The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Middlekauff – 3 & Out – Defending anonymous NFL Draft sources; Larry Fitzgerald should have pulled an A.B; Elway should trade for Rosen

Episode Date: March 8, 2019

In this episode, Middlekauff defends anonymous NFL Draft sources, explains why John Elway should trade for Josh Rosen, lists some players that would have been better off demanding a trade like Antonio Brown, and answers questions in Middlekauff's Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to www.theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

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What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring. you just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Royal Caribbean, an award-winning global cruise line. A vacation is what you make it. So are you ready to make the most of it? A Royal Caribbean Adventure is the perfect opportunity to not just take a vacation, but to take it for all its worth. We know you're eager to get back out there,

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Back at it again, Friday. I'm actually recording this on a Thursday. You're listening to this. Actually, headed to Scottsdale this weekend for a little bachelor party. Gonna get loose. Let my hair down. I actually don't have any hair, so I can't really do that. So recording this on a Thursday afternoon.

Gonna dive into the Middilcoft Mailbag, as I always do a little later. Easiest way to get a hold of me. I answer questions. A lot of people do mailbags. The way I do them is on my Instagram. So you go into the direct messages and just ask me a question. And I'll answer it here. At John Middlecough is my Instagram handle.

It's also my Twitter handle. You can find me on YouTube all over the internet. So you like what you're hearing. I do a lot of different stuff. I have another podcast with Guy Haberman called Haberman. Middlecough right on the athletic. You can find me anywhere. I'm going to dive into something with anonymous sources

and just something I vehemently disagree with when it comes to the media crushing anonymous sources. Some thoughts on Antonio Brown and as I'm recording this, maybe by the time you're listening to this, he's been officially traded, he hasn't been officially traded as I'm recording this. But there is something interesting.

I know Larry Fitzgerald said last week that he would have gone about it differently. And what if Larry Fitzgerald had done, gone scorched earth once upon a time and maybe you ended up on the Packers or the Patriots. And I kind of listed out of some players that probably should have done this once upon a time. Maybe their career would be looked upon a little differently, almost in a defense of Antonio Brown. And then we'll talk more football. But I'm going to start with this.

You often hear this in, I guess you see this. I follow sports the closest. Politically, it's been hard these last couple years. just social media. It's just overwhelming. Clearly, unnamed sources are really big in politics, like they are in sports. But unnamed sources, and I have been one as a scout, kind of. I mean, not really. I helped a couple people on some draft articles, but I was not allowed to use my name. So if you're going to get mad at anonymous sources, and we've seen this with a lot of people blasting Charlie Casserly's sourcing for Kyler-Murie, where,

Well, if you're talking to a general manager or head coach, technically they have the juice and the right to put their name on it. They are at the top of the food chain. But if I'm just the West Coast Area Scout or I'm a pro director or a college director, I cannot put my name on something. And here's the thing. The media knows when they are asking you that you cannot put your name on it. Yet they know that usually you have the best information.

Because for the most part, when you're not a general manager or head coach, you don't have that much to gain or lose. Because as a, let's say I'm the West Coast Scout, or let's say I'm in the region of Kyler Murray. And I like Kyler Murray or don't like Kyler Murray. It's kind of irrelevant. Whatever I tell you on him, I'm just giving you my opinion on him.

It is not my decision to draft them or to not draft them. I am not the decision maker. So unless the decision maker tells you that, there's not, everyone freaks out, oh, it's lying season, all the anonymous sorts, No, unless it's a general manager or head coach, I would say for the most part, guys are just telling the truth. I text, I got several close buddies in the NFL that are not general managers. If I text them and ask them a question, yo, do you think Devin White is as good as Roquan Smith?

Yeah, I do. There's no angle on that one. We're just having a conversation. And some media members get duped, but I think now there are a lot of people maybe like me, Daniel Jeremiah, you see Greg Gabriel, Mike Mayock is now in the NFL, they have legitimate relationships with these people, that have a relationship with someone in the league that was not started on,

can I do something for you or can you do something for me? You work with them. And I was lucky enough to work for people that are now all over the league and all over the media and just all over the place. It was kind of a unique little think tank of people from Howie Roseman to Brett Veach to Lewis Riddick, to Phil Savage, who's running an AAS team. I was kind of lucky.

that I got all these guys and Ryan Grixon. I mean, I had a front row seat watching Ryan Grickson before he got the GM job. But when I ask someone an opinion and I get a text back from a coach that was in a meeting with Kyler Murray and he goes, yeah, I experience similar stuff than what Charlie was saying.

There's no agenda there. But here's the other thing. If that coach is not the head coach and the one I talked to was not, he can't put his name on crushing a player. That is not how the world works. So all these media members, are like, put your name on the quote.

Amy Trask is someone that I see freaking out like, you should put your name on it. Well, Amy, you worked in the NFL. You know they can't. Because guess what happens if you're a scout and you were to go, yeah, quote me on that. You get fired. You see this a lot with players.

Like when an anonymous player crushes, you know, the quarterback. Or anonymous player crushes the coach. For the most part, that player is probably not the $20 million player on the roster. There's a decent chance. That might be the backup guard. That might be the rotational linebacker. What happens in the hierarchy of any business if the guy near the bottom of the food chain crushes authority?

We're to say, you know what? I think this coach is an idiot. We have no clue what we're doing. I can't believe the scheme we're running. The game plan we implemented all week, you know, my mom could have figured this one out. I just, I think we have no chance to win on Sundays. Quote me, middle linebacker, John Middlecough. I would be released on Monday or Tuesday.

But if I have those thoughts and I feel like telling someone, I believe them. It's been my one, we'll get an Antonio Brown here in a minute. I do defend, like, say what you want about Antonio Brown. I wouldn't go about it the way he's going about. it but it's hard to disagree that yeah Rathsburger can say and do whatever he wants and there are no repercussions even when he completely fucks up no one can say a word everyone's thinking it we've all been in situations where the boss does something really stupid and every employee or every person under him are talking amongst themselves like what is going on but

if you went if you were somewhat of a public business and went to your local paper and told them that and put your name on it, you would get fired. So we see all this, and you're going to continue to see this over the next couple months, media people. I can't believe these scouts don't put their name on the quote. Of course they don't, because they would lose their job. And why does the media ask Joe Blow West Coast Scout about, you know, whoever, Nikiel Harrier, the best quarterback coming out?

Because he knows he'll get a good quote from him. He knows for the most part it will be unfiltered. I am close with multiple GMs. If I text them a question, they wouldn't even give me the juicy stuff. It's just they're too on edge this time of year. There's too much information out there. If I want the juicy stuff, I go right to the source. Bro, I text an assistant college director that's been through the school twice.

They give me the good stuff, and the media knows that too. and then they freak out on social media when they can't believe that things are said. Well, of course that's where they're said because you are the ones that get the quotes because you know those quotes will be the best quotes. And I think Charlie Casserly is just an old guy that talks to people and has been in the league for 25 years

and been on an NFL network forever and just ask a couple people questions. I really think it was pretty harmless. And I went on a ramp the other day on my YouTube channel, check it out, John Milikoff. I was always, and I think a lot of personnel people, because the big knock on Kyler Murray right now is he was terrible on the board. Well, a couple things on the board.

Kyler Murray plays in a pretty basic offense at Oklahoma, and he was a one-year starter. So I don't expect him to be Peyton Manning on the board. And to be honest with you, I don't really care. The only question I have for Kyler Murray is, does he have the capacity to figure it out eventually? And does he have the work ethic to really feel? you know, take that mental capacity once he starts learning how to watch film with pro coaching

and take it to the next level. If I feel comfortable with that, I don't care about my board what he does when I hand him a pen to the board. Because what am I paying my quarterback coach 500 grand for? What am I paying my offensive coordinator 1.5 million for? And what am I paying my coach anywhere from 5 to 10 million for to just to know the information? Why do coaches who always know the information way better than players. You know the one place, and I mean the one place, that there are players, I wouldn't say know it as well as the coaches, but as close to the coach's knowledge as any place in the country, and that's New England.

Why? Because their coaches are forced to coach. Whether the guy learns with boardwork, whether the guy learns with work, whether the guy learns with film work, whether the guy learns on the field, that is their job to take the information and give it to the players. And then to make sure the players know how to use that information on the field. That's the only thing that matters. I don't care how you learn.

And I think coaches get too caught up in that. Because once the season starts, they don't teach as much anymore. You know the one place to teach us? Well, actually I got two. And I know a lot of places that teach. But Belichick, big time teacher. You know the other guy that's a great teacher? And I can speak on this because I've had a front row seat.

Coach Reed, teaching is really important. and it'll teach you however he has to teach you but you will figure out the information if you can't learn from Andy or Belichick you can't learn now sometimes you get situations like if you can't learn from Hugh Jackson maybe it's Hugh Jackson

can't learn from Chip Kelly maybe it's Chip Kelly but coaches always love to fall back on he couldn't figure it out well what am I paying if I'm the owner or GM like what are we paying you all this money for I do not get it

I really don't and that's a constant in defense of Kyler Murray. This notion that because he's not good on the board, it's going to translate. I mean, he's 21, 22 years old. He's played two sports. He's never really focused on football for the first time this year. And he played in, let's call it what it is, a pretty basic look at me offense when it comes to looking at the coach. He changes to play at the line.

And the defense is in the conference suck. So, yeah, he's going to have to learn more once he starts playing on Sunday. Welcome to life. So I really didn't take that much of it and I just, it really bothers me when people freak out about anonymous sources, especially the media because they know exactly what they're doing.

They need those anonymous sources because that's where their best information comes. And if you're not asking the general manager, you're usually getting the truth. So don't let the media fool you on that one. You know what's funny is like the older you get, some sayings you got when you were younger,

really kind of resonate with you. Now, the most basic ones, like, you know, treat people well. It's something you cognitively think about the older you get. Like, am I treating my neighbor well enough? Was I just friendly enough to the guy at the store? Just basic things. I got yelled at forever about being on time, being on time. That's something that's just embedded in your head

if that's something that you get screamed at at a young age. You just feel, I think insecure might be the wrong word, uneasy. I just despise if I say I'm going to be somewhere at one. I'm sitting there twiddling my thumbs at 1250. It's the Tom Coughlin in you. But if you're around that growing up and it gets embedded in you. There are other sayings that to me, the older you get in situations you go through kind of stick out. One saying a wise, wise, wise man told me is the only one who cares about you is you.

Talking professionally. Obviously personally, your family, your brothers, your sisters, your wife, your kids. I'm talking professionally. And the older you get, the more deals you get and do, the more people you work with around, you realize how just selfish everyone is. And sometimes in life you got to be a little selfish. Usually the most successful people in business are a little selfish. Now you can balance it out with not being like known as the city or community asshole that will just screw over everyone.

But you know, I'm an aggressive. You think about yourself first. It's just an inherent reaction. And you realize the more, and in my business, I'm in the advertising business and I have some partnerships, you just realize, for the most part, I'm lucky. I've been involved in some pretty good partnerships. But I have friends that have started businesses or been a part of businesses. You hear some horror stories. And again, I always, you know, resort back to, the only person that cares about you is you. Antonio Brown, who's on the scorched earth campaign right now, probably jumped the shark on that.

I disagree with the way he's handled it. but you notice no one's really questioned him for the words he said necessarily about Big Ben. No one thinks he's lying. We all think Big Ben is kind of questionable in some of the things he does. That Big Ben is pretty selfish and definitely would never point the finger at himself. It's always at someone else, whether it's a coach, whether it's at a player. So people agree with Antonio, they just go, man, if you want out of there, which we can argue was the right move or the wrong move. But at the end of the day, Antonio Brown wants out.

So I will not hate on him And if you're listening to this When I'm recording this he hasn't been traded yet That I don't blame him Like that's what he wants It's what he wants Again Larry Fitzgerald Who I think at the Sloan conference

Was Basically said that I would not have handled that way That Antonio should You know Doesn't quite understand What he doesn't even know Like you've always had a Hall of Fame quarterback Like you've had it pretty good

Look at me I've played with a bunch of scrubs And it got me thinking like should Larry Fitzgerald who by the time he was like a second year guy in the league highest character guy in the NFL one of the smartest guys in the NFL most respected guy in the NFL

it'd be hard for Larry Fitzgerald to come off as a slap and I think a guy like him was so terrified his entire career of ever asking or demanding a trade because it would make him look bad and I think Larry hit the point probably midway through his career like Larry I think you would have got some credit if you would have pushed to move out of there

And we have the one example that really stands out in the last 20 years is Kevin Garnett. He, like Larry Fitzgerald, super high-level guy, did not want to look bad into manager. He was loyal. But the loyalty cost him they struggled to get out of the first round of the playoffs. Eventually, he was traded to Boston, won a championship, became a legend. Larry Fitzgerald, he got to the Super Bowl once, made the playoffs a couple times. The irony is he's known as the greatest playoff wide receiver ever. And he struggles to even get to the playoffs.

For the most part, he plays with scrubbed quarterbacks. Imagine if five or six years ago, Larry would have somehow got to Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady or Big Ben. He's already a first bout hall fan. He would have been a Jerry Rice Jr. It wouldn't have been, you know what, who's the second best wide receiver of all time?

Randy, T.O. But we would have talked about Larry Fitzgerald. He's going to the Hall of Fame. He's a greatest playoff wide receiver I've ever seen. He dominates. But for the most part, he plays with nobody. and if he would have been a little selfish, again, you don't have to go Antonio Brown. You can be selfish when it comes to business, when it comes to moving from a team, and do it the right way.

You know, you don't have to do it like Anthony Davis. You can, Kyrie a couple years ago. Told the Cleveland, like, I don't want to play here anymore. LeBron's going to leave. This is not the place for me. It didn't get too content. He was just traded. A couple other names I wrote down, just off the top of my head.

Joe Thomas. talk about one of the truly great players of recent memory. His career is basically irrelevant. No one remembers any moments of his career. Now, for the most part, we don't with offensive linemen, but he definitely him. He didn't play in any games than ever we want. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions,

the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped. up in the chase, that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming.

Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Todd Ramos. I'm Tom Bowdo. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back.

The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcast presents soccer moms.

So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider.

This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Well, they had a bogo. Well, then you got them. Do you want a white collar or something?

Here, just a second. Oh, what are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. Come on. I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious.

Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky. I'm not an alcoholic. You are. I'm lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Unless you were a Browns fan. Never made the playoffs. Played it in irrelevant games. Imagine if Joe Thomas, who it feels like Kevin Garnett and Larry Fitzgerald, was so loyal. Refused to be like, hey, trade me to Seattle four or five years ago.

Or remember when Peyton Manning won. Trade me to Peyton Manning. You're not a bad guy if you do that. You're not a bad human if you're a little selfish at times. Now, it's a slippery slope, and you can jump the shark fast. You know, Terrell Owens, Antonio Brown, we've seen some crazy ones. But I do think you can do it professionally. And once you have equity as a player, like Joe Thomas, you're really smart and you're really good.

I think you're a good guy. Larry Fitzgerald, you're a really high-level guy. Calvin Johnson, seem like a really high-level guy. No one's going to hate on you if you demand a trait. I think with Antonio Brown is like Bro, you've been late You know, you've had some issues He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt

Just like young Randy Moss when he came to the Raiders It was like, what's going on here? He didn't really get, Terrell Owens All those guys have the benefit of the doubt If you have the benefit of the doubt And the equity built up with sports fans I do think they'll support you if you ask for a trade When you're on a bad team

Like I don't want to be here anymore I want to win and I think that Larry Fitzgerald, I get what he was saying. I somewhat agree with him that Antonio should have handled differently. He does know how good he has it. But Larry, if you would have done an Antonio Brown move, you would be, your career might look dramatically different in a good way. This episode is brought to you by Royal Caribbean, an award-winning global cruise line.

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Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to Shopify.com slash J-O-H-N, Shopify.com slash John. Good thing about doing a podcast, unlike a radio show, that if something happens, I recorded this over the day on Thursday, did a couple things early, been recording this part after some news broke, and it hit me. I crushed John Elway for trading for Joe Flacco. It made no sense.

Well, news just broke. He traded Case Keenham to the Redskins. It sucks to be a Redskins fan. If you're listening and you live in Washington, I feel. for you. Case Keenham, Colt McCoy, man, life sucks. But now John Elway, to me, this is what, when I saw that trade, and I thought that this guy, John, can now go trade for Josh Rosen. Give a second and have him play behind Flackle. This is what I thought about. You know, Lloyd, just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this.

And totally redeem yourself. I mean, I really think that if John Elway over the next week trades, I would trade my second round pick. You can go get Josh Rosen and have a young quarterback behind Joe Flacco and kind of let him get his sea legs back under him. And then you still have three years under contract next year after you got Flacco. How does that not make sense? I mean, come on, guys. Is this not the perfect move? That's just basically my take, that John Elway now has no excuse.

to not go get Josh Rosen. He didn't take him last year, which I don't blame him. He got Bradley Chubb, who's big-time player. You got Bradley Chubb, and now you can go get a first-round quarterback with a second-round pick. Who's already been, the majority of his contract's already been paid? And you know what? If it doesn't work out, it's not that big of a deal.

It won't cripple you. So you basically gave up, what, a fourth and a second for Flacco and Rosen. You got your immediate and you got your future. I will hate the Joe Flacco trade way. way less if by the end of free agency or early in the draft, Josh Rosen is a Denver Bronco. To me, it makes too much sense to happen now. If I'm Josh Rosen to, I'd want to go to Denver. I'd rather play in Denver than the mess than Washington or Miami that consistently just does nothing.

Or, you know, to be Philip Rivers backup or whatever, because I could play. Hell, I, Flagler could get hurt. He did get hurt last year. or Flacco could just not be that good. I could just beat them out in middle of the season if we're not that good. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I really hope that Josh Rosen joins Joe Flacco. And I'll apologize a little bit to Elway if that was his big picture plan.

Now you probably didn't know that was happening when he traded for Flacco. But if he ends up with Rosen and Flacco as a quarterback room, it's not terrible. Okay, let's go Middlecoff mailbag. At John Middlecough, my Instagram handle. easiest way to get a hold of me. Okay. I'm a huge Tampa Bay fan coming from Finland. What are realistic expectations for the bucks this season?

If I remember correctly, Bruce Ariens won 10 games in his first year as the Cardinals head coach and they missed the playoffs that year because Seattle and and obviously Harbaugh and the 49ers were really good. But he turned them around fast. Now they got Carson Palmer. So that helped a lot.

And then they hit on some draft picks. You know, Patrick Peterson was there. They hit on Honey Badger, so they kind of hit the ground running. Could the Tampa Bay Bucks win 10 games next year? If James is a pro bowler, they got Mike Evans, they drafted Ronald Johnson, who I liked a lot out of USC, that has to do something. He had a terrible rookie year.

Have some players on defense. They have a really good defensive coaching staff. The whole coaching staff. It's all the guys. that he won with in Arizona. So he has a playoff level coaching staff. Can Aryans get through to James? That to me is the question.

If James can play at a Pro Bowl level, 35 touchdowns, 12 picks, you know, I can't have the 1820 picks, just the disaster consistency, inconsistency that he has. So it rides on him. Now, is there any coach that you'd rather have to attempt to fix James? I've said all along, no.

Say 9 and 7, I think is somewhat realistic. Bruce Ariens is that good of a coach, his coaching staff's that good. And James has shown some ability. You know, I thought last year, once James kind of got things together, it was like, damn, this guy has something. Now, he throws up some hollow stats,

but Bruce, the standards are going to get raised about tenfold, which should benefit everyone in the organization. I think 9 and 7 is realistic. If you have the Saints win the division, the Panthers are going to fall off a cliff. You have the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. What team am I missing? So I got the Saints, the Bucks, oh, the Falcons.

Yeah, maybe 8 and 8. It's a little more. The Falcons are going to, should come back strong. Hey, John, I was hoping you could explain the thinking behind the Cardinals, potentially pretending to be interested in drafting, Kyler. Wouldn't this mean they are not open to trading down? I think the thinking in faking everyone out like you like them, but not trading Rosen, so

like you're just figuring out your options would be to gain leverage if you know someone behind you is in love with them. And as everyone at the Combine said, John Gruden is in love with them. So if you could convince Gruden to give you swap one and four and maybe give you a round pick if you were going to take if you were okay taking Josh Allen or whatever all along and you were cool keeping Josh Rosen and you get an extra first round pick out of it it's not that nuts I to me is that not if somehow you could get convinced Gruden to give you like four so I'll give you one you give me four you give me 24 and you give me like next year's I don't know next

year a good, you know, a second rounder. They don't have a second rounder next year because they did a pick swap. But you know what I'm saying. So I think it's to get a haul. And I've said all along, if Josh Rosen doesn't get traded before the draft, I think we'll have a pretty good idea that he's not going to be on the Cardinals, but not a 100% idea because they always could trade him on draft day. But I would say just the way the business is done, you probably trade him right when free agency starts, but if you're just keeping your options open, maybe you don't. I don't know. I've been thinking a lot about that.

The more information you keep yourself, the more you keep everyone guessing. But the key, if you are going to take Kyler Murray and you want to get people to bid and just see what you could get for them, is to make people think that you love Kyler Murray. Because if you love Kyler Murray, you're going to have to be talked out of Kyler Murray. But you could always convince people like, I still like, I still like, Rosen, so if you can convince me to trade you, Kyler Murray, aka the number one pick, we'd listen, but you're going to have to blow me away. You're going to, you know, we often say, like, in the NBA, to get a superstar, you got to pay,

you know, usually superstars get traded for like 70 cents on the dollar. Well, in this situation with the Cardinals, if I know Gruden likes them, you got to give me like a buck 25 on the dollar. You got to overpay, because someone's like Middlecock, you got to give one, you got to pick pick 24 and pick 35 well yeah if I if I love them you better blow my socks off because I'm going to take them

and then I'll just trade Rosen on the day of the draft to Elway or Miami or wherever I can find a place for Rosen that's the least of my worries but you got to give me an offer to make me consider keeping them and consider giving you the number one pick

which I know in theory I know you want if Gruden wanted a good receiver why didn't he keep Cooper instead of now reportedly going after a headache like Antonio Brown? You teach me a lot about football. Thanks. I think that Amari hadn't played that well, for the most part, with the Raiders the last couple years. Him and Derek were not on the same page.

I don't think Amari is Mr. Practice super hard. I don't think he's Mr. Practice not hard, but I don't think if you go to a practice, you just really feel Amari. And that's the little type stuff that drives Gruden nuts. And then there was a big picture. His agent was Khalil Max agent, who had just had the crazy kind of holdout. Now, Amari's not even close to as good as Khalil. So his fifth year option is this year.

I think it pays around $14 million. Was he going to hold out? I would have been shocked if you held out. But I think it's more just for whatever reason. You know, Gruden's old school. He just goes, Antonio Brown's better. And he's under contract. and I have money to spend.

I like Antonio Brown more than Amari Cooper. I would not do it. Amari's 24 with an enormous upside. Yeah, he's got some flaws. But as you saw in Dallas, he's pretty damn good. And as you saw early on his career in Oakland, he's pretty damn good. He was drafted four for a reason.

No one ever said it was weird when he went four. People said, wow, what a pick. I think just him and Derek not get along might be strong, but, you know, I don't know. I just don't think it was working. If you're John Robinson, the GM for the Tennessee Titans, what is your move at 19 in the draft? Do you maybe even try to draft a bigger name

opposed to a bigger need with the draft being in Nashville? Let me stop right there. John Robinson, knowing him a little bit, 1,000% will not give one shit that the draft is in Nashville. But I know what you're saying. Also, is Tennessee teaching, reaching, trying to trade for AB?

Let's start with the latter. I don't think they're reaching, try to trade for AB. To me, they make a lot of sense. If you could get Antonio Brown, they're receiving course terrible. You got Delaney coming back. They're running backs, actually.

Derek Henry looked pretty good down the stretch. Dionne Lewis is a good player. What if you did this? What if you can trade your second for Antonio Brown? Your defense is pretty damn good. Your defense is really good. Your front's good. Linebackers are good.

DBs are solid. Actually, not great, but, you know, whatever. Most teams don't have good defensive backs. What if you traded your second rounder for Antonio Brown, and what if at 19 you took the best receiver on the board, or the best tight end on the board, you get a young tied end?

And you just put a ton of weapons around Marriota. So then you know, you're either, because your defense is already a playoff level defense, you're kind of equipped to win if Mariotas humming, and then if Mariotta's not the guy, you just move off them next year, you don't extend this contract. I think they go, I think they go explosive playmaker at 19.

And I do not, like I said, I don't think at all being a natural. He's old school Bill Belichick like. Hi John, love the pod. I'm just wondering why you don't like Josh Allen. I get the accuracy concerns, but I think he proved a lot this season for the Bill's fans to believe he's our franchise quarterback. His completion percentage was skewed because he didn't have any receivers who could catch the ball. Again, I do not not like Josh Allen.

Actually, since he's been in the NFL, I'm actually kind of a fan. I just am against guys that are that inaccurate in college ever being able to function in the NFL. Now, he showed a lot of signs, some big time flashplays. But he did that in college. Some of the people that I trust the most in the NFL tried to convince me that I was being too harsh on him last year leading up to the draft. They're like, he's better than you think.

He's actually not bad. And the more I followed on Instagram, I followed Jordan Palmer. And Jordan Palmer trains these guys. And last year he traded Sam Donald and he trade Josh Allen. Well, this year he's training Stidham, the Tyson Jackson, or I think whatever his name is, the kid from Buffalo, the big guy, Drew Locke and some other guys. And Josh Allen and Sam Donald are back together. And I just see these guys a lot together on Instagram.

They're kind of becoming BFFs. And I kind of like that. I just like those two guys. So don't get me wrong. I think Josh Allen, pristine character seems like a high-level guy. rooting for him. I just think at the end of the day, he has a fundamental flaw, terribly inaccurate. And that usually is a fatal flaw in the league. Now, if he's so smart and he can read defenses and he can just incrementally improve his accuracy. And like you said, they drafts some receivers

this year, go sign a receiver, maybe he'll shut me up. And I'm rooting for him to shut me up. I want to be wrong on this now. Because I've followed enough and seen enough. I like this kid. I like him a lot. And now that these boys are Sam, Donald, I like that little parent. Kind of ironic because they're in the same division. But it's not quite like basketball because two quarterbacks on opposite teams can be good friends. It's not like you play each other. You're never on the field

at the same time. So I think that's kind of a cool friendship to watch. John, we need to get a checkmark by your name. Yes, it's stupid. But people care about this shit. Yeah, I'm new to the Instagram. I'm not new to Instagram, but new and being aggressive on it. what would take during the remainder of KD and LeBron James's career for the majority of the media professionals to actually be convinced that Katie is higher than LeBron James on the all-time greatest list?

I watched LeBron James pass Michael Jordan the other day on the all-time scoring list and it was one of the most bizarre things I've ever seen in my life. I don't remember a player in sports that ever felt, that was really good in the prime of his career, that ever felt like he gave a shit less about the team he was. was on than LeBron and the Lakers, especially when you factor in how famous and big of a deal the Lakers are, just in general. It is pretty wild. If Kevin Durant goes to New York and wins a couple titles, the conversation 100% would change. I doubt that happens. Kevin's a little

soft. I haven't had a front row seat watching him, but he is, he's an incredible player. LeBron has officially jumped to shark. LeBron tweeted yesterday how excited he was for a moment before the game about passing Michael Jordan after the team is in absolute shambles and then they got boat raced by the Denver Nuggets. I think LeBron's kind of lost right now. Kind of sucks.

Massive Packers fan from Canabara Australia. Never heard of it, but that sounds like a cool place. Question for the pot. Belichick has Brady. Belichick has the quarterback, yeah, with the biggest chip on his shoulder that he has been able to carry that

throughout his career as the ultimate motivation. If the Patriots were able to trade for Rosen, Could you see this as a similar situation? Rosen said in his first press conference that nine teams made a huge mistake today. So he's already has a chip there. What sort of trade do you think would it take for this to happen? I think they got two second round pick, so I think a second round pick gets it done. I thought where you're going with the question, would it piss Brady off?

Now, I think when you're 41, you just kind of have to deal with them bringing in quarterbacks. I mean, they brought in his replacement five years ago in Jimmy Garoppel and he outlasted Now would he outlast Josh Rosen who's brought in no? Yeah, I think the Patriot organization would be good for Josh. I think it's a no-brainer for the Patriots. I think it's a no-brainer, like I said earlier in the podcast, for the Denver Broncos. But the key is going to be, if they want Kyler Murray, and we're going to know, well, definitely going to know on draft day, but we might have an idea in the next couple weeks

if they trade Josh Rosen. If he really is on the block, which it sure as hell feels like, the Patriots should just be all over. I think it would be the best thing that ever happened to Josh's career to get to play with Tom, to get to be with New England, to get to watch Josh McDaniels and Bill Belichick will operate every day to go from the Cardinals that had the worst offensive line in the league, some of the worst skill guys in the league, one of the worst defense in the league, to go to the Patriots. Hey John, lately the trend in the NFL has been to get a quarterback, then build around him,

specifically, pick a coach who is an offensive-minded guy, and he is the mentor to the quarterback. It would appear that the Cardinals are doing the opposite. They hired Cliff, and now appear to be getting a quarterback suited to his offense. Top 10 quarterback be damned. Oh, okay, I see what you're saying, because they're getting rid of Rosen. Well, but if they do it with Kyler, they're falling in the same mold. Is this set up to fail, or will teams begin to do this even if it's remotely successful? So you're basically saying, I may be reading this wrong,

that because Kingsbury didn't have anything to do with Rosen, they want to have him pick the specific quarterback. I really think it's as simple as, Kyler's a pretty unique quarterback, and they didn't give up that much for Josh Rosen. If they had given up two ones to trade up for Josh Rosen, then I think that this would not be happening. But they gave up a third-round pick,

a middle-of-the-road-third-round pick. So it's pretty easy to justify in your head, especially if you trade him in the Patriots for a second round pick. You go, what we traded for him, even though we used the first rounder last year, we actually got a decent return back. We lost big picture of the deal. But it wasn't a major loss. And if Kyler Murray is, I don't know, Michael Vick, a smaller Michael Vick,

we're in pretty good shape. I think this is just a really, really unique situation. I don't know if the Arizona. Cardinals mold for what they're doing with Cliff Kingsbury. Now, hiring an offensive coach, that won't change. But trading Josh Rosen a year after, you know, being in bed with them basically, yeah, I think it's just a, it's more of an outlier situation that it'll, that's something that's going to come the norm.

Uh, mailback question. With NFL free agency upon us and the draft closing in, can you explain the compensatory draft pick process? I believe a lot of fans have heard about compics, but few understand. I'm not a cap guy, but I'll give you the Cliff Note version how I understand it. If I have a free agent, let's say he's, you know, a right tackle, and another team signs him, and that team makes him the highest right tackle in the NFL, if I replace that player or just a player of the same value, let's say I sign another position for the same contract or in similar money, they cancel each other out.

but if I let four or five players walk and a couple of them sign huge deals and I do not sign any free agents well then I'm going to get really good comp picks they start in third round so I think it's based on who you sign and what you let walk and how close it is to being even

if you obviously if you sign a lot of players and don't let anyone walk you won't get any if you let a couple players go but they don't make that money but you also sign players then you don't get picks So I think it's all dependent on who you sign, how much money you sign them for, who you let go, how much money they signed for, and how it balances out. The Baltimore Ravens typically don't sign many free agents, but every year they have multiple guys that sign big deals away from their team. That's why they always end up with multiple third round picks.

Like last year, the Patriots let Malcolm Butler walk. well, who'd they replace them with? They already had players on the roster. They signed McCordy's brother, but maybe they traded for him. They didn't really sign anybody. They got Trent Brown, but they traded for him. That's why they get comp picked pretty high because they had a big free agent leave,

and they didn't balance it out. So I think it's all about balance on the books. So it's trying to, don't quote me on this, and maybe a cap guy would think differently, but it's like, it's trying to keep an equal playing field for teams that lose free agents.

Even if you can't afford to keep them. I think it just helps competitive balance, which is cool. And it's just a good thing for the league. But it's also they don't start too high. Third round, to me, feels about right. Appreciate everyone listening. Have a good weekend.

Keep the questions coming. Middlecoff mailbag at John Middilcoff, slide up in those DMs. Enjoy the weekend. We got free agency starting next week. So we'll be coming out guns ablazing. Adi Ose. See you. Bees. If you love to be remembered as the person who gives the best birthday gifts,

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That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app,

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What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref. My mom wants you to wave at her.

What? My quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Red. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

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