule, I don't see this player lowering his head to initiate contact with an opponent. It looks like he's trying to drive his shoulder. He's got his head out in front. It's up a little bit. I think this is just not a foul. What they've been told to do is just throw. In the preseason, just throw, they're going to take a library of plays and try and hopefully by the time we get to

Philadelphia, week one, they'll have a really good understanding of what they want as a foul and what is it. That sounds like what you're doing as a coach. They're just, this rule to me is the catch rule. They're figuring it out and we're just watching them figure it out. Yeah, this is, This is like installing a new defense. You think that it's going to work one way, but you've got to try it against a lot of different sets. You've got to see how it really works. And then you've got to go back and say, okay, this works, this doesn't work. And they're going to overcall it during preseason.

And that's always the case. It's a little bit like a new employee where they may check the expense reports a bunch of times to make sure that, you know, they're not doing something down the line to send a message. To me, this is the same thing. They're going to call it a ton of times. They're going to get back together and say, okay, this works. this doesn't work. Now, the issue is how it is eventually plays, how it eventually plays out during the course of the season, because games are going to be won and lost based on the enforcement

of this rule. Oh, yeah. And they're going to be fine. This is why Roquan Smith, the rookie linebacker for Chicago, apparently was working on the words. He's like, can you take guaranteed money out if I get called on that? Yeah. And look, I've won games because of rules. You know, the tuck rule is a great rule in my mind. You know, a lot of people feel the tuck rule is a poor rule. But depends on, you know, where you stand depends on where you sit. So I thought that was a good adjustment. Now, but other people, or there's been other times when I was a head coach, the bronze, remember they used to have the, if you forced a guy out of bounds,

but his feet would have been in bounds. Then it was a cat. I lost a game because of that rule in Cleveland. So some games you're going to win because of the rules, some games you're going to lose. But the learning of how to enforce this rule is going to affect people's futures this year. By the way, Randy Moss and T.O. It's supposed to be both of them there this weekend in Canton. T.O. won't be petty. Randy will be. We'll celebrate. He'll be humble and grateful. It'll be amazing. You've got a Randy Moss story, which I think is funny. Not funny to me. Okay. I've always thought Randy was better than T.O. Not only this weekend by showing up. I always thought he was better. But if you go look at their numbers, there's touchdowns, receiving yards, teams, baggage. There's a lot of similarities. Give me your Randy Moss story. How great was he?

So I learned a very hard lesson. He had gotten, Oakland moved on from the Patriots. Yeah, Oakland moved on. Didn't really have much production in Oakland. Didn't play during the preseason. At all. And so you're thinking, I mean, how big a threat is this guy really at this point? And you were opening with the, you were the Jets coach.

Yes, we were opening with him. So we had a little bit of defense catered towards them, but not really, not what you would normally do. for a guy of his stature based on the performance that he had, the no performance in the preseason, and the limited performance in Oakland. And he comes out and hangs 180 yards on us. And it was unbearable to watch. And it was one of those lessons that if you're dealing with a Hall of Famer,

even if they've had some downtime, you better have a package in place just in case that pops back up. And we were not prepared. And he was catching balls. in double coverage. He was between a corner and a safety. There's a backside safety. He goes up high points that takes it away.

Just, by the way, it is, again, we show the numbers. Randy and Tio are very close. I think Randy's better. And I think he's, I think Randy's more coachable. I always thought Tio was a handful.

I think Randy's actually, from what I've understood, Randy was actually very, very willing to be coached. Friends of mine in New England said he was great to work with. incredibly smart, understood not just what we had to do offensively, but how defenses were going to play. And he was fantastic that way. Now, T.O. was a pretty special guy, too. I remember the Super Bowl that we played against him when he was with Philly. And he was hurt.

No, they said there was no chance that he could play. Not only does he play, but we did account for Tio. We had double coverage on Tio and he still caught a ton of ball and was hard to deal with it. He had a great Super Bowl. It was one of the most impressive performances that I can remember from an athlete, especially based off of what he had to do to play in that game. So you were told in that Super Bowl, when you beat Philadelphia, you were told he wouldn't play. He was not going to play.

There is no chance with this injury that this guy would play. But we factored that he may be able to somehow figure it out. But during the course of the week, you're thinking there's no way this guy's going to play. Because he didn't play in the NFC championship. Yeah. And then you're thinking, okay. Even if he does play, how effective could he possibly be with this injury? And he was outstanding.

By the way, Tom Brady, it came out in a book, and we don't have much time, could have snitched on the two guys that John and Jimmy in Boston. Word is that he didn't snitch on him. Okay. I have a hard time with the book. Like, where are we getting this information from? Why are we validating that this is actually all the inside scoop? This is exactly how it went down.

Like I have a hard time believing that they were able to get inside the building and get all of this inside stuff that nobody else seems to be able to get, but somehow they figured out a way to crack that code. Sounds like fake news to me. Well, I'm not going to. I refuse to use that term and validate that term. But I do have a hard time seeing that. Last hour coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Ah, this is the HARD Live hour number three, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. In Los Angeles, Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1.

By the way, we're going to have new music to start the hours. Probably coming up in the next month. May have a contest, whatevs. Some of you are asking, it's not that big of a deal. It's like 5, 7, 7, 8 seconds. Bothers some of you that we have music. Now, we don't have music, blah, blah, blah. Joy Taylor's joining me.

You came to the show. You got two minutes of the old. music. And now I can't use the music. Don't want to get into it. You know, it's what attorneys do. And now we've got to find some new music. We're going to have a contest. I did like the old music. So did I.

But I'm excited for a contest, though. Yeah, I told my bosses before football, let's announce the winner on Labor Day or something we'll have a contest, a new open, blah, blah, blah. I've been using it for 15 years. And somebody stepped in and said, can't use it. What do I care? I mean, seriously. People don't like change, Colin. I'm okay. My whole life's been changed.

You and I moved all over the country. together. But we've moved around, so I'm okay with it. Yeah, you got to embrace change. Got to embrace change. Nothing is forever. All right. So Jason McIntyre's coming up in 15 minutes. He is going to come after me hard in 15 minutes. And bad news for Heisman trophy winners coming up later and best for last. But we saw Lamar Jackson make his preseason debut last night and well, well, well, I've been saying it for months. Lamar Jackson's a more talented version of Tim Tebow. And all he gets pushback. All I get is pushback.

And I say, no, no, no, you watch what's going to happen. Baltimore and Denver were proud franchises with Super Bowls. They're getting very frustrated with their head coach on the hot seat. Both guys were overdrafted. Both guys are projects, not prospect. Tim Tebow was a project. He was never a prospect. Lamar Jackson's a project.

He's not Sam Darnold. He's not Josh Rosen. You watched them last night. He's not even close. He's not even close. First of all, first two times he gets the ball, he scrambles. Third one, hands off, three and out. Next time he gets the ball, second drive, scrambles.

Took him until a sixth play, until he threw a pass. By the way, it was 0 for three to the left side, three for three to the right side. So right now he's way more comfortable throwing to one side of the field and running to the other side of the field. That was way more bad than good. He's not close to RG3 at this point. He's not. Forget Flacco. RG3 is not as good as Flacco.

Lamar's not even close to RG3, and it won't matter. It never mattered with Tebow. People forget how bad Tebow was. Tebow was terrible. He was on fourth string in Denver. They still put him in first year. Why? Because he was fun.

He was new. It's a proud fan base. The coach was on the hot seat. They tried something new. They went into a losing streak and let's put Tebow out there and Tebow was terrible. By the way, Tebow was terrible a second year. But it didn't matter because you were crazy in love with a guy. Fan is short for Fanatic.

When Tim Tebow was tearing up the world, he liked Lamar was the first round pick. I was like, he's not ready to play quarterback in the NFL. Saturday Night Live did a skit. Funniest thing Saturday Night Live's ever done that's related to sports, and it was the most honest and accurate thing ever done in the history of Saturday Night Live in sports. Do you remember this? Here's the thing, okay? If we're going to keep doing this, you guys got to meet me halfway out there.

I mean, let's face it, it's not a good week. If every week I, the son of God, have to come in, drop everything and bail out the Denver Broncos in the fourth quarter. Okay, I'm a busy guy. So, wait, wait, you're only helping in the fourth quarter? Yeah, yeah. Have you watched the game film, Tim, of the first half? I mean, come on, three for 16? You know, I can throw better. I'm 2010 years old, huh? Oh, God, Tebow was awful. And it didn't matter. Matt Prater, the kicker, and the defense was winning games. It didn't matter. You didn't like to coach. like the starter, you wanted something new, flashy, and fun.

Listen, Lamar Jackson, with the best offensive coach arguably in college football, as a three-year starter completed less than 60% of his throws last year. That is a three-year starter in five of his games last year as a three-year starter with Bobby Patrino, an NFL coach coaching in college. In five of his games, he completed 15 passes or less. Lamar Jackson's not ready to play in the NFL as a starting quarterback. He's not as good as RG3. He's not close.

He looked nervous. The best moments were when he ran, just like college. He's a project. He's not a prospect. He was overdrafted. He was a second or a third round guy that he'd give a year and a half to two years of development. And then I think he can, you know, become something.

And everybody's going, call and that's not fair. It's totally fair. Folks, think about how Big Tebow got without Twitter, without Instagram. I checked on Twitter last night. Lamar was pretty awful. And all I heard was, we got a new starting quarterback in the NFL. Welcome to 2018. He's not even close to RG3.

Denver with Tebow and Lamar Jackson with Baltimore have a lot in common. You got a coach in a hot seat. You got huge rivals in your division pulling away at the time from the Broncos, pulling away now from Baltimore. A popular college quarterback gets overdrafted. I mean, Tim Tebow was really. really overdrafted. Lamar Jackson was slightly overdrafted.

You have a fan base getting restless, and here you have a young quarterback who runs right now better than he throws, and he's new, flashy, and fun, and he's hope. He is hope. And now add Twitter and stir. Of course, Lamar's not close. I've never thought he was close. That's why I keep calling him a project.

I never call him a prospect. Sam Donald's a prospect. Okay, Baker Mayfield's a prospect. They'll play this year and they'll be able to move the change. They'll be able to go. No, no. This is a project. All right.

All right. Okay, this weekend, they're calling it the most talented Hall of Fame class ever. Randy Moss, Brian Erlacker, Terrell Owens, and Ray Lewis, just four of them. They're saying it's the greatest Hall of Fame class ever. T.O. is not going to show up. Never forget this about movies. A good, solid movie can be ruined by a bad ending. And, by the way, a good solid movie can be called excellent with a great ending. Usual suspects.

It's a good movie. Great ending. People now say, great movie. Not really, great ending. T.O. and Randy Moss had a ton in common. They really did. They both played about 218 games. They both played for five teams. They're receiving yards, receiving touchdowns, teams, games almost identical. They both came with some baggage. They were both from the rural south.

They both went to smaller colleges than you think their talent would land them in. But Randy Moss this weekend and today, you watched them last night, feels so much bigger than T.O. because the lasting image of Randy Moss will be this weekend in Canton, Ohio, humbled, emotional, perhaps crying, thanking people, and T.O. will look small and petty and immature somewhere in Chattanooga.

I'm sure it will be a charming festivity, but pouting and petty. America forgives often, but to be forgiving, you have to be willing to have some humility. Randy Moss has all sorts of baggage. T.O. has all sorts of baggage. They were both remarkable talents, same part of the country, same stats mostly across the board. But Randy Moss this weekend is joining another team. will cry as he does and will let us celebrate with him. T.O. will be holding out. Yep.

A good movie can be ruined by a bad ending. And as Randy Moss steps to the podium and speaks this weekend and his son speaks for him, he will look bigger than ever and will forget the times he drove us absolutely crazy. And we'll think about T.O. and his pettiness. and he will never look smaller when compared to Randy Moss. Jason McIntyre is coming after we is. We get ready for the Hall of Fame ceremony, the induction ceremony in Canton, Ohio.

Joy, have you been to Canton, Ohio? I was there last year for Jason's induction, yes. How was it? It was awesome. It's really a great weekend, though. The best part of the weekend, though, everyone thinks is the speeches. But if you're a huge NFL fan,

you should try and make a weekend once in your lifetime to go. But Friday nights, they actually do a big banquet, and they have all of the Hall of Famers that, you know, obviously are still with us. They introduce all of them, and they have this, like, line of guys. And then they introduce each new Hall of Famer, and they kind of walk down through this receiving line of all the Hall of Famers.

It's really, like, an amazing moment. And they give them their gold jacket there at the banquet. It's awesome. It's a great weekend. Jason McIntyre around the corner. Hyundai has a new shopper assurance program, flexible test driving, streamlined purchasing, transparent pricing, HyundaiUSA.com

slash shopper assurance. Learn more for yourself. Jason McIntyre wants to go after me today. Thebiglead.com. Speak for yourselves. Fox Sports Radio Saturdays. So I came out with something this week. It's fun to go after you, Calhurt. Well, I had my...

You're an easy target. I am a believer that generally, if you look at sports, we're all caught up in parody, and the big thing now is in the NBA. Well, it's just, I mean, only so many teams can win it. And my argument is, if you have six or seven teams at the top, that's all college football has. I mean, college football this year, Alabama can win. Right.

I mean, Clemson can win. Clemson can win. You know, Washington can win. The same teams every year. I think, are my seven teams, I believe, can win the Super Bowl. And by the way, in all of them except New England, my fringe team was New England. Okay. Let's start here.

When did you compile this list? Because there was such a glaring error. Which one? That massive error on this list. Where are the Minnesota Vikings? You know they have the second best odds to win the Super Bowl according to Vegas? 10 to 1. They're not even on your list?

Well, no. Minnesota was my last team. And the reason being is, when is the last team? got a new quarterback and a new offensive coordinator and won a Super Bowl. It doesn't happen. Well, new quarterback, we could go, Drew Breeze when he made the move to New Orleans, eventually won a Super Bowl. Yeah, but what would you say?

It wasn't year one. Not in year one. And this guy, Peyton Manning, you know, Denver. He did okay. But he didn't win in year one. So now people forget this. Kyle Shanahan popped in Atlanta year two. People forget this.

It takes a coordinator and a quarterback two years. years to pop. It's funny you mentioned the coordinator. He actually went to college where I went to. I covered him. We stayed friends. He knows football, okay? He was just in Philadelphia last year with Foles, with Wentz.

I trust him a lot. Okay. Now, my big thing with missing on the Vikings is this is a team who had as good a defense in net yards per play as the Jacksonville Jaguars. This is an awesome defense, Colin. Seriously, the Vikings are ready to go in, stop people, and then they finally have a quarterback who can take him over the hump. Think about that NFC championship game when they lost to the Eagles.

What was the reason? His case Keenham. He was bad. He lost the game for them in the first quarter with that tipped interception. And I look at Kirk Cousins coming in there, Colin. I mean, to me, he's a top 12 quarterback in the NFL. Remember, the Washington offensive line was a train wreck, one of the least healthy lines in the league.

Now you add Dalvin Cook, who you loved in college. Yeah. Looked very good running back last year until he got injured. Great receivers, maybe one of the best combos in the league. and the defense is just nasty. I mean, I think we went over this in the offseason. The Vikings may have with the Eagles the best roster

in the NFL, young, talented. I think the Rams and the Eagles and the Chargers, I know those are two LA teams have great rosters. I think the Giants roster is underrated. Houston has a good roster. I go back to this. New coordinator, new coach, to me, it's going to take a year.

If you don't like my Vikings, let me get three more for you that I think you are. Okay, so you know the NFL, like you said earlier, unlike the NBA, teams can go from the middle or the bottom to the top. Eagles last year. Yes. Nobody had them going to the Super Bowl. Right.

Okay, two years ago, Falcons weren't ready to go to the Super Bowl. They get there. The Houston Texans, I'm going to just throw that out there for you. Very good defense. Awesome quarterback who lit the league up. He was poised Deshawn Watson to set every single rookie quarterback record that existed. Like all Peyton's records are going down after just six games. So I love the Houston Texans as a live dog and the AFC, which is weak.

Okay, the AFC is weaker, but I will say this. I have a belief you cannot win a World Series with a bad bullpen because once you get to the playoffs, seventh inning on is situational. You're facing the best bullpen's best hitters. You can't find a bad bullpen that's won a World Series in 20 years. You cannot win a Super Bowl similarly with a bad offensive line. Yes. Houston's O line is awful.

So you want a good offensive line? Yes. All right. Your favorite team, the Dallas Cowboys. Now, Colin, I heard you driving in here. I heard you prattling on about the receivers stink and who's going to throw the ball. Listen, two years ago, 13 and 3. All they did was run the football, time of possession.

They ate the clock and the defense didn't have to be on the field long. Why can't they do that again? Just riddle me this. Why can't they just feed Zeke, keep the ball away from the opponent, and win games, in like a 17-14, 17-13 manner. Why can't that happen for Dallas? I don't think that's inconceivable. I did not have them.

I said, let's show my Super Bowl contenders again. The six I feel good about are Pittsburgh, Philly, Green Bay, Atlanta, New Orleans, Rams. I put the Patriots in for one reason. The divisions got awful. They have a chance to go six and no, which means buy and two home games. Now, I don't think they'll do that because I think they'll be choppy all year. they're rebuilding the old line. The Vikings was the first team out for me.

But you have almost all first place teams there, Colin. They have brutal schedules. Look at Dallas's schedule. Okay, but here's the problem. With Philadelphia, the Giants and Alex Smith, they're not going to be a 13-3 team. They're not getting a buy. They're not getting home field.

They're going to have to go to it either in Atlanta, a green bed, a Minnesota, a New Orleans. I think Dallas could, even if Dallas won the division, I am more of a 9-7. beats up on everybody, but that's road playoff games, back-to-back weeks in New Orleans, Minnesota. I don't think they can do that. You're also a chemistry guy. I believe Des Bryant, similarly to Carmelo Anthony and OKC, is addition by subtraction.

I agree with that. You get Carmelo out of that locker room? I really think OKC is going to do better this year. I actually agree. Des Bryant? Nightmare, Colin. Come on. He's yelling at the quarterback, ranting at the head coach.

That's one of the most underplayed stories in the division. Des Bryant is addition by subtraction for the Cowboys. All right. What's your other team? So I told you. This last one is risky because I know you hate their quarterback and they were first place team last year. But the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Oh, let me get this out. Let me get this out. The Jaguars led the Patriots in Foxborough by 10 with eight minutes left in the AFC title game. They led by 10. They dominated that game. There's a team that went into Pittsburgh just embarrassed Mike Tomlin. Put them on the hot seat.

And then they go to New England and had that game won. This is a team. And again, I'm a firm believer. Run the football. Keep it away from the opponent, the good quarterbacks in the AFC with like Rathusberger and Brady. And then that Jacksonville defense, they have the best pair of cornerbacks in the league. On the big lead this week, I ranked the best cornerbacks in the NFL.

They have two of the top five. Yeah. You can't throw the ball against them. Here's my knock. With all those things said, the AFC was weaker last year. They didn't face Deshawn Watson or Andrew Locke. And they lost both games to Tennessee. it is reasonable to assume

that in their division they have easily the worst quarterback. I can never pick a team to go to a Super Bowl. Okay, so let's let's see. In review, let's see, let's be honest. Okay, so let's go to the four teams you said should crack my top seven. I want to review it, crystallize it, distill it for the audience.

Minnesota, I like a lot. That's your best argument. New coordinator, new quarterback. I don't think that hits year one. your next argument was Texans. I don't think a bad old line can win the Super Bowl. Dallas, I think they're going to get chewed up in that division.

Even if they won it, it'll be... In that division? Redskins? Philadelphia on the road. Philadelphia, New York. So what's going to happen if they win it? They're not going to get a buy. They're going to go road New Orleans, road, Green Bay. I don't like it.

And then your last team, Jacksonville. The AFC was a mess last year. I mean, who was the third best team? Kansas City, Alex Smith. We don't trust them in the playoffs. Chargers were the hottest team. and they didn't get in and do anything. So to me, Jacksonville, to me, is, if you have the fourth best quarterback in a division,

I can't pick you to be a 12-11 win team, get a home-buy, home games. I like teams, by the way, that get home games in the playoffs. I like teams that get a buy in the playoffs. That means something to me. So you're out on the Cowboys despite the fact that they have the best offensive line. And this is what I didn't like about your argument. You'll say, I can't pick a team without an offensive line. Well, the Cowboys have a great offensive line.

So let's look at my – let's go back to my teams. Rams, great coach, good offensive lines. Saints, great coach, great quarterback. Let's stop on Rams. They went to the playoffs last year, right? Rookie head coach and Jared Goff's second year quarterback. Isn't that similar to one of the teams I mentioned? I mean, Deshaun Watson.

Again, come out. Time out. They couldn't win a playoff game. So you just – They blame the special teams. I think they probably two months in the first half. And that's why they couldn't win a playoff team. So Rams, good coach, good quarterback, good O'Lines. Saints, good coach, good quarterback, great offensive line. Atlanta.

All these teams except New England, and I even think Green Bay does a great job drafting and developing young offensive linemen. Every one of these teams except New England has a very good offensive line and a very good quarterback. The only exception is New England, and I do give them the benefit of that out because their division is awful. They're going to go 5 and 1 and 6 and 0, and they're going to get a buy and have a, potentially two home games, and it's, you know, Foxborough and January, it's, you know, it's brutal. Let me, can I turn back the clock on the Patriots for one second, Colin? Sure. Okay.

Last year, I know everybody said, oh, they're going to Super Bowl, all this. You remember that game in Pittsburgh, okay? If the NFL didn't butcher that call, they lose that game, don't get home field advantage. Yeah. They ain't going to the Super Bowl, okay? Then in, in, against Jacksonville, they're, you know, they're trailing by 10 with eight minutes left to have a lucky comeback against, you know, a young quarterback. And in the Super Bowl, they gave up 600 yards of offense to Nick Foles. I said.

Bill Belichick, the genius. So I know everybody loves the Patriots, and yes, the division stinks. Keep an eye on my jets, just for the record. I don't think it's going to be as easy in the AFC this year for Tom Brady. I mean, I know we keep saying that the end is near, but if you look at those three games, Steelers, Jaguars, Eagles, I mean, they weren't the better team in either of those three games. That's a fact. No, they had the worst personnel, if you put,

Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, and Philadelphia's personnel up there with New England. They had the fourth best personnel. But you know what? They had the best coach and the best quarterback. Not for much longer, hopefully. Okay. By the way, let's give Brady love. Yes.

There's a new book out with Brady. And according to the book, all Tom Brady had to do to get on the field and not miss a month was write a million dollar check and throw Jimmy and Johnny under the bus. And he didn't. He would not be a snitch. unlike everybody else in Boston. We've all seen the movie Departed, where everybody's squealing to the cops.

Brady could have played, according to this book, had he just thrown a couple of guys, Jimmy and Johnny, under the bus, and he didn't. You have to respect this. So you mentioned Departed. I'll see you're Departed and raise you that bank robbery movie with Ben Affleck. Joy, do you know the movie I'm talking about?

Town. To town, yes, thank you. Okay. There was a code, an Omerta, in that movie where you don't snitch. and Boston is one of these very cities where it's like... Insular. Yeah, you protect your guys.

Brady protecting his guys? I think that's kind of a cool move, right? Is it not? I mean, you've got to look out for your dudes. They've been with him forever, right? Right. Listen, we live in a time... I'm built to hate Tom Brady and the Patriots

because I'm a Jets fan, and they've just killed my Jets forever. But I respect Tom Brady. I just, you have to. How can you not? By the way, Lance Armstrong strong through his entire cycling team under a bus, Clemens is trainer, Ryan Braun, the tester.

I mean, good God. Every NFL head coach rebuilding, they fired their coordinators. Tom Brady, all he has to do is basically say, yeah, these two guys who, you know, work part-time at Costco. It was those guys. And by the way, wouldn't do it. That is called. And what happened?

He ended up getting suspended right. And it'll be on his obituary. It'll ding his legacy. He could have literally played. Is that in the first sentence of his obit? No, no way. I don't think it dings his legacy. It doesn't for me, because I think everybody's playing the edges.

I mean, he's had so many Super Bowl comebacks in the fourth quarter. He's got the most rings of anybody. I don't even think it's like a top three thing of his career. What would you say, what would Brady's legacy? But you would say largely considered the greatest quarterback of all time. Most Super Bowl rings. So that's the first thing. The second thing is Brady joined with Bill Belichick for the greatest coach combo of all time.

Then you look at like the Seattle end of the game where they came back and the goal one. Obituary, you're going macro. So you're acknowledging he's the best at it. You're acknowledging Belichick combo. I think the third thing, it didn't come without bumps and bruises. And I think deflate gates your third paragraph. Above the Falcons come back in the Super Bowl, the greatest comeback ever? That's micro.

When you write obituaries, you take three to four macro things. The first thing is best ever. Six round thing. The second thing is Belich and he best tandem ever. Third thing is, there were some bumps here. So then you go back to some specifics at the end of the obituary on his family, the documentary, his health. TB 12.

No, I think that's part of it. You're like at the end of Tom's, that's like the fifth paragraph. I don't think we're going to get invited to this situation. I don't think we're going to be, yeah, I don't think we're going to be the one signing up to write his obituary. No, we're not. You only say nice things about people when they pass. Do you?

Yes. Like Donald Trump's obituaries No, no. You're not going to have any negative? I was the greatest at everything. Make America great again. The end. The end.

I think obituaries. I invented everything. Everything is the best. Don't obituaries have negative stuff? They don't. Not paragraph. Second or third. I know who's not writing mine, either of you.

I thought obituaries have negative stuff. Joy, come on. I'm sunshine every day. You were actually trying to answer a lot of nice things. No, Cal heard a tremendous broadcaster. once dyed his hair, it didn't go well. Like if that's not in there, that's irresponsible. I had for a month the dumbest looking head

in the history of television. That's not how we want to remember you. No, I don't want you to remember me, but it's going to be like in the third paragraph. That's like the stuff that you talk about afterwards when you're like, you know, like, drilling down. By the way, are you a Randy Moss or a T.O. guy?

I'm a Moss guy. So am I. Yeah. I'm not. I don't want to bash Tio. He just followed me on Instagram. Oh, that's nice. So I don't know if that means something, but, I don't want to slam the guy.

Thank you for being transparent about that. I think I will say this. Randy Moss and T.O. have a lot of similarities. Five teams, a lot of baggage, a lot of greatness. I think Randy looks really big

and Tio looks real petty, not showing up. Tio had a lot of moments, but I feel like Randy's were bigger and more, just awesomer. No, I mean, listen. That's not even a word. No,

but I do think Randy's, Randy's biggest stuff is bigger than Tio's biggest stuff. There's a lot of similarities, Tio's biggest stuff is negative. If you're doing the T.O. Obit, and I'm not touching that one, Joy. A lot of it is, like, standing on the star and getting decked and all the negative, like sit-ups in the driveway during a holdout. Randy's biggest stuff is when he conjoined with Brady. You can do the pulling down the pants celebration in the end zone.

But by the way, it should be noted. That was a touchdown. Straight cash, homie. Remember that interview in the parking lot? Yeah, I'm a boss guy. I love him. All right. Jason McIntyre.

See him later on Speak for yourself. When you're ready for a new car, Hyundai's on. on your team shopper assurance program. They have three-day worry-free vehicle exchange, flexible test driving, transparent pricing. Go to HyundaiUSA.com slash shopper assurance. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. All right, we're giving Tom Brady a lot of love today. Although I do want to say I don't think that the stop snitching movement began in Boston. But we're going to keep it there for right now since he didn't throw his equipment managers under the bus, and today is his 41st birthday. Last year, the Patriots celebrated his 40th birthday by bringing five goats to represent his five championship rings, five goats for the goat. They're so cute, so adorable.

Well, this year they got creative, and they made a 1,200-pound cake for his 41st birthday. Oh, God. It's made of red velvets, which is my favorite, and vanilla, which is whatever. And it can feed up to 8,000 people, and this is at camp. But it's nice, though. Everybody's getting cake. That's very nice. Do you always eat the cake at the office?

Yeah. Did you have some of my cake? Probably would you have cake. We had cake the first day I was here. Yeah, I think so. I had cake. Yeah, cake is good. Big cake guy.

Congrats to Tom Brady. Happy birthday. All right, Payton Manning visited the Raiders training camp practice on Thursday. And he believes John Gruden has one intangible love intangibles that his players will respond to. Passion. Let's take a listen. Ultimately, I don't think the role of any. coach is to get his players to play hard for him.

And there's different ways of, you know, Tony Dungey, you had so much respect for him, didn't even want to disappoint him. So we played hard for him. And it was a very effective way of leading. And I think John's just his passion for it. It just shows, and he wears it on his sleeve, and players will respond to that. He is totally, I will say this about Gruden. Nobody loves football as much as John Gruden.

Now, his players, that may wear out players after a couple years, but he loves the game. We talk about this all the time. with Pete Carroll with that rah-rah kumbaya stuff. Now, I'm not saying that John Gruden is a kumbaya guy, but he's definitely a rah-rah guy. So you've got to be careful with that. And my only pushback on this, like, playing hard for the coach thing, I think Tony Dungey has kind of that element.

But Bill Belichick is not somebody you want to play hard for. And they have five championships. So to me, I look at what is the most successful formula for sustained success is a system, right? Because you have all these people that all have to be on the same, page, you almost have to have, you have to have very clear boundaries and in a set culture, right? The only he's trying to do is establish a culture.

But where I get kind of weary on it is you want to play with passion and you got to play for your coach. Like, that's cool in high school. That's cool in college. But eventually that's going to wear on the guy in his 10th year who's like, yeah, coach, I've heard this speech before. Like, what's the game player? Well, we're seeing what's happening.

The NBA has always been a players league. And the NFL's always been a coach's league. But a couple years ago, Odell Beckham got a shoe deal. And it's like, oh, we're seeing the NBAization of the NFL now. And so, by the way, celebrations were okayed last year. That was always something. So what you're seeing happen is the NFL is watching the increased popularity of the NBA.

And the league, the NBA is always empowered stars. And the NFL never did. Right. But the NFL now is like, okay, shoe deals. You can celebrate after touch. So John is entering the league joy in a cultural change with players. So not calling Khalil Mack, strong-arming, 10-year contract. It doesn't play.

I said this the year or day. It used to be that a coach 10 years ago could walk into a locker room and say no politics. If a coach does that now, half the room thinks that's racist. So that's the world he enters. It's not about the schematics. John will figure that out. He's a smart guy. That'll take him a while, but he'll figure it.

out. And it won't be relationships with his quarterback. He's great at that. But man, the league has changed. The NFL's becoming a little more like the NBA. Not a bad thing, just a different thing for old school guys. Well, I don't know that they have a choice anymore. Like, with social media, everyone has their own brand. And it's not something that's negotiable. It just is what it is. So you have to, you have to kind of embrace it. Charles Woodson did say that he has a DJ camp, though. So he's trying. He does. John does? He's got a DJ. DJ Khalid rhymes with salad I don't think that DJ

Callad is there Okay They should bring DJ Caled in for Miami camp Finally Jets have rookie quarterback Sam Darnold at training camp With his contract situation all sorted out now And it hasn't taken long for the conversation To turn towards the competition

Between Josh McCown, Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold And this is what Sam had to say about it Obviously that's a coach's decision The competitor in me yeah I want to start But at the same time, it's about the team. And whatever is best for the team, if Coach Bowles and Coach Bates feel like Josh or Teddy or myself, you know, are best fit for the starting job, then that's what it is. And the team can respect it.

And I think that's also part of the reason why it's never really awkward at all in the quarterback room. Me, Teddy and Josh, we push each other every single day. But at the same time, we love each other and, you know, we get after each other and we're able to have some fun meeting room and in practice. That's great quarterback speak out of Sam Donner. Arnold's really nice thing to say. The reason that there's no tension, Sam, is because you're the starter. What is the version of this team where Sam Darnold is not a starter week one? Oh, I don't think he's going to start week one.

What? I don't. I think Teddy Bridgewater is going to start week one. I really do. I think the only quarterback that's going to start week one is Josh Rosen in Arizona. I think all the other rookies will not start. Yeah, Jim McCarran has come out taking first team snaps now for the bill. I think Darnold starts somewhere.

I think Josh Rosen starts and looks pretty darn good. Listen, all these quarterbacks went to teams for a reason. Yeah, the teams were bad. Or in Baltimore's case, they should be better and their quarterback's not delivering. Yeah, but they didn't take Lamar Jackson High. He's the last pick in the first round. Well, first round's first round. Okay.

But it's not top ten. Yeah, I don't think Donald's going to start. I don't think I'd start in week one. He's only 21 years old. I'd let this, you know, I would let Darnold sit there until Thanksgiving and figure out, oh, okay. I don't have any, in fact, I would start Darnold. When is there a by week? They have an early by week, like week five or something.

The Jets have a buy week. That's not a terrible time to start him. Give him two weeks to prepare for a game. That's not a terrible. You want to set these guys up to succeed. That's not a terrible time to start him after a buy week. I mean, doesn't he have? Week 11.

So week 11, the Jets have a buy week. So I'd give him two weeks to be ready. that's when I do. Who would they play that week? Oh, God, the Patriots. Great plan. It is at home. By the way, Jets generally play the Patriots at home. Tough. Well, yes, because it's a division game, but I don't know. I think you should start. All right. Joy, Taylor, with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Live News. Coming up, it's one of the NFL's longest traditions. I don't think it has to stop. That's next. Best for last in Los Angeles. Rapping number Friday, it's The Herd.

One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day. seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Sunday on Fox is episodes three and four of the exclusive documentary about Baker Mayfield, where he appears right here on the herd to confront Colin. Follow the NFL's number one draft pick as he navigates his way through the complex world of professional football. All the way up, Baker Mayfield, Sunday at 3 Eastern on Fox or stream it on the Fox Sports app. Yeah, I tell you, there's a clip there where he's on our show.

And he does a really good job. This is a clip you'll see if you watch this. They have multiple cameras. This is right before he came on our show. That thing must have gotten 5 million hits on our Facebook. Here it is. I can see my best friend today. I went on Colin Coward's show just to be myself.

There's been a lot of skepticism about who I am as a person, and I wanted to address a lot of those issues that he keeps bringing it up over and over again. Got the hoodie? Undraftable. Quoted by Colin Coward. I'm going to leave this on his chair. Oh, it's 30. Whatever, he doesn't need clean one.

I knew he was a Sam Darnold guy. Let's bring him on. Baker Mayfield. Look at this. He's got a support group. Oh, I got something for you. Quarter to you by you, right? Unraftable.

That is great. I have a general rule. Don't like my quarterback showing up on police video. Don't love this. There's a lot of regret to it, but at the same time, that was a rude awakening, just very eye-opening for me. By the way, that's the best answer you've given me in 10 minutes. That's what grown-up say.

That makes me like you more. I went on there to prove my point of, you said I was undraftable. Well, I went number one. I'm proud of who I am. I got what I wanted out of it. That's good stuff. I really think you should post a picture in that hoodie. I probably should.

First week when he starts. I'll do that. Undraftable. All right, we call it best for last. Let's go. After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet. Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best for last.

All right, Lamar Jackson played for the Ravens last night, debut. More bad than good. Four for ten, had a pick, a little bit of running stuff. Exciting. It's fun to watch. He was fun to watch in college. He's fun to watch in the NFL. I think he's more of a project than a prospect.

But, you know, he's going to play eventually. Now, he's one of 15 quarterbacks to win the Heisman since 2000. 15 of them. 11 of 15 have played in the NFL. Now, Lamar and Baker haven't yet, and Eric Crouch and Jason White never took a snap. So here's the guys that won the Heisman in the last, since 2000, that have played in the NFL. Some, you know, Cam Newton's obviously a big name. Johnny Mansell did not work.

Troy Smith was a great college quarterback at Ohio State. That did not work. Chris Winkie and not going to be an NFL quarterback. But Carson Palmer was excellent. You know, Borderline Hall of Fame guy. Cam can play. Bradford, when he's healthy, can play. James and Mario.

not quite as good as I thought they would be, but they're fine. They can win games. Winston right now suspended. Tim Tebow, obviously, you know that iconic. So we thought what we do is how goods look more are going to be. We'll just do this. Again, here are the 11 Heisman winning quarterbacks who have played since 2000. Let's give the average stats.

We combined all of them. The hits, the misses, the busts, the near busts. This is the average of those 11 quarterbacks. They complete 61% of their throws. Their passer ratings are about 85. They have 1.4 touchdowns a game and about one interception a game. And they win less than half of their games. And there is one playoff win in the career.

So who would that be? So John Goulet comes out. It's going to give us four choices. On average, the Heisman quarterback, if you accumulate all the stats, is one of these four quarterbacks. John, who are they? Okay. A, Andy Dalton, B, Kirk Cousins, C.J. Cutler, or D. Matthew Stafford.

Okay, Joy. So these are the 11 quarterbacks. We're kind of projecting. On average, you win the Heisman. Now, Baker and Lamar won it. They have not played yet. But if you take the average over the last decade and a half, this is the average quarterback numbers you get. So give me the four quarterbacks again, John. Andy Dalton, Kirk Cousins, Jay Cutler, or Matthew Stafford. You know, I want to go Kirk Cousins. I think I'm going to go Kirk Cousins. I think I'm going to go with Jay Cutler. Jay Cudler did.

Now, none of these guys, by the way, won a Heisman. That's not the point. The point is, take the average Heisman winner, and what is he compared to professionally? John, what is the answer? Okay, so Joy went... I went Kirk Cousins. And I went Jay Cutler. Colin got it.

Jay Cutler has shockingly similar stats to our fake Heisman quarterback Joe Heisman. That's not great. No, that's not great. That should make you never want to draft a Heisman with a quarterback ever. So those are Jay Cutler's career numbers. And I feel like I've disrespected Kirk Cousins also. Yeah. Jay Cutler has a lot of talent.

You know, what does that mean? I know. it doesn't really mean much. Like that's when we were talking earlier about the the dolphins and Gase getting the quote-unquote bad guys out are the ones that are more individual guys. Gase brought Jay Cutler in. I mean, granted, Tanny Hill was injured, but. By the way, we had Eric Mangini, Jason McIntyre, Greg Cosell stopped by today. It was funny because, you know, he watches yesterday when Greg Cosell.

was here after the show. He gave me two pamphlets, one for quarterbacks in college next year, and one for wide receivers. He looked at 150 players. So what I get every year from, like, Greg, is before the college year starts. He tells me who the NFL guys are going to like. So college football, I'm not going to get into it now. They've got about three quarterbacks. There's one at Oregon, one at Iowa, one at Michigan. Those are going to be the three big quarterbacks NFL people are going to like. But it's funny because I've talked to Greg several times on the air, mostly off about Sam Darnold. Now, of the five quarterbacks taken in the first round,

I think Darnold is going to be the guy after 12 years that you're like, that's the best franchise quarterback. I don't think he has Andrew Luck's talent. I don't. I don't think he has Cam Newton's talent, though I think he'll be less emotional, less roller coaster. I don't see him. Now, when I say I think he's really good,

what I'm saying is I think he's going to be the best quarterback in his division for a decade. And to me, that's a franchise quarterback. Are you the best quarterback? John Elway was the best quarterback in his division for 10 years. Dan Marino was the best quarterback. Tom Brady's the best quarterback. Aaron Rogers is the best quarterback.

I think Darnold would be the best quarterback in that division for 10 years. But Greg CoSell, say what? Oh, it's too long. Basically, Greg CoSell's takeaway on this. He's not Andrew Luck. His throwing motion has problems. The Jets don't have a quarterback coach. Only three teams in the NFL don't have a quarterback coach.

and he thinks he's going to be really choppy because he's really young. And he makes a lot of mistakes. Now, that I agree with. He plays too fast and he's too reckless. But I also think he's going to get better coaching in the NFL. Like, I never felt Andrew Luck got better coaching in the NFL than college. I think he got better coaching with Jim Harbon, David Shaw, than he does in the NFL. I think the coaching Donald will get with the Jets is better than the coaching he got at USC.

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We're in the middle of a game. game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, Fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments.

If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of you. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.