The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Nerd Sesh - Rockets more dangerous than Warriors? Lakers or Suns more disappointing?

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

The nerds discuss whether or not Jalen Green, Amen Thompson & the Houston Rockets are more dangerous than Steph Curry & the Golden State Warriors headed into the play-in. Then, they discuss whether they would most like to build around Green, Cade Cunningham or Evan Mobley, which NBA team has disappointed them most between the Los Angeles Lakers & Phoenix Suns, and why the notion that UCONN could compete with any NBA team is foolish. Timestamps 00:00:34 - Are the Rockets more dangerous than the Warriors? 00:25:32 - Would you rather build around Cade, Green, or Mobley? 00:39:20 - Who has been the most disappointing team this season? 01:04:34 - Who will end up with the #1 seed in the West and how much does that matter? 01:10:41 - Could UConn defeat an NBA team? #Volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Oh, don't get it. Charles Darwin. The nerds is where it's at. Welcome everybody back into NerdSash. As always, I'm Carson Brevard. And alongside me is Logan Kansin. and the NBA playoffs are officially in sight, Logan. And as we close in on the start date,

there is a very interesting thing happening out west in the play in race. That being that the Houston Rockets have won 10 straight games. And we talked about them last week and when they had won five straight. And we said, oh, how fun, how bright is their future. But the future is kind of now with the way that they are surging. And the Golden State Warriors are the big dog whose heels they are nipping at. Just a game separate. separates those two for the 10 seed. So, Logan, do you think the Rockets are a more dangerous

team right now than the Warriors? I think they are, Carson. I think the Rockets are more dangerous than the dubs. Like you said, they're 10 and 0 in their last 10 games. They have not lost. They're averaging the most points per game in the NBA over that time. The fourth most three pointers made over that time span. They're tied seventh in three point percentage. And they're averaging the sixth most rebounds per game and steals per game. over that time span, their number two in offensive rating, they're tied sixth and defensive rating, and they're number three in that rating. And the real superstar of this 10-game run has been Jalen Green.

I mean, wow. Dude, he just looks like a superstar score. It is, it's absurd. You know, we knew what Jalen was capable of when he came out of the draft, but seeing it realized is, it's sick. 37 and 4 over these 10-game span, 51, 46, 70s,000. 69 65 splits. He just glides through the lane, man. He's, he looks like I compared him, I call Brandon Miller, Butter Smooth, Brandon Miller, dude. Jalen Green looks like the silver surfer Carson. He just, nice. He glides, man. It's crazy how he moves. The change in pace, the space

creation we're seeing from him, the separation. The one stepback move he has, man, it's crazy how much space he creates. The way he gets his leg angle, Like he turns it and it looks like he's going to turn the corner on you. That's what makes Jaylen so hard to guard, man. Like his burst, his acceleration, like it looks like he's going to get to top speed. And then he can just slam on the brakes. Boom, step back. It's crazy, man.

The footwork, like, and it looks like Jalen Green is coming to his own. Like, I think this is something that, like, maybe not 37 and 4 this efficiently, consistently, but, you know, I think 25 efficiently, I think is very doable for Jay Lynn consistently. And what I think the Rockets have really figured out, man, with this lineup, you know, Sin Goons missed eight of these 10 games. This small ball five lineup dude with a men Thompson at the five, it's really effective. And I think it's something that they can turn to in the future. Now, I don't like the discourse that's going on here about, you know, the Rocket should train Sengoon or

Sengoon's a problem here. I think that discourse is kind of dumb. I think Sengoon and Green together is what really gives the rockets a crazy high ceiling in the future. But I do think it's something that they can turn to in spots. The floor is just so much more spread out. They play so fast. And that's why I think the rockets are effectively more dangerous than the Warriors. The Warriors are, one, they're small and they're not super physical and athletic. The rockets are fast, they are, they jump out the building, they get up and down the floor. Two, I think they have more offensive punch because they're not just solely reliant on one guy like Steph Curry. We'll have Jalen Green. They will have Sen Goon. Like, they've got multiple guys they can run through.

Yeah, that's kind of the crux of this. I think they have a higher athletic and defensive ceiling with these young, you know, bullets they got on this team, man, they just fly around the court. And I think they've got a higher offensive ceiling because of they've got multiple guys that can do it. It's really just Steph in Golden State, man. And with the way Jaylen Green has been playing, you know, we can talk about the consistency of guys' games. He's clearly just in a rhythm right now. It is a, it just, you know, it's, it's just something that happens with athletes. When your shots fall in, it just looks easy.

The rim looks huge. And during this run, he's heading missed. I mean, it's insane. We've never seen the sufficiency from Jaylen. Green. And when he's shooting from behind the arc at this clip, he's super dangerous. And that's really the thing, right? It's like baseball teams when it comes down into the home stretch, who's playing the best baseball when it comes playoff time? Same concept here. Jalen Green has hit his stride at the exact right time and so is this team. Yeah, man, just because they're hot, I would not want to run

into the Rockets. And I think it's a real chance that they creep in here and are going to be a tough play-in team, dude. I would much rather, and just with the drama in Golden State, too, man. I know they beat the magic the other night, but with Draymond blowing his top, man, there just seems like a little bit of dissension, a little bit of drama

over there. Houston's clicking, and that's a huge component for me, man. Big credit to Adoka, big credit to Jalen Green, big credit to a men Thompson stepping up playing big minutes and doing his thing. The Rockets are a ton of fun, man, but they're a damn good team, and I think they are more dangerous.

than the Warriors. The biggest thing is that athletic floor, dude. The Warriors just can't compete in the physicality and the athletic department the way I think the Rockets can against teams. I love what Houston is doing right now. I do not think they're more dangerous than the Warriors, but I want to give props to where they are excelling because what they are doing with these small ball looks, it's really firing me up, man. I mean, it is really fun to watch. They have so many perimeter hounds defensively. They just have guys. who are going to make you uncomfortable. And they have these very stout, low center of gravity kind of guys

who can bounce you off your spots, really play physically at the point of attack. Dylan Brooks, obviously, a J. Sean Tate. Fred Van Vleet is a smaller guard, but he's very stout, and he's a pest at the point of attack. But then they also have these very agile hyper athletes, Amen Thompson, obviously. Jabari Smith is a guy with really good length and range

who moves very well in space for his size being like 610. and so they can apply ball pressure, their rotations are sharp, their closeouts are high effort, that's another thing. This is just a very connected, dialed in defense. I mean, I'm watching Uncle Jeff Green with just a big old bald patch on his head, bust his ass to get out to shooters right now. That is the mentality this team is playing with. And so the vibes are excellent in Houston. This is a team that believes they can make some noise and is making a playoff push in large part on the back of that effort and that commitment to the defensive end of the floor. Over this stretch, sent Schengun went out these last eight games.

They are contesting the most shots in the league. Their third and loose balls recovered, just very high effort, hustle-based team. Their top ten in steals, blocks, and deflections. But they've also unlocked, as you mentioned, this pace and space feel offensively, where they're making over 15 threes a night on 38% from deep. They're third in pace. And we have seen Amen Thompson thrive in that environment where you are pushing the tempo in the open floor. The guy is just a problem.

He really might be the best athlete in the league today. And what he is doing on the glass and what Jabari Smith is doing on the glass, even Jalen Green has been rebounding above his means, has been huge to this team surviving with these smaller looks because you would think, yes, they're athletic. and they have some dudes with solid height in that front court, but this is still a small ball look, and they're a relatively slight team in the front court, and they're probably going to get bullied on the glass, but their third in rebound rate sent Schengoon went down.

So they are athletic, they're skilled, and they have dogs. A men over his last date is averaging 16, 9, and 3 on 64% true shooting. I'm in love with the man's game. I am so high on a men Thompson. I do think he is the crown jewel for this franchise long term. But Jalen Green is balling out of control, man. You mentioned just the unbelievable volume and efficiency as a score, specifically over these last seven games when he has just gone nuclear.

He is making 49% of his triples on over 11 attempts per game and also shooting 58% inside the arc. So yes, he is having this sort of unbelievable, unconscious shot making run that we've never really seen from him at this level. But he also is doing a phenomenal job. of creating high quality looks in the paint and around the rim. And he just has a devastating combination of quickness, dynamic ball handling, the ability to just cross left to right and he is by you, the hesitations,

the ability to split double teams, and then this incredible body control around the rim where he can maneuver around rim protectors midair and have these phenomenal circus finishes. And then you mentioned how much space he can create on those stepbacks. when he's just making all of his pull-up and step-back threes, he is an incredibly gifted score. And I was so confident in Jalen Green as a prospect. My thought was like, this guy is at least going to be Zach Levine because he is too athletic, he is too skilled as a ball handler,

his shock creation bag is too deep, and then he is too good a pure shooter to not be able to give you 25 a night on solid efficiency. At least the question is going to be how he rounds out the peripheral aspects of game, the playmaking, the defense, and yet he hasn't been as effective as a score as I anticipated up to this point, but right now he's playing out of his mind. So all of that is phenomenal from Houston. The reasons I still prefer the Warriors. Number one, they have Steph Curry. They just have the best player on the floor by a mile. Number two, I just raved about Jalen Green. He's playing

awesome as of late, but I do think for the Rockets to be a legitimately high-end offensive team, they are very reliant on this superhero version of Jalen Green that I'm not sure we should expect him to sustain. Like what he's doing is unconscious for the last seven games, he's 34 points per game on 68% true shooting. This is a guy who for most of this year has been erratic and inefficient as a score. So I just don't like their formula being that directly tied to Jalen Green being this level of an offensive force. And I do think the Warrior's second unit is significantly better. I significantly prefer what they have with CP3 running operation. We've talked so much about the quality of the young guys on this team in terms of the depth stepping up.

That rocket's second unit gets just a little bit shaky. I mentioned Jeff Green, shout out to him, Aaron Holliday. I don't love Jock Landale minutes. Like, I very much like this athletic defensively dialed in starting five with the rockets, but I think the Warriors have a big edge in terms of the second unit. And fundamentally, I just trust Golden State's prime. process more. I trust their maturity. I trust their veteran leadership and their poise in these situations. They have so many dudes who are so battle tested and proven. And with the Rockets, it's like,

all right, well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Jalen Green just shoots five of 19 in one of these games. It wouldn't surprise me at all if instead of knocking down his first two big time threes of overtime like Dylan Brooks did the other night, he goes four of 17 and he shoots you out of a game. there's just too many question marks and they don't have that sort of reliable offensive formula that I can buy into. I get that they're more athletic and the vibes are better and they're scrappier and hungrier than the Warriors right now. But I can't really turn down the formula of Steph if it were to come down to a one-game

scenario between these two, which won't happen because they're battling for the 10 seed or just when you're looking at who could make another team uncomfortable in the play-in or even have a competitive playoff series. I'm going to bet on the more veteran team with by far the best player on the floor. I understand that, but I do think the Rockets kind of cause matchup problems for every team that they would hypothetically run into in the play in except for L.A.

And the reason I say that is I just don't know if there's any point of attack guards that can really stay in front of Jalen Green or like a men Thompson. I think that that's the thing about Houston is when a men or Jalen Green gets downhill, it creates such a nightmarish advantage for these guys because when they touch the paint, they're just like these are elite guys that attack in closeouts. They're such supreme athletes when they get an advantage created for them. It's just super hard to stay in front of them.

Like I think in a hypothetical, and again, I might take Phoenix in a matchup like that. I think it's just hard to bet against guys like D.Book, guys like KD. That's why a match up against Golden State would be hard. But there's no guys that can really, I think, challenge. these guys at the point of attack. Like they just have crazy burst and I don't know Carson that's the question that I keep coming back to with these older battle-tested teams. Rockets got fresh legs man. You know what I mean? Like I don't know if that component ever comes into like they're just so freaking athletic. It's crazy.

They are. Watching the right. It's absurd. I've never I don't know if I've ever seen the team that like moves like this. They're just fast man. The tempo is insane and I also I just want to give a big shout out man I think Boston had to cut Imaudoka loose and I think it may come back to bite him on the ass long term because I think he is one hell of a coach I'm I'm really impressed what he has done with this young group just culture wise man this is a really young team and I mean just think back to last year what the collective thought around the Rockets was it's yeah this is a young lost team Jalen Green looks like

You know, he's not playing. That's what's really impressed me about Jaylin's improvement, too, is he looked, you know, just unprepared. He looked like he didn't know how to lead a team, lead an offense. And it was, oh, yeah, man, I'm just going to put up this tough shot. It's, there's a process. There is a, there's a method to the madness now with Jayland Ring where it's not just, I'm putting up a tough mid-range jumper because I want to put one up. There's, I'm going to, there's a method.

You know, you can see it with Jalen Green in these games. There's a calculation. There is a, it's different. You know, Jalen Green looks like a different basketball player than he did last year. And this team looks, like you said, you dialed in. Like I just, I love the culture. I love the vibes. I love everything that Houston's doing right now.

And I think there is a, there's credence to rhythm in sports, man. And the Rockets have hit their groove. Like you said, I don't know when that pothole is coming. I can see it. It's on the horizon. If it's Dylan Brooks, if it's Van Vleet, if it's Jalen Green shooting them out of a game. That game is looming, but they're a ton of fun, man. And it is just really impressive, this dramatic one-season turnaround that I didn't see coming from Houston at all.

I knew they were talented. I anticipated these guys getting better marginally, but they have come together as a collective unit. And all these young guys have improved, and they're playing together. It's super impressive to see from such a young team that looked really lost last year. They did. They felt like the AAU ball of the league, like a team of these talented young, very high draft picks, but who were sort of isolated in their process. And the commitment that this team has had to the defensive end of the floor all year is very

rare for a young team. What you get from a Jabari Smith, what you get from an Amen Thompson is extremely impressive. Tari Yason has been out for most of this year. That's another young guy who like when he's out there as a dog defensively. By the way, in this recent stretch, Cam Whitmore hasn't been out there for the Rockets, who has shown a lot of promise this year and is another freak athlete. So what EMA has done with this culture, this sort of one-year turnaround,

is extremely impressive. And I thought we would see steps in the right direction, but I was not this optimistic about the Rockets. And when the bottom sort of fell out in the mid-stretch of the year, after they had that hot start and then it got to the point, it's like, okay, they're comfortably below 500. They're competitive, but like they're clearly a tier below the play-in teams. That was my expectation.

And this surge has been extremely impressive to see from them. In the offseason, a lot of people mocked the signings of Van Vleet and Dylan Brooks. And I didn't love those signings. I understood, okay, you have to fill cap space. Ultimately, every team has to get to 90% of the cap, and you have a bunch of young players. So you're going to have to overpay some guys. who culturally you like,

who you think are going to bring some value in terms of leadership and changing the team's identity. And Fred Van Vleet and Dylan Brooks might not be worthy of their contracts in a vacuum, but I do think that they have provided that value to the team this year. So shout out to Houston. You touched a little bit on the whole like better without Shengun narrative, or specifically Jalen Green has been held back by Shangoon and now he is thriving. Specifically on that point,

the reality is Jalen is having more opportunities and touches right now and he is absolutely killing it. He is also just making shots that he hasn't made nearly at this clip all year. And you talk about the process being different with him. And I do think Jalen is a little bit more mature. I think also you see that with his playmaking. Some of the stuff he was doing down the stretch against O KC, hitting pocket passes. They're running these guard on guard screens with Dylan Brooks and two guys stay with Jalen and he's whipping these hook passes over the top to Dylan Brooks. He is making better decisions. He also still takes a lot of really tough shots. In all year he has taken a lot of really tough shots. And that's why he's had a lot of these

erratic, really off shooting nights. And on the whole, has still been a very low efficiency score, 54% true shooting, who isn't doing a bunch to impact the game in other ways. He's on a phenomenal heater right now and I'm super excited by what we're seeing because this is the score I envisioned being. I just don't want to overwrite the entire history of Jalen Green. And Shangoon is not in my favorite archetype for a star player because

average efficiency, offensive hub big, who's going to be a mediocre defender, it's not an ideal guy to have certainly as the best player on your team. I think best case scenario, that kind of guy can be a second star for you. But I still think clearly

he has brought a bunch of stability to this team offensively. I still think He's a very skilled post scorer, a uniquely gifted passing big. And he's been competitive defensively. It's not like he has been single-handedly holding them back there. The reality is Jalen is just playing way better. And I think you can say that those two need to figure things out more in terms of synergy and fit and maybe how they can make the most of their

complementary skill sets there. But I don't put it on Shangoon and say he's holding Jalen Green back. Do you think Sengun? slows them down at all or clogs up the lane. Well, I do think that he slows them down. Clearly, they've been playing at a much faster pace without him. And it's fun to see them as athletic as they are getting out in space frequently. In terms of spacing, obviously you're not playing five out with him.

At the same time, a men is going to be hanging around the dunker spot a lot anyways. Like he's not a floor spacer. And you can thrive offensively with an interior. based big if that guy is a legit star level player. The one thing that I would like to see from Shengun, they could separate him from, say, a Demont to Subonus of the world, who by the way right now is a much more efficient player offensively, but it would be that legitimate floor spacing.

Like that's what we still haven't seen from Shangoon, the ability to step out beyond the arc and consistently for mid-range and punish teams there. That would make me higher on his prospects overall. I completely agree. And I mean, that's the thing with Subonis, too. Like, you can run all these actions. And Sabonis is a really smart playmaker. He's just a smart basketball player. Like he knows how to create advantages for teammates, what actions to run. But that's the ultimate limiter is that even in those actions, right, like the big can drop all the way down, no matter where you're running that handoff, wherever you're running that screen. And the same goes for Sen Goon, too. So let me ask you this, because I think it is an important question. I think it's an important discussion to have then. I mean, So you don't think the Rockets are better without Sengoon? No, I do not. And neither do I.

I just, it is interesting to look at how much they benefit. You're right. Jalen Green has been the, you know, at the forefront of this. And if Jalen Green has a dud game, the Rockets just aren't going to win. I mean, that's just the bottom line. Like, if he doesn't go insane and berserk, they're not going to win. But I don't know. I do wonder if this uptempo, you know, flying around the court,

I wonder if it benefits this team more, if it just fits their identity and their play style and how they want to play more. Yeah, I do also think, though, Logan, we have to consider sample size with all of this. And it is definitely fun what they're doing in terms of small ball right now, but I do think there are certain teams

that would be able to punish and bully them for these sort of LA would eat on them. The Lakers would absolutely dominate on the interior. Obviously, the Nuggets, nobody has an answer, but this would be an obvious advantage for them. Although it's not like with Schengun at the 5, they would have answers. But Minnesota, I think, would have an overwhelming advantage. Like, the reality is, Houston has beaten up on a lot of not-so-good teams in this stretch.

And shout-out to them for beating Cleveland and Sacramento. OK, see, that was a good win, but obviously that team is without SGA. And then other than that, it's Portland a couple times. It's the Spurs. It's Washington twice. like Utah, who is in full on tank mode right now, they have been taking care of some of the bottom feeders. So I wouldn't look at this small ball lineup and be like, oh yeah, you're going to be able to run that for a full 82 because I think ultimately long term, they would get punished

on the glass. There would be size issues with that lineup. I mean, that's the most encouraging thing, though, is that they have two different looks that they can throw at teams in different settings. For sure. That's the biggest thing about basketball. And the things I think is a big misconception is it's not just a talent game, it's not just a skill game, it's a matchup game, right? One matchup change, one variable change in a lineup, one defensive change. Like you say, hey, man, you take this assignment, I'm going to take your guy. Those little chess match moves make all the difference in a game of basketball. And that's why I think against the, a plotting big, even against check, like you talk about

that OKC game, when they're running that five out, I thought that was the biggest advantage of having that small ball lineup out there was because if you're sticking them in the corner, you isolate Jalen at the top of the key, you give him a high screen. Well, guess what? You not only have given Jalen a head of steam going downhill, there's no paint big man because there's nobody down there, which means instead of Chet sliding over from the left block, or maybe the middle baseline of the weak side corner, chat has to go all the way from the left corner back to the basket. It just opens up the entirety of the floor, and it makes it gives nightmare matchups for slower bigs and Chet's not a perfect example for that, but I think

it's a look that they can go to and abuse certain matchups and win minutes. And that's a huge advantage to have, just another curveball to throw at teams. It is. I do think it's problematic right now, though, that they don't have a viable big. Again, not to slander Jock Landale. Shout out St. Mary's. I love St. Mary's, but he is not a guy who you want playing meaningful minutes. And shangoon can unlock a lot for jalen green as a pick and roll ball handler as jalen continues to improve as a decision maker and playmaker and he's taking little strides there but he is still far from a high level playmaker so i'm not the highest on shangoon i made a video about him last year when everybody was calling him baby yokich and i expressed some of the concerns about configuring

your team long term around average efficiency scoring offensive big so a guy who is not overwhelmingly great there, who is also going to be mediocre defensively. Like it's not the most successful archetype overall, but he's still just a damn good basketball player and definitely a guy who I like long term and I think is going to be at least a fringe all-star kind of guy in this league for a long while. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball. basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed cracks. I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Talking about this Jalen Green, Linsanity run, Logan. And I think it opens up an interesting question because a lot of people, it seems are now revisiting that 2021 draft. And they're starting to wonder how Jalen stacks up to the rest of the top three, that being Cade Cunningham and Evan Mowgli. So out of those guys, who would

you most want to be building your team around right now? It's definitely Cade still for me. Cade was my guy draft night. I did like, I was a big Jalen Suggs guy too. I'm really proud of what Suggs has become in Orlando just as a, that was the, that was the. That was the biggest quality that stuck out about Suggs his tape was just he was a dog, man. That guy's motor was crazy. I may have been a little too high on his scoring skill set. And also, looking back at that draft class and comparing it to this year, I've been getting into the weeds. Dude, we were spoiled.

Like, I didn't realize it at the time. Even the draft last year, Amen, Asar, Kaysan, like Brandon Miller. We also had Victor Wembaugh. I was going to say Wembe. Like, spoiled. It's Scoot, of course. Yeah, man. I mean, not to just dog on this year's draft class, but looking back, like, a lot of those guys, I mean, maybe, maybe all of them would go number one in this year's class.

You know what I mean? Well, definitely all these top three. Dude, 2021, I thought was the strongest draft class and the strongest top three in a draft class since certainly 2018. 2018 was a strong year, but it was definitely one of the strongest in recent memory. I was so high on all three of these guys. It's absurd, man. In the depth.

I mean, when you look at the Trey Murphys, the Jalen Johnson's, Cam Thomas was my guy at the time. Maybe not the most impactful on winning, but he sure can't get a bucket. Herb Jones in the second round, Iowa in the second round. Really good draft class. Loaded, man. I liked Cade.

Cade was my guy. Then Cade is still my guy now. And the, you know, I think a lot of people, we do this thing in sports and sports thinking where we attribute wins and losses solely to the star player. It's the football quarterback concept, right? Tom Brady won all those Super Bowls because he's a cosmic entity and he's Tom Brady and it had nothing to do with the defense. It had nothing to do with Belichick. It had nothing to do with the circumstances. It was just Brady. So we can do this thing where, oh, Kate is losing because he's not a winner and he's stuck in

Detroit. The reality of the situation is, I think he's got a clueless coach. I don't think Monty Williams knows what he's doing. I think it's a horribly run organization. I think Detroit has been a hellhole for about 10 years now, even longer. Longer than that, it's been a hell hole for about 14. And the construction of the roster is just not up to par. I mean, this is a team that traded for Marvin Bagley and James Wiseman. They're just not up to par.

And honestly, Carson, I think in the long run, I think this is going to make Cade a much better player. And I think it has made Cade a better player. I mean, obviously he misses one year due to injury, but this has now been two full years of him grinding at it and going at it in just trying to get this team somewhere. But what I'm getting at is with all these touches, I mean, you're just going to get better, your feel, your touch, your process. Cade was already a really high-level playmaker and a good score with really high IQ.

But I think he's a much better just leader, man. And he already was. already had all these great qualities, but he's up to seven and a half assists this season. That's over, that's a one and a half increase from his rookie season. His three point shooting, he's up six percent. You know, 35 percent may not look great on the stat sheet, but coming from where he was 31 percent as a rookie and now he's hitting at a 35 percent clip, like that's a reliable shot. I also think he's a much better mid-range score, like in terms of how he gets to his spots. Like, defense is now have to respect Cade to the point where if you're running a high screen, and that's an easy action for

Cade that just generates easy offense, especially against big centers who drop, a high screen at the top of the key, Cade just gets to his spot. And the difference to me between these two other guys, the difference between Green and Cade. Cade doesn't have the athletic in the scoring ceiling that Jalen Green does. I think that's evident. But Cade has a control and an IQ of the game and just a process that I just trust more. As a lead playmaker, as a number one, that's what I think Cade is. He's a guy that can run your offense and make it great.

And again, the win-loss record from Detroit is not going to back that up. The offensive rating is not going to back that up. But again, I come back to coaching, organizational woes, and roster construction. That is not all on Cade's shoulders. We have to isolate him as a player. I think he is a great player, and he is going to be a perennial all-star, a leader of great offenses and I eventually think Cade is going to win. Isn't going to happen in Detroit?

Man, I don't know. Nobody's won in Detroit. You know? Can't have shit. You can't have shit in Detroit, man. It's sad. And I like Jaylen Green a lot. I like what he's been doing.

But like you said, we still got scars from earlier this year. He was not the most efficient player. At times earlier in this year, I was going, damn, man, what the hell is Jay Lynn doing? Like, this stretch has been really good about watching him operate. But it's still like decision making is still a problem. I have no issues with Cade. I trust Cade.

I trust Cade fully to make decisions for my offense. And Mowgli is an interesting case, because I think it's a stylistical, what do you want? Do you want the defensive anchor or do you want the offensive leader? Well, I'm going to take the guy who's going to lead me to great offense and we'll figure it out defensively. And Mowgli really is a defensive liability. I mean, excuse me, an offensive liability. His shot chart to me, Carson, is hilarious. You know, Evan Mowley is one of your favorite guys in the draft class.

he was my favorite. You said he's your favorite prospect ever until Chet came along, until Wembe came along. And Mowgli, I think, has been everything he was talented up to be defensively. But what you said was, you know, he has a higher offensive ceiling that he can reach. His shot looks smooth. And I don't know if it's an opportunity thing, you know, and that's what I wondered about Mowgli, if he should have gone somewhere that didn't have a ball-dominate guy,

where he could get a ton of offensive touches and be inefficient for a couple of years, but it would make him better in the long run. He hasn't had that opportunity, but he also hasn't really tried anything. His shot chart's hilarious to me, Carson. It's all into paint. Everything's into paint. He really can't do anything else. And then he's got like a left wing and a right wing three.

The Cavaliers are six points worse per 100 possessions when Mobley's on the floor. Like he is just an offensive liability. And I think there's a little bit of noise in that number two because he plays alongside Jared Allen. I think Mobley would be enhanced as a player. We've been talking about this for three years now. if they opened up the floor a little more and let Mobley be the guy in the middle, I think it would make him better, I think it would make the calves. I don't know if it would make the calves better,

but I think it would make the offense a little smoother and open up the floor. But I'm just not comfortable taking a guy who's this far away from being a good offensive piece. And I still think he can get there. Evan Mobley is still super young. But Cade is just so advanced in his IQ, his decision-making, his control of the game, his process, and I really think he's improved a ton as a score. He hasn't won yet, but I'm so confident in Cade becoming a real winner in this league and a real leader of great offenses.

Again, I don't know if it's going to be in Detroit, but it's going to be somewhere, man. I trust Cade, and I would be perfectly fine if he was my number one. Cade is my choice at this point. And on draft night, it was Evan Mowgli, and you mentioned that I said he was my favorite prospect. That was just over the few years that I'd been able to competently evaluate players. He was then surpassed by Chet and was then surpassed by Wembe, but I did love the archetype that Evan Mowbly was in. I absolutely loved it. I thought this is a hyperversatile defensive guy who was going to be at some point a defensive player of the year, and he's already been in those

conversations. He was in those conversations as a second year player. And then offensively, I thought this is a skilled playmaker for his size, a skilled ball handler, certainly a capable jump shirt with room to grow. And defensively has delivered, it really has been offensively where he's disappointed. I still think he's the safest pick to this question because he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can be the anchor on one side of the ball in a way that is extremely valuable. And he's a capable offensive player, right? He's good at doing the simple stuff. He's still a good passing big. He can do the simple finishing around the rim. But it is disappointing to me that this is still a very low volume three point shooter who has not developed

a consistent mid-range game whatsoever shoots 38% on hooks, 25% on turnarounds, like that lack of consistent touch shot making or perimeter shot making, it's disappointing from Mobley. So my answer is Cade because I think his ability to truly drive a full offense, to be an all-around offensive engine surpasses what you get from Jay. Green, both scoring and playmaking. He's a legitimately awesome passer, and I think we have consistently seen him in offensive hell make a bunch of great reads. They aren't always rewarded because of the labored shot making around him, but when you're talking about his touch on interior passes, feeding big men, he has phenomenal feel off the role there, very good driving

kick creator. And it's impressive to me that he has done what he has, considering how brutal things have been in Detroit. He is also a very legitimately good shooter. You mentioned 35% from deep. I think that's impressive considering context, 48% for midrange. I have been holding out hope and really just waiting for when Cade's jump shooting efficiency would start to reflect the caliber of jump shooter he is because he was excellent in college. He's always been excellent from the line. And he just, again, had these really rough shot diets over his first couple years in the league. and then a small sample size of second season that made those numbers a little bit ugly.

But there is truth to the fact that with Cade, things are always going to look harder than they are for Jalen Green. Situation sure plays a factor how clunky and how bogged down things can get around him in Detroit. But Cade doesn't have the athletic tools that Jalen does. He doesn't have that sort of crazy quick twitch fluidity either to where he can create six feet of separation for himself. on a step back. And so he is always going to be sort of methodically working his way,

navigating pick and roll, oftentimes getting to those mid-range looks, sometimes getting to those floater looks. Like he's not going to create a bunch of easy shots around the rim for himself, but because of his size, because of his build, I still think he can be a significantly more efficient score than he is at this stage. And his shot diet will get easier. but he's never going to have the sort of scoring effortlessness that Jalen Green has shown us

over these last couple weeks. At the same times, sometimes Jalen makes life look hard for himself as a score. It's like he can get by people at will, it feels like. But oftentimes he will take these really tough pull-up jumpers and they aren't always falling like they have been as of late. So I just think I'm getting a more complete basketball player with Cade. The poise as a lead playmaker, the size and shooting skill, pace to still be a very good score of the basketball.

And his defensive tools are legit impressive. This has been just a lost year for Detroit. But what we have seen him flash when he's engaged, his size has a very stout build. He's long. He's a really good lateral mover. He's great hands. I think you can have a real plus impact there. So the efficiency isn't good, but it isn't for Jalen either.

Like these have both been 54 to 55% true shooting guys all year, but one guy is a much better playmaker, one guy's defensive tools, I like more. And so that is why I would still prefer to build my team around Cade. But this scoring that we're seeing from Jalen right now, it is exciting. And I hope that this is what he looks like long term. I also don't just want to erase what we saw for 50 plus games because the last seven have been really amazing. The thrill and excitement of Marchmania is here in Draft King Sportsbook. One of America's top-rated Sportsbook apps is giving new customers a shot to turn five bucks into $150 instantly in bonus bets with any college basketball bet. And North Carolina listeners, don't forget,

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All right. Well, we talk about Jalen thriving. We talk about the rocket surging and being fun. Let's flip things on their head and let's get negative for a second. Who has been the most disappointing team in the league to you this season, Logan? I've got two picks. My first pick is going to be the Phoenix Suns. The Suns have been disappointing because obviously they made the Bradley Beal trade,

put all their chips in on this trio of KD. D-D Book and Beal. And so disappointing, one, because they've struggled with injuries, guys have not been available. That's been a big issue, too. What I think's been most disappointing is just seeing that these role players cannot pull their weight. And three things, actually. I'll get to the role players in a minute. I think the bigger thing is the fact that when you have three stars, the caliber of these guys, and the fact that you're still in the play in, you know, it's to me it's a fundamental roster construction issue in you know basketball theory like if you ask me too you know who would I rather have for the future and maybe this is stating obvious I'd rather

have the rockets future than the suns you know they're young they're constructed uh athletically and defensively and like the sons are all older bucket getters but what I'm getting at is just that is you know their stars don't really mesh together they don't really fit the nuggets are a perfect puzzle all of their pieces just seamlessly fit in to create this beautiful picture. And the suns are like, I don't know, they're all the same puzzle piece. Bradley BLD, D, Book, and KD all kind of do the same things. In an ideal world, your stars all fit together and they fit perfectly. So that's an issue with Phoenix, but the fact that they're in a play-in is just really disturbing.

When you have three guys this talented, and they're down there. This speaks to how tough the West is now, but if you had told me the Sons are going to be in the playing, I wouldn't have believed you. I would have told you that KD and Devin Booker were just too good, that there's no way. They have to be a top six seed. They have to be a lot to make the playoffs. I wouldn't have believed you. If you had told me the Sons, the Lakers, and the Warriors were here, I would have smacked you.

I would have told you you were stupid. That brings me to my final piece about the Sons is just the defense, man, and the role players. Big credit to, you know, Eric Gordon, Grayson Allen. I think they've done really good jobs as spot-up guys, is doing their jobs effectively. But Carson, I don't think this team knows how to play defense. And, you know, the numbers suggest that they're better than they are. I think they're 14th and 13th in defensive rating this season.

I don't know if some of these guys have brains, man. Like Drew Eubanks defending in space, man. Just choices on the court, man. They don't know what they're doing. And I expected more from Frank Vogel coaching this team up, honestly, with his championship pedigree and how long he's been around. I thought that the Sun's defensive process was going to be better. And so I've just been disappointed that they're this talented at the top, and they just can't seem

to figure it out. The other team that I would pick is the Golden State Warriors, and it's kind of the same reason. A ton of talent is a team that I thought was going to be a real championship contender this year, and they're stuck in the play-in. The bigger thing to me, too, dude, is I'm just kind of disappointed, and maybe I'm overblowing this, maybe I'm not. I'm just disappointed that Draymond can't screw his head on and get right, man. Like, just situational awareness. And I don't know if it's a, he feels he has to do it because this is his role as a vocal leader and a mentality thing.

But I'm okay with Draymond going at players, honestly, man. And I don't mean in, like, you know, putting guys in headlocks or going full UFC on them. I'm not down with that, but establishing a psychological game plan. Basketball is very psychological, and I am all for mind games and head games and getting into its heads and poking the bear. I'm all for that, but I don't like when you poke and prod at the refs and you go with them, and that's not the, the refs are the man. You know, the refs are going to screw you if they want because they can. They've got that power, and when you're sitting there jaw jacking at them, and I felt bad for Steph, you know, everybody saw the picture of Steph crying, had to tear in his eye. But Steph deliberately walked

over there. And I just wish Draymont could read the room a little bit better. Steph walked over there to tell, like, as a shield is to be, hey, Dre, like, get back, man. You know, like, not even as a, he, Steph came in there to be the mediator. And Dre just kept going and kept going and kept going and kept going. And it's like, stop. Stop, Dr. Yeah. Bob Fitzgerald on the broadcast was like, for like, a full 30 seconds before the situation concluded, He's got to be careful here. Like, you can see it coming, man.

You can't just go on a tirade at a ref for a minute plus. Yeah, you got to know your limit. And again, if the ref, I'm all for holding the refs accountable, too. I'm not saying you shouldn't ever. Me personally, I would never talk to a referee. I would just never talk. I would not address them. I would not speak to them.

I would just go Kauai mode and be silent. I would act like the refs don't exist. But I understand. I understand if the ref makes a bad call and you want to make yourself hurt, hey, man, you know, you're a player. You have a different perspective. And so I completely understand that. But there's a line to be towed.

And Draymond has just been in the league too damn long to be doing the same old shit. And that's where I'm just disappointed with him as, it's got to be frustrating for Steph. Man, that's his dog. That is Steph's dog, man. And you took the dog out to fight, man. need you, Dre. And this team needs you. They need you on the court, more importantly, because you help this team win games. They can't have you out, you know, kicked out of a game, man, you're hurting the team. And that's just been frustrating, along with the fact that,

yeah, man, just that they're in the play in, and that there's such a burden on stuff. I thought, I don't know, man, I thought that, uh, I thought with the CP trade, I thought that Clay would be better. I thought that, you know, when a dray injury happened, but I thought Wiggins would have returned to form. I've been impressed with the young guys. This isn't on the young guys at all, man. It's really on the old guys deteriorating, and I thought they would hold up a little better. So, yeah, man, there was no world in my eyes in which the sons or the Warriors were being the play in, and the Lakers. Damn, man, it's crazy. Yeah. But those are the teams I'd say I'm most disappointed with man. I cannot believe that they are not playoff locks. I think those are good choices.

Realistically, the Warriors are probably the choice for this question. We talked about them compared to Houston earlier, but I thought that they would be like a top four kind of team in the West because I legitimately really liked their offseason. I thought one of this team's biggest issues in recent years has been just the incompetence of the second unit. And if you bring in a steadying force like Chris Paul, who obviously has regressed a great deal even over the last couple years. But there are a few guys who I would rather have just run my bench unit. And then I thought the totality of what they did in the draft. I loved both pods and TJD as value picks.

Both of those have been fantastic picks. I liked moving for Sharge. And we've seen development from these young guys. I didn't expect Kaminga to take the leap that he has midseason. And so a lot of those boxes have been checked and they've done a good job. And yet it ultimately hasn't been nearly enough to account for the fact that at the top of this roster, we have seen regression from Clay, from Andrew Wiggins. We have not seen the bounce back that I anticipated we would get some of.

I wasn't looking for 20-22 playoffs, Andrew Wiggins. I was just looking for a better version than what he's been this year and what he was in the home stretch of last year when he was dealing with some personal stuff, so you thought that could have been a factor. Looney, who has played some vital roles over the last couple of playoff runs, kind of just slip in and slipping in the rotation. It really has been about that older generation, not playing up to their level, and ultimately, the lack of a high-end second offensive threat alongside Steph. And that's why this team could never have been legitimately viewed as a contender,

and that's what I kept on hoping they would make. make a move for at the deadline. And that could have changed the outlook for this team, I think. But it just became increasingly clear that that wasn't going to happen. And now it is just Steph trying to do a superhero routine every night. And ultimately, he is taking a little mini step back this year too. And so it's just really a collective struggle in Golden State compared to what I expected. The Wakers, I think, are another good choice.

even though I feel very differently about them headed into the playoffs than I do about the Warriors. They scare me a lot more because of the fact that they still have two top 10 players who can dominate you on the interior. And what we're seeing from Reeves and Dealow with secondary shot making, I'm much higher on the Lakers and we've seen the highs from them this year in a way that we haven't from Golden State. The Warriors have improved and like they sort of had a midseason turnaround. But we've seen the real highs with the Lakers against good team. they've played very well in the mid-season tournament, like they were playing awesome basketball.

But then we've also seen these stretches where they just don't care and things are very ugly. And they shouldn't be in this spot ultimately. Now, there were moves for them that didn't pan out. And I do think that I overestimated them, period point blank. I think that I like the Christian Wood move too much. I think that I underestimated the loss of like a Dennis Schrooter for point of attack defense.

But I also think effort has kept them down here. And then I do have the Bucks as an honorable mention. Just because I don't want to rag on a team that is the two seed. Obviously, that's a different level of regular season success than what we're talking about with the nine and 10 seed Lakers and Warriors. But I just thought that was a team that had as good a chance as anybody to win the title. And I thought Dane was going to be the perfect addition there. And ultimately, they just have had too many issues in terms of point of attack defense. They've been too old, too slow.

I'm terrified about Chris Middleton being healthy. Doc Rivers is not a good coach. Adrian Griffin was not a good coach. There is just a general set of concerns with that team that I didn't fully anticipate having before the year. I thought they were kind of going to be a juggernaut. And they're really good, but they're clearly a tier below Boston and Denver. My choice, though, ultimately is Phoenix, like you, Logan. I think all of these you can argue.

But they just had a good win versus Denver. and they were really doing a phenomenal job of moving the ball, very effective drive and kick game, and they were creating and then knocking down these open threes. Denver didn't have Jamal Murray. Yokic created a lot of open threes that his teammates missed, so like shot variance was a part of the outcome, but that's a good win nonetheless.

But overall this year, it just feels like everything has gone maybe 10 to 15% worse than you expected. Like, there's little that I can say I'm shocked about with the Suns. When they put together this big three, my thought was, okay, you have a tremendous amount of offensive skill here, but you also have some redundancies, right? You have not just three primarily on-ball creators who are all solid off-ball players as well, so I wasn't terrified about that. But the problem was, these are guys who are specifically pull-up jump shooters who really like to take these shots from the mid-range. they're not dynamic high volume three point shooters or rim pressurers and so as good as they may be there is a ceiling to that and sometimes you're going to enter these lulls that you struggle to explode out of

with those easy high value shots and that's been the reality for phoenix but it's been maybe a little bit more costly than i thought their 27th and restricted area makes 19th and 3s made like you can't be shocked by that i didn't think they were going to be the best offense in the league they've been ninth and then defensively they've been pretty average that's not surprising they had average personnel and not only do they have average personnel they were going to be starting three guys who basically have the star mentality offensively and so then you question how much will they buy in and grind defensively and they've had good stretches but overall they're a pretty uninspiring team defense i think the one thing that i did not anticipate that is probably

the difference maker is just how much they've crumbled in these late game scenarios and the lack of fear that they inspire in me because of that like i always have kind of had the feeling if you just have shot making of this caliber if you have katie and devon booker on the floor with bradley beale's a third option like you're going to scare me i'm not going to want to play that team but in fourth quarters this year it is legitimately shocking how much worse they've been than everybody else 30th in offensive rating 28th and defensive rating number one in turnover rate 29th in rebound rate so you think oh man it is valuable to have big time shot making tough shot makers for these closing stretches when things get gritty and mucked up you just need somebody who can get a bucket

and yet they've been worse than anybody else so yes this is still a team that is talented at the top but they just feel like they're all skill and they're too skilled in the same way that it's a bit redundant. They're not nearly physical enough. They're not nearly committed enough to defense. And those are all the things that I would have flagged as the issues coming into this year. It's just been a bit more pronounced across the board. And that kind of makes the difference where heading into the playoffs, I'm way more scared of Dallas. I would be more scared of the Lakers, man. They have a tougher path to get into the playoffs. But I think they are better equipped to upset somebody. Right now, it's just like if you match up Phoenix against another hyper skill-based team,

well, that team probably is a bit more versatile in terms of how they get their buckets, and they're probably going to defend at a higher level. And against a big physical defensively oriented team, well, maybe they can bully Phoenix. And maybe they, if they have a big athletic wing, can challenge KD and affect his shot diet. And so I'm just really uninspired by this team right now in a way that even though I didn't love their configuration coming into the year, I did not expect to be. Like, I definitely thought they were going to win a playoff series.

And now I would be surprised if they did. Yeah. The fourth quarter thing has been utterly ridiculous. Not only, the first thing has been weird is those, the big guys missing shots. That's been uncharacteristic. The turnovers are insane. Yeah. I've never seen a team.

And what's weird too, man, is there'll be these games where. I don't know. It's so strange. You would figure with three guys like this, with most basketball teams, there's a hierarchy, right? Yokic, Murray, MPJ. You know what I mean? Like there's a, there's an order. LeBron, D. Wade, Bosch, right? You know, there's a, there's a process. There's an order to it. Yeah. In a lot of these games, it's like these role players trying to do too much. Like, I can't remember who they were playing. This one game will not leave me. It was back-to-back possessions. And Eric Gordon is bringing the ball up the floor in transition.

And I'm screaming at my television. I am screaming at my TV going, get the ball to KD, get the ball to Dbook, push it, push it, get the ball to your star. And instead of pushing it in transition, instead of getting the ball up the floor, Gordon brings it up himself, crosses half court, immediately passes it to the other team. They score in transition. Next possession, exact same thing. For some reason, Eric Gordon is running the show late. Like, Eric, I don't, go sit in the corner, man. I don't want you touching the ball, bro.

Like, I don't, I don't understand the sons at all. At all. They were a confusing, confusing franchise, man. Like, they haven't gotten better at defense throughout the year. They have not gotten better in the clutch. They have not gotten better at order. And they haven't gotten better at protecting the ball. And I seriously wonder,

Carson, I seriously wonder if they should have kept Chris Paul. And I don't mean that in the sense that, I don't know if you do that trade every day just because Beale is so much the better player, but I'll be damned if Chris Paul can't protect the rock and make good decisions at his old age. You know, he may not be the healthiest, he may not be the most skilled anymore. He may not be, he's not what he wants. He has one shot in his bag. It's still pretty funny, man, watching him in Golden State.

If it's from the elbow or if it's from the low block, man, He has got a fading jump shot on both sides of the paint, and that's it. That's all he's got. But he can still run an offense and make good decisions and control the game. And again, it may not be efficient. He's not a score anymore. But I don't know if they'd – he'd be able to at least feed D.Book and feed KD and get them to rock and manage the game a little bit better.

And there really is no – I like D.Book as a point guard, but again, man, there's not a – there's not a hierarchy to it. team. There's not an effort to get these guys the ball or to run through them. And I don't, I don't really understand it late game scenarios, man. And I would be surprised. I think Phoenix is bound to get bounced in the first round by really whoever they play, man. If they drew Minnesota, if they drew OKC, I don't really see the Suns winning a playoff series. It'd be tough to pick them right now. Yeah. I do think that they were absolutely. right to trade Chris Paul because I think what we saw in last year's playoffs showed that when we're talking about the lack of variety in terms of shot diet, I mean, nobody is more guilty of

that than Chris Paul. It's literally as you said, like nobody is going to pressure the rim less. Bradley Beale does add a dimension of quickness of dynamism. I mean, he's more effective attacking the rim than either of these other two stars who we're talking about. And I think that book has done a really good job as a lead playmaker. I think this sort of like collective playmaking from this big three has been good enough. Chris Paul ultimately just is not the caliber of basketball player that a Bradley Beal is at this stage. And I think some people have taken this really disappointing season from Phoenix and been like, this is the death of big threes because we've seen, okay, this big three didn't work and the big three in Brooklyn didn't work. And there are various examples in recent

in memory. I don't think you can compare like what the Bulls did with Damar, Levine, and Vooch, but whatever, just this philosophy of we're going to pool in all our resources on three guys, ultimately leaves you deficient in some other areas. And I'm not willing to go there. Now, I do think that you can absolutely construct bad and misfit big threes. You can construct redundant big threes and you can construct big threes that have injury concerns to me. that's the biggest thing with Brooklyn, right? Is that those three guys couldn't stay healthy and their personalities didn't mesh.

You should not force a big three. At the same time, I can't really be critical of how Phoenix has gone about their team building because I really think this was a sinking ship, man. This was a team that their window was 2021 and 22, when Chris Paul was still playing at a legitimate star level. And yeah, they had these awesome role players

but people seem to just forget how thoroughly mediocre Phoenix was when they traded for Kevin Durant last year. And it's just like, oh my God, they gave up Macau Bridges and Cam Johnson. And those are really promising young players. Those are real quality wings. Neither of them I would consider legitimate stars. Neither of them I would want to be honestly like the top two player on a really good team. I think Macau is like a perfect number three, but you've seen his offensive limitations in a more high volume role in Brooklyn this year.

It was a sinking ship. And then to parlay this fading Chris Paul into Bradley Beal, like I didn't expect them to get that sort of value back. So then, of course, you're building on the margins because you have three massive contracts, but if it was Chris Paul or Bradley Beal, it was going to be a massive third contract either way. and you had a flawed team configuration because you started at a talent deficit. That's the thing.

Like, if they hadn't traded for Kevin Durant to begin with, Phoenix would not be better than they are right now. They would be worse because Chris Paul just has regressed too much. And if they hadn't traded for Bradley Beale, then they weren't going to move Chris Paul to a team that was willing to take on that contract and also had two great 3&D players to trade to them. Like, that's just not how team building was. works. So no, I don't like how things have ended up for Phoenix, but I didn't like how things were

headed. And I think sometimes people sort of rewrite that history because they're just like, why would you put these three together? And it's not perfect, but they didn't have perfect options. That's really fair. And I do think they're redundant and I do think they're injury prone. But I think another thing that's important to emphasize here is that these things take time. I thought the Rudy Gobert trade was the worst in NBA history. It turns out they needed a year to figure it out. And maybe that's the situation too with Phoenix. Maybe they just need time to mesh.

And the clock is ticking. You're right, man. We're going to have to start throwing stuff off the ship, man, because we're going to have to lose some weight. Because they've got to stay afloat. But, you know, KD may regress a little bit. You may regress a little bit. but you've got a year of experience with this unit.

You've figured out what role players work, and ultimately it's another year where you can add more resources and fill out this rotation. And you still got the big three. Again, they may fade a little bit, but it's important that this offseason that they go out and they get guys in the draft that can play immediately. The beauty is, well, I don't think this is a very top-heavy draft

where there's a lot of guys that are maybe superstars. I do think this is a deep draft in the sense that I think there's a lot of guys that are going to go late in the first round, early in the second round, they're going to be able to play immediately. That kid from UNC, Baycott, I think Baycott would start day one for the Sons, and I think he would be a better center for him. He has his limitations, but that's an example of a player, I would say, is like they need, and he's not a great athlete either, but again, the Sons' options aren't perfect. They're still going to be scrapping on the margins in free agency, in the draft. I'm not ready to sell all my stock. I'm not ready to sell all my stock.

I think next offseason they could make moves that make them more of a contender. And a year of experience with this big three is really helpful. The ship is going down, man. But I don't think it's not in the, it's not all the way down yet, man. There's an opportunity. It's not with the Titanic yet. The problem is, bro, you're talking about the draft. I mean, the sons hardly have a draft pick through 2030, bro.

Even second. Even seconds. They do not have a single second round pick through 2030. That's so tough. Their first rounders, 2025, 27, and 29 all go to Brooklyn. And then 24, 26, 28, 2030. They are always going to get the least favorable out of a combination of teams who have been involved.

So whether it's their own pick or whether it's somebody else's, like, that's basically a guarantee to be picking in the 20s. Yeah. And you only have. half of your first round picks over the next seven years, man. It's not a pretty outlook. But at the end of the day, they went for it, Logan. They went for it.

And in life, that's half the battle. I'm not signing their funeral papers, but the Phoenix Suns aren't winning the title this year. I can guarantee you that. And their path to getting significantly better next year is not an easy one. And Kevin Durant is 35 years old. So that's just kind of. of the reality for them. All right, Logan, a little bit higher up in the standings out west.

We have a very, very interesting race that has been close for some time, but now we're in crunch time and it is still very close. There is a half game separating Denver from both Minnesota and OKC. Who do you think ends up grabbing that one seed out west in how much does that matter? I don't really think it matters at all. I think it matters how the play in goes more than anything else. You just don't want to draw L.A. Actually, that's it. It's kind of all about avoiding the Lakers, I think, in the first round. Does that even matter for Denver? I think it matters a little bit. That's going to be a dog fight.

I mean, I think Denver Moes... Yeah, dogfight a pit bull versus a chihuahua, bro. Come on now. I thought you were out on the Lakers. You were just saying you were out on the Lakers, then you're in on the Lakers. You're telling me that... They pulled me back in. Look, I like the Lakers. You're telling me that's not going to be a good series. I think a decent series. Logan, here's what I think LA Denver goes. Damn, I was going to say, I mean, five is not even impressive.

Yeah, I think it goes five too. Woo. Oh my God. Denver should be shaking in their boots. I think it'll be funny if that's what happens because I legitimately would be scared by the Lakers in some matchups. And I feel like I've kind of been talking them up as of late. And if they draw Denver, like, it's just not going to matter.

They're going to get squashed. And then it's going to be. Ha, hi, everybody was overhyping the Lakers again. And there will be really nothing solid to disprove that because, yeah, I mean, Denver would trounce them. I think if you're OKC, you want to avoid the Lakers. I think if you're Minnesota, you would certainly rather play a Phoenix than the Lakers. Yeah. If you're Denver, I think you want the one seed so you can have home court advantage throughout the West.

And you're not too worried about who you draw, no matter what, first round. Yeah. I think I probably agree with that. I'm basically any other team that's not Denver because I think Denver just wins out, but any other team should be trying to avoid them. And honestly, every other team out of the plan, I think, is a

misnomer. They don't matter. Kings, easy dove. Easy dub for anybody. Warriors, fighting chance. If Steph Curry goes Supernova, I'll give them a, you know, I'd give them a chance, but I think they're probably an easy dove. And then Phoenix, I really, like, I have no. I have no expectation of Phoenix doing anything in the playoffs.

So yeah, I mean, for all these high seeds, yeah, save Denver, it's kind of all about dodging that massive LeBron-shaped bullet, man. It's coming at you. I do think that's, I think it goes five or six, and that's sad because like you said, man, everybody, L.A. is going to be the NBA punching bag. And I guess for L.A., it's all about Dodge and Denver. You know, I heard Nick Wright's take on, you know, LA should want Denver in the first round and like I think it makes sense but it's like do you really

want to get bounced in the first round like I'm trying to I my theory on it is I would want to avoid Denver until the later rounds because I'm hoping at that point they've got a player dinged up they're tired you know that's why I'm I would be I would want to see them in the Western Conference finals somebody else beats them which is unlikely but that's what I'm saying exactly you got two other opportunities where they can tire them out, a player gets hurt, knock on wood, I don't want to see that happen, or three, where another team could try to balance them. So I think it all centers around L.A. and Denver. And I know people are tired of, I've seen the comments. I've seen people on social media everywhere, every basketball site that talks about L.A.

Oh man, we're always hyping up the Lakers. We're always hyping up the Lakers. They got LeBron and A.D., man, they got a chance. Like, we can get mad that they take their foot off the gas in the regular season and that maybe people overhype them. They're still one of the scariest teams out west. If you wanted me to do my ranking right now, it would probably go, Denver? Damn, you know who's number two? Probably L.A. and then probably Dallas or Dallas and then L.A. They're in my top three borderline. So they're a really scary freaking team, man. As much as people get tired of them, you know, media talking about the Lakers, they're a scary team. And I wouldn't say they're a legitimate contender because I think Denver's that much better, but they're certainly in that tier two of contenders.

They're a flawed basketball team, but they are legitimately a scary basketball team. I'm with you on that. I just don't think Denver is, like, worried about who they draw. I think Denver is confident that they can take care of business against anybody. And I do think they're going to wrap up the one seed. If they want it, if they dial in, they have the 23rd remaining strength of schedule in terms of difficulty, and they do have that half game edge, so it's pretty easy down the stretch. They have a couple big head-to-head games against Minnesota,

but the dialed-in nuggets are just a machine, and I think that they could march to the one seed. OKC, much tougher remaining strength of schedule, six toughest. They have to play Boston, Milwaukee, New York, Dallas, Phoenix, Sacramento. That's just over these last 10 games. Minnesota is in the middle. So I think number one would be a skis.

scary spot for okay c or minnesota because you could draw the lakers number three is also kind of scary because we don't have the seating finalized but if i had to guess who ends up in that six seat it would probably be dallas they're only a half game up on phoenix but they've just been playing better basketball as of late and so if i were a betting man i would bet that they hold on to that spot and i wouldn't want to draw dallas in the first round but if i could sit in that two seed and then I'm drawing like either Phoenix or Sacramento, that's where I would like to live. I don't know that anybody has that sort of aim bot to where they can just end in the two seed, but I think Denver probably wraps up the one seat and I think they're happy with the fact that that gives them

one of the bigger home court advantages in basketball throughout the Western Conference playoffs. All right. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you'll say it. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the Fire. forth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people.

I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because, of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Real quick, Logan, before we get out of here, we've been talking NBA as we do. But really, there was only a couple games yesterday.

And we are, of course, in the heart of March now. And we did have March Madness action resume. So real quick, I just want to get your thoughts on this take that circulated recently, first out of the mouth of Mike Greenberg, which is that Yukon could beat NBA teams. they are the caliber of an NBA team. He even said that they would be a play-in team. How do you feel when people make those comments? Of course, this is kind of wild to say like a play-in team, but we've always heard the, oh my God, could Alabama beat the Owen 16 Browns? How do you feel about those takes in general? You know, I hated that take in the beginning, the Hugh Jackson and the Bama team.

Hugh Jackson was throwing games. You know, maybe Bama might have been able to beat him because Hugh just pulls a... Deshawn Kaiser disrespect, how dare you? NFT creator legend Deshawn Kaiser. Yeah, maybe the Browns just purposely lose. This one's the stupidest to me. Look, bro, I don't know how to boil it down any simpler than this.

Yukon has, what, two to three NBA players? Yeah. Every basketball team. team and the NBA has 15 NBA players, 13 that suit up. Yeah, good point. Phenomenal point. Is that it? I mean, I really don't, yeah, I don't really know if I have anything else to play a team is egregious. I mean, I would worry about UConn's winning a game. Like, hear me out. You know, UConn's got good size. They've got good players. Like Klingin is going to the league. I think Klingin's going to be really good. But,

bro, there's levels to this, man. There's a reason that we have college and NBA. Again, Yukon maybe has three NBA players. Every roster has 13. Come on, brother. I don't, I don't, every year when there's a dominant college program or somebody says this, and I think it's dumber and dumber every year. A playing team is crazy, man.

You think they're going to beat the Phoenix Suns? Yeah, the Lakers. Yeah, sure, man. Let's put LeBron and AD versus a college team. Just get out of here, man. get out of here yeah it's hilarious i don't know why this is consistently a talking point like it does just require some very simple thinking you can talk about oh man they play so well together they're so well cut coach they run some great sets if you are just at an overwhelming talent deficit

that doesn't really matter and that is the reality for any college basketball team against any NBA team. Like, just as a reference point, obviously last year's Yukon team sent three dudes to the league. Klingin was on that team, but he was a backup. And you have Jordan Hawkins, who was like a legit quality rookie. You have Andre Jackson, who was a fringe rotation guy, and you have Sonogo, who doesn't play. He's really a G-League guy. You look at the champion year before that, Kansas, which was a stronger team throughout the regular season, number one seed, sent three guys to the league. O-Tai Abaji, who scored eight points per game next year for a struggling jazz team. Christian Brown, who had a couple really nice moments in the finals,

but averaged three points per game in the playoffs, and Jalen Wilson, who is now a rookie this year, and he's a two-way player. And keep in mind, these guys are developing between the end of their college season and the start of their rookie season and then throughout their rookie season. So even this isn't a perfect comparison. These guys as rookies are better than they are as college players. But even if you look at the best college basketball team of the last 15 years, I would see, I would say, which is 2012 Kentucky. That team went 38 and 2, won the national championship game. They produced one NBA starter.

They produced the top two picks in the draft with MKG, but obviously MKG sucked. The other NBA players are Terrence Jones, Duran Lamb, Jeff Teague's brother, Darius Miller, and Kyle Wilcher. Like, this is just an absolutely ridiculous conversation. You couldn't even give Marquise the shout. you had to hit him with the brother. Yeah, because he's Jeff Teague's brother, bro. That's his legacy.

That's who he is. That's his NBA reputation. And you compare that, like, to the Detroit Pistons. Think about how dominant Kate Cunningham was in college basketball, and then he was the number one pick. Think about what a problem Jayon Ivy was at Purdue to then be a top five pick. Jalen Duren, lottery pick, a Tsar Thompson, fifth pick this year. Like, they are just collect.

your elite talents and compiling them. And this is the worst team that you can have. And all of these guys are more physically mature, more intellectually mature, all around a good bit better than they were in college. This should really never be a talking point. Like there is no comparison between any college basketball team and any NBA team. And that's it. And we can end the conversation there forever.

I just want to go on a record. Shout out of Domless. So no go. I think he should be in the league, man. I think that guy's a rotational big. Shout out to him. Yeah. That would be great to watch him play against the Lakers and see how he matches up with AD as a playing team. That would be the 9-10 matchup, Yukon versus Lakers. Please shelve these takes for all eternity. And you know what, Logan, while we're at bad takes, we were on with Jason last week and he really got me fired up on the idea of reacting to bad takes. Maybe I shouldn't acknowledge these things. Maybe it's not good for my blood pressure, but I'm a young man.

I think I've got a little give in that department still. This Caleb Williams stuff as of late, dude. What about it? First of all, I think 100% it is lame and stupid to be that preoccupied and that opinionated about what other people are doing in terms of personal choices with their body or their attire or whatever. Who cares, man? What difference does it make?

I think that's ridiculous. I think that's stupid. But separate of that. separate of that the amount of takes that that I have seen that are negative towards Caleb Williams that have nothing to do with this football acumen I mean it is incredibly hard to find a legitimate football criticism of Caleb Williams like guys just think about how your takes are gonna age okay put the culture war aside for a second okay unless you're Clay Travis like if you want to actually have your sports opinions

hurt out this is gonna be a terrible take Like Caleb Williams is gonna be really good and Jack Mac at Barstool will have said I'm not taking him number one Because he paints his nails Okay dude he's gonna be really good and then everyone's just gonna look at you and be like what? What has that ever been the basis on which we judge players? You know what Logan? Russ has always dressed too effeminately for me So it's Pam Newton these fashion guys I don't want anything to do with them. I don't like what they're doing our society don't want them on my team. All right, miss out on your league MVP's. Great way to evaluate players. It's just stupid and you guys are going to look stupid and I'm sorry for you because of that. And honestly,

I think it speaks more to them than it does actually about Caleb or Cam or are you not comfortable in your own skin. These guys are. You know what I mean? Like, why are you so critical of somebody else? What I think you forget, Carson, is that the internet is full of haters and hate. And I haven't I think that people hate on Caleb because he's really good and he's going to be really successful. And they want to pray on somebody's downfall. And I don't understand it, man. I think Caleb's a stud. And I couldn't care less if Caleb grew his hair out.

If he, I don't know, man, if he put on makeup, I don't care, man. It's Caleb. He's the best quarterback in the draft. Who cares what he does? It's stupid, man. It really is stupid. it's like guys players have personalities they have individual preferences in how they want to represent themselves it doesn't have a bearing on how good they are at their sport period point blank end of

stories so anyways that is nothing to do with the NBA but it was on my mind we were talking about bad takes that have been circulating and i wanted to get that off my chest that's going to do it for us here today guys hope you enjoyed this one if you did as always there's plenty more Sesh content on our YouTube page. You can find all of our full shows and the video essays that we do on the NBA. You can also listen to the show across audio platforms. If you want to see what we are doing on social, lots of trivia there and also some clips from the show. We are on TikTok and Instagram at NerdSesh and Twitter at Nerd underscore Sesh. You can join our Discord if you want a chance to speak to the one and only Matthew Spawn Hour. That's right, our nemesis of sorts, I guess,

at this point, but really I love the guy. And he's in our Discord. He may be quiet, but he's always lurking. And you can also check out our merch if you want Logan. As always is a nice little human billboard for the hat. We've got shirts, we got hoodies. All of that is at thevolume.com. So with that, as always, appreciate you guys.

Hope you enjoyed. I've been Carson Braver. I've been Logan, Camden. And this was NerdSash. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

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84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

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