The Herd with Colin Cowherd - LeBron James, Dak Prescott, Jason Garrett, & Jerry Jones

Episode Date: September 26, 2018

Colin discusses why LeBron James doesn't owe the Los Angeles Lakers anything, the current struggles of Dallas Cowboys QB Dak Prescott, why HC Jason Garrett shouldn't be on the hot seat, and Jerry Jones' latest comments on the NFL QB tackle rule. Guests include Joe Buck, James Jones, Joel Klatt, and Eric Decker. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for The Herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the Iheart Radio app by searching Herd. We're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, this is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening live in Los Angeles. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1, loaded show today. Joe Buck, Joel Clatt, Eric Decker, James Jones, who is Aaron Rogers guy.

Joy Taylor is joining me here on a Wednesday. Tomorrow's the big NFL game Rams Vikings. Joy, how are you? Good morning. It is great to be here. You know, sometimes people are made to feel special. Golfers have always felt special. Golfers make money.

It's expensive to be in a country club. You go to a golf club. There's Mercedes-Benz and BMWs and Range Rovers. A golfer walks into a club. He feels pretty special. He's got money. He's got his own locker. It bothers some golfers that Tiger Woods doesn't need golf.

Golf needs Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods is hovering above golf. There's golf and golf is fine. And then there's Tiger Woods who doesn't need the sport. But when he comes back and is good, the galleries explode. They quadruple in size. The ratings go up 300%. Golfers have always felt pretty special about themselves, have they not?

They're nice BMW, drive up to the country club. But the sport's kind of dying. It doesn't get ratings anymore. Even the Masters is down. Tiger is special. Golf has always been. hold their special. And it's the same with the Los Angeles Lakers.

The Los Angeles Lakers beat Lowe. Wilt and Jerry West, our player's a logo. Our best player, Jerry West, he's a logo. Orlando had Shaq. We get him. We got Kobe. We got a player named Magic. Lakers have always felt special.

And then LeBron James arrived in town. And yesterday, a Laker reporter asked LeBron about, if he, how he expected to earn the loyalty. Prove his loyalty to the Laker fans. Watch this exchange. LeBron, the L.A. fan base, how do you expect to earn their respect and earn their loyalty? Who, me? The fan base, yes.

Me? Yes, you. Huh? What do you say the fans that say they want to see you and earn their respect? I'll sign a four-year deal. I'm much more what you want me to do. Yeah. That's fine.

I mean, we talked to them outside of here yesterday. Listen, listen, I signed a four-year deal. I'm here, so I mean, I know what I bring to the table on the floor. L.A. wants a hug. Lakers want to feel special. How are you going to earn our loyalty? How do we know you love us? Are you going to be...

I signed a four-year deal. That's all our relationship is. You know how track stars, tennis players, golfers get appearance fees. Basically, the Lakers are paying LeBron a four-year appearance fee. That's it. That answer summed it up. You've always, is it cooler to win in L.A. than Memphis?

Yeah, because it's cooler to live in L.A. than Memphis. L.A.'s got palm trees on a beach, and it's 71 degrees in the winter. Yeah, it's cooler. There's stars everywhere. Go to lunch, you see, you know, Meg Ryan, you go to lunch, you see Tom Hanks. You see Denzel. It's cooler here. but it ain't because of the Lakers, folks. And LeBron, in that one answer, laid it out for you.

The Lakers have always felt special. No, the Lakers needed LeBron more than LeBron needed the Lakers. Get used to it. He's not going to give you a big hug. Teams are no longer special in the NBA. Superstars are. What are the Warriors? Take away Steph Curry and Kevin Durant.

They're the Grizzlies. They don't matter. The NBA owners. have always been comfortable with this, most of them except Dan Gilbert. Nobody cares about the logo. Nobody cares about the arena. Nobody cares about anything except the stars. And that's the greatness of LeBron.

He changed that in the NBA. It's not about the owner, the arena, the city. Yesterday, a reporter, innocently enough, is asking LeBron, it's actually kind of funny. How do you expect to earn the loyalty and respect for the L.A. fan base? LeBron loyal? Really? How does he expect to earn the respect of He doesn't care if you respect him?

He doesn't give a rip. This isn't 1970? I know, I know Jerry West was the logo. I know I know the Sky Hook. Shaq, Kobe, Magic. I get it, I get it. But be honest here, Laker fans. Be honest with yourself.

Philadelphia has better players. Embed, Ben Simmons, Dario Sarich. And LeBron, that's five straight trips to the finals. The Rockets have better players. Chris Paul, James Hardin, and LeBron would beat the Warriors. He did you a solid. LeBron did L.A. a solid. He should have gone to the L.A. Times, bought an ad and said, you're welcome,

like that soccer guy did for the L.A. Galaxy. You're welcome. You're welcome for having me. I mean, LeBron's always been into the long play and the big brand stuff. and that's what he's doing here. But if you're sitting around waiting for LeBron to give you a big hug and show you the respect and go, I'm not worthy. You had James Worthy.

That's the worthy you get. It's cooler to win in L.A. because L.A. is cooler than Oklahoma City. But five years, the last five years, do you know how's the lowest winning percentage in the NBA? The Lakers. You win less than 31% of your games. And if LeBron isn't here this morning,

you're going to be a 41 win team, 500. The Lakers, this sounds harsh, but you just won the naming rights for LeBron. He's the building, you're the banner. That's it. That's what this relationship is. That's all this relationship is right now. And listen to this question again. And by the way, I'm not picking on the reporter.

No idea who it is. But I'm hearing this over and over from Laker fans in L.A. media. There's 500 people at the Laker media. day, there was eight at the Clipper Media Day. It's not the city. Listen to the question again. LeBron, the L.A. fan base, how do you expect to earn their respect

and earn their loyalty? Who, me? The fan base, yes. Me? Yes, you. Huh? When you say the fans that say they want to see you and earn their respect? I'll sign a four-year deal.

How much more? What do you want me to do? Uh-huh. That's fine. I mean, we talked to them outside of here yesterday. Listen, listen, I sign a four-year deal. I'm here, so I mean, I know what I bring to the table on the floor. But that is cold, that is harsh, and that is 100. He is, as the kids say, he's keeping it real.

That's as real as it gets right there, folks. I signed a four-year deal. That's my loyalty. It's kind of a disrespectful notion that LeBron owes the Lakers fans something. Like the days of the golfers always felt special, Joy. golfers always felt special. Golfers always felt like I got my Mercedes, I got my membership, I get my tea time on Saturday,

and golf isn't special. Like Nike's cut out their golf mostly, Dick's sporting goods, no thanks, country clubs closing, nothing gets ratings. They tried a second golf channel it died. No, no, Tiger is special. Young millennials now don't spend seven hours on a Saturday playing bridge and putting.

They're home of their wife. They're being a good husband. Golf isn't special anymore. U.S. Open Masters, British Open. or fun. I like all of them. I watch all of them. But Tiger is elevated above the sport. The sport needs Tiger more than Tiger needs the sport. And LeBron, whether it's politics, the reason all these players move right now is LeBron. It used to be if you moved, you're a bad guy. Now if you don't move to a better team, you're an idiot. That's all LeBron. You follow his politics. You followed his

business models. You follow his training regimen. Everything LeBron does, everybody falls. He doesn't need the NBA right now. I got news for you. The last four years, he's carried the NBA finals because the pro bowl in the NFL gets better ratings than every NBA regular season game and the first and second round of the NBA playoffs, if LeBron's not playing.

So, and boy, the Lakers, that was a whew! That was a comeuppance. That was a harsh reality where LeBron looked at the reporter like, loyalty. You feel like I got to earn my

respect. You need to earn my respect. You've been a doormat. You've been a welcome mat for five years. I don't know you anything. I got to be honest with you. I love that. I got nothing against the Lakers. They're fun. And it is cooler to be a Laker than it is in Memphis Grizzly, but that's just because we're in L.A. and they're in Memphis. And it's cooler here. We have palm trees and movie stars. Coming up next, if you're a cowboy fan, I'm going to show you the most frightening thing you have perhaps seen in 20 years. If you just ate, turn away. I don't want you to get sick.

You have to see this on an empty stomach, because if you get nauseous, you may get very, very sick if you see this if you're a cowboy fan. Coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app.

Borrow up to 40 grand to pay off your credit cards. Lendingclub.com slash sports. Lendingclub.com slash sports. I hope you don't have 40 grand in your credit cards. That'd be terrible. If you need 40 grand for your credit cards, you've got to scale back on the crystal. But if you, what's the most you ever had in credit card debt, Joy? What?

Not 40 grand. I'm actually doing very good with my credit. I'm very proud of myself. Good for you. I feel very adultish. Yes. So this is the most horrifying thing that a Dallas Cowboy fan will see this year. on CBS Sports. It was a graphic, and I'm going to unveil it right now.

Dak Press got over his last 13 games is the exact same quarterback as Brock Osweiler. Yeah, I know. It's going to be hard to keep food down. That's not great. Okay. Now, everybody this morning, first of all, Dak had a great first year. Remember his first year, 13 and 3? A quarterback passer rating was 105, 68% completion percentage, 23 TDs, four picks. Had a great first year. So did Deshawn Watson. A lot of guys had great first years.

Mark Sanchez, we kind of butt into that. Everybody now's on Jason Garrett. We've got to get rid of Jason Garrett. Jason Garrett's no good. He's limited. Okay, take a deep breath on this. I want you to just think about this before you bang on your local NFL coach. There are seven or eight coaches in this league who are thought of to be really special offensive coaches, Sean Payton.

Sean McVey, Kyle Shanahan, Andy Reid, Matt Nagy, Doug Peterson, a Frank Reich who comes over from Philadelphia to Indianapolis with the Colts. Okay, have you noticed something with all these like offensive geniuses? Okay, these are some, okay, so right now, the talk of the league is Patrick Mahomes. He has an offensive genius Andy Reid. He appears to be the best. Let's see, why would that be? maybe because he is the best.

Now, Matt Nagy is supposed to be super clever, but Chicago's offense isn't great. That's because Trubisky's not great. Well, Drew Breeze, what about Drew Breeze and Sean Payton? All right, let's dig deeper. In the last two years, Drew Breeze has average less than one pass a game over 25 yards in the air.

Why? Because his arm is no longer elite. He's smart. He's good priest. snap, he's efficient, but even Sean Peyton is taking the best of Drew intelligence and accuracy, and he

knows he has limitations. By the way, have you noticed Andrew Luck is dink and dunk? Is that because Frank Reich wants to be dink and dunk? He wasn't with Carson Wence. No, Carson Wendt can throw the deep ball. Andrew Lack can no longer throw the deep ball. So Frank Reich is limited

to using the gifts his quarterback gives you. Sean McVeigh, what about Sean McVe? This is why I say, Jared Goff is better than you think. He can throw as good a deep ball as the league has right now, 64, 225, good pre-snap, mobile enough to move around, deadly accurate, was it Cal is in the NFL. You're all clobbering Jason Garrett.

When you look at all these offensive gurus, have you noticed they're as successful as the quality of their quarterback? Is Doug Peterson that much smarter than Matt Nagy? Andy Reid had both of them. No, the difference is Doug Peterson has Carson Wins. Matt Nagy has Mitch Trubisky. Okay, who sounds like my accountant. He came out of college.

I didn't like Mitch Trubisky. He didn't start his junior year. I didn't like Mitch Trubisky out of college. I was like, you ceiling. That Prescott's limited. 32 teams passed on him. 32 teams passed on him. I like that.

I like that. I'm pro-Dak. But he's got a low ceiling. It's a little lower than I thought. Jason Whitten leaves. Des Bryant leaves and his limitations are being magnified. But we're all on the coach, even the greatest offensive coaches in this league. What do you bet that Kyle Shanahan's offense doesn't look the same in the next 13 weeks with C.J.

Bethard, as it did in the last nine times he's had Jimmy Garoppolo. Again, the greatest chef can't use four-day-old bagels. What's the quality the chef has? Andy Reid's blowing the league up. Because Patrick Mahomes the most talented up all these guys. Even the gurus have limitations if you have a limited quarterback. I'm not calling Jason Garrett a great guru, but he was 13 and 3 a couple of years ago. Jason Garrett knows what he's doing.

I mean, he knows what he's doing. Jerry Jones would run him out of town. Jerry Jones has run a lot of guys out of town. Dax Limited. His ceiling's lower than guys like me who liked him thought. It's lower than I thought. Joy of the news. No, no, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So Vegas has released their updated Super Bowl odds. And surprise, surprise, the Rams. And the Chiefs are on top. The third undefeated team, my dolphins, not get any love, although they only beat the Titans and the Raiders and the Jets. Yeah.

They're not in the top 10 best odds. It's the Rams, the Chiefs, Patriots, the Jags, the Eagles, Saints, Steelers, Vikings. This looks like our herd hierarchy. It does, actually. Except for you had the dolphins in your hierarchy this week. I had the dolphins at 10, but that's about those are the best. But I don't think that was your, I think that's your, not your Super Bowl hierarchy right now. But that's almost, no, I didn't have New England in either, and I'll get to that later.

I don't have the Packers in there either, did you? No, I don't. I don't think they're a bunch of men, Aaron Rogers. I think Aaron Rogers is great. And then it's just a bunch of stuff. And now Mohammed Wilkerson's out for the year. One of their corners is hurt. It's a bunch of stuff right now.

Look at those chiefs, though. Look at them more weeks to keep this up. All right. So Swaggy Bee has the city of Cleveland all hype and after leading the Browns to their first win in 635 days. He's also becoming buzz around the organizations. Let's take listen to his teammate, Bichard Higgins.

I keep seeing this thing, like the Baker's error and stuff. You know, if it pans out how it's supposed to be, you know, Baker might be the next big thing, and he might be on the LeBron wall, what I like to call it, you see what. I'm excited to see what he can bring. to the team, you know, nothing but good things for them, so far. That optimism back in the land. Let's slow down.

What just one win will do? Come on. They've lost 22 straight road games. It's Cleveland. I can't help it. It's the LeBron Wall. Well, it's like there are cities that I would call low self-esteem sports cities. They've been beaten down.

The New York Mets are a low self-esteem franchise. because they've been in the shadow forever of the Yankees. And so they acquired Jason Bay, who was a bad fit for their roster and their outfield because they felt like they had a sign of free agent. And the Clippers have been a low self-esteem sports franchise because they play in the shadow of the Lakers. Ohio's had a lot of bad football outside of Ohio State. And so they're going a little overboard. A little bit.

To be clear, I fully support Baker Mayfield being great in Cleveland. He has great content. So I want the Browns to be good with Baker Mayfield. But the LeBron Wall, I feel like, should be held to a slightly higher standard. So you don't believe a Tristan Thompson wall is coming soon? Ooh. All right. Finally, the Cavs, their win of the Lakers in December.

You remember LeBron had this conversation with Lonzo and he covered his mouth when he was speaking to him after the game. And he was asked about it. He didn't want to provide any of the details of that conversation. Well, he's giving them up now. What the gist of it was, you know, at the end of the day, no one can define who you are but yourself. You know, when you're young, you get caught up and listening to what people say, what people thinking that you should be, people saying what your game should be. But at the end of the day, you know, no one can define who you are besides yourself.

And if you put in the work, you commit to the game, then the game will give back to you. And that's all that's about. So, you know, Zoe got a lot of talent. You could tell you loves the game. You could tell his teammates love playing with him, you know, so he's going to be great for this franchise. I can't wait to watch those two. Of all the Laker LeBron teammates, it all seems to work with me, but

Lonzo needs the ball to be effective. He's not a spot-up shooter. Lonso needs the ball to be effective, and there's one ball, and they both need it. I can't wait to watch it. That's of all the relationships with LeBron. LeBron makes everything work a little better. He's like butter to a chef. Everything's a little better with butter.

This is the most interesting, though. Yeah, the whole Lanzo LeBron thing, their games don't. It's like Ben Simmons and LeBron. One of the reasons I didn't like it, but Ben can't shoot. So if LeBron's got the ball, what's Ben going to do? He's not a spot-off guy. So like Lonzo and Ben Simmons, they need the ball because they're not great shooters to be effective. And LeBron is the ball.

This might be a bit of a change for LeBron, though, because if LeBron has a point guard and he doesn't have to play that role, that's less work for him. I know, but he likes that. He likes to control stuff. Maybe. Maybe at this point in his career he wants to evolve a little bit and not necessarily do less, but not have to run the offense all the the time. Lonzo's not going to be out there in the beginning. It's going to be Rondo.

So he's going to have to adjust to that anyway. But the most interesting thing about this story is that, you know, all the critics that were like, oh, Bronson's never going to play with Lonzo. How could he ever deal with Lonzo? And he's here. Here they are. Right down the street. Joy Taylor with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. He's called five Super Bowls, 19 World Six Series. 16 in succession, seven-time Emmy winner, three-time national sportscaster of the year. He's been the lead broadcaster at Fox Baseball in the NFL since he was nine years old. His name is Joe Buck. Let's bring him on.

It's great to have him. We only get your presents a couple times a year, partner, so it's nice. By the way, cowboy boots again today? Are you tracking my outfits now? Well, I saw you yesterday, and I like the cowboy boots. They're not really. They're like ankle-high things. Oh, okay.

and I'm on a limited wardrobe because I'm on a long road trip. Oh, you are? You're lucky you didn't get the same shirt. Seattle, Los Angeles, he's St. Louis Base. This is Joy Taylor. Hi, Joy. Hello. So you've done all these games through all the years, World Series.

Do I get to talk about the Dak Prescott, garbage you dispute? Hey, let's slow down on that, Mr. Lead announcer. Let we get to that. So you've done all these magnificent games, and then you get a Jets Browns game, and you're probably thinking, boy, I'm going to have to make something out of this. And it ended up being fascinating and I couldn't turn the television. And it was one of the games you did. And I was sitting there, you guys were funny, you and Troy, and I'm thinking, they're

having fun. This is really a live TV event. Yeah, I'm glad you'd notice that because I really think that we are actually having a lot of fun. And maybe that's kind of a function of how many games we're doing or what's in the offing with what's coming our way with these kind of double-dip weeks. but I think there's room to have some fun. And I think the most important part of my job,

along with getting names and numbers right, is to bring personality out of Troy. And I think the more I can show what I see from Troy in the meeting room and at dinner and at the hotel, I think we're all better off. But I think that he's better served because he's got a great sense of humor. He's relaxed.

It's good. It's a quarterback league now. now. So all of a sudden, you get a glimpse of Baker and Troy get, now, Troy did the NFL draft for us. So Troy's very well schooled now on all these young quarterbacks, five new guys. So what were your impressions, what were Troy's impressions of Baker Mayfield? You know, when we had them in the preseason and they brought both quarterbacks in together, so there really wasn't a whole lot of one-on-one time with Baker Mayfield for Troy. I know he thinks a lot of him. To Troy, his number one pick would have been

Darnold. But there was always this wild card, Mayfield, because he was a walk-on at OU. He was one of those guys who just kind of always fought his way to the top of the pile. And now here he is is the number one overall pick. And I know you're not fully on the bandwagon. He did some college nonsense, I don't like, grabbing your stuff. And I'm not into that joke. Yeah, no, I know. And but I'm, I mean, as far as as arm strength, leadership, I didn't know we had the arm strength. I didn't see it. It's better than I thought.

I did not see a ton of Oklahoma football games. But when he came in and showed what he can do, fitting the ball in, having some life, I mean, the entire game and the feel in that stadium changed, and he delivered a win. Pure and simple, he won that game.

You know, I wanted to shift to John Gruden. One of the criticisms I said of John Gruden, I know John, I like him. I thought he was a terrific broadcaster. There's very few people that talk and pop. And John would do that quarterback camp, Monday Night Football.

And John talks, and he has that staccato kind of delivery, and he talks in eight-second sound bites, and he's got the face, and he talks. And it's like he's doing a little stand-up and a little football analyst work. But I said, there's some industries, you can leave the post office for 10 years, come back, you're all good. But if you leave football in Silicon Valley, they change hourly. And you're watching Gruden. You know the TV business.

It's a lonely existence. You fly into a town, you go to your hotel room, you go to the stadium, you have a lead producer. That's John's existence for 10 years. Now he walks into a politically engaged NFL. Players have more power. And he's got to talk and take care of this guy and that guy. And I kind of feel like he's struggling. He's still a TV star.

And he's owning these press conferences and he won't stop talking. And he keeps stepping in it. And TV is a different business, Joe. No, you're right. And it's one thing that bothered Troy when he first got out because there is no scoreboard. That's what bothered Troy. Like you don't walk out of the booth and somebody goes, well, you won today. you guys are 2-0.

Good luck and keeping the streak alive next week. There's no scoreboard. Nobody cares. Barely, you can do a Super Bowl, and somebody, some executive will go, yeah, yeah, good, good job. And then they'll just move on. That's about all you get. So that is something that is the good and the bad of being a broadcaster. I think John's life was probably pretty darn good, the whole fired football coaches of America thing,

and watching film and going and doing the game, and then. getting out and living his life. Now there is a scoreboard. Now you are answering for a 53-man roster and an owner and a franchise that's about to move and a passionate fan base. And you had a guy like Khalil Mack who's, you know, one of the top talents, forget defensive players, top athletes in the NFL, and you just shipped them away. And then you can't generate a pass rush and you say finding good pass rushers is hard to do. Well, you just had them. Yeah. So there's a lot there that I'm sure he's remembering and probably going, you know what?

Working at ESPN and doing Monday Night Football wasn't so bad. It's not. And, you know, the money was good. The money was good at ESPN too for him. And now he's got all these other things pulling at him. He's got a lot of work ahead of him. So when the Rams left from St. Louis to Los Angeles, if I recall you were hot. Yeah.

You were not happy with Stan Cronky. You were hot because you're a St. Louis guy. You love the Midwest. You still love the Midwest. Your kids are there. It's awesome. And then, you know, glamorous hip L.A. comes in and it's like,

and we bring the dishes out here. But now you kind of look at the Rams and you look at McVeigh and you look at their money and they're really exciting. And you're doing the game tomorrow against the Vikings. It's the best game of the weekend. I got to be honest with you. It feels like the leagues better with the Rams in L.A.

than St. Louis. Well, okay, and I got to be honest with you, the version of the Rams that we had in St. Louis didn't have Sean McVeigh, didn't have Jared Gough, didn't have good draft picks, didn't have, that team was terrible. And so my frustration was that

the sports fan in St. Louis for the second time had the football team taken away, and the perception is because they don't support the NFL, which is ludicrous. You saw it at the PGA championship. You know, people will come out of the woodwork.

when you go, you at least meet them halfway and say, we're trying as an organization. They were building toward a move at the last three or four years. They knew where they were headed. I don't begrudge Stan Cronky for coming out here, making, when you saw the value of the franchise, went through the roof. It was bottom five, now it's top five. Yeah.

And for good reason. But this is a good, young, exciting team. Oh, God, yeah. If you pick this team up and put it back in St. Louis, you think they're having a tough time selling tickets and fill in a stadium? They're not. I promise you that. Because when they were the greatest show on turf,

that was easily the toughest ticket I ever had to try to get for friends and family back in St. Louis. That place was packed. So it's a little bit different. It's apples to oranges when you compare what the Rams are now to what they were when they like. I like your love for St. Louis. I'm very fond of that.

Well, I thought it was bad for the city. To me, I want to see St. Louis prosper. I want to see downtown grow. when you take an NFL franchise out and they had plans for a new stadium and now all that's just scrapped, I think it's bad for the city. And again,

I thought the St. Louis sports fan or football fan was not accurately represented in that whole transaction. So are you... But I'm glad, you know, on the other hand, let me put on the other hat.

The Fox hat. The Rams being great in L.A. It's big. It's great for everything. Yes. And so that's a different conversation. I'm just glad they're good and they are and I think they're easily the best team in the NFC you could make the argument

with what they have on defense when healthy they're the best team clearly in the NFL so you know it's interesting are you do you know Aaron Rogers because you've done a million of his games yeah and I would think he would like you you guys are smart and uh you know you're culturally you know kind of hip you're very hip you're very very with it yeah he hates me and I'm okay with that because I think he's got a little rabbit ears he's Kevin Durant a little bit You know, he's not married, doesn't have a bunch of kids. So, like, unlike Brady who sits, watches game film and hangs out with his kids, you know, the Kevin Durant, the Aaron Rogers, you go home and you got an extra hour, you're on, you know, the little bird. Yeah.

But here's my thing. Is this a fair criticism of Aaron Rogers? Is that he can be, I've, forget the family stuff. I've heard teammates take shots this and that. He's a little California cool. He's a little improvisational. Sometimes Brady's more coachable. and that Aaron, there's a reason

quarterbacks don't get to as many Super Bowls. Sometimes Aaron could be a little more coachable, slightly less hip, a little less ad libby, and that some of Aaron's lack of success post seasons on Aaron, or do I sound like a jerk? No, I don't think you sound like a jerk, but I think you can't celebrate him for what he does out of the pocket

and what he does when plays break down and then say that he's two, add Libby or say that he should be more coachable. I think without him, that team is average at best. Oh, God, let. And I don't think it all comes down to the quarterback. I heard what you said about

Dak Prescott. You were very mad at that. You're hot at that, too. Oh, so hot. I was just feuding over there. What bothered you about that? Because you cannot, it is absolutely simplistic at best to look at a team's fortunes and just go right to the quarterback and put it all on the quarterback. The comparison that they had on

CBS to Brock Osweiler. Let me know when Brock Osweiler went 13 and 3. Let me know which Dak Prescott did. Let me know when Brock Osweiler had a team that really circled as a rookie, as a fourth round pick. This guy was phenomenal. Now they don't have an outside threat. They don't have a tight end. Patrick Mahomes has Tyree Kill and Travis Kelsey. Those are pretty good players. Well, it's Sammy Watkins and he's got everything. Okay. And he's got an offensive line. He's only have been sacked four times. Dak Prescott every time he drops back has got hands in his face, people all over him.

They can't really run the ball. I know Zeke had a good game Sunday in Seattle, but it was a quiet good game. He's not had the kind of room he's typically had. So you're very, you like Dak. I think Dak is everything you'd want in a quarterback. He's tough. He's smart. People on his team love him, offense,

defense. What's Troy thing? Does Troy loves him? Loves him. Well, he loves him. Loves the guy. thinks the guy is as solid as the day is long. So guys like me who says he's got a little bit of a low ceiling. Alex Smith. I think everybody's got a low ceiling with an average offensive line

and average at best receivers, no tight end. Yeah, I think everybody looks pretty low ceiling in that category. I saw you in the hallway yesterday. You made me sad. I drove home thinking about you because Joe Buck travels the world. five Super Bowls. There's very few people, and I'm not going to embarrass you. I would just say, in my generation

of sportscasters, I hold Joe to the highest regard of anybody. Very few people I get nervous around. I'm sweating right now talking to Joe Buck. But the point is, you told me something yesterday that kind of freaked me out. I can't wait to hear where this goes. Okay, so you told me, I said,

you were up in my hometown Seattle. And I said, did you go to Pike Place Market? Did you go to the first Starbucks? And he's like, you know, I just sat in my room. And I said, Seattle and September, you stayed in your room. Yeah. That you didn't go out. No.

I went to... This is what Joe Buck does in Seattle. He sits in his room. That's good. Is that what you do? What kind of an art department are you hiding here? You were in Seattle, in September. And why do you have cameras in my room, more importantly?

Thank God. This must have been about 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Thank God. Troy Aikman is on Twitter and Instagram, taking beautiful pictures of the sunset. He's enjoying the airs. Oh, he pays people to go do that for. He sits in his room too.

I want to go to my room. I want to turn the thermostat to 67. I want to get under my covers and read. I will go work out. I did go to a flywheel in Seattle. But I don't care about the, hey, in this great restaurant with this unbelievable paté that I've had in Seattle. I'm going to go to sightseeing and throw fish and go to the first Starbucks. I couldn't care less.

It pisses my wife off to no end. Really? She's a restaurant person and a foodie and a wine lover. She's this stunning, beautiful, smart woman that wants to see the world. And here's you in the room. There's me. But I'm not wearing cowboy boots, so that's got to make you happy. Yeah, that's pretty much me.

I have a lot of work to do. I have reading. I have to show up on Thursday tomorrow and act like I've watched every minute of every game of the Vikings and the Rams. When they kick off. That requires a lot of reading. You just summed up my career. I've got to pretend like I watch this stuff. It's a lot of work.

I feel your pain. I mean, you got the NBA. I don't even touch that. That's in a bin that I don't visit. Joe Bocke, you know I love having you on the show. You know, I love coming on. And I feel so bad because Joy is way over there, and I've not looked at her one damn time. I'm way closer than I used to be.

Yeah, I used to have around in the room closet. And then I would have to do this. The mic's over here. If I talk to you, then I got to do that. Maybe we should change the angle of the chair a little more. Joe Buck, back in a second. It's the herd. Don't be the guy in the room with a long, sloppy, looking on tuck shirt.

Go to untucket.com code herd, untucket.com code H-E-R-D for 20% off. Jerry Jones, this is really interesting yesterday. So Jerry, he was talking about, you know, there's roughing the pass or penalties or that every year we have like a rule and people freak out. And for a couple years, it was the catch rule that didn't pre-season. season, it was the helmet rule call. Now everybody's freaking out about the quarterback calls, the roughing the passer calls. And Jerry Jones went on Dallas radio. He doesn't love it. He thinks the NFL should be more physical and he had this to say. The way after football, I see it reflected at the high school level. And I see a collegiate game that certainly has a lot of finesse in it,

but is a great game and makes these kinds of adjustments we're talking about. But when it comes to pro football, to use a boxing term, that's when you put the six-ounce gloves on. You don't fight with those 10-outs, or you don't fight with those head gears. Everybody's being really paid-type situations that have more risk in them. First of all, it's a very interesting quote. Basically, Jerry says, once you get paid millions of dollars, part of the deal is you take more hits and that it's more physical, and you get hurt more at the NFL level.

But it's funny, it does sound, you know, I think there, that's how he sees the NFL. You're not going to get paid in college. You're not going to get paid in high school. But once you get to the NFL, you put the big boy gloves on. This, no head gear for boxing. This is where we pay you to get hurt. I don't know how that lands for a lot of people, but that's what he's saying. But the other thing is, what I notice in pro football, and I think it's, I see it more

and more, it's the opposite, is that Bill Parcells used to always say, as an NFL coach, I can only do with what college gives me. And if you look at right now, the leaders in the NFL on some of the most explosive offenses, they're using college offenses. The Philadelphia Eagles, Kansas City, Green Bay, Carolina. By the way, Cam's having a very good year right now. They're using what they call run-pass option. That's college stuff, RPO's.

Sounds real tricky. It's not. It's basically the quarterback runs. There's some option stuff, run-pass option. That's a college offense. The flow of information now goes from college to pro football. When I watch the NFL now, I see college football all over it. When I watch college football, I don't see pro football all over it.

The tunnel has shifted that the NFL is now copying college football. And by the way, college football is getting more RPO friendly, which is college now takes the best athlete and puts them at quarterback, the kid at Alabama to us. they take the best athlete. Well, that's what's going to the NFL. It used to be the best compliment you could give a college football quarterback. This was the best thing you could say. He plays in a pro-style offense in college.

Nobody cares. Even the Big 12 now. Deshawn can play. Baker can play. So, you know, it's just the template in Jerry Jones's eyes is, we're the NFL. This is how the game should be. played and the other stuff is amateur. And when you get here, you've got to change your game. But when I watch the NFL, Mitch Trubisky, Deshaun Watson, Cam Newton, Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson,

Carson Wentz, that's college stuff. That's a heavy emphasis on college football offense, Patrick Mahomes. A lot of that stuff's what they're doing in college. And they're bringing it up to the NFL. So the other point he makes is very interesting is once I pay you, you're going to get hurt. Up here, we're going to pay you and we're going to pay you a lot of money and up here that money is what you have to, what you get for the hits. I'm not sure how that lands for a lot of people. It probably, I mean, it's not as eloquent as I think he meant for it to be. It kind of lands a little strange when they don't have lifetime health care benefits. So it's kind of like, are you actually paying them to do that? Bucky Brooks, a former player and Scout was on our show. He

He talked about this that the super highway of information doesn't go NFL to college anymore. It really goes college to the NFL. So now the trend in the league is to get a play caller that is able to look at what they did in college and immediately put it into the offense so they can have success as a young player. And then with each year, it goes as an evolution from what they did in college to now need you to be able to do what we want to do by year three. We saw that with Jared Gough and how Sean McVeigh has taken him and kind of put him in a situation to succeed. We saw it in Carson Wentz. Everyone loves Carson Wentz.

But the Philadelphia Eagles ran more RPO's than any other team in the league. You have to find a way to help your young quarterbacks be successful so they can have a chance to develop into the guys that you think they may be down the road. Yeah, I mean, the NFL's king. There's no doubt about that. It's a ratings king. And I mean, it's whenever I hear anybody say the NBA is catching up. to the NFL, they're not. But what the NFL has done very well in its existence, I think this is the strength of the NFL, it's very elastic. It is taking bits of the NBA, celebrations, wide receivers, and allowing it in the NFL.

And it's, again, it's very elastic. The NFL, baseball is very rigid. Basketball and football, football especially, the NBA NFL, is very elastic. It's willing to move and morph into a bunch of different things. took the XFL camera views. Remember the XFL had all those zany camera views? NFL stole them. And college football, RPO stuff, it's stealing it. And the NBA, let's make our players stars. What are they making in the NFL with quarterbacks? Superstars, global stars. So the NFL is elastic. They are willing to be amenable to change. But in this instance, I think Jerry's

wrong. I don't think it's about the NFL having a, this is the way you should play football. I think the NFL is a better game over time if it's less violent. And it's more offense. And it's a little more finesse. I've never watched the game for defense. I watch it for stars. I want to see O'Dell Beckham. Not a nose tackle.

It's the herd. Ah, this is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, live in Los Angeles, Iheart radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Nine years in the NFL eight with the Packers, James Jones. In five minutes, we'll be joining us. Joy Taylor, alongside. I want to thank Joe Buck for stopping by Joel Clatt.

Eric Decker, who just retired from the NFL, will be joining us in a little over an hour from now. It's great to have you in on a Wednesday. Tomorrow Rams Vikings, a great game. On Tuesdays, I do the herd hierarchy. You've been doing it for years, the 10 best teams in the NFL. Now, for the first time ever since I've been at FS1 at Fox Sports, I did not have New England in my top 10.

And after the show, everybody was like, why didn't you have New England in your top 10? And I said, because I trust my eyes. And right now, you double grunk, you put. put eight in the box. They don't have anybody on the perimeter that scares people. You have to force defensive coordinators to lay awake at night thinking, well, if I pressure them, they'll burn me over the top. They don't have anybody that can do that. Now, Julie and Edelman comes back. That'll help their efficiency. But I still, this is the way I've always looked at football. I trust my eyes.

And when I watch college football, I see five teams that can win the national championship. Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Clemson, and Ohio State. That's who can win the national title. Other teams could go undefeated. They don't pass the eyeball test. What I've always done is I turn the sound down. I don't want any narratives from announcers. I don't want any bias.

I don't want to be swayed. And I've told Joy about this. I turn the sound down on sporting events sometimes just to trust my eyes. Who is imposing their will on somebody else? And when I watch the Patriots, they're not done. dynamic enough. I just don't see it right now. They play Miami this weekend, and I think Miami is going to, I think it's a coin flip. I think Miami's got more dynamic athletes. Now, is New England's coach good enough to win a Super Bowl? Yeah. Is their quarterback good enough to win a Super Bowl? Yeah. Is there

special teams good enough to win a Super Bowl? Yeah. Are they situationally good enough to win a Super Bowl? Yeah. There's a lot of yes there. But I'm telling you, in terms of athletes, I do not see it. After the loss to Detroit, listen to Tom Brady. I thought it was very telling his emotional state after this loss. I mean, we're not scoring enough points. We're not executing well enough on a down-by-down basis, certainly at a high level that we should have our expectations set at. Two weeks we get behind and just not making enough plays early in the game.

And we're behind and we're just fighting a pill all day. So it's no way to play football. It's no way to execute at a very high level. and we're just not doing anything well enough. He's not angry. He has resigned to the fact, we don't have enough good players. That's not an angry dad. That's not a dad that's angry at his smart son failing a test.

That's an angry dad coming to terms with maybe what his kid is. You know what I mean? Like that's not an angry quarterback. That is a quarterback saying, this is what we are. We don't have any deep threats. Philip Dorset was kind of a bust. Indy, Josh Gordon's history leads me to believe this probably won't work out. He sounds indifferent.

It's just like he's not an angry guy. Listen, I like systems. But systems have limitations. Greg Popovich's system in San Antonio's not nearly as good now that Tim Duncan's retired. If you look at the Patriots offense, is Julian Edelman going to solve all these? They're 25th in points, 25th in yards, 25th and sixth in passing, 29th on third down. Is Julian Edelman going to solve those? Oh, by the way, Rex Burkhead announced this morning, he's out for the year.

Turn the sound down. They're just not dynamic enough. And football, sometimes you hear the announcers, you hear the crowd, and they sway your opinion. It's like if I was a player and I'm watching game film, I'm watching a 22 film, you're seeing the truth. You're not being swayed. You're seeing who can play and who can't play. And I look at New England, and they're not a top 10 team. Coach is, quarterback is, got to have players.

It's why you've got to pay players. Systems have limitations. With that, NFL network, James Jones, nine years, eight with a Packers, Super Bowl champion, eight years with Aaron Rogers, let's bring James Jones on the show. By the way, James is not only a media member, he is breaking stories now. You actually, you broke the Aaron Rogers extension story on Twitter to explain how you became, You became News Adam Schaefter Peter Schroger guy. So check it out, man.

First of all, it was the most stressful time of my life. I mean, I felt like I was getting $100 million guaranteed in my bank account. I wasn't. I was telling Aaron like, man, I've been a lot of two-minute drills with you. I won a Super Bowl. Never was nervous. Just do your job, catch the ball. But he called me on the phone and was like, all right, JJ, it's about to go down.

What do you need to know? My wife had had the tweet and all that already. set up. We just needed to plug the numbers in. So as I'm on the phone with Aaron, people are blowing her phone up like, is he going to break the story? What's going on? You know what I mean? Adam Schaffner's reporting this. Ian's reporting this. What's going on? I'm on the phone with Aaron. And then everybody's blowing my phone up. I'm looking. And Aaron's like, okay, these are the numbers, blah, blah, blah, 100 million. And I'm like, this is stressful. I said, after this, I'm hanging up my cleats from breaking news. I'm done. It's way too stressful. But that was

Cool? Yeah, but we were able to get it done, man. It was cool. Aaron gave you a solid. You know, I talk about this with Aaron. Aaron's different. Aaron's gifted. And there are burdens with being great.

Okay, there's a lot more pressure on LeBron James than a good NBA player, you know, Darren Collison. Yeah. There's pressure. And Aaron's this California guy and he's in small town Milwaukee. And being a quarterback for replacing Brett Farve is ludicrous. It's like replacing Jordan. It's ludicrous. Nobody can do it.

sometimes Aaron's like RELAX, a little standoffish, you have a good relationship with him, okay, a very good relationship. Not everybody, Jemichael Finley struggled a little. Greg Jennings called him out once or twice. He's not for everybody. Why do you work with him? Why did you guys connect so well? Well, I think since day one, Aaron's a type of guy where it's all about respect.

And since day one, I've been the same guy. When I walk in the building, you're going to get the same JJ. You know, and I think that kind of me and Aaron kind of hit off on the right foot. He knows. JJ's going to come in. This is how JJ's going to be. And it's always been about respect with me and Aaron. You know, yeah, it'll be times where, you know, he tells me.

I'm wrong. I tell him he's wrong. But it's always been about respect. And our relationship has grown. And, I mean, he flies down. Come watch my kid play flag football. Really? Him and my little son think they best friends, you know.

Anne Rogers comes down. Everybody taking pictures with him. My little son just goes up to him, gives him knuckles. Like, what up, dude? You're just another guy, you know what I'm saying? So you have a really good. So you have a really cool relationship. I do, man.

It's a special relationship. Absolutely. You know, it's interesting. I was bothered when the Packers didn't. Once the news came out, the bears were interested in Kahliel Mack. If I ran Green Bay, I would rather Aaron face him in practice than 10 times over the next five years, minimum. Yeah. And my takeaway was, listen, I'm watching the Rams by players.

I'm watching the Eagles by players. And I'm watching Green Bay say, who by the way, hasn't paid Aaron big money until the recent contract. Green Bay is like, you know, we can't afford to keep these guys. I thought Green Bay made a mistake. Yes. I think Khalil Mack, I really do. I think Aaron is, and he's only giving me 35 pretty quick. Aaron's not 6-5-280.

Been banged up a couple times. I think they made a strategic Aaron Green Bay not going after Mack. Agree or disagree? Absolutely agree. I mean, you're talking about a once-in-a-generational player in Khalil Mac. You get him and you got Clay Matthews on the other side, you know, even though they keep robbing and Clay Matthews. he's for sacks.

You know, you get Khalil over there. I mean, with Aaron being hurt right now and you got those two guys over there helping you out on the defensive end, I mean, it changes the whole, it changes the whole season, you know? Is Aaron ever been frustrated? He may not voice it. But has he ever been frustrated looking at Brady's defenses and looking at Big Ben and looking at other, you know, have there been moments that privately Aaron's been like, we could use

a little help here? He's never came out to me and said it. ever said it publicly, so I don't know. But I mean, as players, you always feel like it's your fault anyway. Like when we were there and we were putting up 35 points a game and say we may have lost, we always came back like, damn, we let this one go. We could have had 42 and we could have won the game. So as players, you always look at it like that. You never blame it on the defense. You never put it on your defense. And I was just talking to my man in the back. I'm like, we blew some opportunities. We were 15 and 1 and we lost to the Giants first round.

That has nothing to do with the defense, nothing to do with the – we just played bad. They beat us up. Then we 13 and 3, we lose to the Giants again, you know. So we blew some opportunities, and, you know, if we don't blow them, Aaron's sitting here with three rings, then it's a totally different talk. You know what I mean? Defense is good. Offense put up points.

So it's always hard to look at it like that. But as players, you always feel like you could have did more. You don't just blame it on your defense. Green Bay is very unique. Most NFL teams are in big cities. and Buffalo is a big city compared to Green Bay. So you played nine years, eight Packers, one with the Raiders. Take your time on this.

Take my audience into being a pro athlete in Green Bay. Dude, it is totally different. It is absolutely, totally different. You can catch one ball and you can't go around nowhere in the city without people recognizing you. You could be on practice squad and you not even play the snap yet. And you walk around and they know where college you went to. know your family, know your nicknames.

They know everything about you. I mean, it's small town. It's a special place to play. What is a small town? The fans are unbelievably dedicated. I mean, you could be on practice squad and be out there signing autographs, making 10,000 an autograph sign

and never even caught a ball on the field. That's just how dedicated these fans. I could, but I definitely will get bugged and people will be around there, coming down the aisles, taking pictures, which is all good. But, yes, you cannot walk around in Green Bay. and try to be incognito.

So if you want to go out for a night, you got a day off? Yeah. You're going to Applebee's in Green Bay or you're going to Milwaukee? I'm going to Applebee's in Green Bay because I ain't making the Milwaukee drive. So I'm going to Applebee's in Green Bay. And, I mean, people will come up to you and ask for pictures and all that. But the locals that's there, I mean, they'll just see you get you a head. So what's it like for Aaron?

Oh, man, I mean, somebody got to go get his food, you know. He can't go grocery shopping for him and all that. He can't just be walking. walking around out there. He can't. It's crazy. I mean, he does go to restaurants and all that. I mean, we've been out, restaurants had dinner and all that, but I mean, it's just... You know what I always thought? I've never, I've never been to Green Bay. It's one of the only places, great hollowed, you know, stadiums in America. Oh, you got to go, man. You know what I always thought, that if I was the Packers, and maybe this is true,

I don't know this to be true because I haven't. I've been to Madison, Wisconsin, which is a great little town, great college town. That's a great university. And I've been to Chicago a ton, but not Green Bay. And I've been to Milwaukee twice. I always thought if I was the Packers, I would have, you know, with all the money they make, I would have built a kind of world-class restaurant with a lot of VIP rooms so my players would have a place in town to go.

Not that the public couldn't go, but that Packer players could go and at least kind of hide. I mean, they got restaurants like that. They do? Yeah, you go get a little private room sitting in the back. They got some restaurants like that in the back, yeah. So they got a little tinted window area. Yeah, they know if you're a Packer player,

you call in, hey, can I get a reservation this time? Okay. that put you in the back, you know, away from people a little bit, so you had some privacy. I was talking about the Patriots, and I'm a big believer that I trust my eyes in football. I can watch Chicago's offense right now, and I don't love Tribisky, but I can tell you that's a clever offense. I can watch the Rams and go, that's really well coached. I can see when a defense is limited like New England, but they're rarely in the wrong place. My eyes tell me with the Patriots, I'm not seen enough.

athletes. On the offensive side, James, I get system, but the spurs don't win unless Duncan's in the system. I'm watching them against Detroit. Detroit put eight in the box, doubled Gronk and said, go ahead. Take your shots downfield. Am I overreacting? It doesn't look the same. I think you are overreacting. Number one, the last time they lost two games in September was 2014 and they won the whole thing. Last year, we were sitting here saying their defense was garbage early in the season. There's no way that they're going to win any ball games. They ended up in the Super Bowl. The positive about all this is your system player is there, and that's Tom Brady. Yeah. And you do have Gronk, and once Edelman comes back and you get Josh Gordon in there,

you got some help on the way. And with Josh, it's all about just you could come in and run two routes. You run a go route like Brandon Cooks and a curl. But it's just you being out there on the field, even if you make a couple plays, it's going to get. people from treating Grunk like a gunner and putting two guys on them at the line of scrimmage jamming them giving it off. Now Gronk will have some free releases, be able to have some one-on-ones, and then Edelman will be able to have some one-on-one. So you got help on the way, and you've been there done that before. You lost two games in September before. It looked bad, and you ended up in the Super Bowl.

By the way, you go back to your rookie year. You played at San Jose State. Who was your college quarterback? Adam Teferralis. Yeah, I don't know him. So you go from Adam Teferalus to Aaron Rogers. To Brett Farve, then Aaron. Holy moly.

So, fair question. Who's got the better arm? Aaron Rogers. Easy. Well, let's slow down the easy. It's crazy you say that because when I had got to Green Bay, I caught passes from Brett, my rookie year. Got a lot of balls from Brett. Then Aaron came in.

And when I first got there, I was catching passes from Aaron because we were on the second team together. So I'm catching all Aaron's passes. So I had to go up to Donald Driver because Donald has been there catching passes from all these guys, caught some passes from Brett and his prime as well. And I'm like, who throws the ball harder? And he was like, yeah, Aaron got him. And I said, I knew that, but I was just saying because I caught Brett in his later years, so, you know, he could have lost a little, but he was like, no, Aaron definitely

throws it harder. You know, it's funny, I watched Aaron play a bunch at Cal. And he was a little more mechanical. He kept the ball up. Now he's much more confident. I don't remember him having this arm. I remember he had a good arm. I watched him play at L.A. against the Trojans, and I'm like, oh, he's got good arm.

It's almost like it got better in the league. It's like it got better once he got into the league. Especially when it gets cold. I mean, you wish he didn't have such a strong one when it get cold, breaking their fingers. James Jones. Great having on the show. Appreciate it, man. Thanks for having.

You live out in L.A. now? I'm in Arizona. This is a good life for you. Packers, NFL network, media stuff, good for you. Joel Clatton, 25 minutes on college football, a couple of big ones this weekend. Coming up next, I'm doubling down. Baker, Baker, Money Clip Maker. He made me $1,000 last week.

This week, I'm going the other way. on Baker Mayfield. I'll talk about that coming up next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Thursday nights are about to get a lot bigger as Fox becomes the new network home for Thursday night football. It's the Vikings and the undefeated Rams in a battle of NFC heavyweights.

Tomorrow at 730 Eastern on Fox, also live on NFL network and streaming on Amazon Prime. Now it's a game. A good game. By the way, Rams' cornerback situation is iffy. remarkably Marcus Peters may play. If Marcus Peters can play, I like the Rams. If you watch the injury, I have no idea how Marcus Peters can play.

He could not put weight on his, and he plays corner. Like, it's the most difficult position in football to play outside a quarterback. His cornerback, he has to guard all these receivers. So he may play. That's a big bonus. By the way, speaking of playing, Jamal Adams is a tremendous player for the New York Jets. He's a safety.

He's the best young safety in the NFL, Jamal Adams, for the New York Jets. he was talking about Baker Mayfield this week. They lost, of course, had a 14-3 lead. Baker Mayfield comes in, leads the Browns over the jets. He goes, we didn't see it happening. I'm just being honest. I didn't found out that Tarot had a concussion until after the game. We were not prepared for Baker Mayfield.

That's what he said on New York Radio WFAN. So last week, I did something I'd never done. I bet $1,000 on a regular season game, but I wouldn't tell you who it was. And then after the game was over, I unveiled in a suitcase who it was. Remember that? I put it in an envelope. I didn't tell you. I said, I'm going to wait for the game's over, and then I'm going to show you the suitcase. And I had bet Cleveland. I didn't know Baker was going to play, but I had bet Cleveland minus three against the Jets because Sam Darnold was playing his third game in 11 nights on the road against a really good defense. And the Jets have the worst O-Line in the league and no weapons. My takeaway was Donald's going to struggle. They're not going to get in the end zone. They're going to lose like 21, 24, 6. It'll be a blowout. It ended up being close, but I won the bet.

myself, I'm going to double down on it. And I'm just going to take the thousand dollars I won. But this week, I think we have the convergence of two things. We're getting ahead of ourselves on Baker. The story of Baker is better than the player Baker. First of all, Cleveland has not won a road game since week three of 2015. They've lost 22 straight road games. And Oakland, they're going to go to Oakland.

Oakland, by the way, is top 10 in passing, top six. total offense, top 10 and third down. And by the way, they've let every game going into the fourth quarter. Now they're at home. And Derek Carr's way better right now than Baker Mayfield. I think we're making a big mistake. So the line is Oakland minus two and a half. There are a two and a half point favorite against Cleveland.

It is my $1,000 bet of the week. I'm going to put it in here. I'm going to bet Oakland that they're going to win by a field goal or more. And to celebrate the occasion, hold on one second. to celebrate the occasion. I have created... I took the... Oh, how nice.

It's called my Baker-Baker Moneymaker. It's no longer the mystery. It's no longer the mystery suitcase. It's the Baker-Baker Moneymaker. Bet of the week. So I'm going to put this in here, Joy. You as my witness. But I'm going to put this bet inside here.

For safekeeping. for safekeeping. So I have $1,000 I'm betting against Baker, Baker, Moneymaker this week. Okay, so, and by the way, it's going to be part of my Blazing Five. This will be one of my five picks. I get this number minus two and a half. I've never done that before either.

I don't care if the number changes. That number, Raiders win by 10 or more. Very excited. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right. Lots of talk about the Patriots struggling this week. Everyone knows that Rob Grancowski is Tom Brady's best weapon right now. The Lions certainly knew it Sunday night. And despite this, Gronk still caught four passes for 51 yards on five targets in the Patriots loss. And all three were team highs, which is a problem Brady spoke on during his weekly radio appearance.

It's really been, you know, three weeks in a row where he's gotten the majority of the coverage focused on him. If I was a defensive coach, I'd be focused on my attention on him too. So it just comes down to us. getting them out of that by getting the ball in other parts of the field, different areas, and we just have failed to do that. First week, you know, he made some plays in double coverage. And last week, he's certainly a double coverage. And, you know, if Gronk's going to get coverage, you know, it gives other players opportunities. And at certain times, we've done a good job with that. And then last night, I just didn't think we did a good job at all.

Well, that's kind of the issue, right? Like, Gronk is going to get doubled because he is their best and number one target right now. which leaves the other receivers in one-on-one situations, except for those other receivers need to catch the ball and do their job. I don't know, though. I don't know that Edelman coming back is really going to make that much of an impact. I mean, it's not like he's coming back and he's going to be at 100%. They'll increase the efficiency.

He's a legitimate target. But my takeaway is, again, I'm not saying they're a bad team. They obviously have the coach, the quarterback, and the special teams, and the division, to win a division, get a buy. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, if you turn the sound down and watch football, the truth comes out. You don't have bias or narratives from announcers. You don't hear the home crowd.

They just don't look special to me. And Detroit did what you should do. Eight in the box, double gronk, beat us upfield, see what you can do. And they can't. Josh Gordon could change all that, by the way. If Josh Gordon gets his act together personally, he could change all that. I just don't trust that happening. Yeah, I'm not ready to be.

on the Patriots just yet either. I've been burned by that decision before, but they do have some issues that they need to work out. And Josh Gordon will be very interesting if he can get out there. So as the Raiders sit in the basement of the AFC West, John Gruden believes there's plenty of blame to go around, and he's not afraid to call his players out, including his most important one. Now, two weeks ago, he said that Derek Carr wasn't aggressive enough against the Rams, and now he is giving the opposite advice. I thought we were too aggressive.

I think at times he's trying too hard. We'll talk about that extensively here in the next couple of hours, but I thought he played really good under some very tough circumstances. I think sometimes he needs to learn a little bit more patience, and I think he will. Again, he's talking too much. I can't complain, though, he keeps giving us great quotes, so I can't bang on him for that. These coaches, Mike Tomlin and Gruden, are giving us great quotes every day. I can't bang on him for that.

This is what we want, right? You and I need quotes. I mean, yes, you and I need quotes. But I think if you're a Raiders fan, you're probably like, simmer it down, button it up, don't talk, yeah. Focus more and more than the games. Well, since he is giving opposite advice, I really don't know what exactly it is he wants from Derek Carr.

But they're in a bad spot. I like them this week. I like the Raiders heavy this week. I believe it's the best bet on the board this week. I'll tell you right now, we usually wait to Blazing Five. My Blazing Five has been red hot. We were four in one last week. We've won twice as many games as we lost.

It's the hottest I've ever started, although I started pretty good last year. I think the Raiders is the best bet on the board this week. I honestly do. They better get to win this week. So finally, the Steelers got their first win of the season on Monday night, and Rathusberger had another great game, and the defense showed up for the first app. So there was a lot to talk about this week other than Levy on Bell,

but Mike Tomlin was still asked about it, and he was not having it. There were reports this weekend the team was listening to Officer Leveon and be willing to listen to Officer Leveon Do you understand me, has there been any change in the mindset of the organization? I'm not talking Leveonon. I do not.

There's nothing new to add. I don't blame him for being frustrated at this point. I wouldn't talk either. On Levy and Bell, I wouldn't talk. I will say it again, if I'm the Colts, they need weapons. If I'm the Jets, they need weapons. They both have.

the cap space, this move makes so much sense for the Colts and the Jets. And by the way, both next year need the same thing, another tackle, another receiver, and another edge rusher. The Colts and the Jets are very similar situations. I think they both have the right coach, but they have got to get a stud weapon. And Leibian Bell had 85 catches. He's not just a great back. Of course. He's an un, he'd be their best receiver in New York and their best back. And their best Of course. And especially for Sam Darnold, that would be huge. But I don't blame Mike Tomlin for not answering any questions about Leveon. First of all, there's nothing new to update on it. He's still not there and still not showing up anytime soon. So unless he wants to reveal what his plan for trading him is, there's really nothing to say. And they have enough to focus on in-house. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. A couple of things I want to talk about. I saw this quote yesterday. that people are calling Jared Goff a system quarterback.

Okay, just say this. There's a difference between a game manager and a system quarterback. And I'll give you the greatest example. A game manager is code for limited. You don't want to be called a game manager. A system quarterback is necessary to win a Super Bowl. Let me explain. Joe Montana

played in something called the West Coast offense. That's the most copied system of offense in league history. Well, well, what about like Brett Farb? I mean, what about... I'm glad you mentioned Brett Farv. Brett Farv,

Brett Farv played for 20 years in the NFL. Seven years with Mike Holgren. In the seven years, Brett Farv, the great talent, the ad-libber, played with Mike Hongren. He won all three Mbps, and it was the only time he got to Super Bowls. In the 13 years that Brett Farve didn't have Mike Hongren system, no Mbps, no Super Bowl trips, and in eight playoff games, had a losing record.

So there you go. Yes, Tom Brady's in a system. And by the way, Troy Aikman threw for over 20 touchdowns once, because Jimmy Johnson had a great. system. And Terry Bradshaw, four Super Bowl rings. You don't think Chuck Knoll had a system. And I grew up watching a guy named Dan Fouts.

His coach was Don Coriel. They called it Air Correel. It was a system. Brett Fav, who we all think of the gunslinger, making it up as he goes. He's like Robin Williams, the late comedian. People think Robin Williams didn't prepare his craft because he was so funny. Robin Williams knew what he was doing before he went on stage.

He made you think he didn't practice. He made you think it was as a little. lived. Brett Farve played the way he played, you thought, Brett Farb, there's no system. Seven years with Mike Congren. Three MVP's, two Super Bowls, won twice

as many playoff games as he lost. Yeah. The years without him? Bumpkus. Nothing. So is Jared Goff part of his system? Yes. Game manager is code for limited. System

quarterback is necessary to win a Super Bowl. And for the record, for the record, you know who's having a sneaky good season this year? Cam Newton. Cam Newton's having a sneaky good season. Five to one TD to pick ratio. His completion percentage is very uncam Newton-like.

It's 67%. Well, why would that be? Why in the world would that be? Oh, he's got a new coach, Norv Turner. What is Norv Turner known for? Having a system. Yes, Jared Goffs on a system. It's the only way he's got a chance to win a Super Bowl.

Find me the great quarterback with trophies, Super Bowl trophies that didn't play in his system. In fact, it's one of my knocks on Aaron Rogers. I wish he was a little more system and a little less improvisational. I wish Aaron, I really do. I wish Aaron was a little less ad-libby and a little more system. I want to shift to the Lakers and Lanzo. It's very interesting.

So LeBron at his first press conference two days ago, his first practice yesterday. And this is kind of odd. But you know with Oregon's joy, your body will either accept or reject a new organ. Like if you have a kidney transplant, even if you have the same blood type, you put it in your body and your body will either your body will accept it, a new liver. It will reject it. And you don't know until you put it in your body. And that's just the way it works with new organs. you had, you know, heart failure, kidney failure, liver failure, does your body accept it or

reject it? And you can have the same blood type. Sometimes your body rejects it. So I think, and I was thinking about that with LeBron and the Lakers. Here's my question. Does LeBron reject or accept Lanzo? And I don't care about all the quotes, because they're going to like each other, because Lanzo's a smart player. But LeBronin has been talking about Rondo and Rondo and Rondo and Rondo. We may have a soundbite. A couple days ago he was talking about Rondo. I've never heard LeBron talk about another player like this. Rajan Rondo, here it is.

There's always been one of the most cerebral players, smartest players that I've ever competed against. And one of the most competitive guys I've ever competed against. He know everything that's going on on the floor. He know everything that you're doing. You know everything the team is doing. He know all the strength and the weaknesses. And sometimes you kind of,

to see yourself, when you see yourself in someone on the opposing side, that's where you think like someday it would be crazy if you ever teamed up. It's not many of us in this league that can actually think and prepare with our minds before we even step on the floor and then actually play the game like the two of us. That's LeBron talking about the Lakers backup, who's going to start the system starting because Alonzo's injury. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I'm I don't know how the most fascinating part of the Lakers isn't, are they going to be good or not? They're going to be fine. They've got LeBron.

They won 35 games last year and Lonzo and Ingram couldn't stay healthy. They're going to win 45 games, right? Minimum. They're going to be fine. The question is, accept or reject. Like, Lonzo ball has to have the ball to work. He's not a spot-up shooter. LeBron demands the ball.

I'm not sure if it works. And then I hear LeBron talk about Rondo like that? Well, LeBron is coming off of quite dramatic. ending to the finals with a mental lapse. I know, but it's, J.R. Smith. I've never heard. He's kind of on the, I think he's going on to the extreme other end. I've never heard LeBron talk about a teammate like that.

No, he's he's doting on Rondo for sure. He's way into it. LeBron likes the savvy veterans, though. And defenders. Right. So, but I do think he's also realizing that there has to be a good, healthy mix of youth and savvy veterans in order to be success.

Lonzo LeBron. I don't know. I don't know how it's going to work. Lonzo's got to have the ball. If he's sitting around waiting for jumpers, Lonzo's game's done. Got to have the ball. And LeBron demands the ball.

That's how he plays. Joel Clatt, around the corner, a couple of huge college football games this weekend. Joe Clat's joining us. Huge weekend of college football. Huge. Big Ten, if you don't want to get shut out, Ohio State's going to Penn State.

And if Ohio State's losing, is they're in big trouble, and they're not taking Bosa, their big stud, is Ohio State. Because I think Ohio State's one of the, the only Midwest team I've seen that can beat the Bamas, the Auburns, the Georgia's, and the Clemson. Yeah, I think Ohio State has established, at least for me, themselves, as the second best team of the country. That's what I see. I think they're one of the rare teams that has the roster, the coaching acumen, the quarterback explosiveness, the offense that could actually compete with Alabama and give them a game. Yeah. That being said, this is not the scenario you want.

to go into a really hostile environment in which they've struggled in the past, including losing their last time when they went out to play at Penn State. And that field, remember, the blocked field goal. And you do it without your best player, Bosa. And so now you don't have your best pass rusher slash player. And you've got to go and you've got to face Trace McSorley, who is like Baker Mayfield light. He's like the diet Baker Mayfield.

He is. His mentality is so good for Penn State. He just wills them down the field. He wills them to victories at time. He's undefeated. at home as a starting quarterback. So it is not going to be an easy task for Ohio State, but I do think that they're going to win the game. And the reason is is because Penn State's defense concerns me a little bit. Their offense has been great. Number one in the country and

the scoring. They're 21 at 22 in Red Zone touchdown efficiency, which leads the country. All of that is great. You've got to deal with Dwayne Haskins. I'm telling you, this, this Ohio State offense is one of the best Ohio State offenses I've seen a long, long time. This is the best quarterback. This is the best quarterback talent Urban Myers ever had, including Alex Smith. This kid's the best talent he's ever had. J.T. Barrett, I loved. Chris Leak at Florida.

These are good guys. They're college guys. This kid's an NFL quarterback. He's not ready to go now, but he'll play on Sundays. Pure quarterback acumen, he's the best Myers ever had, and that includes Tebow. And I think even Tebow would admit that. Tebow was a great competitor, and he was a great college football player. But this kid has immense talent.

This kid's good enough to face Sabin and beat him. He can make, he's an NFL thrower. I'm not saying he will. No, but he's, you can't be a sit-in-the-pocket guy. This kid could beat Urban Nick Saban if he got the right. Let me give you, let me give love to a team. Now, I know Brian Kelly yells and screams, and it looks like a tomato. He's bright red and everybody bangs on him.

But I got to tell you something. When I watch Notre Dame play, because I still think Michigan's good, I, here's my prediction of the week. Notre Dame's going to thump Stanford. And Stanford's pretty good. I think we got to give credit to Brian Kelly here. Okay, small private school, religious overtones, academically tough. They pass the eyeball test.

They got NFL dudes. You're not going to go that far giving excuses to a school that is one of the two, three, greatest traditions in the history of college football. But I will tell you, yes, there are some things that are more difficult at Notre Dame than there are at other institutions. Going to school, yeah. Yeah, I mean, listen, Stanford deals with that. Other people deal with that.

But his decision, and I think it takes guts to switch. the quarterback has made them dramatically better. Oh, God, yes. Going from Brandon Wimbush to Ian Book, you could see it. They had not scored over 24 points in their first three games against just so-so opponents. Now, save for Michigan, obviously,

defensively, but then they go to Wake Forest. I'm not saying Wake Forest is a juggernaut defensively, but they put up a 50 burger, right? Like, there's now a different dynamic to what Notre Dame can present the opposing defense with Ian book at quarterback. So,

give Brian Kelly a lot of credit for making that move, and it's made them a better team and made this game much more interesting. I think Notre Dame is really good, and when they thumped, and I say thumped, it was a touchdown Michigan. Everybody sold their stock on Michigan. You and I are the last remaining people in America that still think Harbaugh is a really good coach.

I'll tell you, I'm just, this is a great time to buy Michigan stock. This is a really, really good Michigan team. They play Northwestern. You're doing that game this weekend. Gus and I will do that game this weekend, 430 Eastern on Fox. this team defensively has a top three defense in the country and offensively is way better than any of Harbaugh's teams that he's had so far.

I get it. They did not play well against Notre Dame, and I completely understand that and give it to you. Now, it was a few big plays early. If you take the first quarter out of that, they actually were the better team during the course of that game. They did not complete the comeback. Shea Patterson is trying to get comfortable in a new situation, new game plan, new system, very, recently has just been ruled eligible by the NCAA. I think all of that affected Michigan in that first game. You don't get a preseason in college. But guess where they're at? Right back to where they were to start the season,

number 14 in the AP poll. And you watch out. They've got Wisconsin coming up. They've got Michigan State coming up. Then they've got a buy. Then they're going to have Penn State. They've got these games where all of a sudden you're going to look up the beginning of November.

And if they play to their potential, they're going to be a one-lost team that is six or seventh in the country. I'm just telling you. They've got that. Michigan is really, really good, and you should all start paying attention to what they're doing right now. By the way, I was talking about system quarterbacks and everybody's saying Jared Goss's a system quarterback and I'm like, no, no. Game manager means I'm limited as a play caller on what you can do. System quarterback, Joe Montana was in the West Coast offense. And Brett Farve, by the way, when he was out of Mike Holngren Systems, zero MVPs and zero Super Bowls and a losing record. When I hear system quarterback, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's everybody that's won a Super Bowl. Well, I was going to say, isn't that every single great quarterback is a system quarterback? Every single quarterback is a system quarterback.

I don't get the, I hear you. I'm defending, like, that's a good take. Like, Jared Gough to me, I look at him, I'm like, yes, Sean McVay's got a system. You cannot win a Super Bowl on talent. No. By the way, Dan Marino and Brett Farve are arguably the two greatest quarterback talents with LWI I've ever seen. Marino never won a Super Bowl, and Fav couldn't get there without home grin system. Well, and think I would even go to a different.

I mean, we've seen immense talents like Jeff George go out there and not play well. Why? Because he had a hard time playing within a system. I bristle at this fact because, yes, if you're limited and you need to be a game manager, that's one thing. We've seen guys like Alex Smith or so on and so. And I understand that conversation. But even the great quarterbacks and the great talents have had to succumb to the system at times. Times. Tom Brady is a system quarterback. Peyton Manning was the ultimate system quarterback.

He had his system. The quarterback that utilizes his system to its fullest is going to win. So yes, every quarterback should be trying as hard as they can to become the best system quarterback in that system that they possibly can or else they won't win. It's just a silly explanation. Those that use that, if you are ever in an argument with one of your buddies and he was like, yeah, he's just a system quarterback, we're like, good, good. And he's probably got a book.

That's right. Okay, give me your upset of the week because I think you're loony tunes on this. Well, it's not really an upset of the week. I'm just going, I was looking at all the ranked teams. And I'm thinking the ranked against ranked matchups this week. I like Stanford on the road. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why.

I'm going to take all this money I was going to bet against Baker Mayfield. I think I'm going to take it and bet it on it. I think Notre Dame. By the way, by the way, soft last week. You totally hedged. Oh, look at me. I'm going to rip on Mayfield. Now I'm going to bet a thousand dollars.

I didn't know he was going to play. I didn't know he was going to play. That was weak. I should have called on Friday. I didn't know he was going to play. I bet a thousand dollars on Cleveland. Then he got in and I won because of him. I didn't,

I wouldn't have bet it. I would not have bet Cleveland. I should have worn a Mayfield jersey on today. Like, like you totally buried the lead. That's all we've been talking about for months is Mayfield. He goes out there leads the Browns to their first victory in like 600 days. And you start with the Big Ten.

That was weak. What are you doing? Listen, guys like you were out there. Guys like me. Guys like me that are right? Guys like you come out and you're so high on Baker. I'll make you deal. Did you watch him play?

Dude, he was completing hook patterns, curls. I mean, this is the number one pick. Guess who wasn't completing those? Okay. The opposing quarterback, Sam Darnold. When you're the number one pick. Yeah, but I got a book, Joel. I'm not going to give you plot it and I'm not going to give you a big back rub because,

hey, nine-yard curl, you're the number one pick. He led a team to their first win in 600 days. That's what you do when you're number one quarterback. Oh, my gosh. See you go on the road. See you go on the road and win. This is Big Boy Football, Sunday football. We'll see.

Let's see. Yeah, we'll see. All right, we'll see you later. Eric Decker just retired. He's handsome, too, in a second, The Herd. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, Hour three, we are live in Los Angeles.

Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Joy Taylor is joining me. And it's been a fun show so far. James Jones, Aaron Rogers' buddy, former Packer was great today. Joe Buck, Joel Clat. In 15 minutes, I'm going to have on a former Bronco, a former Jet, a former Titan, briefly a Patriot. Eric Decker just retired.

And his wife's like a country music star, I believe. And actresses country music star, is she an actress or just a country music star? I believe she's both. Okay, she's both. And he just retired from the NFL, so I'm sure he's got great stories. We're going to ask him about his career and the Jets. And what's it like to play in Denver,

which is an amazing, amazing. He was with Peyton Manning. So all that coming up. Later and best for last, we're going to give you the greatest snubs in sports history. There's another one going on right now. But LeBron had his first Laker practice yesterday. And it got me thinking,

Sometimes some people are made to feel special. Golfers have always felt special. Golfers make money. It's expensive to be in a country club. You go to a golf club. There's Mercedes-Benz and BMWs and Range Rovers. A golfer walks into a club. He feels pretty special.

He's got money. He's got his own locker. It bothers some golfers that Tiger Woods doesn't need golf. Golf needs Tiger Woods. Tiger Woods is hovering above golf. golf. There's golf and golf is fine. And then there's Tiger Woods, who doesn't need the sport. But when he comes back

and is good, the galleries explode. They quadruple in size. The ratings go up 300%. Golfers have always felt pretty special about themselves, have they not? They're nice BMW, drive up to the country club. But the sport's kind of dying. It doesn't get ratings anymore. Even the Masters is down. Tiger is special.

Golf has always been told they're special. And it's the same with the Los Angeles Lakers. The Los Angeles Lakers beat Lail-A, Wilt and Jerry West, our player's a logo. Our best player, Jerry West, he's a logo. Orlando had Shaq, we get him, we got Kobe, we got a player named Magic. Lakers have always felt special. And then LeBron James arrived in town. And yesterday, a Laker reporter asked LeBron about how he expected to earn

the loyalty prove his loyalty to the Laker fans watch this exchange LeBron the L. The L.A. fan base How do you expect to earn their respect and earn their loyalty? Who, me? The fan base, yes. Me? Yes, you.

When do you say the fans that say they want to see you and earn their respect? I'll sign a four-year deal. I'm much more what you want me to do. That's fine. I mean, we talked to them outside of here yesterday. Listen, listen, I sign a four-year deal. deal. I'm here, so I mean, I know what I bring

to the table on the floor. L.A. wants a hug. Lakers want to feel special. How are you going to earn our loyalty? How do we know you love us? Are you going to be... I signed a four-year deal. That's all our relationship is.

You know how track stars, tennis players, golfers get appearance fees? Basically, the Lakers, are paying LeBron a four-year appearance fee. That's it. That answer summed it up.

You've always, is it cooler to win in L.A. than Memphis? Yeah, because it's cooler to live in L.A. than Memphis. L.A.'s got palm trees and a beach, and it's 71 degrees in the winter. Yeah, it's cooler. There are stars everywhere. Go to lunch, you see, you know, Meg Ryan. You go to lunch. You see Tom Hanks.

You see Denzel. It's cooler here. But it ain't because of the Lakers, folks. and LeBron, in that one answer, laid it out for you. The Lakers have always felt special. No, the Lakers needed LeBron more than LeBron needed the Lakers. Get used to it. He's not going to give you a big hug.

Teams are no longer special in the NBA. Superstars are. What are the Warriors? Take away Steph Curry and Kevin Durant. They're the Grizzlies. They don't matter. The NBA owners have always been comfortable with this, most of them except Dan Gilbert.

Nobody cares about the logo. Nobody cares about the arena. Nobody cares about anything except the stars. And that's the greatness of LeBron. He changed that in the NBA. It's not about the owner, the arena, the city. Yesterday, a reporter, innocently enough, is asking LeBron, it's actually kind of funny. How do you expect to earn the loyalty and respect for the L.A. fan base?

LeBron loyal? Really? How does he expect to earn the respect of he doesn't care if you respect him? He doesn't give a rip. This isn't 1970? I know, I know Jerry West was the logo. I know, I know the Sky Hook, Shaq, Kobe, Magic. I get it, I get it. I get it. But be honest here, Laker fans. Be honest with yourself. Philadelphia has better players. Embededed, Ben Simmons, Dario Sarich, and LeBron? That's five straight trips to the finals. The Rockets have better players. Chris Paul, James Harden, and LeBron would beat the Warriors. He did you a solid.

LeBron did L.A. a solid. He should have gone to the L.A. Times, bought an ad and said, you're welcome, like that soccer guy did for the L.A. Galaxy. You're welcome. You're welcome for having me. I mean, LeBron's always been into the long play and the big brand stuff. And that's what he's doing here. But if you're sitting around waiting for LeBron to give you a big hug

and show you the respect and go, I'm not worthy. You had James worthy. That's the worthy you get. It's cooler to win in L.A. Because L.A. is cooler than Oklahoma City. But five years, the last five years, do you know how's the lowest winning percentage in the NBA?

The Lakers. You win less than 31% of your games. And if LeBron isn't here this morning, you're going to be a 41-win team, 500. The Lakers, This sounds harsh, but you just won the naming rights for LeBron. He's the building. You're the banner.

That's it. That's what this relationship is. That's all this relationship is right now. And listen to this question again. And by the way, I'm not picking on the reporter. No idea who it is. But I'm hearing this over and over from Laker fans in L.A. media. There's 500 people at the Laker Media Day.

There was eight at the Clipper Media Day. It's not the city. Listen to the question again. LeBron, the LA fan base, how do you expect to earn their respect and earn their loyalty? Who, me? The fan base, yeah. Me? Yes, you.

Huh? So you say the fans that say they want to see you and earn their respect? I'll sign a four-year deal. How much more? What do you want me to do? That's fine. I mean, we talked to them outside of here yesterday. Listen, listen, I signed a four-year deal.

I'm here, so. I mean, I know what I bring to the table on the floor. but that is cold, that is harsh, and that is 100. He is, as the kids say, he's keeping it real. LeBron, whether it's politics, the reason all these players move right now is LeBron. It used to be if you moved, you're a bad guy. Now if you don't move to a better team, you're an idiot. That's all LeBron.

You follow his politics. You followed his business models. You follow his training regimen. Everything LeBron does, everybody falls. And boy, the Lakers, that was a whew-wee. That was a comeuppance. That was a harsh reality where LeBron looked at the reporter like, loyalty. You feel like I got to earn my respect.

You need to earn my respect. You've been a doormat. You've been a welcome mat for five years. I don't know you anything. Can't wait for it. Can't wait for the Lakers season to start. Only three teams can win a championship. They're not one of them.

But it's going to be entertaining. Laker fans have been led to believe they're special, and they were for a long time. I mean, Jerry West was the logo. So, I mean, you feel pretty special when you're not even your best player. Your player's the logo. But you're not getting a hug from LeBron. Coming up next, he just retired 15 years in the NFL, takes us inside the rope. NFL player now, perhaps, I don't know, be a broadcaster.

Why not? Always used another good broadcaster. Eric Decker's around the corner. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeard radio app. Search Hurd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like.

Saturday, it's a college football doubleheader on Fox, starting with the Big Ten, with Jim Harbaugh's number 14, Michigan Wolverines, taking on Northwestern. The number 11, Washington hosts 20th ranked BYU. It all starts off Saturday at 4 Eastern on Fox and the Fox Sports app. Great Saturday for college. football. Stanford, Notre Dame. I like Notre Dame big in that game. Ohio State, Penn State.

Sleep on a Casper. Every other mattress I've had, I prefer it. 100 nights. Ship it for free. Don't like it. Take it out for free. Won't matter. Terms and conditions apply. Casper.com. Code Hurd. H-E-R-D. Over a four-year span, only Brandon Marshall and Des Bryant had more touchdowns at wide receiver than my next guest. Eight NFL seasons, played with Peyton Manning, briefly practiced with Tom Brady, but I got to bring him on Eric Decker joining us on the show now. And we need clarity because

your wife is a country music singer and an actress, right? She is a TV personality. A TV personality. Are you guys going to put lights on Eric here? Can you... We have lights? There we go. That's nice. Let's talk about this.

So you played with Peyton in those four years, you raked it. I mean, you raked it with Peyton. and then you had some brief time with Tom Brady. Were there similarities personality-wise that you noticed? Yeah, for sure. I mean, two of the greatest quarterbacks of our era. And ultimately, what it comes down to is their detail-oriented guys.

I mean, both competitors, both great leaders. But the way they prepare, the way they practice, I mean, there's no one like it. And that's what separated them and why I think they're so great. What was Peyton? I heard Peyton can be difficult, demanding. Did he bark at you occasionally? Oh, they both did. Once you step on the field, I mean.

Peyton always said we laughed about it, the walkthrough before the walkthrough. So, you know, there was always the blitz adjustments. There was hot routes you had to know. You always had to let him know when you thought someone was coming. And so he would test every guy. You'd be out there and it's a walkthrough before the walkthrough. So you're just like kind of going through the motions and you miss something. And he lets you know that you missed it and you better, you know, stay focused.

So that kept us, I think, again, just great. When we got into games, we were mowing people down. You were humming. And were you part of the Tebow mania for a while? I sure was. That was in my lifetime covering the NFL. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. So just some backstory.

I had a really, I had a good source within the locker room. And they were like, and they told me, they're like, listen, Tebow's not good at practice. He's like fourth. And they're like, we're all here and we're watching it. We're like, okay. And then you went into the games and it was like divine intervention. You guys, Matt Prater's leg, it would be 10-9, and all of a sudden, so when you were in that locker room, listen, you got eyes, Eric.

He's not Big Ben, he's not Breeze, but you were winning games. Yes. What was it like to be in that locker room? I mean, we would look at each other after game and be like, how did we win that? Because we would sputter through the first three quarters. Oh, you'd be ugly. Yeah. And then fourth quarter, like you said, we get in position.

Somehow Tee will make a fantastic play. Prater would kick two, seven. 70 yarders. We go in overtime and we end up winning. But one game, I remember in Kansas City, we ran the ball 60 plus times. Maybe we threw the ball eight times. Eight times. Completed three passes and we won that game.

Every time the coach come back to the sidelines, me and to Mary's time, I say, hey, stay in it. You're going to get one next series. You're going to get one. We just got done crack blocking three times in a row. It was the crazy. thing. And then he won the Steeler. That was...

Yeah, play Afghan. Oh, it was just... And that was a great throw. Who was? That was that, Demarius? Yeah, it was Demaris. Yeah. He took a 75. And then I always, I always felt that John Elway's a smart dude. That John knew, because there was a huge Christian following for Tebow. It wasn't just football. Yeah. It was aspirational. It was its following.

That you had to bring in somebody that immediately the Tebow fandom would stop. And Peyton was the only guy you could do it with. Yeah. That once Peyton Manning comes in, it's like, okay, we love Tebow, but we have the man. And immediately, everybody just became a Peyton Manning fan. Oh, well, granted he had how many great years in Indianapolis. And the timeline of it, like you said, him getting released, us going to the playoffs and Tebow kind of having that great run. But the transition Elway made, I will say, there was games in playoffs and end of the season that there was churches coming and kind of lying up around the tunnel where we walk through and kind of singing homilies.

stuff as we walked through. It was, it was, I'm telling you, there's some things I've never seen in my life that year. And I could write a book on it, but, you know, Tim's a great guy. And, you know, I love that. We had success that year. But obviously, when Peyton came in, it changed the culture of that organization. You know, when you, you play all these years in the league, and then at some point, you're like, you know, you've made a stack of money and you, you want to have a great life with your kids and your wife. What was the drive home, the moment, the epiphany, that you said, I'm going to quit. Yeah, that's a great question.

I actually started to feel it after I left or was done in Tennessee around March, April time. You know, I was just like, I've played a lot of good years. I've had a lot of fun. You know, the injuries have kind of caught up to me at that point. I've had four pretty major surgeries at that point. And my wife's like, no, just one more year. You don't want the what-if, you know, where you're regretting your decision. So I decided to visit a few teams, talk to a few teams, very selective.

New England called. That was a place I wanted to go to. Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Super Bowl contending team, got up there. And, you know, I didn't go through the motions. I was competing. But, like, mentally and emotionally, I just wasn't all in. You know, I kind of lost a little bit of it. And it just didn't feel right.

So, you know, granted, my performance wasn't that great during training camp. But at that moment, I was just like, I've done enough. I'm ready to go home and I'm ready to kind of graduate from football and move on to the next thing. What was the call to your wife like, your dad, your wife, your mom, your family? I called my wife. I just told her, like, I'm missing that thing inside that, you know, that you have. It just clicks. I called my agent.

And, you know, I just kind of called Brandon Stokely, who was in a similar situation where, you know, I went from New York, got cut late, went to Tennessee. So it was a third team in three years. And it's a hard when you got young kids. you're moving around from team to team. And my family was staying in Nashville. And I asked Brandon, I'm like, you know, how'd you feel? And he kind of had the same situation where he's bouncing around, but he just, he loved the game. And he fought it out.

He got to a point where he was like, it's over. And that's kind of where I was at. It was over for me. You know, Josh Gordon got picked up by the Patriots. They're kind of scrapping right now, trying to kind of figure out until Julian Ellman gets back. Is their system more complicated? When you look at their book and you look at the Titans book and you look at the Jets book and you look at the Peyton Manning book.

Did you feel like it would be hard? Like, Ocho went there with Tom. It didn't work. Rannie Moss did, and it did immediately. Is it a harder playbook to learn? Yes, indeed. Granted, you know, a veteran guy who, for me, I've been through eight, maybe nine systems in my career.

That's not the hard part for me, picking up a playbook, understand it. I mean, a lot of stuff, they condense to try to make it easy on the quarterback and just in the huddle, making a shorter play call. They play fast, and, you know, There's a certain system about it. And, you know, when guys get there, if you're not used to, you know, playing fast and hearing the call

and knowing where to line up, because the formations are different, the concepts are different. You've got to kind of, you know, put your time in studying. It can be difficult, no question. That period of transition can be very difficult. So I can see why some guys struggle. Yeah. Eric Decker, eight NFL seasons.

There was a four-year period when only Des Bryant and Brandon, Marshall had more touchdowns. You had a four-year period with 41. You finished with 53 and almost 6,000 yards. We've got some different rules. The catch rule now has been tweaked. It is a catch. There's the helmet rule. You know, there's also the quarterback getting hit rule. The business part of me understands what the NFL is doing. But there is sort of a, you know, Trent Dilfer was on the other day, and he made an interesting point. He said, you know, when you're a quarterback, one of the ways that you can earn respect in a locker room is being a tough guy. And getting the you know what kicked out of you and getting up and be like,

I'm going to play with hurt ribs. He goes, because you're not tackling guys. You're not benching 500. He goes, as a quarterback, I kind of like getting soft cake, getting whacked a couple of times. And I could prove to my teammates, hey, I'm spilled all over the field. I'm going to get up and finish a game. And that instead of Trent's like, I don't like, show me the data that proves we're protecting these quarterbacks.

I like to get hit. and I think it now Andrew Luck got hit too much over a few years what do you make of the Clay Matthews where do you fall do you get the business do you want to be protected I mean by the way now you can't hit wide receivers over the middle which helps a guy like Eric Decker

where do you fall on that I mean I'm with you I understand the business side of it your quarterback is your franchise guy that's what the entertainment you know is he's going to get the ball out Aaron Rogers slinging it around like that's that's what makes the game's enjoyable but the same fact like you're teaching these defenders how to

properly tackle and practice. So he's got to hit a wide receiver or running back different than he hits a quarterback. I mean, that was a perfect wrap tackle. And to say, all right, then you got to last second, move your weight to the side or not fall on. I just, I don't agree with it. I mean, that's what football is. The physical game. You got Tom Brady and Peyton, who will get the ball out and get down if they don't want to get hit. They have that option. So I really think that, you know, the physicality of the game is what makes football so great. And you need to adjust some of these rules. And I get diving at knees, taking out lens, because that is our investment.

You know, when you got an ACL injury, you can't play the game. Or you got a foot injury, you can't play the game. But, you know, to get hit hard on the ribs, that's the game. That's the game of football. Did you, do you miss it? You know, I love washing it, but I don't miss waking up completely utterly sore the next day. I don't. You know, I really enjoyed my.

Tom. I had a great college career. I had a great NFL career. Like I said, I had so many memories, but I was at a point where I was, I was ready. I was comfortable to be done. But I still love talking the game. I still love watching the game. I bought NFL ticket because I want to, you know, the red zone so I could see every game. So you watch the red zone too? I do. I love it. Yeah. I sit there with a notepad every Sunday. Yeah, it's fun. I like it. By the way, Marcus Mariotta. I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable spot, but I interviewed him years ago. And I said this on the air, so I'll

say it to you, is that he's almost non-verbal, and it's a very verbal position. The one thing, the Breeze, Rogers, Farr, Brady, Peyton, Russell Wilson, they'll talk. They're talkers. And a lot of times they're confrontational.

Is Marcus Mariotta too soft-spoken for the position? You know, tremendous athlete, tremendous guy. I loved being as teammate. He is passive though. I mean, ultimately,

like you said, it's a position where you got to be verbal. You got to be the leader. Yeah. I mean, you got to demand things because when things get tough, who do you look to? You look to your quarterback. And if he's

giving confidence and kind of making expectations what they should be, everyone's going to follow suit. And you know, unfortunately, it could be just a personality trait where some guys may have it, may not. But I mean, that's a position where you cannot be passive and he is a little bit. He is. He is. And by the way, when you look at quarterbacks in the NFL, we've had big

ones, we've had guys that run. We've had Eli Manning, doesn't run, can't move. Shape, sizes, a lot of varieties, almost all of them. It's rare that you see a successful quarterback who is quiet, nonverbal, kind of passive, laid back. Sometimes you got to kick some ass. I mean, Peyton Manning is rough. Troy Aikman, have you ever watched those NFL films? Troy Aitman's rough on his teammates. Yeah, oh, no question. I will say, though, flashback in memory, when we were playing

Jacksonville and Marcus made a run and he got up and kind of flexed and everyone's like, whoa! I mean, that was the moment where I was like, it's there somewhere, got to dig it up. Got to find it. Eric, good meeting you and good seeing you. Thanks, call him. All right, Joy Taylor with the news.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, it's time now for our fantasy headline presented by Draft Kings. Baker Mayfield knows he is the Brown's 30th starting quarterback since 1999. That doesn't even, it doesn't even sound right. It doesn't even sound right. Isn't that crazy? Well, except for Cleveland, yes, it is crazy.

Well, it's not crazy when you know, but that's a lot. So anyway, he knows that he's being counted on to be the savior of Cleveland. And Swaggy B wants them to know that he's got you. It comes to the territory. No, that's what I signed up. for. I'm living my dream and I wouldn't have it any other way. You know, without pressure, I don't think this would be very much fun. Without all the people watching and finding the joy in this game.

You know, I love this game. Without the competitive nature, I wouldn't enjoy it. You know, when a guy's a star, when I'm four days out from his game and I cannot wait to watch Baker Mayfield, that's when you're a star in America. Like, I've been doing this so long. I very rarely wake up in the morning outside of Sunday during the fall and think, oh, I got to watch games. I'm thinking about Baker Mayfield. It's Wednesday. I got Thursday, Friday, Saturday till Sunday.

I cannot wait to watch him play the Raiders. I mean, just coming off such an amazing win. And yes, he has that X factor for sure. I never understood this, like, can he handle the pressure thing? So much pressure. What are you playing professional sports for if you can't handle pressure and competition? Yeah, he can handle that. He's fine with that part.

It's such a. It's a cliche thing to say. Like, oh, there's a lot of pressure on him. Yeah, he's the number one overall jack pick. You think he just figured that out? He's going to be all right. Oh, so Vegas has released their latest Super Bowl odds, and the Rams and Chiefs are on top.

It's a surprise to no one. My undefeated dolphins are not in the top 10, which is, you know, a little bit disrespect. Or they still have New England third. Wow. Yes. That's all coaching quarterback. That's all that is.

Pittsburgh. Yeah, I mean, this is all the teams. That's a reputation. It's reputation odds. I mean, this is who should be favored. All the teams up there are the ones that should be up there. You think the Steelers are a bit low?

No, I think that's where Pittsburgh should be, right? Right in the middle. If they weren't as dysfunctional, I would have Pittsburgh three, but they lead the NFL in penalties by nine penalties. There's just a... So many penalties in that game. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous.

Finally, we all remember the Cavs win over the Lakers in December, and then LeBron covered his mouth, and he was talking to his jersey, when he was talking to Lonzo. And when he was asked about at the time, he didn't provide any details, but he's giving the details of that conversation now. What a gist of it was, you know,

at the end of the day, no one can define who you are but yourself. You know, when you're young, you get caught up and listening to what people say, what people thinking that you should be, people saying what your game should be, but at the end of the day, you know, no one can define who you are besides yourself.

And if you put in the work, you commit to the game, then the game would give back to you, and that's all it's about. So, you know, Zoe got a lot of talent. You could tell he loves the game. You could tell his teammates love playing with him.

You know, so he's going to be great for this franchise. All right. I think it'll work. I think it's going to work. You know it's the weirdest thing about this Lakers team. Did anyone watch the NBA last year? Did everyone just forget who LeBron took to the finals? Yeah.

There are a lot of doubts. Did something happen that I miss? It's LeBron James. He's going to make the Lakers. significantly better. Well, he's averaged, every team he goes to becomes 11 games better on average. That includes high school to the Cavs. So let's give him 11 games.

They won 35. That would get you to 46. And do you believe if you're an NBA fan that Lonzo Kuzma will be better off their rookie years? They added other pieces also. I mean, I know they think that everyone thinks that this crew is like the, like, bad news bears or something. Like, these are legitimate veterans. And it's LeBron James. And I think you're right.

People are overstating the West a lot. I think it's a reputation thing and people are just fatigued with the warriors being so dominant that they're just not paying attention to the actual landscape of the West. Let's be honest here. Golden State last year in the regular season mailed in weeks. At one point, Steve Kerr let a player coach. They lost by 40.

They lost by 30 twice. They lost by 20 half a dozen times. So they won another championship. So, you know, everybody's like Golden State. The Lakers' biggest asset is when Golden State won, you're going to fight apathy. Golden State's not going to win 60 games. Golden State's going to win about 54. They're going to arrest guys.

So when Golden State won, that's the best reason for LeBron to go to the Lakers. Because now you've got a team that's got back-to-back titles. Kevin Durant is going to be a free agent. By the way, Kevin Durant and Steph have been hurt before. And also, Houston is a worse team defensively than last year. So don't get me wrong, the West is better than the East. But if the third best team in the East is now the Sixers, after the Celtics in Toronto, the Sixers, and the third best team is what in the West?

Oklahoma City, that's a pretty even matchup. And I get Dario Sarich, Ben Simmons, Fultz if he can play, and Ben Simmons and Joel Embed, and you get Westbrook and Paul George. So if that's the third in each conference, there's a lot that can happen over the course of the season, too. I know that there's going to be some, there's going to be a lot of eyeballs, obviously, on it, but not necessarily expectations. I don't think they're going to win the championship this year,

but you shouldn't be surprised if they make some noise. It is LeBron. Right. Joy, Ted, over the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. By the way, my staff came up with something interesting.

the five current Hall of Fame quarterbacks in the NFL right now are Breeze Brady Ben Rogers and Russell Wilson so those are the five current guys in my opinion Breeze Automatic Hall of Fame

Brady Ben Rogers and Russell Wilson is it a coincidence now that Breeze has an awful defense Brady has no weapons on the outside Wilson has the worst O line in the league Ben an atrocious defense

and dysfunction, and Rogers once again has a weak roster. These should be the five favorites easily in the NFL. And right now, in fact, let me look at this again, only New Orleans has a winning record. And they only have a winning record

because of a coin flip against Atlanta. If Atlanta got that ball first in OT, Atlanta would have won, because New Orleans can't stop anything. It's interesting. Is it a coincidence, or is it this, that when you get one of these Hall of Fame quarterback, consciously or subconsciously, teams save money elsewhere, think they can overcome other spots.

Right now, the five Hall of Fame quarterbacks in this league all have a massive deficiency somewhere on the roster. There's no worse O-line than Seattle. And by the way, these are not things that are sudden. Again, Wilson's got a bad O-line. Again, Rogers has a MAA roster. again the Steelers have a poor defense. Again, Drew Brees, in the last five years, three times, an anemic defense.

You know, it's not a coincidence to me. I think there's something to be said that when you have one of these all-time Hall to Fame quarterbacks and you've been seeing it, they're all veterans, and they've all got major deficiency. And it's not just because you're paying them a lot because Brady's taking pay cuts for years. And Aaron Rogers' big contract doesn't kick in yet. So you can't just say, well, it's because they pay them a lot. Matt Ryan's making a lot of money.

He's got a bunch of good players. So it is funny right now. The five Hall of Fame quarterbacks in the NFL are all dealing at some point on a roster with a major deficiency. And you wonder, do we take advantage of them? You know, it's like in life. If you're married to somebody and they're a clean freak and the house is always clean, you become more of a slob because you can be. We tend to take advantage of people when we can.

It's just the way human nature is. But it is remarkable. These five Hall to Fame guys, one now has a winning record in a sport based on quarterback play. And these guys are all-time greats. And they're still amazing. And they're all running for their lives. They're having to score 40 to win.

They don't have any weapons on the outside. Amazing. Coming up next, it may be the greatest snub in sports history. It's best for last. And it's right around the corner. Great to have you. And the NFL announced the winners of the AFC and NFC offensive players. of the week. Big Ben and Drew Brees won. But these players also have a special distinction

is that despite being two of the greatest quarterbacks, not only of all time, but certainly in the last decade, they've never won a regular season MVP. And it's quite amazing. We were looking around, it's amazing how many great, how hard it is to be an MVP. The odds are out in Vegas about who's going to win the MVP. We thought in our best for last today. We'd give you the 10 greatest players, and I think you'll be surprised by a couple who never won an MVP. Here's best for last.

After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet. Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best for last. Number 10. Such a great hitter, the National League batting title is now named after him. Tony Gwynn in a 10-year period from 80s. 27 and 97, won eight National League batting titles. Go look up who was hitting in the National League then.

In a strike shortened season, he was batting 394. He got the closest to Ted Williams. He is the greatest hitter in the history of baseball. He's the best hitter I've ever seen. Rod Carew was good. Wade Boggs was special. This is the best hitter in the history of the sport. Tony Gwyn never won an MVP.

Number nine. Dion Sanders was out. actually so good at Corner and an elite special teams guy. He won the 1994 defensive player of the year as a cornerback. He's a two-time Super Bowl champ. He played for high-profile teams, Cowboys, Niners. He is considered the greatest return man of all time and the greatest cornerback of all time. There's really nobody close at Corner.

I mean, really, who's second? Dorel Revis? That's a big gap. Dionne Sanders, number nine, never won an MVP. Number eight. You do realize the guy that kept Michael Jordan from getting to finals, Isaiah Thomas. When they were winning titles in 89 and 90, they were keeping Chicago out of the finals. Michael Jordan never beat the Detroit Pistons and Isaiah Thomas in their prime.

In fact, in two years that he won titles, the MVP was not Michael. He won a title, and Magic was the first. MVP. Isaiah Thomas number eight. Number seven. Ben Rothelsberger. Now, I want you to think about this for a second. He led the Steelers to two Super Bowls, 2005, 2008. Think about this. In 2014. Now, this is five years ago.

In 2014, he completed 67% of his throws. He threw for 5,000 yards. He had 32 TDs and he had nine picks. And Aaron Rogers won the MVP. Big Ben, number seven, never been named an MVP. Number six. about this, the PGA has a player of the year. Phil Mickelson's never won it. Now, I want you to think about this.

Tigers won it 11 times. His biggest rival has never, ever won it. Only PGA players vote on. This guy has multiple masters over 70 tournament wins. In the 18 to 20 years of his prime, not one time he was ever named by PGA Tour players as player of the year. Number six. Number five. Ray Lewis, greatest defensive player of his generation. He was a two-time defensive player of the year.

He was a 13-time pro bowler. There was a long stretch in the NFL four or five years when you could argue that Ray Lewis and Ladany and Tomlinson were the two most complete football players in the National Football League. And Ray Lewis never won an MVP. Number four. Derek Jeter. Look at John Goulet, shaking his head.

Derek Jeter has the sixth most hits in Major League Baseball history. And here's what's funny. In 1999, this was in his peak. He batted 3.49. He led baseball and hits. And he finished sixth in the voting. And he was a Yankee, and he was a great defensive player. Think of those numbers.

He bats 350. He leads baseball and hits. The Yankees are amazing, and he finishes sixth in the MVP voting. I think that is jealousy. By the way, in 2006, he bet at 3.43, and Justin Morneau, the twins beat him out. Number three. Jerry Rice, I kind of get this one, though, because Joe Montana. And Bill Walsh got a lot of the credit.

He's the greatest receiver of all time, holds many of the records, integral part of a dynasty, perhaps the greatest dynasty of all time. Now, he never won the NFL MVP. The pro football writers vote once gave him the MVP. But Jerry Rice is our third greatest player to never win an MVP. Number two. Hard to believe Drew Breeze. He's going to end up with 40 NFL passing records.

Super Bowls won his division. He broke Brett Farve's career completion record on Sunday. Last year, he set the highest completion percentage of all time, which is almost, it's like high school. 72% completion percentage. And it's interesting because he's so. beloved by the media. He's so beloved by players and coaches in the press, but he's the only player to throw for 5,000 yards or more in multiple years. He's done it five times, and he's the second greatest player to never win. We think he's number two on the shocking list of somebody

that's never won an MVP. But number one. Number one. The NBA logo, Jerry West, a 14-time All-Star, only player to win the finals MVP, despite being on a losing team. No, that can't be right. It doesn't make any sense, does it? Yeah. How could you do that? Yeah. How could you be the MVP of the finals if you're on a losing team?

He's the only one. It's happened to one Super Bowl also. Oh, he was on the losing team in the finals. Yes. He's the only one. He averaged more than 30 points in four different seasons. Can you believe? And here's the thing.

two. It was a big man's league. He was the guard for a decade. On the biggest franchise. And he was the logo. And he never won an MVP. Isn't that odd? Goulet's smiling.

You're still bitter about Jeter. So Matt Jeter's not number one. So our number one, Jerry West, Drew Brees, Jerry Rice, and Derek Jeter. Never MVP's. Phil Mickelson kind of feels like jealousy. Doesn't it? Yeah, that's a little crazy.

How in the hell is he never been PGA player of the year? That's pretty crazy. I thought golfers liked Phil Mickelson. I thought he was great in the room. I thought guys love Phil Mickelson. You know, there are like timings, everything in life. There are these moments in life where, I mean, John Stockton and Carl Malone just happened to be in their prime during Michael Jordan's greatness.

And people forget those Utah Chicago Bull finals were great finals. Those were six gamers. Michael struggled in both those finals in multiple games. Those Utah teams are as good as anybody that never won an NBA championship. But it just so happens if, you know, people forget this too. In the NHL, there's been a time where Chicago's in the West. If Chicago was in the West in the NBA, and they could be because it's been like that in other sports, then Michael would have got to the finals twice and lost Isaiah Thomas and the Pistons.

And he wouldn't be six for six. He'd be six for eight. And we wouldn't hold him in this kind of, you know, his mythology would be. dinged at least a little bit. Tomorrow, Michael Strayhan joins us on the show. David Shaw, Stanford's going to Notre Dame. I got to tell you, after that wild Oregon game to have to go to Notre Dame, that is asking a college football team to do emotionally.

I don't know if Stanford can do it. And Notre Dame is a real deal this year. Greg CoSell, as he often does, always does during the football season, is joining us on a Thursday. So Michael Strayhan, Greg Kosell, David Shaw, joining us tomorrow. For our radio listeners, Michael Strayhan, Greg Kossel tomorrow, we will see you then. TV listeners speak for yourself right around the corner. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes. themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeterside. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to wave at her. What?

Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to you, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.