The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Michael Jordan, Patriots, dynasties, where Colin was right & wrong

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

Colin discusses how Michael Jordan was portrayed in The Last Dance documentary, the possibility of the Patriots moving up in the draft to get Tua Tagovailoa, why sports dynasties are a good thing, and where he was right and wrong. Guests include Doug Gottlieb, Ahmad Rashad, Mack Brown, and Matt Miller. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

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Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played. with and just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys

this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com Or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching herd.

Listening to Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on, it's got to be our busiest show in a long, long time, our busiest coronavirus show. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Draft is Thursday. That's absolutely one of my favorite things in sports.

One hour from now, Colin Wright, Colin Wrong. We all watched the dock last night. Joy Taylor is joining me. I know where Joy was last night at Six Pacific and Nine Eastern. It's where I was. And I imagine 90% or more of my listeners and viewers today were last night. How are you, Joy? I'm great, man.

That was fantastic. It was like, it was amazing. It really was, just to relive parts of that and learn new things about the dynasty. and just have everyone do it together. It was great. It really was great. I have so many thoughts. I wrote notes for, you know, the entire couple of hours.

I'm prone to do that. And, you know, let me just start with this. A lot of people are going to naturally move into the, you know, Michael's way better than LeBron. Let me just say, folks, if anybody watching or listening to this show, if any of you are ever the second best person on the planet at something, thing, I'm not going to take a shot at you. LeBron does more good things with a basketball in his hand than I've ever seen. Michael's probably the most relentless player. But if you're number two in the world, congratulations.

I tip my cap. The fact that we only now debate MJ and LeBron, we don't debate MJ and Akeem, MJ and Kareem, MJ and Magic, MJ and Bird, MJ. We don't. We don't even debate it. We don't even go there. That tells you the greatness. not only of Michael, but of LeBron.

Let me repeat something I said last week, and it was amplified. I knew about it, and I watched it, and it was worse than I thought. But the fact that this Bulls team, the best American sports team of my life, won six titles with all the chaos with the front office. They were fighting their front office. I already had a reservoir of respect for Phil Jackson. he is balancing a GM that resents some players, some players that resent the owner Jerry Reinsdorf, which I told you last week is the cheap guy, the baseball-loving cheap guy.

He won't give Scotty Pippen a new deal. I just couldn't live with myself. MJ carried the league and halfway through it. He wasn't being paid. He was carrying the whole league, forget the Bulls. It's just remarkable how Phil Jackson and MJ's focus. and Phil's just moxian intelligence could balance what was a chaotic mess. Virtually every dynasty of my life has great ownership or great management.

You know, Pat Riley with Miami and the Hedols or the Rooney family or, you know, Kraft and Belichick. I mean, Tom Brady didn't have the deal with nonsense all day. Remarkable what they overcame. It also, and you may find this strange, it made me think more than once about Russell Westbrook. This is why Michael loves Russell Westbrook. Russell Westbrook plays hard every night. Every night. No possessions off.

And I know you think I hate Westbrook. No, he drives me crazy. But there's a lot of Michael Jordan with Westbrook. When you watch Michael Jordan, and Jordan has said Westbrook's his favorite current player, sometimes Westbrook will do things and you're like, are you nuts? Slow it down, shift down. But then I watched Michael Jordan last night. And Michael Jordan in his second year got hurt.

And the doctor said, you can play on it. But if you get hurt again, your career's over. And Michael held a grudge against his owner because his owner was like, I don't think you should do this. I don't think we should take a risk. Michael, I wanted to go, Michael, are you crazy? You're willing to risk your career? Just sit it out.

You're not a title team. I thought to myself, Michael's got a little crazy in him. And Westbrook's got some crazy in him. But in a world where players take the night off and load management, I got to be honest with you. I came out of that thing and I'm like, props to Westbrook. Old school.

I like it. I get it. He's not my favorite player, but I respect the hell out of Westbrook. Something else that jumped out to me. Can we acknowledge now? Now, people like me, 40s and 50s who grew up with the Bulls, have always known the Michael St.

story's not linear. He didn't win without Phil Jackson and he didn't win without Scotty Pippen. He was just unbelievable. But now a lot of the mythology, you can all acknowledge now the 20 and 30 year olds who didn't see it live. Michael didn't do anything without Pippin and Phil Jackson. And you can think two thoughts simultaneously. You can think with one side of your brain. Michael's the best ever. And then think, but he didn't win squat without Pippin and Phil Jackson. And it's okay. He's both. Remember that last night? They told you. you when Pippin, you know, didn't rehab and Michael had to start the year with him. Fifteen games, they were eight and seven.

And by the way, he ran through Doug Collins and Stan Allbrook. And in the series against Boston, he scored 49 and 63. Yeah, and they lost both of them. The reality, even Michael Jordan admitted, you say my name, you got to say Pippen. You can think two things simultaneously. Michael's the best ever, but even Michael needed the right coach and the right Robin to his Batman. So far, this is mostly, it mostly through two parts of it amplified. Everything I knew, it just gave you a little dirt.

This was the greatest team I ever saw. It was the most glamorous team I ever saw. And it was the most relentless team I ever saw. Just nobody outworked them. Michael had a status. He was refined. He was dignified. There was a class with him that I think there's a lot of really classy guys in sports,

but I think only Brady has that. Where Brady feels like he can just buy all the other quarterbacks, Michael, right now, even when he came into the league early, there was just a dignity and a roy. He was royalty. He was American sports royalty. But my over, I got one overriding thought here is that, and this is a message because people my age know what I'm about to say.

And I don't want to come off as a cranky old fart lecturing people. But most 20-year-olds and that, the media and most in 18, 19 year olds. There's a message in this whole damn thing. Michael Jordan's the best basketball player ever. And he had obstacles the whole way. Does his dad love his brother more than him? His brother physically beat him up playing basketball.

He got cut in high school. His GM often felt like he had. no respect for him. The owner would not give him a new deal, even though he was so severely underpaid for seven of his eight years. Go look at Michael Jordan's life. He then breaks his foot. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever.

He fought with the pistons. He fought with his GM. He fought with his owner. He fought with his body. He fought with his brother. He fought with his dad. It ain't easy. You want to be great.

Stop whining because somebody sent you a mean tweet. It's hard. Michael Jordan's whole career. Why is so hard? Why he's so tough? Because it was rough. It was rough for him. Think about being as good looking as him, as fashionable as him, as smart as him, as great as him.

He's still. He signed a batterer. contract. The owner was no is in his corner. The GM was the worst. Thank God Phil Jackson showed up. Or maybe he goes through seven coaches. Doug Collins he fought with. You haven't seen a lot of that yet. The high school stuff. His brother, his dad. I mean, thank God for MJ's mom. I mean, he didn't get a lot of love from the boys of the family. So this idea that we're all freaking out now because somebody said something on Twitter. I just can't. That's why guys like me laugh and all the people that get worked up on Twitter.

Life's hard. Deal with it. Nobody wants your sob story. It's hard. I mean, Michael Jordan walked into the NBA and he walks into a room. This is where he started laughing last night. It was good to see Michael Jordan laugh. Like he had a gutterer or laugh.

And he was told by the documentary makers, he's like, you're a good team. he inherited a team that wasn't as popular as the local soccer team with a bunch of coke heads and a GM that was a baseball scout. That's his road. And he got the living, you know what, kicked out of him by the pistons, by the refs, by the Celtics. That's why he's great. He's not great despite that. He's great because of that.

Just Michael Jordan is tough. And you know what? You saw that letter he sent his mom. He's a great kid. But Michael Jordan was about winning because he had to deal with nonsense, his entire life. And so in the end, you were either about winning or you had no value to him. And I found Michael incredibly likable last night. He was worried about not being like.

never liked Michael Jordan more than I liked him last night. I thought he was fantastic. He didn't have any time for nonsense because you know what? Some of his childhood was nonsense. I mean, good God. We think people complain if they don't get this perfect linear path. That's not the way life works. That's not the way life works. I'm not analogous to Michael. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. God, I've gotten chairs thrown at me. You know, look at Joy, me. You don't get a job at the big network. It's hard.

There's a lot of sucky days out there. Deal with it. Joy and I, we have climbed up both sides of the mountain. Up and up. Okay, so we got, I will say there was something in this series. Now, we tend to romanticize. Yeah, I've tried, as I watched it last night, I didn't want to be one of these. Man, the good old days are way better than now, because I love the NBA now.

I think there were a lot of guys playing in the NBA back then that couldn't shoot a free throw. Like the guys now are so skilled and so talented and such great athletes. And I've said this before. Is there a bad guy in the NBA? I mean, there's a lot of good guys. Every NBA guy I know or text or, you know, ever talk to, they're just good guys. They had no jerks. There used to be some jerks.

This was a league in the 70s, the traveling cocaine circus. That is not an issue now. Okay, that is not an issue. But there is one thing. We got to lighten up a little bit on the good old day nonsense. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam, this Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything. everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get your free credit score cards. Today, even if you're not a Discover customer, includes your FICA credit score. Go to Discover.com slash credit scorecard limitations apply. We're seeing slowly but surely some businesses opening up. Very encouraging. Yes, there is good news out there on the horizon. I really like the documentary.

There's a couple of reasons. Because for me and people that grew up with it, it's just great to go back down memory lane. It's really fun. A lot of the stories I know, a couple of them I didn't, but it's fun. I also think it's really cool. John Goula is telling me this morning, younger people are like, yeah, I didn't know half of this stuff.

I just knew they were great. So it's really cool. Like we're all collectively, I'm reminiscing younger people are seeing stuff for the first time. I think it's a really communal experience that we're all enjoying. And I will say this. There is, we tend to,

you know, we tend to create sort of, we romanticize the past a little bit. too much. The guys in the old days, they all hated each other, and guys today are now all friends. Oh, really? So Danny Hange and Michael Jordan are golfing on a day off. The star of the Bulls and a star of the Celtics are golfing during the playoff series. Yeah, they didn't hate each other. Magic and Bird, really close friends. By the way, Magic and Isaiah for years, really close friends. First of all, a lot of guys back then, they played cards, they golfed, they had fun, they chased it, they drank, they smoke cigars together, off-season, and probably in-season.

The difference is this. Today's players are all paid well. The salary cap used to be closer to $25 million. Now it's well over $100,000. It'll be $200 million in five, six, seven years. The bottom line now when you sit down at the dinner table, anybody listening to my show that grew up in a big family? And maybe you grew up in a big family and your folks didn't have a ton of money. And, you know, they'd hand out dinner and you were sitting there saying, I got to get a roll.

Because if I don't fight for the roll, I'm not getting a roll. And there's seven kids and I want to make sure I get that pork chop. And oh, that pie, I got to fight for my legitimate piece of the pie. That used to be the old NBA. I mean, Michael Jordan was underpaid for seven years. Scotty was underpaid. The stars were underpaid on the dynasty. You were wins equaled revenue.

Everybody was fighting for a very small financial pie. Now, Otto Porter's rich. Everybody's rich. We're paying $20 million a year for guys. And so everybody gets a second dessert. Everybody gets a third roll. Everybody gets a fourth piece of meatloaf. So it's not as desperate.

In life, if everybody gets a little more comfortable financially, there's not quite as much debt. That doesn't mean they're not competitive, but there's not quite as much desperation. And so the players today, if you put Michael and Scotty, and Scotty was making $27 million a year, not $2.2 million a year, you know what? He wouldn't have been so angry at the GM.

He may not have liked him, but there wouldn't be this. And guys are different than women sometimes on this. We're all about the respect and are we being shown love and our egos. You know, I get it. But it's just a different world. A lot of guys back then got along. And by the way, you think Patrick Beverly's buddies now with rivals? You think Rondo is?

You think, I mean, seriously, you think Kauai wants to be buddies? Yonis is like, I don't want to be buddies with anybody. Blake Griffin doesn't get along with players. There's all sorts of guys in the NBA that do not want to buddy, buddy. Westbrook says his best friends, the ball. Their teammates he won't talk to. So this idea that current players are all softies and old guys are all tough, you know, it was a different world.

A lot of friends back then. A lot of guys that don't want to talk to other guys. now. Joy with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, one thing I think we can all agree on is a little different.

I don't think there's any more Charles Oakley's in the league anymore. He is one of a kind. I love Oak. So Joe Burrough is coming off one of the best college football seasons ever, but will likely face some challenges as an NFL rookie. Peyton Manning said, Burrow reached out to him for advice on transitioning into the league, and he told Burrow to embrace the early struggles because they can lead to more success later.

Look, what I told him, I said, Joe, when you're the first pick in the NFL draft, you are going to a team that has really earned the first pick in the NFL draft. I lost more games, my rookie year, that I had my entire high school and college career combined. I threw 26 interceptions. I played every game. Jim Moore never took me out. I learned some things in the fourth quarter of those blowouts about what it took to be an NFL quarterback.

And the next year, we went from 3 and 13 to 13 and 3. Wow. That wouldn't have happened had I not hung in there and kind of learned the ropes as a rookie, even though he took some bumps and bruises. That's a great. I absolutely. Love that. Yeah, I love that.

I love not only that he reached out to Peyton Manning for advice, you know, you want to talk to the greatest to ever do, one of the greatest to ever do it, about how to do it. That's a good sign to me. But also, we forget the struggles that some of these greats had early in their career. I mean, we're just talking about it with the last dance, how MJ came into the league, what MJ was given coming into the league. We only remember the sparkles and the shine. You don't remember that, you know, he broke his foot early and he inherited a team that the indoor soccer team in Chicago was drawing more fans than the Bulls. That's insane. think about.

I mean, I forgot Payton Manning struggled in his rookie year. We don't think about that. We think about his amazing commercials and his incredible career and his statue and, you know, championship. And he's in Hall of Famer. You forget about all that. You know, I remember, um, it's fuzzy, but I can remember like five years in with Eli Manning.

People just didn't know if he could play. Because he threw a ton of interceptions and the Giants were a building. But I remember maybe it was year four. But like Peyton, everybody knew Peyton was great by year two. But, you know, I remember a lot. a lot of doubt with Eli Manning. He threw a lot of picks for a lot of years and he wasn't winning a lot of games.

And I think that, again, that kind of molded Eli Manning into in New York. Nobody handled criticism in New York better than Jeter and Eli. Because Eli got a lot of it for like four and five years from the toughest media in the country, New York. Well, I mean, you got to think also

that was what Peyton's rookie year was made 20-something years ago. ago. Yeah. We were a little more patient then. There were fewer media outlets and there was no Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat and TikTok for everyone to share their comments and opinions about it. So there there is that element of it, which is why we kind of do need to remind ourselves sometimes. Maybe guys do need, you know, one or two or three years to develop into what they will eventually become. So Odell was rumored to be on the trading block last week, but Cleveland is reportedly trying to shut down those rumors, saying they haven't had any discussions

this offseason about trading O'Dell and that he is firmly in the team's plans for the 2020 season. Brown's GM, Andrew Barry, also said there's nothing imminent regarding a trade involving a veteran player. It was an interesting report about Beckham's future in Cleveland from Bleacher reports, Mike Freeman,

who was told by sources that it's only a matter of time before the Browns trade the star receiver. Thank you. That Beckham is viewed as a poor fit with Baker Mayfield, whom the Browns are committed to as their franchise quarterback. Okay, so that was. Mike Freeman? Yes.

Because that's what I've been told, that it's not ideal. OBJ has been a, you know, both OBJ and Baker are doing a great job to the camera, but people inside the organization do not think it's an ideal fit. That's what I've been told. That's why I got so excited for the OBJ Minnesota because I thought, oh, this is good for everybody. It's good for the Browns. It's good for Baker.

It's good for Minnesota. But what Mike Freeman's hearing is what a source I absolutely trust is telling me, it's not ideal. And he's not going to stay. It's not going to end his career in Cleveland. Yeah, I, I am also in that camp as well. It's just not a good fit. It never was a good fit. No.

And that has nothing to do with Odell and has nothing to do with Baker. And it really doesn't even have anything to do with the Browns. Sometimes things just don't work. And I think we all suspended that reality for a little bit to try and see what would happen. But look, for me at least, and maybe this is just my own selfish self-talking. I want to see Odell thrive. I want to see Odell be in a situation where he, can be a star. He deserves that.

Yeah. And the Browns deserve to be in a situation where they can move forward. It's not that Odell's holding them back or whatever, but it's just best for everyone, like you said. And they can say whatever they want about not trading him and that's fine and all that's fine. Giants said the same thing. So whatever. I, I, there's no point in them coming out and saying they are trying to trade him. If they're not, I get that. But when, if when they eventually do, we're all just going to pull this back up like, why did you say it? Finally, the Jags have reportedly had trade discussions with other teams regarding starting running back Leonard Fernett.

The 2017 fourth overall pick is entering the last year of his rookie deal and the Jaggs stopped to make a decision on his fifth year option soon if he stays on the roster. However, Ian Robert Portsweeted this morning that Jacksonville hasn't had any takers yet. He has a salary of 4.1 million in 2020. The Jags already traded Nick Foles, AJ Bouillet, Kaleas Campbell and Jan Ramsey since the start of the 2019 season. This is called a tank.

Right. Well, when it comes to first. That's something else is also kind of interesting is that he was kind of openly campaigning for Cam Newton last week. Doug Marone said, you know, with players you're going to have friends who are like, hey, this guy should come or this guy should come and you try and talk to the players about the team and doing what's best and keeping a single message. Then a lot of times you're going to have to be able to communicate in the locker room and that is a big thing with me. So maybe Leonard is not buying into the tank. I got to be honest, though, four million for Leonard Frenet.

That seems reasonable. If I needed a running back, I'd take a flyer on Leonard Frenet. But they are going to have to pay him because he's going into the last year. So whatever team trades for him is going to have to trade with the intention of paying him. Right, because you're not going to trade something for him

if you're not going to resign him. So that's an issue there. But it's pretty obvious what the Jags are doing at this point. Yeah, joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping you. The herd line news. Colin right wrong, top of next hour.

Ahmad Rashad, one of MJ's closest friends will be joining us next hour as well. That's pretty cool. Doug Gottlieb, Mercedes-Benz, the best or nothing sponsoring him this morning. You know, I was saying one of my overriding takeaways yesterday, Doug, was success is hard. People see the end result. But, I mean, Michael with his brother, with his dad, she's fighting his GM, had to go through two coaches, get waylaid by the pistons in Celtics. You know, it's, you understand, you know, I watch,

we all kind of knew this, but, you know, even for Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player, Doug, there was a lot of crap to go through, you know? Yeah, I think, I think there's a lot to bite into. I've been told by people that you and I both have relationships with that have seen all 10 episodes and that episode two specifically is the weakest of the episode. So if those are the weakest, I think there's obviously a lot,

more meat. Meat on the bones. Those are pretty good. There's a bunch of, like, first the idea, Jordan was a McDonald's All-American. So it wasn't that people didn't respect him in high school, but he did, he was a late bloomer. Yeah.

And he, even his freshman year at North Carolina, he was good and he hit the big shot, but he wasn't close to being the best player at Carolina. And I think you look around the NBA, and you start to realize, and this kind of comes on the back of what talked about last week with the G league trying to expand and having this one team of high school kids. One, I still believe the college system works.

I think we're just in denial of it. Yeah. That going to play for a fatherly head coach, living on your own sum, learning to budget your time, your money. And also, here's the other thing. Learning to become the best player on a team of guys about your age is a better way to go about developing as opposed to going to the NBA where you're just a rook and sometimes you get a little bit overwhelmed.

But, you know, look, he's a semi-late bloomer. Scotty Pippen was a manager when he showed up at Central Arkansas, a quipan manager, right? Dennis Rodman, Southeast Oklahoma State, I think they were the savages back then, right? And then you fast forward to now. Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Kauai Leonard, Paul George,

all these guys, late bloomers, we spend so much energy, worrying about these guys that are the best 16, 17, 18-year-old, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be the best 22, 25-year-old. Sometimes you've got to go, my expression, you've got to go through the pain before you sip the champagne. Right. These are the things you get better because sometimes your body develops,

but also because you're told no or that you're not that good, and the best of the best decide, you know what, I'm going to just get better, and they do. Yeah. And that's how they become, that's how Jordan became Jordan. Do you think, listen, Scottie Pippen had two people in his house in wheelchairs, had to beg for a chance at an NAA school. His life, there's a lot of Scotty Pippins in America who have had to fight their arse off. But I thought, you know, it's really a poignant story.

And it makes me want to root for Scotty. That said, last night on Twitter, it was, oh, my God, this is the saddest. Pippins getting robbed. And I thought, eh, they told him not to say. sign his lousy contract, didn't they? Well, it wasn't a lousy con. Again, we're looking it through the lens of today. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, signed a 25-year, $25 million contract in 80 or 81, right?

Jordan signed a eight-year, $20 million contract. And that was when he was Michael. I was his second contract. I was when he's Michael Jordan. Scotty Pippen, who is still making less than a million, signed a seven-year, $18 million deal, which put him in the top five or ten places. in the league at the time, and he took security as opposed to the short-term, you know, windfall and putting himself potentially, it was different.

The salary cap that final year was $26 million. Now, Jordan made $32 million, I think, or $34 million that last year. But Jordan was only making like $4 million up until the last two years when he signed it that almost like the $65 million over two-year deal, right? which is, and by the way, for the Bulls didn't take care of them, when Pippin retired, they gave him like an eight or ten year deal to get paid for nothing to ultimately take care of Scottie Pippen. So we're looking at the dollar figures of today and saying, oh, well, he was getting a job.

Like, no, this is a decision that players have to make all the time. It's not the, the league has totally changed because of these guys that you can decide between making 30 or 40 million for one or two years or 30 or 40 or million for four or five years. That's really the decision. And that started to take place right after the last dance year. That was the first lockout year that became max contract guys. So there's a lot more to it than being portrayed. I do think Jerry Krause is being made out to be the bad guy.

And he obviously lacked any sort of bedside manner. on the other hand like Jared Krause did a hell of a job Jordan did not want the Charles Oakley trade he didn't want medical Bill Cartwright the Bill Cartwright was a better fit you know Jordan Jordan didn't go through two coaches he went through four

he had Kevin Lockery he had Stan Allback then he had Doug Collins and then ultimately it was it was Phil Jackson but but my biggest takeaway was it's not unlike the Patriots and Brady and other dynasties and maybe the Spurs is the only one that we haven't seen this from.

Everybody wants credit, right? Jerry Krause's ego, he wanted credit. Scottie Pippen wants credit. Phil Jackson wants credit. And let's not forget that. Phil Jackson is a great coach. He won two CBA titles. Then he won the six titles.

Then he won five with the Lakers. Kobe couldn't win without him. LeBron couldn't win without him. But Phil Jackson also ran Jerry West out of L.A. So Phil Jackson is not the easiest dude to deal with. And I think a lot of it is the ego and the credit that you want. You know, people are going to, I was saying it's, it's people, Twitter thinks you can't have

two thoughts simultaneously. Like I can have empathy for virus suffers. And I also can think simultaneously, we've got to kickstart this economy or we're going to have 40 million people unemployed. Twitter doesn't allow that, right? And it's like, I can think two thoughts. Michael's the most relentless, greatest offensive player I've ever seen. and probably the greatest player.

But LeBron James does more things well than any basketball player I've ever seen. And I'm comfortable with that. That kind of feels like my takeaway. Where do you land on the Michael, you know, LeBron stuff? Well, I think what you're seeing from Jordan. And remember, he was also the all defensive team and defensive player of the year. that there was he was

what Kobe fashioned himself as the mama mentality like that was Michael Jordan yeah you know that was Michael Jordan Kobe copied my he's a copy of

of Michael Jordan and others have tried to copy Kobe which becomes a copy of a copy which is like Russell Westbrook right so the mentality of doing anything it takes to win and to win every night and to win at both ends

and look I'm sure Jordan took nights off defensive. Let's not kid ourselves. Yeah. But that mentality is just different than LeBron's mentality. LeBron wants everybody to be successful, frankly because of him, from his best friends that he grew up with, you know, to all the companies that he works with, to the franchises and the teammates. He wants all his teammates to get paid, and he wants him to be represented by Rich Paul,

who's his agent, who's his friend, right? That's how LeBron rolls. Michael wants to win and he will do it and if you can't do it he will do it himself and he doesn't care and at some point I hope it's discussed

like that mentality is great but what the triangle offense did and the teammates that they found around him did was he had to trust those guys because that mentality of trying to do it himself didn't work against the pistons because they knew he wasn't going to pass he wasn't going to trust anybody else

and when he finally won an NBA title he averaged 11 assist the game against the Lakers because the Lakers tried to make him pass and he did pass. He passed to John Pax. He passed the Pippin to Hors Grant. Those guys made shots. So I just think they're different. And I think that I made Michael Jordan is the greatest of all time because of that

mentality of the of the sheer will to win that lifted everybody up. Whereas LeBron's has been successful, but I don't think he's wired the same. And I think that's why when when I when I talk to the late Kobe Bryant about it, That's why he was obviously more of a Mike guy. It's not that LeBron doesn't do more things well. Yeah. It's that almost killer mentality that he had at both ends of the floor, and it worked. You know, he won one national title.

He won the Olympic gold medal. He won, you know, six titles and never lost the finals. And he was an unbelievable competitor. His show will be great today. You really want to turn in that Doug Gottliebreddy. show on Fox Sports Radio After Ours, the Dugger. Great talking to you, buddy. We'll talk later.

It's fun to talk about sports again, even though the sports occurred like over 20 years ago. But, oh, my God, sports on TV is fun. Like, this happened. Here's what's crazy about it. We all know the ending, right? This is like Rocky. Hey, I don't want to school this one out, right? But we all know the ending and it's still good.

Yeah, no, I mean, Titanic, the boat sank. I still thought the movie was great and I watched it five times. Like, I could, if you're a Leo guy. That's, I mean, really. You tell a great story. I can know, you know, Apollo with Tom Hanks. It's a top 10 movie to me. I know they got back.

I still watch it and get nervous. A couple quick side things. I know you got to go. Minute left. What was Jordan? Man, Jordan, his eyes were red in one of those ones. I bet the storytelling was better with a little brown. That was one thing.

I mean, Jared Krauss got the, Jerry, you want to hop in layup lines, was an all-time line. Oh, yeah. All-time line. And how about the French audio guy going for the autograph, right? Oh, my. Take your shot, big boy. And then Jordan just looked at it.

But here's the other part. Did Jordan ever look unkempt? Oh, God, no. Ever. Oh, God, no. Ever. He is so. I bet he ironed his undershirts.

I mean, there's never been a pro athlete close. He walks, he is like, you ever go to a store and there's like a, a mom. and they put the clothes on it and it looks great. And then you get home and you're like, I don't look as good in that shirt as that mannequin did. Mike's like perfect. He's tall. Everything drapes off Michael.

Yes. He should have been a runway model. Everything drapes off him perfectly. We got to go. Doug Gottlieb, coming up next all you Patriot haters. Oh, you're not going to like this at all. You are not going to like this at all. Third.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays and noon Eastern 9 a.m. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs.

I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series. because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the bar like, after you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out real quick.

Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Great to have you back in. Ahmad Rashad next hour, top of next hour, Colin Wright, Colin Wrong. So this is very interesting.

So Peter King's a very well-connected guy. And his mock draft, two things jump out. He has a mock draft today. Number one, he's got Miami, number three pick, drafting Justin Herbert from Oregon. I like Justin Herbert. I've said before. I don't think Justin Herbert and Joe Burrow are,

are that different. You know, Burl played with a lot better offensive, well, weapons, just say that. And a better defense and better players. But I think the weaknesses of Herbert you can correct and the strengths, his arm in size, you can't teach. So I like Herbert more than everybody else. He's not perfect, but I think, again, you can correct his mistakes.

And what do you know? He's got Tua going to the Patriots. The Patriots make a true. trade with San Francisco and move up. Remember, the Shanahan family and Belichick get along. Bill has great respect for Mike Shanahan and Kyle. Another story today from Adam Schaefter, the Niners, so Peter King and Schaefter both have this.

San Francisco is open to dealing both first round picks. Remember when Bill did the Niners, Joy, a little solid? I think maybe they'd do them a little solid back. That's how the league works. That's how the league works. That's how business works. That's why you go golfing. If somebody asks you to go golfing, even if you hate golfing, you go golfing.

I mean, that deals get closed on a golf course. So Peter's connected. The Jarrett Stidim era could be over. But this is the other thing. This league is not about drafting a quarterback number one and dominating the league. This league is about lots of great quarterbacks falling in the draft to better. coaches. Lamar Jackson fell to the really

well-run, smartly coached Ravens. A lot of bad quarterback teams passed on him. Browns passed on Carson Wentz. Dan Marino dropped in the draft to Hall of Famer Don Shula. Aaron Rogers dropped in the draft to a really good roster

and a patient team that allowed him to grow the Green Bay Packers. Russell Wilson drops to Pete Carroll and Belly. Chek gets Brady in the sixth. This league, there are very few, take a number one and dominate the league. It doesn't work that way.

This league is taking advantage of bad GMs and lousy owners and marginal scouting staffs. So you look at right now in the NFL. Look at the quarterbacks dominating. Russell Wilson went to the third. Patrick Mahomes, 10 teams passed on him. Lamar Jackson, end of the first round. Deshaun Watson. Chicago took Ryan Tannahill.

Aaron Rogers dropped. The rich get richer, not only in football, but often in life, they make better decisions. And this league is littered. You look at the teams that are bad in this league. You ever notice Jacksonville and Cleveland, the Jets are always drafting high, it feels like? You know, Miami's always got a good pick. Why is that? Now, I think they turn it around with Brian Flores, but very interesting to the Patriots.

With today's health concerns, more important than ever, take care of your body, MDrive Elite, immune support, testosterone support, go to MDrivefermen.com. Colin right, Colin wrong. One of the things that I've been fighting for years, this used to be, when I first took a job in radio, I said this and people hated it. Then I went to ESPN and said it for 10 years and people hated it. Now I think people don't push back because they all know it's right and they're just tired of me. nobody does documentaries on the 70s Seattle Sonics, nobody does national documentaries on the 2011 Mavs or last year's Raptors or the Rip Hamilton Pistons.

We do documentaries on dynasties. They're just more interesting. I don't care how you accumulate talent. In the college game, Alabama's got a better coach and has better facilities, and they get all the stars in high school, good for them. Why don't we hold it against Alabama? Why don't we hold it against the Yankees that in a sport with no salary cap, they can just go out and buy Garrett Cole and nobody else can get him.

They could go by Roger Clemens. Nobody else could afford him. C.C. Sabathia didn't want to go to the Yankees. They paid him 20 million more a year than anybody else would. Why don't we hold it against the Yankees or Alabama football? We don't hold it against any, we don't hold it against Kentucky basketball or Duke. But for some reason in the NBA, if star players want to play with other star players, as Rowan Egg the game. It's nonsense. Underdogs are boring, and hardworking small market teams stink.

I like stars cobbled together. They're not doing documentaries on the 70s Sonics. You know, we did have an NBA dynasty that was built organically. The Spurs, and none of you watched. They were terrible ratings. That was post-Michael Jordan. They were terrible, but they were organically grown.

Well, KD. into the Warriors. The only reason they could afford KD is because they drafted Steph and they drafted Clay and they drafted Draymond in the second round. And they won without KD. I'm going to punish him because KD's smart and goes, I want to play with those guys. I don't want to score 40 and lose at home. I want to score 28, have a more efficient game, not be exhausted when I go

home and get a title. They're not doing documentaries on my Sonics or your Mavs or Raptors. Dynasties, the NBA needs them. Why complain when we get them? Hour two next. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app.

Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so rapidly. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about All healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, Rhett. My mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's he at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode.

The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on the only store at the chip. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Bo. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back.

The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast.

Here we go, live in Los Angeles. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. Ahmad Rashad, good friends, former broadcaster, NFL Great, is going to be joining us in 15 minutes to talk about. his friendship with MJ and the documentary and all those things. I'm not sure if I've ever, in all these years, had a moderate shot on the show.

He was a great Oregon duck. He was a legend there in the Pac-12 and went on to a very distinguished broadcasting and playing career and friends with MJ. So he was on that NBC broadcast for years, and Joy Taylor is joining me. Joe, how are you this morning? I'm great. It was a great night last night. It was. Did you stick to your declaration on Twitter?

Did you not have a cocktail? Nope, no, had to be focused. was totally committed. Good for you. Didn't even have one after. Good for you. That's right. Sunday free of cocktails.

Monday's a different story. You have to reflect now. That's right. Contemplative state. I need a good bourbon to get me through it. All right, right, Colin right, Colin wrong. I make a lot of mistakes

throughout the course of a week and let me call myself out a few times. Here we go. Where Colin was right? Listen, people love super teams. This has been my mantra for 20 years. When I first got my job at the other place, I remember one of my first days I said,

you know, all these guys that say they love underdogs, why don't you watch them? The even snarky Twitter last night fell in love with Michael Jordan. There's a reason we like the Avengers. There's a reason people go to Coachella. We like when you get stars all together and they're fascinating and you get the glamour

and the great and the egos. It's fun. Hard work is great. I don't want to watch it. I want to watch stardom and glamour. and the 30 for 30 had all that. Where Colin was wrong. I love Tua.

I think he's great. But now Peter King, Albert Breer, and Peter Schrager are all saying he could fall in the draft. Listen, we know the injury thing. I still contend he's a rare talent. And I would roll the dice on the injury if I'm like a Miami and I've got 13 picks. I could draft two quarterbacks or I'm a Chargers where I've got a roster that could withstand a pick that doesn't pan out. But, you know, listen, the Wonderlich score was lower. than you love.

It's not, I mean, you know, Phil Sims had a bad one. It's not the end of the world. Everything is something. But the stories this morning, he's dropping a little. Where Colin was right. Carolina signed Christian McCaffrey to a monster deal last week.

And did you hear what Matt Rule said? His quotes were very telling. We want football guy first. Focused guy. True leader guy. It didn't have to say that. It's like when Tom Brady left New England. He said Tampa showed him warmth.

Hmm, who was he taking a shot at, Belichick? The reality is, Cam is what I thought he was. Talented, but a lot of drama and distracted. And Matt Ruhl made a point of saying it last week in his way. Where Colin was wrong. OBJ is not going to Minnesota. Now, my sources told me the same thing. But I did get very excited for about two hours because I've been told OBJ is putting

on a good face, but Cleveland's not where he wants to be. ideally. But I got to take a wrong here because I went crazy for about 15 minutes to start my show. And I do think Minnesota is a good fit for OBJ for the Vikings. And actually benefits Baker and the Browns that can get more focused on all the elements they already have. How many mouths do you want Baker Mayfield to have to feed? But I'll take a wrong on that. Where Colin was right. Jim Kelly Hall of Fame quarterback said last week in a quote, he said, I watch all these young quarterbacks in the AFC. And it reminds me of the days when it was me and all the legends like Marino and me and all going up against Elway.

And thank you, Jim Kelly. Again, we romanticize the past. There has never been a time in my life where fewer teams had bad quarterbacks and more team had franchise quarterbacks. And they're different. Lamar can run and throw. Patrick's got a great arm. So does Aaron.

Kyler Murray. Russell Wilson's a little smaller than you'd like. All shapes and sizes. Big Ben's old, big and gets hurt, but he's great. and Brady's old and not mobile, but he's accurate. We're getting so many different variations. This is the Golden Age of quarterbacks. This now.

I've been watching it since 1972. This is the best. The quarterback position has ever been in my life right now. And Jim Kelly acknowledged it. Where Colin was wrong. We're all going to take a collective wrong on this. That we always think that LeBron James is looking at Michael and he's got it, Michael in his head. Well, that's funny.

The producers of this now acknowledging that Michael Jordan was willing to do this documentary after LeBron James came back to beat the Warriors and was holding a trophy in Cleveland, and people started talking about, you know, LeBron may be better than Michael Jordan. And suddenly, what do you know? Michael was like, you know those old tapes I said you could never run? You can run them now. Don't kid yourself. Michael's like the rest of us.

He doesn't want his legacy dipping. It's not good for his shoe brand. It's not good for him, right? We're all wrong on that one. Where Colin was right. Kirk Cousins this week said, quote, I wouldn't mind playing with no fans if we have to. I'd welcome it.

Yeah, that's because no fans equals less pressure and no critics. Inadvertently, Kirk Cousins acknowledged what we've been saying is they doesn't like the pressure. I mean, how in the world does he go 0 and 9 on Monday Night Football? He wins 65% of his games. And Monday night football is not flex scheduling. It's not like Sunday night football. If you were O'None and Sunday night football, you could say, yeah, you always get in the big marquee games against the best teams.

On Monday night football, he's been the favorite and lost multiple times. He didn't mean to acknowledge it, but the greats don't want to play in an empty stadium. LeBron's like, I won't play if there's no fans. Kirk Cousins is, I'd welcome it. Kind of acknowledging what we've said. He doesn't like the heat. where Colin was wrong. I just don't get this.

The NBA's new model going forward is, let's take anonymous high school players to most, put them in an anonymous minor league system, and then put them on a bad team. The only reason I know who Zion is is Duke. But Jalen Green chose the D-League over college, and it looks like this is what the NBA wants, to go to Rio Grande,

some rural community with a crappy coach for a couple of years. You're going to tell me, Mike Shashefsky doesn't have value. Now, I think the G-Lees got better players than college basketball, but for six months for the business part of it, Planet Duke, Kansas doesn't have some promotional value. Isn't that how Zion got a shoe contract? You'll make it up.

I don't get it. Where Colin was right. LeBron currently with his uninterrupted Spring Hill Entertainment business now has efficiently 23 things you can watch on 14 different platforms. We predicted LeBron would go to the Lakers over Philadelphia that had a much better roster. And over Houston that had a better roster. Why? As we call it, the mogul stage.

There's the show off stage, accumulate title stage, and then the mogul stage. You cannot do what LeBron is done in Philadelphia. 23 shows on 14 platforms. He came here for basketball, two. And business. Where Colin was wrong. I don't like teams signing long contracts in sports. I think it just doesn't make any sense.

First of all, a guy can get hurt. Second of all, you know, a lot of guys, you give them a 10-year deal, eight-year deal, they lose their passion. Number three, how do you know what a player is going to be eight years from now? Some deteriorate. Some guys are late bloomers, some early bloomers. But I will say this after watching the Last Dance documentary. Michael had an eight-year deal.

Pippen had a seven-year deal. They were very team beneficial. I mean, for about seven years, that organization made so much money and was paying the best duo in league history, you know, nickels on the dollar. I don't like long contracts. I think they're awful. If I ever owned a team, I wouldn't want one. But man, those are the two best long contracts in sports history. Where Colin was right?

The Jaguars want to trade Leonard Fernette. Folks, this is why I say Joe Burroughs good. He's not Trevor Lawrence. Nobody was tanking for Joe Burrow. The Jaguars are not even hiding it now. They made a decision last year with a Jalen Ramsey trade. Once Nick Foles got hurt early, they're like, we can't win with Nick Foles. We're not going to win with Gardner Minshue.

We got to go get Trevor Lawrence. They're not even hiding it now. They're just getting rid of anybody that's any good. Why? You don't do this in the NFL. You do this if you're the Colts and you can see Andrew Luck and you do this if you're the Jags that can see Trevor Lawrence. That speaks volumes about the transformational talent in next year's quarterback class. These are good prospects.

He's an all-time prospect. Colin right, calling wrong. Ahmad Rashad, friends with MJ, notable broadcaster. great football player. Amad Rashad, joining us next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase. that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose

on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, the Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker,

this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American Soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to earn a score for chip. I'm Tad Ramos.

I'm Tom Boat. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policicic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions.

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By the way, we're on their t-shirt right now. Or a different one last night. Ahmad Rashad was not only a notable broadcaster. He was a hell of a football player. Played for a decade in the NFL. It was a Pro Bowl level wide. receiver for four of those years. And he was drafted.

He played at Oregon before they were Oregon. They didn't, wide receivers out of Oregon did not go number four in the first round until Ahmad Rashad. All you guys know the snazzy uniform Oregon, the Phil Knight Oregon. He was great before that at Oregon. And he is now the NBA ambassador for the commissioner. He did that show for years. A lot of us watched NBA inside stuff.

And when I watched them on NBC, he was Jordan's guy. and he took some heat for that, but in the end, he gave me information. I didn't get anywhere else, and I loved it. And Amad is joining us. First of all, thank you. You're a busy guy, and I appreciate you coming on my show. Oh, Joan. How are you doing, man?

Very nice to be your thanks for having it have me on. I'm not that busy right now. So what is your earliest memory of Michael Jordan, seeing him or meeting him? it goes back the first time I saw Michael Jordan and started to follow him John McEnroe was a huge fan huge huge fan I was living in New York and John is the one that turned me on to him it's like hey you got to see this guy from North Carolina he's absolutely great unbelievable you got to see him so from that point on that was like in 1983

283 somewhere around there from then we started watching him all the time and John and I would watch him both be watching you know, from either at home or together, watching Michael do his thing. And that's how I first sort of knew, you know, all about him and how great of a player that he was. And then, you know, obviously the 84 Olympics

were another time that I saw him again. And I'd never met him until NBC got basketball. It got basketball, I believe, in 1989 or 1990. one or the other. In the summertime, Magic Johnson used to have this game called A Mid-Summer Night's Dream. And it was back in the day when all the players, all the stars from around the league would come out to L.A. and they would play in an all-star game. And it was an all-star game which was pretty competitive. You know, guys were, it was about reputations and about who was this and who was that. And so for NBC

to sort of kick off their basketball thing, we showed that on television. We went out there to do that. It was our new team, and it was the first time I had sort of been at a game like this as a reporter, and Michael and I met then, and we just sort of hit it off. We exchanged numbers, and from that day forward, shoot, we talked probably, you know, every week, just about every kinds of things. We just became really, really good friends, and as it so happened, I ended up doing basketball on NBC in the game of the week. And, you know, every game of the week seemed to be the Chicago Bull. And my job was the interview to start a game,

and the start of the game was always Michael. You know, Ahmad, it is, again, I'm old enough to, you know, I've been doing this long enough that I watched the whole Michael thing. I lived through it. But I didn't get, I only saw a half a dozen times, having covered him live or in a game, the stardom. Women's swooned, the fashion industry, Wall Street, Middle America. Can you take me back to a moment where, and you've been around athletes your whole life,

that you were with Michael in a semi-private situation, and it really hit you. I'm with Muhammad Ali. I'm with Peli. I'm with the biggest star in the world, period. May not even be sports. I don't know if you ever felt, I don't think I ever felt that. I knew, you sort of knew what it was, but from the inside of it, it doesn't feel like that. Yeah.

You know, he's just, he's just Michael, you know, who happens to play basketball. And I was just DeMod, who happened to play football. And I had to do it. So it wasn't like, wow, this is, but there were certain things that were certainly really pretty fast. I mean, the fact of to watch, he couldn't go anywhere. Like, we never go to a store or you never go to a mall. You couldn't go.

And those things are people who just follow you forever. I think the one thing I remember is one time when we're in. terrace is that we had a car and we're going to get some cigars in a cigar store and we must have had I don't know 10, 12 police cars in the front and in the back and everywhere we went, the guy would drive up on the sidewalk so that when we got out of the van, it was like two steps to the door of the building where we're going in. And then by the time we come out, there was hundreds of people surrounding everywhere. That was the biggest one. But there were scenes like that, you know, throughout the NBA here. I remember in Miami, you know, coming out of a hotel and just having people as far as you

could see him. So it was not only was he like the greatest player, but their team was the greatest team. There was a lot going on with that team. You know, and I used to, I used to sort of say, you know, it was like the Beatles. But then I'd have people go, who's the Beatles? So it's like, you know, that's the end of that. I can't even explain it. But then these guys are like The Beatles. Like, well, who was the Beatles? When, you know, it's funny. I know Kobe.

When I watch Kobe, he was doing a movie. He was clearly inspired by Michael. Yes. Who inspired Michael? Was it like a David Thompson, I remember, or a, did he ever talk to that kind of stuff about you? Yeah. David Thompson was one.

And the other one, geez, I can't remember saying played for Denver. played for before David Jones, before David Thompson. There was two guys that he, when you, if I can think of their names, and you watched the way Michael played, he realized that is where his whole thing came from. I don't know. If I think of it, I'll call you back. Yeah.

No, I, I, but one of them was David Thompson. Yeah. One was David Thompson, and the other guy was, oh, shoot. Well, it wasn't Alex English because he didn't jump much. So I doubt it was Alex English. who's supposed to be a great guy but was not a very vertical player. No, not at all. Amad Rashad is joining us.

Listen, a lot of people speculate that Michael was willing to do this because, you know, LeBron's getting all this love. And, you know, Michael's got a massive shoe brand. And he doesn't want that brand dinged at all. And it's still the biggest selling shoe in basketball by far. Do you buy the reports that Michael kind of watched LeBron win, beat the Warriors, and thought, you know what, I'm going to give people a little, let's get, let's give him a little bit of my life again. I wouldn't, I wouldn't fault him for it, but do you buy those reports?

Colin, not at all. Not even the, perhaps the furthest thing from his mind. His whole attitude about this whole thing is, you know what, I did what I did. And there it is, you can decide whatever you want where that stands. I don't think he has any sort of, there's no competitive feeling in him about, you know, who was better and there's no competition between him and LeBron, none whatsoever.

You mean, you can't draw him into any sort of conversation like that. The way he comes back and said, you know what? You can't compare errors. Because if there's no way that you can't, you can't compare errors and you can't. And he said, plus, we're never going to play one-on-one. So what is just a sports conversation about, you know, one person saying, this guy was the greatest,

the other person saying that guy was the greatest, but that's what sports is all about. Remember back in the day when you go and all you have your buddies and you'd have your favorite player, and he'd have his favorite player, and you have these wonderful arguments about who's the best and who's not the best. But Michael, once he finished playing, that whole basketball thing is gone. I don't think that even, that conversation would never even happen. It was like, whoa, somebody's gaining on when he's getting too much thing,

let me put this thing out. I think that there was enough time, even when he decided to let the NBA follow him during that last year, there was no plan of ever letting his tape out it's just something he was going to be able to have and you could do whatever you want with it and enough time went by I guess that he just kind of went

you know let's do it and see what it is and that's awesome you're going to just see it but it wasn't in any sort of competitive way and let me show you who I was this whole thing is like hey you saw who I was and that's what stuff was and this is what I am now

so no there's no competition on that I don't think there's any looking back and, you know, trying to prove who's better than who and any of that kind of stuff. I think that's just for a bar conversation that people can say things like that. But I can say for a fact that that's not the reason why you let that take out. Amad Rashad joining us, friends of Michael, the former Pro Bowl wide receiver, a very notable 10-year career, also now NBA ambassador for the commissioner, Adam Silver. You know, I was struck when you watch Michael. you know, I think sometimes we forget how hard the road was.

The fights with his brother, his relationship with his dad, cut in high school, the injury broke his foot, getting knocked to the ground, having to deal with multiple coaches. You know, like, I understand the reservoir of, not animosity, but the chip on the shoulder. When you first met him, had he eclipsed that or was he still?

going through that sort of, I'm going to prove the world they don't want to mess with me. Who was the Jordan you met? That one. And I think he's been that one for quite some time. And I think that's something that cannot be coached. And he's not the only person that I think if you talk to Magic Johnson or Larry Bird or Kareem or Dennis Rodman for that matter and talk about there was always a place where they could go to be somebody. You know, whatever that was going on in your life

and whatever was going the other way, it was a basketball court to go to to prove who you were. Now, some guys, you know, had that competitive spirit that they were going to go, I'm going to show you, I'm the best, you know, there is. Other guys, it's like, I'm the best today, you know, but great ones are I'm the best all the time. You know, there's something that you just can't teach.

It's Michael had that put your foot on their throat. Kobe had that put your foot on their throat. So there were a lot of guys that were just different. They were just great, but they also had that killer instinct. You know, that they were competitive about everything. And Michael has been competitive about everything. He hates to lose to me in golf, probably as much as he hates losing it anything. So it's, but it's just the way it's people's makeup, you know,

and I guess you can have it at all single level. There's probably a lot of guys that hate to lose, but they do anyway. And then there's certain guys that hate to lose, and they very sales do lose. You know, I found... There's a commitment there. Yeah, I found Michael incredibly likable last night. I loved when he was laughing, when his mom was reading the letter, and it was really a joyful laugh. I laughed when he was told that the bulls when he joined the team were called the traveling cocaine circus, and he just belly laugh.

You get to see Michael. I get the intense Michael. I get the regal Michael. But he just, he really was easy to laugh. I found that such a likable quality. and that's probably the Michael you see. Wasn't that great, Colin, to be able to see that? Yes.

Now, what this film does, it lets you see Michael. That's him. That's him. And before that, you never saw that. He never let you see that. Yep. You know, he let you see he was two, three feet away from you. You never got to get inside that.

I mean, just anybody out there. But for this, and I think that he's also feeling like, this is the first time that people, every fans, everywhere, are like a fly in the wall to see him as he really is. And that's, you know, that's a little uncomfortable. Right. But it is what it is. And I think that's the beauty in this documentary is you get to see the sacrifices.

You get to see the guy reacting like a normal person. Before you never saw that. Yeah. He didn't never let you see that. Yeah. Now it's like, hey, man, I'm happy in my life. I've done whatever I've tried to do. I'm moving forward with everything else I'm doing.

So it's kind of fun to look back at this and see that. You know what? I was like everybody else. But I was just committed, committed to try to be in the best I could possibly be. And as far as I'm concerned, he's the most committed person I've ever seen. We would, here's an example. We would, after every game's during the finals, there was a bunch of us that was sort of hang out. It was like Howard White, Flynn Buckner, myself, and Michael, we'd get a room with those smoke cigars and talk about the game.

from the minute it started to it ended. And we'd be up there talking and just talking and this happening and now happening, what about this and all that, till like three, four o'clock in the morning. Wow. At six o'clock in the morning, Michael was in the gym. Never missing. Never missing. That's amazing.

Real pleasure for me, Ahmad. Yeah, I just found Michael so likable, and it was so nice to see him laugh. And I just can't wait to watch the remaining eight episodes. Amad, thanks for coming on our show today. I appreciate it, man. You are very, very welcome. And, you know, I'm from Tacoma. You're from Seattle.

Yes. Oh, what did you go to high school in Tacoma? Stadium? Mount Tahoma. You went to Mount Tahoma. Yeah, and didn't you go to, did you go to Rainer? No, I went to a very small school on the coast of Washington in a small town that's largely overlooked even on maps.

So you went to Mount Tahoma's a real football school. They had some real good teams when I was a kid growing up. What you tell me where was in the city? Westport, Washington by Aberdeen. I know where Westport is. I ran track meets in Westport before. And I bet you won them. I bet you did.

All right. Thanks, man. You're very welcome. Thank you. Ahmad Rashad. How about that? Isn't that crazy? He ran track meets. Yeah, I guess track meets we used to invite all the schools.

Yeah. He was the fast guy. It had to be somebody, not many of my hometown. Good stuff. Here's Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Did you run track, Colin? No, they tried to talk me into it. My coaches did, but I played football and basketball, and I just wanted to hang out. I think I had a girlfriend or something and didn't want to do it. Plus, you know what? Tracks miserable. just running. It's just it's no fun. Distance. Basketball, I get a shoot. Track is really fun if you do sprints.

Yeah, but they used to make the football players run track for, you know, offseason training. It's just hard. Track practice is just here. You want to run all then? Be exhausted. What do I get at the end of it? A fourth place. That's not any fun. Not if you're fast. Well, I wasn't. The 49ers have two first round picks in this week's draft. Two first round picks. But with no picks in rounds two through fours, San Francisco is reportedly open to trading down both the 13th and 31st picks are on the table. And the 49ers have been fielding calls for both selections. Their best bet at number 13 is that a quarterback like Herbert or Tua falls out of the top 10. And then a team that wants to move up would give up, you know, several picks to get that.

But they might also be tempted to stay at 13 if one of their top evaluated receivers are available like Jerry Judy or Henry Ruggs or CD, lamb and that's certainly possible. So, you know, there are some scenarios where they could move around, but they're on the table, so they likely will. They traded the second, their second round pick to the Chiefs for D. Ford and their third and fourth round picks to the Broncos for

Emmanuel Sanders. Yeah, so they can, they can keep one and move one and get a couple seconds or a third. Absolutely. That's what good teams do. Yeah. Very flexible, which is crazy that they have two first round picks after going to the Super Bowl this year. Well, Tua has quickly become the biggest wild card in this NFL draft with many still having concerns about his

injury history and if he drops the Patriots could reportedly be aggressive and trade up for him. They currently have the 23rd pick. They've done their due diligence on Tua. So if he starts to fall, New England could try and move up to get him. Peter King's mock draft has the Patriots trading with the 49ers, the 13 and drafting Tua. I am pretty positive that if this were to happen, that the collective sports world outside of the Boston area would literally their heads would explode. I can't even, I would check up on Nick Wright immediately. I'm sure he would not be happy about this.

Well, listen, we have a history of this, Joy. A lot of good quarterbacks have dropped, a lot. And Marino dropped and Aaron Rogers dropped. So it's not going to be the first time. There's definitely a precedent for it, despite the fact that Tua was, regard the way he was before his injury. But to go to the Patriots of all the teams is what's going to make people freak out if that ends up happening.

Either way, I cannot wait for the drop this weekend. So like the rest of the sports world, Dwayne Wade was watching the last dance last night, Chicago Native. And as it was airing, he tweeted, man, MJ had it. He had that it. He was chosen to be the goat. He also said in an AMA with Leisure Report this weekend that he was nine years old when Jordan and the Bulls won their first title on 91, and it solidified.

his desire to play in the NBA and win a championship himself. Watching the, you know, first two episodes of the documentary, I mean, MJ was my favorite growing up for lots of reasons. But the documentary really reminded me of what actual greatness is. Because I think sometimes we throw that out like, oh, he's the goat, and he's the goat, and she's the goat. And it just kind of becomes something you say and you don't really think about what it actually entails to be the greatest. of all time at something. Yeah.

The Beyonce documentary on Netflix kind of had that effect on me when I watched that, just watching her go from having two twin children to then doing one of the greatest live performances of all time at Coachella. Yeah. And you showed all the work and dedication

that she put in to make that happen. And this is what it is for me. If you can watch that and not, at least be inspired to want to go do something, but then want to be great, really wanting to be great, is the feeling that I had watching it. It's just like, it takes so much to be great.

Relentless is a great word. I mean, you just, if you want to be great, you're going to be doubted, and it's just, you better be relentless because it's not easy. Yeah, no. It's actually better for you. If everything is handed to you or people are always telling you that you're perfect, it's very hard to continue to manufacture motivation. Right.

Yeah. Good point. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News. Mack Brown, former North Carolina coach and now current North Carolina coach. Friends of Michael Jordan will join us last hour.

Matt Miller's around the corner. He does a terrific job, Bleacher Report, NFL draft writer. Some thoughts on, too. What's the Wonderlich score mean? What have guys in the league think about it? I always think it's something. It's not everything. It's something.

It's not nothing, but nothing is everything. So we'll talk about that coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox, Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying,

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Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you. you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

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American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about balligan.

I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals.

The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Get your free credit score card today, even if you're not a Discovered customer, include your FICA credit score. More hurt your credit. Check it out. Learn more. Discover.com slash credit scorecard limitations apply. He's the NFL draft scout, Bleacher Report. Podcast is stick to football. His name is Matt Miller.

Been covering this sport for over a decade. And this is an interesting draft. You have a 99 score for Chase Young. How infrequently, in the decade you've been doing this, have you had a 99 score for a player? Who have the others been? Yeah, Colin, it doesn't happen very often. You know, first one I ever did was Andrew Luck, who? You know, perfect as a prospect. Outside of not having the strongest arms. Andrew Luck, 99, easy enough, right?

Move on. After that, I was actually a huge believer in Bond Miller and Patrick Peterson. And so both those players, I looked at them and said, this is the premier player for that position. I don't know if I'm ever going to see anyone better for what they do as a corner and an outside linebacker. They both got 99. Then Sequel Barclay comes along, and I know you should never take a

a running back number one or number two overall. But with Seekwon, everything you could look for, the size, the speed, the athleticism, the character, the lack of an injury history. So Seekwon also got a perfect score. And then this year, really went wire to wire Chase Young. And I think two years ago, when I started looking at the 2020 class, he said even then that this guy would have been the number one player. So he's a very, very special athlete, his special football player who not only comes to

with a really high floor, he's been ready to go, but I think he can continue. to get better in the NFL, which is pretty dang scary. Tua's wonderlick score came out, whether it was 13 or 19. It's lower than you'd want. Does that matter at all in your grades? No, it really doesn't. It's lower than you would want. You're right.

I think with Tua, he's more of an instinctive player. This isn't like Tom Brady who's going to take a five-step drop and stay in the field and make something happen. This is more of a modern quarterback. He's going to move around. And we would have called it backyard football 10 years ago. He's going to draw back. he's going to scramble around and look for something to happen.

And I believe that his vision on the move is good enough to make for the fact that, you know, he's not going to sit back and analyze and process what he sees from the pocket. He's six foot tall. He's going to play on the move anyway, just like Russell Wilson does, just like Kyler-Murray does, just like Patrick Mahomes does. I think he's going to be just fine regardless of what that Wonderlich score is. No one in Alabama seemed to worry about it when they had him come in a half-time to replace Jalen Hurts to win a national championship.

I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue. Now, I've been told for years, Matt Miller Bleacher Report, NFL Draft Scout, I've been told for years by my GM friends that after about the 17th pick, there's usually 16 to 17 guys that are really elite players with very few limitations. And then from mid-first to about top of third, very talented guys could be pro bowlers, but there may be a limitation somewhere in their game. If I said to you, you don't even have to name names, how many guys are in this draft that you would bank on it are pro bowlers very early?

Four, maybe five, not very many. Because I think we're the strength of this year is offensive line, and that's a really hard position to transition into. We're just now seeing Laramie Tunsell and Ronnie Stanley become the players they were expected to be, and they were drafted four years ago. So I think, you know, I'll name names. I feel good about Chase Young. I feel good about Joe Burrow, Jeff Akuta, Isaiah Simmons.

And after that, you know, receivers drafted in the first round don't have a great track record. Yeah. You know, sometimes with tackles drafted in the first round takes them a while to acclimate and transition. So if you're betting, you know, higher than that in this class, you've got a crystal ball that I would love to borrow because you're seeing something that's not there yet. What about Burroughs arm? Does it worry you at all or his hand size? No, because, you know, with hand size, when I look at that, it's definitely I have a trouble with bumbles. You know, Mahomes has a nine-inch hand. He has the strongest arm in the NFL probably. So I don't think there's a question. correlation between hand size and arm strength. With Burrow, no, he does not have the strongest arm, but he throws with incredible

touch and anticipation. And if you don't have a Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes type arm, you just got to be a little bit faster on your process or you've got to see it a little bit faster than what the defense can close it down. I think Joe does that. And also, like we were saying with to it, he gets out of the pocket so well. He's incredibly poised when pressure. His eyes are always downfield scanning, looking for open targets, so many times this

year. He made plays on second platform or third platform where he had to get off his spot, move around and still make the throw. So I see him having a very, very good ability to do that. And I think that's why the lack of a great arm is going to be okay for him. What if 99 is Chase Young, is Justin Herbert low 80s? Because I know you're kind of, you're okay on him. You're not that high. Yeah, I put him in exactly, let me, an 89. So I'm sure at 89 on Herbert. So I've come up a little bit since the last. last time we talked. I think with Herbert, I'm always going to be a little bit afraid that he's going to be the guy that makes me look very, very wrong because he has the tools. We just haven't

seen him put it together yet. So I know as we talked about last time, he gets somewhere, maybe it's Miami, where they can put it all together for him, you know, where he's throwing on rhythm, you're letting him use his mobility a little bit. Then I think he could be a good starter because at some level you have to have the athletic trade. You have to have the arm. You have to have the mobility. and he has that. And that's something we can't say that about Tua. We can't say that about Jake Fromm. You can't say that about Jalen Hurst.

Herbert, just to check the box of what a guy has in terms of traits, trait-wise, he's the best quarterback in the class. It feels like the offensive class is way deeper than the defensive class, is it? It is. You're right. That's something I actually hadn't noticed that. But you're right. I think it gets lost because we're all so excited about Chase Young

and Jeff Akuta and Isaiah Simmons. you know, four of the, or three of the top five players are defenders. But after that, I think there's a significant drop-off to. He's like Derek Brown's a good player, a defensive tackle from Auburn, but he's a nose tackle. He's not going to have 12 sacks in the NFL. He's going to be, you know, a difference maker on first and second down. You know, with the corner, C.J. Henderson's a good corner. He can be a good player.

But there's some holes to his game. With the offensive class, you know, there's be four quarterbacks drafted in, maybe in the top 10 picks, definitely in the first round. There's going to be six receivers drafted in the first round. There's been four tackles drafted in the top 14 picks. So it's definitely deeper this year. The early look at next year, though, is that that's going to even out. Next year's class on defense already looks like it's going to be very, very strong. And we'll hope to get that balance back a little bit.

By the way, who's the best tack? There's a bunch of tackles I like. Who's your favorite? Mine is Jedrick Wills out of Alabama. I know he played right tackle, but as we were talking about, two is the left-hander. So he's still protecting the blind side. I think it's footwork is so, so good. Yes.

One of the little nuances that kind of gets lost in evaluating, because it's not sexy. You can't, it's not a 4-8-5 at the combine like Tristan Wharf. It's easy to digest and understand. It's the little things that he does, just like Jerry Judy, at receiver. Not that big, not that fast. He does everything right. And I think that's how Jeddrick Wills is too. All right, good stuff.

Matt Miller, good luck to you. Thanks for coming on, buddy. I appreciate it, Colin. Have a good week. You bet. Whether you're working from home or on your fitness, you want to hear your music, not your roommates and Raycon's wireless earbuds are the way to go. 15%

off. Your Raycon order at Buyraycon.com slash H-E-R-D. I love it. What a show. You know, usually our shows in the last three weeks. We had the Tom Brady's going to the Buccaneer show. I drove into that day and it was like,

all right, that's an easy one. Today was one of those shows where you just you had so much on the table. The Michael Jordan documentary was fantastic. the first two parts. It's going to get really interesting because I believe the next part, they're talking about the Pistons.

Yeah, is that part four? And boy, that is, I'm telling you, man, those were, you know, you don't like to use, you know, military metaphors, but those were wars. Those were physical battles. And remember, the NBA, their legislation at the time allowed that. So if, you know, people say the players were tougher back then, Well, if back then had no hand check and today had a hand check,

well, the game today would be different because you'd be elbowing guys. I mean, listen, man, you were getting elbowed and leaning on guys and pushing them. You know, if somebody pushed you in sports for two and a half hours, you would get feisty too. So the rules change. The rules, the NBA said finally, these guys are too valuable to tackle. We're not going to let you hand check them. We're going to free up.

This is what hockey did. No more clutching and grabbing. We want to let our stars be stars. and it makes for better hockey. And it makes for better basketball if you can't tackle LeBron James. Mac Brown, friend of Michael. North Carolina coach, hour three next.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Ah, here we go. Hour three absolutely loaded live in L.A. This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, we're on iHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and F.S. one and Sirius XM Channel 83.

Very interesting. So Ahmad Rashad was on a while ago, and I said, we know that Kobe fashioned his game after Michael. Who did Michael fashion his game after? And I said, I get David Thompson, who played at NC State. And Ahmad Rashad said, there was a guy that played for Denver, and I couldn't think of the name. Amad has texted us.

It was Walter Davis. Now, I remember the Walter Davis great player. He also was a tar heel. Walter Davis broke into the NBA. Very good, very quickly for the Phoenix Suns. He played for Phoenix forever. Number six. And so he was a tar heel.

And so it's interesting, who Michael Jordan grew up with, and a lot of younger fans won't remember, Walter Davis was this long, wiry, explosive player from, I think, like, he was from North Carolina and then went to Carolina. It was a very good NBA player for Phoenix and then Denver. And then David Thompson, who was wildly athletic. David Thompson is, I think he got injured,

was the first, like, 45-inch vertical guy that I remember. He was like in the 70s. He played for NC State. So that's kind of cool. So Ahmad got back to us, and he had said a guy played for Denver, but I remember the Walter Davis so much in Phoenix, because those Phoenix teams in the 80s, they were a handful. If I recall, it was Alvin Adams and Walter Davis and Paul Westfall,

and they beat my Sonics every time down in Phoenix at least. Joy Taylor is joining us. So the documentary was great last night, Joy, it was great. Yeah, I mean, we've all really been looking forward to it, obviously, but it was incredible. It's nice to have something that we're all collectively watching together that we can all agree on as sports fans, not like, you know, Tiger King or...

Right, right. Love is Blind, which are great shows, but, you know, we're all watching this together and discussing it. Yes. Two things that struck me. Let's start with Michael. I was really struck because I saw behind the scenes footage that, you know, I didn't get a see. Did you notice how his first year in the NBA, he's a kid, and it's a bad team, and it's a bad roster, and it's a bunch of cokeheads. But how refined and how polished and how smart third practice in, he established himself as the guy among 28-year-old veterans who had made a lot of money.

Michael was very polished, and that's what happens when you go to a university, and you hang out with people that are interested in a lot of things, and Michael Jordan loved college. And between his good parents, his great coach, Dean Smith, and the college experience, Michael came out of college refined and smart and polished and capable a month in of being a superstar in the league. the NBA's latest model does not project that way. They want you to go high school to G League and play for the Fort Wayne Mad Ants

and a D-level coach. And I've said this before. I don't expect high school guys to go to college for four years because the money's too great and I like to get guys paid too. But the idea there's no value for Zion to go to Duke. You watched that last night. Michael Jordan was ready to be not only physically, but emotionally ready to be the star.

And that's parents, and that's Dean Smith, and that's the college experience. I don't understand marginalizing it, that it has no value. I've never understood that. It is a wonderful six-month platform to take a young man and say, we're going to mature you up a little bit.

You're going to be around global citizens. We're going to give you it. Now we know the team's not great, but we're going to prop you up and let people see you. and I think Kentucky for a year is better than the Rio Grande Valley Vipers for six months. Even though you're not going to get money, I just think it's a better experience. So I was really impressed by how refined Michael was. The second thing is, you know, as Twitter is prone to do, there was all this sympathy for Scotty Pippinan.

Oh, this is terrible his contract. Now, first of all, Scotty grew up, his dad had a stroke, and his brother got paralyzed in junior higher high school. Really, I got a soft spot for Scotty Pipp and I covered him in Portland. But let's not go crazy here. The owner of the Chicago Bulls told Scotty do not sign this contract. You don't want to sign an eight-year contract. Scotty did. Secondly, Scotty was underpaid.

Michael Jordan was more underpaid. Michael Jordan signed an eight-year, $25 million contract in 1988. It lasted in 1996. And I want you to think about this. That's the best player in the world. And he was the best player in the world halfway through his rookie season. So for seven and a half years, he won four titles, four finals, four finals, three regular season MVP, six scoring titles.

And you think Scotty was underpaid? Michael Jordan carried the league. Remember this. Forget about the Chicago Bulls. As Joy pointed out, they were. less popular than an indoor soccer team in town. And overnight, they talked about this last night, filled the arena.

You could go. Barack Obama's like, you, he goes, I didn't have any money. I couldn't afford to go. But they were charging $3 to go. And suddenly it was $20 to sit up in the rafters. So he not only made the Bulls rich, the league was, it just exploded with Michael. Everywhere Michael went, by the end of year one,

everywhere he went. So, listen, Scotty was underpaid and his very modest childhood. Looks like they didn't grow up with much money. It's really amazing. But Michael Jordan's the most underpaid athlete ever. And I know that sounds absolutely crazy. But can you imagine,

could you imagine, like, take anybody, take a Joe Burrow. Winning four Super Bowls? and four MBPs, any of these young rookies, and not getting, I mean, now the NFL's kind of got it slotted. Here's what you make. But I understand the sympathy for Scotty in his life. But, you know, the Bulls tried to talk him out of it.

And Michael's contract was brutal. Now, Michael had enormous shoe revenue. But, you know, still, you know, and sometimes in, and this happens a lot in life where sometimes you get paid for what, you've done. I think if you own a team, it's smarter to pay people for what they'll give you, not what they've done. But in the end, Michael was very well compensated. And so was Scotty. He just had to move. There's been a story out there regarding that Michael Jordan would not let these tapes out. And then he watched LeBron holding a trophy in Akron, in Cleveland. And Michael's

got an enormous brand. And, you know, he's thinking, I don't want this to ding my brand. People are starting to say, LeBron's the greatest of all time. And I asked Ahmad Rashad, Michael's friend, are these reports true? There is some sense that, you know, LeBron is starting to get elevate. I mean, we never talked about LeBron better than Jordan. All of a sudden, he comes back on the Warriors 3-1. He's unstoppable. He wins in Cleveland.

Everybody starts talking about that. Maybe that's the best player. Is that, I asked Amad Rashad, why MJ decided, okay, let's let the tapes go. Not at all. Not even the furthest thing from his mind. His whole attitude about this whole thing is, you know what, I did what I did, and there it is, you can decide whatever you want where that stands. There's no competitive feeling in him about, you know, who was better and there's no competition between him and LeBron, none whatsoever. You mean, you can't draw him into any sort of conversation like that. The way he comes back and says, you know what, you can't compare errors. Because if there's no way that you can't compare eras and you can't. And he said, plus, we're never going to play one-on-one. So what, it's just a sports conversation about, you know, one person's saying, this guy was the greatest, the other person saying that guy was the greatest, but that's what sports is all about. You know, the other thing is, because of social media now, you can actually tweet LeBron James or tweet Damien Lillard.

Back then, it was, you know, you could, I could tweet any sportscaster, any music star, I could tweet Mark Cuban, the owner of an NBA team. I could tweet Adam Silver. Back when Michael played, there was no social media. You didn't have the availability. Not all the games were on television. So, you know, when Michael came into your town, you'd seen him on the national game of the week,

but you didn't get every Bulls game all the time. And frankly, you didn't have social media to connect with him. So there is a, stars felt, a little more special. I mean, I live, Joy and I live, not that far from Hollywood. I can go to a restaurant, Craggs, in Hollywood. I can see Tom Hanks. I mean, it's just, Tom Hanks is on Twitter, Tom Hanks is on Instagram. I get little bits and pieces of Tom Hanks every day. And you can see him out in public. But sometimes with Jordan, I'm watching the footage last night, and it was like, you know, he came from the mountains. You know, a lot of people are like,

This is the only time in my life I'm going to see Michael Jordan. You know, people, you forget the world we lived in. When Michael Jordan broke into this league, NBA players flied commercial.

You were on the same flight potentially as Scotty Pippin. Can you imagine being on a flight in the 70s and early 80s sitting next to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? Guys, fly commercial. It's just, it's just,

just crazy. That means some of your players, Phil Jackson's 6-7. When he broke into this league, he had to fly coach. Phil Jackson was flying coach. Coach? The guy's got their own private jet lines now. Mack Brown's around the corner, Carolina football coach. Then he went to Texas, became a legend, back to Carolina, rebuilding it again. Friend of Michael Jordan, some stories coming up with Mac Brown. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, Week days in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Well, it's great to have you. And our show emanates from Southern California. If you ask USC fans the most heartbreaking loss on the history of their program, it's that Texas loss. But the good news for me is Mack Brown, who I love, won that national championship at Texas.

He's in his second go-around as a college football Hall of Famer with North Carolina. At one point, had 20 straight winning seasons. really a legend. I mean, I, he is, I mean, I, I follow college football for a long time. So I remember the Carolina days. Everybody saw the Texas days. And what do you know? He's got Carolina winning and they are recruiting like crazy. A top five class in 2021. Here we go. And Mack Brown is joining us. First of all, Mack, it's just great to talk to you. Thank you for coming on our show. I know you're a busy guy. Well, thank you, Colin. Thanks for having me on. And looking forward to catching up. It is funny when I travel across the United States and people come up and say, I hate you.

I said, when did you go to the U.S.C.? I can tell pretty quickly that that's their problem. Yeah, that's the greatest college football game I've ever been to. And by the way, I sat in the middle of Texas fans. They had so much grace. It is such a wonderful program. And we all just knew we were witnessing history. We all knew.

I mean, let's just start with that. Go back to that game. Did you know when you're on that sideline, Mac, this was a prize fight for the ages that this would be talked about beyond the moment? I thought it would be because both teams had won so many games and it was a clear cut number one versus number two, which we haven't had a lot of the time, Colin. It's a problem with all of our playoffs at the end. But it was clear. And it was clear for a full year. both teams were averaging 50 points a game and 250 yards rushing, 250 yards passing.

I think 60-something players played in the NFL off of those two teams. Wow. Two of the great quarterback to ever play. So, yes, we thought it would be a game that would come down to the end. Even at halftime, we were hit 16 to 10. And we said, guys, these guys won a bunch of games now. They're not going away. So really fitting that it came down to the last drive.

Yeah, it is just, it was on television. Somebody ran it about three weeks ago to a month ago, and it's goosebumps. I mean, it's like watching an old classic Ollie Frazier fight. So I'm watching the Michael Jordan documentary last night, and you're friends with Michael. You know, I really, I love seeing Roy Williams. It always feels like to me, I'm looking at a picture of you and Michael taking about a year ago, that Michael still has such deep love for Carolina. That's what it feels like to me as an outsider.

Is that the reality of what it is? Absolutely. We have the Jordan brand shoes for football, which only Michigan, Oklahoma, Florida, and North Carolina have. So, I mean, we talk about him daily. We even have a Michael Jordan experience room in our new field house. And he's got a wonderful quote in there that he gave us last week. week, and he's been so gracious, but he loves this place so much.

And he was, he finished right before I got here before, Colin. And then we watched him with his run in Chicago. And he would be back in Chapel Hill a lot. And he's always so gracious. And it was so much fun for me last night because Roy Williams is a really good trend right now that's a Hall of Fame basketball coach on our campus. And he was an assistant at that time. Yeah.

To speak coach Smith, talk last night and, and go. back and understand how valuable he was to that sport and how he cared about people and how he would be one of those guys that would tell Michael Jordan, no, you don't need to stay. You need to go. You're in a great position. And how many coaches would do that? And I thought that was one of the real telling things for me last night. The other thing that was telling is that it's easy for us to say here.

But in Chapel Hill, there is no question he is the best to ever play. And we can say that because he, what an incredible athlete, but he compete so hard. And he's such a leader. And that's the way he still is. I saw him last year. And I said, why'd you give these other schools, Michael Jordan Branch. You should have given them to us. And he said, you need to start winning.

You start winning some games at my school. Then we talk. And I talk, yeah, well, he's right. I'll keep my mouth up. You know, did, have you ever had a football player? I mean, Vince Young is arguably the best high school football player I've ever seen. Is there even a football player you've ever had that was at least in terms of relentlessness and competition and improvement that had, I mean, doesn't have to be the greatest player ever, but mirrored some of Michael's qualities?

I think you start looking at Cedric Benson, you start looking at Ricky Williams, you start looking at Derek Johnson, Roy Williams, some of the best RACPo, some of the best ever play at their position. But the combination of this guy, the way he competes, the way he led, the fact that he won six championships, I mean, these are just unheard of things. So he was a freakish athlete because to get all those things in one person is just unheard of.

You know, it's funny. Scotty Pippen physically was a late bloomer. Michael was kind of a late bloomer. Dennis Rodman was. And we see that all the time in football. I want to talk a couple of guys in college football. I love Tua, and I would draft him despite his injuries. But let me tell you, let me ask you, if you ever recruited a high school athlete and you passed on him

because you were worried, heck, he got hurt at the high school level, he's going to get hurt at the college level, would you be, what's the balance between while this Tua kid is great and, man, I'm worried about the injuries? If he's great enough that I think he can win the Super Bowl, and the medical team says he's going to be fine with our modern medicine, and move forward and drafting. That simple.

We had some great ones, Colin, that we took, that were hurt, and they ruined their knee, and we called immediately and said that, I'm sorry, you've still got a scholarship at Texas. You've still got a scholarship at North Carolina. We're moving forward. And with modern medicine, as long as the doctors say he'll be, fine, you just move on. And I've talked to a lot of the scouts about Tua and said, will this matter? And they've said, the scouts will only look at his ability. The medical

team will get the analogy of whether he's physically ready to go or not, but that'll have nothing to do from the evaluation side of his draft. You know, there's a kid. I saw him in high school. I saw him in San Diego. I went to a high school football camp, quarterback camp, and I saw Trevor Lawrence when he was 17. And I can remember telling friends, I'm like, I think that's the most talented high school quarterback I've ever seen. And he's in your conference now. Vince Young similarly, like 18 years old, just look different.

This kid just, he has a whip. You got to watch Trevor Lawrence on film. Joe Burroughs obviously very good. The first time you got to look at Trevor Lawrence as a high school or a college player, What was your first reaction? That he's the first round draft choice. And that he gives Clemson a chance to win the national championship. If you could go back and look at the player that makes the difference in the best teams in the country is the quarterbacks.

And the best teams have the most highly rated quarterbacks. And Trevor's in that group. I could not believe early this year, in fact, after our game where they beat us by one point, we'll start being critical of him. I guess they thought we weren't any good, so they didn't give us any credit. He just beat him up, but he played great in that game. I mean, he is just a freakish player. He was the difference with his feet against Ohio State.

And I think that's what happened to him after midseason is he started being the dual threat player where he could beat you with his feet or his arm. And when you spread those guys out with those tall receivers, and then you've got ATN as a running back, And then you've got him that can run the zone read, the quarterback counters and can scramble. That makes them very difficult to stop. North Carolina is Mack Brown,

the Hall of Fame coach, joining us. Mack, what would be, I mean, there's a lot of very, very encouraging news on the coronavirus in the last 48 hours of declining, flattening rates. What would be the last day that you could start your training for this season? Is there a cutoff date,

July 15th or something like that, where if you started after that, you'd be concerned about your kids' health. Colin, we've talked to a lot of the coaches have talked to trainers and medical people, and I think everybody would like to have six weeks, but they feel like we could live with four. If you go back to the old days, we didn't even have summer school, and you were at home, and they sent you a workout program and said show up in August and be in shape. so all of the coaches are really encouraging their players to be in shape help yourself help us help help the fans help us get our game back because if and when they tell us and they'll tell us

at some point it's time to come back let's don't say oh gosh i wish i'd worked harder yeah let's be accountable let's be in shape and and our kids have been incredible i've just uh it's been really heartwarming to watch one of our players running in the hallway of his apartment complex because he couldn't get outside. It was storming and watching kids jogging with packbacks full of books. And they've been really incredible at taking this horrible virus, horrible pandemic, and getting some positive things out of it. You know, Mack, it's funny.

When ever I hear people complain about young kids, I'm like, timeout. My kids are so much smarter than I was. They're so much more curious and empathetic. You went back into college coaching, and my theory is it makes you feel young. There's nothing better than being around young people as you age. We can all sit in a golf course, but you know, and I, you deal now with these 1760 and you're a great recruiter. Is it, is part of this selfishly, it just makes you feel young again being around kids. Absolutely. There's no reason you wouldn't hire an older experience coach that's won unless it's two reasons. You think he doesn't have the energy or the passion or he can't relate to young people. And I feel younger right now, and I fell for years because these guys just keep me stimulated and they get me excited. I love watching them and they're so bright, like you said, our future is so great.

Yeah. These young people out there, I hate people saying, oh, they'll leave old kids. We're just sitting around wanting to be great because they're wonderful. They're smart. They're driven. And I came back into coaching to be around them, to be around the coaches. And that's what I'm missing so much. We're in a relationship business.

And we're kind of grieving right now because we can't get out and be around people. You know, I like to hug people. I like to laugh. I like to have them. I like to cut up with them. And we can't do any of that now. Zoom's just not the same. Right.

But the kids are, they're picking me up. I'm having our players call me and text me, you okay? You're hanging in there. We'll be back, coach. Everything's going to be fine. I'm thinking, here are these kids trying to pick their coach up. It's amazing. UNC, the Tar Heels, Mac Brown, as good a guy as the sport has.

I'm so happy. I think everybody's happy for you. You know, I had Herm Edwards on last week. I love what he's doing at Arizona State. I love what you're doing at Carolina. And thank you so much for taking time for our show. Thanks, Colin. I love you.

I love your show and appreciate you having me out. Mac Brown. That's cool. I'm looking at a picture right here. I'll show it to the audience. I want to show you this picture right here. You got Mac Brown and Michael Jordan right there. That was taken a year ago.

I got to tell you, I found Michael so likable on TV. Now, there's going to be a couple episodes where you're not going to be. be nearly as likable, where he's beating up on Scotty Borrell. But you know what? Play hard. Michael didn't have a problem with you. I would rather have somebody be authentic with. I tell my daughter this the other day because she got really mad at me. And I said, I'm giving you the authentic me.

I'm not a phony. When I'm mad at you, I snap. So don't make me snap. She didn't like that answer. But I would rather have somebody be honest with me and not feed me a bunch of bull. Right? And Michael was like he'd turn around and go, come on. He was snapping at Ron Harper and he was snapping at Koo Coach and what are you waiting for and let's go.

It's like, all right, tell me what you're mad at me about and let me fix it. The worst is passive aggressive when somebody's mad at you in the house and they're all moody for like weeks. Just confront it. You can never accuse MJ of not being transparent. Yeah, he's authentic, he's real and care about winning or else you're useless to him. Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. Well, someone who did not come across very likable in the premiere of The Last Dance Last Night was GM Jerry Krause. He was widely already considered the villain of the Bulls dynasty story, but that was pretty much verified last night. He was said to be resentful that he didn't get more credit for the team's success. Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen were both very open about their disdain for Kraus and even mocked him in front of the rest of the team.

Brodal. His relationship with Phil Jackson also deteriorated when Jackson didn't get the compensation he wanted, and Kraus made it clear that the 97-98 season would be Jackson's last. Some pretty notable lines that I think will stick with us moving forward. Jordan telling Jerry to get in the layup line and they'll have to lower the rim. I mean, we're seeing a really raw behind-the-reve-y-law.

scenes version of a very glorified, rightfully so, dynasty. So, and we were reliving why these dynasties end. Yeah. My takeaway from it wasn't necessarily just that Jerry Kraus and the owner, you know, had these situations with these players. We all know dynasties end. That's the way it goes. It's either from injury or egos or age, right?

But they're going to end eventually because everything ends eventually. Yeah. It's not that I thought they were going to win 10 chance. championships. But it is when you're watching that, it does give you a great deal of frustration. When you look at it macro, how could you ever let your ego become bigger than the Bulls dynasty? That's how guys are. I mean, the Lakers ruined it. I mean, Shaq and Kobe and you had, you know, you had West and you had Phil and everybody wanted credit and the bus family. And this is what you women don't have to deal with this. This is what the guys ruined dynasties. That's why the Brady Belichick thing, it's like, it lasted 20 years.

Are you guys crazy? The guys can't last five minutes if somebody's not getting credit. Yeah, the male ego is a mystery. But I will say, even with that, it was remarkable that they held that all together for as long as it did. Because you just look at the situation. I mean, it's just so embarrassing, like the way that Scotty was handled. Even the owner talking about, like, he's just absolutely not going to renegotiate. sometimes you just have to look at the bigger picture of things.

And I'm with you. Like we have to take in consideration what was going on in the league then. It sounds like such a small number compared to what Jordan was being paid. But yeah, Jerry Carlson did not come across great. And I don't know how well that would be received in today's game. You want to talk about eras? Yeah, that behavior would not last in today's game at all, no matter how much winning you're doing.

No one's putting up with that. Yeah, I mean, players made. $5 million. Now they make $35 million and that changes. But also, I think fans and media would just destroy the front office. We're very hard on front offices when they are dysfunctional. I mean, look at how, you know, we cover the Knicks. Like, we have no tolerance for how things go wrong with them. And they don't have the Bulls dynasty going on.

So it just wouldn't work. Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news. Were you done, by the way? Um, no, I had two more to go. I was going to say, why did I, I thought to myself, you paused and I thought,

Joy Taylor's not done. Give me your stories. Okay. I don't know why I cut you off. You paused. I paused. I fooled you there. It's my fault.

Jimmy Butler, speaking of the NBA, is helping out his heat, he teammates during the NBA hiatus. He sent portable basketball hoops to each Miami player and coach so they would have access to one while practicing while the facilities are closed. That's pretty cool. He's also donating some of the same baskets to youth centers around Miami to be used once the centers are open again. It's kind of interesting, though. I feel like if you could, if you had a space, wouldn't you get a hoop? So maybe he's, but you know what, though, I will say.

Sometimes, you know, there's a lot going on. Maybe guys are just getting into a little bit of a rut from having to wait. And this is just like a little emotional boost for everyone like, hey, you know, don't just settle for the situation. Yeah. You know, just being encouraging. I know we're all... You said it in the meeting, or maybe on the show earlier,

but it doesn't just make you miss the NBA so much. Oh, yeah. I just... I just, you know, listen, man, it's nothing against the Amazon Prime and Hulu and all this stuff. I'm kind of over it. Like, I was telling a friend yesterday

that when you watch the Netflix, it's a lot of dark themes. I mean, let's be honest. It's a lot of murder. It's a lot of chaos. That's what they sell. They package it and produce it. I am so ready for,

uplifting sports and winners and competition. I mean, I can only watch. I'm now, I told my wife yesterday. I'm now watching movies. I've passed over for three years that I don't really want to watch. And then halfway through them, I'm like, God, give me an NBA game.

Like, there's a reason I passed up on these movies for three years, and now I'm watching them, and I'm like, they're just not that good. I've gone, I've watched half of about six movies in the last month. And just right now is supposed to to be the start of the playoffs.

And, you know, we had this incredible situation with the Lakers and the clippers and, you know, what feels like a historic run. So, yeah, I'm missing it. I hope they get the season in. Finally, now we're finally. The Patriots are the latest team to unveil new uniforms for 2020. I had no idea all of these uniform edits were happening. It's actually a good way to get free publicity during the virus.

Well, this year's primary blue home jerseys have been alternates since originally. as a color Russian 2016 and the road jersey is new with an addition of blue and red stripes to the white uniform. I can't see it. How is it? I really like them. They're really modern looking. I think it's a nice update to their uniform. Can you turn around your computer? Yeah, we'll turn this around here. This is very prehistoric. Yes, this is what we're doing here. See it there? It's got like a, you know, some solid thicker stripes on the side.

That's less boring than the previous ones. Yeah, but they just have like, it's a real strong look. I like it. And they're also, they'll also use red uniforms with the Pat Patriots logo on the helmet. So lots of new uniforms around the league this year. Yeah, we liked, I think you and I didn't love Atlanta. I did like Tampa. I did like Cleveland.

And I like those. I didn't really notice a dramatic difference in Cleveland's, but apparently I was told that was wrong. They are really different. I like these and I do like Tampa's. Atlanta's is, it'll grow on me. But I, I really, of all the updates, these are my favorite. Coming up next, good stuff.

Joy with the news. Coming up next. We're going to do trending up or trending down. We're going to take the primary figures in the MJ dock last night. Do I like them more? Do I respect them more? Do I like them less after that sneak peek and behind the scenes look at all the players and the leading figures in the MJ documentary? Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app.

Tonight on FS1, relived the 2017 college football double overtime thriller between Sam Darnold's U.S.C. Trojans and Texas. Fox Sports presents greatest games tonight at 8 Eastern on FS1 and the Fox Sports app. Oh, I was at that game. That was good. That was a good one. Coliseum was lit. That was very good. All right, last dance finally premiered last night. We're going to play a game up, down, sideways, trending up, down. All the key characters or storylines. Do I feel they were well represented? They came across better, worse, or even.

Joy, here we go. Michael Jordan, trending up, trending down, or sideways. I would say trending up. I thought listening to his mother read the letter he wrote from college and him laughing was incredibly. likable and relatable. We're all poor in college, asking his mom for money and stamps. I also thought when he had, he belly laughed when he was told the, he had never heard this before. The Bulls team he joined was called the traveling cocaine circus. Listen, Mike was tough, but I don't get to see the laughing Michael ever. I get to see the businessman,

the smiling Michael occasionally, but I thought he came across as softer, likable and kind of funny. I agree. Doesn't this song give you chills? No, it's so good. Hippin, trending up, turning down, or sideways. I'll say sideways. Listen, his childhood story is incredibly endearing. His dad had a stroke. His brother was paralyzed.

But, you know, Michael didn't shy away from calling him selfish, where he basically said, I want to have a fun summer. I'm not going to rehab. And then he got surgery too late. And, I mean, basketball is a team game. And he was underpaid, but so was Michael. So I think we're exaggerating how bad Scott he had it. He was the best number two player, the best Robin in the history of the league.

He was recognized as that. And did very well for himself. Let's just say that financially. Steve Kerr, trending up, down, or sideways. I thought he'd trended up. I mean, first of all, he hasn't aged much. Second of all, he sounded like a coach even when he was a player. I did think he took a shot at Jerry Krause, which I didn't know if he would do when he said,

you know, Jerry did a lot of good stuff, but he could not get out of his own way, which I thought was incredibly honest. because I think Jerry Krause has passed. Yes. Yeah, he's passed. So, you know, a lot of times somebody passes, everybody, you know, just says nice stuff. But I thought I thought Kerr was honest about it. And he looked every bit the coach.

When I watch that, it's not surprising he's a coach. Yeah, absolutely. Phil Jackson, trending up, turning down or sideways. I thought a big trend up. The fact that Scotty Pippen didn't rehab until later, he could have been furious. and he just made it work. He said Scotty was going through a lot. I just, I think the ability to manage Krause and Pippen and Jordan,

that was a, he was a well-compensated babysitter for long stretches in Chicago. We always knew Phil was a great coach, but he looks really good in this so far. Zen Master. Jerry Reinsdorf, trending up, down or sideways. Down. So he chose to keep Jerry Krause. over bringing back Jordan, Pippin, and Phil. Now remember this.

When those guys left, right? Do you remember who won the East when they left? There's a bunch of crappy teams from New Jersey. They could have brought those guys after you win a title. You're six. Just bring the band back. Michael was still unstoppable. So in the end, Reinsdorf was too consumed with the future,

and they still, I think, would have won the East. Jerry Krause, turning up, down or sideways. That's, you know, I knew it was bad. I mean, we all read the story. I lived through it. I read the stories. You knew it was bad. It was worse.

So petty. You know, somebody said, and it was kind of cruel, but at some point, one of the guys said he grew up as the short fat kid, and he never got over it. I thought he came across as needy and childish and juvenile. You know, he was a baseball scout that Reinsdorf liked. But he, you know, he deserves the criticism.

And again, he made a nice move on Scotty Pippen. Nobody's denying that. Well, if you're a GM for 15 years, you've got to make one or two great moves. But in the end, the fact that he couldn't get along with stars, the NBA's a star-driven league. Suck it up and get along with people. Yeah, you can only get so much credit for putting it together.

You've got to keep it together, too. The Bulls Dynasty, up, down, or sideways? I think it's sideways. I think it's exactly what I thought. You know, I didn't learn a ton. but I think it was it showed the glamour of it. It showed the relentlessness of it. It showed the toughness of it.

And it showed Michael's stardom. It, you know, it just took me back to talking about this team 20 years ago all the time. So it felt the same. The truth slash mythology trending up, trending down or trending. Okay. Trending down. We got to get over this. Michael Jordan was cut.

First of all, Michael Jordan was 5'10 and got cut from the varieg. He then came back the following years, five and a half inches taller and still growing. So he was 6'3 and everybody's like, he's way taller now. And he's a guard in high school at 6.3. And for the record, Michael Jordan was a high school All-American. It's called a McDonald's All-American. Let's slow down. Scotty Pippen was a late bloomer.

Rodman was a late bloomer. Most people I know in my business are a little late bloomers. We didn't go to prep schools. We didn't go to Yale. My Michael was a small kid as a freshman in high school. And then he popped and grew like five inches. I think I was telling you this, Joy. So in high school, I was like 5'7, my junior year high school.

So when I left, I just got my license. I came back four months later and I was 6'2. So boys, you said you stopped growing at how old? Probably eighth grade. I've been the same height since then. Girls stopped growing generally way earlier than the boys do. So I grew five inches in one summer. And it was funny watching Scotty Pippen.

So Scotty Pippen was a little guy and he dribble the ball around. And then he grew and all of a sudden he was 6-7, but he was still, he had guard qualities. We've heard this about Anthony Davis. So with boys that play basketball, especially if they're little guys like 5-11, 5-10, then all of a sudden they get the 6-5, they handle the ball. As long as they're dribbling throughout the growth process. says Anthony Davis handles the ball really well at 6.11 and a half because he was a guard at one point. And he popped for seven inches in one year. So I think the mythology is a little overplayed. But, you know, it's a, it's fun. I was always hoping I'd get that extra. Yeah. Gross part. It never happened. My daughter was a little basketball player. And I always like, I don't want her to be six, five. That would be maybe a more difficult life with clothes and everything. But she stopped growing kind of like eighth grade year.

And then you're five, five, eight, it's five, seven and a half. Five, eight. Yeah, I'm five, two. So I could have used a couple more. You could have used that big gross spurt. With today's health concerns, it's more important than ever to take care of your body. Eat right and sleep right. I have a supplement every morning MDrive Elite.

Go to MDrive for Men.com. The code is heard for 20% off. It's elite at testosterone, which I can't go to a gym anymore. And elite immune help, which these days is everything. Take your M Drive. Thanks so much, everybody. Thanks to Mack Brown and Amadro Shod. What a fun show today on a Monday.

That was great. Tomorrow, Russell Wilson and the Seahawks and legendary broadcaster Al Michaels stops by. Hope you enjoyed our Monday. We'll see you tomorrow. It's the hurry. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the north. breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source

the athletes themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. Space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you comments. conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

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