The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Middlekauff – 3 & Out – Zeke holdout a joke; Baker's noise; Dumb coaching lists; Fangio dropping wisdom; Middlekauff Mailbag

Episode Date: July 19, 2019

Subscribe here to the 3 and Out with John Middlekauff Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/3-and-out-with-john-middlekauff/id1352730623?mt=2. In this episode, Middlekauff explains why a Zeke Elliott holdout would be a slap in Jerry Jones' face after supporting him through all his off field issues, why Baker Mayfield's noise isn't something to be concerned about, why coach ranking lists are dumb, and his thoughts some wisdom dropped by new Broncos Head Coach Vic Fangio about connecting with the fans during training camp..John answers listener questions in Middlekauff's Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to www.theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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ran out podcast, brought to you by my guy Colin Coward and his podcast network. Back again, Thursday. You know, we got, actually, I think the Denver Broncos, Arizona Cardinals reported for camp today, or maybe yesterday.

They started practicing today. I know a bunch of other teams report next week. I think in about 10 days, the majority of teams should be in pads. That, to me, sparks the beginning of training camp. is when do you put on pads? I know for me the 49ers should be in pads by like the 29th.

So I'm basically 10 days away from that. That's the way I look at it. So I'm excited. We all should be excited. A lot of people keep asking me, are we going to do a three and out fantasy football league? I'm going to have to dive and look a little more into that. But I know you guys, a lot of you guys play fantasy.

I'm not opposed to playing fantasy. I'm more of a daily fantasy guy. because of the effort and energy it takes for the entire season. But if the people want it, the people get what they want. A good show today. We got Zeke Elliott. I know Colin went off about it the other day. I have some thoughts on that.

Baker Mayfield, a long article was written about him in ESPN. And I think we need to be kind of careful the way we categorize some of the younger players. There was a coaching list that came out. and Kyle Shanahan became pretty polarizing in terms of he was way down on the list. Somehow, John Gruden was way above him. And I know Colin basically compared him to Belichick. And I just have some thoughts on coaching lists in general. Like to me, it's much easier to do a player list than a coaching list because they're not all on the same cycle.

We'll dive into that. And then I saw Vic Fangio had some great quotes about the importance of training camp, the importance of interaction with your fans. and I know I'm lucky enough in the Bay Area back when I was allowed to go to Raiders training camp they do a good job in Napa allowing fans the Niners have done have changed the last couple years

allow fans in there and when I was in Philly they no longer go to Lehigh but we used to go where C.J. McCollum the Blazers, you know, start shooting guard, went to college we would go away for three weeks and it was awesome and I do think it served

to purpose and I saw firsthand it used to be 10,000 people showing up to practice the interaction with your players and the fans to me is something the more money you make and the NFL has never made more money you know you lose touch with that type stuff and that to me the grassroots stuff always does matter and then obviously the middlecough mailbag do it every week I banged out a bunch of your guys questions earlier in the week and then I've reached out to a bunch of you guys on direct message you can always slide up in my DMs

at John Middlecoff is my Instagram handle DMs wide open ask me any question you want football or just about life or anything. And just hit me up and then we'll answer it here. But I'm going to start with Zeke. And big story, it might have been Monday that he's thinking about holding out. And my jaw almost at the floor. And it made me think, when I was younger, like, you know, probably like five to 50, I mean, until I left the house in high school.

I was not an easy kid to race. I used to get in a lot of trouble. And not like big trouble, but I used to just push the envelope. I would get grounded a lot I would just get in trouble but I was also good I got good grades played sports so I you know there's a balance to me

but I used to push my parents buttons one day karma will get me bad whenever I have children my unborn children will probably not be easy to race but I also like to play with my friends or whatever and then while I'd be in trouble I'd ask my dad yo can I go spend the night at Ryan's house

you know can I go hang out with Travis and they'd say no well you would never ask when you were in the middle of being grounded for the weekend, right? You knew you wouldn't have the option to go over to hang out with your friends. Go sleep over, go do whatever you wanted to do. Now, if you asked when you were in trouble,

usually, if you were doing everything the right way, you get to do whatever you wanted to do. And I started thinking today, or I thought this a couple days ago, because one, this should be a universal take if Ezekiel Elliott, and again, I don't want to go in too hard because we don't know what he's going to do. but the reports from

I know Charles Robinson to Yahoo clearly is pretty close must be tied in with the agent because he's known different thing about Zeke and different stuff with the Cowboys over the years and he thinks that they're at an impasse right now and he's probably going to hold out and I just

and I get that Twitter and the media tends to be very very pro player and I would imagine if you listen to me you think I'm like anti-player I'm really like I understand where Melvin Gordon's coming from Hell, I understand where clownie's coming from. I'm not going to sign the franchise tag.

I know you don't want me long term. This one bothers me, though. And this is one of those that in 2019, you watch, no one in the media I would imagine will be that critical of Zeke, and that's just wrong. Because if Zeke holds out, you don't get to hold out

when you've been in trouble with the law every single year since you've been in the NFL. And the number one guy who supported you, the number one person, was the owner of the team. The reason you're on the Cowboys was because back in the day when they were having the draft meetings,

remember a lot of people in those Cowboys draft meetings, wanted Jalian Ramsey, and you can't draft a running back at number four, and Jerry Jones said, screw that, I'm taking Zeke Elliott. And every single time that he's got in trouble,

Jerry Jones has got his back. And now, and just again after Jerry's got his back, recently of that thing that happened in Vegas, he's going to hold out in training camp. Here's the other thing. It's not like Zeke Elliott has been underpaid. When he signed his contract, when he was the number four overall pick,

he got $24.5 million guaranteed. His fifth-year option next year will pay him $9 million. So in five years, he'll have made $33.5 million. We know for a fact that Jerry Jones likes him, wants to play him, and wants him to be a part. of this team long term. This is not a clowny situation where clowny looks at Bill O'Brien and goes, I know you don't really like me as a player. One, two, I know you don't want to pay me long term. I get that. This is Zeke. This guy's been like a father figure to you. He's gone to the mat for you.

He has drafted you and he wants you to be a main part of this team for a long time. And you're going to slap him in the face and not show up to training camp after you've just been in trouble? Again, I have someone that never been in really big trouble with the law. One time I almost got in big trouble with the law. And my dad saved me. I got, you know, it was a bad deal. I mean, it's so far ago. It was my senior year in high school.

I was out super late. Usually my parents were a little older. They went to bed early. For whatever reason, he stayed up this night. I don't know why he did. And I probably should have got a DUI in front of our house. It would have been a really bad deal. My senior year in high school.

He came out, I mean, it was probably 3 o'clock in the morning. Again, by the time I left high school, I'd live life and talked to cop out of it. And I was in big, big trouble for a while. I mean, big trouble. I mean, when I just couldn't go anywhere, it sucked. But I didn't like, hey, can I go hang out at Mike's house? You know, I just kind of laid low. Like, hey, Zik, hey, bro, maybe it's time for you to lay low.

Remember two years ago you got to spend it for six games? Jerry got in a fight with the commissioner. Remember this year, when every time that it seems like you get in trouble once every three months, Jerry's always got your back, and now you're going to hold out? A complete slap into Jerry Jones' face.

If I was a Cowboys fan, I'd be borderline offended. Again, I feel like I'm going all in. I don't even know if he's going to hold out. There's a chance he doesn't hold out, because he should not hold out. I get why Melvin Gordon holds out. He's always injured, and he knows that he's going to get one comment.

contract. Well, Zeke's pretty durable, one, and two, he's been highly paid. He was the fourth overall pick. After next year, he will have made $33.5 million. And he has an owner that wants to pay him long term. But you do not get to hold out when you're in constant trouble. That's not the way this thing works. You know, you just, you can't get in trouble with the law once every other month and then and have the organization support you at every single turn and then you turn in kind of selfish and I get agents super greedy obviously the agent wants more money that's more money for his pocket but Zeke should have some self-awareness here like if you told me DAC was holding out if you told me that Dak's not showing up a training camp I'd go you know what

he's played three years at a very very low price he's the quarterback he's the quarterback And he's a good guy. He's been in zero trouble. Like, yeah, he might have a little leverage. Like, I'm sorry, Zeke. You got zero. I repeat, you could argue he's in the negative stratosphere of leverage. And honestly, buddy, in 2019, I get social media will support you because they hate the man. They hate the owner.

Always taking the advantage of the employee. Like, no one should feel sorry for Zeke here. Twitter should borderline turn on Zeke if he holds out. Because it's a joke. I mean, I mean, it really is. If social media, if he does hold out and social media is like, Zeke's in the right. I think we've officially.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

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And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming.

Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boke. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney.

My only concern is, happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals

or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Jump the Shark. And I no longer, I mean, I try to rarely now take Twitter that seriously,

but I will officially retire from ever taking anything ever said on Twitter seriously again. If the overwhelming consensus is Zeke, is Zeke's getting screwed, he's in the right, Jerry deserves to pay him more money. Because we're teeter-tottering on that right now, and I'm afraid where we're going. But this seems pretty black and white to me. You don't get to be suspended, constantly in trouble with the law, have an owner that gets in fights with the commissioner over you because he's supporting you you and then you hold out when you know you think you should make a little more money even though

you're already making a ton and have a ton more coming to you and have an owner and i'd say this for dac too while his situations differently here's the thing like if you play for belichick yeah he probably wants to get rid of you right if you play for howie the moment you slip he'll get rid of you you play for jerry and he he drafted you he not just wants you he's going to pay you Like you have the most loyal player guy I mean Sean Lee's been on the team for 25 years Sean Lee gets hurt every year Jerry loved Romo

I mean Jerry if anything is too emotional with his players Zeke take a deep breath stop having your agent and some of your friends whispered dumb nothings into your ear about how you're getting screwed you're not my man you're in a fantastic situation you should ride this thing

to a Hall of Fame career be a cowboy all-time great and Jerry's going to pay you. But my advice would be just stay out of trouble for six months and then reevaluate your status. These days, it can be hard to find and hire the right candidates for your small business.

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getting you great rates on both. It's a good idea to consider State Farm. For surprisingly great rates, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Call or go to StateFarm.com for a quote today. If you could talk to me a little bit about the process you went through, and I think it's good to not pat yourself on the back, but to put it out there so other people can kind of hear what it takes. Like, I don't know. I always look at like this. Like, what do I want? I wanted to be a WWE superstar. All right, what does it take to be a WW superstar? What are the tools I will need to give me every possible opportunity I can get? And so I took the tools of acting classes, improv classes, wrestling school, everything I possibly can. to knock on the door of WW. The people of the, everyone on that real world show would wear my t-shirts,

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The Aspiration Zero MasterCard is issued by Beneficial State Bank pursuant to license by MasterC International Incorporated. Beneficial State Bank member FDIC 2021. Terms and conditions apply. Visit Aspiration.com slash zero for more information. Let's dive into Baker Mayfield. You know, one of the more polarizing players right now in the NFL and one of the young, I think a guy that a lot of people around the NFL look like

that's going to be a franchise quarterback one day. And there was an article written in ESPN the magazine. I read it the other day. And it's something that I think about a lot. And Baker talked about, you know, obviously he has like this running thing with Colin. And he talks about interacting on social media. And I remember, I vividly remember maybe my second year with the Eagles, like 2011. Like Twitter was nowhere near what it was now.

Even Facebook. Instagram didn't even exist. And we were going to hire a guy to be an intern, and I remember us Googling him and reading his tweets. And one, I remember a negative we had on the guy would he'd be like talking about what he was doing with his buddies. And I look back on that now and think how stupid that is. Like there is a generation of people, including myself,

that just conduct our lives a little different. through social media. And I think Baker Mayfield, like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, even though he's on social media now, like for the majority of their life, it was just a lot different than a lot of these young up-and-coming quarterbacks. Like, I can tweet about Patrick Mahomes right now.

I can tweet at him. And because I'm verified, if he has the alert, it might pop up on his phone. Like, we could probably interact right now if I want to do. And that just wasn't even possible a long time ago. But I also think a lot of these players use stuff for good through social media. And I know Colin had been on a big thing forever. Like, say what you want about Peyton Manning.

And I was always a Peyton Manning fan. He's a little bit fraudulent with his a million endorsements because he endorses a ton of things that he clearly does not use in his everyday life. And you could always say one thing about Brady. He had like three endorsements. He drives a Maserati. He wears Ugs and he wears a roller. You know, Peyton's had a little bit kind of, he had a little shack to him.

The one thing is Shaq was very fun with it. Peyton acted like he was driving to Buick. Tiger used to be like that too. It's kind of fraudulent. You know, when I endorse a product, I use it. Now, part of me using is because they're paying me to use it, but I'm legitimately using it. So I'll say one thing for Baker Mayfield. He's pretty candid and transparent.

I would say the thing I appreciate him most, beside his accuracy, which is a number one skill you. after as a quarterback. But as a person, he's pretty authentic. Like, what you see is what you get. And he is going to mature. Follow him on Instagram.

Actually, follow his new wife on Instagram. I actually think that'll help him out a lot. Being married. I think one of the biggest negatives that kind of has worked against Kevin Durant, he's just a single guy. He has way too much free time that he spends on the internet.

Because Baker talked about how sometimes he uses stuff on social media for motivation. I actually don't think that's unhealthy. I think when that rules your life and dictates your moods, when you're married, that some comment on social media

is not going to control your life. But Kevin Durant, his moods are dictated by what Colin and first take and shows like that say. Where Baker Mayfield, to me there's a balance with it. And I also think,

listen, we're in a generation, every one of these quarterbacks under 30 years old, we're going to interact and see part of their life that we just didn't get to see with Tom Brady. I mean, we kind of do with Brady now because he's on Instagram. We never did with Peyton Manning. We never did with Brett Farr. We never did with the quote-unquote guys that have the quarterbackial,

as Colin would say, kind of aura to them. Like the thing with the Mayfields and the Mahomes, it's a little bit harder to be a fraud. My biggest pet peeve in life is when anyone's a fraud. fraud. When you say one thing and you do another. It's the Bobby Knight School of Thought. Do as I say, not as I do. I try to personally live my life. If I say something, I actually do that thing. I despise hypocrites. And I think a lot of these young quarterbacks, like their lives are right in front of our faces, literally, because they Instagram and tweet everything. We get to kind of just follow them,

which is cool. And I think we have to, you know, obviously the stuff on the field, and even I think Odell falls under this category. I give room for mistakes for young people. You know, especially people in their young 20s with a lot of money. I judge you when you do sloppy things when you're 28, 29, 30, 31, 32. Like you're held to a higher standard. Now, you can argue quarterbacks are held to a super high standard, and that's true.

But, you know, I would imagine, In these next couple years, newlywed guy has had now a lot of microscope on him for the last couple years, you're going to see growth in this human. It's hard, in my opinion, to be a complete slap when you're married, when you become the quarterback, because so many people depend on you, I'm actually less worried about anything off the field with Baker. Maturity, his focus. He's learned from the Duke Johnson thing.

Because when he said the comments about Duke Johnson, I crushed him here. And then a couple days later, report came out that a lot of people in the locker room came up to him. They talked it out, maybe he apologized, whatever. Like, you get room for that. He was a rookie quarterback. To me, it's like, is he going to be good enough? And that's my biggest apprehension with Baker, who I think he's going to be a good player. But everyone has already anointed him as this superstar guy.

Like, the least of my worries is him. You can clap back on Twitter. That's what Twitter's for. I got news for you. I never judge a player. Even Durant for just going back and forth with someone. I think where I do criticize and Durant takes the most heat of anyone, it dictates Durant's life.

I don't feel it dictates Baker's life. So this millennial version of just these younger players in the NBA, in the NFL, we have to judge them a little differently because of the things and the exposure that they had. The older guys never had. I mean, I had no enough people and have heard some of the stories about Joe Montana, just some of the guys on those famous Walsh teams. If word got out, people's jaw would hit the floor.

And I don't really think these guys are doing it in this generation at that level, because you can't. You can't hide from anything. So I think sometimes we overreact. I thought the article was pretty good, a little bit of a fluff piece. but again the least of my worries right now because I'm betting anytime a guy gets married or in a serious relationship I think it just matures us

because there's not a question that we're the less mature sex sometimes that just helps us out and the other thing when you're a starting quarterback you're forced into maturity so I think at the end of the day Baker's going to be fine and let's call it what it is there's a lot of pressure on him this year so fighting with people on social media I would recommend just don't even waste time with that this season because the pressure is going to be immense.

Okay, one thing that kind of made the rounds, I guess it was an article. Earlier this week from NFL.com, Elliot something, ranked every head coach in the NFL. And Colin had an interesting take about Belichick. The next Belichick is Kyle Shanahan. And I just started thinking a lot about that, just the list. You know, Belichick was won, Sean Peyton, Andy Reid, you know, McVeigh, Doug Peterson, I don't have a list in front of me. Tomlin was up there, Harbaugh.

But I just started thinking, like, to me with players, for example, it's pretty easy to go, who's the better quarterback? Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Who's the better quarterback? Who would you rather had over their career? Aaron Rogers and Big Ben. Both of them have similar length of resumes. right? Who would you rather have? Andrew Luck or Russell Wilson?

What young player would you rather have? Mahomes or Wentz? We do it all the time in the draft because they're all equals. You're both draft eligible and you're both 21 or 20 years old, right? What point guard is better? Steph Curry, Chris Paul. They're separated by a year or two and age. But when you do coaches, think about this. I don't even think we should be able to, this list is stupid. because how do you compare Matt Nagy, who again, I'm biased in love and I think it's going to be a great coach,

but to Sean Payton. Sean Payton's been a head coach now for 15 years. Andy Reid's been a head coach now for 20 years. Belichick's been a head coach now for like 25 years. Even Sean McVeigh and Doug Peterson, who again, I'm high on all these guys. Sean McVey's been a head coach for two seasons. And even Kyle, who's of all the young guys that I think we all thinks good, his two seasons have been shitty, but you could argue, like Sean McVey, let's just use this.

How can I possibly compare Sean McVey to Bill Belichick? Belichick's been coached in the NFL since 1975. He's 68 years old, and he's been a head coached the same place now for 20 plus years, and he's also coached another place for six. So he's had a combined 25 to 26 years of head coach. Sean McVeigh is a year younger than me. He's been a head coach for two years. Like, maybe we should just wait.

There should be separate tiers of coaches. The guys that have 10 plus years experience. Andy, Belichick, Sean Payton, Tomlin, Harbaugh. You can kind of compare those guys. But I can't compare Sean McVey to any of those guys. I haven't seen him have a season when his starting quarterback breaks his leg in September. Like I was thinking about this. Like, Sean McVeigh, for the most part, everything he's done.

And I think Sean McVe is good. And I think he's going to be a big-time head coach for a long period of time. But I haven't seen a curveball happen in his career yet. Like, it's October 1st and Jared Goff, Terris's ACL. Like, say what you want? Like, what the reason I know Doug's going to be pretty good? I watched Carson Wentz, Terris ACL, and him rattle off wins and get to the Super Bowl and win it. Last year, it happened again and they won a playoff game.

Even Kyle, who hasn't had any success yet as a head coach, I've watched him have no quarterback, yet keep the morale up and his team keep playing hard, then get Jimmy and then win, and then the following year, have some pre-coach. pressure on them because they thought the Niners were going to be good. Jimmy tears his ACL. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

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I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges. of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night bases on offense.

And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you finish. figure it out real quick. Oh, yeah. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Him keep his head up and then develop another young quarterback in Nick Mullen. Now again, is Kyle ever going to make the playoffs? I don't know. He's been head coach for two years. He's 38, 39, 40 years old, however old he is. We're kind of comparing apples and oranges, even though they're all head coaches. How can I possibly compare Matt?

Nagy to, I don't know, I don't know, I almost said Jim, John Harbaugh. John Harbaugh's been a head coach since like 07. Matt Nagy started coaching in 2018. Like, they don't have that much in common besides their title. So I think these lists, like when we do a player list, top 100 NFL players, unless you're a rookie, most players have played, if you're really good, between three and six years beside quarterbacks.

Like, there's somewhat, there's similarities between guys, right? You're all in relatively the same era. That's not true for coaches. Some coaches are now 35 years old. Other guys are 60. Like, Pete Carroll's been a head coach at three different places and coached at SC forever. How can I possibly compare him to like Matt LaFleur? Or Bruce Ariens is 60 whatever years old, and he's even unique.

He's only coached for five years. Now, we have a pretty good resume. He's a pretty good coach. But I just started thinking how stupid this list is. Because how do you, it's just, it's fake. And obviously all lists are. They don't have any meaning. But when I list a player, let's list our top 10 quarterbacks.

It's a legitimate argument. When I list coaches, well, what if in 10 years, what if Kyle Shanahan coached the 49ers for 10 years? And he makes the playoffs 7 out of the 10. Well, at the time when we judged him two years in, he didn't sniff the playoffs. What if it's the vice versa for Sean McVeigh? And I'm not saying this going to happen.

But what if John McVeigh doesn't make the playoffs for the next three years? We're going to view him differently. These guys sample sizes, if I wanted to take the nerd analytical look at this, like all of these guys sample sizes are all over the board. That's where even when we talk quarterbacks, like we always compared Brady to Manning. We always kind of compared Rogers to the Big Ben group, Philip Rivers. Luck is compared to Wilson.

Mahomes and all the young guys are all kind of whence. That whole group is going to be compared to each other. So with coaches, I mean, Coach Reid's over 60. Kyle Shanahan is 40. One guy's been coaching since 99. The other guy's been a head coach since 2017. It's impossible to compare them. It can't even, it's stupid.

After two years, if I was like, you know, if this was 2000, what do you think, Andy Reed? how many people are like, I don't know if he's any good. Well, obviously, you look a lot different 10 years later. And the coaching, to me, I just started thinking about, like, how good is McVeigh?

I got no clue. I mean, I think he's good. Hell, I think Kyle, I think Kyle's good. I think Matt Nagy's good. I don't think Matt LaFleur's good. I don't think Kingsbury's going to be that good. I could be wrong in like six years. They haven't even coached.

We got to see, right? I never thought Jim Harbaugh was going to be that great with of Niners, and he kicked ass. He was incredible for like four years. And even you could argue his NFL sample size is really small. Like, would Jim Harbaugh come back and be as good? I don't know. It's much easier to judge a Sean Peyton and Andy Reid and Mike Tomlin.

When they have 10 plus years of experience and a resume to go off of, well, you go, well, he has won the division six of 10 years. Yeah, that guy's pretty good. What if Harbaugh came back and never won another NFL division the next time he came back to the league? I don't know. So I think this, my main takeaway is this list is the stupidest thing I've ever read in my life. Because I really think it is impossible.

I think the only thing we know set in stone is Belichick's at number one. After that, like currently, yeah, Sean Payton and Andy Reid, they should be better than McVeigh and Naggy and all those guys. What if in, you know, what if in 10 years McVe is a three-time Super Bowl winner? What if Matt Nagy's a two-time Super Bowl winner? Just, they haven't ever coached. You know, they have so much of their career. I'm like a player who if it's like you're six for seven for Cleo Mac.

For the most part, we know Cleo Mac's an all-time great player, but you're not going to get any better, just how long can he sustain it? Like Matt and Aggie, Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan, they coach for like 30 more years. Think how young they are when they, especially McVeigh? How's Sean McVeigh not going to be a head coach for like 40 years? I mean, think about it. So I guess my main takeaway is coaching lists are the most,

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I saw something from actually a head coach and a personal favor to mine in Vic Fangio, and he said something that resonated with me. because up until I worked in the NFL, I had never been to an NFL game. My first NFL game was when I worked in the league. My first ever NFL practice is when I worked in the NFL. Most people do not get to experience this stuff. I say it all the time about ticket prices, definitely with the NBA. People got to be very careful, athletes talking down on the consumer.

I think they, when you become rich, you become very out of touch. And I think there is some elements to the NFL. they've never made more money, you know, tick from just media sales through their team website, they're just rolling in cash, an unlimited amount of cash. And if you're sitting in their seat, they've got to be thinking it's never going to stop. But as we know, trust me, I'm a Netflix stockholder. Things can change on you. But there is one thing that makes the NFL pretty special, or at least it historically has.

Most training camps, for a long period of time, training camps, used to leave the team facility and go somewhere, usually to a smaller college. I remember Bill Walsh used to take the team to Rockland in Sacramento. The Raiders go up to Napa. When I was in Philly, we went to Lehigh. And it becomes a getaway for a franchise where all your focus on football, but it also becomes a great avenue and venue for your fans to watch you play. and if anyone's ever listening to this

been to an NFL training camp you get to meet the players and especially younger people I can name like on one hand the professional athletes I met before I was 10 years old you still remember that to this day Byron Scott, Mitch Richmond Spud Webb, Muhammad Ali

Dusty Baker basketball camp I don't know, Dusty Baker was a coach of the Giants at the time but I don't even know if that counts but you remember that stuff and the one thing with training camps is nowadays all these training camps are just staying at the team facility and when you do that

when I used to go, when we in Philly go to Lehigh there would be some days I swear to God it felt like there were 15,000 people there and I know the bears go somewhere but most teams no longer do this and one thing I've been reading is a lot of teams are doing less and less

open practices because of course the coach if it's their choice is not going to do open practice you can, I mean, let's call it. Football is, it's a sketchy sport in terms of people steal stuff. So you would send, you know, some incognito scouts to steal stuff. I get it.

But I think back in the day, people didn't worry about that. And I thought Vic Fangio, when he was tipped off, I know the Broncos run open practices, he had a great comment. I'm going to read this to you. This is Vic Fangio's words. I didn't realize we had the most,

but I think we have good fans in Denver. Let me restart this. The history of the NFL, you had to go to college campuses back in the day because NFL facilities didn't look like they do now. When I first went to the Saints in the mid-80s, we had an 80-yard grass field. We had no cafeteria. Guys would go to a greasy deli for lunch across the street. So we were forced to go to small college campuses to have our two-a-day practices because they had a cafeteria, because they had classrooms, and because they had dorms to sleep in. A byproduct of that was fans could come and watch.

I think one of the things, a small thing, that has driven the NFL to become the most popular sport in the country, is that you let people in come and watch practice, people that maybe can't afford to go to a game, and maybe get an autograph from a player, maybe a player shakes their hand or throws them a wet band, a sweat band or a glove. You do that with a young person, and you got a fan for life. And football has a fan for life. there's more to be gained out of that than any advertising slogan or any commercial that you put on TV. So I think it's a good thing and all embrace it. The players will embrace it as well.

I wish there could be more of them here. But I think about half or less than NFL teams now that don't go to college campuses and don't have the wherewithal to have people at their facilities to watch practice and I think it's a little bit of a negative. And I think the one, he hit it on the head right there indirectly. And Fango's an old school guy. And listen, I am as progressive as you get in terms of social media, advertising, all that stuff.

But there is still nothing like meeting a human in person than an advertising campaign or slogan on your Instagram or following the team on Twitter. And one thing that's becoming abundantly clear is these practices, the availability at them, are only going to become less and less as we move forward. And I think he hit it another thing. the majority of people in this country

and the majority of NFL fans, let's just say 100% of the NFL fan bubble, the majority of those people will never attend an NFL game. Simply put, they can't afford it because most people don't make that much money. But you could go to a practice because a lot of times they used to be free to go to it. Maybe they cost $5, but you can't afford a $200 ticket

and to take your kid and a park. That's a $500 day. I'm no math major but if you make 50 grand that's before taxes so you actually see probably 35 $500 a lot of money to you and go to one NFL game you can't

especially if you're paying your cable bill you're just going to watch it on television and it's clear where the NFL's going because they care about the bottom line and you can't grassroots marketing like that when I when Deshawn Jackson I used to watch these guys go and these kids light up

and I see it with the 49ers the Forrest Buckner go or Raiders Derek Carr Khalil Mack. Now the Raiders are a little different because only season ticket holders. Maybe a couple days they do or it's open to anyone, but I don't know. I think it might be only season ticket holders. But regardless, that interaction when a seven-year-old who Khalil Max's your favorite player, when you get to meet that person, it changes your life. I don't even think that's hyperbole. I can't imagine when I was 10 years old if I would have got

to meet Michael Jordan or I would have got to meet Steve Young. I got to text with Steve Young Like a month ago I'm trying to get him On my other podcast With Haberman and Milkoff And he texts me back And he said

You know I'm super busy Text me a little later I'm gonna try to get him In the near future But I took a step back Like I tried to play cool I just realized Steve Young just freaking text me

I mean Do you know what Nine-year-old John Would say that you have Steve Young's phone number Like this stuff Does matter to young people because most of us become NFL fans

when we're young and we see our dad or brother like the sport, right? And we get favorite players. And for the 99% of us, we don't get ever to meet those players. Now it's a little different now, like I said earlier, with social media.

But this, everything in the NFL, and I think you've got to be careful with this, and I try to cognitively think about this in my life, because now that I kind of own some podcasts and own stuff, like money, every dollar that comes in, like I touch.

You know, it's not like I'm working for someone and they're paying, I'm working for me. So when I get money and you, I realize these NFL owners, they get money hungry because they realize they do a $100 million deal, they keep the deal, right? They do a big marketing deal, they keep the cash. And it can consume you.

And I know where on that level, but I understand, I think most people listening, if you have a sales job and you get 20% on every sale or on certain huge sales or whatever, it can consume you. You're like, damn, there's a lot of money. And it can incentivize you

where the only thing you're thinking about is cash. And listen, the NFL is a business, but I say it all the time with pro sports in general. Their business is one million percent predicated on people and the fans and the base of the people watching and consuming their product. Because that's the reason why ESPN and CBS and NBC pay so much money because of the people.

Because if you play NFL, it just, distributes people watch, just like the NBA. When the NBA starts talking crap about their fans, you realize all this money is because of people watching. It's why everyone pays a lot of money to be associated with your product. It's because you have a lot of people that follow you. It's just basic numbers. And I think the NFL has got to be careful,

and Fangio is an old school guy, but I think he's on to something. And I think the NFL is coming down a slippery slope, and we're already hearing it with the next CBA. Money, money, money, money, money, money, money. money, money, money, money. And I agree, money is the most important thing when you run a business. But you also got to be cognizant about your consumer, about the way you're treating people,

and maybe they're at the point where they're just, we're too big to fail. We're like the banks, right? You can't. Obama couldn't let the Wells Fargo or Bank of America go under, our country goes under. So they had to bail them out, right? They 100% had to bail out the banks. Like, because there was more at stake than just the banks. there was me and you, right?

And I think there's a greater good sometimes, and the less and less as these older owners get so consumed with their cash, and they've never made more. I think what made the NFL great, and what made all these sports great, you lose touch with it a little bit. And the players, and I'll say this about the players,

you put them in front of the fans, like at these training camps. To me, they thrive. Like, they're always so good with the kids, And like Vic says, you have a fan for life. The moment eight-year-old James or Billy or Matt or Mike gets to shake hands with Marcus Marriota or Carson Wentz or Aaron Donald, I can't even imagine that feeling. And that feeling is just dying more every year in the NFL. Yeah, they can follow him on Twitter or Instagram.

But there's something like when you get to shake the guy's hand or, hell, just even see him in person. where a lot of these people will never attend an NFL game. Okay, let's get to the Middilkoff mailbag. And where I answer your questions, you guys slide up in those DMs, at John Middilcoff's my instant handle, and then I'll fire right here. Die Hard Packer fan, John.

I know you don't think LaFleur will be a good coach for the pack, but do you think there is any chance that they will be a 9-10 win playoff team? Certainly the defense has gotten a lot better, and with Rogers, anything can happen. I'll say this. I don't not like the Packers roster. I think that, like you said, defensively, Mike Petten has been a very good defensive coordinator in this league.

They've drafted defensive players the last several years. They had a good offseason of signing some defensive players, pass rushers. That young quarterback, Jaira Alexander, looks like he's got a chance to be a star. And when he's on, Aaron Rogers is special. The thing I keep coming back to, though, is Rogers going to like and respect the head coach? and I just have a hard time seeing that.

I really do. But if the Arizona Cardinals won nine games, I'd be floored. You know, I'm trying to think, if the Bengals won nine games, I'd be floored. If the Packers won nine games, I would not be floored. Now, I would have just been wrong on the floor. Now, I'm judging him based off what I know about them from people in the league and its press conference, so I'm not claiming that I have like some hard evidence. it's kind of a gut-feeling, educated guess,

and then just already seeing some weird stuff happen with him and Aaron. But they've won the majority of my lifetime. Once Ron Wolf and Holmgren got there, they've been kicking ass since 92. I mean, how many losing seasons have they had since 92? Packer fans, I mean, you know that number. Not many. You know, even like what McCarthy asked,

or I remember we said it two years ago when they went eight and eight, they asked them like, you know, the team still play hard. or whatever, do you hold your head high? He said, no, we're the Green Bay Packers. I know McCarthy's kind of been shit on a lot the last couple of years, but it's right, they're the Green Bay Packers. In my lifetime, when I think the Green Bay Packers,

I think Favre, Rogers, and I think winning. Maybe not that many Super Bowls. Obviously, they've only won two Super Bowls over that run, which is kind of crazy. You know what's pretty nuts? Is you go from Tharv to Rogers, you think, like, God, they could have won, like, four or five Super Bowls.

And now you could say the same thing about the Colts. Like, God, you have Peyton Manning, and now you have Andrew Luck, You got to have one Super Bowl to show for it. You got to take advantage when you have good quarterbacks. You know, even Big Ben, they've won a couple, right? Obviously, Brady's the best case, but you get a good quarterback. Like, you got Mahomes?

You want to win like two or three. Huge Colts fan and would love to know on the Middilcoff mailbag. How many Super Bowls you believe Peyton Manning would have been if he had Belichick on the, if he would have been with Belichick in the past the whole time? Good little segue here. you know, I think he would have had just as many as Brady. They would have won 01. He was a better player earlier.

They would have dominated 01, 02, 03, 04. Their defense was so good. And Manning was incredible back in 2000s. Now, the one question would be, like, one big, you know, difference between the two quarterbacks is Brady's a much better outside quarterback. He's just got a much better arm. You know, he throws with more velocity.

Well, when it's 10 degrees outside and the wind chill factor and you can't feel your hands, the arm strength kind of matters. That's why I'll take my chances with Farr or Mahomes or Brady or big, young, big Ben in his prime, even those couple years when Eli got hot. I mean, think about the games Eli won, on the road against Green Bay, coming to San Francisco in that rainstorm, you know, in that game. It matters. So I'd say about, you know, about as many as Brady, five or six. Because don't ever forget, Peyton Manning was so much better than Brady early on.

Now, Brady flipped the switch in like 07, and he became Peyton-like. So, yeah, I'd say five. In 2016, Marriota had his healthiest year and threw for 3,400 yards, 28 touchdowns, and nine picks, with a 95.6 quarterback rating, with Delaney Walker as his only weapon. Do you think, with the defense continuing to get better, and the weapons he has now, Corey Davis, Derek Henry, Walker, who's Walker? Adam Humphreys, rookie A.J. Brown.

Is Delaney? I know he had a bad injury last year. I wonder if he's healthy right now. I guess we'll find out when they show up training camp. If he's able to return and stay healthy, the Titans can be a serious contender, I think the Titans are going to be good. I can't believe so many people are poo-pooing the Titans. They made the playoffs two years ago.

They won a road playoff game. Last year, Marriota got hurt, week whatever, 16. They had a win or get in. in-game week 17. Now, part of that was because the Colts started 0-and-5. Titans are just good. Like you said, they play good defense, they run the ball, and if Marriota's, if they're passing game's productive, they're a playoff team. If you tell me the Tennessee Titans throw for 35 touchdowns, and that would be Marriota, or Tanyhill, I'd say, yeah, they're a playoff team. They're just a

well-run operation. So yeah, I think they are, for whatever reason, they fly under the radar, because everyone's blowing the Colts, and rightfully so, they've earned it. The Texans have all these sexy players, Hopkins, Deshawn, Clowny. They're just, you know, I was going to say Honey Badger, but he's gone now. Who else am I missing on that team? Will Fuller, you know, runs like a 3-840. But, yeah, I mean, who's to say the Texans are better than Titans?

49ers fan from Glasgow, Scotland. Oh, wow, sounds cool. Never been there, obviously, because I've never been to Scotland. Wanted to know your opinions on the Niners, possibly investing too much into players who may be fragile this season. Dee Ford, Kwan Alexander, Jason Verrett, have all injury issues, Jimmy G, McKinnon coming back from ACLs, Nick Bosa,

he's already been hurt. Do you think the 49ers season may depend too much on these players stepping up and remaining healthy, and if they don't, do you see the Niners being the next year top of the draft? Well, the Niners have had most injuries I've ever witnessed in a two-year stretch. It's just insane. Now, I saw some rating, like the amount of actual guys that have been hurt,

rank like 24th and I think last year was 29th so they've been up near the league lead but you could say that about most teams I'd say the difference I'd say the Eagles and the 49ers the number one question both of them are paying their quarterbacks huge money can their guys stay on the field now at least carson wents has played carson wins played way more football than jimmy like can jimmy g play 16 games because as I sit here and record this podcast 550 on july 18th I don't know how how I can say with a straight face, yeah, I'm confident he'll play 16 games. He's literally played 10 and been injured in two of them.

And the injuries, one broke his shoulder, or dislocated his shoulder, and the other one, he tore his ACL. It's not like he rolls his ankle or dislocates a pinky. He has major injuries. So they're depending on Nick Bosa, who I wasn't that big of a fan on, but people in the league try to talk to me into him.

Okay, I'll even give him a chance. The first practice I went to this spring, I go, oh yeah, the Niners got a couple new defensive line. I walk all the way around the practice field. I go watch the defensive lineman within two reps of just basic, you know, football on a stick, as Rich Heisen always talks about, football on a stick. You just move that football and the guys just get off. This one, they actually had a drill like the offensive lineman was standing there.

You had to go around them. But again, no pads, just like three steps worth a drill. And he pulled his hamstring. I mean, it was like clockwork. I jump middle cough, I walk around the field, I didn't mean to go third person there. And I'm standing there and I look and then all of a sudden he starts limping. And no one really noticed. I remember Matt Mayocoe, I'm sure many of you guys follow him on Twitter.

He's like the Niners main beat guy on Twitter. And I go, man, I think he's hurt. And no one's really paying attention. And then you see him limping around, limping around, and then he just never goes back into practice. And that was it for his OTAs. So yeah, I think there are injuries or a major question mark. I know everyone talks about there being no parity with Clemson and Bama always winning. I know the Pac-12 is widely considered the weakest conference, but I think this is Oregon's best shots in 2014.

They're returning Justin Herbert, an offensive line with the most combined starts, I think, question mark. Well, if you're going to go, I'm going to assume you're right. A beast Penn Statewide receiver transfer and a bevy of four-and-five-star recruits, including the number one guy. Can they win a playoff game or two things? Yeah, they had a big time recruiting class. I know they've nailed some J.C. recruits the last couple years, like five-star guys. To me, they have a quarterback that could be the number one pick in the draft. Like you said, the conference is down, but here's the thing.

The South conference is down. SC sucks. UCLA is terrible. Arizona's not any good. Arizona State is like competitive, but they're only a six or seven win team. Utah's good. And Colorado sucks. The North actually.

is not bad. Stanford's just, I mean Stanford. Cal actually is a well-coached, tough operation. Oregon State stinks, but obviously this team, Oregon, is good. And then the two Washington schools are Chris Peterson is one of the best coaches in the country, and Mike Leach has that thing humming at Washington State. And you open at Auburn. So in theory, yeah, I mean, the talent is there. You have a star quarterback. Like you said, I don't know much about this Penn Statewide receiver. Now you kind of pique my interest. I might Google on. after I finished recording this podcast. Auburn's a must win.

If you're going to make the playoffs, you have to win that game. And then you've got to take care of business, but just winning in your division, because it's a conference, but then they split the division, it's hard. I have to look at their schedule, but regardless of where you play Stanford or Washington or Washington State, like, there's no guarantee that they're winning those games.

It's just difficult to win those games. And I think when you look at their coach, you go, do they have a guy that's good enough? And, you know, you wouldn't rank, you know, at best he'd be the fourth best coach in the division. Because Chris Peterson, I'd put, Chris Peterson, Dave Shaw, and Mike Leach, you could rank any order one, through three, and I'd listen. But those three guys are just better than Mario Cristobal. And I'm a big believer. I don't love coaches that aren't from the area coaching the program.

Now I get he's a good recruiter, and I get when Willie Tagger left, had to keep him and he's killed in recruiting. Now they have a talented team. But you know what? People like me, he can shut me up. Go 12 and 0. Because if you gave Chris Peterson this roster, I'd say, yeah, they'd be 12 and 0. I've seen David Shaw go 11 and 1 with way less talent. So just win.

Like this is a, and the one thing, if you're an Oregon fan, you go, you've seen your team with good coaches. You guys kick ass. Bellotti for years. Won a lot of games. Chip Kelly came and took him to another level. Talent got the job done. That's what was kind of hard with Hellford.

You're like, God, our team should be better. And the one year they were good. But this season, it's like, okay, Mario, no excuse. You get Auburn who's kind of sneaky down, and that win might look better than it actually is. But you can't lose that game. You cannot lose that game. And then you've got to take care of business and conference.

I'm not confident in Oregon at all. That's pretty clear, I guess, if you're listening to this. But they're definitely talented team. And, I mean, the quarterback, if he can take a big, step and like you said they always have skill guys physically up front on defense they should be good but just can they coach can they out coach mike leach chris peterson davidshaw because if they do outcoach gus mouse on and week one you know in football in general whether it's college or the nflb when i say college like obviously if it's if you're oregon and you're playing uc davis you should kick their

ass but any of the power five you know if Alabama plays iowa you know or oregon plays oburn or Stanford plays North Carolina. Anything can happen week one. So you take care of business and then win the conference. Where do you rank leadership and clutchness compared to accuracy and throwing strength in the ranking of characteristics needed to be possessed by a quarterback? Arguing with friends and they love Rogers and I love Brady.

I think there's nothing more important than leadership. Am I wrong? Well, you're wrong in the sense that once you get to the NFL, you have the baseline talent, right? You have the good enough arm, you have the size, you have the ability once you become a starting quarterback. So like Rogers to Jimmy G., to Brady, to James. Like all these guys have the baseline talent to get drafted,

start in the league, beat out whoever their competitions, and be a starting quarterback. Then where you're not wrong is once you're the starter, and that's where we're saying, like nitpicking Rogers' mobility compared to Brady, like yeah, to me, all Brady's teammates level. Brady's ability to be a team first guy 24-7, 365, separates him from Rogers.

Like Brady never has issues with coaches. Now I think the counter, if Aaron Rogers was listening, he'd go, well, Brady's had much smarter coaches than me. I've had Meathead McCarthy, and now I got torn Achilles LaFleur. But I think what separates Brady and Rogers is I think at the end of the day, Brady's just a better guy.

You know, he just, and when I say a better guy, it's just easier to get along with. One thing's pretty clear. Aaron Rogers doesn't get along with that many people, very easily. And at quarterback, you are dependent on everyone. You're dependent on the five guys blocking for you. You're depending on the guy you're handing off to running it for you. You're dependent on the receivers doing the right thing for you. You're dependent on your offensive coordinator working together with you.

Like, it's a dependent position even though you're quote unquote technically in control. And I think at the end of the day, in my lifetime, If I had to rank top five teammates of all time, Brady would be one. I'd put Brady and Tim Duncan one two, one A, one B. You know who else is right there? Steph Curry. Steph Curry, his greatest strength besides his three-point shooting is how much guys like playing with him, whether you're an undrafted free agent or you're a star player.

And he even makes an effort, even when you don't, whatever reason, like don't even like him that much or resent him. He flew from China all the way out to New York, even though he knew Kevin Durant was probably going to leave. He's just a high-level good teammate. Steve Nash, elite teammate. You know, I think that's a separating factor of some of the guys like Ben. Has Ben kind of a questionable teammate? You know? Say what you want about Eli Manning?

It does feel like players kind of like Eli. Even though he sucks a little down. Guys always like Eli. People like Philip Rivers. You know, people need to like you at quarterback. And it's easy to be an arrogant kind of asshole because you're the richest. you're getting all the women, you're getting all the publicity. Like, it's hard to kind of stay humble.

And I think one difference is that that's not really allowed in New England. Because Belichick kind of yells at them all. And it keeps everyone, so I give Brady credit. Brady allows Belichick to yell at him. Just like if you ever read about Popovich and Duncan, Duncan allowed Popovich to coach him. Because he knew then it kind of rolled downhill. I don't think Rogers allows that.

So, yeah, I think the same thing. separating factor of the two is the leadership is it separates all the guys at the highest level. Now, it might be overblown. I don't think Rogers is like a terrible leader, but he clearly is a little flawed for sure. I mean,

Brady all day. I mean, people love like the Chris Sims of the world act like Aaron Rogers is the greatest player ever. Part of being a elite elite quarterback, even more, like you don't have to be a great like Kobe Bryant was a terrible leader, but he was a top 10 player

of all time. Like, Rogers, part of being a quarterback, you have to lead a little bit, you know, and clearly that's an issue that some of his teammates have with him. Appreciate everyone listening. When I come back, I guess it will be July 22nd or 23rd. The next time we talk, we're going to have a lot of training camps up and running, you know, and probably my end of the week podcast, well, practice is going. So we're getting to that time.

Football is back. Three and out podcast. Never left. Let's keep rolling. Talk to you soon. Three and out podcast. Me, John Middlcoff, tell your friends, Colin Coward, podcast network. Appreciate y'all and have a good weekend. See you. If you work in IT, you'll want to check out Changemakers, a podcast, profiling IT industry leaders. We dive deep into IT profiles and learn what it takes to drive large-scale IT transformations for successful businesses.

Visit Changemakers.freshworks.com. If you work in IT, you'll want to check out Changemakers, a podcast, profiling IT industry leaders. We dive deep into IT profiles and learn what it takes to drive large-scale IT transformations for successful businesses. Visit changemakers.freshworks.com. Hey, Singles, do you feel like a tourist in your own town? Too busy to enjoy all your city has to offer? Events and Adventures organizes up to 30 unique get-togethers around town each and every month. We do all the work, so you have all the fun. On your schedule, visit places you didn't even know were places, and get to know the fellow singles you did.

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