The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Middlekauff – 3 & Out – Wentz deal worth it; Jets new GM won't have instant impact; Meaningless minicamp holdouts; Middlekauff Mailbag

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

Subscribe here to the 3 and Out with John Middlekauff Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/3-and-out-with-john-middlekauff/id1352730623?mt=2In this episode, Middlekauff explains why the Eagles were smart to sign Carson Wentz because the price will only get steeper, why the Jets and Texans new GM's won't be able to have much immediate impact due draft and free agency being done, why minicamp holdouts don't have much impact on their own, and answers listener questions in Middlekauff's Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to www.theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hiring. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

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Certainly. Everything brings me joy. Sorry, but. Yeah, but that's what everyone says. Everyone says everything brings them joy. That's her whole thing. Okay, yeah, but when I stare at that limited edition box of cheese, it's in the corner of my room, that brings me joy. Or the, or the Pokemon Oreos that I keep, that brings me joy.

That reminds me of my youth. It wasn't that long ago. Listen to the MyCultura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. listen to podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Royal Caribbean, an award-winning global cruise cruise line. A vacation is what you make it. So are you ready to make the most of it? A Royal Caribbean adventure is the perfect opportunity to not just take a vacation, but to take it for all its worth. We know you're eager to get back out there, and with Royal Caribbean, you can own that moment and rise to the vacation. This is not just a cruise. This is the biggest, boldest vacation

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I'm reing out podcast. Back at it again. recording this on a Monday afternoon. A couple hours, actually two hours right now, 4 o'clock on Monday before the game 5 in the NBA finals. Word on the street. Kevin Durant coming back. I know there's been some rumblings in these parts that the Warriors

thought that he could have gone in game four. He either tapped out on him. I don't know. He can kind of redeem himself tonight. So if you're listening, thought about putting some money on the series. You get the Warriors. It was like a 4-1 underdog.

Probably not going to pull the trigger. When you're listening to this, either Tuesday or Wednesday, you'd be like, Middlecove, you could have made some easy money, or you could have just flush your money down the toilet. So, you know, I'm going to back off, but I am going to make some bets later this week. U.S. Open. I love the U.S. Open.

Can't wait. I'm actually going on Friday just as a fan, probably hang out, drink some beers, eat some food, watch my man Tiger. Not really my man, just a fan, and we've never met. We walked by each other a couple times, very, very close. He actually looks kind of like,

I wouldn't say a mythological figure, but when you see them in person, you're like, well, that's Tiger Woods. He's got this perfectly little small waist. He's tall, linear. Go to my scattering report. But fired up for the U.S. Open. Fired up for this show. This is kind of the last week of NFL stuff before basically the summer hits.

And the summer for NFL people, scouts and coaches, they basically just get a month off. Like you just get a month or maybe even a little more, depending on when you report for training camp, like four or five weeks where you just get to do whatever the hell you want. Just leave. Because obviously once the season starts, it's a marathon that does not stop, especially for the scouting staff. Once training camp hits, you're kind of going until the draft. And coaches just go so hard during the season.

It's a grind. So this kind of the last week, I know Belichick let the team off. I think this morning, Monday morning, just get out of here. So they're starting their vacation a week early. I know like Kyle Shanahan with the Niners, they just practiced Tuesday and Wednesday. And then he basically get, I think they have a picnic or something, family picnic on Thursday and then they basically get to bounce. But I'm pretty excited for the show.

Carson Wentz signed his big contract. I'm going to dive into that here in a second. Joe Douglas and the Houston kind of the general manager getting fired out of the left field. I guess it might not be out of left field if you're a Houston fan, but for us that casually follows the Texans, I was kind of blown away. And just why I think it's a little overhyped some of these GM movements. And then a lot of players, Nidocque, I can finally say his name, Clowny, pretty sure Chris Jones of the Chiefs.

I'm sure I'm missing some guys. I know Malcolm Jakin showed up. But just sitting out mini camp to quote-unquote gain leverage, do anything. We'll dive into that a little bit later. Then, of course, Middlecoff mailbag, slide up into my DMs at John Middlecoff on Instagram and Twitter. But my DMs on Instagram wide open. You slide in it at John Middlecoff, which is my name, and then I'll answer your questions here on the Middlecoff mailbag. But I'm going to start with this, the Carson Wentz contract.

And one thing that I use to kind of analogize good business decisions usually comes back to real estate. For most humans, including myself, unless you like own a business, it'll be the biggest purchase you individually ever make. Now, you could argue my little brother, we were talking today like, you know, depending a kid cost you over the life, you know, of his 18 years while he lives at home, give or take, 500K. you make other expensive purchases and spend a lot of money on other things. But an individual purchase at the time of sale, real estate's pretty important and definitely a pretty big relative to how much money you have purchase. Well, and I made my first real estate purchase a couple years ago, Bonacondo in the Bay Area, which was crazy. But the one thing about real estate is historically it's always gone up, right? Well, there are still recessions and things come back to Earth.

Some even, you know, what happened in 2008, which is probably not likely to happen this time around, even though the recession is inevitably coming, it probably won't crumble, but it will slow down and hell might even come back a little bit. But with quarterback contracts, unlike real estate, they just keep going up. It literally is never coming back. Like real estate, you could argue any business is always going to have its ups and downs, right? There'll be a peak, then it'll come back. Like if you've invested in stocks, it'll come back, it'll stop.

It'll go back up. It's kind of a roller coaster. That's how normal business works. It's up and down. Well, right now, when it comes to quarterbacks, and really when you look at the modern-day NFL, since the early 90s when free agencies started, when it comes to quarterbacks, it's literally only gone up.

There has never been a quarterback recession. And I think it's fair to say there never will be. Now, maybe one day, like our quarterback's going to get $100 million one day. You'd say that sounds insane. But I was listening to something the other day Where they're like well once upon a time You could buy Manhattan real estate for two dollars Now that might have been in like the 20s or the 30s

But you still could So who's to say in like 50 years A hundred million dollars for a quarterback per year I mean we're already at 35 But when it came to Carson Wentz There were a lot of different people on both sides And when it comes to real estate for me You should always buy if you can't afford

it is never a bad idea to buy. Now, like I just said, it may come back to Earth, right? You may lose money in the short term, but big picture, you will never lose. Historically proven. You always make money on real estate. Quarterbacks, whenever you get the opportunity to sign a franchise quarterback, you have to sign them. Because that price point is never changing. That's where the real estate analogy gets a little tricky because the price point does change a little bit.

But like with Carson Wentz, his number, was only going to go up, whether he played well or played poorly this year. Because as we saw, and I don't think anyone would argue this, the big knock on Carson Wentz is injuries. And in football, that's a big red flag, right? The best ability is availability. And he's only finished one, I think, of his, what is this, is going into his fourth year.

He's finished one of three seasons. So, not ideal. We all acknowledge that. But when it comes to pure talent, think about this a couple years ago. The Redskins probably handled their quarterback situation as poorly as possible because they would have been able to sign Kirk Cousins if they were willing to spend, I don't know, $50, $55 million in guaranteed, but they kept trying to get the number in like the low 30, so they could never get a deal. Well, they eventually franchised him twice, and it almost got to the number that they could have just offered him to begin with.

And then he walked and they got nothing. And then the Redskins, to acquire him, had to give him $85 million. Now, part of the reason that number was so high was because there was competition on the market, but he actually turned down less money from the Jets to go to Minnesota. So if Kirk Cousins, which every human being listening to this, and every human being in the NFL would easily admit, is nowhere close to the ceiling or as talented as Carson Wentz. So if he got $85 million, there's no chance on God's Green Earth

if Carson Wentz is going to sign a contract, it's going to be anything less than like $100 million. And obviously what Howie ended up giving them was like $107 million. I got news for you. It's a good contract. Because the other thing with a quarterback is part of paying them a contract is showing you believe in the guy. Because he, like your coach, is the one driving the bus for your franchise.

So part of extending them, and I think it's why so consistently coaches get those quote-unquote fake extensions because you don't ever want to see a head coach be a lame duck guy. Well, you don't ever want a quarterback, especially a young guy, especially a guy you drafted to kind of have a lame duck feel. You want to show everyone you believe in them. Well, part of that is it's expensive. Part of believing in the guy is it's not cheap. But I also got news for you. I think people too often talk about these contracts. How could you pay Carson & Wend's that much money? Like the salary cap is $80 million.

The salary cap only goes up. It's why it's one of the most unique businesses in all of America, even for paying players. Because unlike the NBA, where the salary, reason have gone up, the salary cap hasn't budged in like three years. So you have to pay Chris Paul or Kevin Durant or whoever all this money. It's not like you get more relief from the salary cap. The salary cap has been stagnant. We're in the NFL every year. It goes up about $10 million. It's gone up about $50 million the last five years. I got news for you. It's going to go up another $10, $11 million this year. And it's only going to continue to rise because the NFL's crushing it. Now, will it always rise at that rate? Maybe not. But for the first,

foreseeable future, especially when you factor in how important quarterbacks are, it's just going to keep rising at the rate of the cap rising, which is healthy, which is fine. That, to me, shows like a healthy economy. And the NFL clearly is thriving. That's why I always like, well, something's up with basketball. The salaries keep going up, but the salary cap doesn't. Now, I know if you get really nerdy basketball, there was the one year where the

cap spike like $15 million. They did it over one year instead of a four-year period, but you're still talking small little incremental millions when you're talking 20, 30, 40 million contracts. Like the only way for a contract not to have a massive impact on a salary cap when you're talking 20, 30 million dollars is for that cap to go up not a million or two, but usually what it would be, nine figures, right, to be up 10, or I guess that'd be eight figures, you know, $10 million plus.

That way, if you have to incrementally add from 25 to 28 or 28, or 28, you know, to 31, it's not as crazy. Because again, money is all relative. I saw before Warriors game, I think it was game four, people had bought courtside tickets in the Bay Area for $50,000 each. So two tickets for like $50,000 for $100,000. And I just copied and pasted the tweet from Darren Revelle. And a lot of people in my mentions were like,

I can't even fathom. Yeah, and I agree, because I don't have, you know, $100 million, but if you have $100 million, spending $50,000 on a ticket to the Golden State Warriors game is not that weird, right? If you only have, $500,000, spending $50,000 on those tickets is moronic, right? If you have $100,000, or I'm just saying you make a hundred, you couldn't even afford to do that. So money's all relative. And I think a lot of players, like, when it comes to Carson Wentz. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

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Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you. conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clipper's,

on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about Defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup,

he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get to fly.

He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out. real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

He had to view himself, well, I'm way better than Kirk Cousins. That's where, so that number immediately starting at like 90. And then you go, well, two defensive players last year in Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack got more than Kirk Cousins. Well, clearly, I'm a quarterback. I'm clearly more important than those players. So that number already starts at 100. You go, well, Russell Wilson got 110 or whatever.

I'm not quite as good as him. Definitely not as accomplished as him. So the number comes down a little bit. But I think people freaked. Like, you just have to roll the dice. Yeah, he's injured a lot. Well, if he's always injured, they're screwed. If he's healthy, they're fine.

And they just have to kind of make that bet. And they have to put all their chips in the middle of the table. Because what are you going to do? Have him play out this fourth year, then have him play out his fifth year option? What if he wins the MVP this year? What's that number start at? $125.

So you're risking the price where the floor is already set. The floor is already $100 million, give or take. The ceiling is not set. So if he's willing to sign it something based off, yeah, he's had a couple injuries, if he had won the MVP and won a couple of playoff games, that number would be higher in Russell Wilson's. Just on the simple fact that he's the newest guy. So I think this was a no-brainer deal for Howie.

There is definitely risk in this giving his injuries. but there's risk in everything and they didn't really have a choice. They traded up to get this player. They drafted them number two overall. They got rid of their contingency plan and rightfully so because they couldn't afford both of them in Nick Foles. The time was now and if anything in a year,

I would imagine more than likely this contract will be viewed as a steal because no matter what, even if he kind of stayed hurt, his value on the open market would still be immense. Like, again, these quarterback contracts, unlike even my condo, I thought it was going to rise like $200,000 in three years. It slowed down a little bit here. It's gone up like $100K, right? But it's still gone up.

Eventually, it's going to come back down. I know one thing, these quarterback contracts are not coming back down. So kudos to Howie. And it's now time for Carson Wentz to prove you can stay on the field. This clip is brought to you by State Farm. At State Farm, they know it's important to ensure the things you love. They also get that everyone has a budget. That's why they have options, like insuring your car and your home, getting you great rates on both.

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I wanted to be a WWE superstar. All right, what does it take to be a WW superstar? What are the tools I will need to give me every possible opportunity I can get? And so I took the tools of acting classes, improv classes, wrestling school, everything I possibly can to knock on the door of WWW. The people of the, everyone on that real world show would wear my T-shirts would always ask me to do the MIS. Like, they were so supportive. Like, you don't get it that very often. You really don't.

Listen to the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This clip is brought to you by State Farm. At State Farm, they know it's important to ensure the things you love. They also get that everyone has a budget. That's why they have options, like insuring your car and your home,

getting you great rates on both. It's a good idea to consider State Farm. For surprisingly great rates, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Call or go to stayfarm.com for a quote today. In high school, I never really was like dating around or anything like that. And then I got into a long-term relationship and was dating someone for a few years. And then after getting out of that relationship, I think this past year or so or whatever,

whatever has been like actually living life as a single person. It's very hard. And I think it's not hard, I should say, but like it's very hard. I should say, but like, it's very different knowing nothing but long-term relationships. And then moving into like the single lifestyle that's like, quote, dating around and like feeling people out. That's kind of been something interesting to navigate. Listen to the My Cultura podcast network available on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Can I tell you about my friends at Shopify?

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for a free 14-day trial and get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Grow your business with Shopify today. Go to Shopify.com slash J-O-H-N Shopify. Shopify.com slash John. I guess the big news of, when was that, Friday night? Saturday, I don't even remember. The Houston Texans signed Bill O'Brien's handpicked general manager in Brian Gain. and obviously the Jets officially hired Joe Douglas.

So one thing that's clear in the business, in the industry, NFL football, I guess I don't need to say NFL football because it's National Football League, in the NFL, forever a lot of GMs could kind of hold their job for a little bit longer than coaches. Now I know Brian Gang got fired after one year into a five-year deal. You know, Mike McCagnan got to pick the draft, both these guys. draft and free agency. The timing is not ideal. Now, there is never, to me, a wrong time to do the right thing,

so if you feel he's the wrong guy, get rid of him. I know this. I know more about Joe Douglas, just having people in Philly that work for him, that really like him, and obviously anyone you read or hear talk about speaks very highly of Joe Douglas. Whoever Houston ends up hiring, whether it's Nick Casario, if Belichick lets him interview him,

or whoever. The timing for these individuals, Like, if you hire a brand new coach, you can see the impact immediately, right? You hire Andy Reed in Kansas City first year playoffs. You hire Sean McVeigh, first year playoffs. You hire Doug Peterson a couple years later in Super Bowl. Coach is pretty immediate. Jim Harbaugh shows up, boom, NFC championship.

Bruce Ariens shows up to Arizona, boom, they start winning. With a general manager, it takes some time, usually. And that's if you get hired in January. Well, both these guys, there are three times in the NFL. NFL to add to your team. Free agency, the draft, and like the waiver wire slash trades kind of in season. Well, free agency is over and the draft is over. So now the only time to really add to your team now is in training camp you could probably make a trade, the wire cuts at the end of training camp, and that's kind of it. You know, you might be able to do something

in season with like a street free agent. But again, I mean, we're talking if the drafted free agency is probably 50% of it, and then the guys already on your roster, another probably 45%, the additional is like 5%. Maybe the practice squad guys, but they're usually already on your own team. So I think the hype for Joe Douglas, is Joe Douglas here to save the day? What can Joe Douglas do? They already had the draft. They already signed levy on Bell.

They've already paid C.J. Mosley all that money. Like, he really can't have much of an impact for 2019. Whoever the Houston Texans hire, like at least you know Joe Douglas, they gave him a six-year contract, they paid him, I think, three and a half, almost three and a half million dollars a year. It's a nice little contract. If you're a general manager, you just get a six-year, basically $19 million deal, maybe $20 million. That feels pretty good. That's kind of feel pretty good for Joe Douglas. But if you're whoever the Houston Texans hire, it's pretty clear that Bill O'Brien kind of does his own thing.

I wouldn't call him like a lone, just employee, but he can't work with anyone. He's like the modern day Jim Harbaugh. Rick Smith couldn't work with him. So they're like, okay, we got rid of Rick Smith. We'll let you pick your own guy. Brian Gain, can't work with him. Like, Bill, who can you work with?

You know, I don't know. Now, I think both these jobs are pretty damn good. If you're Joe Douglas, you inherit, I think Adam Gays is a pretty good coach. I think Bill O'Brien really good coach. Those are two good coaches. So if you're a GM, the first thing you want usually is to have a good coach. You've got two good offensive coaches.

Blowing up there on my iPad. Then you got two good young quarterbacks. We know Deshawn Watson's good. I'm a believer in Sam Donald. I think they're going to be really good. Now, the Jets thing is a little different than Houston. The market, the pressure. You got like multiple owners, but you don't really.

You got Woody and then you got his brother. It's not the easiest thing. Clearly with Houston, you had Bob McNair for it. he's passed away now his son's running like to me my theory on houston's pretty simple bill o'brien liked this guy in theory makes him the gym they go into free agency not great they go into the draft they don't land the top tackle the draft picks let's just say in theory bill o'brien wasn't that pleased with then they go to training or at o't i o'ttas bill gets like a month of these guys and now i think you've got to be careful to doing this but this is my guess

This is my educated guess. He goes, all of our draft picks suck. They are terrible. So he goes in one day, he puts his feet up. He's, you know, having a Diet Coke sitting at Hal McNair's office. And he's like, our general manager, the rookies he's given us are terrible. And maybe they did a deep dive after that and they realized it was time to make a change. Which, again, both these two GMs, I don't know enough about the Houston situation.

McCagnan had to go. But I think the impact, like the hype, because Joe Douglas was a major part of what they did in Philadelphia. He's a high-level guy, a highly respected human, just a good guy. We'll see who Houston ends up hiring. But in the near future, in the present, which is this season, I really don't think there's much they can do, especially Joe Douglas. Like, they spent the money on some players.

Like, you're just kind of stuck with Levion Bell. You're stuck with C.J. Mosley. The draft picks, you're just kind of stuck with. Right? You just are. And you don't want to just trade, like, a second-round pick if you don't like them, because you won't get good enough value. Look at what they just did with Josh Rosen.

They drafted them number 10 overall. A year later, they traded them for pick 62. Like, that's a steal if you're Miami. So maybe you start calling up Houston, and maybe you start calling up the Jets, and you start asking, like, who would you get rid of? Would you get rid of someone? Because this might be the time where one of these coaches,

you know, especially, I mean, both gays and Bill O'Brien are little nuts, maybe they're really down on the guy that another team's really high on and you can kind of steal them. You know, the Chiefs did that somewhat in theory when they just got Darren Lee, a former first rounder, who's a flawed guy, but he definitely can pass, he can cover, you know, as a past covering linebacker. They got him for a six-round pick. It's the easiest deal you're ever going to make. So can you get someone on Houston's roster?

Like, could you get Clowny right now, you know, for like a fourth round pick just because they just want to get rid of them and the money? I don't know. I mean, you just never know. You know, could you get someone from the New York Jets roster at a much-level. lower price just because like gase doesn't want him and joe's trying to like fit in with gase so again these are major stories it's a major deal whenever a general manager loses his job because usually we only get one a year sometimes we don't even get any and we've had two since the draft that's insane and not just since the draft but like weeks after the draft i mean the houston one was literally three

days ago we're in the middle of june here it's nuts but i i don't think it's fair whether nick Casario ends up getting this job with Houston and definitely Joe Douglas has a bunch of hype to expect like they're going to be wheeling and dealing right away because there's really not much they can do given the time. Okay, let's get into players skipping voluntary minicamp. You know, it's not technically a big issue, right? If, on a voluntary practice, if you skip it because you can always go, well, it's voluntary. I don't have to be there.

Well, when it becomes mandatory and you skip, it's a legitimate story. Now, I've been on the Levion and Odell train for a while, but when it became mandatory, they showed. Well, it's involuntary, and Chedavion Clowny, no show. Nodakwe, the sweet pass rusher for the Jaguars, no show. Chris Jones, for the Chiefs, no show. Or hasn't been there. I guess they officially practice tomorrow. Dowdy's a practice, or if you're listening the day of.

I think with all these guys, you just have to look at it pretty simply. What is to be gained? Because a holdout, you're trying to gain leverage. And most of you guys in different businesses, I know I'm trying currently to acquire a car dealership to my other podcast and have them on as a sponsor. Well, I've got one guy really interested, and the way I get him even more interested is I got his competition up the road. And I said, well, listen, if you don't sign, I'm going to go with the other dealership right up. about 20 miles away from you. And we'll hit you in the teeth.

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This is Clifford Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliver Show, I'm bringing you. conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

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It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm CJ Toledano and our podcast point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall.

And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash will get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He run up the court, licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It works. But I gave you the first option. Now, these players don't necessarily have that type leverage because they can't, they're not a free agent. They can't go shop a deal. But the one way they are able to gain leverage is by not showing and giving the threat that they won't show around games. To me, missing training camp, or excuse me, these offseason mini camps means nothing. Do you have the stones to show once the pads come on and they can legitimately, because they can start finding you in August once training camp officially starts?

Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald. They got big deals. Why? Because it was clear they weren't showing up week one. And if you have the balls, the stones, and the wherewithal to get close to week one, you can scare teams. But is Clowny not going to show up until week one? is Ndokwe not going to show up until week one? Chris Jones, who's under contract for another year,

he's just not going to show up until week one? Maybe one of them might. Like Clowny, are you not going to show up week one? The franchise tag, last time I checked, is a pretty big number. Now, if you're willing to go that for, because the thing that gains the most leverage typically, and I've negotiated some very small deals, I'm sure many of you have negotiated a lot bigger deals than ever I have.

But once you do that, when you slow play someone, it creates a nervousness. When you don't reply, when you don't show up, they go, God, maybe this guy really is seriously. And I think Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald played it perfectly last year. Like, Kille Mack knew part of Raider fans, well, you didn't show up. He knew you guys weren't going to pay him. He knew his market value. And the moment Aaron Donald signed, he knew the minimum number was like $87 million. With these guys, it's a little trickier.

Chris Jones is probably the best of the bunch. Ah, and the dockway's pretty good, too. Both of them are really good. So you're talking huge money. Not Khalil Mac Aaron Donald money, but probably like $75 million. I'm not paying Clowny that much money. So like Clowny, you can no-show.

I don't really care. I'd probably trade Clowny. But these other two guys I'd like on my team. But they're going to cost an astronomical amount of money. And they're not signing team-friendly deals. So it becomes a little tricky. but if both of them want to truly get the deal, do not show up.

Do not show up. Because they can tell you all you want, will negotiate in good faith. That's just not really how the NFL works. Now, I get it's hard for these players. It's hard to hold out, right? Especially when you start getting nervous, you still, as a player, make a lot of money.

Even if you're a second round pick, that, I mean, a million or two million dollars, is still a lot of money to a lot of individuals. So, yeah, you have $75 million potentially to make, but you start getting, we're all humans. And for most of these guys, these guys aren't businessmen, they're football players. So they're being told what to do by their agent. And not every move works out perfectly. Like, Leveon Bell just didn't show up.

Like, as I've said over and over, it's one of the dumbest moves in the history of football. Like Clowny, do not pull Levy on Bell. Because whatever his franchise tag is, like $15, $16 million, you're never getting that back. right you're just not now someone you would get money as a free agent but you get money as a free agent and play on that deal now you risk injury sure but let's call it what it is in the history of football the amount of guys per year that have a career ending injury of blue chip players is very small very small maybe one a year sometimes less so i i think that's really tricky right now i would say at the moment the group of guys that are no shows and you've seen a lot of guys show up

Like Levion, Odell, now, granted, those guys are under, they've signed for contract, so they wouldn't even be in this category. But Malcolm Jenkins is in this category, a little different because he's the older version of these guys. He wants a new contract. But he showed the day. To me, when you don't show for voluntary mini-camp, it definitely puts the antenna of the contract negotiators up. It creates like, okay, there may be something here, but you give it all back if you show up the moment training camp starts. You have to hold out multiple weeks into training camp.

do not intend to miss a game, you have to give them the threat of potentially missing a game. And I don't know these three guys well enough to know. I think Clownie's in a tricky spot. Like Clownie, I'm sorry, I'm not crying tears for you. You were the number one overall pick. And what was that? Five years ago, so the contract he signed was like $25, $26 million. And that doesn't even include the fifth year option that he played on last year. So what's Clownie made, like $35, $40 million already? And what's his franchise tag? You know, if Amaris is 13, Clownies has got to be higher than that.

So the franchise tag, or Amari's on the fifth year option, excuse me. I got my numbers mixed up. But his franchise tag number is pretty big. So this is a guy, like, Chris Jones was second round pick. Nadegh. Nadegh, has never signed a big deal. Like, Clowny's already made cash. That's why, to me, he's kind of in a different situation.

He's also the worst of the bunch, even though he is a really good player. He's just a limited player. I'm sorry, Clowny. You're not getting an Aeronald deal. Here's how much money Clowny's made. Clowny's made $51 million. Excuse me. He's made $35 million.

And he's scheduled to make $16 million this year. So if he plays this year on the franchise tag, he'll have made $51.5 million. Like Clowny, you're not in like Dak Prescott, Chris Jones, you know, like the sweet guy, that were after first round. I'm not worrying about you. Like, bro, just play for $16 million. The other two guys, it gets a little tricky. But if they really want to cash in, they got to hold out. And history would show you most guys show back up.

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Call or go to StateFarm.com for a quote today. I can post a picture that a girl that is way skinnier than I am, a size two, a size four, the same exact picture. And I look vulgar because I'm thicker. But if a thinner girl does it, it's not that much of a big deal. And that's what I'm not okay with. Because why? Why? Because I have cellulite because I have thick thighs.

I can't do that. I can't feel sexy in my own skin. And those are the things that I want to break because there are so many women like me. And I want to be and represent us, you know? Obviously, there's always room for improvement. I always want to look better. I want to work out. I want to lose weight.

But in reality, this is the body God gave me. And I've never really been skinny. Listen to the My Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm always upgrading my car. Not because I need to, because I want to. Today, it's custom rims from my ride. Tomorrow, it might be a new driver's side seat cushion. And eBaymotors.com always has what I need.

They've got over 122 million car parts, all at the right price. That's perfect for me, because I'm a car guy. in the garage? It's two in the morning. Uh, almost done. Okay, I'm a car fanatic. eBay Motors. Let's ride. Let's get into the middle cough mailbag, and I got to tell the truth here. Uh, I finished the first couple segments, and then it was like 30 minutes away from game time,

and I realized, well, I kind of want to make a little dinner before the game starts. So I went to make some dinner, and then I was like, well, I kind of want to watch the game. And I'm recording this now. game has ended. So that was pretty nuts. It looks like Kevin Durant, knock on wood, but doesn't look good. Might have torn his Achilles. He looked incredible when he came back and just an absolute, I mean, what a gut check win by. I'll say this. And people think I'm biased or whatever because I didn't grow up a Warriors fan. I say it all the time. I enjoy the Warriors because of Steph Clay and Dreemann. I've watched every game they've played together for the last six years,

literally every minute of every game they've played. And especially Steph and Clay, and Draymond too, but Drayvon's different because he doesn't shoot. But those two guys, you talk about championship medal, championship blood, all the cliche BS that we kind of make fun of, it's real with these guys. I mean, they might lose, but they weren't going out like chumps. Obviously, Kevin gave him a little lift, but those two guys, and for as, I guess, harmless as the name sounds, the splash bros, those two guys are stone cold killers. Now, they make some terrible decisions down the stretch, turnovers, but that was a hell of a win. I still put a little money on the Warriors before the game.

Once I saw some Kevin Durant highlights of him practicing, I ended up doing it, and then he goes out, and I'm probably screwed. I don't think they're going to win the championship. It kind of feels like Toronto wins it in game seven, but that was a pretty intense game. Okay, let's get to the Middokoff Mailback. That's why I came back. That's a great part about podcasts.

I can start a podcast like seven hours ago. I can go off and do other things, and then I can come back and talk about what just happened. Okay. Middlecoff mailback at John Middlecoff, slide up into my Instagram DMs. With the recent trend of spread quarterbacks having success in the NFL, would you attribute their success to being better prepared

coming out of the college or NFL offense coaches? Or, oh, better prepared coming out of college or NFL coaches being more progressive? I understand it certainly is a combination of, of both, and each case is different, but who would you give more credit to? I think it's more that NFL coaches are being more open-minded than quarterbacks coming out more prepared. Now, I do think they're more prepared in the sense that a lot of people run spread concepts, so the offense parallels each other.

Now, I also think there are some probably arguments to be made. These guys are more prepared because they specialize on a sport, so in high school they're just throwing more, the seven-on-seven camps, you're getting more reps. You know, the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours, it's no different than anything you do, right? Leading meetings, doing podcasts, coaching football, playing football, the more you do something. And football is the ultimate example of this because in the sport, all we talk about during the week is reps, reps, reps, reps, practice reps, game reps. All we want is reps, just keep stacking the reps.

Well, these guys, these quarterbacks, and I had Andy on Andy Reid, no big deal, I don't know if you've heard of him, head coach, Kansas City Chiefs. Last year, talking about Mahomes, we'll get them again sometime once after summer break that hopefully, I know he's listed, so Coach Reid, if you're listening, we want to have you on. He said that Patrick Mahomes was pretty easy to evaluate, because not like he was throwing it 17 times a game. He was throwing at like 60. I mean, that one game against Oklahoma, he threw like 80. He just had so much to go off of.

And again, I do, though, give the coaches a lot of credit for being open-minded. But, you know, I went to 49er practice the other day talking to Kittle, and we had McGlinchy on my other podcast. So you want to hear that. Mike McGlinchy's the man. Kyle's playbook is pretty intense. You know, it's a, it's not your Lincoln Riley playbook. So, again, kind of cop-out answer.

I'm going combination of it all. but probably a little more credit, slightly more credit to the coaches for being open-minded and a decent amount of credit to the players for getting more reps. I am wondering how a scouting department is organized, how targets are determined and how each team's needs are communicated to the scouting staff. Take example, the Raiders. How do Mayok and Gruden identify who to scout? Who should scout them?

And how much time and effort should put into a particular prospect? When a new staff comes to power and organization how much energy is spent building the our ideal scouting department. It's a good question. Are the same scouts who draft prospects used to scout players on practice squads or roster bubbles? Okay, I got to, let me take a drink of water. This is a deep question.

On the most basic level, when you scout the college players, you scout every player equally. And then as you get probably to December, January, you start isolating the players that team wants. But basically starting now, watching tape up until late in the season, you're evaluating every player on the team to the nth degree.

And that includes underclassmen they tell you are coming out. So you're putting a lot of effort into every player. That's why scouts work so much. So you know everything about every prospect. And then you start isolating guys around the senior bowl and then going into the combine, you have an idea of who you like and who you don't like. So it's just a process. You start with a huge

huge blank canvas, you put all the names on them, and then guys kind of dwindle each other out. Now, obviously, if you have a scheme as a scout, like your team runs a 4-3, your team runs a 3-4, your team has press corners, your team has zone corners, your team is a zone running team, your team is a power running team, you look for certain attributes in different players, no different than free agency. Your pro scouts evaluate every free agent, and then once you get, you, you know around the senior bowl really with with free agents probably a little early you start isolating the guys you like and the guys you might need so it's it's really a process you always

evaluate every player and then you go from there now coaches will have players that they have a soft spot for players they previously coached I mean there are a lot of variables but on the most basic level you have a guy doing every region and your pro scouts do in every team like you evaluate every player in the league every year So you have a new grade on every player, just like you evaluate every draft prospect who is coming out every single year. So you've evaluated every player. Now, you might only like 20% of that group, but you've evaluated 100% of the available players. Now, certain teams have certain, you know, characteristics and things that they check yes or no on guys to throw them off the board.

So it's always different. But, and then the practice squad, I was a pro scout. you are constantly evaluating the practice squad players. And most of the practice squad players are evaluated by the time the season starts because that's where you spend all your time in the preseason evaluating the roster bubble guys. So when the practice squads are developed, you have an idea when the claiming, you know, that big waiver wire comes out, you know the guys you like. And then the guys that you aren't able to claim or didn't need to claim at the time

that you had a good grade on that go on to the practice squads, they're not going to play anymore. Because if you're a practice squad guy, you don't have any more game film once the season starts. So once the season starts, if it's like week eight, and you need a corner, and you go, look at your practice squad corner list,

and you go, we really like this corner on the Minnesota Vikings practice squad. Well, then you can claim him. When I say claim him, you can just sign him. Now, you've got to put him on your 53-man roster. Now, in turn, like the Minnesota Vikings may just keep him and elevate him the 53-man roster. But if you want to take that guy to your, You're a 53-man roster, and they don't.

He's yours. Now, that means you have to cut a player, but usually when you do that is because of an injury. And sometimes it's cutting a guy, but, yeah, so it's, I mean, a fairly complicated process, but I think on its most basic level, you're evaluating every player. You know, and that's, like, when I did the West Coast, I evaluated every player. We had Deshaun and Jeremy Macklin. I had to spend just as much time on Marquis Lee as I did on Ziggy Ansa. You know, just as much time on Brandon Cooks as I did on Star-Lotolole.

You spend, I could never say his name He's called Star. You get what I'm saying though. You just evaluate, like my buddy's in the SEC. You're evaluating the top quarterbacks just like you are, the safeties, just like you are the wide receivers. So every player is evaluated.

Then the players your GM and your assistant GM like, and then your coaching staff kind of comes into the process after the season starts liking. Then you dwindle it down from there. And when you start, like, if you run a 4-3 defense, you know that you're not going to need a 350-pound nose staff. And if you run a 3-4 defense, that nose tackle, even though there aren't that many in college football anymore, is more intriguing to those guys. Like, you might not have to ride them, but you would just say don't fit.

Hopefully that answer the question. How far can you see Justin Fields take the Ohio State Buckeyes this year? Why aren't they getting mentioned as the top teams in the country to compete for the championship? I'm pretty sure. Maybe I'm wrong on this. I might have to look. I'm just doing this off the cuff. Is he eligible to play?

I thought that he had to sit out. My beef with him, and again, I just watched a very, very little bit of him at Georgia was that he was highly inaccurate. Now, if Ryan Day can coach him up and get his accuracy going, because he clearly wasn't an elite athlete, five-star recruit, and he's got a big arm, but it felt like the ball he had no clue where it was going. Now, there is no disputing the roster on Ohio State. I don't even need to know the players they have.

I just know they got sweet players. So if he can just be more accurate than he wasn't, Georgia, he should be a really good player. So yeah, I mean, whenever, if he's eligible to play this year, I'd go, yeah, they could win the national championship. If he's not, then they'll be fun because the guy, whoever they're starting, is going to be pretty good. I don't remember where I heard it from originally, but one idea I really loved was more or less taken away three or four weeks of the preseason, adding two weeks of the regular season. Each team plays 17 games with two bi-weeks, eight home, eight away, and an international game for every team.

have these games played all over the place instead of just London and Mexico City. For two weeks, you'd have an international games placed paratically in the week with a specific buy week before or after for every team. That way, no teams get an extra home game. No team loses a home game.

I kind of like where this is going. What are your thoughts? My first reaction is I kind of like. Now, we got Mexico, we got London, where else could we go? We'd go Canada. We go Japan. We could go Hawaii.

We could go Africa is pretty far away. We'd go like Germany, Spain? Yeah, I'm not opposed to it at all. I actually kind of like that idea. That means every team gets the equal amount of home games. I like that. With the recent contract censor for Carson Wentz, is it a little absurd that $170 million is guaranteed?

Not saying he isn't a great talent, but with the tendency to get injured, I talked about it early. I just think it's simple economics. He's a much better player than Kirk Cousins. And once Kirk Cousin signs for that number, and then when the two defensive guys signed for that number, now I know those guys haven't missed time like he has,

but again, I watched the Raiders play a pre-season game, or excuse me, a post-season game against the Houston Texans with Khalil Mack, who that day, him and Clowny, were the two best players on the field. Mack was dominant. They had 11 tackles. He had like two tackles for loss and a sack. He was unreal.

I mean, he was a man amongst boys beside clowning. But they didn't have a quarterback and they got their ass kicked. So I just think the quarterbacks mean so much, just the cost of doing business. Why do so many NFL execs owners have their heads up their asses? I like the way this question is starting. They get paid millions of dollars and only need to focus on football, yet they lack basic NFL knowledge. Example. Jets, GM debacle, Chargers, move to L.A., Raiders, hiring Jay.

I think you mean John, but did they hire Jay? Maybe I don't know about that. Cardinals, Rosen, Giants, 19 draft, Ravens, Lamar. I agree. I think this is what makes sports so much fun to talk about because we see things happening all over the sports landscape in any sport, baseball, basketball, football, but probably more in football and basketball than baseball now with the analytics that are just, I mean, jaw-droppingly insane.

Daniel Jones at 6. The Ravens going all in on a wingty offense with Lamar Jackson. The Cardinals and just their debacle. I wouldn't even just say Rose and I would say Hiring Cliff Kingsbury, keeping the GM, just insane. The Jets deba-for-sure. I don't really have an answer to it. Well, one answer would be,

I think you see a lot of guys get fired now more than ever quicker. Like the length of their tenure can be ripped out from underneath them at any moment. GM or coach. I think the reason for that probably now more than ever is money. Every team has a lot of money. The league is making so much money. Every team is getting free media money. It's not free media money because you work for it with the games.

But all these teams, like buying a... GM out for $10 million is nothing to him. It's a line item. Well, back in the day, like, think how many coaches, how many people would just get fired randomly. Happened a lot with the Yankees. Well, Steinbrenner had more money. And it happened a lot with Al Davis. Well, Al Davis didn't pay his coaches anything. So, it really didn't happen at this rate for a long time. Like Jed York, could Jed York have fired in three straight years afforded to fire? Jim Harbaugh, Chip Kelly. He actually didn't owe Jim Harbaugh any money because he went to Michigan.

but Jim Tom Sula and Chip Kelly and Trent Balke, he fired three guys in a 12-month span. The Niners, Jed York doesn't have billions of dollars like some of these owners. Now he got the money because of the stadium has a ton of money. That buying those guys out was easy. Well, five years before the stadium happened, he wouldn't have been able to do that. So I think this last, I'd say decade, a little less than a decade, maybe eight years, the money has changed everything.

because if you think about it I'll give you a much lower level money example I got some extra food in my fridge it's kind of old some chicken some veggies let's just put the number of $50 well $50 if I'm

you know the podcast is doing pretty well the food if I don't make it tonight it goes old and I just lose that cash well if I got enough cash I don't even care just throw it away get food I'll go out and get food, I'll order in because I don't feel like making it. Well, if I'm super tight with money, I'm like, well, I'm just going to make the chicken

and veggies, right? And again, it's all money, like I always say, money's all relative. And the NFL, obviously they have, they've always had a couple really, really rich owners. But now even the poorest owners, like Mark Davis, gets a $250 million check from the league. So buying out a guy for $5, $6 million is like a pimple on an elephant's ass. It's just, it doesn't mean anything. It's nothing. You can barely see it.

It's a tiny line item for him. What week could we possibly see Daniel Jones start? June 10th, right here, all guests, week seven. That's what it feels like for just Eli Daniel Jones situation. I'm going week seven. Logged into my Insta for the first time in years to slide into the DM for three and out. Like it. What's your take on Sam Ellinger, the quarterback of Texas?

How does he translate it? translate to the NFL. Could he be a dark horse Heisman candidate? It's built like a grown man. Run likes it. Run like it. Runs. I can't even speak. Runs like it, but can sling it too. Was fourth in the nation deep ball efficiency. Yeah, a couple times I watched him down the stretch. I thought he got a lot better. I remember watching him earlier in the season. I was like, I don't know if I see it. By the end of the season, I thought he was really good. And they clearly have some wide receivers for him. I wasn't the biggest Tom Herman guy, but I got to tip my hat to him. He's a pretty damn good coach.

and they were really good toward the end of the season. I haven't, like, scouted them or watched them like I could just talk about Jake Fromm or Tua or even like Kyler last year. But he was someone by the end of the season, I thought, this guy's got a chance to be a pretty good player. And I remember earlier in his career, I wasn't that big into him. But, you know, like some young guys,

they just take a little bit of time to develop. And I'm with you. He's a good athlete, his deep ball accuracy. I don't, I mean, if you're telling me, I'll believe you. But he's got some pop in his arm. Like he just throws. I remember watching him thinking, like,

this guy's got an NFL arm. And their team is just good. Now, there's going to be some expectations this year for the first time. Like, can this team win the conference? And can Tom Herman, like, is this the year they make it in the playoffs? And when that's the case, the quarterback and the coach get a lot of pressure. So how will he handle it? And he clearly can make himself a lot of cash getting ready for,

you know, what's he going to be a junior? So, I mean, technically he could stay in school another two years, I think, because he was a sophomore. I thought he was a sophomore last year. I could be wrong. I'm not trying to talk like Sam Ellinger, like I know his complete life story out of the back of my hand, but I know this. I watched him multiple times late in the season.

I definitely watched the bowl game and he was good. What are your thoughts on the college transfer pool and how Brew McCoy treated his situation with Texas and USC? I'm a little confused by once you. you go in the transfer portal. This guy technically went in the transfer portal twice, right? Because he signed with USC, but then Cliff Kingsbury backed out. He went to Texas, and he actually went to Texas, and then he backed out and he went again.

I struggled to judge, like, 18- and 19-year-old guys with deciding to transfer and crushing them. I mean, I struggle to make decisions. I'm 34 years old. Sort of think that at 18 years old, I would know how to make a correct decision. The one thing I don't know when I was asking someone about this, is he eligible to play right away at USC? Because to me, if he is, that's a little sketchy. Like, after he does the transfer once,

he shouldn't be eligible to transfer again. Like, to me, if he has to red shirt, he's just following the rules. But if he's able to play right away for USC, and I know he claimed a hardship, wanted to be closer to home, that would get a little sketchy for me. But I really don't have that big of an issue.

Because, again, like, put yourself in those shoes. 18 years old. Everyone's kind of blowing you and telling you how great you are. Maybe you get a little homesick. I mean, I don't know about you, but most men I know when they're 18, 19, 20 years old, aren't that mature. Like, my greatest run of maturity was probably from like 21 to 24. 18, 19, I was an idiot.

So, and I just didn't know anything. So I can't totally blame this guy for wanting to transfer. I really can't. Appreciate everyone hitting me up. Middle Coff mailbag. Another week. Another podcast. Another Warriors win.

I'll see you a little later this week. Godspeed, may the peace be with you. Adios. Thanks for listening. See ya. Hey, Singles. Do you feel like a tourist in your own town? Too busy to enjoy all your city has to offer?

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Thank you.