The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Middlekauff – 3 & Out – Rodgers looks worse than McCarthy; AAF biz disaster; Nick Bosa pre-draft scouting report

Episode Date: April 5, 2019

In this episode, Middlekauff looks at the  Mike McCarthy bombshell story, why Aaron Rodgers comes out looking worse than his former coach, the harsh realities of the AAF folding, the scouting report on Nick Bosa and answers listener questions in Middlekauff's Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to www.theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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eBay motors.com. Let's ride. What's going on, everybody? John Middlecough, three and out podcast. We're back again, baby. Friday, countdown for the draft is on like Donkey Kong, right around the corner. You know, it kind of looked like, like, what was I going to talk about today? And then we got as good of an article.

I live for these articles in a day and age when, you know, journalists are terrible. to write anything that's going to piss off their sources. You don't get stuff like this. Just fantastic on Rogers, McCarthy, the Packers. Have a bunch of thoughts on that. Have several opinions on the AAF that you won't hear anywhere else. Many in the media are taking a certain stand, and I couldn't disagree more with most of the articles and the takes.

I'm reading on social media on the AF. And then for the athletic, I wrote about Nick Bosa and just how good he is. And I'm just going to kind of dive in on just some things I thought on Nick Bosa. And then like always, Middlecoff mailbag at John Middlecoff is my Instagram handle. You slide up in those DMs. And then I'll answer your question right here on the podcast. At John Middlecoff, my Instagram handle, my Twitter handle. Easiest way to get a hold of me, tweet at me.

but for this exercise, and like we do every day, you just fire up in my DMs at John Middlecock, Instagram. Okay, there are several elements to this Packer thing I kind of want to unfold. And I would highly recommend just Google Aaron Rogers Bleacher Report, Mike McCarthy. It's just a great Bleacher Report article. Inside sources, players going on record. And let's start with Aaron Rogers. Because I thought he came out looking the worst.

Mike McCarthy kind of got eviscerated in this thing too, but he's fired. Like Mike McCarthy lost his job. And I think the conventional wisdom around football fans is Mike McCarthy was a little overrated and not a great coach. I thought Aaron Rogers came out looking terrible. And I'm going to start off with this. Just this kind of elephant in the room about Aaron Rogers, listen, I know countless people that have had knocked down dragouts if you're a guy with your father, if you're a woman with your mother. and everyone's siblings it can be touchy over money

situations siblings don't talk all sorts of relationships that's not necessarily to me unnormal or something you don't see in just people's relationship that you know but typically in my experience of just people I know the whoever the opposite of

like if you're a guy your mother or if you're a girl your father usually you have a decent relationship now if Aaron Rogers parents extorted to them or something I get it, but it doesn't seem like that was the case. He just doesn't talk to his mom. I got news for you. I got a massive red flag on Aaron Rogers for just not talking to his mother. Feels kind of like a scumbag, to be honest with you. Kind of like a D-bag move. There's no way to really get around

that. Here's the other thing. Aaron Rogers, and it came up in this article all the time, like, does Alex Smith own a real estate in Aaron Rogers' head? Why does he keep worrying about Alex Smith and him getting chosen over him in 2005. Like Brady used that as motivation, used that as motivation. Then eventually he just started winning MVP's, started winning Super Bowls. Brady doesn't talk about the draft that much anymore. Who cares? Like Aaron, you won.

You became the highest paid player in the league. You won a Super Bowl. You've won MVP. Maybe MVP's. It feels like he's won MVP's. Alex Smith had a solid career. His leg fell off this year. But he's like one of the nice guys in the NFL.

Who cares? This notion also like Mike McCarthy wanted Alex Smith over Aaron Rogers. I got news for you, Aaron. Mike McCarthy was the offensive coordinator on that 49er team. He wasn't the GM. He was not the head coach. He was not the decision maker. So even if he liked Alex Smith, do you know what?

It turned out. Once he got around you, he liked you more than everyone. He was part of getting rid of Brett Farve with Ted Thompson. He coached you. He won a lot with you. You're holding on to this baggage. I know Colin always had this famous. I think he wrote it in his book.

You say it all the time. I remember writing it down because it's just, it's true. And I can be petty and hold on to stuff. But holding a grudge is like chain smoking hate. And Rogers has these deep demons. And most of our demons, let's call it what it is, stem from our childhood. But I got Rogers just kind of red flag. One, he just doesn't talk to his mother.

And again, from what I know, she didn't try to do anything criminally wrong to him. I'm sorry, bro, get over it. And holding some grudge on Mike McCarthy, we all have people in our life that we don't like, for whatever reason. And clearly, if you read this article, Aaron Rogers did not view Mike McCarthy on the same intellectual level. To me, that's understandable. But it felt like one elephant in the room of their relationship

always stem back to Alex Smith. Like, let it go, bro. It's over. Here's another thing. And I say this about LeBron all the time. I think it holds true for Aaron Rogers. If you are in charge of people in a company, if you're the quarterback of an NFL team, if you're the superstar NBA player, like part of your job, you have to get along with everyone.

That includes people your age that you may relate to. If you're in your mid-30s, you're married, you have serious relationships, you don't go out as much. You do different things than people in their early 20s. But when you're the quarterback, you still have to make an effort to get along with those people in their early 20s. I think the best ever at this is Tom Brady. He's 40 years old and he gets along with everyone. It doesn't mean he's taking them out for beers every week or hanging out with them all the time,

but he clearly makes an effort to get to know them. He's basically like their boss, you know, but he needs them to like him and respect him and be able to work with him. Look at LeBron. Refused to acquiesce or get along with any young players. Well, they're missing the playoffs and they've had a disastrous season. Aaron Rogers is telling young wide receivers

Part of this article was the play call would come in And they'd want him I think the example was they wanted the guy to run a post And it was one of the young receivers And Aaron looks at him I want you to run a flag And the guy's like Think of what a shitty position Rogers is putting a young player in And one of the things this article talks about

That when he gets down upon you when you're a young player You're dead to him So you kind of got to listen to him. And then he runs the route that Aaron tells him to run. Aaron, I don't know if the play breaks down, doesn't come to him. The player comes off to the sideline and the offensive coordinator, the wide receiver coach is lighting the guy up. Like, what are you doing running the wrong play?

It's like Rogers is sabotaging his own team. Now, he's so goddamn good that they've been able to overcome for a long period of time this weird dysfunction. But to me, one of the things, in this article says Mike McCarthy tried to relate to him on a human level, invited him over to his house, tried to tell him like, hey man, you probably should reach out to your parents, like giving him pretty solid wisdom. Like, you're going to regret this as you get older, unless you're just a royal asshole and don't care, which let's call it what it is. It kind of feels that way.

Again, I thought Aaron Rogers came off looking beyond terrible. There was a story that Mike McCarthy didn't consistently attend offensive installation meetings or it was either like a, yeah, I think it was offensive installation meetings and the rumor had it

that one of the massage therapists that worked on the players he liked to get massages too and would sneak the, I think it was a girl, up to his office to get a massage. Not like a Robert Kraft massage, but like a legitimate massage.

And then there was part of the article where one of the players were like, yeah, we never actually saw them. It was just like this theory that was going around, but we never saw the massage therapist with Mike. So people thought that maybe Aaron made

the whole thing up. Now he's so good, like I said, that they had no choice but to pay him all that money last year. He had earned it. But man, when you pay a guy and you empower a guy because that's what money does, when you give a guy that type money,

he's the most powerful person in your organization. And this is an organization. that doesn't have an owner. So he's more powerful than the head coach. He's more powerful than the general manager. He's more powerful than Mark Murphy. He's the most powerful guy in the building. Now, if you make Tom Brady that guy or Peyton Manning that guy,

someone that just can galvanize the group, it's not that big of a deal. Seth Curry, that guy, it works. When you do it for, like, LeBron and he's just got his own shit going on, he could ruin your team. Did Rogers just torpedo a season last year? And really the last couple years because they haven't made the playoffs? Now, I do think this also reflects Mike McCarthy. Is he the most dynamic coach in the league?

No. But the article in some of the players, which felt like they had an Aaron Rogers agenda, they made him seem like he's Jim Tom Sula. I've watched Mike McCarthy coach for last 10 years. He had his flaws, and one of the things they eviscerated him for, and rightfully so, the NFC Championship game against Seattle several years ago, They kick field goals multiple times at the one-yard line. Like, that's on Mike McCarthy.

You can't coach like a wuss. Like, go for it, buddy. This is all or nothing. And he deserved to get fired. Because I also saw a quote from Mike McCarthy yesterday. I think he sat down with an ESPN.com reporter. And I took this the wrong way. McCarthy said that he was like,

I don't know if he used the word blindsided or the Packers handled it incorrectly firing them. Like, I'm sorry, Mike. The team was terrible. You just lost to the Arizona Cardinals that had a one-and-done coach who had the worst offensive line in the league, whose team was just in shambles, and they beat you at home. Like, you shouldn't have been surprised.

It was time for you to go. So did they handle it poorly? What do you want them to do? Like, send you some roses before they tell you you're fired? being fired sucks. It's happened to me actually multiple times. I'd argue, hey Mike, both times I got and I got fired is the best thing that ever happened to me. You know, some industries, and I always was insecure about this, you know, people that get fired, that means like they're late to work or they're shitty workers. No, in certain businesses, like when I worked in the NFL, we had a regime

change. I argued with Chip Kelly. Kind of made my own bet on that. With the radio station, I hated my boss. I refused to listen to. to him because he's the biggest clown I'd ever been around. Both things led me to greener pastures. Life has been better since. Like, Mike, clearly you didn't want to be there. You didn't like working with this guy that you knew didn't like you. You should have wanted to get out of there.

And some of it is, you know, that feeling that you just, it's all you know, and you're so emotionally invested. But now that he's taken a step back and he's been away from the team for a while, I'd say, hey Mike, and maybe he's realizing, like, it's going to be hard for me to get another job. And this doesn't, you know, kind of shed great light on him. Maybe this makes it more challenging. He's an older, more rigid coach. Like, you had the chance, Mike, to be a more dynamic play caller.

You had one of the great quarterback talents forever. And you showed us what you had. And it was, for the most part, pretty basic crap. You know, it was never like, oh, look what Mike's doing. Like, that's on you, buddy. So I think Aaron's the big loser here because, one, back to what I said, you don't talk to your mom, you're just kind of a scumbag. Again, unless she tried to steal money from you or something.

McCarthy, we already thought poorly about McCarthy. The Packers organization doesn't have great checks and balances. There is not an owner. There is really like the people own the team. Yet this Mark Murphy guy has all this power and what is he really, like this administrator. But he's not really cutting the check. Just kind of a weird situation. And I said from the jump, I watched the Green Bay Packers

press conference when they hired Matt LaFourre. I thought it was a disaster. I thought he looked young. I mean, he is young, but inexperienced, over his head, nervous. It was just a weird situation. It felt like the Mark Murphy show. Huge ego. He talked for like 15 minutes before he even gave the mic to the coach.

I think this guy has little than no chance of figuring out an egomaniac quarterback. who just made $80 million in six months. I remember Schefter tweeted part of the contract, they paid him $80 million in six months. I just don't see it working. Their team is not really that talented. Their division now is really good.

The Bears are good. The Vikings are bouncing back. The lions are feisty, crappy team. I'm just out on the Packers. I'm kind of out on Aaron Rogers. I just, you know, I will not dispute his greatness, but I don't know. Is he a little overhyped when you read stuff like this?

He's just not a great guy. He's not a great team player, not a great teammate, just a great talent who's been able to overcome this his entire career. And just, I love these type of articles. I tweeted earlier, I live for these type articles. We don't get these enough. Like, this is what we want. We want to know what's really going on.

We want to know how the sausage is made in the NFL. And I hear story, I'm not a reporter. I get some juice like this every once while, but I'm not really allowed to share it. I don't have this, that information was just fantastic because he went in there with a machine gun. It wasn't like, there was no agenda. It was taking everyone out. And they deserved it.

You act like this. You're this petty. You deserve it if you're Rogers. If you're McCarthy and you make stupid comments about how you were kind of shocked when you were fired. Shocked when you were fired, Mike. Your team's well under 500. You hadn't made the playoffs the year before. You have a franchise quarterback.

You just lost the Cardinals. Think you should get an extension? Are we living in the same world? What a disaster the Packers are. Let me tell you about my friends at Robin Hood. Robin Hood is an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks, ETFs, options, and cryptos all commission free. Other brokerages charge you up to $10 for every trade.

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That's M-I-D-D-L-E-K-A-U-F dot Robinhood.com. Okay, let's get into the A-A-F. Because I have some thoughts on the A-A-F that I haven't heard anywhere else. I've only seen consistent takes from the media who's very anti-big business, and they're crushing this. Dundon guy, this guy from the NHL that invested all this money.

I don't blame him. I really don't blame him at all. From what I've heard is he actually came into the deal with good intentions. And then he realized, you know, after three or four weeks, this business plan is a disaster. I blame, I don't know if you guys have seen, and if you haven't, go to Netflix and go to Hulu and watch the Fire Festival documentaries. I blame Billy McFarland Jr., aka Charlie Ebersoll. This was his vision and this was his plan. He happens to be the son of one of the most famous television execs ever, Dick Ebersoll.

So when you say Ebersoll, the name, it got him a lot of juice. Turns out he's kind of a clown. Turns out he couldn't figure out a way to run this business and rushed into something that he had no business operating. because they got two weeks into the season and had to get someone to give them a lot of money. Not like a million dollar investment. Like $200 million investment.

This guy that Tom Dundon that owns, I think, the Carolina Hurricanes. Well, I got news for you. We've all learned in any business deal, if you make a desperate deal, that is typically a bad deal because you are not doing a deal. You're doing a deal out of desperation. You have zero leverage when you're desperate. And the moment you give up all this control, you no longer control anything.

So Dundon could do whatever he wanted. He didn't come in with the same vision as Charlie Ebersoll had. And unlike Billy McFarland and the Fire Festival, who legitimately, I think, tried to scam people. I don't think Charlie Ebersol was trying to scam anyone. But I do think because of his name, and I learned a long time ago, a lot of people in business like using OPM, other people's money. Sometimes because they don't have money. themselves also sometimes because they don't want to invest their own money so if something goes belly

up it ain't on them charlie ebersoll is kind of getting a free pass right now and what makes me nervous about the way this is being covered is i think like the progressive media a lot of times they don't understand business slash are they too connected here to the ever saw family you know business i don't know but it's been making me a little uncomfortable he deserves to get destroyed for this He created this thing. He got all these people signed up, and they got two weeks in, they didn't have any money. Like, maybe wait a year.

That's why the XFL, the guy running the XFL, is the guy funding the XFL. The guy running the AAF didn't have any cash. It's why I don't blame Bill Pollian really that much, because Bill Pollian is not a money guy. He's a football guy. And when you look at the AAF, they actually had a lot of good football guys.

Good friend Phil Savage, Running was a jam of a team Spurrier, New Heisel, like they had legitimate coaches and executives in the league. The football wasn't a problem. It was the league's leadership. They had a guy that was so far over his skis that we just assumed knew what he was talking about

because of his last name. We heard that before. And it turns out the guy was incapable, incompetent, and very Billy McFarland-like. And all I'm reading are these think pieces on Twitter about, oh, Dundon's a scumbag, Dundins a scumbag. He pulled his money out.

The league was a disaster. The league wasn't his idea. He was going to keep it afloat. If it wasn't for him, the league would have died two months ago. It was dead after week two. He saved it. He finally just pulled the plug. He said, I'm out.

I'm not doing it anymore. I'm sorry, this is on Charlie Ebersoll. And I saw someone say yesterday, Robert Clemco from Monday morning quarterback, And a lot of people are tweeting about this. I can't believe because of these players, like, I've been involved in a business that went belly up. Or I got into a business deal where the money, people are like, I can't believe they're not paying for their flights home. There is no more money.

Where do people think the money comes from? If your number one investor yanks all of this cash, there is no more money. So, of course they're not paying for their flights home. There isn't some savings account with a bunch of cash. It's over. They're at zero. They were already in the red before this guy showed up. And as someone, a guy I know that's in the loop,

text me that said, Tom Dundan wanted to see this thing through. And then he started seeing the financials. The whole thing was a disaster. I had a buddy in the NFL that said he went to visit some of these teams. And he stayed, I don't know if it was Memphis or San Antonio or something. And he goes to stay the night because he's going to fly back to a city the next day. And he's to stay in like a Marriott.

That was pretty nice. He said all the players were in the Marriott. He's like, why aren't they? staying in a shittier hotel. They were just wasting money. So again, Billy McFarland Jr., aka Charlie Ebersoll, is the guy to be blamed. He deserves to get destroyed. I also have another take for you. If you told me at 22, 23 years old, the majority of these players are not going to play in the NFL, and they never were. They got $50,000 for 10 weeks to get an experience where they got free publicity where they got the NFL to see him. I saw some, I think, PFT,

he wrote that the CFL is interested in a lot of these guys now. So it gave them an opportunity that they did not have. And then they learned a lesson that we all learn in business. Anyone that runs a small business, involved in a small business, in any sort of business, know sometimes things go the wrong way. And the best learning experience from any successful person I've ever met will tell you the thing they learned the most from are failures. These young men would have paid for this experience in 20 years.

It's going to be so valuable to them. but they actually got paid for the failure. They got $50,000 for this disaster. It's got to be a good thing, big picture. This is a positive thing, big picture for a player to be involved in. Why? Because they were going to start and enter the real world in the very near future. Most of them did not have potential NFL futures.

This was about just kind of living out a dream. They got paid 50 grand for 10 weeks. I got news for you. You're not getting much compassion with the average American guy. You're minor league football paying you that much. Like, that's not bad. And they actually got that cash. And then the failure, yeah, it sucks.

But also, hey, welcome to life. Sometimes things don't go as planned. I got news for you also. Sometimes when things don't go as planned, you usually never get any money. You guys actually got paid for this. So a lot of these guys, if they become successful, they'll look back.

You know, the AAS experience really benefited me. Really helped me look at things under a different light. Again, you won't see one person. in the sports media talk like that. Maybe they don't teach you that in journalism school. I don't know. I went to business school. You know, I do business for myself.

I sell my own ads. Luckily, I have different expertise than a lot of people in the media. Because I've looked at the takes that I've seen on social media about the AAF as borderline laughable. And disingenuous, naive, a combination of them both.

But I'm telling you, the plane flights, How's the plane flights even a story? There is no more money. The money is gone. And you can look at it all you want. The players got screwed over. Yeah, they knew what they signed up for.

We didn't sign up for, this isn't the NFL here. This wasn't some league that was just, they were desperate for an investor after week two. So no money for the plane flights, no shit. No more cash. But to think that a positive can't be taken out of this disaster, is just, it's wrong. If anything, this is going to serve a lot of these guys big picture

and help them for their future successes. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. It's proven over and over and over and over again. Most people that are successful go through some terrible failures. That's life. And usually I got news for you. They don't get paid for that.

I've had some unpaid debts. I realized, I just met with my accountant because I had that happen last year. I'm like, oh, we can write it off. No, you can't write it off. I learned that's why they have these things, bill collectors. Why do you think companies come after you for your money? Because you can't ever write off the money. It's just, it's not an expense, you know, it's just hollow. It means nothing. It's just unearned income. These guys actually got cash. So when you think about the

AAF, don't feel sorry for these players. It's going to be a benefit for them. This league, if it didn't exist, and I do think Charlie Ebersoll, I think his heart, unlike Billy McFarlane, was in the right place. I just think he had no business being the lead guy. And he made a desperate deal. early on in this thing because his league was in the tank. And desperate deals, for the most part, equal terrible deals. And he got destroyed. Tom Dundan owned him, owed him, the players, the executives, nothing. They never should have been in the situation where they had to make a desperate deal.

You should have had the financing lined up before the thing ever started. And he didn't. And he got him in a bad situation and the thing's over. You know, really one of the, I'd say the star of this draft not named Kyler Murray is Nick Bosa. It's a name we've now been talking about for several years. You know, it's unique because he has a brother who was like him, a guy highly thought of, top five draft pick, and has become an NFL star. And Nick Bosa by the time he was a true sophomore, dominated,

and kind of became on the map and was the number one overall player for most people before Kyler Murray came on the scene headed into the season last year. Had a growing injury, so it derailed his year, but I still think people thought highly of him. Well, I wrote an article on The Athletic because I, you know, I'd watch him on television, but I'd kind of dove in just to see how good he was. And I have friends in the league, I have a lot of thoughts on Nick Bosa. First off, there have been several elite players the last several years to be drafted really high. You know, a couple years ago, Clownie and Mac.

Mack was better earlier. Clowny has come into his own and has become a dominant player. Miles Garrett is really, really special. And, you know, Vaughn Miller of the past is really good. Last year, Bradley Chubb, excellent player. I'm probably leaving guys out. I was talking about top young defensive linemen the other day, and Daniel Hunter was a guy that I left out. So there's a small group of super, super elite guys that go really high that have lived up to the hype. Joey Bosa, his brother.

When I looked at Nick Bosa, I think Khalil Mack was a better college player, like a better prospect coming out. Clownie, better college prospect. Miles Garrett, better college prospect. Joey Bosa, a better college prospect. Now, all those guys are pretty elite players. I mean, Mac's beyond special.

Bosa is dominant. Clowny has become an absolute ass kicker, a little stiff, but his power is. is basically unparalleled, probably beside like Kaleel Mack or Aaron Donald. And Miles Garrett looks to be like a future ass kicker. Now Bradley Chubb last year, who like Bosa, little stiff, not really I wouldn't call a bend the edge guy. And someone on the athletic in the comment section,

when you say bend the edge, what do you mean? And I know a lot of people listen and probably understand that. But when you turn the corner as an edge rusher, stiff players, it's hard for them to kind of run the hula hoop. Well, Vaughn Miller's the best at it because he's like, he's Gumby, and Khalil's really good at it, Miles Garrett's pretty special at it, they're able to bend the edge, and there's nothing you can do when you have that type speed. Clowny can't, really, but he's so powerful that he can drive tackles back into the

quarterback. To me, Bradley Chubb is a lot like Nick Bosa, and Bradley Chubb's damn, he had 12 sacks as a rookie. So after I watched him, and then I also talked to some buddies in the league, and I said, what's his deal off the field? Because when Joey his brother came out, along with Zeke Elliott, there were some red flags.

They were massive partiers, and people thought, how would they handle it? Now, both those two guys were so goddamn good, no one cared. Joey, in, actually, L.A., has been a model citizen. No issues besides, like, contractual stuff and some injuries, but I mean, he's had no

off the field issues. Zeke, some stuff, popped up. He's had a six-game suspension so far in his early career. But from what I was told about Nick Bosa, the coaching staff loved him. Super high character guy, big-time teammate. His football character means how much he cares, how hard he works at football stuff, meetings, you know, work ethic in the weight room, stuff like that is excellent. So to me, he checks all the boxes off the field when it comes to character. On the field, his film is damn good. I think he's a tad bit overhyped.

Again, I don't see a Vaughn Miller. I don't see a Khalil Mack. I don't see a guy of that. I don't even see his brother. But I see Bradley Chup, who was widely considered the top defensive linemen last year and a top five pick. So would I take the guy at 2 if I'm the 49ers? 100%. Now, my question mark is, he's 21 years old.

Maybe he's 22. But he's since his senior year in high school. So 2015, then his freshman year's 16, 17, and then this year's 18. So that's the last four years. His senior in high school, he tore his ACL. This year, he had a sporentio-type deal that missed the season. So in his last four seasons of playing football, he's had two season-ending injuries. So I'm not a doctor, and general managers are not doctors.

You are dependent on your doctors. If they give you a clean bill of health, that's all you can rely on. But it can't be disputed that injuries are a concern, and they are talked about. Now, if you've given a clean bill of health, you'd still probably go with them, but you do have to acknowledge if he gets hurt again, and I get there different human beings, but his brother has had some injuries. Pretty sure this year, his brother was nowhere to be found with the foot injury

until late in the season. It's just something to keep an eye on. I think that first year when he held out, didn't he have a hamstring injury, like the boasts aren't exactly the clean bill of health family. I don't think he's a perfect prospect by any means. I don't know Bradley Chubb's injury history. I don't remember there being much. So just on the injuries alone, I'd probably stack Bradley Chubb.

You know, if I was just stacking him, would put him above. Again, if he had injuries, then maybe I'd put both over. But from my knowledge, I don't think he was an injury guy, I would put over. But that's a great class of guys to be in. He's a really good player. I think he's a tad bit overhyped because people are talking about him. I don't see a transcendent talent. You know, I don't see a Vaughn Miller.

Von Miller, Khalil Mack are Hall of Famers. Khalil Mack got franchise tag. Now, excuse me, Clownie got franchise tag. I don't think Clownie's going to be a Hall of Famer. Clowny's damn good. You know, if you get clowning your team for eight, nine years, you're going to be in pretty good shape. The guy's going to make six or seven Pro Bowls.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs,

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart women's sports. Also, I should make, you know, several Pro Bowls, three or four, but that's fine. Ideally, with the number two overall pick, you want a Hall of Famer. You know, you want Vaughn Miller when you're talking about a pass rusher. You want Khalil Mack. And I just don't see that. Now, that's not a criticism.

He's just, that group of guys should be in rare air. But this guy is going to be a good player, he's going to go high. I just, I have, you know, I'm not all in. I guess. You know, if I'm a nineer and a nineer fan, I get being excited for it. He's going to be a really good player. But, you know, I mean, last year the number five pick in the draft, the number one defensive linemen off the board, had 12 sacks.

So is this guy going to get double-digit sacks as a rookie? To me, probably seven or eight is a little more realistic. I'm always upgrading my car. Not because I need to, because I want to. Today, it's custom rims for my ride. Tomorrow, it might be a new driver's side seat cushion. And eBay motors.com always has what I need. They've got over 122 million car parts, all at the right price.

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Beneficial State Bank member FDIC 2021. Terms and conditions apply. Visit Aspiration.com slash zero for more information. Okay, let's get to the Middlecoff mailbag. At John Middlecoff is my handle. Slide up in those DMs and I'll answer your question. Don't you think Mike Davis will fill the Jordan Howard role question? He was a big physical back in Seattle.

I heard someone say that he was a pass catcher. I don't really remember seeing that a lot, but I think I like Tarek and him in the backfield. What do you think? The one kind of knock that I heard on Jordan Howard, he's out of past catching running back. And in Matt Nagy's offense, you've got to catch the ball. He's also, for a bigger back, not the most physical run. where he's a downhill with a fullback, the bears aren't doing that. The Eagles, a little like the Bears, but they still kind of have some old-school tendencies

that they will run him between the tackles. I definitely think he makes more sense in Philly that he did in Chicago. And you know what, if it doesn't work in Philly, how he didn't give up anything? What do they give like a six-round pick? Who even cares? Ed Oliver had that insane pro day, but the sack numbers don't seem to match the measurable. You talked about pass rushing being kind of an inane ability. Do you think he projects as more of a Broderick Bunkley, or an Aaron Donald? Not that Bunkley was bad, he just saw

a stock rise and crazy good workouts. I do think that at Oliver has a chance to be pretty special. Total freak, number one wide recruit. We've seen the flashes. He was in kind of a crappy program. I'll be honest, I haven't totally studied him, but you're right. You'd like to see a guy at a lower level dominate, and he didn't really. But he's getting double-teamed every play. Now, you could argue he should be splitting the double teams. I do think he's a pretty raw, elite athlete who projects more. And I think you see this a lot in the NBA, a guy that projects to be a better player

in the pros that he does in college. I think that's Ed Oliver. To me, it's a lot also about getting to know his personality. Is he a super tough guy? Some of the weird things that happen in Houston. I do think he's a big-time prospect. But like Bunkley, I do think there's a chance. Like, he's got some bust potential.

He's got some, because he's kind of a tweener. They don't know exactly what position to put him at. I think he has a, the upside is through the roof. I mean, the upside, I think he's been compared before. Ingram, for the Chargers, play some defensive tackle. They moved him around a lot. He was a bigger player in college. He slimmed down since, freak athlete.

He could kind of play that role in the, the NFL, like to me, that's his best case. He just becomes an elite pass rusher. You can put him inside, you can put him outside. He's just kicking ass and taking names. Worst case, I think he's like some of these workout warriors that were underachievers somewhat in college. To me, the hard part, it'd be so much easier.

Like, to me, he might be going in the top five if he had been, you know, at Alabama or at Michigan or at USC. But he's played at Houston. I think that goes against him a little bit. But I'm an Ed Oliver fan. Okay, let's fire through some more questions. With the Broncos hiring Fangio, signing Kareem Jackson, Bryce Callahan, still having Chris Harris, Vaughn Miller, and Chub, there's no, they're to rush the passer.

The signs point to them continuing to stack the defense in the draft. Do you think the strategy of a lockdown, lights out defense, and a decent serviceable offense can work in today's NFL like it did in 2005? Or offense is just too powerful. I think the one problem for them is there is, in a division with the best offense in the league, most explosive offense in the league. The Chargers are just so good. In theory, the Raiders should be a lot better.

I think there's always a place for a great defense, but you've got to be serviceable on offense. Even the Ravens last year, who dominated on defense, you know, had one of the best running games in the NFL. The Bears on offense, they were explosive. They scored touchdowns. So if you're going to have a great defense, you still need to throw up some points. So to me, you could pull that crap off in the 80s and the 90s, just elite elite defense and just okay offense.

To me, in the best of both worlds, I'd much rather have the elite offense and the okay defense. But if I'm going to have an elite defense, I need to do something really well on offense. And in theory, Philip Lindsay should be a stud. Like, he should be a guy. They should be a good running team. And you get Flacco a deep threat. He is a great deep ball thrower, especially out of play action. So, you know, I wouldn't write the Broncos off next year.

They do have really good players. They do have difference-making players on defense. I mean, they got two elite pass rushers, like you said. They should have a very good secondary. Fangio over the last 10 years has had great defensive backfields. Like, they just play very, very well. And they don't always have, like, it's not like they got Ed Reed, Newell Thomas, in his defensive backfields.

He's had guys overachieve. He makes corners become really good players. I think the Broncos are going to be solid next. year. Riley Ridley is the third would be more of a steel. So someone just sent me a three-round mock draft. And it's got the Raiders taking Devin White at four. I could see that. Just some highlights. Drew Lockeem to the Dolphins could see that. Akeem Butler to the Niners, could see that. Chase Winovich, Titans late second. I like Chase Winnovich. Packers taking Riley Ridley. I don't think Riley Ridley is as good as his brother.

Clearly his brother is a damn good player. I mean, last year he kicked ass for the Atlanta Falcons. To me, the problem with the Georgia guys is they are a huge projection because they were in such a run-heavy offense these last couple years, and rightfully so. I mean, the running backs were badasses. You know, this guy's going to get propped up a little bit because of his brother. The genetics.

I don't know, though. I mean, third round, though, it's good value. Yeah, I'd take Riley Ridley in the third round in a heartbeat. With the rumors of a potential Josh Rosen trade, was the draft a bust for the Cardinals last year picking Josh Rosen with the number 10 overall pick and trading up to get Josh? To me, it just depends what they get back, because they didn't give up very much.

It'd be one thing, if you had given up a future one, then I'd be like, I don't know if I'd get rid of Rosen. But they traded up five spots in the first round to get Josh Rosen, and they gave up a third round pick. So if they get, let's say, a second round pick, that's better than what they gave up, then they lose a little bit, like there's some sunk cost in trading the guy that you use the number 10 overall pick on. But who's to say that they would have still been the number one overall draft teaming if they would have taken, I don't know, Derwin James. You'd think, I mean, their quarterback.

Bradford was so terrible and they had Glennon. But to me it just depends what they get back. I mean, what if I told you that somehow the Washington Redskins given pick 15? then you'd be like, no, they didn't lose anything. Now, if they get a third rounder for Josh Rosen, yes, that's a major waste. If they get the Giants' 38th pick and they only gave up a third round pick,

you know, I'd say it's a net negative, but it's not the worst deal in the world. So I just think we've got to see what they get back in return. And here's the other thing. If Kyler Murray turns out to be Russell Wilson meets Michael Vick, who gives a shit? Who honestly? Who will care if Kyler Murray becomes a star?

Not a soul. That to me is the elephant in the room. It's just how good is Kyler Murray? Do you think Gruden and Mayok have enough job security to just trade their first round picks away and stockpile picks for next year's and then pounce Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes? Well, Trevor Lawrence is only a freshman, so he's not even in next year's draft.

It would be for Tua, Jake Fromm, and some of those guys. they definitely do have enough job security, but they got to pick some players. Gruden ain't worried. There was no such thing as a rebuild. Gruden said, F you to the rebuild. He went out and got Antonio Brown, Trent Brown, Lamarcus Joyner.

They signed Ryan Grant. They got Tyro Williams. Like, he's trying to win now. That's why I called BS on the Kliol-Mac trade because Gruden wasn't trying to rebuild. This is not a rebuild. They're trying to, you can't reload when you were terrible, but they're trying to win now.

So I just, they could in theory do that. They're not going to do that, though. Let's see. Please answer on your podcast. 49ers fan, how does Bosa compare to Chubb and Garrett? I talked about that earlier. To me, Chub is his comparison. Garrett is a much better college prospect than Bosa.

He's longer, more athletic, his bend and his speed around the edge. Like, Bosa's explosive. But Garrett is in a lot. elite freak. Hey John, big fan of the pod. Me too. Could you see a scenario in which Seattle trades Russell Wilson for the six pick? If so, you see the Seahawks taking Murray or Haskins and try to emulate what they did back

when they won the Super Bowl? Yeah, to me, people keep asking me, how much would you have to get for Russell Wilson? I said four first round picks. And even then, four first round picks, what does that do for me? I lose Russell Wilson. my best player. Seattle Seahawks have made this playoffs six out of seven years. So every year except one, the Seattle Seahawks in Russell Wilson's career have made the playoffs. And the one year they missed, they went nine and seven.

So I would just pay Russell Wilson $130 million guaranteed. That's what I would do. I'd say, Russell, who's $130 million. Five years, 175, average $35 million a year, and $120 to $130 guaranteed. See at OTAs, buddy. You need a private jet to fly CR to New York. so she can build her brand. We'll give you some companies to contact.

But you ain't going anywhere, Chief. You're our quarterback, Ford a long haul dog. You don't trade Russell Wilson. You just don't. Maybe if, I mean, I swear to God, on my other podcast, we talked about it. I said nine first rounders. That's a little extreme. If you were open to trading them, six first rounders.

So, okay, Gruden, you want them? Give me your three first rounders. this year, give me your two next year, and give me one the following year. But again, even with all the first rounders, who plays quarterback? I do not have a quarterback. The one kind of crime about Russell, they've never even gotten him a backup. Luckily, he doesn't really miss games, but they've never even had a backup. Think how crazy that is.

The one backup they had, I think they drafted the kid later, maybe it was undrafted free agent, was the TCU quarterback who ended up getting in a bunch of trouble, and they had to cut. It's kind of a clown. Question for the mailbag. As part of the top 30 visits, do teams invite players in that they know won't be able to draft

but are likely going to be a rival? Maybe as a way to start game planning against a high-impact player? I have not heard about it. That scenario happening, though I don't think it would be unrealistic. I remember in the Al Davis book, fantastic book,

I think John Cochran was the guy that wrote it, was like a biography on his life, was he would send his defensive coordinator for like 40 years during pro days, even when they didn't need a quarterback, to go to the defensive pro days. Or excuse me, go to the top quarterback's pro days, just to get a feel for the guy's strengths and weaknesses. So I don't think it would be unrealistic if, you know, the team, if you're the 49ers and Kyler Murray's going number one overall,

why don't you bring him in the visit? If he's going to the Cardinals, you're going to face them twice a year for the next potentially decade. bring him in. I think it would make sense for the 49ers for sure. 100% now. He made, like, if the Rams or Seattle wanted to bring them in, he'd probably say no.

But he wouldn't turn down the Niners. They're drafting two overall. So I think it would make sense for the Niners. I thought Al Davis's idea, those genius. Send your defensive coordinator when you know a quarterback's probably going to go to a team, or you just know a quarterback's going to be starting. Like in this draft,

I would have sent my defensive coordinator to Haskins and Kyler Murray's Pro Days. Last year, I would have sent them to bakers, Rosens, Darnels. You're going to have to defend against these guys. You're going to play them, so you might as well kind of get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses. I like that question. Okay, we'll keep it shorter. Middlecoff mailbag.

Appreciate everyone chiming in. Hope you guys are fired up for the weekend. We got Final Four. We got the Masters. Hello, Friends, right around the corner. Can't wait. Bart Scott Boys can't wait. and enjoy the weekend, have a few cocktails, let loose, let your hair down.

If I had hair, I'd let it down for sure. And I'll see y'all next week. Peace. The more we learn about COVID-19, the more questions we have. The biggest question now? What's next? What will COVID bring in six months? A year.

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I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment,

and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

help an acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement home. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Look. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett. My mama want you to weigh better.

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It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my. greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to him, he's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.